Adnana
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Posts posted by Adnana
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18 minutes ago, violet90 said:
sorry to cut your post...
this one i want to give my thought... did you really think that Su telling So that she want to tell Jung that she want to escape the palace will make it better??
So will go even mad and maybe do something to make sure Jung did't step back into palace.. when Queen Yoo is dying his order is if Jung step into palace he will be executed and the only thing that keeping him do that is Su.. and his promise to Su that he won't take any of his sibling life...
but here we talk about Jung possibly taking away one thing that he keep fighting to keep beside him.. the only person that can keep him as So not KG.. i really afraid if he know about 2 thing.. Jung have a way to take Su away and Su want to leave him...
this conclude my reasoning why she CAN'T never tell So about Jung...
@violet90 Oh, I didn't mean that Soo should tell So about Jung, not at all. It's not explicit in the sentence you quoted, because I'd already written about this in previous posts, but what I was saying is, I wanted Soo to tell So first that she was leaving him, before she told anyone else. It's their relationship, their personal issue, so they should discuss it first before involving outsiders, right?
This is what I originally wrote, when I first brought up this issue:
QuoteIn C-BBJX, Ruo Xi first asked the Emperor (4th Prince) to let her leave the Palace, and it was only AFTER he told her that he'd never allow her to leave him, that she asked for 14th Prince's help. So I'm bitterly disappointed for this reason as well, that Soo didn't even possess the common decency to talk to So first before sending for Jung, to explain that she wants to leave and to ask him to allow it. He might have understood and respected her wish! Fine, he likely wouldn't have, but why isn't she giving him even ONE chance? Doesn't he deserve at least that much after all they've been through together, after everything he's done for her? Why does Soo, whenever the going gets tough, always and forever default to expecting the worst from So?
And anyway, if Soo wants to leave the Palace, doesn't she have a mouth to argue her case and 2 feet to carry her away? Why must she immediately involve other people--moreover 14th Prince who
(a) is So's full blood brother and already has a bad relationship with him--which would only get further strained because of Soo's irresponsible decision; and
(b) is in freaking house arrest and denied entry to the capital under pain of death!
You see? I wanted Soo to go to So and tell him, "I want out of the Palace. Let me go." I wanted her to explain her reasons and give him the benefit of the doubt, that when So saw that Soo was in earnest, that she couldn't live there anymore, that she wanted to be free etc.--that he would willingly let her go himself.
So basically, the fact that Soo is already sending for Jung before talking to So even once, banking on needing Jung's help to get away from So, implies that she does not trust So to follow her wishes. And she may be right--I don't expect So to let Soo go easily--but the right thing to do would still have been for Soo to hash this issue out with So and try at least once to make her wishes clear before calling in outside help.
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11 hours ago, kdramawriter said:
I guess you can parse this in two ways. You can say that HS is being selfish, but I see it as self-preservation.
What is more important? Their love or her individuality? I feel like as a modern woman, Ha Jin is entitled to feel like she is still a person; not just a source of comfort for her man.
There's still a tiny bit of Ha Jin left in Hae Su, and I think her leaving Wang So is a desperate attempt to preserve what's left of herself. She's already given up so much of herself to be with him. She's struggling with the polygamy aspect of his life, which is necessary for consolidation of power, but murderous on her heart. She's trapped in the palace all day when she's told him that she loves her freedom and she wants to live her life the way she desires. She's also desperately ill and cannot tell him because it would not allow him the decision to let her go. She's is trapped in every way: emotionally, physically, and mentally. So I completely understand Hae Su when she decides to leave.
Wang So has stopped confiding in her, he has essentially stopped talking to her about his problems after he married Yeon Hwa. Probably because he feels incredibly guilty about marry someone who is not Hae Su again. The first time he married the Mu's daughter, he told her that he failed her, but that he did not wish to discuss it with her. And this ultimately hurt Hae Su more than if he had explained himself. The exact same thing again with the marriage to YH.
Hae Su only has one reason to be in the palace and that is her relationship with Wang So. The betrayal from Chae Ryung is only the straw that broke the camel's back. This is a long time coming. Ever since the proposal when she realizes that she can't marry him, it's been going downhill this way. I think they both are in denial the end of their relationship, because they're going to hurt each other MUCH more in Ep 19 before they break apart. But I don't fault her for leaving. She must to save herself.
@kdramawriter I loved your response. Plausible and insightful, and highlighting HS's plight in a way that, as a fellow woman, I can't but feel sympathetic and view her decision to leave the Palace in a different, kinder light. I guess I was just expecting a longer chain of events (like in the C-drama) gradually chipping away at Soo before she got to this point. Whether the SHR production team were pressured by time constraints (with so few episodes left) or they just did a hackjob in the editing room (yet again), the transition from Soo's "I won't leave you" (said to So in E17 and again in E18, even after she essentially gave him the okay to marry another woman), to Soo expressing her desire to leave just half an episode later seemed way too abrupt. I think that's the main problem that most of us had with E18? (more than So marrying Yeonhwa, and turning angry/vengeful--which was all understandable and well built-up towards. Personally, I love dark Gwangjong while at the same time I understand why Soo was trying to stop his descent since he was losing pieces of his soul in the process, which hurt them both.)
Another problem I had was that--not unexpectedly, since that's the pattern this drama always seems to follow--we've been excluded from Soo's inner thought process. If she had framed her decision to leave in terms of her not being able to bear So's polygamy and increasing distance from herself anymore, then I would have been 100% a-okay with her putting self-preservation first and checking out. But bad writing/choppy editing struck again? To me, the events were framed in such a way that it almost made it seem like Soo couldn't live with So anymore strictly because he'd had CR executed. Which, after all of that girl's crimes and lack of regret until the end, seemed like such a slap in the face of this supposedly grand SoSoo love story. So yeah, I think the writing is at fault for not making Soo's feelings and thoughts clearer, for not depicting her previous struggles in the Palace better and for a longer time (I mean, she can't even last a few weeks before she has a complete about-face? Ruo Xi trudged on for so much longer, trying to stick by her man even while he, unlike So so far, committed TRULY monstrous acts). Essentially: I'm okay with CR's being the final blow to Soo's resolve to stick by So; I'm not okay with it being the main reason, however.
And finally, I still dislike that Soo sent for Jung first, even before talking with So. Surely her man deserves better than that?
I hope E19 addresses/fixes at least part of this issues. At the very least, I hope that Soo's reasons for leaving will be expressly framed in a way that we can understand and support.
@30orsomething Thank you for your awesome praise; I'm truly honored to hear it and I'm glad I could be part of your emotional support group. I was and still am in need of such a support group myself, which is why I am here on Soompi. Watching this drama has messed with my feelings to an incredible degree, and the many times SHR made me angry and/or disappointed, it was some of the insightful commentators here that helped me gain a different perspective and gave me the strength to watch on. Though it's debatable if watching on was a smart choice to make.
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10 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:
I've only really seen Ep. 18 the one time. I will get to it again when we sub it at DSS and then I'll review my thoughts on the episode.
