[Drama 2009] Queen Seon Deok 선덕여왕

[Guest icecreamy]

Have yall notice that Queen Seon Deok 's twin sister married her cousin . I mean , that's kinda odd wel... it was during that time so whatever. I just noticed something . By the way does anyone how old was he and her when they got married ????im just a bit curious , since he looks pretty much older than 15 , don't yall think ??

[shirley]

there are so many hwarangs that it is becoming quite confusing lol ..

their titles are pretty fancy..do they have any meanings to what they do or just some titles created for the rank

did they mention the third daughter yet ..isnt she suppose to marry the Baekje King later on

[Guest danick]

I really do not why I was drawn into this drama series. Maybe because its a period movie with all the court intrigues and drama. While I find some scenes or some parts of the story quite illogical and even stupid, I still get excited each week.

I just wish that they could have explained or showed the viewers in a more detailed manner why is it that Mi Shil is all that powerful. For a woman to hold that power is not surprising anymore but they could have shown more instances or reasons as to how was she able to attain it.

Anyway, I do hope that the writers and the director will be more careful in dealing with the details. I'm glad that someone pointed out here the same thing I observed during the "praying for rain" scene. Nearby Waterfalls, hello?! Arrggg. I'm not here to bash about it. Sorry guys, I get frustrated sometimes. It's not everyday I get to watch something that it so entertaining and I just wish that they will be a little bit more careful with the production.

Still, I love it and I am addicted to it. I got my whole fam and some to watch it.

[Guest avonmarissa]

Shirley, you brought up an interesting question I have been thinking about. Popular history has suggested that the third daughter married King Mu of Baekje, but recent historical articles I came across may suggest that the story is quite possibly false. In short, the third daughter may have never married a Baekje king at all. Can any of the Korean history fans here shed some light on the authenticity of story of the third daughter of King Jinpyeong, Seonhwa?

[bodashiri]

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2906073

Beautiful forgery transcends reality

June 13, 2009

The book “Annals of the Hwarang” by the Silla historian Kim Dae-mun appears in the King Jinheung chapter of “Samguk Sagi,” a historical record of the Three Kingdoms of Korea. It includes the quote, “All benevolent premiers and brave tradesmen came from the Hwarang.” The book was so famous that everyone knew the title, but sometime later the book disappeared.

Then in 1989, what was said to be a copy of the original kept in the Japanese Royal Library, suddenly appeared. The material included a biography of 32 pungwolju, or leaders of the code of Silla chivalry who lived from 540 to 681. This is when an intense debate started about whether the copy was a forged book or real history.

According to the copy, a heroine called Misil took center stage at the royal Silla court in the sixth century. She had three pungwolju husbands and lovers and ruled the court through the bedrooms of three kings, Jinheung, Jinji and Jinpyeong.

In other words, Misil’s life is the history of the Hwarang, a place where young people who excelled in beauty, bravery and military arts trained in the Silla Dynasty (57 B.C. ? A.D. 935).

However, we are not sure whether she actually existed because there are no traces of her in other documents.

The MBC TV drama “Queen Seondeok,” which has attracted legions of viewers, relies largely on this book.

The interesting point is the difference between Queen Seondeok in Samguk Sagi and Misil in Annals of the Hwarang. In the former, Queen Seondeok doesn’t have an easy road to the throne. Noblemen intensely opposed her because they could not accept a woman as the highest ruler.

Hostilities did not stop after she came to power. Emperor Taizong of Tang ridiculed a Silla ambassador, saying “If you do not have an appropriate leader, shall I send you a king?” Goguryeo and Baekjae, neighboring kingdoms, were offensive, too. Even the writer Kim Bu-sik added, “It is a great relief the country did not fall into ruin because it had a woman as ruler.”

On the other hand, Misil boasted beauty and grace, but even the ruling powers joined her side using dignity and political tactics. A sense of respect can be felt from the end of the pen as the writer records the effects Misil had on the Hwarang.

Is this difference in perspective a difference between Kim Dae-mun of the Silla Dynasty and Kim Busik of the Goryeo period, or evidence that Annals of the Hwarang is a forged book from a 20th-century perspective?

Whether or not the document is real is something for the academic world to decide, but the structure of Annals of the Hwarang is so thorough and magnificent that it would be even more impressive if it were revealed to be a creation, not reality. I wonder if Misil really did exist.

