[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

23 hours ago, lovecarnation said:

yes.. i agree with you... I also don't like a forced relationship, in this case what I mean is runyu conditions , I knew he loved Jinmi too, but the way he did was "wrong" because he forced his will even though Jinmi only considered him as friend, and tragically because of this he mobilized all of his heavenly forces to attack and kill his brother, xufeng.  Even though Jinmi has told him honestly many times, she just loved xufeng and only Xufeng in her heart, why he always want to impose his will,  after jinmi was gone, he can only realize. for that, I actually strongly disagree that he occupied the emperoe at the end of the story.

 

and about denglun.. yes, he is good actor. i find he is so funny, cute and handsome , and u must know i was fascinated and impressed with his smooth, white and clean skin

 

Oh for sure, I totally agree!  My apologies, I kinda went off on my own tangent and neglected to mention my point,

 

I think for me,  it was so very nice to see that the forced relationship (RY/JM) was portrayed as an objectively bad thing, since forced relationships are portrayed as the main plot line for far too many dramas (you see it in a fair amount of Western media too).  HSALF bucks this trend completely, with RY shown as such a despicable villain.  Which is why it's so awesome!

 

 

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

 

On 12/12/2018 at 6:35 AM, angelangie said:

 

hmmm lols maybe not review but just my thoughts of the overall stories....

 

lets me see....i like the story-line as im someone who fall for fantasy easily.....however the way the plotted the thing need some serious work and they cut in unnecessary scenes ad the story instead of solidify it kinda got draggy on certain parts that we can just do without.....they repeat scenes just to drag the series on....that how they make me feels but other wise if just on story wise....yea it a pretty good story we have  

 

character wise everyone has a role to play....no extra or less needed.....everyone character is important in the story itself.....i never really one to compliment ppl acting or pinpoint it as long as they can make me believe.....and they do make me believe  but some character does get a little fake....the one that i cant stand the most will be the empress maybe because as an actress she had never impress me before.....the rest of the cast is acceptable for me......

 

if im to pick my most favorite will be XuFeng & JinMi of course   the chemistry exploded on the screen, their bickering their hurt at each other betrayal and guilt driven point....from others sin and not their own.....

 

if u ask me will i watch them again....i will but mostly to focus more on XuFeng and JinMi

 

i will gladly skip all the empress scenes though never could stand her......no i dont have anything against her....just never did like her that all......u can say im the type of viewer that tends to skip parts / character that dont bond well with me so that i can keep watching instead of folding the series into the shelve.....

 

also CDrama is really starting to be quite good....but they still need to work more on their CGI and props.....some of them feel a little fake....

HSALF is my favourite Cdrama so far.  Like between the settings, the soundtrack, the costumes, the acting (for the most part) the script (for the most part).  CGI pretty darn decent, for this type of media - far better than anything else in the genre.  Structurally, it may not be perfect, but it's very solid. 

 

My gripes would be that it drags in some places (as you mentioned) and cutting those areas completely or changing those and just enriching other areas, like some of the characters who are a bit one dimensional, like Demon Princess, Tu Yao and Sui He, etc - (gripe 2) like I appreciate that they were given at least a bit of backstory, but it could have been done far better (especially in Demon Princess & Tu Yao's case where they info dumped their stories - could have been done with a far lighter hand and sprinkled throughout, imho.  Like I would have been interested in seeing glimpse's of Tu Yao as Mu Ci described when he said he saw her often crying alone)  Characters like Tu Yao/Sui He never really irritate me the way manipulative/pushy male characters do, since they're just these cardboard cutouts that don't really exist (or rarely exist) in the world, but manipulative men are well...yeah...scary.

 

Gripe 3 would be  a socio-political one in that I would have liked to see XF less grabby/pushy, and that scene where he forces himself on her/ and the implications of his talking about it when grieving for her needs be a lot different.  

 

Gripe 4 would be some of RYs scenes run too long, especially with his mother.  (this is pretty much just gripe 2) 

I think that's about it?  Overall it's a fantastic drama and i still find my heart hurting over it occasionally

 

 

On 12/10/2018 at 2:08 AM, lovecarnation said:

yes, imposing something that is not ours sometimes not only hurts the person we love but ourselves and maybe that has been done by runyu and sui he, and maybe because of that jinmi sacrificed herself for the peace of 6 realms and dampened the xufeng and runyu disputes , and therefore she gets the highest virtue.

 

Yes, one of my favourite things about the drama is that the romance is pretty organic - like they fall for each other early on - like episode 6 (even if JM doesn't/cant understand her feelings) and sloooowlllyy.  There's no chasing.  XF admits he likes her right away when he realizes it, but he's told no by the flower fairies - and he leaves.  and he keeps trying to distance himself from her.  which is a really big deal for me since one of the worst tropes is the chasing trope/the dude forcing himself on the female lead trope.

 

Like Legend of Fuyao made me super uncomfortable since the first half of it it the male lead somewhat forcing himself on Fuyao, who was never able to best him.  It's a scary dynamic.

 

Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms I dropped since it made me even more uncomfortable with the male lead continually forcing himself on the female lead, eventually leading to a literal rape scene.  (which is when i dropped it)

 

The Eternal Love 2  does this trope too, along with Because of Meeting You, and several others including the worst offender - The Flames Daughter.  

 

To me, the aforementioned are honestly such a scary trend since they do have social ramifications.  So having such a pleasant and organic and (ok, mostly) non forceful relationship is so very pleasant. 

  

 

On 12/13/2018 at 12:12 AM, lovecarnation said:

yes... i'm totally agree with you.. i find he has a good chemistry too with sunyi on " because of meetting you". he really has a good acting performance too.

 

He's great.  I feel like he's a very honest performer.  

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

I'm so glad to see this still going and that more people are watching! 

 

I've been having a hard time getting back into dramas, really.  I was watching Martial Universe at around the same time it was out and am sorta watching The Eternal Love 2, and they're both just painfully bad.  

 

On 12/2/2018 at 7:22 PM, babysiew said:

he can choose to revenge on the heavenly empress but not playing God on ppl's love and hurt Jin MI and Xu Feng. That is my grudge towards him. 

 

On 12/2/2018 at 8:38 PM, mouse007 said:

 

@lynne22 @lovecarnation I feel sad for Run Yu because of his childhood but I, too, do not agree with his actions. He has the right to be angry toward heavenly empress but he has no right to destroy those who are innocent such as Xu Feng and Jin Mi. He knew Xu Feng already loved Jin Mi even before he found out she is Water Deity's daughter and betrothed to him. In his mind, he has the right to claim her because she had been long promised to him. But knowing that both Xu Feng and Jin Mi love each other mutually, his decision to still separate them is absolutely selfish. I also do not agree with how he played innocent Jin Mi in the scene where he purposely maneuvered things so that water deity would "accidentally" overhear his conversation with Jin Mi and making him believe that Jin Mi has mutual affection with Run Yu when Run Yu knows Jin Mi only likes him as a friend. Xu Feng at least has always been upfront with his intentions towards Jin Mi. Run Yu is underhanded.

 

 

On 12/2/2018 at 8:49 PM, lovecarnation said:

yes...i'm totally agree with you.. he has the right to be angry and repay the deeds of heavenly empress but xufeng never hurt him, he shouldn't be so cruel want to kill his own brother ... and after many times Jinmi refused his love, he still insisted on forcing Jinmi to always beside to him, until the last second jinmi sacrificed herself during the final battle, he was only willing to let her go because jinmi was gone. and well ... I still remember at the beginning of the story when he found out jinmi was his future wife, he pretended to be kind and loved jinmi in front of the god of water ,luolin so that the water god thought they loved each other

 

I think that, for me, personally, the worst thing RY has done (aside from about to genocide realms) is that he completely and utterly dehumanizes JM.  He doesn't even treat her as a full human being - she makes him feel good about himself so he just forces himself on her, regardless of her wishes (which is a part of what you guys are saying)  He is really the worst kind of dude.  (I have lots of rants about this on here lol)     

 

Some of my favourite themes in HSALF are that those with the most power fall spectacularly, that those who abused their power/hurt others were pretty much all punished for their actions, and that at the end of everything, JM/XF just live a simple life.  I like how consent was portrayed for the most part - could have been better (XF at his worst was pushy, grabby, and jealous - and don't get me started on the scene where he forces himself on her in demon realm - UGH)       

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

22 hours ago, Wotad said:

 

maybe ill change my mind later on im on episode 33 atm ;p 

I mean, I'm not one to tell anyone what to think, so you do you. 

