Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kittyna]

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way Nodame cantabile has 2 movies and 2 drama series,no wonder people find Korean version inferior to Japanese version, maybe that's the reason why people find it had more musical angle. And also, if we add the movies and series of the Nodame cantabile it does have more screen time for musical performance

 

Ah - well, if you put it together like that, I'd have to compare Nodame Cantabile with a combination of Nae Il's Cantabile and any fan-made sequel that comes along with it  That's a massive difference in terms of just how much story/footage is there to begin with.

 

lol - Just kidding. I know there's just the one official K-drama, and we'll just leave it at that  

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

I do agree that there was lack of research when it comes to Korean version, I did find the musical postures of characters a bit bland , but Japanese version it was more expression and felt lively while watching it. But I think over dramatization made series of Japanese version more musical in nature.

 

I did find some of the performances in the Japanese version to be over-dramatized for my taste. But that's just for my taste: even professional musicians vary a lot in terms of how much they move (or don't) while performing. I'm just someone who prefers there to be less movement or showmanship, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. 

 

The most accurate performance for me, though, is still Secret Love Affair, since the actors were taught to actually play the excerpts you hear on screen. The director there was aiming for "100% synchronicity" - i.e. that every single note you see is what you hear, and vice-versa. And considering that we're talking about virtuosic pieces, and lead actors like Yoo Ah In and Kim Hee Ae who were not professional pianists to begin with...I have to give serious kudos to the entire production team for pulling it off.

 

And, by extension, cut Nae Il's Cantabile some slack for not having 100% synchronicity - because that was never the director's vision to begin with, as evidenced by some of the editing (where footage is slowed down while the audio still continues at tempo, for example).

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

No, there were no behind-the-scenes about struggle of musical students(I am talking about 2006 version series), it was totally about realizing potential of two main leads. But there were some scene where they show few struggles, it was limited only to the group, like finding harmony in the orchestra group for better performance, other than that there was no issue like hierarchy, school administration interference etc etc. Maybe that's where Korean version fell short, people were expecting it to have more about musical performance, which it did have on par with Japanese version, but lack of research made the series mediocre

 

I wonder if that difference reflects a difference between Japanese and Korean culture more generally: a lot of the "A vs. S" stuff in Nae Il's Cantabile seems to be common in Korean dramas, but I have a hard time imagining the conflict taken to the extent that it is in any other cultural context. Like, I'm aware that Japan is also uber-competitive like Korea is, but the whole push to uplift yourself by pushing others down (like what many of the A students end up doing, with the tacit approval of the board) seems to contradict Japan's more group-oriented image. I could be wrong, though; I'm just guessing.

 

And maybe it's because I'm biased, but I want to know: what do you think were the biggest strengths and weaknesses in the Korean version compared to the Japanese?

 

[EDIT]

 

And now I'm wondering if the situation might ever come up for Cha Yoo Jin to hit someone over the head with an empty cardboard box  Because, well, you know, he totally would  

 

(Just stumbled across this scene from the Japanese, and cracked up)

 

 

 

[kireeti2]

13 minutes ago, kittyna said:

And maybe it's because I'm biased, but I want to know: what do you think were the biggest strengths and weaknesses in the Korean version compared to the Japanese?

Direction, editing, weak story writing and usual second lead cliché. But still, it made good impression with Nodame cantabile fan circle

 

24 minutes ago, kittyna said:

 

20 minutes ago, kittyna said:

lol - Just kidding. I know there's just the one official K-drama, and we'll just leave it at that  

Thank god

28 minutes ago, kittyna said:

 

And, by extension, cut Nae Il's Cantabile some slack for not having 100% synchronicity - because that was never the director's vision to begin with, as evidenced by some of the editing (where footage is slowed down while the audio still continues at tempo, for example).

I too have read in an article , where directed wanted to do something different, but I guess in the end they could not just get new story line and in turn it might have affected the research like how to depict the conductor performance and pianist shoulder movement (that seems to be major issue with Nodame cantabile's fans ), the acting depict was in identical that of Japanese version, especially nae-il's performance was wonderful

[kittyna]

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

Direction, editing, weak story writing and usual second lead cliché. But still, it made good impression with Nodame cantabile fan circle

 

O_O - Oh, wow...well, here's hoping that Seolleim in Salzburg has met your expectations so far, then. It started off as just a continuation, but I think that, by this point, it's also become my attempt to flesh out the characters and make them three-dimensional.

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

I too have read in an article , where directed wanted to do something different, but I guess in the end they could not just get new story line and in turn it might have affected the research like how to depict the conductor performance and pianist shoulder movement (that seems to be major issue with Nodame cantabile's fans )

 

Shoulder movement, posture, etc. are - as you've pointed out - the subtle clues as to whether someone is actually playing the piano or pretending to. The full-body movement is something that I, too, thought was lacking in the piano performances in Nae Il's Cantabile: there were moments where the actors were trying to play a certain phrase or scale and the arm movement was...like, way too light or floating for it to be a realistic match to the audio. Like, even light-sounding music needs to have some oomph or force behind it, and that was missing in a number of instances. The biggest offender for that was the first Mozart duet, but I do think that subsequent attempts were better, with JW edging out Shim Eun Kyung just a tad (again, with the caveat that neither of them were classical pianists, so even as a lifelong amateur pianist myself, I didn't go into the drama expecting anything).

