tzupi
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Posts posted by tzupi
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As many others here have said, this drama is indeed exceptional. I got into it because of Chen Kun's performance, which, after 25 episodes (that's where I'm after starting watching it last week) is still amazing to watch. The main actress is also excellent and I find the character she plays very compelling.
The story might be slow for some in the beginning. Personally, I did not mind it at all because everything is so gorgeous to watch and the acting is very good.
Some people have complained that the plot is too linear, because one can identify the arcs easily. I liked this because there is so much to pay attention in the double meaning dialogue, that were the plot more convoluted, it would have been very difficult to watch.
https://decider.com/2018/10/08/the-rise-of-phoenixes-on-netflix-stream-it-or-skip-it/
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About the time jump: there had to be repercussions for what EC did. He willingly disobeyed an order to return to America and then he engaged in fights with some Japanese people, causing an incident that put in jeopardy the relationship between America and Japan. The incident also ended with an American soldier being dead. @bedifferent already mentioned the shooting at the building and some of the things I've mentioned.
Also at the martial court, he never says that he was with his wife because probably he would have added a new charge, forging documents. So without the wife explanation, there is not much that he could say in his defence.
Only Kyle's explanation lowered his sentence.
2 hours ago, burningpotato said:Because she's a perfect sparkly unicorn who can do no wrong, and all the boys love her. In other words, tv heroine.
You seem to forget that she has a skill that is very necessary for the RA: she is very good at shooting people. Not many are, especially the young cadets.
So she is not a unicorn, on the contrary, we were told and we could see many times that she is a very good snipper. So the story makes sense.
If you and @linygirl1 are wondering why the king wanted her rescued, there are some reasons. First, she is an asset of the RA and the king does things for RA as the RAs does for the king. Second, the king admired AS's grandfather and probably felt guilty about what happened to his grandfather: recall that he dies because the king gave a lot of power to LWI. Third, when people are fighting about something together, they tend to have each other backs.
7 hours ago, mistergenie said:. But for me (and maybe some other fans like me) who was/were watching for the personal element/facet of these fictional characters, it was quite jarring and disappointing.
What can I say? the political and the social are personal and vice versa. Would it make more sense to send EC to America and have him coming back right away? Only if EC was not a soldier and lived in a very fictional Korean drama universe. Since he lives in a semi-fictional one, one that follows up to a point history, he had to pay for his decisions.
Moreover, from the point of view of the story, the separation makes sense: EC took a very hard decision for AS; if there were no repercussions for his decisions, then he should have taken it long ago.
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5 hours ago, mistergenie said:
THIS^^^. Yes, there is a sense of immense sadness and heartbreak but then again it is quite great to see the writer being consistent with AS' character. I don't deny that I am among those fans having their own futile/wishful hopes for AS to have a happy future with Eugene but I also cannot overlook the amazing character integrity of Ae Shin when it comes to her principles - words spoken by characters are not meaningless and empty - her desire to be a flame is not simply empty talk but is accompanied by action.
I'm also a fan who wants the two together. I also prefer things to get there in a natural way, not only because of fan-service.
The actions of the characters make sense for now and I'm very happy with that. It would not make sense for AS to throw away her training as a sniper just to be together with a man. And it does not make sense for EC to happily accept to do Lord Go's bidding or to help AS's in her dangerous fight: he did not sign for this when he accepted to come to Joseon. As a soldier and strategist, he sees the fight as pointless, probably he is kind of opposed to this civilian rebellion--it is not as well organized and ordered as an army. As a lover, he worries because she takes up more and more dangerous missions--taking her away will be the best for him, but not for her.It is interesting that in the last episodes we mostly hear his own thoughts, but it is not clear that we should be so depressed about his remarks. He was and still is a reluctant hero, so it is normal for him to be pessimistic about what's happening.
Because of this, I do not worry yet. Now the issue seems to me to be who will manage to change the other's point of view. Or maybe they will reach a compromise: one seems to be too much emotion, and the other one too much intellect. By not entrusting the protection of AS to Eugene, Lord Go made it clear that they need to find a way to live with their choices.
There is also another aspect: even if this drama has a sad ending (which I do not think it will have), as long as it remains well written, we can always recommend it to other people and the discussion about it will continue.
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6 hours ago, KDramaLogic said:
But did AS really have to impose EC with the possibility of using him for her cause in fighting for Joseon independence assuming that EC would simply follow through without question and NOT inquiring about EC's compromised position as both a U.S. soldier and a Joseon person in the midst of the Japanese annexation of Korea, especially once/if the U.S. decides to step back from all this Korea/Japan conflict and leave Korea? Mind you, I would NOT have to emphasize this matter if AS did ask EC about his thoughts regarding overall stance in Joseon, and that EC, after considerable deliberation, declares that none of his safety/immunity as a U.S. soldier/citizen matters to him more than being with and supporting AS in her fight for her safety, future, happiness, and fight for Joseon independence.
