Guys: Do You Pay For Dates?

[NaughtyDog]

speedredefined said: @AtomAgeStrawberry
No, the problem isn't me.  The problem use to be me.  But as I said, I stopped being nice to Asian girls, and started being a richard simmons, and my luck dating them has increased 10x.  
#sorrynotsorry #girlslovedouchebags 

[Guest]

don't flame people online. it kills the atmosphere.
many low quality women like to be treated like an option, a GOOD quality woman, will want you to be desperate for her. 
the most useful suggestion would be to try looking for asian girls in other places. if your picking up girls at sleezy bars or clubs, it may be why your meeting such women. 
think about it. if ur trying to pick up chicks, what are u looking for? girls who aren't clingy, who arent committed, who is fine just flinging around and not get really into it involving eachother in ur life.
when ur looking for someone to really get into, marry, introduce to ur parents etc. u want a girl whos going to go the distance with you. same with girls.

[Guest AtomAgeStrawberry]

speedredefined said: @AtomAgeStrawberry
No, the problem isn't me.  The problem use to be me.  But as I said, I stopped being nice to Asian girls, and started being a richard simmons, and my luck dating them has increased 10x.  
#sorrynotsorry #girlslovedouchebags 

[Guest showoff]

From a guy's perspective, speedredefined doesn't really sound "bitter", but rather he's just saying out loud what many men think.  Basically, he's being brutally honest.  I suppose a better question would be why does his honesty cause you to call him bitter?  Maybe hitting a bit too close to home?

[NaughtyDog]

showoff said:

From a guy's perspective, speedredefined doesn't really sound "bitter", but rather he's just saying out loud what many men think.  Basically, he's being brutally honest.  I suppose a better question would be why does his honesty cause you to call him bitter?  Maybe hitting a bit too close to home?

[Guest showoff]

@NaughtyDog

I addressed the "blanket statement" issue about a page ago.  I think it's obvious that when people say stuff like "Asian women are xxxxx" or "Korean people do xxxxx", they mean many/most and not ALL.  If you're in the minority, congratulations, but we're not talking about you.  Also, keep in mind that a minority's existence doesn't make the majority's rule any less true.

And I provided everyone with statistics regarding the number of Asian females living in the USA versus the number of Asian females living outside of the USA.  While I cannot know how many of each group expects/demands the man to pay for everything, I'm confident that the majority of Asian women living outside of the USA still hold traditional gender roles, thus, they are more likely to expect/demand the man to pay for everything.  While I'd imagine that most females, regardless of race, would like the man to pay for everything, there's a distinct difference in attitude between expecting/demanding and liking/preferring.

 

EDIT:  Guys in this thread, in order to cut down on the hurt feelings, I think we should start prefacing every comment we make with "most", "many", "the majority", "a lot", or some other variation.  That way, those in the minority can't accuse of of making a "blanket statement" even though it should just be a given that we don't mean 100%.  Apparently, that inference is too difficult for some to make.

EDIT2:  That's like if a girl said "Asian guys are short.", then all these guys start yelling "OMG, BUT I'M ASIAN AND TALL!!  BLANKET STATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!".  Obviously the girl didn't mean 100% of all Asian men on the planet are short.  Why are people trying to make something out of nothing?

EDIT3:  Also, to all the girls that are commenting in here, let me ask, how many girls have you gone out on dates with?  Us men are speaking from experience with many women (different ages, races, etc).  Are you also speaking from the same experience?  I'm curious to know if you're basing your opinion solely on how you act on dates or if you've dated a wide spectrum of women like we have.

[Guest showoff]

I disagree.  The use of "many", "most, "a lot" is very relevant to this thread as it seems people are interpreting speedredefined's comments as some declaration concerning ALL Asian females; you even thought this as well according to your comment on Page 2.  Later on Page 2, he then clarified his position and explicitly stated that he does not believe that ALL Asian females are expecting payment, but that a majority of them do.  Since his clarification, I've read numerous comments from girls condemning him, stating that he is trying to put ALL Asian females in a particular catagory (guess they didn't read through the whole thread).