 

As for conducting, it's really idiosyncratic/individualized to begin with, so the actors would have actually had a lot of room to work with. Both JW and Park Bo Gum had some really good moments here in terms of movements that looked natural and in-line with the music; the moments that did appear out of sync seem to have been due to editing rather than their acting. My personal favourite conducting shot, though, has to go to PBG rather than JW: it's the opening to La Forza del Destino in Episode 16, with those three accented notes and the clean cut-off - I thought PBG absolutely nailed that there.

 

It's the other conducting student (i.e. the A Orchestra's conductor) who was lacking here, with his unrealistically over-dramatic-to-the-point-of-meaning-nothing movements, but I actually think the director was deliberately aiming for that and guided the actor accordingly.  So you can see that in the scene where Cha Yoo Jin imagines himself conducting the A Orchestra (which is also the shot that made it into all the ads and trailers), that's how JW is moving - but that's very different from Yoo Jin's actual style.

[kireeti2]

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

O_O - Oh, wow...well, here's hoping that Seolleim in Salzburg has met your expectations so far, then. It started off as just a continuation, but I think that, by this point, it's also become my attempt to flesh out the characters and make them three-dimensional.

Yeah, it did. It almost felt like sequel of the series. In the series I did not get to see the arc of cha yoo jin and nae-il, as we can see it came just before the end. So, it was refreshing to read about their life in Europe.

6 hours ago, kittyna said:

The full-body movement is something that I, too, thought was lacking in the piano performances in Nae Il's Cantabile: there were moments where the actors were trying to play a certain phrase or scale and the arm movement was...like, way too light or floating for it to be a realistic match to the audio

Nae-il's character was lacking in this part especially(playing piano), her acting was excellent,  almost overshadowed Joo won's. Joo won's acting was a bit off, but his actions like conductor and as a pianist were on par with Japanese version. So, I think if they had corrected these flaws with good writing, the series would have got decent ratings

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, it did. It almost felt like sequel of the series. In the series I did not get to see the arc of cha yoo jin and nae-il, as we can see it came just before the end. So, it was refreshing to read about their life in Europe.

 

Well, that's a relief  Even if I write mostly for my own enjoyment and according to my own imagination, I obviously still hope that you guys enjoy the results.  

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Nae-il's character was lacking in this part especially(playing piano), her acting was excellent,  almost overshadowed Joo won's. Joo won's acting was a bit off, but his actions like conductor and as a pianist were on par with Japanese version.

 

I haven't re-watched all the footage, but JW did have one pretty epicly bad moment in his piano acting during the Mozart duet. It's at this one point just before the end of the piece when, after a few flashback shots from his childhood, we see Cha Yoo Jin watching Nae Il and smiling at her. And I don't really know what happened there, but JW's hands and wrists were really floppy - like, so much so that it's obvious that he's not even playing at all  It's just for a moment, because after the next cut, the remaining shots for the final chords were better, so I'd be really curious as to just what went on there behind the scenes. It was almost like, that early in the filming, JW could either play the piano as Cha Yoo Jin or act as Cha Yoo Jin, but couldn't quite juggle both yet.

 

But while some musicians might be upset seeing stuff like that...I just burst out laughing  It just turned into an unintentionally funny moment for me.

 

JW's fake-playing was a lot more solid during the Grieg concerto, though. I like that he was able to vary his renditions of the same passage to show when he was getting into it emotionally (i.e. during rehearsals with Professor Do, his solo practice session, and the final product) or when he was just playing without expression (i.e. during rehearsals with Professor Stresemann).

 

As for his conducting, there is one thing that I could point out, but it's not so much a flaw as it is a sign of a beginner. JW has a tendency to mirror when he's conducting: i.e., his right and left hands were doing the same thing. While that can be effective if the conductor really wants to draw emphasis to something (e.g. a unison accented note, like the beginning of Eroica), JW does that almost constantly through the Rachmaninoff concerto and a good chunk of the Tchaikovsky one as well. Again, it's not wrong, but considering just how much of a role the conductor has in shaping the musicians' expression and interpretation of music, mirroring is a waste of that potential. There is one instance JW actually got it wrong, though: when, while mirroring during the Rachmaninoff, his hands accidentally crossed in front of his chest - the left and right sides of his body should be clearly separate.

 

In terms of his acting, I think JW gave it his best shot - but he was given a pretty 2-dimensional character to work with and that's not really in line with his strengths.

 

Moving on to other things: JW recently filmed a video greeting for his former high school's film festival.

 

 

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I haven't re-watched all the footage, but JW did have one pretty epicly bad moment in his piano acting during the Mozart duet. It's at this one point just before the end of the piece when, after a few flashback shots from his childhood, we see Cha Yoo Jin watching Nae Il and smiling at her. And I don't really know what happened there, but JW's hands and wrists were really floppy - like, so much so that it's obvious that he's not even playing at all  It's just for a moment, because after the next cut, the remaining shots for the final chords were better, so I'd be really curious as to just what went on there behind the scenes. It was almost like, that early in the filming, JW could either play the piano as Cha Yoo Jin or act as Cha Yoo Jin, but couldn't quite juggle both yet.

 

But while some musicians might be upset seeing stuff like that...I just burst out laughing  It just turned into an unintentionally funny moment for me.

 

JW's fake-playing was a lot more solid during the Grieg concerto, though. I like that he was able to vary his renditions of the same passage to show when he was getting into it emotionally (i.e. during rehearsals with Professor Do, his solo practice session, and the final product) or when he was just playing without expression (i.e. during rehearsals with Professor Stresemann).