It would have been very disappointing if AS had such a discussion with Eugene. AS and Eugene have reached a level of intimacy where this kind of discussion is not necessary. Did he not say to her that he will follow her? What would be the purpose of a discussion about Eugene's feelings for Joseon? Half of the show was already focused on this aspect, and I think it was made clear that he reached kind of a peace with Joseon: he is reluctantly helping them. and he agrees to get more and more involved if it is about the safety of AS and the potter. and this was even before the things turned so wrong as in the last episodes.
Yesterday many people accused Lord Go of being cruel because he showed the right path to Eugene: kill the Japanese colonel. The old man entrusted him with a dangerous mission: for a father that lost two sons in the fight for freedom, what he begs Eugene to do was not cruel. Is a doctor who cause you suffering, while trying to make you healthy cruel?
Now you are thinking that it is not only cruel but also futile. Futile how? The colonel is a danger for so many, he is unnecessarily cruel...and that's when the term 'cruel' is used correctly. Why is it futile to get rid of a war criminal?
As @ces8 rightly remarked it is difficult to understand what it means to be in a revolution. In my view, in the last episodes, Eugene got further and further away from AS. If he does not get more involved, his chances of ending up with AS will become smaller and smaller. He will become a futile character because the real fight has started and he is not in the middle of it.
So instead of being unhappy about the fact he has dangerous things to do, we should be happy when he gets something to do.
People who want a strong female character should also rejoice. It is good that AS did not lose track of her priorities.
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2 hours ago, mistymorning said:
This+a. Lord Go is basically saying he knows he is ruining Eugene. Exactly like little Eugene said, a black bird can ruin the whole sky.
The task Lord Go gave Eugene, killing the head of Japanese military as an American means there is really small wriggle room Eugene can have. Higher chance of serious consequence if Eugene is found out as a killer. So no happy ever after with Aeshin, and looks like Lord Go doesn't mind that either.
Yes, but Lord Go does not seem to be a cruel person. This is why I do not think he did it with the intention of ruining Eugene. And it is not clear to me that he necessarily wanted to keep Eugene and AS apart. But one thing that probably he does not want is for AS to leave the country.
What he requested from Eugene was to sacrifice something for the country (not only for some Joseon people and something important).
But I do not necessarily see this as a bad thing, for if Eugene really kills Mori, there would be no turning back for Eugene, he would become a Joseon person. If that happens, he would have bigger chances to end with AS. Because I do not see her going with him to the States.
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38 minutes ago, charray said:
I did not quite understand what Lord Go mean when he said that he is the black bird over Eugene. Is he implying that Eugene has to accept his decision since he is the elder here being Ae Shin’s grandpa, in a way acknowledging Ae Shin’s relationship with Eugene?
Yes, something along these lines.
First, by using the black bird comparison, Lord Go acknowledges that he remembers Eugene. And also that he was impressed with Eugene's wisdom.
Second, I think Lord Go tries to force Eugene to make a decision about his nationality.
Eugene was always a character that hid behind his American nationality. He uses it as a cover, but also as an excuse. We saw him coming a long way from the first episodes where he did not want to have anything to do with Joseon, but he is still clinging to his American nationality. He helps Joseon people, not the country. (he accepted his instructor job for protecting AS and the potter).
So I think Lord Go tries to push him even more out of his comfort zone and make him be clearer on what side he is fighting.
EC is in the safest position now, for him there is always a possibility of leaving and we saw AS's scenes in America were very dreamy, it is like a paradise. It is in a way like the blue sky.
By requesting to kill Mori, lord Go made it difficult for Eugene to have the safe alternative (I also think this safe alternative is more wishful thinking, for America was never so nice for Eugene as AS was dreaming).
If Eugene kills Mori, I do not know if he can return to being an American soldier. So killing Mori, it is, in my opinion, giving up on being an American soldier.
This is my interpretation, kind of very convoluted. Of course, there is also the easy interpretation: Lord Go is the black bird because he does not want to see Eugene with AS.
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32 minutes ago, anipanch said:
I'm not insisting that EC will fail in protecting AS, but rather what I want to say is the fact that yes he is very logical and works things out very well, but most of the time it is his American status that gives him a big advantage and I'm not sure until when it will help him out, considering the fact that the situation is getting chaotic every day. That aside, he is more about sacrificing himself, like we saw what he did when AS shoot the Japanese soldier. It will get harder for him, since US is pretty much moving out from Joseon and losing their influence. And I can't say anything about DM either, so far we haven't seen what he achieved by cutting her hair, maybe their's still something to it. EIther way, Grandfather saw something in his move that made him worthy of asking to protect AS and I hope the writer won't mess it up and make it hard to understand what she is trying to achieve with DM's character.
I agree with you. Lord Go made a comparison between entering through the front door and jumping the wall. DM's methods to protect AS would be more devious than Eugene's and the grandfather deemed them more efficient. It is a chaotic time and Eugene's style is not well suited for this time.
Moreover, I think Lord Go also picked on the fact that DM has better access to information than Eugene. And what happens afterwards proves him right: while Eugene plays with the Russian doll at the Legation, DM is already going to Jemulpo, although his yakuza boss probably stopped him. Without information, Eugene cannot do much.