 

For me,  my feelings are that it was fairly early on that I started distrusting RY,  and it was mostly in text.  But it was when he manipulated JM into marrying him, and telling her father that they had mutual feelings, which they never did - then leading on to subsequent other dehumanizing acts towards her  - that's when my rage towards him came in.

 

5 hours ago, poohbear8382 said:

I read on the Vietnamese news that the producer of this drama confirmed this drama will have season 2. Everything is still on plan. They said it would be hard to have the same group as season 1. I think the story of season 2 is all about XF and JM's son. I don't know how to feel about this news. Half of me feels it's a good news. Maybe they can ask Deng Lun and Yang Zi participate in this season, so there will be a chance for them to work together. But my other half doesn't have a high hope about this news. what do you think?

 

!  I don't know how to feel about this.  I mean it could go well, or it could go the other way - it's hard to tell so early in the game,  in my thoughts anyways.  Personally I like to see stories end rather than to be drug out IF there's no substance just for the sake of continuing the franchise. 

If they can do something new and have a good story line/good politics, that's cool with me.  So I guess I'm cautiously hopeful?       

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

2 hours ago, Wotad said:

Im becoming a traitor it seems now that im watching Ashes of Love im on episode 30 and im really on Night Immortal revenge side if the empress does not die ill hate this show that richard simmons does not deserve to live. 

 

Tbh, I never - (well rarely) end up disliking characters, and there's only two of them from C/K/T drama land that I could say I truly loathed - one was the main dude from Flame's Daughter, and the other was not Empress or even Sui He - it was/is Run Yu.  And it's because of his manipulation and dehumanization of JM that sets me off.  Like yeah he has every right to seek revenge on Empress, but the way he treats JM is inexcusable to me.       

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

16 hours ago, El Lieu said:

Actually, can anyone tell me what was the meaning of the hairlocks she cut and gave him?  

 

I didn't even realize she created a poem ...and the purpose of the hair?  So its easier for her to kill him?  So that he thinks she loves so he is off guard so that she can kill him at the wedding?

 

...Didn't get it....because at the wedding it didn't seem like Jinmei was 100% ready to act kill XF until she saw XF use the fire power that SH used to kill her father...then after she kills him suddenly it hit her that she actually killed him...and he screamed out his name, spit out the unfeeling pill, and fainted...

 

 

 

 

 Do you remember, when JM has the three years to grieve for her father before marrying RY?  At one point, we see that Moon immortal has come to visit her, and has brought her books to read.  During one of his visits, they talk about one of the books she read (I think it's the one Moon wrote) In the book, a mortal and an immortal have a love affair.  In the end, the mortal stabs the immortal in the toe/foot, thus killing the immortal since that is where they kept their essence, basically. 

 

Sooo, JM gives XF her lock of hair, assuming he'll put it in his essence - as she believes, without a doubt that he was the one that murdered her father - so this gives her access to his life, basically.  She tells him that the poem is about him and gives him a lock of her hair - which really shows a streak of deviousness on JM's side.  I don't feel like JM had intended to kill XF outright - but it gave her the upper hand, anyways.  Then, with RYs very careful choice of words, XF's use of glass fire in a fit of rage over the murder of his right hand man and then, the 'ghosts' of those murdered literally surrounding JM, things went down as they did. 

 

That's how I read it , anyways.  

 

(as always, correct me if I'm wrong)           

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

Oh gosh that review had me kinda teary eyed.

 

I think I'm going to have to re-watch again soon.    

 

One of the philosophies I loved from it was how corrupting power can be/is,  not only for those who covet it, but those who have it.  It really honestly is such an intelligent drama in so many ways.      

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:05 PM, El Lieu said:

Actually I am confused.....the part jinmi die in moral realm.....before she died she remembered her friend yongyong....kind of didn’t make sense to me...and then jinmi dies ...she becomes ghost?

 

so when she was a soul watching Xf drink poison ...was she a ghost or her goddess form?

and then when xf dies in the coffin his soul ghost form comes out or he is back a goddess as well...?

 

 

 

(sorry, apparently didn't see this when I posted earlier)

 

The friend is Rou Rou (肉肉 - which actually translates to Meat Meat - lol!  But I learned fairly recently that a Succulent -Which is what kind of plant Rou Rou is - translates to Meat Plant in Mandarin)

I feel the scene makes sense, to me anyways, since JM is very close to death at this moment anyways, and Rou Rou died in her arms a second time, jogging her forgotten memories - so it could be both factors.

 

As for her being a "ghost " I think she's back in her immortal form.  Remember how the Goddess of Fate checked in on JM at the beginning of Mortal realm arc?  When she was invisible to the mortals?  We know that immortals can choose to be seen by mortals (as we see throughout the series) But JM probably realizes she can't just materialize in front of him.  I think there was also something about gods not interfering in mortals' lives too, correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Those are my thoughts anyways.    

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

Yeah, the timeline was for sure a hitch. 

 

ETA: Though I suppose time might feel different if you're an immortal being who lives thousands of years ??? 

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

15 hours ago, El Lieu said:

 

Okay I didn't understand the last conversation the two brothers had before they made up...this is after she dies and XF goes back up to rid his brother of the demon in him....his brother tells him that it was he who amended the unfeeling pill that he saw how she fell in love with XF ….that whole thing about calculation...he said he miscalculated the beginning and XF miscalculated the ending...then XF said he never calculated..etc...what do they mean? so phylosphical...

RY and XF think completely differently.  RY gambles, manipulates/gaslights and calculates.  He says straight up "If I had met her first..." but in reality, the first dude she meets is Carrot, and then Yan You/Pu Chi - but she has no feelings for them and really, love does not function like that.  Its not who you meet first.

 

XF thinks with his heart.  He falls for JM slowly and loves her for who she is (likewise, JM feels the same way about him)He's never manipulated her, nor calculated anything - he just loves her for her.  RY, in my maybe not so humble opinion, loves the way JM makes him feel.  We can tell he's star struck the moment he sees her and thus begins his obsession with her.  And this parallels the Heavenly Emperor "loving" (read: obsessing over/wanting to possess)JM's Mother and Water Deity's pure love for her Mom.  

 

This is echoed when JM  comes to grips with RY when she outright states things like:

 

"You don't know what love is"

and

"You made me kill the person I loved best, the person who loved me best"

 

Quote

Haha after watching this series I can't tell which series like better three worlds three lives or this one..

 

In the part after he gets revived and she turns into bunny she visits him and its the first time they actually see each other face to face for how long? and he pretend to be drunk...it is crazy that he still longed and wanted her even after she killed him (expecially since he thought she betrayed him and she told him she didn't love her)….I can see how sickening that would be for a guy to still want a girl after that...imagine if she really didn't love him and it was another strategy to kill him....no one he said he look down on himself like poison....I think in the book they actually had another multicultivation but in the drama they left it to the kissing that's it...?

It was subtly hinted that they mutually cultivated then -  when XF is grieving JM and flipping through her drawings.   

 

Quote

I wish in the book and drama they elobrated how he found her 500 or 5000 years later...poor guy in book had to wait 5000 years though....I guess though its great to be immortal...can die and then get resurrected.....so buddha etc is still over these heavenly immortals they still are like humans with extra power and longevity...

 

There was a scene of the Buddha lady (I cant remember her name - but she's Water's master.) where she told him where (& when) to wait for her.  

