tzupi
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Posts posted by tzupi
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5 minutes ago, zba72 said:
I am very curious with Hina’s character. Did she purposely tell EC to speak English at the palace to reveal pro-japanese officers who are working for the emperor? I would think because of her father she has the information of those who work for him or maybe what she knows from her guests. I hope we will get to learn more about her in the coming episodes.
While watching the scene when Hina got the letter from the emperor, I was asking myself whether she is the spy that the emperor's official was talking about a few episodes ago. People were speculating that the spy who had his eyes on Hina's father in Japan was AS's fiance. But after this episode, I was thinking that the spy might be Hina. (although I do not know: Hina is not in good relations with her father, so spying on him is kind of difficult, it would be better if the spy were close to her father.)
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1 hour ago, bedifferent said:
Question: What do you think was going on in EC’s mind when he revealed the pawn note after he left the court? He was conflicted prior and wanted to gauge the emperor’s character before making his decision. The interpreter changed his mind.
Thank you for your other points (I found them very illuminating, and I'm sorry to leave them out) and for asking this question. I was also wondering about it. I think EC was in a way open to a discussion when he went to see the emperor--he brought the document with him. But what I think changed his mind was the attitude of the emperor. The emperor's way of addressing Eugene as if he were a Joseon person/maybe subject opened Eugene's old wounds. It is as if Eugene was testing himself by going to see the emperor: can he bring himself to help Joseon? and he could not. Asking Eugene about his parents and assuming that he would be an aristocrat was also not helping the emperor's side. Eugene's reaction, on the other hand, was too personal, so too subjective. I think he understood this, so he confides with Kyle and after that, he tries to amend the situation by visiting the emperor's official. Kyle's advice to Eugene is always about keeping him on the right path: do not get revenge, try to heal your wounds, enjoy your life.
I see two main problems for Eugene in the future. First, the fact that he is an American soldier. Sometimes I'm wondering whether by his actions Eugene is not committing some kind of treason. and I think he also is concerned with this. For example, at the end of episode 7, Kyle told him that he needs to write a report about the geisha incident. Eugene was not very happy with this, probably because he understood that he would have to lie. At the beginning of the series, Eugene was avoiding ethical/political problems because he was just omitting facts. As the time passes and his involvement with AS progresses, things get murkier. Second, the fact that he was a slave. I am very curious how the scene in which he would finally tell AS about his parents is written.8 hours ago, Susie Derkins said:Can someone elaborate the conversation EC and AS were having please? All these double meanings and references. When EC said he was the one doing all the rowing, does that mean all his subtle hints of confessions towards Ae sin? Thank you in advance.
1I was taking it as a joke. As I remember, Eugene needed a boat to get to the potter; AS allowed him in the boat; because of that, Eugene got indebted to AS; but at the same time, he did all the rowing. So it was as if she took twice advantage of him: first, by putting him to do the rowing, next my making him indebted to her.
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8 hours ago, daydreamer115 said:
If we're talking about Mr. Sunshine's main characters having cold blood and having no problem in killing people, we are actually talking about 3 people here - Dong Mae, Eugene and even Ae Shin. These 3 people have been killing people though the reasons behind their killings differ. We know who Dong Mae killed and why since these were shown in this drama, as for Eugene, him being a US Marine officer and having participated in the Spanish - American war and have killed countless of men himself - he was not forced to do it and it was his own choice to be an army. And Ae Shin (& Eugene) killing the American Logan Taylor based on their own reasons. The killings made by this 3 characters could be also be argued whether or not they are justified and appropriate.
I understand when people think Dong Mae as non-redeemable because the drama shows us how he killed those people so ruthlessly, making people shocked and horrified. But in actuality, the other characters also have no problem in killing people (regardless of their reasons).
...adwhefbaehjgbra idk why am talking about killing and stuffs lmao sorry bye.
3Sorry for cutting your post. Thank you for raising the question how justified the actions of our fighters are. I think last week or some weeks before, somebody raised the same point: Eugene being a soldier is not much different from DM's being a gang member. At that time, my first reaction was to say that there are more ethical rules in what one does in war than in how one engages in gang activities, but then I realized that we are before the Geneva conventions. Moreover, even if there might have been treatises regulating conduct during wars before 1949, I think it is clear that the Americans are in Korea for no good reasons: they are depicted as invaders. Second, as you mentioned, Eugene got himself into the army, and he does not seem to have any strong allegiance to America. So we cannot even say that he became a soldier because he loves his host country. Given all this, last week, I could not bring myself to defend the view that one's actions (Eugene) are more justified than the other one's (DM).