I also found it interesting that while DM was paid, Eugene was not. I think this makes Lord Go's decision ambiguous. Probably he started to trust Eugene in the end. It is also interesting that Lord Go mentioned the black bird story, so maybe in a certain way, he made peace with the fact that AS has fallen in love with Eugene.
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56 minutes ago, bedifferent said:
Questions: Ae Shin was on her way to the pharmacy. DM asked where she was going with no reply back from AS.
Where does DM think she is going? And does the reason/destination make any real difference to him?
Thoughts guys?
I do not know. But the whole discussion between the two is quite strange.
First, he says that he will give her one last chance. Then he tells us not to get involved more. Then he cut her hair.
I do not understand what this last chance is. At some moments, what he says to her sounds similar to what he said to the guy who later shot him (when he was curious why that guy would risk his life for defending the country).
Moreover, do they talk loud enough to be heard by the bystanders?!
On another topic: I am wondering whether the recruits would create problems for Eugene. He is the guarantor of one of them, and they seem to be foolish enough to try to kill LWI. And Eugene appears to make sometimes mistakes: like the blunder with the bullets. I think he realized that they are up to something, probably he guesses what, but sometimes he forgets that he has to act on the information he has. I'm afraid that now focused as he is on the new Japanese commander, he is more prone to making mistakes.
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3 hours ago, ladyme said:
Well, that is one way to look at things..
Just curious, if you had really big problem (not health related problem like chemotherapy) and someone cut your hair and say that is done for your sake and in his opinion good for you, and cut it in front of a lot of people..
Would you be angry or thank him ?
I'm really curious.. because you had a very dissimilar way of think compare to me.
For me, whether it's work or not if something done to me without my consent (not me as a child of course, i mean me as adult) i would not accept it.
I hope you are not offended, this is purely my curiosity..
I do not get your case, but if you ask if somebody cuts my hair without my consent: it depends. Is the hair something that I came to loathe because it symbolizes my inferior status, my submission to somebody else, whom I cannot directly disobey because we are family-related? Did the person do it with good intentions? If yes in both cases, then the cutting of such a symbol of my inferior status, even by another person, cannot be but a blessing in disguise.
2 hours ago, bedifferent said:Is DM all about reality, survival and not tradition?
I like your question. I find DM to be a very interesting character right now, in a way in which he was not at the beginning of the story. There are some important changes that happen to him in the last episodes: now he understands that money is a fickle mistress, that his people are not safe, but he also understands that he can make choices because he is not like his parents. The danger with him is precisely that he is so free of any attachments to any tradition--he is an outsider. Can he make the right choices?
What happened in the last episode is strange, and in a way negates his growth. But given the changes from the last episodes, like you, I'm also wondering if there is more there.
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2 hours ago, miracle23 said:
I don't know if any of you have watched the princess man drama. A noble woman cutting off her hair symbolises also cutting her relationship with her parents. Our Korean Soompier can help me verify with this please. So far, this is my understanding. After the telegram intel, I believe the most plausible reason for DM's action could be this. He knows WI is trying to solve the puzzle of AS and the identity of her parents. His action was shocking, yes. He also knows she might kill him for it. He did say he doesn't even care if she becomes his enemy. This is the second time he asks for her to basically kill him if she doesn't agree with whatever he did. He doesn't need her understanding. He will just protect her as he sees fit. That is just his personality. EC and HS are more finesse in their behaviour towards AS. But not DM. Ok I will continue later. I would like to watch ep 19 first before I can deliberate more on DM's action as I feel there is more to it than meets the eye, based on my understanding of the cutting hair thingy. Of course DM is not a bad guy here, he is one of the good guys, ruthlessness notwithstanding. He is just a little brute, a grumpy member of the team who would disagree at everything but eventually follow through with the plan. Just like those grumpy brute but softie dwarf of the LOTR
. Don't be too serious ladies. Everything is done for a reason. Give him the benefit of a doubt. Wait for next week for more explanation.
Cheers!
I do not know about that drama, but I found in a book that indeed cutting the hair symbolizes cutting the ties with one's parents. The idea seems to be that one should value's one body since the body pertains not to him or her, but to his or her parents (it is part of the Confucianism ideal). This is why there was opposition to cutting one's hair. It seems that in 1920 a woman, a woman rights activist, cut her hair in protest. (for more see Eclipsed Cinema: The Film Culture of Colonial Korea, p. 196: I read from it on Google)
If this is what the scriptwriter goes for, I think it might be that DM's message for AS is to cut her ties with her upbringing values and embrace more encompassing values. It might be something akin to Eugene's discussion with her about the reasons for which she fights.
So until now, there are three possible explanations for DM's actions:
1. he was possessive
2. he wanted to help her by giving her a reason to stay put.
3. he liberated her of customs and encouraged her to fight for more than the nobler's ideals.
But yes, until next week, it would not be clear what just happened, so it would be helpful if we get more reasons for why somebody would cut one's hair.
I find it strange if AS were to be upset about her hair cut since for women, long hair is part of what the society expects of some women: pretty with long hair, taking seriously their feminine role. But she broke with most of the social customs when she started her love affair with Eugene. Having her haircut is the smallest problem she might have...