So no jennibear01, you're wrong.  The use of "many", "most", etc is very significant to the issue at hand as it's obvious that people aren't reading everything speedredefined has posted and is simply cherry-picking from his comments to bolster their position.

Also, you stated that you do not expect a man to pay, but would prefer it.  As I've stated numerous times in this thread, there's a distinct difference that men can pick up on when a woman expects payment or simply prefers it.  The payment itself isn't the issue, it's the attitude of the girl that is.  And attitude can often times be as a result of cultural upbringings (which is why I asked if you're Westernized or traditional).

EDIT:  So you are in the clear; you don't expect payment, but acknowledge it'd be nice and would prefer it.  Cool.  No problem there.  But understand that you do not represent the majority of Asian females; you are in the minority.  As such, the issue we've been discussing doesn't pertain to you, even if you feel like it does because we are discussing Asian females.

Also, of the girls that are commenting, saying that speedredefined is wrong, etc... how many dates have you gone on with a woman?  I'd really like to know.  If you've never gone on a date with a woman, how do you know how these women (that aren't you) act on dates with us?  If you're basing your respective opinions solely off of how YOU act on a date with a guy, then that's an even smaller sample size to deduce anything from than we (men) are working from.

[Guest showoff]

jennibear01, the content of his posts, while you may not agree with them, are just as valid and true as your posts about how Asian women aren't what he's describing.  Also, the main issue that I've read here is that people are claiming he's catagorizing ALL Asian females when he explicitly stated on Page 2 that his opinions are reserved for not ALL, but the majority.  There's no confusion, just two issues; the ALL Asian females issue and the content of his posts.  Regarding the content, they are his opinion.  Regarding the ALL Asian female thing, he clarified that he's not talking about ALL Asian females, yet there are those that continue to claim that he is talking about ALL Asian females.  Understand now?

EDIT:  Also, I've asked this twice now and you've seemed to have dodged it; how many dates with women have you been on?  Also, you haven't responded to my comment regarding attitude of expecting/demanding versus liking/preferring.  It's a subtle, yet important difference that is what's causing this in the first place.  speedredefined believes that the majority of Asian women expect/demand it, while other racial groups may simply like/prefer it.  You claim that all women, regardless of racial groupings, expect a man to pay, but you yourself admitted that you don't expect the man to pay, but would like him to.  So which is it?  Do all women expect it, do all women prefer it, do some women expect it while the other women simply prefer it?  Your comments have been contradictory.

[Guest]

i've realized that since i only consider asian girls while dating, i dont know how generous white, black or latino girls are.
i've always assumed white and other race girls would act the same way asian girls do.
it is possible that speedredefined has dated a great multitude of difference races and confirmed that asian girls are the most stingy and materialistic in comparison to women of other races.
but due to personal preference. i will never know.

[Guest showoff]

@ajlee613, I will never know either, but it bewilders me that the girls in this thread aren't even considering it as a possibility.  Just as it's possible that Asian women are the most generous, kindest women on the planet, it's equally possible that they're the stingiest and most materialistic.  Also, many girls in here continue to claim that speedredefined is making statements about ALL Asian women, even though he explicitly stated that he's not (read Page 2).

Also, I don't understand where these women are getting their information from.  How many women have they dated?  I've dated white, Latino, Asian women before... have they?

[Guest]

from my experience. cantonese girls are the type of asian girl that is the least financially dependent on her man.
at this moment i know at least 3 cantonese girls who are paying the majority in their relationships. (all of them, asian to asian relationships)
FOBs for one reason or another, generally are more willing to treat out the guy and pay, than americanized asians. (goes against what most people would think)
it seems if this is true it is propor to asume white girls are singy due to western culture.

[NaughtyDog]

Has speedredefined dated Asian guys? How does he conclude that Asian guys are too nice to Asian girls and they take advantage of that? Do you guys (as Asian guys) treat your women too nicely that you experience harsher expectations from Asian women?