But after last week episodes, I think that there are some arguments to be made in favour of the view that although our characters engage in combat, there are some important differences in how they do it. Both DM and Eugene have an axe to grind: they suffered at the hand of Joseon people (aristocracy, but also poor people). Both took the path of violence to solve their issues. But it is also true that one picked a more socially accepted path to violence (the army). The Army shapes Eugene's character and, although I do not like to say it, makes him better. On the one hand, the army seems to have taught Eugene to show restraint, which is important for a person engaged in violence. (see the discussions of Eugene with his superior, Kyle--I think it is important that Kyle is his superior, not just his friend; DM mostly lacks restraint and I want him to learn it from somebody; his right-hand man is not a moral model for him, in a way Kyle might be for Eugene). Restraint also helps Eugene in a different way: people seem to come to him for help or they feel safe enough to voice their concerns and views around him. (see the conversation with the gunman and him helping the child) More generally, because he shows self-restraint, Eugene is more open to listening to people than DM is.
On the other hand, in the army, Eugene learns to care about others. I liked how Kyle pointed out to Eugene that they are in the service of American people: they are not just engaging in wars, but sometimes they need to help civilians (Taylor's wife). And at least now, Eugene shows more consideration to civilians that he did before.
So although I agree with you, that the army's actions (and by extension Eugene's actions) are not justified, I still think that the army socializes Eugene in a way that helps him find better ways to deal with his own issues and in the end help those around him.
(as you can see I haven't said anything about AS: it is not clear to me why she fights, whether it is for maintaining the privileges of the aristocracy or for a new and better society. So I am reluctant to defend her actions.)
Thank you for raising this point. I find the discussion about DM and Eugene very very interesting: as I said before, DM is a fascinating character and it is interesting to understand why at the same time some people are drawn to him, but other cannot approve his actions.
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What do you think AS meant by 'love' when she asked Eugene whether he wants to it together with her? (during the boat riding) Isn't something more like being comrades? She also uses the term 'romantic era', but again it is not clear what she means by it. From what she says, I thought that it does not have anything to do with love, but more with lonely idealistic heroes who fight against established rules. (she seems to use the term to refer to some characteristics associated with a distinct period in the history of western culture, the romantic period. but this is puzzling, for the romantic period is at the end of the 18th century. From wikipedia, there seems to be a neo-romantic period around the end of the 19th beginning of the 20th century.)
Since we do not understand each other unless we mean the same by the terms we use, when Eugene asks her whether she wants to do love together, he must mean the same as she does. Otherwise, she would not understand what he asks. He might intend some more, but his intention would probably not be understood by AS, because she does not understand the meaning of the word---of course, there is also the possibility that meanwhile, she learned the word.
So what do you think that she meant by 'love' and 'romantic era' in the previous episodes?
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On 7/24/2018 at 1:48 AM, miracle23 said:
It is interesting to read your post as it portrays a contrasting view on the character. I may sound sympathetic towards DM, but truth is thus far I find his character's development the most consistent. It makes it easier to walk his path, by his side. Looking out to those little points that indicate a DM of Joseon under that facade that is a DM of Japan is like completing a puzzle. Having YYS as DM is definitely a bonus most welcome hahaha
Anyway, thanks for the good read!
Cheers!
2Thank you for your explanation and also thank you @daydreamer115.
One thing that I was surprised is how you interpreted what happened in his childhood. I did not take the behaviour of the old ladies to have anything to do with the subsequent rape attempt /rape. (I am not fully convinced it has, but who knows...) From how you understood the story, I can see why the mutilation of the old lady seems to some to be appropriate. (I still find that the punishment did not fit the crime, but as I said I can now see why people think differently.)
I agree with you DM is a very interesting character, and I like how his story shares similarities, but it is also very different from that of Eugene. I especially like that his behaviour raises questions about the limits of morality, about social desirability etc.