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1 hour ago, kansas424 said:
Cutting hair means alot more than that.
ANyway, Wan Ik wont stop killing AS just because she cut her hair ROFL.
Irregardless of what Dong Mae thinks, his action is not excusable. It really shows that he didn't understand AeShin at all. She wont stop being RA just because she lost her hair? Her pride, her faith, her cause, losing those are no different than being dead despite being physically alive.
It's a selfish act. He wants to be the guy to save her, and he did it his way, and the least effective way lmao. This is not saving, you ruined her freaking life for god sake. Your love is just possessive, with no sense of respect at all.
I feel like the writer is trying to change the perception of those delusioned girls harping on guys with the same possessive mindset which they classify as hot bla bla bla. In reality, it really isn't.I think it is too early to say that. From what we see in episode 19, DM just wants to protect AS and we do not know his motivation yet.
there are two things that were made clear in the last episodes:
1) AS can be quite impulsive. The gunner told her not to visit the hut, but she went there. and now LWI caught on something about her birth. Eugene also kept her at the legation although she wanted to go to her grandfather. and he advised her that sometimes not to do anything is better.
She uses her noble status, but now this is not of very much help.
But there is an even bigger problem: compared with most of the other characters in the drama, AS does not have access to information. Her agency is crippled by her diminished knowledge of the situation. Recall that even in the RA, she is meant to be kept in the dark about the actual things, for her protection.
2) DM is on her side. Because of his connections, he has some insight into what's happening that is even better than that of EC. We do not know yet whether DM's motivation was his desire to have her for himself and deny her agency. Maybe it was a way to protect her, but because he did not have time to ask her, he did what's the best thing.
Moreover, asking her what is best for her rationally speaking might not be the best thing to do: as I said, she does not have much knowledge about what's happening.
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2 hours ago, bedifferent said:
I'm not sure if I understand this point. Are you saying that the hospital is profitable and actually is used to support Hwayeong? Well, I think Goo was asked to do a lot. If I remember correctly, CEO Cho wants the new medical center in Sontang be funded by the hospital. It was Seung-Hyo who countered back that Hwayeong should pay for the expansion. CEO Cho was happy to hear about the surplus, president Goo get an A here for scrutinizing the books well. All the profits from Hwayeong drug company, insurance, apps (if the deal felt through), selling pt's heath informations will be used to build the new medical center. All the trimmings with the nurses salaries and equipment cuts help to reduce cost. The pay per performance model that Seung-Hyo is pushing for will get them higher reimbursements. Before President Goo comes in, they were in the red because Peds, ER and OB/GYN were bleeding money. Goo found a way to keep the 3 depts but only if the hospital agrees to play by his rules of pushing costs toward patients and the government (insurance).
7Yes, that's what I am saying. The drama makes it clear that the hospital made a lot of money in the past. This is something that the president explained in episode 8: at first, he did not believe that the big four hospitals make a profit, but after checking the books and discovering the reserve, he said that his hospital went from red to black.
From what I heard about the non-profits, this is not surprising. Many and probably the most successful non-profits make money, but their books cannot show this. This is why they allocate the extra money for some kind of expenses: practically, they hide the money because they know that they need it and once taken, they do not get it back.
Moreover, in episode 2, the CEO says clear that the hospital needs to generate revenues for the entire group. and he explains to president Gu why: First, his other subsidiaries will not be profitable for much longer. Probably he invested in something old-fashioned (we saw him complaining that he did not enter on the phone market.)
Second, people would always need health care. What the company does is to exploit this need. They sell then more expensive drugs, more expensive insurance, and the most interesting aspect on which the show insist, they use their data to target them with things that they know they would need. Remember the interesting discussion in the first episode how the data of the patients will be used to increase their insurance's premium.
So, yes, the CEO sees the hospital not as a problematic subsidiary in need of being rescued, but as the one subsidiary that would save his company.
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@rubie thank you for the pictures. I love how LBH plays Eugene, but the scene of the hug was really really something else.
I do not know if it was in the script that he needs to cry, but he was amazing in that scene. and even his reaction before, when he caresses her hand and the surprise on his face as if her hands are too small or too something. and I love that KTR's face showed something else than the usual surprise that I see so often in Korean drama and do not understand. She was somewhat confused by his sudden hug and pained by his pain. maybe she even understood the gravity of what they are doing, because it is not clear that this will end well.
I think it ends something for Eugene, but I am not sure what. It is interesting than the rest of the episode is about his parents again. Maybe it is a new stage of grief. He finally made peace with what happened to him and his parents.
I want to hear people's thoughts about why he responded only now to AS's hug. and how people understand his emotions in that hug. For me, it is not clear why he cried. I find that crying makes the scene more powerful than it could have been otherwise. Did he cry because he did not lose her? Did he cry because she is the only one that he has and the only one that understands him? did he cry because he founds the whole situation so frustrating (he wants her, but he cannot have her). So why do you think he cried?