 

As for his conducting, there is one thing that I could point out, but it's not so much a flaw as it is a sign of a beginner. JW has a tendency to mirror when he's conducting: i.e., his right and left hands were doing the same thing. While that can be effective if the conductor really wants to draw emphasis to something (e.g. a unison accented note, like the beginning of Eroica), JW does that almost constantly through the Rachmaninoff concerto and a good chunk of the Tchaikovsky one as well. Again, it's not wrong, but considering just how much of a role the conductor has in shaping the musicians' expression and interpretation of music, mirroring is a waste of that potential. There is one instance JW actually got it wrong, though: when, while mirroring during the Rachmaninoff, his hands accidentally crossed in front of his chest - the left and right sides of his body should be clearly separate.

 

In terms of his acting, I think JW gave it his best shot - but he was given a pretty 2-dimensional character to work with and that's not really in line with his strengths.

To be honest,  my my musical knowledge is kind of limited, if not it is at basic level, like couldn't tell the difference between violin and viola. You should take my review about Naeil's cantabile with a pinch of salt, most of review is based on heuristic, like I have read some comments, reviews and then I fused it my layman understanding of this series. I did loved the series before reading professional comments and reviews about the way leads have depicted the playing of musical instruments. I knew something was kind of off about the series, but not regarding the acting of the leads, but it mostly about the way series was edited and advancement of the plot. I had no complaints about the way Joo won did his conducting or the way he played the piano(including Shim Eun-Kyung). For me series was heart warming and enjoyable to watch, but I was disappointed by the ending, like there should have had a better ending, like the friends were sending off Yoo jin and Naeil to Europe or at least they should have made 2 seasons with 8 episodes each, one in Korea and second season in Europe, then I think it would have justified the remark. Nevertheless, it was decent one, not as bad as "My Sassy Girl", that series was way too confusing

[kittyna]

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

To be hones,  my my musical knowledge is kind of limited, if not it is at basic level, like couldn't tell the difference between violin and viola. You should take my review about Naeil's cantabile with a pinch of salt, most of review is based on heuristic, like I have read some comments, reviews and then I fused it my layman understanding of this series. I did loved the series before reading professional comments and reviews about the way leads have depicted the playing of musical instruments.

 

Same here - most of what I know about playing piano comes from personal experience, but I've only ever played just at home, for myself. I did have tests/examinations before, but not competitions (my teacher was one of the rare few who disliked them), so my knowledge of how things would work in a music program at university is patchy. The one thing I could really bring to the table, to be honest, is that the style or general school of playing that I learned is more in line with Yoo Jin's than Nae Il's: i.e., creative interpretation is allowed, but only within the confines of the score; playing classical music is about learning self-discipline; etc.

 

In contrast, my knowledge of how to play string instruments is virtually non-existent - which is why I don't comment on, say, Go Kyung Pyo's musical performance as Yoo Il Rak or Park Bo Gum's cello. In those cases - and, actually, in evaluating the conducting performances - I can only go by what I've observed watching filmed concerts and whatnot.

 

But again, all things considered, all I ask for is that what I see is somewhat related to what I hear: actual technique doesn't matter so much to me as the narrative potential (i.e. even if the actor gets things wrong, all that matters to me is that the character played that piece).

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

I knew something was kind of off about the series, but not regarding the acting of the leads, but it mostly about the way series was edited and advancement of the plot. I had no complaints about the way Joo won did his conducting or the way he played the piano(including Shim Eun-Kyung). For me series was heart warming and enjoyable to watch, but I was disappointed by the ending, like there should have had a better ending, like the friends were sending off Yoo jin and Naeil to Europe or at least they should have made 2 seasons with 8 episodes each, one in Korea and second season in Europe, then I think it would have justified the remark.

 

Regardless, I still think Nae Il's Cantabile is a heartwarming drama. I really liked each character's individual growth, and that's honestly what mattered most to me as a viewer  

 

And, well, it should be pretty obvious to everyone by now that I, too, would have liked to see the story expanded into their lives in Europe  I mean, I've got how many fics in that series now???

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I learned is more in line with Yoo Jin's than Nae Il's: i.e., creative interpretation is allowed, but only within the confines of the score; playing classical music is about learning self-discipline; etc.

Did Naeil interpreted her own music from scores in the series?! I though she played her own music, like not from the score, like music just comes to her mind and she plays them randomly, so, I thought that's she lost the competition

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I've got how many fics in that series now???

14(I know its a rhetorical question)

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Same here - most of what I know about playing piano comes from personal experience, but I've only ever played just at home, for myself. I did have tests/examinations before, but not competitions (my teacher was one of the rare few who disliked them), so my knowledge of how things would work in a music program at university is patchy. The one thing I could really bring to the table, to be honest, is that the style or general school of playing that I learned is more in line with Yoo Jin's than Nae Il's: i.e., creative interpretation is allowed, but only within the confines of the score; playing classical music is about learning self-discipline; etc.

Prior to Naeil's cantabile series, I thought music is only about learning how play an instrument and memorizing the tunes and scores. I never knew it is almost like becoming an engineer or doctor. I would like to ask you, what do you mean by competition? Is it like practicals? Or, like playing in the presence of audience? Or, like competing with your peers?

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Go Kyung Pyo's musical performance as Yoo Il Rak

His character was way funnier than Japanese version, I think it is because of more screen time

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

but I've only ever played just at home, for myself.

Every time when someone says he/she plays piano, Naeil's image pops in my mind and just start smiling like an idiot , I know in the series she was prodigy in playing piano, but her careless attitude kind of overshadows that and makes her performance funny, at least in competition she was serious

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I never knew it is almost like becoming an engineer or doctor. I would like to ask you, what do you mean by competition? Is it like practicals? Or, like playing in the presence of audience? Or, like competing with your peers?