[Guest]

^ that is also true. as guys, we will never truly know how other guys treat women. we can see what happens in public out with friends, however you wont ever see the real guts of the relationship. the intimacy, the fights. the tears etc.
so as a man speedredefined stated that from his experience, asian women put a higher standard for asian men to hold, but a lower quality man of other race is valued at equal level. 
i just remembered one case of this to be factual, a japanese girl from japan, came to visit the USA. my friend had a yellow fever white friend who was hitting on her. she acted friendly to him the entire time. but later got mad at my japanese friend for not telling him to knock it off. he argued that she didn't say anything or got mad at the white guy, why get mad at him for not even doing anything?
she responded that "you are japanese, you know better than white people, don't expect a dog to use chopsticks"
i thought this was hilariously racist. speedredefined described a factual collection of personal experiences. you CANNOT say that is wrong because he expierenced it. but for all we know, what he observed, was not that asian girls value white people more, but rather they think asian men are "better" as a species and thus expect more. just as in this example shown above.

with all that said, it should be the asian girls HERE who use some personal experience to state weather speedredefined is correct in his assumption that the reason why asian girls might treat asian guys in this manner is due to asian guys being too nice.
i've already stated that in my personal experience, low quality women like to be mistreated to an extent, as it proves that the man is "strong" and "dont need no body" but a high quality woman will want a man who will work with her, colalborate, communicate. and most of all NEEDS her. because sure a man can be something to look up to and show off like "my dude is so cool cuz blank, blank and blank," but those dudes are acting distant and hard towards you because they dont really love you. from multiple expirements, i've deemed this to be true with the majority of women that you will see outside in social settings.
women in other types of settings however, usually have different priorities, and have different values, and want a guy who will be committed and loyal more than "the cool douchebag" 
instead of arguing against each other's points, i think its more improtant to analyse them and add our own experiences and WHY something might be happening instead of saying "THAT NEVER HAPPENS"...... everything happens. somehwere

[Guest]

@jennibear01there was obviously at least some bashing going on, this is 99% true, the 1% accounts for the fact that the internet is not a good way to communicate intention.
do you personally treat men of different races differently? have u observed it in female friends? if so, why do u think that is?
being a man is quite complicated. we are not allowed to complain about our gender roll the way women are allowed too. we cannot say we are scared to be drafted, or how there is so much violence in our lives, we are not allowed to talk about pain and sadness the way women are allowed too.
a man's roll is to carry everyone on his back. it is no doubt tiring, and painful, however we must do it without complaint. why? because we are men.

women seem to believe men have it easy. and thus take for granted the gestures that men take upon themselves. such as slaving away hours and hours at a job and at school, getting paid the same amount as the woman, but then paying for everything. she gets rich, he gets poor (if the girl doesn't pull her weight around). this is without a doubt unfair. HOWEVER it is the fact that, this is "manly" that make men do this.
so think about it this way, if you lived in a society where you had to work the same as the other gender, (many times work longer and harder). and spend a disportionate amount of money on her, vs what she spends on you. and on top of that, she does not think about your hard work. how does that make you feel? abused? using a man's money without greatfulness is if i came over, took u to bed, didnt talk or kiss u once, and just left without a word right after i was done. it s a scumbag move. maybe i am very much in love, but if u dont show it. it can VERY easily be seen as you taking advantage.
having a woman EXPECT a man to pay, is similar for me to come home and expect my woman to give me a blowjob right away without question. 
it SHOULD be, that i work hard and pay, because i want to show her how much i care, and she gives me that welcome home service, for the same reason. it isn't payment it is collaboration and consideration. 
again, need to remind u that i dont know asian girls as speedredefined described, who dont act in that manner, probably because they know i'd dump them instantly if i knew they were trying to take advantage of me. and they valued our relationship, and cared about me, so all logical conclusions state that she should not do that.
if a man must pay for everything. a woman must do all the house work, take care of the children, service the man at any time physically. and ask him permission before she leaves the house. why is it that men must abide by traditional values, but women dont have too?
if a woman wants to take on that role, yes, i will take care of her. as it seems fair, old fasioned, but fair. there must be balance in a relationship.

acknowledge me!!!! 

[Guest HERMIT]

Oh man, I've run out of popcorn.