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1 hour ago, bedifferent said:
Hwajeong bought the hospital recently, sending in Seung-Hyo to restructure the teaching hospital to run it like any business with the goal of profitting and somehow find a way to channel the profits back to the conglomerate while escaping taxes. The only way he could successfully do this is to make the whole process a closed loop with insurance, drug companies and physicians working together. Thus he needs a director who is willing to work with this business plan, Dr Oh or Dr Kim. This kind of business thinking is necessary for the hospital to stay afloat but in the process, it creates all kinds of ethical crossroads for physicians, staff and most importantly the residents.
I agree with a lot of things in your post, but this is something that I do not agree. I do not see why for the hospital to stay afloat it is necessary for it to become the milking cow of the Hwajeong corporation.
1. First, the hospital is in no need of staying afloat. It stays afloat very nicely. In ep. 8, the president mentioned the hospital's reserve found for essential business. When he mentioned its amount, even the CEO was surprised.
2. The CEO said that the plan is for the hospital to generate revenues to keep afloat the entire group. (ep. 4) His strategy seems to be to put the hospital to buy things to keep afloat the corporation. I imagine this to happen with the new building: a subsidiary will construct at a price decided by the corporation. The same happened with the drugs too: they are useless and expensive, something above the market price.
2. Didn't the president purchase the land for the new hospital and paid well above the market price? what he did was a favour/bribe to a politician, but the favour serves not the hospital but the CEO.
I find the drama brilliant because it pays attention to this new aspect of health care industry: there is a lot of investment from corporations because of its profitability, not lack of profitability. (in fact, dr. Oh makes this point when they discuss the strike) It also shows that all these discussions about privatizing public services because they are not profitable is a kind of BS.
I take your point about inclusion. But there might be a reason why dr. Oh did not request a raise in salary for the nurses: nurses have their own union. Should she solidarize herself with them, even before they make any claim? If she were a communist, yes. But she is not. In fact, dr. Oh said that she agrees with the president that they are not running a charity there.
Her point of view is that the hospital needs to buy things to stay on top instead of investing in the salaries of people. I can see how this can go wrong, but for now, her position is not completely wrong. Investing in technology can help even the nurses. (But this is speculation, we need to see more of what she is thinking)
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@bedifferent Thanks, and since you encouraged me and since i see that dr. Oh is so criticized, I have to defend her further. So you are to be blamed for this post. I'm joking...
3 hours ago, triplem said:I am completely with you on Dr Oh. I’m in academics like you and IMO she’s not a great teacher or mentor. She’s no doubt great at what she does and probably deserves the presidency given her competencies & ability to wrangle the things she want . But I always felt that the role of the president is to represent the welfare of its staff & patients, and balance off the commercial aspirations of the Chairman. If both the president & Chairman are equally as capitalist with little conscience or heart , I pity the staff & patients.
So you think that she is as profit orientated as the president? Do you have some proof for this? because this cannot be assumed from her teaching style and neither from her alleged lack of compassion.
You might think that the incident with the 3D machine shows this. This is how I see it: the president stated that he will introduce private insurance in the hospital, that is, that there would be some office where people would be able to acquire private insurance plans. Dr. Oh said that the doctors would not be selling private insurance plans to the patients; the president said there is no need; there will be outside sellers for that. So, the selling of the private insurance was a fait acompli. What dr. Oh did, she threatened that the doctors will actively persuade patients not to buy the insurance. At this moment, she got an opening and proposed for what was already something decided, that the hospital gets the 3D machine. So what I see there is a clever negotiation: idealistically, she could have recommended to the doctors to say no to the insurance plans, but instead, she exchanges this recommendation for the 3D machine. Would have been better to make the recommendation? I do not think so: what the series shows us is that doctors are divided and not very reverent towards their superiors (look at all the inside fights between them). Moreover, individually, the doctors are still free to recommend to the patients not to buy insurance.
Many of you talk about the conflict administration - doctors in this series, I think that there is a deeper issue. The hospital is part of a conglomerate, an economical group. The president works for the conglomerate, not the hospital. So his duty is to increase the profits of the conglomerate, not of the hospital. If you recall the first episodes, the CEO of the group encouraged the president to put the hospital at the center of the group activities. what we see in this series is more than making a hospital profitable. It is about how health care can be used to create more profit for other economical enterprises, and everything is done at the expense of the patient and sometimes of the doctors. Remember how the president was selling patient data to an insurance company, that was a subsidiary of the group. Other similar incidents: the drugs that help the subsidiaries; the discussion about the app.
Probably what we will see next is the unravelling of this conflict between making/keeping the hospital profitable vs using it to serve to further the goals of the conglomerate. The president is far from being on the good side. Did we see him doing anything against the conglomerate?
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Being married might give AS more freedom in carrying her activities as a freedom fighter and maybe even a better cover up. But if this is the case, whose name can help her more? Eugene or the young master?
Some days ago, there were some discussions about AS going to Shanghai. Last episode, Eugene seems to have discovered that Joseph's destination was Shanghai and now he knows, I think, that one of the four friends in the photo is here. (He also asked AS if she knows what the guys in the photo meant about the plum flower.)