I don't think I said that she was leaving the palace to protect him per se but what I said that if she can't handle staying in the palace any longer, she should leave so that he can get on with what he needs to do so that she doesn't get in the way. That wasn't anything she said specifically but what I think she should do for both their sakes. I can see why you interpreted it the way you did but I don't think I quite meant it in the way you put it.
I also said that she was trying to protect his humanity but I didn't relate that specifically to her leaving the palace. I said that more in relation to how she was trying to help Jeong and the "dearly" departed Queen Yu. She didn't want him turning into a monster-tyrant because of her (among other things) which is why she tried to help Jeong see his mother in her final moments.
My take on the CR episode is that it was the straw the broke the camel's back. I don't think her decision to leave was based entirely on CR getting killed but more that it was the last straw. But it wasn't just CR getting killed, it was also the fact that she was part of a larger conspiracy directed by Uk to undermine the throne and undermine the relationship between Su and So.
But if you can provide me with an exact quote, that would help.
@40somethingahjumma Thank you for replying, and I very much look forward to reading your upcoming review of E18, whenever it's ready.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your exact stance re: Soo's decision to leave the Palace. I went back and checked, and it seems the misunderstanding likely arose (on my part) because I conflated your statements with those of another poster @vwj1 with whom you seemed to agree particularly ("Excellent post friend"). And oh, it was actually vwj1 who expressly wrote:
QuoteSoo has a good heart and the best of intentions but that girl will get my King killed. Undermining him like this will show the Ministers So's weakness. ... I believe when she was standing at Damiwon, she came to a realization of what she finally have to do. When she finally decided on leaving, she finally understood what her leaving will mean. She will not be used as a tool anymore against her beloved King. So [drank poison] because of her. He had to leave the palace to be ambassador because of her. He had to be Yo's dog because of her. He had to kill Eun partially because of her. He finally decided on being King also partially because of her. Now she feels responsible that her beloved King had to kill again due in part to her. She will not be used again against her man.
And I'd love for Soo's thinking to have gone along those lines (highlighted above), but unfortunately I think it's too much of a stretch--not supported by the actual writing/events previously depicted in the drama. I think Soo's decision to leave in that moment is completely selfish, because she can't take life in the Palace anymore. She doesn't seem to be thinking about So at all--not about her solemn promise to stay by his side, nor about how he'd feel about her departure and whether maybe he'd let her go simply because she wants to and without it requiring Jung's unwelcome interference. Sigh.
Anyway, you replied, (to vwj1) I think:
QuoteI would also add that Su sees the human face of things in all these situations... the individual people, the relationships which is fine when things go your way. But when the world out there is out to get you, one has to look at the big picture and pick the battles one has to fight, "Is this a battle worth dying for?" This is why I think this drama is realistic and the fact that these two can't be together long-term without destroying each other is also... sadly... very realistic.
I don't know if I understand the point you are trying to make in relation to the events in E18?... Is Soo giving up the battle, giving up on So?... I'd love to read your follow-up thoughts on these issues (and any other), both from you, @40somethingahjumma, and @vwj1.
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From the entirety of this endlessly gut-wrenching drama, I present to those interested the ONE & ONLY single episode of uninterrupted SoSoo shippyness:
E17, all-inclusive SBS/International version.
I have personally split, joined together and edited the complete episode 17 in a single video file, containing ALL the scenes from both the SBS and the International version. It's not perfect, but I hope you'll enjoy it.
If you're already included in @liddi's fabulous group PM for SBS version subtitles, you can find the links for my merged E17 episode+subtitle there, on the first page, below the subtitle links. (Otherwise, PM me directly.)
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20 hours ago, briseis said:[...]
“I will not give up on you over that scar. No one can force me to. I won’t give up either.”
Some people say that they want back the wild WS who didn’t care about rules defied everyone and who would do anything for HS, BUT HE IS STILL THAT WS, HE HASN’T CHANGED AT ALL. He is ready to FIGHT THE WHOLE WORLD FOR HER (just like he did many times before) - HE’S READY TO WEATHER THE STORM, PREPARED TO ABOLISH A CENTURIES-OLD STUPID RULE ABOUT SCARS, FIGHT THE CLANS AND ALL FOR HER, SO HE COULD MAKE HER HIS QUEEN! And you know that in the end, he would have won because he’s smart and ruthless, he would go over dead bodies to achieve it, but all Goryeo kings went over dead bodies. It’s HER WHO IS GIVING UP, who is afraid to fight for them - it’s because she wants to stop bloodshed and to protect him, but the truth it’s noble idiocy in it’s purest form. In the end, HS hasn’t changed either.
[...]
@briseis I disagree. If E18 did one thing right, is build up to the inevitability of Wang So having to give in to the clans' pressure in order to protect his as-yet very tenuous hold on the throne. Hae Soo's decision to reject his marriage proposal in the established context wasn't noble idiocy but necessary sacrifice.
There was NO noble idiocy in E18. At least, not in the first half.
Let's review the facts.
Wang So is a newly crowned king, who hasn't had enough time (and resources) yet to build a strong foundation for his throne. Moreover, there are still ugly rumors swirling in the background, questioning the very legitimacy of his ascension. No small thing, that. All of which means, So's position as King is very shaky. Not enough, maybe, that a strong, concentrated gust (of opposition) could blow him off the throne... but not far off it either.
Goryeo itself is still a young, vulnerable nation, made up of many rival clans with conflicting interests, tenuously held together. How easily So's own maternal clan, led by Jung, comes before King Gwangjong in E17, questioning his right to rule and threatening secession. The many powerful clans of the land, with their significant share of economic power, their sizeable private armies and their complicated agendas, hold all the real power and Goryeo's king at that point in history has a very limited scope of what he can actually do. If he doesn't juggle the complex game of politics well, he might even get to see the whole fragile nation disbanding before his eyes. Queen Hwangbo is right when she matter-of-factly warns So of the risk that one misstep might shatter his father, King Taejo's, great legacy.
"Are you going to let Goryeo fall apart during your reign, Your Majesty?"
So's position as a young, untested King--in just a few short years he's the 3rd in a line of princes that have so far failed to prove themselves worthy successors of Taejo--is particularly untenable in the drama. Whereas historical Wang So had the support of three powerful clans (maternal, adopted, wife's), drama Wang So stands alone. He's been cut off by his maternal clan (the Chungju Yoos are even actively working against him), his adopted Shinju Kang clan seems to have vanished in the woodwork (bad writing, there), and there's no wife. The General who made So's rebellion succeed is gone, too. In a land where power is derived from the clans, So has no clans supporting his rule. When they boycott him, there's nothing he can do, no alliance of stronger clans he can call upon to keep the others in check.
With the General gone, there's no military might he can call upon either--not that it would have been a solution anyway. Now that his rebellion has succeeded, the fight has moved from the military to the political arena, and that's where So has to play now, and win. I mean, it's not like he can kill everyone, right? Then there'd be no ministers, no court left to rule over--and everyone else left from all the clans would be baying for the king's blood. In truth, it's still much too early for it to be viable (or even possible) to implement the bloody purges that Gwangjong comes to be known for much later, when his reign is secure.