 

2 hours ago, lynne22 said:

 

For me it meant that Xu Feng has always been sincere and honest towards Jin Mi, as opposed to Ren Yu who approached and manipulated Jin Mi for his own gain. 

^^^^

12 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

concept of detiny.. he would have married and given birth to a girl.. XF's love interest..

 

that's how fate works  and since JM is half or rather looks more like her father demeanour wise, she would still be part JM.. same happy kid.. because she would come from a happy family .. story would repeat itself

RY is better than his father..he was loyal to JM atleast .. although his reveng is priority one but JM is priority two.. as in he would go all out to protect her while taking his revenge... the book makes it clear brothers are not close to each other since always.. but drama changed this to show brothers were close..

I don't follow your logic here, I will agree to disagree lol!

 

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

On 9/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, enigmatic_zephy said:

just a correction, what i gather from the last scene where phonenix's mom iss in jail and accuses his dad of his wrongdoings, RY wasn't born because his mom reminded heavenly lord of flower deity..

 

it was a well planned strategy.. it was planned that she will be made to meet heavenly lord alone, that he will pursue her.. all of this because he had to have a first born from another woman but not heavenly goddess (because of marriage thing or to pay for some of his other crimes... and phoneix's mom needed a scapegoat for all of that before she gives birth to her precious)

I went back and checked and this is what I found out:

Episode 28 (around 35min in) We find out by Su Li that she was a Princess and about to be married.  She follows her father into Heavenly Realm for the Heavenly Empress' Birthday Banquet but goes off on her own and stumbles into the library where she per chance meets the Heavenly Emperor.  They begin a relationship.

 

Yan You remarks "At that time Heavenly Emperor was pursuing Flower Deity"

 

Su Li remarks "For power (backing of the bird tribe) he married Tu Yao, not Zi Fen(Flower). He seduced me because she and I look a bit similar.  What he's looking for in me was just the shadow of Zi Fen."

 

Fast forward toe episode to episode 37: Tu Yao is imprisoned and talking to Heavenly Emperor:  Flash back where Heavenly Emperor was (I think newly)married to Tu Yao, but asks Moon and Lao Jun about removing her station:

 

"Tu Yao's actions are all against our aim.  She can't bear the duty of being a heavenly empress"  

 

He then asks them "I want to make someone else the Empress...What about Flower deity?"

 

They deny him, stating that it the power structure is weak at the moment and that he needs the backing of the bird tribe (LJ) and that it's bad form to divorce the Empress/you should be an example.(Moon)

 

Back to the present - Tu Yao says:

 

"That (Su Li) looked just a bit similar to her (Flower).  You clearly knew you were just using her, but you developed affection for her."

 

On 9/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, enigmatic_zephy said:

****************

water god would have fallen in love with someone else.. given birth to a girl.. major part of JM reincarnated..

phoneix would still have been born

Not necessarily.  I mean maybe he might have fallen in love with Wind(or someone else - but we can't know that.), but never would have been forced to marry her because of Emperor's jealousy.  He may have been a father to a girl, or a boy or maybe twins or maybe he wouldn't have children at all.   

  

Definitely XF still would have been born 

On 9/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, enigmatic_zephy said:

RY would still have been born because daddy is a cassinova

See, here's my thoughts:  (not speaking for the book, since I just kinda skimmed it) Emperor falls "in love" with Flower, but in the same way RY "falls in love" with JM.  They both want to possess those women and are literally obsessed with them.  Heavenly Emperor is talked out of marrying Flower, so he sees Su Li,  and uses her since he cant "have" Zi Fen.  Would he have had something with Su Li if not for Flower?  We don't know.  He might have fallen for her instead of Flower or maybe he wouldn't have fallen for her at all.  If he doesn't fall for her at all = no RY.  

 

So far in the drama - we find out that the Emperor is somewhat flirty, but his promiscuity *seems* to only be directed at Zi Fen, and when he can't wed Zi Fen, it goes to Su li.  If Flower Deity never existed; would he be obsessed with someone else?  We don't know. (We might be able to assume not, because of the whole "fate" thing) There would be no RY, anyways. - it might be another child  (since different mother.) but that child would not be RY.         

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

3 hours ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

My Question is:

If nature decides the course and takes it upon itself to keep correcting the course with every little deviation,

what are we humans meant to do?

I think this could be side stepped is HSALF universe since they are all immortals/gods.  But I do get your point and it yeah  - this is a huge (and frightening)topic that philosophers still today talk about. 

 

3 hours ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

 

Karma, nature, and fate go against an active ,responsible life choice

 

When someone does something wrong, the victim doesn't deserve it, the perpetuator is wrong no matter what.

If nature ruled everything, people would simply give up on labor

 

Although i get what you are saying.. and well in my observation too, for lack of better words, have seen karma play out.. more like newton's reaction vs action..  and every action gets its reaction in this lifecycle itself.. but indeed there is something carrying over - call it fate/previous karma/or reactions to others actions adn one's own environment..

 

E.g. you born in slum are doomed to a life nobody would want.. but was it just a byreaction that you were born where you were born.. or really fate/karma playing a role

In regards to the HSALF - Someone in an earlier post said something to the effect of JM/XF saying screw you to fate and taking it into their own hands - Flower deity shouldn't have survived = JM shouldn't have been born = JM and XF shouldn't be together.  

 

Now I'm left wondering what would've happened if Flower deity/JM never existed.

 

Wait -

 

RY probably wouldn't exist.  Since Heavenly Emperor most likely wouldn't have chased his mom (since she reminded him of Flower deity)

 

Ok hold on I need some time to process this.

 

To go back to real life - you definitely raise interesting questions and I certainly don't have answers to them.  But I think I could possibly point out that in our reality, those with the most are without a doubt the least human, and those people/companies/etc actively pursue measures that keep people in destitution and wanting.  So where does that put karma/fate?  Will the 1% get their just dues?  

 

p.s. I honestly love this forum, guys.  Thanks for everything!        

    

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

3 hours ago, lynne22 said:

I really love HSALF, despite some issues with additional story for Demon Princess. . I think this story is smartly written. 

If it retains the original 43 eps, it would have been even better. But.. I'm not gonna complain anymore it is what it is.... I've re-watched this story a lot... and tbh right now I'm just happy that the add story is for Demon Princess who is still a likable character LOL.

I'm having so much trouble letting go - I don't even know what to do with myself, lol.  

 

I don't mind most of the additional  stories, as everything tied in nicely - but I do think they lasted a bit too long.  Like Demon princess is a pretty cool character - but I think they overdid it on her and Mu Ci's arc by a bit, at a detriment to LY's character.   RY's Mom storyline also drug a bit, imho.  Those two storylines were a bit too drug out and could have been handled better and not as heavy handed, if that makes sense.  But what's done is done so, yeah - like you said - there's no point in complaining.  

 

3 hours ago, lynne22 said:

The element of foreshadowing, machination plot, Greek tragedy vibe and what if scenario in the Mortal trial arcs is really interesting for me. 

I'm not sure how to say this.. But I think the script writer put the Mortal trial arc in the middle to foreshadowed and show us events that are going to happen in after they return to the heaven realm (rebellion, sui he's involvement), what could have been (if she trusted him because in this Mortal realm, she help him, while in the heaven realm she didn't), and what will still happen anyway (her death). The what if is pretty strong for me.

YES.  Very good thoughts here.  It was very smart to put the Mortal Realm in the middle.

 

 

3 hours ago, lynne22 said:

But then again.. maybe it's just my imagination.. I mean the mortal realm's arc do exist in the book, the only difference is the timeline when It happen . The cynical side of me think that they add it to stretch the story... LOL but this one I can forgive.. 

What matter is... their time in the mortal realm is truly their happiest time... I just adore watching it.

I definitely think the Mortal realm was instrumental in the drama - it's where the yundan cracks and JM learns what love is(from the frost flower in her heart), and most importantly (we the audience and JM herself) learn/s that she is, in fact, in love with Xu Feng.  If the Mortal Realm doesn't exist - that probably would change the XF character.  It also would take away much of JM's agency, and a big period of her growth.  She's a doctor in Mortal realm  (who is knowledgeable about impotence) so this whole arc is super important as JM "grows up" = understands about love & sexuality.     

