Illegal Downloading Of Music, Movies, Etc.

[MakahaMusic]

I'm curious, do you watch anything online?

Ever ran a stop sign in your life?

Ever cheated on a game?

I understand where you're coming from, but you got to realize that not everyone live by your moral belief. Music to you is something that's a passion... not a hobby. You're a songwriter, and thus... you want to make a living out of music. To us, listening to music is a hobby... it's not something we plan to make money out of, and it's not something that we care deeply about. You're like a vegetarian preaching to people not to eat meat. Yes... killing animal is wrong, but it is to you, not to us. If you want to make money and feel like illegal downloading is preventing you from profiting, perhaps you need to change your occupation. Why do people have to change the things they do just for your sake? You want to make money, and people want to save money. If you're making music because you love it, why are you charging people for it?

well to answer your questions

no, and I don't watch TV very much, except sometimes the Discovery Channel, History Channel, and National Geographic

I may have by accident

I never played organized sports, so if that's what you mean by cheating on a game, no

and I'm not focusing on someone's past, if you've downloaded in the past, it's in the past, just stop it in the future....

I hope I didn't sound like everyone versus me, I was talking about all songwriters, forget about me personally. I visit songwriter forums sometimes and songwriters are distraught at what's happened to the music industry.

and your point doesn't make sense. I want to make money and people want to save money. If you go to a store and pick up a piece of candy and walk out without paying, you want to save money and the store owner wants to make money. You're still wrong.

wrong is wrong. Why do you think it's called ILLEGAL downloading.

Like I said before, the bad people will continue to download no matter what anyone says. For people with a good heart, I think if they look in the mirror and really think about what they are doing, they know it's wrong and they should stop.

If you are doing something that is hurting someone's livelihood, it's wrong, no matter how you slice it....

As I mentioned before, look at Hollywood movies, they sometimes spend $100 million to make a movie and then it gets pirated as soon as it hits theaters. How the heck are they suppose to make their money back??

Eventually they won't make any high budget movies anymore, because it won't make economic sense.

So not are you only hurting the film industry and music industry, you are hurting everyone else, by eventually reducing the amount of quality music and movies. I suspect eventually they will be no more pure songwriters anymore. It's already happening now, publishers in Nashville are cutting their staff writers.

Here's an article about what's happening to pure songwriters:

http://music-tech-policy.blogspot.com/2009...rnes-talks.html

Read that article, and I think you'll agree with me that in the long run, illegal downloaders are only hurting themselves and everyone because the quality of songwriting will go down, more and more over time.....

[Guest hihihi]

I'm curious, do you watch anything online?

Ever ran a stop sign in your life?

Ever cheated on a game?

I understand where you're coming from, but you got to realize that not everyone live by your moral belief. Music to you is something that's a passion... not a hobby. You're a songwriter, and thus... you want to make a living out of music. To us, listening to music is a hobby... it's not something we plan to make money out of, and it's not something that we care deeply about. You're like a vegetarian preaching to people not to eat meat. Yes... killing animal is wrong, but it is to you, not to us. If you want to make money and feel like illegal downloading is preventing you from profiting, perhaps you need to change your occupation. Why do people have to change the things they do just for your sake? You want to make money, and people want to save money. If you're making music because you love it, why are you charging people for it?

dude that is a really bad comparison. Instead of comparing music downloading with being a vegetarian, why dont you compare it with something a bit closer... like stealing your neighbours tv? I dont see how its OK steal other peoples music. because you dont want to buy it. its not even like its that expensive.

"If you're making music because you love it, why are you charging people for it?" oh yeah and food automatically appears whenever you feel like it plus a house will buy itself for you and we have pixie wings and dragon tales. because i like my job, even though it doesnt earn much because of people like you. yeahhhh. Stealing is bad. Admit it~~~~ if everyone used your logic there would be hardly any music left because the only time people would make music is in their spare time for fun. Also pop artists would disappear altogether not to mention most of the music out would be really really really bad with the good artists making their comebacks once every 20 years.