In any case, did you catch how King Gwangjong showed up for Court but there was neither hide nor hair of his ministers or any court officials to be seen? He had to wait impotently, sitting on his throne in an empty room (talk about heavy-handed symbolism!) until Wook showed up with his demands. Outrageous demands, that the King relinquish all his financial and military authority--but demands that Wook felt safe to make because he had the backing of the clans, whereas the King had no backing, and so the King was weak, and so all the power that the King was being asked to hand over was actually his in name only and not available in fact for him to wield. Not without the support of the clans.
I won't even get into all the reasons why the clans and the entire Court would have been outraged had King Gwangjong chosen Hae Soo as his Queen. Frankly, her scar--though the taboo against a scarred woman belonging to the King is real and deeply-ingrained enough to not be easily challenged in Goryeo society--is a minor issue compared to:
1) her status as a mere court lady who's served many kings over many years
2) her belonging to a minor clan only (if she wasn't disinherited by them completely, that is, which is actually very likely after that debacle when she almost married the late King Taejo)
3) her suspect behavior at Damiwon, which includes her unusual knowledge of various aspects, her alien writing etc.--all of which made Soo personally very suspicious and particularly questionable as the King's potential partner.
"She has no background. Yet, she has many weaknesses."
And for the King to reject all available princesses, all the noble daughters from the powerful clans, and instead marry a suspect little nobody like Soo? Moreover, a scarred nobody?! Not only would the nobles have been personally offended, but they might have also--rightfully--questioned the King's sanity. Or at least his capacity to act as a real ruler should.
In the Court's eyes, not only was Soo too severely lacking in all aspects (background, position, behavior; and yes, the scar) to ever be considered worthy to marry the King, but she was even liable to fall in personal danger because of the existing suspicions about her. Like, her alien writing--might it mean that she was a foreign spy? Let's not even talk about Soo being accepted as the King's bride; if some powerful accusers had stepped forward, and with some extra fabricated evidence, she might have seen her very life endangered. And maybe not even the King--as weak as he is now--could have protected her. You do remember King Taejo (comparatively more secure in his reign, and considerably more powerful at the time) and how he still had to sacrifice Lady Oh, right?
Once again, I've written too much, but the short and main of it is, there was no way in hell that So could marry Soo and keep his throne at this point in time. He could NOT go against all the clans for Soo because he was at the start of his reign, and much too weak. He would NOT have won, could not have won such a fight--but his rash actions had he tried that route would have likely precipitated the very worst-case-scenario, namely the dissolution of Goryeo itself. So knew all that, but he was too stubborn and proud and determined not to break another promise to Soo, so he proposed to her anyway. Soo knew it too, so she refused his proposal. And So was absolutely not in a position to argue against Soo's selfless decision. No noble idiocy involved on either side, just clear-headed acceptance of the unavoidable facts.
So literally had no choice but to let Soo refuse him and pick a powerful wife instead, like he should have done in the first place. He did NOT marry Yeonhwa because Soo told him to; he married her because it had to be done, only he refused to do it until Soo allowed him to. He needed Yeonhwa's clan's support to finally get the other clans to acknowledge him and allow him to act as King (i.e. by actually showing up for Court).
One last thing. As I see it, faced with the untenable (give up making Soo his Queen or lose the throne), So gritted his teeth, strangled his soul-deep outrage and unwillingness and compromised. He married Yeonhwa for the chance to at last become King in fact as well as name--that is, for the chance to grow the power he needed not to be forced to EVER compromise again. He couldn't marry Soo now, and that's why he's so angry and why he's turned so much darker and sinister after his wedding to Yeonhwa and why he's hardcore giving in to his ruthless side & going for vengeance now that he finally can--but I'm positive that his ultimate goal is to bide his time and arrive at a place of unshakable strength from where he really CAN fight the clans, and the whole world if need be, and win. A position from where he can finally safely reach for Hae Soo and hold her to him without endangering her, or his throne. Little does he know that by the time he rises to that position, it will be too late. Soo will have already left him--not by simply stepping outside the Palace (where So could, and would, have brought her back eventually)--but in a far more permanent and soul-crushing way.
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@40somethingahjumma I've very much enjoyed all your recent commentary on E18. There's 2 sticking points left, though, that bother me quite a bit. And by that, I mean a whole freaking LOT.
1) Don't you agree that the writing in E18 made it seem like Soo decided to leave So because he'd killed her "little sister"? Which given everything that Chae Ryung did (up to and including her involvement in the deaths of 2!! of Soo's beloved princes), just makes it impossible to even begin to understand where Soo's head is at. And it makes me really bitter that she'd leave So for this reason, especially as not very long ago she promised him that she'd stay with him always. Why is she always breaking her promises to So only?
Anyway, I'm curious what line of dialogue or gesture made you think that because she, Soo, keeps getting used against So, she's decided to leave the Palace in order to protect him. I think it was something along these lines that you said? But I just don't see it.
2) In C-BBJX, Ruo Xi first asked the Emperor (4th Prince) to let her leave the Palace, and it was only AFTER he told her that he'd never allow her to leave him, that she asked for 14th Prince's help. So I'm bitterly disappointed for this reason as well, that Soo didn't even possess the common decency to talk to So first before sending for Jung, to explain that she wants to leave and to ask him to allow it. He might have understood and respected her wish! Fine, he likely wouldn't have, but why isn't she giving him even ONE chance? Doesn't he deserve at least that much after all they've been through together, after everything he's done for her? Why does Soo, whenever the going gets tough, always and forever default to expecting the worst from So?
And anyway, if Soo wants to leave the Palace, doesn't she have a mouth to argue her case and 2 feet to carry her away? Why must she immediately involve other people--moreover 14th Prince who
(a) is So's full blood brother and already has a bad relationship with him--which would only get further strained because of Soo's irresponsible decision; and
(b) is in freaking house arrest and denied entry to the capital under pain of death!
I keep trying to understand and sympathize with Soo, only to keep hitting a wall... again... and again... and again.
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17 hours ago, liddi said:[...] I think my main whiplash with So is not so much that he is cleaning house, but his wholesale slaughter of those innocents who were in attendance when Yo died, who had nothing to do with their political intrigues. That was no longer protecting someone he loves, but fiercely and jealously protecting his claim to the throne, and seeing bystanders as mere collateral damage. Yet, this is supposedly the same person who in the next breath, cared so much about those forced into labour in Seokyeong, that he made such complete provisions for them and their families. [...]
@liddi That was honestly the one decision of Gwangjong's that initially made me raise a brow, because it seemed out-of-character for the man we knew as 4th Prince, who is compassionate and caring--as shown in the way how he deals with the forced laborers, which you pointed out as well. But only initially was I disconcerted.