 

I love the scenes where he's deaf/mute, in Mortal, (as Yaya) but I feel as Yi, he's a too bit pushy (just in text) and jealous as he tries to woo JM.  Maybe it's just me overthinking.  I mean to his credit, he's unknowledgeable in love and gets bad advise from his man.  However - he does let her make the first move and does not touch her and lets her make the first move.  The "Are you really willing to marry me?"  Line was very important to me too.    

 

3 hours ago, lynne22 said:

 

Ok, right now, I want to say a bit about how I feel like the war is inevitable, as it will happen anyway, because of how the cycle that has happen since their parent's time, and repeated again in their time. All the series events that has happen in the story leads to the war. It is bound to happen in one form or another. And Jin Mi dying is what essentially stops the the destructive cycle between Jin Mi, Xu Feng and Ren Yu. That's why Jin Mi's decision to sacrifice her life for me is the right choice. And even though I know it will be heartbreaking for Xu Feng to accept, but I am so proud of Jin Mi at that time. It is fated from the start, and there's no escaping fate.

 

I'm not sure I'm I'm making any sense here. But I fell like there is an overarching theme in the story about karma, cause and effect that happen in the story.

 

I used to blame the Heaven King the most for everything that happens, because everything (the first cycle of hatred) started when he plays with three woman's heart, causing their future children to suffer the backlash and karma of what happen in the past. 

 

But looking back, and remembering Lady Doumu's word about Mercy. I do have a different opinion

 

This is what got me thinking why are this cycle/karma happening to them?? When did it start? 

The first cycle happens to: Heaven King, Flower Deity and Water Deity. In the process, Heaven Queen was also drag in. Resulted with Flower Deity's death.. but the cycle didn't end here because it is being continued by her daughter, and also Heaven King's sons.

 

My thoughts are everything that has happen is Nature/Fate to correct the natural flow of life. Because everything happen because of one act of Kindness of young Water Deity to save Flower Deity, she was not supposed to make it. Thus there will be consequences. Nature ask for everything to be corrected. Thus Flower Deity (and Jin Mi) had to die. Everything has already foreshadowed. When It was mentioned by Doumu Lady, Jin Mi and Water deity just won't listen. That's why for me I'm Ok, and I can understand Jin Mi's death.

 

Her Resurrection for me is another matter of how fate if kind and just. She did a good thing, and thus She is granted a second chance of life. And there is a sense of beauty in there that is a blessing for her and Xu Feng.. T_T finally they can be free of the endless destructive cycle in the past.

 

Now, ignoring that this story is written by the scriptwriter, let's talk about the last event before the war, and consider what I say about fate and how all the series of events do leads to the war.

Do you ever wonder will Xu Feng and Liu Ying's trap for Sui He in the wedding work without Jin Mi? My answer is YES! It will still work.

But without Jin Mi there, there is no need for Heaven to start a war with the Demon.  

With Jin Mi there, adding Ren Yu's jealousy of Xu Feng and possessiveness of Jin Mi, it happens.

At least this is how I view it.

 

When Xu Feng died all I felt is the injustice done to him... but Jin Mi's death, brings me a sense of rightness. There is no other way to put and end of this endless cycle of violence. Ren Yu will never stop as he is in the point of no return, while Xu Feng will have to defend himself all the time against Ren Yu, while  it's equally tragic for Jin Mi to will always going to be stuck in the middle. Thus her death is right. It basically broke the cycle of violence that happens since their parents time. 

 

Ps. still hate the heaven king and Ren Yu. 

You're making sense, to me! Nice analysis. 

 

At this point, XF -probably- cannot win against RY and the only things going to stop RY is if :

 

RY "obtains" JM = XF probably dies or is imprisoned. demon realm is more heavily subjugated or even wiped out

RY dies in battle = utter chaos ensues between the realms, Heaven would probably try to off XF

XF dies in battle  = RY "takes" JM, (JM at this point would most likely kill herself), demon realm subjugated/wiped out

JM dies in the hands of both brothers - RY is stopped with 'minimal' (for lack of a better word) casualties, peace is restored

 

The only other solution (which would have been the best) was is RY got a hold of himself and been all "Oh right JM is a living breathing person with her own wants and desires and she has no feelings for me and in love with XF.  Maybe I should stop all this nonsense."  But he already hit that tipping point, when he about genocided Flower realm and is even more corrupted by Qiong Qi.  

 

One of the best things about HSALF is that the stakes are so high.  Like there is so much on the line - and you care about the characters so it is very effective.    

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

9 hours ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

ha h aha.. you are worse than me

I atleast have 2 dramas i said nice things about

 

really appreciate the response though.. thanks .. BTW, you saved me.. was planning on starting flowers in fog..t hat's DL's 1st drama.. he he.. now won't

 

 

Anyone watching, fights break sphere

Haha oops - yeah I tend to be highly critical of media.  I think a lot of it stems from being aware how it can profoundly affect us, shape our worldview - and hold onto (often dangerous) status quo.        

 

Oh, and just because I didn't like Flowers in Fog - doesn't mean you wont!  Always worth a try to watch at least one episode. 

 

Some fun dramas that I've enjoyed (though that aren't without fault, and have their own issues) are Candle in the Tomb, I Cannot Hug You, and The Eternal Love (not to be confused with Eternal Love/10 Miles)   They're all on viki.    

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

On 9/24/2018 at 11:45 PM, enigmatic_zephy said:

lol.. looks like everyone is watching sweet dreams..

me totally for DL.. although its not boring when i watch it, but if i drop it. .i don't feel the urge to go back to it.. unlike sweetness.. that i completed over 2 days

 

 

***************

 

do we have access to subbed DL stuff besides the drama?

 

*************
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

what other dramas can i watch?

- sweetness liked

- ten peaches - watched, still like sweetness more, although thsi drama is good too

- legend of fuyao - bored to death

- b'ful love - adorable

- meteor - on hold, lost the drive

- O2O - meh except for yang yang

- NIF - hmm, on hold..lost interest

- bloody romance - on hold

 

don't want bad print/super old dramas unless they are exceptionally great

preferably recent (completely subbed ones) (not princess agent or king's woman or flame daughter.. just don't feel excited with the teasers)

 

Romance preferred

awesome fights/superpowers def preferred

 

 

 

 

 

There's some stuff on viki - 

 

Because of Meeting You (on Viki) - I wasn't a big fan of.  Skipped quite a bit in the beginning, as the the whole "Nice Lady vs Jerk Lady" was so overdone  and dramatic.  (I was actually rooting more for the lady who was supposed to be mean) And oh god the abuse the main character goes through was ridiculous.  I liked parts of DL's character.  I like that he's smart and that wicked sense of humour, and some other aspects -  but disliked how the writers used the old chasing trope.  Also disliked the really conservative viewpoints.  And most of the characters were awful oh my god.  

 

Princess Agents (On Viki) - cool story, but hated the main lead dude in it "Oh I like you so I'm gonna force myself on you since I don't know how to communicate".  DL has a weirdly written character that he SOMEHOW pulls off and basically steals the entire show.  Also not a fan of those scenes where horses are injured - some of them looked a bit too real, and I hope none of them were actually hurt during it.  I may have skipped some episodes of this one, I can't remember 

 

Flowers in Fog (I googled it - cant remember where I found it) I couldn't watch this one.  I think I lasted 2 episodes.

 

Ode to Joy 1&2(Viki) - I skimmed through them.  Most of the male characters were awful, and it was just kinda boring.  There's not much here for me to want to keep watching, nothing of note politically, and maybe of some note socially, but not much.

 

Moment in Peking (on Viki, but not fully subbed.)  I think I saw the first episode, and skimmed through it a bit - but don't bother - it's not worth your time.  