 

I did have practical tests/exams, where it's just me, the judge (or judges at the higher levels), and the piano. But competitions are different. I think that what you see in of Nae Il's competition in the drama should be pretty close to how they work in real life: so, yes, competing against fellow students for a prize.

 

Winning competitions - especially prestigious international ones - is a quick way for young up-and-coming classical musicians to gain recognition, and that recognition can open up a ton of opportunities (e.g. easier access to major musical institutions for further education, news media coverage, social media recognition in more recent years, etc.). Is it absolutely necessary to win a competition in order to succeed? Not necessarily. But the perks of winning are why so many people try for them. It's like Professor Do says in the drama: "Every title is power."

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Did Naeil interpreted her own music from scores in the series?! I though she played her own music, like not from the score, like music just comes to her mind and she plays them randomly, so, I thought that's she lost the competition

 

 

Nae Il is an auditory learner, so she plays music according to what she hears (and what sounds good to her) rather than what's written on the score. She still plays the notes that are written there, but she tends to come up with her own personal interpretation if a pre-existing version isn't fed to her first - or, as in the case with the competition in the drama, if she lets her own emotions take over. And while that level of creative interpretation is fine as a concert performer, it doesn't work with practical tests or competitions, where students are expected to meet a specific set of standards. If the point is to rank them based on their technical skills, they need to all be doing the same thing in order for there to be any chance for fair comparison.

 

As for the music that comes to Nae Il randomly that she just plays - things like what she plays after Yoo Jin tidies her apartment, or the "Fart Song" - those are improvisations and original compositions.  She's the composer, so she can do whatever she wants, and her version will automatically be the "right" one.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

His character was way funnier than Japanese version, I think it is because of more screen time

 

Oh, Go Kyung Pyo's acting as Yoo Il Rak was undeniably awesome  I meant that I couldn't evaluate his fake violin playing  

 

And speaking of Nae Il's Cantabile, here's Preview 2 of the upcoming Seolleim in Salzburg fic:

 

Spoiler

The metal gate that squeaks and squeals during the off-season now glides open easily, its hinges freshly oiled in preparation for an influx of summer tourists. But the skies are cloudy today, the air hot and heavy with impending rain; St. Sebastian’s Cemetery is quiet and still, and I am the only person there as I step into the open courtyard.

 

Had Mozart himself been buried here, then this place would be packed even with the foul weather. But it’s just his family, and in comparison with him, they’ve all but faded away by the wayside.

 

The small family plot is just as I remember it: a cluster of markers huddled together in a prominent spot just inside of the entrance. Ignoring the larger stone dedicated to Mozart’s wife, I head straight for the one for his father, Leopold. I step up in front of the grave as close as I dare; then, setting down my bag, I sink down to my knees on the grass.

 

Nae Il had her recital a few days ago – and now, it’s my turn.

 

I’m not religious by any means, yet my hand moves of its own accord to mark the sign of the cross before drifting down to my lap. Somehow, in the silence of the graveyard – the only sounds being the chirping of birds in the trees and the distant whir of traffic drifting in from outside – the show of reverence simply feels right.

 

Ever since that first time early last year, whenever possible, I have come here to St. Sebastian’s before every single concert I’ve taken part in here in Salzburg. It’s my last moment to myself between the final rehearsal and the actual performance: the moment where, with no-one else to watch or listen, I confide to Mozart’s father the things I would much rather say to mine.

 

In the past, my prayer at this vigil has been the same: that somehow, by some twist of fate, Abeoji could see me up on stage and know what I, at long last, have become. Well, I don’t have to ask that today. Today, he’s already here, somewhere in this city, hopefully awaiting tonight’s performance with as much anticipation as I am.

 

Instead, today, my request to Leopold Mozart is for something else. Someone else.

 

The small velvet-covered box fits easily in the palm of my hand as I pull it out of the pocket in my trousers. With the overcast skies, the jeweled edelweiss on the ring is uncharacteristically dull; yet even then, what little light is available catches on it, smiling up at me so sweetly that I have no choice but to smile back.

 

I hear the sound of footsteps. Startled, I slam the ring box shut and shove it back into my pocket, swiveling around to see who’s come to join me.

 

“Eomma!”

 

She comes to a stop several paces away, looking down at me with a beatific smile. “I thought I’d find you here.”

 

Surprised as I am to see her, it takes me a moment before I scoot over to one side to let her sit down beside me. “How – how did you…?”

 

She couldn’t have found out from Nae Il. After all, Nae Il is aware that I like to be left entirely alone while I’m here.

 

Eomma shoots me a knowing look. “Since you couldn’t speak to the man himself, it figures that you’d find an alternative.”

 

The sky doesn’t change, yet it feels darker all the same. “Eomma….”

 

“But enough about that,” she answers, shrugging dismissively as she rallies herself together. “At least he’s actually here this time – that’s what you wanted, isn’t it?”

 

“Mm.”

 

We stay together in silence for a long moment, but then Eomma gestures at the hand in my lap. “What were you looking at just now?”

 

I round on her, blinking in surprise. “N-nothing.”

 

“It certainly didn’t look like ‘nothing,’” she retorts, a knowing smirk growing on her face. “Come on, Yoo Jin-ah: I saw that smile.”

 

I shake my head.

 

“Wae? Don’t you trust me?”

 

Not with any surprise plans, I don’t. And considering that she already knows that about me, I’m surprised she’s even asking me at all.