Then I saw a comment somewhere, and it clicked for me: 4th Prince might have an essentially good heart, but he carries a lot of emotional and mental baggage that will take precedence when it comes to his hot-button issues. And for this man who's been shunned practically his entire life--by both mother and father (to a lesser but still significant degree), brothers, adoptive family, even the common people who feared and despised him despite his status as a prince--the issue of acceptance/legitimacy would be his greatest sore spot. He was barely a prince (he even has a line, I think around the rain ritual, where he bitterly remarks that while his brothers lived as princes, he was treated as less than a butcher's son, which is the lowest possible position on the social ladder), and now even after becoming King, he was being undermined yet again.
The rumors were extremely dangerous and needed to be nipped in the bud before they grew out of control because:
1) they struck at the core of his hard-earned position, questioning the very legitimacy of his claim to the throne; and
2) they were also his detractors' way of testing the new King's power/boundaries
all of which meant, really, that Gwangjong's swift brutality was the only appropriate response. Sad but true, since his opponents needed to know they couldn't mess with him indiscriminately or they would have done it again and again.
But also, and I think this is very important, those rumors scraped the open wound of 4th Prince's lifelong rejection issues, so his extreme reaction was not just a politically expedient response but also came out of a place of awakening old hurts and lashing out in response. The innocent lives affected became incidental in this scenario.
It's not even out-of-character for 4th Prince to shrug off the deaths of many as long as he can justify his actions in his mind (even if an outsider wouldn't necessary agree with him)--we've seen it happen before, when he wholesale slaughtered an entire temple of (assassin) monks. Let's be clear: afterward, he wasn't upset because of the river of blood he'd shed, but because it failed to win him a positive reaction from Queen Yoo. His later discussion with the General proves it. But I digress.
Basically, I'm saying that 4th Prince had already shown himself capable of monstrous acts and killing on a large scale, and with even less excuse. It's not out of character for him to order all those people killed; moreover when it was essential in order to protect his throne and when the rumors circulating were felt like a personal blow against him, the perennially unwanted former Wolf-dog. And lest we forget, his new status as King is apt to amplify all the darkest sides of Wang So as he gradually becomes Gwangjong.
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@ruizaio Do you happen to know approximately how old the child actor playing young Wang So is? He looks maybe 5-6 yrs. old to me? (Western age)
I'm trying to figure out, based on young WS's age + 15 years*, how old drama Wang So is at the start of the drama, in 941/942. 'Cause basic math says that he sure ain't 17/18 (the age** at that point in time of historical Wang So, who was born in 925).
*In E03, Wang So says: "Crown Prince Moo saved my life 15 years ago."
**Korean age
Thanks for helping! The fictional ages of the main characters is something that's been really bugging me. I've got Hae Soo all figured out, since her official character description gives her Korean age (16--or 15 in Western years, I suppose) at the time of her time-travel, but the princes are a killer since they don't match historical fact at all.
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1 hour ago, bingewatcherinsomniac said:
Woah..I admire your dedication in making this compilation, @Adnana.
I could imagine the hardwork you've put to compiled all missing and deleted scenes in such detail manner, and we are all very grateful for this. THANK YOU SO MUCH.If you don't mind, I'll add some scenes that probably didn't see the light of day (please don't hesitate to correct me if i'm wrong..
):
1. In one of Jin ki joo's interview, she mentioned there are many scenes of chaeryung and haesoo that didn't make the cut. It supposed to lay out the bond between them. (although tbh, I'm not that interested to their story.. IF there is a need to explore her character better, they should highlight her relationship with 9th prince or 8th prince, instead...)
2. In the preview of episode 7, I don't know whether it was a misleading impression or the scene got butchered in the editing room, but when general park questioned wang so's decision for staying in palace, evil queen supposedly eavesdropped their conversation. (sorry.. I couldn't find the right screencap as i'm typing from my ipad right now
)
3. I think there are some of go ha jin's back story scenes that also get edited out in the process. Like her confrontation with her bff and ex bf. But yeah.. I think it was a reasonable move from the editor with the limited number of episode they had, because the flashback already gave us enough clue what kind of life she had in 21st century.
@bingewatcherinsomniac You're very welcome! And thank YOU for writing such a detailed post. I'll address each of your points, okay?
No. 2) Preview for E07. It was a misleading edit. As shown in the International version (it didn't make the SBS cut) Evil Queen does overhear a conversation--only it's related to the CP's illness/skin condition, after Hae Soo tried to help him, and has nothing to do with the General and Wang So.
No. 1) and 3). Thank you for pointing out these deleted scenes. I'd somehow overlooked these stills in the PD-Note... I don't know exactly where they would fit (i.e. in what episode)--you might have noticed, for each deleted/cut scene featured in the Compilation-PDF, I tried to identify the corresponding episode.
So instead, I'm thinking I will create an end section in the PDF, an addendum if you will, where I will list missing scenes that can't be assigned to a specific episode, and also which might be considered of (relatively) lesser importance. (And by scenes of lesser importance, I mean, of course: scenes where Wang So neither appears nor is mentioned. Lol.) That okay?
Thanks!
ETA: I've edited the Compilation to include your suggestions.
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14 minutes ago, snarkybum said:
Coming out of creeper mode on this thread to add to this. I definitely remember seeing an image of Wang So in the lake accompanying Hae Soo who is in his boat in her Damiwon uniform. I can't find the image, so if anyone knows where it is please message Adnana it. I think the image shows a continuation of a scene in episode 8...at least according to my memory of what the characters were wearing, but I could be wrong. My memory is s*** lol.
By the way, this PDF is amazing! Hopefully we get to see some of these scenes in the future when (not if) we get that DVD!
@snarkybum Thank you for unlurking! And I'm glad you liked my PDF.
Do you mean this image?
Hmm... It's true that So is sitting up here, whereas during the scene shown in E08, he was lying down the whole time.
Are we dealing with a BTS still or additional footage that was cut from the aired episode? Anyone else care to weigh in? So's last shown reply (...it's annoying that someone so young is acting so wise...) seemed to put a definite end to the conversation. What are the chances, then, that the dialogue might have continued, and moreover, with So even making an effort to sit up at last?
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12 minutes ago, whyo said:
@Adnana I don't know if it can include or not. At cover ost.4 by davichi, WangSo and HaeSo at the lake/cottage but I never saw them in those outfit.
@whyo Thank you so much for replying! I love you guys for taking an interest and being willing to contribute.
This particular OST cover features a composite (i.e. photoshopped) image, and not a still that would exist as such in the actual drama.
In other words:
the background (Lake Dongji) is taken from the beginning of E07 (when So shows Soo around and imparts essential lessons about life in the Palace),
the centerpiece (Soo sitting crouched down and So pointing in the distance) is taken from later in E07 (when So tells Soo about having befriended trees in the past).
Thank you, and if you think of anything else, let me know.
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7 minutes ago, LyraYoo said:
Thanks for the compilation @Adnana
Just to clarify on the deleted scenes, I think this had been shown in episode 14 in both versions as a flashback of Wang So when Moo pushes his daughter to be sent to Khitan
@LyraYoo Thank you for taking the time to reply. It's not just about the still appearing at some point in the drama, but about the context around it. This childhood sequence is an event that's alluded to a few times throughout the drama (as a flashback), but it's the scene framing the flashback that matters most each time.