 

 

 

          

  

(Whooo was able to get back onto my first account)

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

2 hours ago, jehnnny99 said:

Just to add - I followed this thread from the first week watching the raws, and still loved it. But, I'm watching the viki subs now, and the political aspects of the drama are so nicely done! For example, episode 6, they introduce/explain the ice weapon that JM used to kill XF with. It's a small detail, but I think the writers are great for being conscious of these little details ( another example - the powerful lotus fire power thing that only XF and the Empress can use, which explained why XF was not entirely convinced when JM told him SH killed her father ). All the details and little clues tied together to make the flow of the story logical, and for a wuxia, I admire the efforts of the team for that ( even though on viki, people were still misunderstanding things that were obvious or had been explained lol... but I won't get into that )

 

Anyway, I'm glad the thread is still thriving and more people are giving their wonderful analysis' on the drama! Personally, HSALF and Goblin were the best dramas I watched during 2018, I'm glad both are getting the attention they deserve 

 

I went back and forth for awhile, from raws to translations,  on different sites, then re-watched on Viki.  I'll re-re-watch again for sure.   TBH, I don't even really have the heart to watch anything else - I started Martial Universe at about the same time as I started HSALF, which I thought was kinda fun at the beginning but is just a giant mess that is super hard to watch, especially narrative wise.  I feel spoiled by HSALF - As you said,  they really did tie everything together, in a way that utilizes details throughout the series, making it super coherent.  It really is such a good production.  You care about the characters, they learn and grow, they make mistakes, they're very human in their complexity. 

 

I LOVE seeing political and sociopolitical (god why do I sound so pompous?) themes that are well done and that question society.  I love how the theme of power is portrayed, how those who are the most selfish,and manipulative literally end up with the least.  I mean RY is ultimately forgiven, (in the end) but he is still punished, and that punishment will last a long time.       (And to note,  the capitalist societies that most of us live in today often reward manipulative and selfish people/companies the most, as they will do everything to get their way)

 

Don't get me started on Viki misunderstandings, lol.  I have to wonder how much people have been actively watching to get some things so confused.

 

"XF is just like his father" Um how?  Has no desire for power and barely looks at women.

 

(during mutual cultivation )  "Does JM know what is happening?" I mean she was a doctor in the mortal realm who thought Yi was impotent soo... 

 

*Angry at XF for trying to 'steal' JM from RY* Well, considering RY lied/manipulated his way into that, since he wanted to force JM by his side, go off, I guess.  Also JM is a human person, not an object, it's not her fault she has no feelings for RY, and feelings are never owed to anyone. And ideas about deflowering/virginity as a way of determining the worth  of women are SUPER outdated and gross.  

 

"RY deserved better"  Um no.  did we forget he almost committed genocide to flower realm? And would have done the same to the Demon realm?  And started a war over a woman who wanted nothing to do with him at that point?  A woman he was literally abusive to? (not physically, but he used her, lied to her constantly, manipulated her and imprisoned her)    

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

On 9/20/2018 at 10:58 PM, missnymeria said:

 Well, I've kind of resigned myself that, in a Chinese drama, no child will ever really turn against his parents, no matter how evil they are. In Ashes it was already pretty extraordinary that Xu Feng opposed his mother so strongly regarding the position of Crown Prince and his marriage to Sui He. Also, he did strongly attack her when she was trying to kill Jin Mi. But that's the extent of his opposition and he was willfully blind to many of his parents' faults.

Yeah, I've seen some super abusive parents in cdrama land that really don't deserve forgiveness be forgiven time and again and yikes, don't like that! 

I think even how blind XF was to his parents faults, it does makes sense for his character since his brain doesn't operate the way the empress/emperor/RY's does.  Like he has no ulterior motives and doesn't scheme.  (I don't think this makes him dumb, either - as some people do, nor do I think that being manipulative = intelligence)  Even when he starts to see faults, he's still hoping that the Empress will change and then when it comes down to it, be forgiven.  His heart comes before cunning logic.     

 I can imagine he doesn't know how to deal with (and ultimately doesn't deal with well enough) the fact that his mom is instrumental in killing Flower Deity, Wind and Water/harming JM.  Like when he fights with his mom about JM, he still clings to the hope that his mom will stop.  (and of course she doesn't, she escalates) 

I dunno, maybe I'm projecting, but that's how I see it.        

 

 

On 9/20/2018 at 10:58 PM, missnymeria said:

 

As for trusting Sui He, I thought I would hate that part of the drama before watching but I actually didn't. I think it was more about survival than anything else. He felt so destroyed by Jin Mi's betrayal and her alliance with Run Yu that he had no choice but trusting in someone who had seemingly abandoned everything for him. Although one could argue that after being betrayed to such an extent, he should have been in paranoid mode, not trusting any one ever again. But that was never his personality and the fact that he was so alone and dependent on others made it impossible not to rely on the few people supporting him..

Exactly.

 

On 9/20/2018 at 10:58 PM, missnymeria said:

 

After he realized how much he still loved and desired Jin Mi in spite of everything, he resolved to sever all ties with her at all costs and once he started down that road, he had no choice but to trust Sui He. But it's clear he was tortured all along and was afraid that he'd chosen to trust the wrong person. He had also just been expelled from the ranks of the immortals, which cast him adrift from everything he had ever known. Sui He was similarly alone in the world and he could relate to that.

 

The moment a third party (the uncle) started to say the same things as Jin Mi did, he started to waver and be suspicious. Now the question is, Would he have acted on his doubts and suspicions had he not seen Sui He's scar? I want to believe he would have investigated things before going ahead and marrying her but that's just pure speculation.

I like to think he would have too.  Just little things here and there - I don't feel like he ever fully trusted SH, and probably wouldn't have even gone as far to ask her to marry him, if he weren't trying to 'protect' himself from JM.  But as you say, they are in a similar situation SH would be an ally.   

 

19 hours ago, ayang23 said:

Thank you so much!!!!!!!! ❤

Any time!

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

9 hours ago, ayang23 said:

 

 

On the other hand, does anyone know if the instrumental ost for ashes of love is out?! I've been trying to find it...but no luck!

 I ended up buying the soundtrack on google music - I haven't listen to the entirety of it yet - but am pretty sure there are instrumentals on there - I know I hit at least one of them so far.

 

https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/album//群星/香蜜沉沉燼如霜+(電視劇原聲帶) 

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

20 hours ago, Yui. said:

 

Yes! Thank you for pointing this out. Consent makes the theme of this drama too. XF asks for consent upright and Night "tricks" for consent b/c of JM's influence under the unfeeling pill. And if you think about it the previous Emperor basically never asked for consent when he met JM's mom and Night's mom.

 

Good catch. 

I've been thinking about this  and I think one of the best things about HSALF is how they frame the building of the romance between LM/XF.  They worked together for 100 years, and XF falls for her slowly, and never really "chases" her (maybe in the mortal realm as King Yi, but I suppose you could argue he's kind of an idiot when it comes to romance, as he keeps getting bad advice from his man, lol).  When he realizes how he feels about her (and has regained consciousness, lol) he tells her straight up.  Boom.  He doesn't force himself on her (ok, well there was the time when he acts sick and kisses her then).  And importantly we can see the shift in JM's feelings towards him - there are little glimpses early on (like when JM realizes he's actually quite kind and not just a moody bird)  We see in I think episode 8, where XF goes to meet JM, but is turned away by the flower fairies and he promises to never see her again.  !!  He does NOT go on a rampage to find/take JM away, he just leaves like a dejected puppy.  and  here is where we find out how much JM cares for him, as when she leaves, she faints/has the dream about the frost flower in her heart (I want to tell him that I like him) These scenes are so important (for me, at least, anyway) in setting up that JM is a key player and not just an object for the men to acquire.     

