[[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记]

Haven't posted in a while. This drama and novel have always been my favourite Jin Young novel because the characters and plot line have a degree of complexity not seen e.g. Legend or Return of Condor heroes which are more straightforward. Personally, I have read novel a few times many years ago and watched the 01, 02 and 03 versions.  Here are some of my personal thoughts.

 

Personally, I felt that 01 version overall in terms of plot and characters is still my favourite because changes to the plot from the novel were appropriate and added to the relationships without destroying the characters e.g execution scene and various saving ZM from prince scenes. Compared to the other versions, ZZR in the 01 version was the more tolerable and I thought that she losing her memory and leading a simple life with SGS at the end was quite good. The political parts at the ends injected tension without being overly dramatic. In terms of ZM, compared to 03 version which was a bit too playful and cheeky and thus did not have that princess stature and 09 version which had that stature but lack in the more feminine and playful aspects, I thought that the 01 version is the most well balanced while the 19 version is probably second.

 

In terms of the characters, I think that ZWJ had been one of the most misinterpreted and misunderstood character. Looking at his background growing in an island without any human interaction his first encounter is a bunch of adults forcing his parents to death. Then, he spent time in a cave, can he possibly know affairs of the heart. Thus, he had interest in the various girls he meet, XZ because she is kind, treats him well, ZZR because she fed him porridge as a kid, Yin Li because of her devotion to the young ZWJ and of course ZM intrigued him with her behaviour thus, he contemplated living with all of them in the novel because he has interest in them as a person and not because he loves every girl he sees like many think. His thoughts are probably very simple due to his previous way of living.  After Snake Island, going back as he cannot bear to kill ZM and then wander towards marriage and out of marriage, that is probably then he then start to realise his deeper feelings.

 

With this current version, I think the biggest problem with this adaptation despite its merits in the strong injection of nationalism into the drama making it a primary plot point rather than a tertiary one in the novel itself, this creates a lot of unnecessary drama and destroys same characters such as XX, ZZR and ZM, you can say even FY and YZ. For example, XX, having his teacher kill his wife and child and then killing bunch of people and living 10+ years as a recluse on an island, his idea of nation and race would be quite vague. Thus, in the novel, seeing what ZM did, he accepted her rather than knowing she is a Mongolian and start giving a bunch of attitude regardless of what she did. Similarly, for ZM, it made her too desperate in some parts especially at Snake Island. In the novel, the impression I got is that while the Ming Sect was against Yuan Dynasty, the upper management was pretty much hands off and most definitely would not form plots to kill the emperor or engage in political marriage.. The injection of this nationalism plot points thus added too much drama making it somewhat similarly to a Korean melodrama which is completely unnecessary.

 

In terms of character of ZZR, I have strong hopes for the 19 version as I personally liked the actress but the way the character is being portrayed made her even worse than the novel or other versions. If you looked at the novel prior to the wedding, she gives a very pure, kind and compassionate vibe as she keeps her emotions and things under wraps probably because of her own internal turmoil. However, due to the nationalism plots in this version and character plot holes, she becomes one that points a sword at ZM, tell tales about ZM's identity to XX, shows attitude to ZWJ,  squabbles with ZM, shakes and behaves in a domineering manner to Yin Li, stuff unimaginable in the novel. 

 

Overall, her characterisation in the novel in similarly to a korean drama second female lead, have a backstory to try to make them sympathetic to others, make wrong choices, claim a lot more prominently her love to the male lead but ultimately trust and love no one but themselves the most, thus the cherry picking and trying to have it both ways and blaming others.  If she truly trust and adhere to what Miejue ask her to do , then it should be just a honey trap operation without the need to kill YI and then flee to Emei to slowly learn the skill and dominate the world, perhaps killing WJ in snake island along the way. She did not do so instead choosing to be together with him. On the other hand, if she truly trust  and love him and know what he is like then, she should know that being as laid back and highly skilled as he is, he definitely would not steal the martial arts manual from her and never crossed her mind to discuss the matter to find a solution together.   

 

In terms of the aftermath of the Snake Island incident, a point commonly raised by ZZR fans is that ZWJ loves ZZR which makes him a jerk to ZM fans is that he did not say and do anything hostile to ZZR after learning that she is the culprit. However, my personal opinion is that love and hate are two sides of the same coin thus, ZWJ's behaviour to ZM post Snake Island. The opposite of love is indifference, by the time he found out the truth, some time has passed and he is more than happy to flipped a page of the issue and ZZR is now a old friend which he feels some guilt about but nevertheless an outsider compared to his now close relationship with ZM, thus the relative lack of response, and  subsequently, in the novel, Yin Li came alive again. 

 

In general, all the versions has their respective merits, although personally, in my own opinion, the 09 version was too robotic in its plot flow, the 03 version made ZWJ look really bad highlighting all his wishy washy and indecisive behaviour some of which misinterpreted, the 01 version also had issues like Lawrence Ng too old for ZWJ and the 6 sects invading Ming Sect probably not as well done while the current version is too melodramatic due to its nationalism plots. 

[[Drama 2018] What is Wrong with Secretary Kim, 김비서가 왜 그럴까]

4 minutes ago, aisling said:

@Ondine Wow! Thanks a lot for your help!

 

@theonlyone88 Thanks for providing the whole backstory to us. It’s heartbreaking knowing what YJ had to go through. On top of the trauma of the kidnapping he has to take s-h-i-t from his hyung even though it was hyung’s fault all along. I have few questions I’d like to ask additionally.

 

  Hide contents

How did a 9yo boy convince that woman not to kill them?

 

Did he directly tell her to kill herself instead?

 

Did YJ and MS know each other before being kidnapped? We saw them playing together in a flashback.

 

Why do her sisters pretend she was never kidnapped? 

