☆ 2 P M ★ Official Thread ☆

[Guest SxcRoA]

http://pds16.egloos.com/pds/201001/31/33/c_33.swf – A fancam of the Hanami CF behind the scenes. Taec dumps all his bags in Jay’s arms and leaves. wooyoung glances at him, but doesn’t help.

^^^ this broke my heart....

omgg 0____0

to be honest, i was really skeptical with the sasaeng's revelations and stuff, but that fancam really speaks for something! the look on junho's and jae's face really made me sad, and shocked that it seemed so real they could care less about him

im just glad khun is spared in this cuz i really like him and it'd be so sad for me to find out he's not the person i think he is

but i still don't completely buy all of it cuz it can't be that all the boys are bad, i'll just wait patiently, for what i still dont know but i wont be quick to judge

[Guest Mikko_lover]

Wow, I'm completely shocked with the extreme backlash. Some people are out for blood. You'd think that the remaining members of 2 pm personally attacked their families or something. Even if the others "betrayed" Jay as some claim, it still doesn't make sense why people even care so much. I guess you have to be pretty obsessive in the first place to react so strongly. Anyways, I hope things calm down and that this doesn't ruin all 7 guys. Would seem a shame.

[Guest achariya]

yeah i'm kinda feeling sketchy about these things and how these guys really act. do you really think that 2pm members could be that rude? they do hangout with SNSD, some of the the nicest girls in kpop. do you think that any of those girls would let that kind of additude and personality fly? i don't think that they act this way. i think that fans are just over analyzing. i really do believe that those fans are just out to bring 2pm down, just like the rest of the other people who have left their fancafes and abandoned them. like seriously? this is 2pm's roughest time, and your just going to leave them? i don't know about you, but if you are a fan, you should be there for the band to support at all times. not to abandon and leave them to let them fall flat on their face.

yes maybe these fangirls just exaggerated things b'cus now they're mad w/ the other members. yeah it could be tht way. But i told you tht i just wanted to share the infomation tht i knew. And i want to say tht i usedddd to be their fan but its not like tht any longer. I used to be a 2PM's fan when the group was consisted of 7members tht loved and cared for one another not the group tht tried to talk mini cooper abt their friend. If one of my friends was to do sth wrong, i'd do nth but forgive him. Tht's all i can say.

What I want to know is how come this stuff never came up before the conference or during Jae's tenure with 2PM. Why all this information is suddenly spilling out? It's odd how Jae and Khun are shown in a brighter light, since they are the ones who aren't getting attacked upon by the ex-Hottests.

I dont know either and also wonder why. I suppose tht its b'cus at tht time the fans wanted to protect thier idols' image from the public by not talking saying stuffs abt them in a bad way. i dont know but i, myself, feel as if im betrayed by the ones i like. I dont knowww, really. im so confused right now.

[Guest Onew_Changmin]

*read the post*

Oh crap, alright I'll risk a warning or suspension for this but really??? really??? that sounds so much like a fanfic even using small detailed facts to back it all up. Great FANFIC. *sigh* The things people believe. *sigh*

im totally agree with 'Atomsk72'..... what a great fanfic is this... even me myself almost trust it.. this post is too over.. so why do we choose to believe it..sasaeng fan accounts might be written by anti fans,,

[missyera]

Oh. my. goodness.

PLEASE STOP ALL OF THESE RUMORED FAN ACCOUNTS AND DEFAMATION of ALL THE SEVEN BOYS.

As a fellow human being, I am ASHAMED to see the such hatred and mud slinging being thrown for fellow human beings whom we really do not know in real life.

Even if you DIDN'T write those rumors, by bringing them here and posting them around means that you're also helping to spread the hatred and scepticism of all of the boys. Not six. Not One. But every single one of them.

This has really gotten extreme.

To the moderators, it is advisable to temporarily close the thread as this has really blown way out of proportion and has gotten extremely worse.

Despite what I've said before about how this thread actually has mature discussions and helps us to keep in the loop with 2PM matters, however, things seriously have spiralled out of control. There's no more maturity nor sanity going on this board anymore. Everyone is reacting on their emotions and are not thinking clearly and rationally.

The stuff that's posted on this SOOMPI thread provides even more fodder for Gossip blogs and Korean media to latch on and run away with it, and it's going to get a hell lot more messy.