On the other hand, it is clear that somebody needs to do bring the money to the guy in Shanghai to buy more guns for the RA. If this is correct, somebody has to travel to Shanghai. If AS has to do it, it is easier for her to travel as a married woman. It might be even easier to travel as Eugene's wife.
But this is just speculation.
I liked the despair in Eugene's hug of AS. It shows that in a way, for him, she is the only one keeping him sane. I also loved that he thought of taking the burden of shooting him from her. When he offered the gun to the potter, he put the responsibility of the shooting on the potter. That was cleverly done.
Some questions: When will Eugene start taking revenge on LWI? he knows that he is responsible for Joseph's death. I'm also wondering what Dong Mae will do with the new information about Eugene's origins.
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9 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:
By the way, I didn't like the way she is teaching... the students made mistakes and they had to leave the class. However, there is this saying: you learn from mistakes and that's what JW has been saying. A real good doctor should have first given an example: mention all the parameters for the case and then give a different case and see if they would be able not to overlook all the info relevant for the case: in order to make the right decision how to treat the illness.
I like your point about Dr. Oh's style of teaching, but I do not agree with how you interpret it.
Her students did not really have to leave the class, for as one can see from the scene nobody leaves the class nor intends to do it. Probably nobody takes her threats seriously, because they know that they should not. She is just exasperated with them. In fact, after requesting them to leave the class, she slowly explains to them the issue. We do not know the set-up of the case, but it seems that she already gave them all the information for them to draw the correct conclusion.
Dr. Oh uses an old style of teaching, where professors are kind of harsh, but helpful and very concerned about their students. Some people can take the harsh criticism, especially older generation of adults are used to it. People find this style more patronizing. I prefer this style because it treats students as adults, who can understand the gravity of what happens in the class. In contrast, I find the more recent style of teaching, of 'petting' the students, entertaining them, catering to their imaginary needs, only a by-product of a way of seeing the student as a consumer of education, not as an equal participant in education. When dr. Oh says to the students, you are wasting my time, she complains that they do not rise to the occasion, that they do not take seriously the challenge.
I found that younger people do not appreciate the old style at all, and especially find it problematic in women because they expect women to be nurturing. Dr. Oh is not and I personally find that refreshing in a female character.
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56 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:
Imagine... they only buy one machine!! Do you think that it is possible that the patients from all departments can be sent there? There will be a waiting list.
Yes, not only I can imagine it. This is the reality. Why do you think people have to wait for tests for months sometimes? Because there are only a few machines. Some years ago, a friend waited several months for an MRI scan in Canada. there are waiting lists, and people are bumped up or down usually based on their health condition: urgent cases are dealt with before the less urgent ones. and there are rules for how this should happen. When people jump in line because of money, there are scandals, because rules are overpassed.
Quote56 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:Don't forget that she only helped the good interns because that way, she can improve her reputation. She selects her interns based on their talents. People with less skills shouldn't been neglected because even if they are less talented, it doesn't mean that you have to abandon them. I am myself a teacher and I see it as my duty to support all students, especially the weaker ones as they need more aid and encouragement. Usually, some of them work even harder than the smarter ones. Hardworking should be the criteria and not just talent. Finally, there is a huge difference between OSW and LBH. The latter took an interest in all departments, she doesn't.
Your comments are very thought-provoking.
Does a university professor who has PhD students have a duty to support his weak students? I do not think so, because at that level it is about adults and nobody needs to do a PhD. In our case, nobody needs to be an intern at that specific hospital, which seems to be very prestigious. And in the end, nobody has to become a doctor, which is a very good job, but which requires a lot of knowledge, talent etc.
I also do not think that there is something wrong with selecting the interns. Should a PhD program accept any kinds of students? Becoming an intern at that hospital is about achievements, not only about working hard. Dr. Oh picks her interns based on merit. This is what she must do, because she has a duty to give her patients the best care, which she does by working with the best people she can find.
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Quote3 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:
I have to disagree with you. Just like I expected it from her, she uses her position for her own career and own benefit (her own department). She is supposed to represent all departments at the hospital which she doesn't. She is not really different from KTS in the end. She is an elitist person who looks down on others. Her deal with Gu only helps her and her own need.
Striking is that once the person died, she might have wanted to use the body without any consent which is ethically wrong. But I have another theory. Anyway, I guess the person who died is related to the accusation against the Speaker from the Korean National Assembly. She was the person who gave the evidence to the journalist whom JW likes. (see the preview).
1Sorry for cutting your post. I am surprised to read this, and in general I'm surprised that there are so few discussions on the forum about her character. In fact, from the beginning of the series, dr. Oh was my favourite characters. I'm very unhappy that she does not have more screen time because she is for me kind of the equivalent of the female detective from Secret Forest.
This is how I perceived her character and her actions, please let me know where I am wrong.
The 3D biosimulator does not help only the neurosurgery department. As she explained, the machine can make 3D replicas of many organs. It probably helps most of the surgery departments. So I do not see how she can advance only her position.
In the past, dr. Oh was the one that behaved the most ethically among the doctors. When the departments were under control, she was the only one who raised an ethical concern: patient information is confidential. She raised that point because rules and laws need to be followed in an inquiry. Moreover, when it came to the decision to recommend drugs to patients, she also was the only one who complained to the president.
