[Drama 2011] Gwanggaeto, The Great Conqueror 광개토태왕

[Moosegender]

Of course they did. KBS is just afraid to show it. Sejong had like 24 kids by various consorts. We only saw four of the Queen's children.

[daunte29]

One possible answer to DJG post:

Damdeok (Lee Tae Gon's version, not the real McCoy) would probably tell us in his deep sore-throaty voice:

Now is not the time to be making love to make babies: now is the time to make war every week and deplete the population of both Gorguryeo & its neighbors.

Only when I have conquered what the KBS writers want me to conquer, then I will promote procreation seriously and replace asap all those lousy soldiers who could not stay alive.

Any couple who tells me they're too busy or too tired to make babies because of work will suffer the following consequences: the man shall be castrated and join my palace team of eunuchs while his wife will undergo bodyguard training and work under Seol Ji, if I can find her one of these days.

But make this one thing very clear: all babies born in Goguryeo or in any nation conquered by Goguryeo must grow up fast and shall fight and defend the nation whenever I, Damdeok, send out royal decree by SMS or email.

Only when you citizens respond to my call to war will you be able to enjoy 100% free prosthetic replacements for any limbs missing after a battle, including fake eye and/or fancy eye-patch, but unfortunately there's not much my Goguryeo plastic surgeons can do for decapitations or pulverized genitals.

In these two aforementioned cases, I suggest you just die quietly and then collect your appearance fee from KBS.

Of course how many troops we can put in front of the KBS cameras to show that we're busily fighting on the battlefield, which by the way is always the same one, depends on the budget given to hire drama extras - those guys you see running around with colorful banners and always quickly die whenever any general swings their fake swords.

THis one stroke death policy is to ensure my generals, especially my lovely bodyguard Seol Ji, do not perspire and ruin their makeup as the perspiration can also undo our fake mustaches and beards.

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Another thing missing entirely from this drama is an OST.

All previous historical dramas produced by KBS had an OST and a grand theme song or two but so far for Gwanggaeto, they've been playing the same tune every episode, and the suspense background music seems to have been recycled from past sageuks.

[viktoria]

One possible answer to DJG post:

Damdeok (Lee Tae Gon's version, not the real McCoy) would probably tell us in his deep sore-throaty voice:

Now is not the time to be making love to make babies: now is the time to make war every week and deplete the population of both Gorguryeo & its neighbors.

Only when I have conquered what the KBS writers want me to conquer, then I will promote procreation seriously and replace asap all those lousy soldiers who could not stay alive.

Any couple who tells me they're too busy or too tired to make babies because of work will suffer the following consequences: the man shall be castrated and join my palace team of eunuchs while his wife will undergo bodyguard training and work under Seol Ji.

But make this one thing very clear: all babies born in Goguryeo or in any nation conquered by Goguryeo must grow up fast and shall fight and defend the nation whenever I, Damdeok, send out royal decree by SMS or email.

Only when you citizens respond to my call to war will you be able to enjoy 100% free prosthetic replacements for any limbs missing after a battle, including fake eye and/or fancy eye-patch, but unfortunately there's not much my Goguryeo plastic surgeons can do for decapitations or pulverized genitals.

In these two aforementioned cases, I suggest you just die quietly and then collect your appearance fee from KBS.

Of course how many troops we can put in front of the KBS cameras to show that we're busily fighting on the battlefield, which by the way is always the same one, depends on the budget given to hire drama extras - those guys you see running around with colorful banners and always quickly die whenever any general swings their fake swords.

THis one stroke death policy is to ensure my generals, especially my lovely bodyguard Seol Ji, do not perspire and ruin their makeup as the perspiration can also undo our fake mustaches and beards.

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Another thing missing entirely from this drama is an OST.

All previous historical dramas produced by KBS had an OST and a grand theme song or two but so far for Gwanggaeto, they've been playing the same tune every episode, and the suspense background music seems to have been recycled from past sageuks.

daunte29, they finally mentioned on episode 72 that Damju gave birth to a son. what about Yakyeon? i wonder when they will show her pregnant. isn't King Jangsu supposed to have been born in 394? the war with Baekje was in 396, so Jangsu supposed to be one or two year old already.