Some people might say, "If you don't like it, why don't you just leave?"

Well, I'm surprised anyone can just sit back and let this madness continues.

[Guest kirbychan]

Oh. my. goodness.

PLEASE STOP ALL OF THESE RUMORED FAN ACCOUNTS AND DEFAMATION of ALL THE SEVEN BOYS.

As a fellow human being, I am ASHAMED to see the such hatred and mud slinging being thrown for fellow human beings whom we really do not know in real life.

Even if you DIDN'T write those rumors, by bringing them here and posting them around means that you're also helping to spread the hatred and scepticism of all of the boys. Not six. Not One. But every single one of them.

This has really gotten extreme.

To the moderators, it is advisable to temporarily close the thread as this has really blown way out of proportion and has gotten extremely worse.

Despite what I've said before about how this thread actually has mature discussions and helps us to keep in the loop with 2PM matters, however, things seriously have spiralled out of control. There's no more maturity nor sanity going on this board anymore. Everyone is reacting on their emotions and are not thinking clearly and rationally.

The stuff that's posted on this SOOMPI thread provides even more fodder for Gossip blogs and Korean media to latch on and run away with it, and it's going to get a hell lot more messy.

Some people might say, "If you don't like it, why don't you just leave?"

Well, I'm surprised anyone can just sit back and let this madness continues.

Ok .... If you are upset about people given their opinions .... just don't read it ...

Like U ,,, everybody else is giving their opinion ...For U is BAd BUT for them is NOT~

What can We do WE ARE HUMANS .... WE GET MAD AND HAPPY .... BUT WE ARE NOT CURSING ANYBODY ...

I DONT THINK WILL BE GOOD TO CLOSED THIS THREAD

[Guest Key]

From that saseng post;

2PM

1. Jang Wooyoung goes through a lot of different girlfriends. He’s dating someone from a girl group right now.

2. Jang Wooyoung and Ok Taecyeon bring home sasaeng fans to their dorms and sleeps with them.

3. Excluding Khun and Jo Kwon, the rest of Oneday are fake.

4. When Jang Wooyoung said “I miss you” on his minihomepage, it was towards his girlfriend.

- - - -

Wooyoung, Chansung, and Taecyeon went to a noraebang. We went to the room next to theirs and just listened to them sing. They changed the lyrics to their song and started singing ‘Park Jaebum yankee pinkberry, thanks for leaving’ and ‘thanks to you, our income is divided into 6 now, we can make more money.’

It was really disgusting. I immediately quit being their sasaeng fan after that. It’s disgusting.

How do I know it was Ok Taecyeon? Have you ever seen a sasaeng fan that wasn’t even able to distinguish the star’s voice?

- - - -

Nichkhun’s fake too, he’s playing around with 4 different girls. mini cooper man..

Ffft that's why I can't take the reports seriously. They can't make up their own darn mind on whether Khun's 'fake' or not.

[Guest yuree]

I'm not good to express my feeling but when 2PM or jype speak something, no one believe them call them baldfaced.

Then some fans who have nothing better to do in their lifes beside follow 2PM around speak and you believe.(?)

I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone but if you can obsess enough to do this kind of things, basically there're no credit left in these people. They can do anything for their obsessions. I feel sorry for all artists out there who have fans like this. If I were them, I might threat these fans the worst I can or even call a cop.

Sorry for strong respond but these kind of behaviors are discusting. Why can't people just move on?

If you don't like them anymore, you quit. I don't see the purpose of bringing 2PM together again from these type of attitudes.

[prechuz_azn]

I want some concrete evidence instead of all these stupid

"accounts."

Seriously, these people need to get a life. I feel highly disappointed in the parents

of these fans for raising such crazy and obsessive children.

Hottests who are supportive of 2PM, please click on my sig.

There are 2 different support projects that you can choose from.

[Guest achariya]

Didnt i tell you guys earlier to choose wht you wanna believe? If you dont trust the rumours, all you hv to do is just sleeping over it. Let alone w/ these stuffs okay??? Even i, myself, dont believe it 100%. I just want to tell everyone wht i know. You dont open your mind. Use ur common sense and you'll see some facts behind this story. There might be only half of the truth in it, yes it could be tht way. CHOOSE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE. You are the ones tht take this fan account too seriouss.