She seems to be a professional: she takes pride in what she is doing and she wants things to be done correctly and according to the rules. She is not an idealist: as she said to the president, they should not run a charity, but whatever they run, doctors need to have pride in their work. Medicine like teaching and some other jobs are called vocational for a reason. Managers in these fields need to be aware of this, because completely applying the standards of business destroys the nature of these jobs.
Dr. Oh is ambitious, but what's wrong with that? The director is ambitious but nobody faults him for that. Some people have said that she yells all the time. I did not notice that, in fact, she seems to be well liked by people in her department I also see her defensive because I see her fighting the sexism of her male coworkers.
I do not know how she will be presented in the future, but for now, she is the most professional among the doctors. She takes care of her interns, she is level-headed, she has ethical principles, she is outspoken when things affect her work. She is not shown to emotionally care about her patients. But this is a plus in a surgeon. When I see doctor Joon Kyung Moon, because he is so overworked and so bad at distributing tasks to his subalterns (as the discussion in one of the last episodes show), I see a mistake in the happening. Realistically, JKH is a danger: it is so easy for him to make a mistake during an operation.
So please let me know what you think the problem with dr. Oh is.
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I think that the conflict became more compelling with the last episode: it is about Eugene getting into conflict with the Righteous army because of a noble cause: the clearing of Joseph's name. Still, it is not clear to me why the advisor is so convinced that Eugene will uncover the activities of the Righteous Army.
The story with the letter contains a few important elements:
1. It seems that LWI does not fully trust his servant, the guy who is the husband of AS's cousin, for he told him that the letter is a fake.
2. LWI's letter can affect four things, 3 of them were named by the Japanese minister, the fourth one is unknown: it can be either solving the problem with GDM or the problem with AS's grandfather. Or maybe both, since LWI seems intent to find a husband for Hina. Or maybe something different...
The emperor's decision might not the best one. Strategically, he went for a short-term gain (avoiding the collusion with the Japanese for some time and covering for the Righteous army) instead of a long-term one. But his decision costs him three things:
1. He brought an enemy closer to him.
2. He entrusted his fate in the hands of LWI, who has the letter but can make it public at any time.
3. He alienated Eugene, who might not have been on his side, but at least he could have been.
There might be a fourth aspect: The emperor chose realpolitik over being sentimental about Joseph's death. But in a time that requires unity of all classes, he kind of sent a bad message: people who help Joseon are dispensable, especially if they are not us. Unfortunately, not many people are like the emperor or his advisor, that is, aristocrats. (will AS's grandfather be also a victim of the emperor's choice? or is this only Eugene's perception?)
The meeting between the potter and the adviser is interesting because it hints to the power and class dynamic in the group. While the advisor talks about the audacity of Eugene to refuse the offer of the emperor, the potter thinks of the good deeds Eugene did. Moreover, in the meeting, both the potter and his companion stayed with their heads bowed, which seems to suggest that the fighters for freedom are not equal with the advisor.
If this scene shows indeed the power dynamic in the group, then Eugene might have a chance to convince the potter to be more careful in the dealings with the emperor. Eugene should have taken the Gunner with him, for neither of them is a fan of the political fights of the aristocrats.
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52 minutes ago, luna11 said:
I can't remember if I shared these pictures before or if I just linked them. But some of you may remember it from episode seven when DM, HS, and EG all gather outside the hotel. At the time, lots of people (including myself) were saying that it was likely wishful thinking on Dong Mae's part because of what the other two were picturing. But then today's episode (13) aired, and I noticed that Dong Mae only took one coin from Ae Shin after they talked. You can see him turning the coin over near the end of the episode. That made me think of the scene pictured below, which now gives me hope that maybe it wasn't wishful thinking and is instead a glimpse of the future? A future where they are on good enough terms that he returns the coin to her because he no longer wants to keep her in debt to him.
On a side note, if this is a glimpse of the future, that means the other two scenes are as well and I'm just ASAKSDOFKSE at the possibilities.
I agree with you that it is kind of a glimpse of the future: he made his dream come true.
I see the scenes differently. In DM's dream in episode 7, he still takes money from her. Given the last episode, we understand why he keeps AS in debt to him, namely to see her. In my view, the last episode made it clear how sad/tragic DM dream was. Even when DM dreamt about being together with AS, he did not expect anything more than AS visiting him to pay him money. His dream shows that DM fully realizes how hopeless his love is.
I was also wondering whether all the dreams in episode 7 were sad. For example, Eugene looks from afar to an AS in western clothes. Now we know that there are customs that go against them being together. Eugene was from the beginning aware of these customs, so what he dreams is for AS to live in a peaceful modernized country (Korea), while he watches her from afar. Again, his dream shows that he does not have hopes for their relationship. So I am wondering whether Eugene would also make his sad dream true.
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55 minutes ago, Emily Wong said:
Hmm looks like Eugene will turn rogue in the next episode... If I have to guess, there was probably some sort of conspiracy behind X’s death...