[daunte29]

daunte29, they finally mentioned on episode 72 that Damju gave birth to a son. what about Yakyeon? i wonder when they will show her pregnant. isn't King Jangsu supposed to have been born in 394? the war with Baekje was in 396, so Jangsu supposed to be one or two year old already.

For all we know these KBS (Keeping Baby Secret) writers can surprise us in one future episode where Jangsu suddenly appears as a strapping 10-yr old boy (played by 2AM Jo Kwon) and then he'll tell us Queen Yak Yeon died of chronic diarrhoea when he was 1 year old, and that he was brought up by his wet nurse who looks suspiciously like a former Miss Korea beauty queen.

Believe me, k-dramas are famous for making the impossible possible and the implausible totally real.

Indeed Ha Muji & Seol Ji went to visit Damju in Houyan capital ostensibly to pay a courtesy visit on her recent delivery but once again look how lazy the writers were - they couldn't even bother to borrow a baby from somewhere for that scene and make Damju look more like a proud queen mother rather than sitting there all alone. I mean, they could have put a doll in the crib and make do with sound effects of baby crying.

Instead the writers wanted us viewers to focus on Ha Muji's small eyes poking big insults on the two Houyan brothers - just so he could report back to Damdeok that the two Houyan princes are at each other's throats for the high chair.... or throne if you prefer.

This will happen this weekend when Murong Chui finally croaks and then joins his old buddy Ko Mu in the afterlife where they will continue their swordplay uninterrupted and where no one dies because all cuts and wounds are self-healing.

[viktoria]

For all we know these KBS (Keeping Baby Secret) writers can surprise us in one future episode where Jangsu suddenly appears as a strapping 10-yr old boy (played by 2AM Jo Kwon) and then he'll tell us Queen Yak Yeon died of chronic diarrhoea when he was 1 year old, and that he was brought up by his wet nurse who looks suspiciously like a former Miss Korea beauty queen.

Believe me, k-dramas are famous for making the impossible possible and the implausible totally real.

Indeed Ha Muji & Seol Ji went to visit Damju in Houyan capital ostensibly to pay a courtesy visit on her recent delivery but once again look how lazy the writers were - they couldn't even bother to borrow a baby from somewhere for that scene and make Damju look more like a proud queen mother rather than sitting there all alone. I mean, they could have put a doll in the crib and make do with sound effects of baby crying.

Instead the writers wanted us viewers to focus on Ha Muji's small eyes poking big insults on the two Houyan brothers - just so he could report back to Damdeok that the two Houyan princes are at each other's throats for the high chair.... or throne if you prefer.

This will happen this weekend when Murong Chui finally croaks and then joins his old buddy Ko Mu in the afterlife where they will continue their swordplay uninterrupted and where no one dies because all cuts and wounds are self-healing.

indeed you're very right daunte29. i can't believe the writers are women. hardly any storylines that shows a little bit more about family and relationships. the women in the drama are doing mens' jobs.

[Moosegender]

It's sad to see that, the writers can't seem to understand how to write strong females without being on the front line with their specially crafted female armor and flawless skin. The historical drama "Age of Warriors" had a wide assortment of strong female characters and not one of them were warriors.

[Guest whodat]

Came across something interesting from The Legends' synopsis:

One day, Ju-ahn, "Hyeon-mu" of the Four Gods, sees two stars sour up  into the sky. Since one came from the palace in Baekje, it predicted the  birth of "Su", later known as King Ah-shin. The other star came from  Goguryeo, prophesizing the birth of Dam-deok, later known as Gwang Gae  Toh Dae Wang.

Realizing that his new master has come to the world, Ju-ahn awaits in  the vast Manchuria with a young girl, Sujini, to see which of the two  will be his master

Sounds a lot like the conversation Damdeok had with Ha Muji in the prison cell. Maybe this is where the writers got Ha Muji from.

[daunte29]

Perhaps the most serious distortion done by these two female writers was to insert Ha Mu Ji into Gwanggaeto's inner circle.