 

Sure enough, after yet another moment’s staring wordlessly at each other, she concedes. “Alright, then,” she says as she stands up, “you keep your secrets. If it’s something I’m allowed to know, I’m sure you’ll let me in on it in due time.”

 

After I, too, have scrambled to my feet, Eomma gives me yet another indulgent smile, clasping one hand onto my shoulder.

 

“Gwenchana, Yoo Jin-ah,” she says, giving me a firm, reassuring squeeze. “Everything will be alright.”

 

There is a strange faraway look in her eyes, as though she’s not only thinking about tonight’s concert, but some point beyond as well. But before I could ask her or try to figure out more, she turns around and heads back for the gate, calling out an invitation for me to join her indoors for a coffee before the rain starts.

 

“Ne, Eomma!”

 

I linger in the cemetery until she has disappeared through the gate and around the corner. Then, turning back to Leopold Mozart’s grave one last time, I touch a hand to the dark cool weather-beaten stone.

 

In Nae Il’s eyes, I know I’m the Robert Schumann to her Clara, and it is in that capacity that I’ll propose tonight.

 

But until then, while I’m up on that stage, let me be my father’s beloved Wolfgang instead.

 

And, moving on to other things, we've got JW's coffee order on Instagram.

 

 

Which leads me to another quick-fire interactive question: What would you imagine to be a typical coffee drink for any (or all) of JW's drama characters? Americano? Instant? Maybe someone's more a tea person instead? Anything goes - so feel free to share.

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

What would you imagine to be a typical coffee drink for any (or all) of JW's drama characters? Americano? Instant? Maybe someone's more a tea person instead? Anything goes - so feel free to share.

Well, Joo won himself in many occasions made clear that he likes to drink coffee, like it is literally his hobby. So, I think his characters would also rely on coffee to cope with their work. But except for Ma jun, I think rest of joo won's characters are coffee type. Since Ma jun is a chaebol(like from rich family), and if we look at the dramas, people from rich families always prefer to have tea than coffee.

Coming to rest of his characters, I think Park Si-on and Kim Tae-Hyun would prefer instant coffee because it is readily available and they have to go to work in short notice, so , I guess they would rely on instant coffee to cope with their work.

Hwang Tae-Hee doesn't like anything sweet, so, I guess he would prefer black coffee with no sugar, to give Baek Ja-Eun company, who also likes to drink caramel Macchiato

And as per my limited knowledge coffee did not entered Korea until 19th century, so, we can rule out Gyun Woo and Lee Kang-To

Ha Gil-Ro and Cha Yoo Jin have different professions, but those professions demand to stay up late at night in some cases, like Gil-Ro is a spy and Yoo-Jin always wants to improve his musical skills, so, he ends up practicing all night. I see these two choosing from wide range of options of coffee types, but if I had to narrow the options, I think Gil-Ro will try Dalgona, since it is trending and I see him more like keeping up with the trends. And Cha Yoo-Jin will go for Espresso or Cappuccino

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Well, Joo won himself in many occasions made clear that he likes to drink coffee, like it is literally his hobby.

 

Hm - I wonder if he has a standard order, or if he likes to change things up, then  

 

Anyway, just stopping by with my answers to the question: What would you imagine to be a typical coffee drink for any (or all) of JW's drama characters?

 

Generally speaking, I think I can split them into three broad categories, but I'll also go into some specifics as well.

 

1. More Tea than Coffee - Gyun Woo, Lee Kang To

 

The issue here, as @kireeti2 already pointed out, is availability. Coffee was only introduced into what's now Korea during the final years of the Joseon era, so we can pretty easily place Gyun Woo firmly in tea-drinking territory (actually, in My Sassy Girl, the tea house is a parody of modern coffee shops rather than anything actually historical/traditional).

 

As for Lee Kang To, coffee actually was around during his time - it was available to the elite right at the tail end of the Joseon dynasty, and the Japanese did expand on that somewhat by introducing coffeehouses (along with other Westernized infrastructure and amenities) in urban areas. However, it was probably uncommon for average citizens to drink coffee: I do imagine that Kang To would have access to it at the police precinct (there's this whole joke focused around Shunji sending Kang To for iced coffee at one point), but when he's on his own, he's probably still a tea person, just by force of habit.

 

2. Quick, Cheap, and Convenient - Gu Ma Jun, Hwang Tae Hui, Kim Tae Hyun

 

These three would be the standard instant/brewed coffee crowd - because instant coffee (i.e. those little packets already containing powdered creamer and sugar) is huge in Korea's office/business culture. It's the thing that people reach for when they just want a quick break from work or a quick burst of caffeine, and I think these three characters would be the most likely to opt for that on-the-go lifestyle. Just as importantly (since we have a few more workaholics down below), these three are the ones who probably wouldn't care about the quality of their coffee: as long as it's there, and it wakes them up, then that's okay.

 

A few more character-specific notes.

- I don't remember whether Ma Jun or his colleagues drank coffee at the bakery, so I'm referring to when he switches to an office job towards the end. 

- One of the big draws of instant coffee for Tae Hyun would be that it's cheap. He's never going to be the type to splurge on a coffeehouse drink, even if it's available to him - I imagine the only time he would get something like, say, an Americano would be if a friend or colleague offers to treat him. Another thing I imagine he'd do is swipe packets of instant coffee from the doctors' break room to use at home (drawing inspiration here from IU's character in My Ahjussi, who similarly lives below the poverty line with massive debts).