[Guest dolcedor.]

what are you talking about??

Songwriters don't get any revenue from concert ticket sales!!!

which is what I was talking about in that particular post.....

What you are referring to is statutory rate, and I mentioned it in one of my previous posts. And the statutory rate is for CDs. If they're not selling CDs because of piracy, songwriters are being affected. As I mentioned in a previous post, songwriter Lamont Dozier said in an interview his royalties have been cut in half by illegal downloads.

Yes I know songwriters get performance royalties also, for anything in film, TV, radio, etc. I got a placement for one of my songs on the ABC TV soap opera "One Life To Live" and I got my royalty check from ASCAP, which keeps track of performances on TV, radio, etc. But I've made 0$ from downloads, CD sales etc.

Again Lamont Dozier said his royalties were cut in half, so illegal downloads are hurting songwriters.....

Err, I never said songwriters get revenue from ticket sales. Where did I say that? o.0 I mean there are song-writers that get a percentage of the gross sales, but not all of them do. If you're a writer that gets a percentage of the gross, and the CD doesn't move a single unit, then yeah, you won't see any money. Yeah. But a lot of writers get a pre-determined amount for songs that wind up on albums, plus royalties on top of that. This pre-determined amount is, well... pre-determined, and it varies according to the songwriter and the label and what they negotiated. So CD sales don't affect that part. What you're saying is that "free downloads don't do a thing for the songwriter", which isn't exactly true if they've already got their cheque just for submitting the song. That is all I'm saying.

Anyway, of course I do know that illegal downloading hurts the music industry in general though. I'm someone who downloads music, but I also buy physical CDs if I like the album enough. For me personally, illegal downloading has encouraged me to buy more CDs, which I haven't done in the past. However, I know I'm in the minority. lol.

Anyway, I don't think this problem can be remedied by questioning people's sense of morals, because that is something that is subjective. They have addressed the problem ~somewhat~ by pushing digital single sales in recent years, so at least there's something positive. lol.

It's the recession (well in the UK), no one can afford to buy them anymore. Rofl.

I find it wrong, but that would make me a hypocrit. If I went out one day and went, "I'm not going to download any music at all and just buy it..."

I would have about 3 cds. ;___; I download it cause I don't have the money to spare for it, to be quite frank.

The recession has nothing to do with declining album sales. This was a problem that arose way before the recession hit.

As I mentioned before, look at Hollywood movies, they sometimes spend $100 million to make a movie and then it gets pirated as soon as it hits theaters. How the heck are they suppose to make their money back??

Well, the music and film industry are not really comparable. Hollywood movies still make millions and millions. See, there's a big difference between pirating movies and pirating music--with music, you can get similar quality to an authentic CD. On the other hand, when you download a new movie off of bittorent, it's typically filmed off of someone's camera. Which means the quality is bad. Which in turn means that people will STILL go to see the movie in theatres. Plus, going to the movies is a social event, which is why people still pay to see movies, and why the film industry will probably be okay for a while.

So yes, movies are being pirated, but it's not as extreme as what's happening in the music industry.

illegal downloaders are only hurting themselves and everyone because the quality of songwriting will go down, more and more over time.....

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind at all if singers who aren't song-writers are weeded out because of this. Then the Britneys and the Rihannas and the Mileys of the world can finally disappear from radio.

[MakahaMusic]

I know it is wrong but I have and will continue to download music.

I do spend money to buy albums I like.

I will admit that I have probably spent thousands of dollars on cds, and ITunes downloads.

you're okay dude....no guilt

you bought albums and itunes downloads, and spent lots of money like me

I was referring to illegal downloads, not legal downloads like itunes....there's no shame in legal downloads

[Guest PhuongNguyen]

well to answer your questions

no, and I don't watch TV very much, except sometimes the Discovery Channel, History Channel, and National Geographic

I may have by accident

I never played organized sports, so if that's what you mean by cheating on a game, no

and I'm not focusing on someone's past, if you've downloaded in the past, it's in the past, just stop it in the future....