While we may never know if the real Damdeok had an advisor such as HMJ, I'm more inclined to think Gwanggaeto would have chosen someone closer to his age - the reason being if you're a boy king installed at age 17, and then let's say he met HMJ sometime around 20 or early 20s, I doubt very much if he would appoint someone 'so-fatherly' (or grand-fatherly) to be his closest advisor.

It works both ways too: an old geezer like this HMJ would most likely find a young conquering king (NOT the Lee Tae Gon version) too impetuous and rebellious to ever listen to his grandfatherly advice.

It might have been more plausible if HMJ was a friend of the royal family or an aide to his daddy or uncle or grandpa but to appoint a total stranger to be his closest advisor to me is stretching the relationship dynamics a tad too much.

For sure, Damdeok (LTG's version) is already surrounded by generals (mostly KBS historical drama regulars) but why the writers choose to make ALL his generals just sit there at the long table and parrot "YEA, PEY HA" without any tactical suggestions of their own surely doesn't reflect a typical general's behavior.

On no less than 3 occasions, chief General Hwang has responded: PEY HA, THE SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN FIGHTING NON-STOP. THEY NEED TO REST. WE CANNOT SEND THEM INTO BATTLE NOW.

Folks, don't you now think General Hwang's lines were written by a mother?

With all due respect to ZhuGe Liang and the many ancient Chinese kings who fought against him and lost, you would imagine DD's copycat strategist to be equally cocky and brimming with brilliant audacious plans but has our HMJ live up to even being a brilliant general? HMJ looks more and more like a senior citizen whose only solid military doctrine is KILL ALL ENEMY PRISONERS so that they don't live to fight us again another day.

Besides that, look at how Baekje, Houyan, and for a while Biryeo made DD look like any ordinary lame king, and then when DD went out to recapture or save his beleagured fortresses, half the time HMJ is not even at DD's side on a white horse. Being DD's only strategist, why is HMJ not out there beside DD on the battlefield half the time?

Is HMJ conducting the battleplan from an underground concrete bunker in Gungnaseong (DD's capital) surrounded by giant LED screens, watching real-time images relayed by an array of orbiting satellites and then relaying coded instructions using pigeons and messengers on horseback?

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Furthermore the real Damdeok is credited with training and leading into battle his awesome 50,000 strong armored cavalry, and I'm inclined to believe DD needed no one other than himself and his cavalry division commanders to do the job. If he had a strategist, he would probably be his best cavalry commander.

Just pause and think: it's already difficult enough to lead and command 5,000 modern battle tanks and using modern radio comms to direct the movement of 5000 war machines against your enemies.

Now multiply that ten times and imagine using just signal flags, drums, horns, fire and sound-emitting arrows plus soldiers who can shout long distances to give orders to 50,000 men on horseback and direct battle formations against your enemies.

Does a HMJ-character sound like he's capable of devising a battleplan assault involving 50,000 cavalry plus an additional few thousands more archers, light cavalry and the ever effective infantry?

That is why in all probability, the real Damdeok would spend half of his free time training and practising his battle formations with his grand army..... instead of sitting at the long table and looking at the map.

In those days, generals have to train REGULARLY and 'rehearse' their entire troops TO FOLLOW orders that are given by flags, drums, horns and arrows and form the various battle formations for one simple reason - about half or more of their soldiers are actually conscripts, not professional soldiers.

The ancient kings in Korea, just like their Chinese and Japanese counterparts, could never have kept a large enough professional standing army because of the huge costs involved, and so conscripting males from the region was very necessary. And that's why these recruits have to be trained and rehearsed until they get the basics right before they go out to fight and die, or fight and live to fight another battle.

To augment their huge armies, slaves (captured citizens from conquered nations) would also be forcibly put into the moving army, carrying the supplies, handling the supply carts and of course, feed the war horses and donkeys and cows ..... and when they use the siege engines and battering rams, it's usually the slaves who are made to push these war machines right up to the fort, and of course these slaves get slaughtered first before the regular soldiers moving behind them take over the job and finish it.