In other words, I'm aware of the flashback in E14, but independent of that, there's still a nightmare scene (featuring that same flashback) that was deleted from E04. Per the description I posted underneath this particular still (No. 2) in my Compilation-PDF, I specified about Hae Soo approaching Wang So's room while he's in the throes of his nightmare. She leaves without returning the butterfly hairpin as intended, and So follows her to the stone piles. So yeah... That's the scene we're missing.
If you notice anything else, let me know!
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As if SHR hadn't taken over quite enough of my time and thoughts already (HA!), I've started to put together a collection of the filmed scenes we know of that didn't make it in either the SBS or the International version of the drama--scenes that were either deleted completely, or were cut short.
I think, while we're waiting and praying for the confirmation of an All-Inclusive Director's cut, browsing through a preview of some of the deleted scenes we might expect could be quite interesting for more than a few of our fellow MLSHR-addicts here on Soompi, right?
Anyway, the result of my labors became quite a long document, and image-heavy, so I've created a PDF and uploaded it here:
MLSHR: Compilation of deleted or cut scenes
Pics + Description: https://issuu.com/adnana7/docs/deleted
Photo Album only: http://issuu.com/adnana7/docs/deleted.pptx
I hope everyone will have no problems accessing and viewing this content.
Very important! If:
1) you recognize any of the stills as NOT belonging to deleted scenes after all (i.e. you can place them in either version SBS/Int. of the drama); or
2) you know (with or without proof stills) of further deleted scenes/dialogues/etc.
please let me know, so that I can update the existing compilation/document.
I'd really appreciate the help of the Soompi community in developing this small side-project, for the benefit of the Soompi community. Thanks!
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4 hours ago, oyashirazu said:Does anyone have a clue whether we've ever seen this particular costume on Wang So?
[...]
If you observe the masks that Wang So wore throughout the series, there's a clear progression.
In the still above, the mask is the one that So wore exclusively in episodes 5-6. Now consider the incredible degree to which So's scenes during those early episodes were butchered, when he was being sidelined in favor of the other princes, and Wook in particular. He had almost no screentime in the aired E5, and would have barely had any significant scenes in E6--see the International version for proof--if the K-netizens hadn't raised an uproar which led to the re-edited SBS version of E6 in which several So-centric scenes were restored. As we all know, it was starting with E6 that the production team made an effort to reedit the episodes and add some of the deleted So-centric scenes that didn't make the originally intended (i.e. International) version.
Anyway, long story short: the still above hints at a deleted scene in E05 or E06, in which So should be wearing that particular outfit. There's the possibility, of course, they just decided to dress him differently before the actual filming--but it's not very likely since he is wearing quite a few layers already (i.e. the outfit is complete minus a final overlayer) and I've never seen a complete outfit change from BTS to actual scene before in this drama. The closest we got was in E07, when Hae Soo accidentally sprinkles Wang So while watering the gardens. In the BTS he's wearing an additional overlayer (the orange one seen when he steals the kiss from Hae Soo in E12) while in the filmed scene he's reverted to wearing the inner layer alone (the pink one). So even then, he didn't change the entire outfit; he just shucked the overlayer, while keeping the inner one (because of the heat? to make it clear the scene was set in full summer?).
ETA: Ah not a deleted scene after all. My bad. The outfit seen above, as I said, is missing the final overlayer. Turns out, that final overlayer is the ceremonial princely robe seen here:
If you look carefully, you can indeed see, beneath So's outer robe, the white sleeve and the red skirt of the underlayer.
Spoilercredit:
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It's been bugging me how the 2-year time jump in E16 could bring us to autumn 948--seeing that, before the time skip, King Hyeojong had just died, and historically, that happened in October 945.
SpoilerThe obvious explanation is, we're dealing with additional instances of time compression--weeks/months passing within a single episode, in the blink of transitioning from one particular scene to the next--that are not expressly pointed out. To map this out, I ended up building (or rather, expanding on my previous attempt* at) a drama timeline for my own edification.
*Drama Timeline v.1 (E01-11):
Because I've seen people asking time-related questions again and again on the forum, I'm posting my (updated) findings here as well.
ML Scarlet Heart: Ryeo
Spoiler+++Official time markers in the drama, revealed through chyrons:
E03, 21:46 (SBS): Taejo 25th Year (New Year 942)
E12, 13:45 (INT): One year later (Taejo Year 26)
E14, 00:13 (INT): Two years later. Hyejong, second year of reign.
E16, 31:41 (INT): Jeongjong, third year of reign (Year 948)
and dialogues (in E16):
(CR to HS): "It's been two years since he's been here, so you would be happy."
(HS to WS): "There wasn't a day that I wasn't waiting for two years."
+++Reigns of the first 4 Goryeo kings (cr. Wikipedia):
Taejo: July 25, 918 – July 4, 943: 26 years; died: 4 July 943
Hyejong: 943 – 945: 2 years; died: 23 October 945
Jeongjong: 945 – 949: 3 years; died: 13 April 949
Gwangjong: 13 April 949 – 4 July 975; died: 4 July 975
Timeline of events: (v.2: E01-16)
[E01] end of 941 (late autumn/winter 941): Go Ha Jin becomes 16-year-old Hae Soo, in Goryeo
[E02] 12th lunar month 941 (cca. New Year's Eve 941): princes' exorcism rite
[E03] Taejo, 25th Year (New Year 942)
[E06] February/March 942: Lady Hae dies.
spring 942: Hae Soo becomes a Court Lady, and officially starts a romantic relationship with Wang Wook
[E08] summer 942: rain ritual, Wang So decides that Hae Soo will be his
[E10] 9th day of 9th lunar month 942 (cca. October 942): Double Yang Festival, Wang So drinks poison
[E11] autumn 942: Hae Soo is now nearing her 1-year-anniversary after arriving in Goryeo. If she was 16 when she arrived, then she should be 17 yrs. old now.
E12] Taejo, 26th Year: 1-year time jump, from autumn 942 to summer 943. In that time: Hae Soo living as a musuri and Wang So sent away as envoy to Later Jin.
[E13] July 943: Taejo dies, Wang Moo becomes King Hyejong. Hae Soo's breakup with Wang Wook is definitive.
[E14] Hyejong, 2nd Year: 2-year time jump, from summer 943 to autumn 945. Hae Soo, now Damiwon's sanggung, is nearing her 4-year-anniversary in Goryeo and should be 20 yrs. old. Wang So has openly loved Hae Soo for 3+ years.
October 945: after Hae Soo and Wang So became a couple at last, Hyejong dies and Wang Yo becomes King Jeongjong.
[E15-16] ?early 946: Wang Gyu's "rebellion" is crushed, 10th Prince is killed
[E16] Jeongjong, 3rd Year (Year 948): 2-year time jump, from ?early/spring 946 to late summer/autumn 948. Hae Soo is nearing her 7-year-anniversary in Goryeo and should be 23 yrs. old. Wang So has loved Hae Soo unremittingly for 6+ years (since the rain ritual in summer 942), she has openly reciprocated for 3 years (since near the end of Hyejong's reign in autumn 945).