 

3. Connoisseur or Willing to Experiment - Park Si On, Han Gil Ro, Cha Yoo Jin

 

You may be surprised to see Si On here - and I do think he'd be the instant coffee sort of guy while at work. But I can also see him open to trying new things at a coffee shop, and having an affinity for sweet or specialty drinks (e.g. mocha, caramel macchiato, etc.). That would be in line with his childlike tastes.

 

Han Gil Ro and Cha Yoo Jin are definitely the big coffeehouse patrons out of all 8 characters. Gil Ro likes it for the socialization and, like what I just said for Si On, he's the type who'd like to experiment and try new things (good point on the Dalgona coffee there, @kireeti2).

 

As for Cha Yoo Jin, he doesn't change his order all that much while he's in Seoul. While he does become his mom's guinea pig for specialty drinks (like that black tea coffee), when he's on his own, he seems to prefer espresso and variations thereof. Basically, for him, the stronger the better: he's usually ordering doubles or even triples(!), which freaks his mom out.  Once he gets to Europe, though, things change. He's definitely still the brewed coffee/espresso guy at home, but when he's at a coffeehouse, he's trying different things. (Seriously, if you haven't done so already, look up how many different coffee beverages there are, just distinct to Austria - it's a little nuts )

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

good point on the Dalgona coffee there, @kireeti2

Was Dalgona famous before lock down or quarantine ? Because I got to know about it during the pandemic

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

You may be surprised to see Si On here - and I do think he'd be the instant coffee sort of guy while at work. But I can also see him open to trying new things at a coffee shop, and having an affinity for sweet or specialty drinks (e.g. mocha, caramel macchiato, etc.). That would be in line with his childlike tastes.

Interesting take. But I never saw Si-on as guy who indulges in beverages, since he has no affect of alcohol on him, I hardly think he will be drawn towards caffeine, since caffeine is also a type of addictive beverage like alcohol. I do agree he might give a it a try, if Cha yoon seon ask him to try

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Was Dalgona famous before lock down or quarantine ? Because I got to know about it during the pandemic

 

That's a good question - I actually don't know. I know that dalgona is actually a classic Korean street food snack in its original candy form, and I think whipped coffee drinks have been around for a long time (or, at least, I remember seeing references to them on TV when I was little). But the idea of it taking off in Korea and being called "dalgona coffee"? I'm not sure.

 

Maybe it was around before the pandemic, but only became super-popular once everyone was stuck at home and actually had enough time on their hands to make it? I don't know.

 

Just for reference: a short video clip of the dalgona candy (note: the video says it's sugar + oil, but commenters say it's actually sugar + baking soda).

 

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Interesting take. But I never saw Si-on as guy who indulges in beverages, since he has no affect of alcohol on him, I hardly think he will be drawn towards caffeine, since caffeine is also a type of addictive beverage like alcohol

 

I'm not sure if Si On would be in it for the caffeine to begin with, actually, since caffeine may have different effects on people with autism compared to the general population. I just think he's interested in coffee for the taste, or smell, or just because everyone else is drinking it (i.e. it's something he'd do to fit in), etc.

 

Or maybe he's more a hot chocolate kind of guy  That works, too.

 

Not much else to add today, save for this Instagram Story update:

 

 

 

[kittyna]

Just popping by to start up Round Two of my ongoing tournament-style poll: JW Drama Characters as Dads

 

So, the whole points system thing I used in Round One...didn't really work out as expected  In hindsight, it was 1) confusing, and 2) not particularly effective at minimizing ties (like, I really had to force myself to change my own ratings to prevent that from happening). So this time, we're going back to the old "pick a winner for each question" style.

 

But before I do that, here are the winners from Round One:

 

Spoiler

Park Si On

Kim Tae Hyun

Hwang Tae Hui

Cha Yoo Jin

 

Let's move on to Round Two!

 

Spoiler

Which JW Drama Character would be the Best Dad? You Decide!

 

Rules/How This Works

For each character in the following pairs, pick the one that you think would be the better dad. No real standards - what you think makes a good dad or not is entirely up to you.

 

Again, feel free to elaborate on your responses at any time, but just casting votes with no explanation is also fine.

 

Round Two

 

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Kim Tae Hyun

 

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Hwang Tae Hui

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

One thing I did think worked better with Round One compared to the previous poll was setting a deadline for votes. So, you guys will have until Sunday, June 7 to send in your responses - I will jump in with mine whenever I feel like it  

[kireeti2]

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Kim Tae Hyun

God! This  is a tough pairing,both have lot of similarities. Like, both had traumatic childhood, both have/had terrible fathers,both are doctors and partners with strong personality.

So here it goes

Park si-on- I choose Si-on, because I think he has more family/friends support system, than Kim Tae-Hyun. Kim Tae-Hyun does have family/friends support system too, but none of them might not have any insights on raising kids, except the head nurse, but the position of Han Yeo-Jin might not permit or possible for the friends to be close with the couple, no matter how close they are with them. I general think a father can be better if he has support system from friends/family, and also harmonious relation with his partner, especially in parenting partners should be on same page. And I think si-on and yoon-seon will be on same page while raising their kids. But Tae-Hyun and Yeo-jin might not be, due to different family history, and the way they were raised, Yeo-jin is basically raised as a princess and in the drama it was shown that all the help in the house use to be afraid of her even when she was 10 years old, so, that attitude can be reflected while parenting and she might disagree with Tae-Hyun on parenting matters. I think a father to be better also depends on his open mindedness, si-on is more open minded than Tae-Hyun, since he listens and ponders to what yoon-seo advises him and Tae-Hyun often does the opposite what Yeo-jin wants. And both si-on and yoon-seon had head start regarding raising kids, since they both are pediatrician and they job depends them to be more understanding in helping kids both emotionally and physically, Kim Tae-Hyun and Han Yeo-jin might have hard time in the beginning (I almost forgot, si-on's mom will be big help raising the kids since she had missed that chance with si-on,so, I expect her to play an important role)