[Guest]

@jennibear01 this is a good explanation and i agree.
but in the getting to know you stages, the man puts the first investment in, aka date money. you have made it clear that you in particular do not do this, but if a woman gave no indication to the man that she was concerned about his hard earned money, (basically saying, im not just using u for a free meal today, but actually like you and would like to go on more dates and then eventually go steady). 
the man would be more willing to be comfortable investing if he knew you were thinking sincere thoughts about the future of this potential relationship.
i think we can all agree that this is simply manners, so sure, it is sort of expected the man does pay, but the gesture of kindness and consideration is what REALLY seems to matter here.
for me personally, no matter what if its the first couple dates im going to pay for the meal. but one of the best gestures a girl can do is offer to get round two, usually a cheaper desert like ice cream or boba. this shows she is both willing to invest, AND wants to spend MORE time with me. it is killing two birds with $5 US Dollars. 

[Guest]

@jennibear01 well, having a good attitude and communicating that you are interested isn't that big of an investment compared to say, a dinner that costs 50 dollars. 
like after a date and from what he is saying, its obvious he is really into you, and you are into him too, when the bill comes, say u have that "you better get that" attitude, it might make him think "wow.. i really liked this girl, but it seems like she might have just been in it to get a free meal, she isn't showing much concern for me" it would ruin a potential good relationship.
communication is indeed key, and reassuring the guy that his investment is acknowledge and appriciated is what is more improtant than you putting something out there.
if he is not communicating with you that he is interested, it would make some sense that a girl is too scared to make hte first move.
this IMO is very immature. adults should be able to just put it out there how they are feeling. and in my examples i am assuming the guy is being sincere in his efforts to show he cares.
dispite wat your saying, i'm pretty sure if you were into a guy who was telling u he cares and is trying, you would communicate in one way or another that him getting the bill is not a wasted investment.
btw, is it really not obvious? if a guy is trying to get some or actually date you? 


yea i think everyone agrees here agrees that the intent, and the communication of said intent is what really matters. in this particular case, using money as a symbol of investment into the relationship. 
as other guys have said, we dont usually mind paying, but a clear appriciation is part of that consideration u are talking about.

[NaughtyDog]

ajlee613 said: @jennibear01 this is a good explanation and i agree.
but in the getting to know you stages, the man puts the first investment in, aka date money. you have made it clear that you in particular do not do this, but if a woman gave no indication to the man that she was concerned about his hard earned money, (basically saying, im not just using u for a free meal today, but actually like you and would like to go on more dates and then eventually go steady). 
the man would be more willing to be comfortable investing if he knew you were thinking sincere thoughts about the future of this potential relationship.
i think we can all agree that this is simply manners, so sure, it is sort of expected the man does pay, but the gesture of kindness and consideration is what REALLY seems to matter here.
for me personally, no matter what if its the first couple dates im going to pay for the meal. but one of the best gestures a girl can do is offer to get round two, usually a cheaper desert like ice cream or boba. this shows she is both willing to invest, AND wants to spend MORE time with me. it is killing two birds with $5 US Dollars. 

[Guest]

NaughtyDog said: ajlee613 said: @jennibear01 this is a good explanation and i agree.
but in the getting to know you stages, the man puts the first investment in, aka date money. you have made it clear that you in particular do not do this, but if a woman gave no indication to the man that she was concerned about his hard earned money, (basically saying, im not just using u for a free meal today, but actually like you and would like to go on more dates and then eventually go steady). 
the man would be more willing to be comfortable investing if he knew you were thinking sincere thoughts about the future of this potential relationship.
i think we can all agree that this is simply manners, so sure, it is sort of expected the man does pay, but the gesture of kindness and consideration is what REALLY seems to matter here.
for me personally, no matter what if its the first couple dates im going to pay for the meal. but one of the best gestures a girl can do is offer to get round two, usually a cheaper desert like ice cream or boba. this shows she is both willing to invest, AND wants to spend MORE time with me. it is killing two birds with $5 US Dollars. 

[Guest HERMIT]

jennibear01 said: Guys can be very smooth! You have no idea. They'll say and do the right things. But, no relationship. It happens.