 

I cannot stress how much I hate the chasing trope, like it can die in a fire.  To go back to Sweet Dreams, (which I actually like, despite its obvious shortcomings), they flipped the script. and had DD do the chasing, which was an admittedly interesting dynamic, even though chasing is bad no matter who is doing it.  (and by this I mean it is bad to force/manipulate anyone to be with you)

 

To be honest, (and I might get flack for this) I HATED 10 miles/Eternal love.  I dropped it after that scene where he magics away her clothes, especially after feeling super uncomfortable with the way the main male lead continually forces himself on the main female lead.  Like that scene was a rape scene.  She had no say, he locked her in the room with him and forced himself on her.  She had no agency. 

 

There was another drama, called Flames Daughter, which I ended up hate watching (yeah..I'm not going to do this anymore, lol) Now this one is where I despised the male lead, like he belongs in a dumpster ON FIRE.  He forces himself on the female lead CONTINUALLY,  tells people they're married, when they're not even a couple, not to mention he's like 100+ years older than her and literally knows her father before she was born, and asks to take her away when she turns 18. Not to mention several other absolutely vile things (lies to her constantly, takes away her memories so she'll marry him etc etc).  like WTF writers? (I actually have a story idea about a knight who chops off fingers of men who repeatedly touch her without her consent,  because I was so mad at this drama.)   

 

This was also my problem with Fuyao - like the way Wuji overpowers Fuyao continually, where she's trying to defend herself and he's all cocky and fresh about the whole thing  - they frame it as 'sizzling hot chemistry'  UH?  Those scenes just made me super uncomfortable as FY is trying to defend herself but can't since the power dynamic is in WJ's favour, 

 

I mean HSALF is not perfect, but it was sure a breath of fresh air compared to so many other dramas from the world over, not just cdrama land.                  

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

7 hours ago, missnymeria said:

 I read these scenes a bit differently.

 

For me, Xu Feng utterly gave up on lying to himself and fully embraced the fact that he loved Jin Mi too much to let her go right after the wedding. He forgave her, only he didn't tell her in so many words because he still had his pride to consider. Hence Jin Mi's words as she's dying: "Idiot. You finally admit it" --> ie you should have told me last night. The loving words he said during the wedding were his true thoughts but he only felt free to say them because he knew that they would help with his plan of pushing Sui He to her limits.

 

Definitely agree with this

 

7 hours ago, missnymeria said:

As mentioned by another poster above, from the moment Xu Feng sees the stone change color and discovers it was Jin Mi under the veil, he considers himself truly and irrevocably married to her. But it must have hurt both his pride and his heart to discover that Jin Mi wasn't acting of her own volition and even revealed it to the whole room. The fact that she took off her wedding dress didn't help matters either. 

 

YES.  I totally understand JM's pov, though, like she thinks he hates her.  

 

7 hours ago, missnymeria said:

He's pretty vulnerable in the post-wedding scene, a bit like a wounded beast. His emotions must be all over the place and he plays it a bit hot and cold. He's finally learned all that Jin Mi sacrificed for him and he feels incredibly guilty. He finally acknowledged the fact that he was still in love with her and forever would be not matter what she did but the fact that she did kill him is still a raw wound. He almost can't believe his dearest wish of being married to her has been granted and feels vulnerable when he thinks he's the only one wishing for a true marriage. He knows everything that has happened in the past is too messed up and entangled but he's willing to grasp onto the chance he's being given of starting again, as equals. And that's when he repeats his words from the wedding, if only in his head. He has no audience to play to and he frees himself by saying them once again. As mentioned above, Xu Feng is a straightforward guy. He doesn't lie. Well except when he was desperately trying to sever all ties with her as a matter of survival but that's another story.

 

I believe he needed more time to fully process everything in order to have a better conversation and understanding with Jin Mi. But the war happened the very next morning. It can actually be seen as good thing too because there's nothing like seeing your loved one dying in your arms to cut through all the richard simmons. His pride, all that was left unsaid and all the misunderstandings became a moot point. It was the perfect reset.

 

You said this far better than I did, thank you.

 

7 hours ago, missnymeria said:

I think Xu Feng fully believes her when she says she had nothing to do with Run Yu's plans for war. And as he says: "It's not you I don't trust, it's Run Yu". Now that he's in possession of all the facts, his brain functions at full power and he clearly knows that the Jin Mi of the past was too naive and inexperienced to have plotted anything with Run Yu and the Jin Mi of today has done too much for him to betray him again.

 

As to why he takes her with him to the battlefield, I think he couldn't have done anything else. The safest place for her was probably next to him. The Flower Realm was under attack and anywhere else would have left her vulnerable to a kidnapping from Run Yu while he was stuck on the battlefield.

 

Yup - as I said before, though in my jumbly way (lol), RY was beyond the point of no return here, doing everything in his power to aquire JM. there was nothing that was going to stop the war. 

 

7 hours ago, missnymeria said:

 

And there's a logic to him provoking Run Yu. He knows full well that he's handicapped by both the pill backfiring and the fact that he gave up half his cultivation the night before. His only chance to win the battle is to make Run Yu so mad that he would act rashly and make a mistake. Also, he's proud (in the good sense of the word) that he managed to nab Jin Mi as his wife and he isn't ashamed of boasting about it. Plus it needed to be made clear that Run Yu was not attacking for rightful motives so as to preserve the reputation of the Demon Realm. Although I do agree that it was also sweet revenge on Run Yu. The fact that Jin Mi was going to marry Run Yu really grated on him and he reacted very strongly when he learned that Jin Mi Had run away (although he didn't dare believe it was true). So he was like a boastful teenager claiming "I got the girl".

These are all excellent points, and most I hadn't thought of.  I still feel for JM who is inevitably hurt by his words, and in a way, objectified.  

 

7 hours ago, missnymeria said:

If Run Yu had backed down after learning that Jin Mi had married him, he wouldn't have attacked. He didn't want this war but he knew it was inevitable and did everything in his power to win it. Once started, the battle couldn't be stopped and there was no way he would let Run Yu take Jin Mi away now that she was finally lawfully his.

But yes, he did lack the insight that Jin Mi would be likely to sacrifice herself to stop the war. It was outside of his comprehension.

 

EDIT: talking about the drama , not the novel.

THANK YOU!  I wanted to make this point, about XF not going to war with RY/heaven realm if RY had backed down, but I second guessed myself.  I mean its logical since XF has lost half his cultivation & has the add cold  -  going to war at this point is probably not high on list at that point.   

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

8 hours ago, lynne22 said:

Personaly for me, Xu Feng in the drama is a lot better portrayed than the book. Both have plus and minus.  But what I love the most in the drama is how Xu Feng is still an honorable man from start to the end. Not perfect, but still he's a good person.

He may be a bit arrogant and naive in some aspect in the early episode, but that's how it is when you're young right? 

Just like Jin Mi and Ren Yu, we can see his progression in the story, but a bit more subtle way.

He's naive but not blind in regards of his parents.. the problem is his hand is tied, and I cannot stress enough how I and even other character in the show can see that Xu Feng is a good person, but sadly he bears the sins of his parents. And it is his parent's sin that dooms him. His story is equally tragic to me in comparison to Ren Yu and Jin Mi. 

The story ended with him wiser and still an honorable man. 

 

Things that is always in my mind when I watch the drama were:

"He never wants the throne", this has been shown repeatedly in the early episode. But does anyone listen? 

"He loves Jin Mi first, and when Jin Mi says she didn't love him, this is what hurts him the most." It was never about her killing him... it broke something inside of him hearing this.

"The more he hurts her... the more he is hurting himself" in the demon arc, because he loves her still... He's the one that can't let go.. and he hates himself for it.... Sigh.... Poor Xu Feng and Poor Jin Mi... 

 

For me, Jin Mi and Xu Feng choosing the live a quiet life is something that is right for them.... Again, Xu Feng never wanted the throne, all he wants is Jin Mi. They deserve a peaceful life after all the sorrow and sadness in their life. This is different from the book, but it feels right in the terms of how the drama's story line progressed.

 

LOL... why is this post becoming my love letter for Xu Feng....

 

 

 

Yeah, these are mostly my feelings too. 

 

7 hours ago, Nudafu said:

 

Agree. 