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Hwang Tae Hui

B - Cha Yoo Jin

Cha-Yoo-jin- This pair is tough as well. Since both are hot heads and have anger issues, but with help from partners I see them making into better fathers. But if I have to choose best one from them, I will go with Hwang Tae Hui, again, also here I am giving weight to the support system in raising kids and Tae-Hui's support system in not only better than Cha Yoo-jin's but also out numbers it. Tae Hui's mom is going to be big help in raising kids and whole family will do their part in order for tae-hui to be a better father. Yoo-jin have also equally good chances of being better father, but his obsession with music might be a drawback. Nae-il might make up for it but still this makes him a slightly less better father than Tae-Hui. But, I do think yoo-jin will be fun and more understanding father than Tae-Hui, since Tae-Hui does not express his feeling very well, and might have communication problem with kids. So, I will go with Cha Yoo jin

 

P.S- I think my cultural bias might have been seen in the answer, giving importance to family structure and implicitly saying that single parents or parents with no family might not be good at raising kids. And I completely do not subscribe to such idea, Parents can mess up even if they have family support to raise kids and sometimes single parents have done excellent job in raising kids, than the parents with family support system. So, support system might play a role in good parenting, but it is no sufficient to be good parent, it boils down to individual's willingness to change, understand , trust towards their child

[kittyna]

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

God! This  is a tough pairing,both have lot of similarities. Like, both had traumatic childhood, both have/had terrible fathers,both are doctors and partners with strong personality.

 

I know, right? Park Si On and Kim Tae Hyun - so similar, yet so completely different at the same time.  

 

You did bring up some points I hadn't thought about before, so we'll have to see where this ends up going.

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Cha-Yoo-jin- This pair is tough as well. Since both are hot heads and have anger issues, but with help from partners I see them making into better fathers. But if I have to choose best one from them, I will go with Hwang Tae Hui, again, also here I am giving weight to the support system in raising kids and Tae-Hui's support system in not only better than Cha Yoo-jin's but also out numbers it. Tae Hui's mom is going to be big help in raising kids and whole family will do their part in order for tae-hui to be a better father. Yoo-jin have also equally good chances of being better father, but his obsession with music might be a drawback. Nae-il might make up for it but still this makes him a slightly less better father than Tae-Hui. But, I do think yoo-jin will be fun and more understanding father than Tae-Hui, since Tae-Hui does not express his feeling very well, and might have communication problem with kids. So, I will go with Cha Yoo jin

 

 A bit of thinking out loud here, huh? You started with Hwang Tae Hui, then changed your mind partway  

 

Clearly, neither of these are going to be easy choices for me, either.  

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think my cultural bias might have been seen in the answer, giving importance to family structure and implicitly saying that single parents or parents with no family might not be good at raising kids. And I completely do not subscribe to such idea, Parents can mess up even if they have family support to raise kids and sometimes single parents have done excellent job in raising kids, than the parents with family support system. So, support system might play a role in good parenting, but it is no sufficient to be good parent, it boils down to individual's willingness to change, understand , trust towards their child

 

That's perfectly fine: I did say that what actually constituted a "good father" was up to you. And this gives me a look into what different people value or prioritize in parenting, which also helps me to think about the drama characters in greater depth.

 

As for me...I think my big thing would be that a father should be able to guide his children to have the ethical values and morals that they'll need in real-life society. I know that not all parents agree on what exactly those morals should be - but I think a father should raise his children to be kind, respectful, honest, and hardworking people, as opposed to emphasizing material success (e.g. grades, career, reputation, etc.). Which, I'm well aware, already rules out some of the dads from JW's dramas.

 

I also think a father should be able to practice what he preaches: even if he means well, if he can't live by the same values he wants his children to have, his teaching won't be effective.

 

This is why, in my responses thus far, I've often talked about things like balancing affection and discipline, or having the right priorities in choosing when/how to discipline a child (e.g. scolding a kid for cheating on a test is okay, but scolding a kid for getting less than perfect when they already tried their best isn't).

[kireeti2]

44 minutes ago, kittyna said:

 A bit of thinking out loud here, huh? You started with Hwang Tae Hui, then changed your mind partway  

Lol!! You are spot on. (I knew you would figure it out) .Actually I was going to choose Hwang Tae Hui, but when I re-read my my answer I changed my opinion, I guess literature do shape ones opinion, even if it is written by that very same person

 

50 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I think my big thing would be that a father should be able to guide his children to have the ethical values and morals that they'll need in real-life society.