But despite this, I still think that the way he deals with his issues is not one that I can cheer for or approve in a person. His behaviour is toxic to society and to himself. In my opinion, he is beyond a bad boy who can be redeemed by a woman. (In fact, I do not believe that women can reform bad boys, a trope that I see a lot in Korean dramas. The trope has more to do with how men think about the role of women and how women have internalized the expectation to be the spiritual saviours of awful men). What I think he needs is a male role model. (In this respect, what saved Eugene is that he had some good male role models: the potter, the missionary, probably some of the people in the army.) Unfortunately, given the circles in which DM moves, there are no role models yet for him. In short, I want him to become morally better, for example, to fight for a better cause, or at least to find inner peace, but right now he is not doing any of these. But there are so many episodes left, so again who knows...
Thank you once again for your explanation.
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Like some of the people who commented before, I am baffled by the defence of DM as a character, although I find the discussion about him extremely interesting and illuminating. So why exactly do people relate to DM (except for his looks and his unfortunate childhood)? We do not talk about the child DM, but the adult DM.
He is a thug, a yakuza member (or gang member), who, if left by himself, can kill people almost indiscriminately. (See the episode in which he hears about the return of the fiancee and starts beating other people). He is unnecessarily cruel, or even sadistic (see how he mutilated the woman who humiliated him as a child). In my opinion, DM does not have any excuse for what he does now. He inflicts more pain on people who are already in pain and suffer and he only thinks of himself. There is already a lot of violence in a poor community, DM is just an instrument of increasing that violence.
Does DM act like he does because he needs to survive? No, he acts like he does because he can. He can be sadistic, he can mutilate, he can kill without impunity and so he does it if it pleases him. He is different from the slave servant that beat the child Eugene, at least that guy was a slave, for whom it was hard to say no to his master. But DM actively offers his services to those in power for more looting and crime.
I do not have issues with DM's lack of allegiance to his country, but I find it problematic that he does not show any sympathy for the poor and the marginalized ones.
I find the introduction of a point of view that is neither of the higher class, nor of the army, nor of the thugs, to be the most interesting aspect of the story so far. I loved what the bad servant said to Eugene in the last episode: you cannot carry your revenge only on the weak, because they are not the only one who did wrong; go after the powerful ones too. I also liked what the gunner said to Eugene about how for the poor people, there is not much difference between the violence of the Japanese and the American army. There is also the potter, who helped Eugene, but did not take anything in return, although he does not show the same restraint with the rich ones.
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6 hours ago, daynci said:
one thing im curios is the prince belt
it hangs diffenly from other king/prince
Isn't possible that the belt is round because it is meant to allow the prince to fight? being puzzled by the other squarish belts, I searched a bit on why they have that strange shape because just by looking to them, they seem not to be comfortable. (I am still searching why they have that particular shape, if it was fashion, or if there was a purpose to it, or both...)
However, all the swordsmen costumes I saw have round belts. Of course, their belts are different from the one of the prince, because they usually allow one to keep the sword, so they are made of softer material, while the prince belt seems to be made out of metal plates. But I realized that having a round belt also allows one to fight with ease.
and CP needs to fight when he needs to fight... there is a one scene where I think the prince would have looked less imposing with a squarish belt, namely when he draws the sword for RO at the end in front of her father (did he have his royal attire when he confronted the Chinese diplomat? because that would have been another case.) But people with more knowledge of historical dramas could tell if kings who went to war or fighting were also wearing the squarish belts.
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4 hours ago, honeywell said:
Speaking of RO's parents, I feel like the writer dropped the ball on this one. Plot wise it wasn't even necessary to bring them back. In the end it doesn't even seem like they were pardoned. The white cloud disappeared after saving HGN. He was more like a plot point. We don't even know what happened after he got saved. I think it would have been better if RO was the one that got captured and the white cloud saved her because of her father.
This is a very good question: why exactly did they bring the father back?
I was thinking that in a way it was the ultimate test: for the couple and for the CP. The father was the big bad wolf for the king, and for the entire royal family. bringing him back was an occasion for us to see whether CP is not only a pretty face and big ideals, but also somebody who can effect some real changes. I thought that it was also a test for the couple, because in the last meeting that RO and CP have, in which she pulls the dagger, it is about her father (she does not know that he is alive). But she talks about her resentment and his resentment. The CP does not deny any of the allegations made by her. I take at face value what she says: on top of the class division between them, now is added a personal drama. So in my view the appearance of the father is supposed to solve the personal drama.