I hope I didn't sound like everyone versus me, I was talking about all songwriters, forget about me personally. I visit songwriter forums sometimes and songwriters are distraught at what's happened to the music industry.

and your point doesn't make sense. I want to make money and people want to save money. If you go to a store and pick up a piece of candy and walk out without paying, you want to save money and the store owner wants to make money. You're still wrong.

wrong is wrong. Why do you think it's called ILLEGAL downloading.

Like I said before, the bad people will continue to download no matter what anyone says. For people with a good heart, I think if they look in the mirror and really think about what they are doing, they know it's wrong and they should stop.

If you are doing something that is hurting someone's livelihood, it's wrong, no matter how you slice it....

As I mentioned before, look at Hollywood movies, they sometimes spend $100 million to make a movie and then it gets pirated as soon as it hits theaters. How the heck are they suppose to make their money back??

Eventually they won't make any high budget movies anymore, because it won't make economic sense.

So not are you only hurting the film industry and music industry, you are hurting everyone else, by eventually reducing the amount of quality music and movies. I suspect eventually they will be no more pure songwriters anymore. It's already happening now, publishers in Nashville are cutting their staff writers.

Here's an article about what's happening to pure songwriters:

http://music-tech-policy.blogspot.com/2009...rnes-talks.html

Read that article, and I think you'll agree with me that in the long run, illegal downloaders are only hurting themselves and everyone because the quality of songwriting will go down, more and more over time.....

Of course downloading music is illegal... of course it's wrong... but at the end of the day... it's a fast and easy method to get something; and who doesn't want that? If you visit youtube or any other website, chances are... 90% of the stuff that is on there is copyrighted. While downloading may be illegal, it open up a window of opportunity to the artist. Obviously, I'm in a Korean forum so I'm interested in the culture. For me to be able to watch a Korean drama without it being illegal, I'm going to have to wait for the actual dvd release and pay 100$ just to watch a show that I don't even know if it's good or not. For me to be able to listen to k-pop without it being illegal, I'm going to have to blindly buy an album in which I don't even know if it's good or not. It's not as if k-pop is widely available in America where I can just turn on my tv and check it out, or turn on my radio and hear DBSK.

I don't download things... I watch things online, in which many people also frown upon; but I suppose at the end of the day, I rather do that then not be able to watch my dramas or listen to my k-pop at all. I'm curious... since you're in a k-pop forum... how do you listen to your kpop music or watch your kpop drama? Do you actually go out there and buy it blindly? Without having a single clue as to whether you'll like it or not? So do you actually fork out 100$ for a drama that you haven't even seen?

Yes, stealing is still stealing, no matter how much excuses I can come up with. I'm not trying to justify my actions... but do realize that the world isn't black and white. No one is a total saint and no one is totally evil either. You're making it sound as if those who download music doesn't have a heart and goes around and kill people; and I don't agree with that.

dude that is a really bad comparison. Instead of comparing music downloading with being a vegetarian, why dont you compare it with something a bit closer... like stealing your neighbours tv? I dont see how its OK steal other peoples music. because you dont want to buy it. its not even like its that expensive.

"If you're making music because you love it, why are you charging people for it?" oh yeah and food automatically appears whenever you feel like it plus a house will buy itself for you and we have pixie wings and dragon tales. because i like my job, even though it doesnt earn much because of people like you. yeahhhh. Stealing is bad. Admit it~~~~ if everyone used your logic there would be hardly any music left because the only time people would make music is in their spare time for fun. Also pop artists would disappear altogether not to mention most of the music out would be really really really bad with the good artists making their comebacks once every 20 years.