Indeed, I think those ethical values and morals should also change with time and need be balanced with realism, after all the very same ethical and moral values can sometimes make a person dysfunctional(not all the times, but sometimes), because the world is not always black and white in nature. Maybe teach the kid to find his own golden mean to have balanced approach, like Kim Tae-Hyun in yong-pal, this character of Joo won was by far has best balance both flexible morality and guided by ethical values(like basic values of not killing someone). I had theory that, the reason was his interference  towards Yeo-jin actions were partly driven by realism, like she wanted to rule things by evoking fear among his adversaries and on her subordinates, that's not a good strategy in long run and not at all sustainable, because at some point of the time in your life you'll become weak and at that point you'll end up with more enemies than friends then you are in big trouble, that is something I have learnt from history, "One who rules by fear, lives in fear"

[kittyna]

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I had theory that, the reason was his interference  towards Yeo-jin actions were partly driven by realism, like she wanted to rule things by evoking fear among his adversaries and on her subordinates, that's not a good strategy in long run and not at all sustainable, because at some point of the time in your life you'll become weak and at that point you'll end up with more enemies than friends then you are in big trouble, that is something I have learnt from history, "One who rules by fear, lives in fear"

 

Yeah, that's what I thought about Kim Tae Hyun's actions as well, especially his attempt to rescue Han Do Joon: he did it in hopes that that could prevent Yeo Jin from sinking even deeper into her bitterness and resentment. Partially because of the consequences of ruling by fear, but also because, in Tae Hyun's mind, killing and vengeance were just plain wrong.

 

And now, here I am with my own votes for the poll  

 

Spoiler

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Kim Tae Hyun

 

It's this idea of the "golden mean" that makes me lean more in Tae Hyun's favour.

 

Park Si On is incredibly kind with a good heart; but while that's one of his greatest strengths, it's also one of his biggest weaknesses. Si On thinks of people and the world in relatively simple black-and-white terms, and although he does show signs of broadening his perspective by the end, I don't think that core part of his nature is ever going to change 100%. He has difficulty understanding the thoughts and intentions behind people's actions, so he tends to default to assuming that everyone is good unless they are really over-the-top outwardly bad. That can make teaching and raising children difficult in the long run: he can only see the actions and whether those actions are good or bad, but not times when the intention overrides the outward action (e.g. lying to protect someone, or false displays of friendship). So I expect there might be a number of misunderstandings between Si On and his children - or, if not, then between his children and their peers. Cha Yoon Seo would step in to help sort out some of those shades of grey, but I'm thinking strictly about Si On as an individual.

 

As for Kim Tae Hyun, he's also not going to have an easy time of it, but for a different reason. I think that, just as people, he'd know what he should teach his kids - but as hugely public figures and as potential heirs of a massive conglomerate...yeah, he's kinda lost there  Like @kireeti2 already pointed out, it's quite likely that Tae Hyun and Yeo Jin would have different expectations of their kids, and thus different opinions on how to raise them to get the results they (i.e. the parents) want. So there might be some areas where Tae Hyun would be lax while Yeo Jin would be strict, and vice-versa - they'd need to work that out themselves. But again, just as an individual parent, I think Tae Hyun has a clear sense of what constitutes a good person, and he'd take all the steps necessary to make sure his kids end up growing in that direction.

 

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Hwang Tae Hui

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

Again, a very close contest, but I'm also going to go with Yoo Jin here. To be fair, both Yoo Jin and Tae Hui have IQs that outweigh their EQs - both struggle with understanding other people's feelings as well as communicating their own. However, when push comes to shove, I think that Yoo Jin is just ever so slightly more of a feel-er than Tae Hui is: both because he's a musician (and one that does, when given licence to do so, like to put his emotions into his work), but also because it's his sensitivity and vulnerability that made him a target for his father's emotional abuse and neglect (which means that somewhere underneath that gruff exterior, he's got to be a caring and sensitive person). So, if we think about it that way, Yoo Jin has a slightly stronger incentive than Tae Hui to actually look out for his kids' mental and emotional health - and, if nothing else, spending time with Nae Il's made him a lot better at actually dealing with it.

 

That's not to say that Tae Hui would be a bad parent, by any means. I see him as being the "provider" sort of a dad: the one who shows his love for his family by acting as the main breadwinner, helping with difficult tasks around the house, etc. But he's also the type of person who tends to become preoccupied by his work.

 

(Which is funny, because I actually don't think that about Cha Yoo Jin - like, he's a workaholic, but he's too Type A to ever let his other duties or responsibilities slide just because of his music. That's Nae Il.)

 

Uh-oh - looks like we've got another tie. But this is my honest answer to the question, so I don't want to change it. People still have until Sunday, June 7 to cast their vote - but in the meantime, I'll see what I can come up with in terms of a tie-breaker, just in case.  

[kittyna]

If anyone thinks it's inappropriate for me to post my usual stuff on this forum today because of all the more important things happening in the wider world, please forgive me. But I still want to share something anyway, for those whose mental and emotional states have been strained and who want or need some more lighthearted fare.

 

In short: the 10th anniversary of JW's drama debut is coming soon, and already, the fan tributes have started to crop up online.

 

 

 

However, I am honestly wondering: is it just me, or has #BlackoutTuesday been practically non-existent in Korea and the Hallyu fandom? Like, I've seen posts for it everywhere in all the other broad circles/topics I follow on Instagram (e.g. pages for cultural institutions, historical costume/period drama fans, Disney, classical musicians, etc.), coming from users based in North America (obviously), Europe and Australia. But not on anything related to Hallyu: not from artists, not from fan accounts, etc. Like, my usual look at the #joowon tag on Instagram looks...entirely ordinary? Why is that? Does anyone know?

 

Also, I did get a good deal of writing done for the next Seolleim in Salzburg fic these past few days. It's not stuff that I can actually post an official preview because of spoilers, but just for the record: I did finally get to the proposal  No surprise on the outcome (since, you know, Nae Il is Nae Il and she would've said "Yes" from Day One), but you'll have to wait for the finished fic to discover how exactly Cha Yoo Jin does it in my own imaginary universe.