And one more thing i dont think tht they going around, hanging out w/ some friends at night is sth wrong. I know tht its all natural habits of all human beings. But i dont like the way they refered to Jay at the conference abt Jay's disorganized social life. Its not sth friends should do to one another. Do they dislike Jay tht much?? They hv no rights to say like tht especially when they're doin' tht too.

[Guest ducklinq]

I saw this on allkpop, I'm not sure if someone's already posted it though.

&nd I am also unsure if its true or false but when I read through it, it sounded really rational and seems to be a very accurate translation.

Not kill me if it isn't though. o.o

I’m Korean-American and have lived and gone to school in both the U.S. and Korea. I live in the U.S. at the moment, but my home is Korea, because that’s where my entire family lives. I downloaded the audio file of the 2pm-JYP-fan conference that’s been going around to hear it for myself, because I was very skeptical of most of the fan accounts that have been floating out. I’m fluent in both languages and so I hope you will trust me when I try to clear up some of the (mis)translations that have been floating about…

.

* The 2pm boys are very respectful throughout the whole fan meeting, as far as I can tell. On the contrary, I think the fans are being unnecessarily rude. The fans spent the first 10 minutes of the meeting arguing that they should have the right to film the meeting, even though the JYP rep told them several times that although he would allow audio recording, he could not allow video footage out of fear that it could later be manipulated by other people to put the 2pm boys in a bad light. On hearing this (perfectly reasonable) request, the fans burst into laughter and made many snide and condescending comments (caught on tape) about how unbelievable the JYP rep’s requests were. I could hardly believe how rude some of their words were. The 2pm boys stayed silent during this exchange, but the JYP rep did not raise his voice, and merely repeated his requests until the fans agreed. As the file went on, some rude fans interrupted the boys several times as they were replying to the fans’ questions.

* Junho never said “I honestly hated Jaebeom hyung,” as has been alleged. His words should not be taken out of context. What he did say was, “We were so excited for him to come back, and we worked hard, here in Korea, and so did Jaebeom hyung in the States. We tried to give hints to our fans that he would come back, and we worked hard to make a path so he could return. But when we heard what happened… we, too… for just one moment… we hated Jaebeom-hyung.” He said “we,” not “I” (“저희들” is plural). The way he worded it was to explain that his momentary hatred of Jaebeom was because he was so deeply disappointed that after all of their (mutual) work, Jaebeom wouldn’t be able to return… he did not hate Jaebeom for what he had done (whatever it is), but because what he had done would prevent him from returning.

* When Junho said, “We worked so hard to make a path so Jaebeom hyung could return” the fans laughed sarcastically and said, “Who made that path? Who?” And he corrected himself to say, “We all worked, both our precious fans who loved Jaebeom and us members, too, we all worked together to bring him back, didn’t we?” (Just as a personal note… I felt really sorry for Junho here. Ultimately the 2pm boys worked their incredible butts off in order to build up goodwill in the public eye after Jaebeom left, and as he said later, they never stopped thinking about Jaebeom throughout all of their performances, variety shows, etc. And for him to be attacked by the fans for saying that was so disrespectful, I think.)

* When Chansung said that they still love Jaebeom hyung, that they think of him still as a best friend, and that in the future if they miss him they think it will be okay to honestly say that they miss him, the fans laughed at him.

* One of the loudest fans was a mother (she said multiple times that she had a son around the age of the 2pm boys)—[what?!!! aren’t ajummas a bit too old to be showing up to these kinds of things?]—and she attacked the boys for throwing Jaebeom away “like human trash.” She said that no matter what your family members do, you have to hold them close and not throw them away. And she said for betraying Jaebeom (she said it’s as if they “killed him,” and left him to be the “trash of the nation”), the fans would throw away 2pm. [i’m sorry, but this kind of fan attack is just ridiculous, un-john teshing-believable.] The 2pm boys were extremely respectful in response, and asked her politely when she was finished if she would like to add a question for them to reply to. She said a few more words but again, there was no actual question. But anyway, they responded and said, “We are so sorry to have hurt you. We understand your feelings because we are hurting, too. We honestly think that silence is only way we can protect Jaebeom, and we are telling this to you from our hearts.” They went on to say that it was some issue that, out of their love for Jaebeom and their desire to protect him, they could not speak of to the fans. They said that even after they are married and have families, they will always think of themselves—“all seven of us”—as a part of 2pm, and this is why they must protect him until they die [the “until we die” part sounds less dramatic in Korean, fyi—it’s a more commonly used expression in Korean than English]. They repeated that they had to do this because they loved him, and they apologized several times.