 

Even before reading the novel, I wondered why the series emphasised Xu Feng asking if Jin Mi was "willing" before the mutual cultivation scene. Consent. Because of the two times Xu Feng was intimate with Jin Mi in the novel, consent was questionable. Ugh...

 

 

Yes.  In the novel the biggest turn off for me in the book was that it was so rapey.  

 

Quote

 

I thought the saddest thing about the battle is that both Run Yu and Xu Feng did bad by Jin Mi.

 

I totally agree.  I wanted to smack XF upside the head for using JM here.

 

I don't expect any good from Run Yu at this stage, but it set my teeth on edge that Xu Feng did what he did. I have a feeling production may've filmed it or thought about filming the scene right before the battle (i.e. Xu Feng raging about Jin Mi's conspiracy against him and almost choking her to death). We just get a scene where Jin Mi swears she is not to blame and Xu Feng unconvincingly believing that. But then he forcefully takes her to the battle and proceeds to use her against Run Yu. That feels disconnected.

 

I have to agree with you here.  There was definitely a disconnect - you know that scene where JM comes back for a moment as a tear in XF's eyes?  where they're hugging?  I wanted that scene after the wedding, tbh.   

I actually don't remember any scene where he's choking her?  I know he was raging in that scene, but I can't recall at any point him trying to kill her.  

 

The series should've just kept the original scene to explain Xu Feng's behaviour. The way I see it, Xu Feng used Jin Mi in his own fashion on the eve of battle. He claims he had a wedding night with her when it was plainly untrue. While it works to irritate Run Yu, it shames Jin Mi in the process. Xu Feng wanted to fight as much as Run Yu. The only reason you take an unwilling, non-combatant into the heart of battle is to use them.

 

My thoughts are that XF treats the wedding as an actuality.  Like someone else earlier on this thread, He tells JM "is it so bad to be married to me" even when in an earlier scene he plainly told her he'd kill her if she told him she loved him again, and the fact that she thinks the wedding is fake, (and yes, it started out that way, as a trap for SH - but I still feel like XF means all of his words to JM, like his character, though arrogant and cheeky, would never say words like that if he didn't mean them.) He doesn't take the pengyu since he does not want her to leave.  I feel that he's really shaken to his core.  Like to me he's visible shaken especially during the wedding scene where Moon explains all that JM has done for him. (and maybe this is me projecting) I think he means every word of the vows that he has spoken, since he repeats them internally when hugging  her from behind - XF is a person who is not manipulative - he means what he says.  To me, his apology is "off" during the wedding because he has fully realized how wrong he was in believing SH and how much he has done wrong by JM, and not only is his pride is killing him, it's that he's still so protective of himself, too.  To me he's a big ball of conflicting emotions (is how I read it)    

 

My conclusion has always been that both boys were party to her death. Yes, Jin Mi chose to step in between them and end it. But, Run Yu could've chosen not to attack. Xu Feng could've chosen not to take Jin Mi to the battle. Fine if Jin Mi intended to follow Xu Feng. But she said no before the battle, she didn't want to go to the battle. And she said no, stop fighting shortly before the boys powered up to Ban-kai showdown. If Xu Feng was shown to continue with the battle because there was too much momentum - reasonable and understandable - then fair enough. The way I read Xu Feng flinging Jin Mi off his arm, that is someone who wants to fight. And the way he revs up his troops at the start of battle, that is also someone who relishes the fight. One could argue that Run Yu's invasion was inevitable, and from a strategic perspective, I agree that Xu Feng was correct in strengthening his defences. But his sequence of actions were all about revenge. Revenge against Run Yu. Revenge against Jin Mi. He just lacked the insight that Jin Mi would be a casualty in his war for revenge.

 

I totally agree that both dudes were responsible.  But RY hit that point of no return - if JM did not come to the battle, he would have slaughtered pretty much everyone,   and forced JM to marry him.  JM said no to going back to RY and to the war but RY is just bent on taking her no matter what the cost, to her, or hundreds of thousands of lives.  I totally agree that XF wants revenge for everything RY has done, and is more than willing to fight, but someone has to stop RY.  There's no way out of this war - most of it is revenge, yes, but it's also defense. 

 

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Xu Feng could've stepped up and chosen to forgive Jin Mi because he simply loved her enough to do so. I don't doubt that he did love her, but probably not enough to let go of his pride. Because it is clear to me that Xu Feng can't let go of his hate because of his hurt pride at being betrayed - the sense of betrayal doesn't work as strongly if unhealthy, overwhelming pride is not in play. Xu Feng later confesses that he did think about forgiving Jin Mi, but he had his pride to consider. So no, this is not me picking on Xu Feng for all you Xu Feng lovers .

I still believe there was more than just his pride at work. 

I'm thinking about when JM's dying in his arms and he said "I've never hated you, I've always hated myself"  When earlier he's trying to move on from JM, but he can't, especially since JM keeps coming back.  Which he tries to rationalize as a plot by RY, but he still has doubts not only about JM working with RY, but also about SH.  He's so hurt by the fact JM told him that she never loved him (or trusted him) that he has a lot of trouble trying to rationalize how he still feels about her, and yes I do agree that part of that is pride.  But also I think back to him talking to LY, and him not fully trusting SH and thinking that JM is right - like where does that put him if that's true?  It's not just his pride,  it's his guilt, and a whole lot of other emotions to process.           

I definitely think he's always been a conflicted character, between his softer side and his toxic masculinity.  Ultimately, he pays for his toxicity in the end. (or maybe I'm reading more into it than I should)

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Are there characters who chose better? Yes. Zi Xuan (a re-written Xu Xian) in Destiny of the White Snake says of the near fatal bite that Bai Yao Yao gives him: "just make sure you bite only me and not others". Wang Yao Shi, in Mystery of the Condor Heroes, sustains a stab from Feng Heng for no other reason but the fact that she wants to reject him, and he simply chooses to forgive her too. While each have different motives and situations, I believe the moment of choice is the same. Fantasy Chinese series usually espouse the ideal that a moment of thought is what it takes to change any course of events. And in many moments, Xu Feng did not choose well. Otherwise, there would be zero guilt, and zero Xu Feng redemption moments. 

 

The happy point to all of this is that HSALF makes superb material for fanfiction. Lack and flaws in the novel and series for Xu Feng as a character. That is a fanfiction opening if I ever saw one. 

 

I think for me, the most compelling thing about the XF character is that he is so human.  Like, we've all been there - all of us have made wrong choices and ended up hurting loved ones, by holding on to our hurts, our pride and guilt.  I myself know the feeling of wanting to forgive but also being confused with other emotions & thoughts and ending up making things worse  in the long run. 

 

 

3 hours ago, mimidq8 said:

I think its been great to read and watch.  I just wanted to say that both the male leads did a great job portraying their characters.  I've read some ppl's viewpoint on RY and I understand where they are coming from but in terms of character I thinks hes my fav.  Don't get me wrong, XF is hot, but RY...I guess we always root for the underdog.  That being said, I think he loved JM as much as XF but was just so insecure, his whole life he had to take 2 steps back to take 3 steps forward and you do what we know. XF was willing to give up everything for love and RY thought he had to attain everything for it.  Here's my question, did he change the dream records to show that XF was the killer? When he was first put in charge he says that it couldn't be XF, but then when JM goes to check again he suggests that KL takes care of the guard and places blame on him... ... so there are two possible reasons for that...

 RY absolutely messed with the dream records (when him and KL were adjusting stars) and then had the guard killed when JM found out the dream was tampered with since it points back to him.

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

9 hours ago, missnymeria said:

 That is a very good description of Xu Feng. I do agree 100%.

 

I do not recommend that you read the book though or it will ruin the character for you. The drama did a great job with him (although they should have given him more screen time and more of a backstory) because the Xu Feng of the book was a forceful abuser with murderous tendencies. He's got stars in his eyes when he's in "love mode" but as soon as he sees Jin Mi paying attention to someone else, he becomes a real bastard, even coming close to killing her twice (right before the mutual cultivation too. Nice.).