I will use this post also to raise a problem of my own that I have with the script.
I still do not get CP's answer to RO's when she pulls the dagger. There is an obvious way to read that answer: he sees through her act. But I was thinking that she is not acting. when she brings up the drama and the social division, she points out to him real aspects of their situation. (and she has always been the voice of the down to earth person--when he orders her not to get hurt again (because as a royal person, everything happens according to his orders), she replies to him that hurting is not something one usually does intentionally). But even if the correct interpretation of that scene is that he sees through her act, I still don't understand what he means when he says that he would have believed whatever she would have said to him say, even her lies. (I remember raising questions about this scene before, but I do not remember if somebody came with an explanation for what happens in this scene.)
I think people who think that RO puts up an act in this scene, to make CP return to the palace, probably will not see any problem with the scene. however, I take that RO was sincere. Let me be clear even if she is sincere, this doesn't mean that she stopped loving CP, it is just that she points out to him the whole conundrum in which they are. But if indeed that's all there is to that scene, namely that she puts up an act, then I find the script very bad there. I also found it very difficult to reject the accusation of noble idiocy.
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48 minutes ago, NongpeeP said:
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We can't ensure about family background before marriage of RaOn's mom and dad. In my opinion, after marriage, according to neighbor's reference to Kim Hyung, they mentioned RaOn's dad occasionally visited RaOn's mom and they heard their quarrel. According to conversation between RaOn's mom and Eunuch Chief(White Mask Leader), she did not agree with rebellion which negatively affected to her family's living and RaOn has had no memory of her dad. Her Mom or Teacher Chung might teach RaOn language. From conversation by RaOn's dad with Crown Prince and announced in the interrogate court, he objected nobility, dad might not come from nobility.
Sorry for cutting your post. I've just wanted to add that there is another story that is relevant and points even more to the possibility that the mother was not nobility. In ep. 14, the mother reminisces about how RO's father courted her. and she mentions that they were friends from the same village, that other men brought her ornaments and flowers that they picked, but RO's father brought her things to eat (barley, rice and when he did not have what to eat, even tree barks). She says that she picked him because she was sure that she would not die of hunger with him. These gifts do not strike me as being for a noble woman, nor coming from a noble man (also her concern with having what to eat is not the concern of a noble woman). either both were really low low nobility, or they were peasants. I think everything points in the direction of them being peasants. I do not know of a good argument that they were noble.
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1 hour ago, Jillia said:
But you realize Margery Kempe lived during a completely different era? There is a difference between the 14th century and the 18th century. I mean I get where you're coming from but there are worlds between these two women - apart from the cultural difference, different religion etc.
I know that even during that time education for women was a rare thing but there are also countries in which the education of noble ladies (of course educated in a way they wouldn't be able to be a danger for men) was important. And writing and reading - aside from stitching, painting etc. - belong to the finearts. Something that is actually valued even for women. In Europe during the 19th century for example being a uneducated noble woman was not something to be proud of. Of course they weren't supposed to be too smart to outsmart the men but still... Speaking languages like French was a must back then.
As for Lady Hyegyeong: I've read some academic papers on her and they all seem to be sure the autobiography was written by her.
I like your observation about Ra On's mother being a seamstress though. It could be possible. Just like any other theory is possible. I'm still not sure if I like that the writer left this part of the story so open. But I have to take what I get. So yeah... we will never know if Ra On was actually from a noble family or not.
Yes, I realized that...
that's why I haven't said in my post that what happened in the Latin Middle Ages also happened in the Joseon period. I was just asking if it was clear that the work was written down by that lady (or in general works attributed to Korean women).
I think we start from different assumptions, when addressing the problem of education of women.
I asked the question about who wrote the autobiography down because in contrast to you, I have many doubts that the situation of women in Europe in the 19th century is comparable with what's happening in Korea in the Joseon period. For example, what you say about Europe does not even apply to all European countries in the 19th century (I come from such a country, that fails to exhibit the features you mention) So when I hear about women writing in a period in which they are oppressed (a lot), in a society that seems to exhibit features of a feudal system (or more than features of a capitalist or industrialized one), I immediately ask the question whether a work attributed to a woman was in fact written down by a woman.