* There are rumors going around that the 2pm boys said they could never forgive Jaebeom. This is patently false. Junho explicitly says, “We have forgiven Jaebeom.” He goes on to say that despite the fact that they have forgiven him, and though they will always love him as a brother, the mistake he made was too serious to reveal to the fans, and that they, too, would feel as shocked and speechless as the 2pm boys did if they knew what it was. He apologized for having to say that.

* Wooyoung said, “Please understand this truly, we have not thrown away Jaebeom hyung in our hearts. Please, let’s make a promise between us. Not between us 6, but between our 7 members and all of you who are here today. We promise that we are protecting him until the end.” In response, some fans laughed and ssunshineed, saying “쳇” (it sounds like “chet” but the “t” is very light) on the audio file [in Korean, ”쳇” a common way to say that you don’t believe the other person’s words. It’s very condescending and rude, unless said in a joking way among friends.. which this is clearly not].

* There was a question about whether the 2pm boys had heard the news from Jaebeom’s mouth directly, or only through the company. Junsu responded and said that they had first heard the news from their CEO, but afterwards they spoke on the phone with Jaebeom and the seven of them talked it over together, directly.

* When the JYP rep was explaining why they wrote that Jaebeom could not return because of a big personal problem (instead of covering it up with a less harmful answer), and he said that he needed to protect the 6 remaining members so that they would not be seen as betrayers/traitors to Jaebeom, many fans interrupted him to say, “But we already think that they are traitors.” [it breaks my heart to think that the boys had to sit there and hear that from their fans without even being able to defend themselves.] The rep went on to finish his answer and did not respond to those accusations.

.

Please note: this is not a complete translation. These are parts that I personally picked out because I think they help refute some of the awful rumors going around. Also, the file gets grainy and difficult to understand at some points.

And even more than that, I have a huge assignment due next week so I don’t have time to listen to the whole thing right now. This comprises about the FIRST NINETY MINUTES of the audio file… I will listen to more and add more when I get the chance, but I wanted to do this because I think this is really important, on behalf of 2pm fans who don’t understand Korean and can’t read Korean. I hope some of you find it useful. Feel free to re-blog.

————————————————————————

P.S. As a quick update, and just to clarify: some of the fan accounts that are going around *are* true. From the first 90 minutes I listened to, the following is TRUE:

* All 6 members acknowledged that they agreed to the fact that Jaebeom should not return as a part of 2pm.

* One of them (sorry, I can’t identify the voice) did say that what Jaebeom had done “is bad enough that we can’t let it come from our lips and go to our fans” and asked for understanding and forgiveness that they cannot say any more than that.

* The JYP rep did say “To put it as a metaphor, the six members, and our company, are like the victims in this situation, and Jaebeom is the attacker.” The quotation itself was part of an explanation as to why they were honest in revealing that Jaebeom had made a big mistake in his private life, and why the company was trying to protect the other six members of 2pm. I personally don’t think it was as awful as other fans seem to think, although it isn’t pleasant to hear that Jaebeom was “the attacker,” but it’s up to you as to how you want to interpret it.

* The JYP rep also said (as part of the above comment) that the six members are “just as important as one member.” He never said that the six were “more” important than the one.

* Someone (I can’t tell who—I believe it was the JYP rep) answered “Yes” when asked if Jay’s private mistake was serious enough that even if the Myspace controversy had never happened, Jay would still have had to leave the group. I’ve seen accounts that all the members also said yes, but on the audio file I hear only one voice. Maybe they nodded; I don’t know.

I’ve been following the rumors on 2OD and I believe these are the only ones I can confirm I heard on the file, for sure. Please keep in mind that 1) It’s only the first 90 minutes of the 4-hour file; 2) I can’t see their body language, obviously, so there’s nothing I can say about that; and 3) some parts of the file are staticky and difficult to understand, but I’ve done my best. I trust our 2pm boys, and I believe in them.

credits : fortyninepointfive bananas

[Guest xxbebesoul]

this was actually just a cut from the BTS of the hanami filming... afterwards taec takes it back once they film again...hehe i guess it was too heavy for taec to carry all those bags:P

Hanami BTS starts at 1:30:)

credit: oneday2thailand@yt

there are some other stuff i picked up on while watching the BTS.. but honestly I my mind is just going wonkers about this topic, and I'm probably not thinking straight..with all these different opinions in my mind right now*confused*

[Guest kiwistar]

^^^ they aren't from ONE sasaeng fan, but multiple, so two different people may see things differently. The majority of accounts seem to have Khun in a positive light, though.