Soo now has cca. 3+ years left in Goryeo (from a total of 10 years--i.e. the number specified by the production team as the time span covered by MLSHR).
[E17] 949... to be continued...
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3 hours ago, ruizaio said:[...] At least LJG does lurk on his own DC Gallery quite often and he seems to lurk on the MLSHR one, too (he posted his picture from the scene we just saw on ep 16 on IG during one of the gloomiest moments of the MLSHR Gallery with constant attacks of antis while some were also speculating about when So-Soo would consummate their love). Also, a recent IG post by Yoon Sun Woo (who plays the 9th prince) included a hashtag that is one of his character's nicknames used on the DC forum, suggesting that he's aware of its existence. For now, DC is blocking foreign IPs on the desktop site, but the mobile version is accessible internationally. [...]
@ruizaio I've been wanting to ask... Audience in Korea is obviously divided about MLSHR itself, and many of the acting performances--but what do they think about LJK's performance? I mean, it should be a no-brainer--imo he's the single best thing about this drama, elevating it almost single-handedly to must-watch/drama-crack-territory--but I guess you never know with netizens.
So, were there antis bashing even LJK on Korean forums after MLSHR started airing? Or did he get the universal praise he so rightfully deserves for the way he's playing Wang So? (independent of any possible criticism for the way the character Wang So is written, and which obviously has nothing to do with LJK) Thanks!
ETA: In a previous post you mentioned a still of WS released in the PD note, which hints at additional missing scenes in E16 (after WS's return to Songak, and before the backhug scene).
I think you posted the wrong still, and the one you meant was this one:
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39 minutes ago, ruizaio said:
Ah the SBS ep was worth the wait. I can die happily now. ...not! We need an all-inclusive, complete edition with all the scenes they've filmed!!!
I know, right? SBS might have added the backhug scene, but there are still missing scenes in E16:
1) Extended bed scene: after WS touches her face & HS wakes up, they talk or at the very least they look sweetly at each other while lying together in bed. WS has his palm wrapped around HS's hand.
2) Extended meal scene: WS feeds HS as well (that is NOT a BTS still, since all other stills released at the same time are part of actual scenes that were filmed & shown at least partially)
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@ruizaio I apologize if this has been explained before--I'm way behind in terms of catching up with the post on this thread--but I really really need to know and hope you might know, given your extensive period knowledge. What's up with SoHae's hairstyles?
WS has married and yet he's still wearing his hair down. How come? Hae Soo is unmarried (in the latest stills, when she's wearing the blue dress & kissing Wang So, presumably after another time jump), and sure, if she's still a court lady, then while inside the palace, she'd have to wear her hair in the prescribed style (up). But not when she's outside/in her free time (see boating scene)! So, in the latest stills with Wang So, Hae Soo is obviously outside the palace and yet she's wearing her hair up. As an unmarried girl. Why?!
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1 hour ago, ruizaio said:
I was also disappointed with Ep 14 at first. What I had said before about anything and everything Wang So does being for protecting/saving Hae Soo was based on the leaked synopsis. But then again the marriage to the princess was also in the synopsis.
Maybe Hae Soo becomes his top priority from here on now that big brother has died. Even before So met Hae Soo, So was already feeling indebted to Mu because he had saved him before. He had also promised his father that he would be a loyal subject to Mu, so he was still bound by that. In a sense, when Wang Geon was still alive, So may have felt like he still had a chance to leave the palace and live like a commoner with Soo, but with Mu on the throne and constantly being attacked by the clans, he must have felt that he couldn't just abandon him. He's still not interested in the throne to take it himself, but he can't let Wook take it, either. And knowing what it's like to be a hostage from firsthand experience, he couldn't possibly ignore the plight of the princess. [...]
@ruizaio Thank you for answering. Still not happy with Wang So according Hae Soo secondary priority. I know that many viewers were unhappy that WS was all about HS, but that was actually very close to my favorite thing about him. I wasn't watching (and loving) SHR for historical accuracy (I mean, as if!); but for the crazy-in-love & utterly, exclusively devoted romantic hero who would do anything for the heroine--'cause that's the kind of trope that pushes my buttons in fiction. And like, I get that the little princess triggered WS's trauma--but she's just a stranger to him, and between a mere stranger getting hurt and the love of his life getting hurt--shouldn't WS choose to protect HS? Though I admit, we're not talking about hurt on the same level, in the 2 cases.
Anyway... After thinking about it, I concluded that even as he accepted marrying the princess, WS never actually honestly, seriously considered losing HS in the bargain--not for one single moment (that's one saving grace, that he's way too far gone in love with HS to truly be able to part from her). This is proven by the poem he sends her, and by his reaction (jealous rage) when HS harbors Jung in her room at night. Definitely not the attitude of a guy who's allegedly given up on his girl.
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14 hours ago, liddi said:
Ep14 subs are complete, with deepest gratitude to @ruizaio's wonderful transcripts of the missing scenes, and @snowglobe147's translation of the SBS preview for Ep15
Again, we see marked differences between the two versions, with SBS clearly So-centric, while the international allows us more access to Wook's feelings through Chae Ryung, and his deepest motivations, which he reveals to Queen Hwangbo and Yeon Hwa, much to their shock, that he ultimately turned traitor because of Hae Soo. And the multiple references to key scenes in the original, beautifully transposed here, yet ominous in what it may hold down the road. [...]
Seeing the rebellion has succeeded, I wonder if we will get to see the scene with Wook revealing his motivations for supporting Yo in Ep15. Now more than ever, it is clearly a shame that we do not have a combination of both versions, because a merged version is definitely conducive to helping us at least understand the two men better. [...]liddi, ruizaio, snowglobe147, and all other contributors: Thank you for the wonderful subtitles. Really, words can't express the gratitude I feel for your bringing order to the chaotic mess that SHR's production team has made out of this drama, with the different airing versions and oftentimes questionable scene selection.
@liddi Regarding what you said--about how helpful & frankly necessary a merged/complete version of SHR would be--I completely agree, and well, that's why we're praying & pushing so hard for a full, no-cut version of the drama on Bluray/DVD, right? I just hope that, if the project goes through, their production team does a better, more responsible job in the editing room than what they've shown themselves capable of so far. In particular, I hope they'll use the voiceovers that were shown in the SBS version & which contributed so much to the fleshing out of the SoSoo ship.
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@ruizaio May I have your take on WS in E14?
After all I'd seen of him up to this point, I trusted that anything & everything Wang So (the fictional character) does in this drama--incl. his upcoming marriage with Yeonhwa--will be for Hae Soo. That's what you said/believed, too, right? Yet in E14, WS decides to abandon his promises to HS, decides even to stop courting her (the boat scene). He's giving up on her! And I just don't get it.