If you say that scholars agree that it is written down by Lady Hyegyeong, i am not questioning that.
In fact, HY is presented as a well-educated and well-read woman, although if I remember correctly CP was surprised by her knowledge--meaning that she was somehow an exception. I know that there are even two Korean women who were philosophers, at the end of 18th century--I think they even wrote some books.
But even if it is true that there are some women who escape the societal constraints, there is also the additional question of what kind of noble women have access to education. For HY is the child of a powerful minister; moreover, Lady Hyegyeong might have also come from a powerful family, since she was the wife of the crown prince. While RO's mother, if she was nobility, she must have been very very low nobility--because the family kind of look poor. So even if she was nobility, she might not have access to education.
(I think I enjoy this topic more than I should... In fact, one of the things I loved about this drama was how problems of gender emerge from it.)
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I found the discussion about who educated RO quite interesting. I was wondering if it is so clear that the autobiography of Lady Hyegyeong is written by her (or any other work attributed to Korean women in the Josen period). I ask this because most of the works attributed to women in the Latin Middles Ages were not written down by women (an example is the autobiography of Margery Kempe--it was written down by her confessor). These works were composed by women, but the actual writing down was done by men. The works were autobiographies, mystical experience accounts, medicinal accounts based on actual experience. These works had very diverse subjects, but their composition probably did not require women to know how to read or to actually read other books. These works were based on these women's experience. But since they were not educated, writing them down was the only problem, and it was done by men. (this situation raises very interesting issues about the veracity of these accounts--since they did not know how to read or write, they did not have any way to ensure that what was written was as what was dictated.)
On the other hand, about her mother nobility. I was wondering about that. I was thinking that RO's mother is some kind of seamstress, based on episode 15. There are quite a lot of women cloths that she was working on--since RO cannot wear women cloths, her mother would have own at least 3 or 4--but these cloths even if they are not as expensive as the beautiful ones, they must have been expensive for a woman living alone. She also does embroidery, and I was thinking that she does it for selling it, because the cloth she is wearing is very plain (also she seems to wear the same cloth). So RO's mother occupation might explain the presence of that beautiful cloth that RO tries on herself (that might also explain why the mother is so very upset in that scene--it is not only about RO wearing a dress, but about wearing the dress of a client--if she damages it, it would be a problem).
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9 hours ago, Jillia said:
I guess then we have different concepts of love and being strong.
I don't think that Ra On is seeing it as a sacrifice. I think it's simple to her: she has feelings for Lee Yeong, loves him even, and to stay by his side there is only one way, to stay in the palace as a man aka as eunuch. It's the easiest solution for her - it's not even a fairytale to her. Because I think she is completely aware of what she is doing as she acknowledges this is only a temporary plan. She knows she won't stay by his side forever. She said "I want to stay a little longer". She doesn't say "I want to stay forever". That's not who Ra On is. At this point she would never think being with Lee Yeong is something for eternity.
I'm completely aware that if she would've stopped hiding it could've meant jail or execution for her. But I think this wasn't something she thought about when she made the decision to stay by Lee Yeong's side.
She knew that Yoon Sung would help her to leave the palace to live outside the palace. So I think she didn't worry about execution or anything. She had the perspective to live as a woman - something she wanted since she was a child but was always denied to her by her mother and later on she went with the flow because it was easier and she WAS Sam Nom.
So in a way it's definitely a sacrifice to give up on what Yoon Sung offered her. To live freely as a woman outside the palace. But she is willing to make that sacrifice because to her being with Lee Yeong "a little longer" is much more beautiful and precious than living alone as a woman.
And to make that decision is something that turns her into a strong character to me. If it doesn't work for you then that's okay. But I think Ra On is very strong in her own way.
Thanks. I might not have been clear. I was referring to her decision not to reveal her gender to CP until he tells her that he knows she is a woman. From @orangememory 's post I got the impression that she was referring to that moment and applauded RO for giving up her gender--she was willing to leave as a man for him. and I was thinking that you, in your reply to her, also approved of this. Since already two people shared that view, I got interested in the motivation.
I just do not think that her not divulging her gender to CP is an act of sacrifice. Instead of interpreting her keeping quiet about her gender to CP as an act of love (in the sense that she can go to such lengths for him--even living as a man for him), I think it would make more sense to think of her act as an act of egoism (she pretends to be a man just to remain close to the CP and so to indulge her love for him), However, I do not say it is an act of egoism. I think at that moment she is just confused about the best way to proceed since so many things are at stake.