I brought up the vegetarian issue not to compare the situation, but to compare the "point of view". While vegetarian thinks that it's cruel and inhumane to eat meat, other people may just view it as a food source, and nothing wrong with that. Yes... stealing is wrong. But isn't murder wrong also? Well, that's what vegeterian are thinking when someone is eating meat... they consider it as murder. I don't believe that I'm actually "truly stealing" when I'm watching a show online; and I don't actually think I'm a murderer just because an animal had to die because of me. Other may view it differently, but from my perspective, I don't see it that way.

Get over it.

[MakahaMusic]

what are you talking about??

Songwriters don't get any revenue from concert ticket sales!!!

which is what I was talking about in that particular post.....

What you are referring to is statutory rate, and I mentioned it in one of my previous posts. And the statutory rate is for CDs. If they're not selling CDs because of piracy, songwriters are being affected. As I mentioned in a previous post, songwriter Lamont Dozier said in an interview his royalties have been cut in half by illegal downloads.

Yes I know songwriters get performance royalties also, for anything in film, TV, radio, etc. I got a placement for one of my songs on the ABC TV soap opera "One Life To Live" and I got my royalty check from ASCAP, which keeps track of performances on TV, radio, etc. But I've made 0$ from downloads, CD sales etc.

Again Lamont Dozier said his royalties were cut in half, so illegal downloads are hurting songwriters.....

Err, I never said songwriters get revenue from ticket sales. Where did I say that? o.0 I mean there are song-writers that get a percentage of the gross sales, but not all of them do. If you're a writer that gets a percentage of the gross, and the CD doesn't move a single unit, then yeah, you won't see any money. Yeah. But a lot of writers get a pre-determined amount for songs that wind up on albums, plus royalties on top of that. This pre-determined amount is, well... pre-determined, and it varies according to the songwriter and the label and what they negotiated. So CD sales don't affect that part. What you're saying is that "free downloads don't do a thing for the songwriter", which isn't exactly true if they've already got their cheque just for submitting the song. That is all I'm saying.

A songwriter used to be able to get a guaranteed amount before the CD is sold.

One of my co-writers (Kirk Thompson from the Hawaiian group Kalapana), showed me a letter he got years ago from Gladys Knight's producer asking him if he could record one of Kirk's older songs that he heard on the radio while he was in Hawaii. He guaranteed Kirk payment for 20,000 copies (in addition to statuatory rate for all sales). Yes it does happen.

But that was like 12 or 13 years ago.

With illegal downloading and awful sales of CDs nowadays, NOBODY guarantees anything anymore. And publishers don't give out advances anymore either--see the web link I gave in one of my posts above.

[MakahaMusic]

@Phuong

I guess I have mixed feelings about streaming, because in some ways, it's sort of like radio, which is free to listen to.....

[Guest hihihi]

I brought up the vegetarian issue not to compare the situation, but to compare the "point of view". While vegetarian thinks that it's cruel and inhumane to eat meat, other people may just view it as a food source, and nothing wrong with that. Yes... stealing is wrong. But isn't murder wrong also? Well, that's what vegeterian are thinking when someone is eating meat... they consider it as murder. I don't believe that I'm actually "truly stealing" when I'm watching a show online; and I don't actually think I'm a murderer just because an animal had to die because of me. Other may view it differently, but from my perspective, I don't see it that way.

Get over it.

[MakahaMusic]

what I see quite a lot in comments and forums, is that some people just don't know the difference between artists and pure songwriters, like some of the comments here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...llcomments=true

btw, I wasn't really referring to the main article above, but the comments following it.

[Guest gem2461]

I download music. Tbh, I don't care if it's wrong or not.

If I were to pay for all the music I've downloaded - I'd basically be bankrupt.

But I like music - sooo... I just download.

This.

Sry.

[MakahaMusic]

It is wrong somewhat, but there are also musicians out there that are ok with it too.