Of course dramas & most films won't ever show slaves in action during a battle for the same reason nobody is ever seen smoking in a contemporary TV drama.

That's why it's more plausible to believe that Damdeok's 50,000 strong armored cavalry would probably be professional soldiers because you need a cohesive unit of 50,000 to move as one and coordinate well with the other Goguryeo units on the battlefield. And that's also why the real DD, being a young man, king and leader in his 20s, would probably spend more time training and perfecting his battlefield maneuvers, with his battalion commanders and generals.

Most unfortunately, our writers have made Lee Tae Gon play DD like he's already past his youth and prime, and Goguryeo generals spend more time sitting at the long table awaiting messengers to come running in to say, "PEY HA, WE ARE UNDER ATTACK BY UNKNOWN FORCES FROM UNKNOWN COUNTRY FROM MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS. WE ONLY KNOW THEY SPEAK SAME LANGUAGE BECAUSE THEY KEEP SCREAMING OBSCENITIES AT US, SOME OF WHICH ARE BETTER THAN OURS.

[daunte29]

Mr Ha Mu Ji was a Baekje King Biryu in Geunchogo, and also played minor forgettable characters in The Princess Man & Age of Warriors.

He certainly has the historical experience in k-dramas.

"Dang! I used to have my magic wand but they took it away from Ha Muji.

Whatcha lookin' at? Don't yer like my V-shaped eyebrows? And the 'X' on my face?

[Guest whodat]

It might have been more plausible if HMJ was a friend of the royal family or an aide to his daddy or uncle or grandpa but to appoint a total stranger to be his closest advisor to me is stretching the relationship dynamics a tad too much.

That's so true. It would have been better is Ha Muji maintained his drunk-fortuneteller persona. I really liked him when he first appeared. He provided comical relief and suspense with his clever predictions and rhetoric. He should have been the drunk family friend/uncle who on occasion provided counsel. However, once he got the robes and an official position, he turned into a snarling parrot like the rest of Damdeok's posse.

I don't know if the production team could not find horses or what, but the famed 50000 cavalry was turned into 5 horses and a few dozen foot soldiers. But since all the battles fought so far were in or outside a fortress, maybe having a cavalry wasn't necessary.

[Guest DJG]

^Some actors just look better in traditional sageuk wear.

[daunte29]

^Some actors just look better in traditional sageuk wear.

U think? How about this fella?

Stop lookin' at my nipple... fix 'em on my pecs

Man, my tummy feels like a blender... just can't stop fartin'.... I hope Doyeong has a strong nose...

If Yakyeon calls, tell her I've gone squirrel hunting....

[daunte29]

KBSW Ep 73..... Yet again our KBS (Keeping Bullcrap Secure) writers continue to strangely distort history by making Murong Chui die by knowingly drinking poisoned wine given by his darling son Murong Xi to prevent his other darling son Murong Bao from drinking the said wine.

Our writers created this scenario in order to prevent the two brothers from killing each other, therefore creating internal civil strife which in his estimation, would destroy his precious Houyan and expose itself to further penetrations from Goguryeo.

I'm sure some of you will find out from Google the true way the real MC died but I suppose that wasn't high drama enough to kill off MC.

On his deathbed he made the two idiots 'promise' to behave and stop killing each other and focus on DD, the real enemy.

What our two ignorant ahjumma writers have done is to over-simplify human nature .... brothers killing each other to usurp the throne in that era was as common as bribery & corruption in Korean politics and civil administration today.

We are made to believe and accept that a wily old king (the real Murong Chui) would issue a deathbed wish that would be obediently followed by the two idiot sons? And the writers expect us viewers to accept that? If it was a fairytale, or kindergarten play maybe....

Is there anyone reading this who hasn't disobeyed papa & mama or told lies?

The other distortion was that the real Murong Chui actually sired more sons than just the 2 idiot sons you only see in our gripping drama GTGC.

So our two ahjumma writers have conveniently reduced the chess game to just two, instead of the real power struggle which involved the queen, her sisters and ruthless treachery on the part of the real Murong Bao immediately after he took over the throne. Ah well.... fiction is good or else this drama might go on to 150 episodes.