The writer is a team manager at JES Entertainment.

By Song Won-sup [five@joongang.co.kr]

[Guest MisterBarca]

Shirley, you brought up an interesting question I have been thinking about. Popular history has suggested that the third daughter married King Mu of Baekje, but recent historical articles I came across may suggest that the story is quite possibly false. In short, the third daughter may have never married a Baekje king at all. Can any of the Korean history fans here shed some light on the authenticity of story of the third daughter of King Jinpyeong, Seonhwa?

The 서동요 story was always thought likely apocryphal.

[Guest MisterX]

Shirley, you brought up an interesting question I have been thinking about. Popular history has suggested that the third daughter married King Mu of Baekje, but recent historical articles I came across may suggest that the story is quite possibly false. In short, the third daughter may have never married a Baekje king at all. Can any of the Korean history fans here shed some light on the authenticity of story of the third daughter of King Jinpyeong, Seonhwa?

Essentially, the Samguk Yusa listed that the Mireuk Temple in Iksan was established by King Mu's consort Princess Seonhwa, but recent findings have shown that it was instead established by another consort, the daughter of Sataek Deokjeok (love them Baekje names~), a Jwapyeong (1st rank in the central Baekje court) at the time. That doesn't necessarily mean Seonhwa never married King Mu (could have been another consort after Seonhwa's death), but that's where the controversy started from.

This is when an intense debate started about whether the copy was a forged book or real history.

Intense? Y...eah. Nobody worth anyone's time in Korean historical circles considers the Hwarang Segi anything more than Shilla's own Arabian Nights. 망할 조중동...

[Guest MisterBarca]

망할 조중동...

???

Essentially, the Samguk Yusa listed that the Mireuk Temple in Iksan was established by King Mu's consort Princess Seonhwa, but recent findings have shown that it was instead established by another consort, the daughter of Sataek Jeokdeok (love them Baekje names~), a Jwapyeong (1st rank in the central Baekje court) at the time. That doesn't necessarily mean Seonhwa never married King Mu (could have been another consort after Seonhwa's death), but that's where the controversy started from. Neither Samguk Yusa nor Samguk Sagi list a specific date for the temple's establishment, but it was found to be King Mu's 40th year of reign (己亥年, 639).

Let me clarify. I didn't mean that the claim that Princess Seon-hwa married King Mu was always considered "likely apocryphal." I was referring to the manner of their marriage. That is, if it happened, it was likely strictly a realpolitik union.

[Guest MisterX]

???

The writer is a team manager at JES Entertainment.

By Song Won-sup [five@joongang.co.kr]

설마 천하의 찌라시인 조중동 모르십니까...

there are so many hwarangs that it is becoming quite confusing lol ..

their titles are pretty fancy..do they have any meanings to what they do or just some titles created for the rank

Their "nicks" do have a meaning, for instance the 4 guardians of the compass four of those are taken from.

Black Tortoise of the North (玄武, 현무)

Vermillion Bird of the South (朱雀, 주작)

Azure Dragon of the East (青龍, 청룡)

White Tiger of the West (白虎, 백호)

and so on...

So yeah... mostly airy monikers to give them importance.

[Guest MisterBarca]

설마 천하의 찌라시인 조중동 모르십니까...

I know the expression, of course. But why did it come up in this context--other than the fact that you are an anarchist and presumably a Lefty?

[Guest MisterX]

I know the expression, of course. But why did it come up in this context--other than the fact that you are an anarchist and presumably a Lefty?

Ain't that the answer.

[Guest MisterBarca]

I know the expression, of course. But why did it come up in this context--other than the fact that you are an anarchist and presumably a Lefty?

Ok, I see the original article came from 중앙일보. Holy moly--we have an incorrigible case here!

Ain't that the answer.

Yes, but as I said, I missed the 중앙일보 source the first time.

I know this isn't a current affairs forum, and I despise the three main conservative dailies as well for their inaccuracies and deliberate distortions...

But the problem is the Korean media as a whole, given that the alternatives are often far worse. Yes, 조중동 may be laughable, but 한겨레 and its ilk (e.g. Ohmynews) are so comically bad that I feel like crying whenever I deign to read them.