If someone wants to give away their music for free, that's their prerogative....

but most don't though....

[Guest mintchoco]

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind at all if singers who aren't song-writers are weeded out because of this. Then the Britneys and the Rihannas and the Mileys of the world can finally disappear from radio.

Haha I 100% agree with this statement!

[MakahaMusic]

I don't get some of the hate I've seen recently directed towards artists and songwriters in different forums or comments sections, like in the web link below (the comments on the article, not the actual article).... I mean how about actors, or authors--the successful ones make quite a bit of money.

Why the resentment against musicians?

Some people think all songwriters are rich, but it's only a tiny percentage.

and some people think songwriters and artists don't deserve to make a living making music....

unbelievable....

Well, here's the link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...sic-prs-youtube

[Guest caymicah]

well i download music most of the time because most of the songs i listen to is korean so their CDs are not available here

and cant afford much of their CDs to be shipped but i have few though... ILLEGAL downloading is wrong i know i know but its my only way to listen to THEIR music because no radio stations or even tv tend to play or view some so i download them illegally...

y do songwriters dont have the same contracts as authors?

as far as i know authors got a percent in the merchendise that a company sells or something...

so maybe songwriters should have the same "condition"...

[Guest Painterlyy]

It's wrong but people still do it. Plus...they still make money so..yea.

[Guest yuki fiore]

um i will be honest i do it...

i do feel bad when i illegally download BUT...

i listen to mostly korean music and i cant buy every korean CD...

[Guest sarah_luisa]

Illegal = forbidden by law or statute. Prohibited by law

so.. yeah its wrong..

but I/people still do it

[Guest lol^_^]

i feel absoultly no guilt ...does that make me a bad person NO

I CANT AFFORD THE CD'S!!!!! plain and simple.

they still make money from movies ringtones tv radio etc.....

god forbid if the money was cut from 4 million to 2.( not saying this is the amount for everyone)

i'm not trying to be insensitive here im just saying you want me to listent o the music

well i cant afford 15 to 20 a pop for CD and most likely only listen to 2 songs on it.

nobody said they dont deserve to make a live but come on when they lower the price on cd's to 5 dollars maybe i will purchase it.

i just cant afford it. this is a reccession i could barely afford school dues....and ur complaining about songwriters not getting their money. i wish i had a nice job like that instead the rest of use are working at the walmarts of the world. i just think there are better things to complain about than ppl downloading music and royalties. last time i cheaked it wasnt illegal downloading that make the economy crash....

and i dont think streaming counts because radio station stream their stuff over the net....that's not stealing same with movies.

and only a small percentage of artists these days are singer songwriters....i agree with other ppl the mileys of this world do not need to be in this category when they are making money from endorsements maybe with the reduction of songwriters we would have so many bad singers ...idk....im kinda annoyed sry

im not trying to offend its just things are changing its not so pretty anymore

[Guest kimi xx]

Its bad and I usually tend to download songs, then naturally if I don't like it I won't buy the album and then delete the file off my computer. I know its wrong, but I rather buy something that I would totally listen to 24/7 then having the CD case on my shelf collecting dust. But as of lately, I calm down my downloading spree. I totally quit downloading something unless its from my favorite artist and preview their songs before buying the album now.

As for movies, I don't do bootleg or download them. I know totally different from music, but yeah.

[Guest zhuuzhuusoba]

Personally, I think it's wrong. But the entertainment sector is so screwed up...

I try not to DL, and I've only succeeded when it comes to one group - DBSK. I try to buy all their music, though it is nearly impossible. ^^;; (DBSK Fighting Spirit?!? Where the heck am I supposed to get that? XD)

Because I feel guilty after DLing a song, I'll just delete it from my comp or not DL it at all. I try to buy songs, and listen to previews/samples before doing so.

But before I actually felt guilty, I used to DL all the time. This was when there was no such thing as buying only a song off of an album, like you can on iTunes. ^^;;