Before, WS firmly said that the crown is meaningless to him without HS. Yet now he's sacrificing her--not even out of ambition for the throne, but out of loyalty to the King. Shouldn't his first loyalty be for HS? She's supposedly the most important person in his life, bar none. As late as during the stargazing date in E14, he's still basically admitting that he couldn't live without her. So yeah... I utterly did not expect his about-face later in E14. I don't think it bodes well for the future.
Why do you think E14 was written like that? I mean, I see how it might be one more stepping stone in WS's king-making process, but doesn't it contradict his character as previously established? We know that his entire emotional world (and his sanity, pretty much) depends on HS. It just makes no sense for him to willingly abandon her like that.
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On 10/7/2016 at 10:47 AM, churasan said:@Adnana Thanks for the compilation of upcoming scenes. I really hope we get to see those scenes in episode 14. I will totally be annoyed if the preview trolls us again.
[...] In the last episodes, it was obvious that WS's biggest motivation to be king was to capture HS's heart. [...]
On 10/7/2016 at 11:18 AM, violet90 said:[...] even before HS accepted his feeling WS dare to defying king to save HS.. nothing matter to him except HS.. i kinda shock with what WS said about being a king.. that throne is only a tool to get HS heart and nothing more.. he don't even care about the power because IF the throne will give HS heart so he will get that.. simple as that.. [...]
To everyone who liked my Courtship, 4th Prince-style entries, THANK YOU. I enjoy being on this thread with all of you very much.
@churasan The spoiler stills are for episodes 14 AND 15. I think that, in E14, Hae Soo will still grapple with her feelings for Wang So before finally accepting him. I'm guessing that their sweetest scenes (in particular, the love confession and the kiss) will only happen in E15--though hopefully not. :-)
RE: 4th Prince possibly wanting the throne because of Hae Soo...
churasan, @violet90 According to my understanding, in the last episodes, Wang So still has no real desire for the throne. He fully and actively supports the Crown Prince as the king-to-be. He does not actually consider the throne a tool for gaining Hae Soo's heart--because he knows it wouldn't work.
In E12, 4th Prince tells his father straight-up: "I am not the king nor will I become one. ... I, too, will live like a human now."
That is, all Wang So wants is to be free (with Hae Soo), which is reinforced when he tells Hae Soo: "I want to be with you in peace, with nothing getting in our way. If that can't happen... being king or whatever else has no meaning to me."
The crown is meaningless to him without Hae Soo, but neither does he seriously consider getting the crown for Hae Soo--because he's well aware that it wouldn't sway her heart.
So really, his question, "If I were king, would you leave with me?" is 100% rhetorical. He doesn't wait for Hae Soo's answer--since he already knows it. He knows that winning the throne wouldn't also win him Hae Soo's heart. So he has no interest in the throne.
Again, during 4th Prince's talk with Yeonhwa (in E13): when she tells him that if he becomes King, "You can have everything.", he replies sarcastically, "Then can I have a person's heart, as well? If so... I will become king." He's actually mocking Yeonhwa's absolute statement, that the kingship will grant him anything in the world. Because it is not true.
What this scene shows: Wang So is not interested in the throne for itself, nor can the throne secure him what he really wants ("the heart I so desire"). So really, he isn't swayed at all by Yeonhwa's offer--as can be seen when, immediately after allegedly proclaiming that he will become king to "win over someone's heart", Wang So asks firmly, "Open up the road." That is, he still fully intends to find the Crown Prince and bring him back to the capital, so that CP can take the crown.
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Ready for a new chapter in my ongoing series Courtship, 4th Prince-style?
After Part 1, What does a boy do after realizing that he likes a girl?
Part 2, What does a boy do after being rejected by the girl he likes?
Part 3, What does a boy--and prince--do when the girl he loves has fallen in disfavor with the King?
Spoilerhere is Part 4, What does a boy do when the only girl he's ever loved still hesitates to accept him? (Spoiler stills for next week's E14-15)
1) Well, if that boy is Wang So, he certainly doesn't give up on his girl. (Pfft... As if!)
He seeks her out by day.
He seeks her out by night.
SpoilerAnd all he sees is her.
2) What Wang So hopefully also does NOT do is marry someone else--not if there's still a snowflake's chance in hell to ever win Hae Soo's heart. (Please, drama Gods, have mercy with us poor SoSoo shippers!)
Regardless of how bad this looks:
3) Instead, 4th Prince continues wooing the only girl who matters.
He takes her stargazing.
SpoilerHe charms her at the lotus lantern festival.
SpoilerI mean... just throwing the possibility out here. Since the consensus among Korean fans is, this scene has to happen during Mu's reign. Likely during a New Year's celebration, but whatever. Please, PD-nim, just gimme this scene already!!
He also takes her boating. (SoSoo ship literally full sails ahead, lol.
)
4) Wait... Boating, you say? YES, it's true: 4th Prince's unshaken devotion & persistence are FINALLY rewarded.
SpoilerHae Soo accepts his hairpin. She accepts HIM.
And Wang So... just lights up.
SpoilerAnd he keeps beaming. No joke: his joyful, unrestrained smile is brighter than the sun.
5) His heart is hers forever now. And how I love his unreserved candor & utter courage in this moment--when, for the first time in his life, 4th Prince is able to speak the most precious three words, to his most precious person:
A heart given... And a heart received in exchange.
Spoiler6) Yet dark clouds approach on the horizon. 3rd Prince returns and makes his play for the throne... again. (Why couldn't this guy just stay dead already?!)
SpoilerWang So goes berserk at the thought of Hae Soo in danger--and NOTHING will stop him from reaching her.
Not a mere bloody coup (HA!). Not the hordes of soldiers trying to stand in his way (and who really should know better... the poor suicidal morons).
SpoilerNot even his own brother--and biggest enemy.
Let the final game of thrones begin.
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On 10/6/2016 at 1:37 PM, Evangeline Yang said:From Baidu (Episode 14): 解树脱去了侍女的衣裳，重返茶美院。她与昭的感情却是剪不断，理还乱。不仅是昭，解树自己都不知道应当如何对待昭执着的爱恋。出于报复心理，昭决定迎娶王的女儿。武自然为昭愿做驸马欣喜，可昭和解树这对怨侣却心事重重。武虽在战功上得父王赏识，可在治国上仍有所欠缺，时常感觉力不从心。旭正是要借此，逼迫武禅位，让他名正言顺的登基。不过他的做法没有得到母亲的支持，皇甫氏看出他是为了解树才会做出这种大逆不道之事。而武将要再次经历阴谋造反。
[...] In summary, the above said So agreed to marry 2nd King's daughter out of the mindset of revenge (or is it disappointment)? [...]
About So getting married in E14
ETA after airing of episode: I was wrong, and my hopes were dashed after all.
Original post:
I am 90% hopeful that, while So may come very close to marrying Mu's daughter in E14, in the end he will NOT go through with it.