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Pay attention to the sudden appearance of Seol Ji in this ep 73.

When Damdeok & his posse travels and enters the Houyan palace to pay their respects to the deceased MC and at the same time show their usual flair for offending the Houyan hosts, clearly Seol Ji WASN'T PART of the posse - only the other two lowly female bodyguards were seen behind DD.

(So who's protecting the pregnant Yakyeon back home, eh? Oh sorry, I forgot that Yakyeon was once a Xena Warrior type so she's more than capable of defending herself from 50 or more assassins who usually don black hoods and black ninja-style suits in an era of Korean history when even ninja or their trademark black uniforms had yet to be invented. In fact there's no evidence even among the Japanese experts that real ninjas in the feudal period ever wore black as camouflage. That's like a plainclothes cop who displays his police badge on his T-shirt, a weapon strapped to his hip and a sign on his forehead that says 'COP").

LATER..... when one of the female bodyguards rushed back to tell DD of the riots at the Goguryeo migrants settlement, Seol Ji is STILL visibly absent.

Then when DD & his posse moves out to the migrants settlement to stop the rioting, Seol Ji is SEEN galloping just behind him and when they were ambushed, there is another clear shot of lovely Seol Ji showing the usual anxious expression which says, OH NO! WE"RE BEING AMBUSHED FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME AND SHUCKS, THIS TIME I FORGOT TO WEAR MY KEVLAR BRA.

OK.. since as you know I'm a bit partial to Seol Ji, the only explanation I have is maybe Seol Ji overslept when DD & his posse left for Houyan earlier that day but she managed to catch a taxi and arrived in Houyan just in time for the ambush.

AND here we moan that the writers have no more surprises left for us viewers.

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Supplementary: don't you like the way our KBS writers make these warring kings still show proper respect and organize condolence visits when the other king croaks?

The last time we checked, wasn't the Houyan & Goguryeo still at war? Can the state of war suddenly be 'forgotten' just because one ruler died?

Do we want to believe our KBS writers that it's okay to send condolence delegations to an enemy state with the full trust that neither one of the delegation will be harmed, disembowelled, beheaded or be ripped apart by four bulls?

What's wrong with these ahjumma writers? Did they forget that REAL Goguryeo soldiers who die defending their country have fathers and mothers (assuming they themselves were not slaughtered too) who grieve for their sons but suddenly all is forgiven when the enemy king croaks and we can have a few weeks of peace while the enemy state mourns their beloved leader?

Fearless as he was, I seriously doubt even the real Damdeok would have attended the funeral wake for an enemy king - in all likelihood, the entire Goguryeo palace would be celebrating the death of an enemy king rather than send a condolence delegation to show crocodile tears.

Sometimes I'm not sure if these ahjumma writers are really dumb and ignorant of historical political affairs - for sure they neglect to do thorough pre-production research - or they think they're very clever in imposing their own world view and rewriting diplomacy and the conduct of nations at war?

Another hilarious thing our KBS writers love to do is make Damdeok & his entire posses waltz in and out of the Houyan palace like it's part of the KBS studio set. No guards to stop them or at least disarm them by taking their swords away at the reception counter (of course we know Seol Ji always has a few daggers up her sleeves).

If DD & his posse could casually walk into Murong Bao's private office, with no Houyan palace guards in sight, not even a single pesky eunuch, then why not just slash Murong Bao and his brother to pieces and then fight their way out of the palace and back to Gungnaseong in time for dinner and beer?

[Guest flydolesqueue]

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[Guest DJG]

^ this drama has given me an aversion to long rectangular tables.

[daunte29]

^ this drama has given me an aversion to long rectangular tables.

Hehe .... that's a good one DJG.... actually those long tables serve only two purposes:

1. nearest to the king is always a map with small colorful flags showing where the portable toilets are located on the battleground, which the guys nearest to camera can never see and that's why we have a flip-chart/whiteboard placed just beside and behind his majesty.

2. the king usually loves to bang the table hard whenever he hears bad news.