On your reply now: I can agree with you on her not leaving the palace to stay with CP as an act of love (although I do not think it is quite a sacrifice, for it is not clear in what sense YS will make it possible for her to live as a woman--she might not like to be so in debt to him, if he makes that possible for her. I think she already realized that he likes her, so him doing things for her would be troublesome.).
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27 minutes ago, Jillia said:
I love your post! Because like you I find it so wonderful that Ra On was willing to live as a man to be at Lee Yeong's side no matter what. I think many don't appreciate Ra On enough as she seems the passive (HOW!?) and level-headed one in their relationship. But to sacrifice her own identity and also she always wished to live as a woman but was willing to give up on that for Lee Yeong only proves how strong she is.
Sorry for cutting your post.. I agree with what you say afterwards..
But I was wondering in what sense you think Ra Oh sacrificing herself shows that she is strong. I do not say that Ra On is passive, quite the contrary. However, as I udnerstood that episode is not about sacrificing herself, but being in a dilemma: there are too many things that she can lose by revealing her identity, not just LY, but also the whole issue of her being in the palace. She enjoys his attention, but I do not think she intends to sacrifice anything. she just does not know what to do.
But let us say that she wants to sacrifice her identity. I do not understand why you think that this is a sign of being strong. I am curious about your take on this because sacrificing just for love (when only one person does the sacrifice) does not strike me as being strong.
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3 minutes ago, ruuuuthpft said:
Dengue is not a contagious disease chingu and it can only be brought upon by a certain type of mosquito when it bit you. This causes a person to have a very high fever, rashes, nausea, vomiting etc. but a lot of injections are already available against it. Since the cast and crews are staying in a well maintained place I think the chances of them getting this disease is very low.
Thanks. I was wondering about it because I never heard about the disease (from what I read I realized that it is not contagious), but it was not clear to me whether there are injections available.
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How dangerous is this situation? I ask because I do not know exactly how dangerous the disease is.
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local-news/2016/10/18/cebu-now-state-dengue-calamity-504197
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16 minutes ago, Jillia said:
So I really love the idea that Ra On frequently visits Lee Yeong in the palace but sometimes forgets to do so when she is writing one of her books. Like that it all came back to her writing about love and a new world and to imagine now with her knowing how it is to actually BE in love makes her books most likely even more successful.
But I wonder... I never think of Ra On as a woman who would like to be carried to the palace in a palanquin to visit her love. So do you think both - Ra On and Lee Yeong - still enjoy it when Ra On is sneaking into the palace disguised as a eunuch?
8 minutes ago, in00022 said:I think they will still enjoy it .... especially CP ...i think he wouldn't mind if raon sometimes disguised as eunuch to visit him at palace since it will remind him all the good memories with her .... and the first time he is falling in love with her also when raon still being his eunuch ...
But if this were to happen, wouldn't this be a sign that she cannot fully live as a woman? I do not think that if she were to visit him, she would go as eunuch, for although there are many pleasant memories related to that attire, there were also painful memories. and now she is supposed to live like a woman, to enjoy that and not be afraid of doing that.
Moreover, I was thinking that she would proably avoid visiting him at the palace. I think the series insinuated that the life at teh palace is something to be avoided if one can.
This ties is with why RO was not made queen. There is the historical facts, but it seems to me that there is more. yesterday somebody posted something that the writer said; she was not made queen so that she can live a live as a woman. and I was thinking given what it seemed to be the life of a queen (separated from her husband, separated from her parents, with no friends, but only servants), it made sense to not make her a queen. RO liked her independence. (only recall how much she wanted to get out of the palace--she enjoyed being a eunuch because she made friends, but in the palace, LY is a king, and she is just a simple woman--tehre is too much imbalance in the power over each other. This is also related to the remark that RO made to the CP what some people referred to it as the noble idiocy (I thought it was one of the best remarks in the show). She pointed to him how much power he has over her as a ruler. Even outside the palace, he has power over her, but I think inside the palace he has more power over her. This is another reason why going to the palace would not be something that RO would like to do (unless there is a crisis).
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Maybe I will upset some people, although this is not my intention. and I am sorry if that happens.