 

For the life of me, I don't understand the appeal of the novel and I think the drama is a much better piece of work.

 

 

I tried reading the book not too long ago, but I couldn't do it  Ended up skimming most of it.  For sure, I agree that the drama far exceeds the novel, even if the drama itself could be better. 

 

For me, too, books and novels are completely different entities and what might work in a novel will not work in a different medium (and tbh, there was some big issues with the novel anyways) - I thought the writers did a (mostly) fantastic job of reworking the text.  Thought the part with the frost flower - the metaphor for her love - was well thought out and beautifully executed.  I'm also glad they added the part with the cracking of the yun dan, it solves some of the major issues with the novel - as in it gives JM agency. 

 

I'm probably in a minority, but I actually think XF is far better written than RY (in the drama).  Like RY is given this huge (and overindulgent) back story - like - they are trying their hardest to make us feel sorry for him.  (personally, I can't, for reasons I've stated earlier) and so his story line is "nice guy" has been through trauma and turns villainous because of it. (and I honestly think this trope might possibly be damaging to those with major trauma because in no way, shape, or form does your backstory guarantee you to be a villain) where as XF honestly feels the most human to me, and I think if they had made XF like they did in the novel, it would have been virtually unwatchable. 

 

To digress, I've also been thinking of that last battle scene.  Where RY brings his army to the demon realm to bring back JM, even though she pleads with him to let her go in an earlier scene, and just before the battle  she tells him "i'm really good here, I'm not coming back" he's still determined to possess her no matter what (and is about to genocide flower realm - really, at this point, he's become just like his step mother) JM pleads with XF not to go to war - but really, RY is completely out of control and is going to do whatever it takes to get his way, no matter the cost.  XF really has no other option than fighting, other than sending JM back.  Which is unfair to JM.

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

17 hours ago, Sejabin said:

 

 

mmm.. I am not liking that schemes and gamblings part too. but still.. for me he loves Jin Mi too. his desires to own her is too big. I think it's male hormones to wanting to own what they love. remember what phoenix did under that tree kwkwkwkwkw 

 

NB. I am not against male hormones hahahaha they are just they are. because I don't want them agains my female hormones like my nagging my make up hobby and shopping hobby hahaha

 

I dunno, I don't think it was just Phoenix - I felt that JM was right there with him, I still believe she took town her own dress.  The next day she says when he feels that he offended her  (something to the effect of) "Oh but it's my fault too" and "now you are mine"  - in my opinion it was quite mutual.    

 

I think they're just in love and doing a natural thing that people in love do.  *shrug*

 

    

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

 

3 hours ago, Sejabin said:

@bluesytb  aish.. dude like Xui Feng is everywhere while dude like Run Yu is very rare to found  okey but xui feng still the most handsome

 

mmm.. people like RY grew up like he is because of his mother father and step mother. xui feng grew up like he is because even though his mother is an evil woman she's still call him 'xui er' .. no one in heavenly realm call RY yu er.. RY experiences many abuses during his childhood.. so pity  parents must treat their children equally so they won't kill each other later 

 

just one stab and xui feng already hates jin mi. he doesn't even count when they make love under phoenix tree  jin mi too so stupid in analyzing thing and stabs xui feng. as a fruit she forgets when she lets that angry bird eats her  they are deities yet they act like humans. this is happened because they must be always skip lord daolun classes 

 

btw I still have soft spot for RY. he is the toughest here. I will hug him because no one hug him since ep 1 to ep 63  he just needs more hugs and loves 

 

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I think a lot of my discomfort and anger towards the RY character stems from  the women I know who have been in relationships with manipulative men and how these women have been deeply wounded by these men.

 

As for RY/his trauma, yes, I will agree that is awful what he went through.  However, knowing so many people who have had devastating trauma and being some of the kindest people I know, and myself being through trauma, (though nothing what many many people go through daily) I can safely tell you that trauma does not mean that you are going to turn into someone who dehumanizes others and manipulates them. Or is remotely bad in anyway.

 

I stand by him for overthrowing the previous emperor/empress, but as for completely dehumanizing JM - he can suck a potato.

 

There are a lot of things I don't like about XF - like his blindness towards his parents, and the way he treats his underlings, his arrogance.  I don't like it when he gets grabby and pushy with JM.  I hated how he forced himself on JM when he went to call out SH's name.  All the toxic parts of masculinity I dislike.  (not saying masculinity is bad or wrong, but there are definitely parts of it that are for sure toxic and  harmful)  

 

But that being said - He's very kind, will do everything he can for his friends, sticks up for RY, JM, The Empress, etc, has a wicked sense of humour, and literally has no ulterior motive - he doesn't care for power and is mainly guided by his heart - TBH I think even though he has some of those stereotypical ultra masculine (read toxic) features seen in archetypes,  he really is more complicated and far softer than that.  And that quality of softness is something I need to see in many more male characters.     

 

  

[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] Heavy Sweetness Ash-like Frost 香蜜沉沉烬如霜]

13 hours ago, Sejabin said:

to be honest this drama is too much for me hahaha.. I can't love the way they do.. too much but still I can not to not continue watch until the end  xixixixi.. well I hope I can learn how to love a person like night deity. it is easy to love a person who loves you back and brings happiness to you. but to love a person who brings difficulties and harms you it's not easy. Xui Feng hates Jin Mi because she kills him. Jin Mi kills Xui Feng when she thought he kills her father. so it is very easy to love when that person doesn't make you cry or die. I like night deity because he gives everything he has when he loves. when he stands for her mother vs heavenly empress, when he accepts punishment from heavenly empress when he saves Jin Mi so many times, etc.. well I know the way he loves is wrong because he harms Jin Mi and Xui Feng. but to be able to endure everything like that for the ones he loves is so.. wOw  

 Oh no I am so sorry -  I don't know why I can't put his down but....

 

In my not so humble opinion, RY doesn't love JM -  He wants to own her.  He wants to keep her at his side, no matter the cost to her, or how she's feeling.  That is not love.  He's abusive, so please don't idolize his character - He lies to her constantly, he imprisons her against her will, he manipulates her into marrying him (Water Deity wouldn't have let them be married, had RY not told him that they had mutual affection, which they did not), he KNOWS she has fallen for XF and that she wants to call off the wedding - so he fixes the emotionless pellet to guarantee that she'll marry him.  He KNOWS XF is innocent of killing Water & Wind but takes a hold of the investigation and buries evidence, manipulates JM's dream so that she'll think XF was the culprit, just to drive them apart (and gambles she'll kill XF - whom he tries to kill again,(and tampers with the pill that saves him) several times out of pure jealousy, even though XF is mainly innocent). he helps her a lot, but he uses that to guilt trip her "Whyyy don'ttt youuu loveee meeee, I'veee doneee soo muchh for youuu" Love isn't built on what you do for a person alone, and guilting them because they don't have feelings for you.  People are not obligated to love you/be with you because "they've done so much for you" - He does the whole guilt tripping pretty good, "Oh I am so aloone" In reality XF has always stuck up for him/been there for him and never wanted to fight.  He barely looks at Kuan Lo, who is always there for him.  There are several people who RY "has" but he dismisses because they're not JM.  He's petty, he's vindictive, he's jealous, and he does it all under the guise of "oh I'm a nice guy" 

 

Fellow Ladies, If you meet a dude like RY  - RUN!! FAR AWAY!! 

 

And I do have to disagree, respectfully, about XF hating JM.  It wasn't just that she killed him (Stabbed him in the back, literally) it's that RY tells him that he & JM worked together to kill him.  How JM giving her hair strand to XF, not out of love XF thinks  - looks pretty premeditated.  He can't seem to get her out of his mind, even though he thinks RY & JM love each other and are working together to bring him down again.  So he's very guarded, with every right to be.   (not that I agree with everything he's done)

 

My apologies for going off - this is not your fault - I blame a lot of media on how we perceive things, so I definitely do not blame you and am not angry at anyone - I just...have a lot of feelings when it comes to this topic, it seems.  

 

Cheers.