I do think that the sasaeng post should NOT be posted in this thread. Regardless of your stance on the issue, it is bashing/defaming the members of 2PM. I do think that some of it is rumor, but I also believe that some of it has to be true. Reading Insider2PM's rant post made me believe that they have no reason to lie.

Also, I don't get why everyone's jumping on fortyninepointfive banana's interpretation of the interview. I have a friend who is fluent in korean as well, who takes the fan's side. I think it will suffice to say that both sides acted rude during the interview.

However, I think 2PM could've taken the 'higher road' and been more respectful. It's a fact that they know all the facts, while the fans have been manipulated and kept in the dark for a very long time. They are simply fans, while 2PM has to worry about their reputation and image. Of course, they're allowed to be human, but they can't be surprised by the backlash against them for their remarks.

Just as we cannot be too quick to believe, we also cannot be too quick to disbelieve.

[Guest boraah]

I think it's because they wanted to protect 2PM's "image". I mean they are obsessive fans. I doubt they'd want to hurt their favorite idols

I think that after the conference, something just pissed the hell out of them- something that doesn't want to make them protect 2PM; and hence, this.

If these fans knew that Jae was being mistreated by his band mates before his exile, you would think they would say something about it. Why hide it?

Also if these fans knew that Jae was being mistreated by 2PM... why continue being 2PM's fans. If I knew they were really acting like this. I wouldn't continue protecting them.

[Guest entermuriel]

hey guys. i want to link this page, because i believe that this person has a very un-biased view of the situation, even though she IS a Hottest.

even though her name and picture might seem Jaebeom biased, the post is really not.

while reading you'll see she wrote things from different perspectives and gives explanations clear.

CLICK HERE

and if i may add, i'm also one of those Jay biased fans, but who decided to not turn my back on the rest of 2PM.

but i've decided that i won't be as involved as i used to be, more like a fan from afar... if that makes sense.

in a way i seem to understand every point of view and try not to judge them... it's a tough time right now, for all 7 members and the fans

[Guest Dorkiilove]

If these fans knew that Jae was being mistreated by his band mates before his exile, you would think they would say something about it. Why hide it?

Also if these fans knew that Jae was being mistreated by 2PM... why continue being 2PM's fans. If I knew they were really acting like this. I wouldn't continue protecting them.

Because they thought that Jay was going to come back. If they released these fan accounts earlier with Jay still in the US, 2PM's reputation would have been crushed. And I doubt that those crazy fans want Jae coming back to a crushed group.

How would I know? Go ask them. I'm speculating here. Some of them are very crazy.

[Guest everybodyshout]

If the 2PM boys really did such stuff, why weren't all these out in the media during that period?

Were the sasaeng fans so expert at hiding all these from the journalists? How? To protect their 2pm's image... If all these rumours are true, 2pm's not worth protecting at all isn't it so why are the sasaeng fans so damn blinded then?

The pictures aren't scandal material at all. What's wrong with being with your friends? Are their only buddies from One Day? Are their pals only male? And they shouldn't have girlfriends? You gotta be kidding me if the answer's no, because they're boys, and hot-blooded ones who love soccer and women. (To quote from Hana Kimi's Nakatsu, Ikuta Toma lol)

[Guest Rachael08]

Honestly Who are you Kabler?

I just wanted to ask...i m really curious

you and silence457...who are you guys?

you guys have different writing styles...but now that finally febuary has approached, everything has unfolded

i m really curious

you gave us hope...asked us to be patient since we have already waited so long...

silence457 always picked up steam in this thread...& sadly all did come true afterall

so curious...

Regarding Jay's "personal mistake" i think JYPE is making it up...