I was thinking that the way YS died was in line with his character. To me, it seems that YS was supposed to be a character that never could make up his mind to go against his grandfather. I do not recall him doing something upfront against him. Whatever helpful thing, he did, he did it covertly (and he did many good things). Some people said that what he did was a suicide, and I tend to think that the writer intended it in this way.
I think, as viewers, we were too caught in the dramas of the other characters, and we haven't noticed sufficiently his tragic situation. Maybe, like his aunt, he also wanted to be acknowledged by his grandfather (although his grandfather did to a certain extent acknowledged him, but as I recall, he was also very dissatisfied with his nephew's choices). How many times did YS laugh in this series? he always had this air of melancholy around him.
In a way, in dying slain by the soldiers of his own grandfather, he also covered the treason he committed. since none of them was left standing, the grandfather could have never known what really happened: did YS killed them to help RO, was YS killed by the guards who betrayed him because they were allied with the rebels, were the rebels who killed them all?
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I do not remember if somebody wrote about the strategy that the CP employs in his fight to clean the court. It seemed to me that what he is doing is trying to divide the members of the Kim clan. and make them panicky. It was nice to see that the queen for the first time raising herself against the PM. I am also curious what role YS will play for until now he did not really betrayed him family. He seems to amend the mistakes of his relatives by trying to make them correct the mistakes themselves (like in the discussion with the queen, when he said to her to solve the problem of the baby). but it might be that a moment will come when he needs to take more decisive steps. and from the conversation with the CP, i am not so sure that YS will want to take them. probably because if he takes them, that will mean the end of his family. (i do not see how the queen can come clean without being accused of treason or i do not know what other charge).
so in the last episode, YS will finally have to confront his biggest fear: make the members of his clan correct the wrongs they committed.
I was also wondering about the PM. I do not quite get what his motivation is. or more precisely, whether he is motivated only by the desire that somebody of his family seats on the royal throne or it is more than that. The fact that he called a reader to tell him about the character of the future king could have been a sign that he was concerned about how suitable the future king would be. (we saw that the old king was quite useless--although in his defense, PM contributed to the state in which the king got to be).
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Did I recall it correctly that not all the scenes in the preview appear in episode 17?
I do not remember seeing the scene in which RO's mother talks with RO. Neither did I hear RO's monologue about waiting (tehre was the discussion between CP and BY, but not her thoughts).
Were these scenes in ep. 17 and I missed them?
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33 minutes ago, Grace1003 said:If there is any description I will not use for this episode, it's the word boring.
Just watching the first scene, I screamed three times to pay tribute to the three times our BY was wounded. My Mom who was beside me chided me each time I did because she was roused from her sleep.
I am anticipating that dramabeans will also not like today's episode. Not because of quality but because of preference. You and she might have the same preference...which I respect and I understand but I will not agree with the "boring" pronouncement on the drama.
Lest I be misunderstood, I want to make it clear that there is nothing else I would like than to see our YoungOn together because of their one-of-a-kind chemistry! But for that to happen and for the drama to stay true to it quality, it has to SURMOUNT THE MOUNTAIN OF OBSTACLES THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF THE CONSUMMATION OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP. WHILE YOUNG IS BRILLIANTLY OUTWITTING THE POLITICAL MACHINATIONS OF PREMIER KIM AND HIS MINIONS, THE QUEEN, AND IS STRATEGIZING A WAY TO CLOSE RANKS WITH HGN AND THE REBEL GROUP FOR THE CREATION OF THE NEW JOSEON, HE IS"SYMBOLICALLY TEARING DOWN THAT MASSIVE STEEP OF REAL OBSTACLES" TO CLAIM RAON FOR HIS OWN.
SO THE POLITICAL PLOT IS TWO PRONGED: IT'S TO REALIZE HIS DREAM FOR A NEW JOSEON AND IT'S FOR HIS PROFOUND LOVE FOR RAON.
I like your interpretation. Indeed, one of the issues that the drama put it at its center was the fact that RO could not behave as a woman. what better sign of his profound love for RO is there than his fight for a better society?
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10 minutes ago, mellinadear said:
I was wondering why the maid didn't get poisoned and then i noticed that the poison was in/outside d cup itself..u can notice the crown princess' ring turn black. That was due to her holding d poisoned cup. And since CP drank from it...voila.