So when you really really think about it, removing the table wouldn't even be someting you'll miss - it's not an ESSENTIAL MUST HAVE palace furniture because our guys never eat or drink when waiting for messengers - but the king needs something to bang hard with his hand, usually once sometimes twice, hence the table.

If you look at the screencaps for ep 79 just above your post, we're now introduced to ancient Korean men with twin pigtails.... I'm sure the bit actor's proud mum would say this IN KOREAN to her friends:

HEY LOOK..... THAT'S MY DARH-LING BIG BOY ON PRIMETIME TV DRAMA. WHICH ONE? CAN'T YOU SEE THE ONE WITH THE BROAD FACE AND SHORT TWIN PIGTAILS? DOESN'T HE REMIND YOU OF ACTRESS KIM TAE HEE?

Kim Tae Hee? Yeah , maybe if I close my eyes and over-stretch my imagination....

If anyone ever invents or finds a time-travel device, be sure to zip back to Goguryeo times and introduce to these men in ancient Korea shaving blades .... I'll bet even the womenfolk there will think you're a god, and kings might name roads after you.

While you're there as a time-traveller from this century, be sure to open schools for hairstyling, including barbers, because I seriously think barbers and hairstylists were non-existent those days. Wigs were more in fashion and aplenty in those days due to large numbers of decapitations in palace execution grounds (if you believe k-dramas) and of course after every major battle, wigmakers would go around collecting horsetails from slain horses.

Which then makes me wonder how come we have a shiny bald-headed guy in the same screencaps above? How did that dude keep his head so smooth and clean-shaven?

[chasen8888]

I have stopped watching this show months ago because of its ridiculousness, however, I keep coming to this thread. Why because of daunte29 and some others who make it an enjoyable read. Most times I end up laughing at your comments, thank you for humoring me and giving a smile on my face. It makes missing all those episodes worth it. Take care of yourselves and please continue being you.

[daunte29]

Tell us what you notice when you observe the two long tables below.... the purple colored one for DD and the green colored one for Murong Xi

Doesn't it strike you they came from the same interior designer and indeed even the decor of the two rooms look eeriely sinilar..... right down to the flipchart just beside and behind the kings

[Guest whodat]

Maybe even in those days they had celebrity interior designers who exclusively worked for royal families. Here's a behind the scenes recording of the conversation between Damdeok and the interior designer:

DD: I heard that you are renown for your decorating skills.

ID: 'YEH PEY HA'.

DD: I need you to 'beautify' my board room.

ID: 'YEH' I have just came from a similar job in Houyan so I have a lot of left-over stuff to--

DD: (Bangs the table and snarls) Houyan! Houyan are barbarians. I will not have my board room looking anything like theirs.

ID: Calm down 'PEY HA'. I had heard from the Malgal that Houyan luv using people for free so when they asked for my services I suspected they wouldn't pay so I did a shoddy job. I'll tell you this though, by the time I am done with your room, Houyan will be jealous.

DD: Okay... What do you have in mind.

ID: I'll start by doing the drapes the same as I did in Houyan--

DD: Does it have to be the same?

ID: (Frustrated) Understand this, the basic design I used in Houyan is what's HOT right now. If I use any other design here, Goguryeo will become the laughing stock of the interior design world. Do you want that?

DD: (Sighs) Fine, what else do you propose?

ID: I will make several major changes/additions:

One, instead of two light fixtures (white hanging things) I will put...wait for it... FOUR. Then, I will use a purple table cloth with a golden stripe, to match your armor, cutting across to where you'll be sitting.

Also, instead of a white screen with gibberish written on it, I will install a screen with the Goguryeo emblem (three-egged crow) carved on it as your backdrop.

Finally, instead of a plain-old white map, I will order a golden one to further enhance the idea that 'YOU ARE THE ONLY SUN IN THE SKY', 'PEY HA'.

DD: (Nodding in agreement) I like it!! If I am pleased with your work, I will have you do my son's room when he is born.

ID: (Kneeling and beaming with radiance) It would be a great honor, 'PEY HA'.

[daunte29]

^^ Now that's what I call entertaining & awesomely funny..... thanks mzeiya !