Below you can see all the princes in E05. Look carefully at their hairstyle:
Wearing their hair in a topknot, and thus MARRIED: (from left to right) 8th, 3rd, 9th
No topknot, and thus NOT MARRIED: (from left to right) 14th, 13th, 4th, 10th
The moment when 10th's hairstyle becomes a topknot: on his wedding day (regardless of consummation). The princes in E09:
With topknot, MARRIED: (from left to right) 3rd, 9th, 8th, Crown Prince, and now also 10th
With no topknot, NOT MARRIED: (from left to right) 4th, 14th, 13th
10th Prince already has his hair up in a topknot on his wedding day!
SpoilerIn the preview for E14, we see this:
Thought it was a wedding scene? (with the bride wearing traditional red, and a married woman's hairstyle)
BUT 4th Prince still has his hair down! Ergo, unlike 10th Prince (see above), 4th should not actually be getting married here & now. Not if there's any consistency at all in this drama (re: men's proper hairstyles).
SpoilerWould the King give his daughter to 4th as a concubine only, because she is still so young, with no expectation of consummating the marriage? I don't know, but I'm more inclined to assume that if anything, it would have to be a proper wedding, or nothing at all.
I'm aware that, in historical records, a daughter of Mu's is named as Gwangjong's consort. But it's not like this drama has ever proven itself a slave to actual history--not in any shape or form. (I mean, Wang So's scar, anyone? And how about the Hae Soo character herself?) They're really working that "fictional approach to history" angle that they've added in their disclaimer. Thus, I'm hopeful that the writer has taken some inspiration from this particular recorded fact to create conflict in the drama, but she will solve it quickly through some creative blurring of history--so as to not completely outrage SoSoo shippers.
My guess: this incident with the King's little daughter is meant to serve as Hae Soo's wakeup call: her awakening to her long-held (and stubbornly ignored) feelings for 4th Prince.
SpoilerSo deep in thought... so desolated?
Whether HS approaches 4th herself to make him reconsider, or he changes his mind alone, Wang So should NOT take a wife in E14-15--because his hairstyle doesn't change to that of a married man.
At the very end of Mu's reign, in E15 (clearly after the scene in the throne room):
Still no topknot for 4th Prince.
SpoilerSure, in that particular scene, 3rd has his hair down as well, Tarzan-style--but consider that he's been living in hiding, likely on the rough. Not much interest in grooming under the circumstances, one would suppose.
Once 3rd returns to the Palace, he resumes his proper hairstyle:
Whereas even by the time when 4th Prince is leading the rebellion against 3rd, he's STILL not styled like a married man:
Honestly, peeps, relax about 4th Prince marital status in the immediate future!
Considering how careful the K-drama has been to not really showcase the multi-wife/multi-concubine system in all its goriest details (from which the C-drama didn't shrank at all), I seriously doubt that SHR will deal such a devastating blow to the long-anticipated & still nascent SoSoo ship by changing 4th's marital status, at this particularly vulnerable moment. Otherwise, it might well kill that ship dead before it ever sails, considering Hae Soo's modern sensibilities and considering this comes at a moment when she's not fully committed to 4th yet.
SpoilerBy contrast: by the time 4th actually marries Yeonhwa, Hae Soo will be too deeply entangled with 4th, plus he'll be doing it for her, so I believe she won't leave him just for that. Though I can't imagine it'll be an easy thing for her to deal with either way.
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I could imagine the hardwork you've put to compiled all missing and deleted scenes in such detail manner, and we are all very grateful for this. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
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[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner
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@violet90 "So would [not] understand on why Soo need to get out from palace" But how can you [Soo] KNOW for sure before you actually TELL him?? I completely agree with you that the lack of communication between these 2 people drives me crazy.
"she don't discuss first with So cause nothing will make a difference..." Again, how can you know--how, how, how?... 100% certain, positive, confident without any shadow of a doubt?
"even when she get mad about CR you can see So lashing out to BA and knowing she want to leave him???" But Soo didn't get to see that. Only us[the viewers].
The last time So specifically told Soo he wouldn't let her leave him was before his marriage to Yeonhwa, at a point in time when Soo too said that she would stick with him. I know I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but if Soo changed her mind in the meantime (about leaving), why shouldn't So have changed his as well (about letting her leave)?
Disclaimer: @violet90 @whyo I actually agree with your understanding of the situation, and that the entire debacle (WS/HS relationship breakdown) is due to miscommunication and insufficient trust between them. Or if not insufficient trust (eg. the scene where they eat together, each troubled, but each staying silent) then an extreme desire to protect and avoid burdening the other which unfortunately leads to ignoring their partner's agency instead of working towards a solution together--and that attitude of keeping the other in the dark in order to protect ends up hurting their relationship the most. So it's not that I don't agree with you, but I love debating, and in this particular instance I especially feel the need to take a stand against people's unfounded prejudice, in general. And Soo's in particular, of course.
@violet90, I'm with you when you say that So won't want to let Soo go at first, that is my gut feeling and my belief--but it is still a prejudgment (because I am just guessing So's reaction before I see it actually play out) and very unfair (because without actual solid evidence I'm assuming the worst, like Soo probably does. @whyo, it is debatable if Soo really knows So so well as to know his reaction ahead of time. I suppose you're right in this instance, but I still got a bone to pick with her for not allowing room for that 0.1% chance that she's misjudging him).
Anyway, what I mean by "actual solid evidence" that would go in the way of justifying such a harsh assumption re: So's possible reaction? Maybe if So had reiterated his statement to Soo (about keeping her with him, no matter what) recently, if he had acted particularly unhinged or possessive with her--but if anything, he's been fairly distant after marrying Yeonhwa (judging by what the drama has deigned to show us). Best of all would have been to see a scene like in C-BBJX, with the heroine expressly trying and being stopped by 4th Prince from leaving him, before she asked 14th's help. If anything like what I described had happened in SHR--yes, those would be acceptable reasons to justify expecting the worst from So. But for Soo to just prejudge and assume the worst without real evidence--that is even weirder in the context of this drama, where in the past we've seen So choosing, again and again, to respect Soo's wishes. In fact, up until now, I don't think there's been a single instance where So expressly went against Soo's will (except for forced kiss in E9, which I would actually argue was an eye-opening experience for him in that it taught him a valuable lesson about being mindful of Soo's boundaries).
Essentially, I am firmly against prejudging people, in general, and in favor of giving them the benefit of the doubt, especially if they're people you love. I think that unlike in the C-drama, Soo in SHR doesn't have sufficient justification to assume the worst of So's reaction to her intended departure, and I resent that, as things stand, he's just going to be blindsided by what's to happen. Maybe Soo won't even get to tell him about her intention to leave him, so he still thinks they're fine--and then suddenly he sees Jung in Court with Yo's marriage decree in hand? That can't be okay, anyway you slice it.
That Soo has summoned Jung can't be helped now, but I hope that at least before he arrives, she warns So--not about Jung, but about her intention to leave. I mean, in real life, you don't leave with another guy before breaking up with your current boyfriend, do you? Normally. As far as I know.
And I wish SHR's writer would stop trying to shoehorn the classic scenarios from C-BBJX in the K-drama, when they don't fit the context of the K-drama well.