JYPE is all about business...i think they got more offers and sponsorship for 1:59PM

everything seemed to be sailing well...so i guess they decided to go with flow...

why would they risk with a dented product rite?

but everything backfired...for now

but it needs to keep going on...so that JYPE will realize what a bad decision they actually made

I sided with jay in the beginning...i was angry @ 6PM

but now i think i actually feel bad for 6PM...coz they are still contracted to JYPE and can t act freely

But i m still NOT supporting them...cz that wud mean supporting the corrupted company

you know how sometimes you get this feeling, i just felt it and i wanted to share it...

[Guest orh_03]

T________________T

[Guest KamikazeKyuti]

1. Why can you unconditionally forgive Jay for any type of mistake and support him no matter what he did (other than "illegal activities"), but you cannot forgive 2pm for their decision?

I'm guessing by forgive 2PM for their decision you mean their decision to kick Jay out of the group, right? If yes, then I could have eventually forgiven them for that.

2. How are you absolutely positive 2pm betrayed Jay? How do you know it is not Jype or some unforeseen circumstance? Where is the evidence?

I don't and never claimed otherwise. The reason I feel disappointed by 2PM is because they spoke ill of Jay during the press conference. It was unnecessary to say things like he had a "dirty life", not only because it had nothing to do with the question asked but because it's like kicking someone while they're down, someone that you once liked. Seriously, I wouldn't even do that to someone I dislike. I may talk smack about people to my friends (because I need to vent my frustrations) but going in front a large audience and saying those kinds of things...it's just wrong.

3. I'm most curious of this one:

During September, why did you post here or tell your friends that anti-fans should not have dug into Jay's private life, his private conversations with his friends, or judge him solely based on his myspace comments because they haven't observed him as a whole, yet you read and spread 2pm member's rumours about their private life, you judge them based on the conference, and you don't consider all the things they have said or done in the past?

It's kind of hard not to read about their personal lives when it's being posted in public forums. Judge them based on the press conference? Well yeah, why wouldn't I? It's not like it was some secret meeting we were never supposed to know about. Maybe I'm miss understanding you about that part It's because I've considered what they've done in the past that I feel betrayed. They seemed different from how I use to see them but I suppose you could chalk that up to my own, and self admittedly delusional expectations.

4. Why do you speak so heavily of 2pm betraying Jay right after you betray 2pm? So it's okay for you to do what you hate them for? Kind of double-standard.

I no longer consider myself a HOTTEST but I don't think I've done anything to "betray" them.

5. You say it's unfair they tarnished Jay's reputation, but why is 2pm the only one receiving hate? Has Jay's reputation been tarnished at all? I don't see any of that right now. Please direct me to a source or link that shows people having a worse perspective on Jay than ever before.

I don't live in Korea so I can't fairly answer this question. I will say however, that the public probably doesn't care that the fans are feeling betrayed and think JYPE is lying. If they read up on the situation they probably only see that Jaebum has had his contract terminated because he did something horrible. They will keep on believing that until legitimate news sources have proof that he didn't do anything wrong. So, this will follow Jay around forever. Even here in America he could lose jobs because employers will research their potential employees on the internet before hiring them. If you were an employer would you be willing to hire someone that has done something so horrible that people (the six members) were no longer able to work with him?

6. If you hate 2pm so much, why do you keep checking this thread to know more about them?

I don't hate them, I'm just disappointed. But I no longer consider myself a HOTTEST so your question is still fair. I have been a fan of 2PM for nearly a year. The past 6 months have been rough on me. One moment I'm happy because the members are dropping "signs" that Jay is coming back, the next moment a rumor comes out that he's never coming back. It kept going back and forth between happiness and sadness. I nearly stopped being a fan about 3 months ago because I was tired of all of it but I kept with it because I remembered all the happy times before the MySpace scandal. So, the reason I keep coming back here and elsewhere that talk of 2PM is because I want to know how this situation ends. I held out for six months, now I will hold out until it's all resolved. It'll be easier to do this time because there is no longer an emotional attachment. It's like making it halfway though a book and it suddenly becomes different than you expected, not in a good way, but you just have to know how it ends.

I would like to add that if this horrible thing Jay did is true, then at least he admitted it. If Jay were such a bad person why would he admit to something that could and has ended his career? He obviously feels bad about it so why did the members feel the need to talk badly of him? It doesn't matter what the crime is, it can be forgiven if someone can admit their mistake, is regretful of making it, and works hard to become a better person. Then again, maybe that's just my own delusional expectations of people.