What do you mean by turning rogue? and what was it in the preview of episode 14 to make you think that? From what we see, Eugene is still a soldier and he seems to be conducting an investigation into Joseph's death probably.
It seemed to me that Dong Mae is tortured by Korean or Japanese police, not by American soldiers.
Eugene needs to hear how Ae shin got into the possession of Joseph's letter. She never told him that, but now it becomes important for once he knows that, he can deduce that Lee Wan Ik is involved and that there was something between Joseph and the emperor. It might be that Eugene is upset with the emperor's advisor because the emperor did not take all the precautions to ensure that nothing happens to Joseph. I think it was suggested that Joseph was a go-between person, carrying a message from the emperor to somebody. But LWI came upon this information quite quickly; moreover, the police seems to be loyal to LWI, not the emperor.
If I am correct, then this would fit with Eugene's remark from a previous episode about how clumsy the Righteous army is.
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I see that there are so many theories about what might happen, but are we so clear about what has already happened in the last episode? I am not.
Several people have mentioned that the relationship between AS and Eugene entered a new stage: they seem to have agreed to enjoy each other without thinking that this will lead to any marriage in the future. I have two questions:
First, what made Eugene and As to change their minds about their relationship? The previous episode made it clear that Eugene wanted to leave to allow AS to forget; AS decided to cut ties with him to protect him. It is true that these are not really good reasons, but they are still reasons that help us understand why the characters behave the way they do.
Second, can somebody more versed in Korean drama explain how AS and Eugene understand their relationship now and what they expect out of it? By now a few characters, including AS and maybe Eugene, acknowledged that these two relationship is against the moral customs of the period. So how do they think about the new stage of their relationship? Just enjoying each other presence and endangering their lives?
In short, in episode 12 something happened that changed our characters' mind and allowed them to have new hopes about their relationship. So what exactly happened?
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Several people have asked whether DM says to Eugene that he saw him on the roof in Jemulpo. I do not know what was said in Korean, but the Netflix translation made sense to me. DM and EC brought HS in the room to avoid HS's clothes drawing attention. Then what follows is a funny discussion about what they will do if the question of the identity of the shooter in Jemulpo arises. All know the shooter is AS and want to defend her. But their way of doing is very different: DM says that he saw Eugene, Eugene says he does not inquire into the issue, HS tells them he had already solved the issue by dressing in the same suit to make it become fashionable. (The three solutions reflect their characters and behaviour: DM is after Eugene because he is jealous; Eugene will not rush and use his power as an American soldier and HS acts in a frivolous but effective way.)
I was wondering why AS left after Eugene told her his story. The conclusion I came is that AS felt guilty: guilty of being a noble, guilty of not inquiring further into why she fights and for what she fights. Interpreted in this way, I think her discussion afterwards with the gunner makes more sense, especially the gunner reassuring her that she is not biased against lower classes. I am very curious what you think about why AS left.
(For the moment, the piece of advice the gunner gave her makes some sense, but it is not a very persuasive: Eugene's status in Joseon is different from that of the gunner. However, it is also not very very different. I'm very curious how they will resolve this new problem that appeared.)
@mistymorning I think you are right about Hina's remarks about Eugene. Indeed, he is neither at home in Joseon, nor in America. In the first or second episode, didn't he suspect he was sent to Joseon so that if he fails, the Americans will blame him for being a Joseon person? Probably Eugene is very aware that he does not fit in any of the countries. Maybe the fact that he is accepted by the potter is a sign that he finally found its place.
I think we are told that Eugene will join the Righteous army because he has some skills that the Righteous army really needs.
He is a very good strategist (everybody praises him for how he acts) and the rebel army needs one (Eugene remarks that the rebel army is a very clumsy organization). What I expect in the future is for him to start training the rebel army. From what I read, historically the armies were led by people from very different backgrounds. For example, one is Choi Ik-hyeon: I think the emperor's adviser seems to be based on him. Some other leaders were commoners, one I think was even a hunter (if I remember correctly from what I read). So the Righteous army/armies seems to be a mix of people from very different backgrounds, and Eugene would have fitted there.
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. Don't be too serious ladies. Everything is done for a reason. Give him the benefit of a doubt. Wait for next week for more explanation.
[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下
in Mainland China
Posted
I also agree with @Pollen Ainne. He desires the throne, in fact he once explained to the headmaster that his ultimate plan is to restore the empire to the glory of the previous one. That does not mean yet that he is willing to kill the emperor, but he wants to become the prince who will be chosen as an emperor.
The convoluted actions he takes to get there are because he is also strategic: he said several times that he does not have much of support, that's why the headmaster suggested that he marries.
He also thinks that he cannot do anything until he destroys the Chang family, something that the headmaster did not quite agree with. The prince took the Censorate position to destroy the head of the Chang family, which serves multiple purposes when it will be done.
Other important motives for his actions are his feelings for FZW as well as his principle not to harm the innocents. These two motives make him sometimes to choose a more difficult path to attain his goals
I have a question for people who are familiar with both the show and the novel: Does the series cover novel until the end, but not the ending? or the ending is something that happens in the book at some point, but the book continues after that point?