[Guest riehae]

So much history talk... which I appreciate coz I learn more of the history.

Thanks for discussing it.

[Guest MisterBarca]

So much history talk... which I appreciate coz I learn more of the history.

Thanks for discussing it.

Yes, 아나키스트's historical knowledge is quite impressive. Indeed, I never thought I'd learn so much from someone at a K-pop site.

We have to work on his ideological posture though...

[Guest aoiyuki291]

Anyway, I do hope that the writers and the director will be more careful in dealing with the details. I'm glad that someone pointed out here the same thing I observed during the "praying for rain" scene. Nearby Waterfalls, hello?! Arrggg. I'm not here to bash about it. Sorry guys, I get frustrated sometimes. It's not everyday I get to watch something that it so entertaining and I just wish that they will be a little bit more careful with the production.

Lol yeah it was quite funny when they had a nearby waterfall. I thought it was illogical too. But then there are some rivers and waterfalls that form only when it rains. It could be the waterfall was dry and the torrential rain generated runoff to form that waterfall. One example that comes to mind are the rivers and streams on the Yellow Mountain in China. It's probably not the case when they were shooting the drama, but at least that's one way of explaining that waterfall being there in the story .

[Guest avonmarissa]

Ah, I like coming to this thread; I learn so much from you all. Thanks for the feedback on the "Seodongyo" story.

[Guest dramaok]

there are so many hwarangs that it is becoming quite confusing lol ..

their titles are pretty fancy..do they have any meanings to what they do or just some titles created for the rank

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3374/bl...10c8adb6fbs.jpg

cool map. but that is only the "seorabol 10" hwarangs --

their titles sound kinda religious to me. maybe paying respect to the entities.

yusin is part of the other hwarang group. i think they're called 용화향도 [龍華香徒].

i guess they are the more 'hick' group.. but maybe soon they become 1.

dunno what lee moonshik is supposed to be mixed w/ the various jingol boys.

he is so not 15. o.O it doesn't really make sense that they allowed him to stick around.

i mean at least deokman's 15 even though at this pt, they think she's a street boy.

all the other boys are royals or nobles. pretty much.

I just wish that they could have explained or showed the viewers in a more detailed manner why is it that Mi Shil is all that powerful. For a woman to hold that power is not surprising anymore but they could have shown more instances or reasons as to how was she able to attain it.

ya me too. i wanna see the dirt behind mishil's current powers...

also really miss moonoh now...

but i guess this is why the drama's named after lee yowon's character, not go hyeonjeong's.

they wanna focus on the next genration.

[Guest icecreamyforeva]

Is it okay if someon kind of post a before and after picture of the characters in this series . I want to see who umm... one of the main character the guy that is a famous commander and would be Queen Seon Duk's lover in the series.Well.. is he one of the hwarangs when he was a kid , and that was in the blue . That the princess told him to appoint Seon Duk as one his warriors ???? Is that how she'll fall in love with ?

[Guest uberathlete]

Just began watching this. Pretty good.

SPOILER

Waaaahhh!! Seo Hwa died! Real bummer, she was my favorite character.

[Guest alicechen]

Just finished watching episode 6, 7 and 8.

I can't believe I'm actually following a historical drama!!

Must be the feminist side of me!

I love the chemistry between the two young actresses.

Deok Man and Cheon-myung are uber cute when they're together.

Esp the time they spent when they sat by the campfire and talked!

I was so proud of our Princess Cheon-myung when she challenged Mishil!

HOHO! Even though she is not as scheming/smart as Mishil, it was a good start.

The confrontation between Deok Man and Mishil was so intense!!

The facial expressions on Mishil every time she sees DM is soo entertaining.

Now to the boys.

The young Yooshin is so cute! I didnt really pay attention to him,

but when he and his hwarangs figured out that Cheon-myung is the missing princess...I was

Am I the only one who melted when he said, "But, in exchange, don't cry anymore." to Cheon-myung?

I thought they looked cute together...too bad he is Deok Man's man with a twisted fate!

The hwarang boy who shot Mishil's son with an arrow is quite an eye-candy as well.

Too bad, they will all disappear next week. YAY for the adult versions!

Thanks so much for subbing this drama, With S2!!

PS. MUNNO!! Where're you!!

The only male actor I look forward to..well until the others grow up.