Poor Eunuch Jang, he can never get rest at all.
Congratulations on the ratings(23.3%). Can we get a 25% or 30% tomorrow? We shall see.
I do not know about that. His lips probably touched the brim of the cup, so even if the poison is outside...
Hm, sorry I might have misunderstood the intention of your comment. I agree with your explanation of the poisoning. (I thought that you imply that teh CP is not however poisoned, but now reading your post again I realized that you might not imply that.)
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Some people said that the writer and the director cannot take too many liberties with the actual historical facts. I never understood the reason why. However, are there any criteria for what counts as acceptable liberties? For example, is a new elected king more acceptable than RO becoming the Queen? Historically, none of them happened, but is the audience in Korea more forgivable of one than the other?
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It also seems that the chief eunuch is not present near the king. (But maybe the scene is cut so that we do not see him.)
At the end of episode 16, when the soldiers drew their swords, the chief eunuch I think was the one that yelled that the king and the CP should be protected. I was thinking that the command was particularly cunning because he did not blow up his cover. I found it funny that he was 'masquerading' himself as their protector, when his intentions were different. To protect the cover of the chief eunuch, BY had to turn against the CP--somebody needed to be the one commanding the soldiers that saved the life of RO.
So, if the chief eunuch is not present in the palace, something must have gone very wrong in the ambush.
Or did I misunderstand the scene at the end of ep. 16?
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In the preview, the king seems to be his usual self, in fact, he seems to be better than his usual self. I was wondering why this is the case. Could it be that the king is in a better spirit because RO's father died?
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that's why I haven't said in my post that what happened in the Latin Middle Ages also happened in the Joseon period. I was just asking if it was clear that the work was written down by that lady (or in general works attributed to Korean women).
[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category
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Posted
I like a lot your point about patriotism being a personal choice. I fully agree with it.
Indeed, the problem with Eugene is that he still wants to be neutral, not to get involved in the messy politics. He wants to love AS, get revenge and probably leave as soon as possible. But the situation is so that being neutral at this moment is impossible. What made me think about this was Lee Byung Hun's way of delivering a line: in Eugene's discussion with Kyle when they drink tea, there is a line that I thought LBH should have said it as a joke: he asks Kyle what the first line of his poem is, whether it is what Kyle said about the Philippines. LBH delivers the question as if Eugene is slightly irritated with Kyle's point. Noticing the irritation, Kyle tells him to not become a dangerous man. I was wondering why Eugene would be irritated with a piece of advice that he requested. Then I realized that Eugene was unhappy with the advice: he wanted Kyle to take the pawn certificate and set Eugene free of the burden of thinking what to do with it. But Kyle returned the document to him and advised him to return it to its rightful owner. For Eugene, this means prolonging his association with the people Eugene wants to avoid. (afterwards, following upon Kyle's advice, he visits the emperor's minister and at the end of their conversation, he explains to him that coming there was an act of courage--contrast with the moment when he pawns the document and says that the little boy is again scared.)
For me, the interesting part now is how Eugene would get involved in the fight. I'm wondering whether AS would be the one to drag him in, for ideologically there is a big divide between them: he was a slave, she is an aristocrat. (AS might be open-minded, but Eugene might still think that their life experiences are vastly different and she is idealistic.) It is telling that at the end of episode 8, he does not embrace her: while AS is all in, he is not yet all in. It is not that he does not love her: the moment Eugene shows the strongest resoluteness yet is the moment he picks the gun from her and shoots himself to cover for her. It is that he is not fully behind her fight: all the time he helped other people, he did it reluctantly. (this is why Eugene's help remains a puzzle for the Gunner--although now the gunner understands Eugene's motivation: he is just in love in AS, no ulterior motives.)
At the moment, I do not see Kyle being the mentor who can get Eugene politically involved. (Kyle does not want to get involved: he wants his deployment in Joseon to be like a picnic). I have no idea who will be the new mentor, but for me, this is is the moment I looking forward to it. I'm very curious how the writer will pull it off.
On the last point you made, about Lee Wan Ik (this is the traitor, isn't it?): is it clear that he is the son of a butcher?
Thank you for your thought-provoking comments. I am very curious what you (and of course other people on the forum) think about Eugene not embracing AS at the end of episode 8.