 

Why didn’t YJ try to find MS after that kidnapping?

 

Why does he pretend not to know her when he hired her?

 

Spoiler

1) It was more of trying to to getting her to let go and lead a new life and assure her that they will not go to the police station if they let him them but ultimately, he was prepared to die and the woman made the decision herself.

 

2) The flashback is probably when they got back to Mi So's house after the kidnapping as he promised her that he will come back to look for her but when he did, they already left due to the redevelopment of the area

 

3) The sisters probably not not know after it was in the middle of the night and they probably come back before the day. The sisters and father were also preoccupied with their mum staying in the hospital with a terminal illness.

 

4) YK had to pretend that he had lost his memories of the incident and probably wanted to shield her from recovering her memories of the incident as well.

 

[[Drama 2018] What is Wrong with Secretary Kim, 김비서가 왜 그럴까]

I read chinese version on webtoon at qqcomics which is until chapter 198 and will offer your spoilers on the plot.

 

Spoiler

Both Mi So and Young Joon were kidnapped by a woman who was a mistress and got pregnant then lost her baby and got dumped by the man. They were 5 and 9 years at that time, Young Joon got brought to the redevelopment area that became the amusement park by his brother who wanted to abandon him as he was jealous of him and the attention that he was receiving from their parents. Young Joon met the woman there, was drugged and locked up with his hands and legs tied with cable tie. Mi So was took there after 3 days when she got up in the middle of the night, ran out looking after her mother then got tricked by the same women to where Young Joon was locked up and was also tied with cable tie.

 

The women wanted to kill both of them to accompany her in death but after some imploring by Young Jun decided to commit suicide instead, witnessing the women commit suicide but unable to do anything to help her thus became the trauma for him. To prevent Mi So from witnessing the same thing, he tricked her into thinking that the women was a huge giant spider that would kill her if she saw her, thus Mi So's  fear of spiders. His scar was created as he had to crawled to the women after she killed herself to get the scissors to cut away the cable tie and injured himself further but he cut both their cables and sent her home and she wanted to marry him and she grew up. 

 

Young Joon 's name was originally not this name but Seung _____ but when he got home after his kidnapping, he realised that his brother got too guilty at the kidnapping that he imagined himself being the target of kidnapping instead becoming violent and lashing out at Young Joon for the bullying and  kidnapping. It became an unhealthy situation at home and with the parents at a loss to what to do with the father suggested sending the brother to the mental hospital, thus Young Joon faked anesthesia  pretending to have forgotten anything and even apologising to his brother. The parents thus changed his name and pretended that his brother was the subject of the kidnapping instead.  As such, all this while Young Joon knew who Mi So was and also got her as his secretary for that reason.

 

Mi So  originally thought that the brother was the one who was kidnapped with her but Young Joon's mother told her that the one who was kidnapped wore a custom made designer shirt from a famous designer which Young Joon's brother did not have and that shirt was wore the day he was kidnapped and also the shirt in her memories . Thus, she knew that Young Joon was the brother in her dreams.

 

The chinese version of webtoon still ongoing and stopped where Mi So and Young Joon just officially became a couple and went for a vacation to celebrate Christmas. There will be a number of skinship moments including backhugs, few passionate kisses and a bed scene.

 

[[Drama 2017] While You Were Sleeping, 당신이 잠든 사이에]

Commenting again after a long time, I think that this show is interesting and not repetitive as stated by some as well as in blogs like dramabeans due to the different philosophical questions you seeks to ask as well the values it tries to espouse. For example, in the last case of the archer, should someone be prosecuted and brought to court even if he is not guilty as it is easier to do so due to the public uproar of the case as well as how easily we become judgmental and blinded by emotions like anger and pain. In the current case the last 2 episodes, it asks the questions of equality whether each life is just as valuable or if 1 life can be swept aside with justice not meted if 7 people can be saved. 

 

It also brought up once again in the closing argument of today's case with relates to other cases as well the cardinal principle of all research that correlation does not equates to causation. Lee Yu Beom's defense of the writer was that the man was still at a brain dead state and he was brought to dead not by the writer but by the decision of the father to agree to the transplant and the doctor who killed the man to facilitate thus, the responsibility should be with the father and doctor and not the writer. Jae Chan's counter argument inspired by Hong Joo was precisely this principle that even if the doctor and father did not do anything, the man in the brain state will still die but on the other hand if the writer did not hit the man and push him down, he would not be in that state in the first place.This then brought both Hong Joo and Prosecutor Sohn out of their self guilt as with or without them, Hong Joo's father would have died, Jae Chan would have been shot or stabbed, people would have died and be available for transplant anyway. 

 

The deeper meaning of the portrayal of these procedural is thus less of the cases but more of what can be derived out of these cases on questions like the meaning of life etc that is applicable and learned possibly for the rest of us in our respective lives. 

 

That being said, I am quite surprised in shows and even in real life examples at how lax korean law is, here, a murderer only got 10 years, in real life, the sewol ferry captain only got 15 years if I am not wrong. Does a person have to kill many people to get life imprisonment. 

[[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비]

The final scene brings about the paradox regarding the sword and Kim Shin's life and death. To pull out the sword, he has to love the bride and but in doing so, he will want to live and not let her pull out the sword. However, the reason why she is able to continue to live is because she is the Goblin's bride, thus it is the Goblin that enables her to live. Thus, if she is unable to pull out the sword, she ceases to fulfill her value and role, she will thus according to Samshin Granny be involved in more and more violent accidents which may include Kim Shin killing her personally. Thus, his continual desire to live will be an the expense of hers while his death will allow her to continue to live.

In the upcoming episode with Euntaek knowing the truth as well, this then results in a pull-push relationship again between the both of them regarding the sword pulling.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

As we reached the last few episodes, it is now quite apparent to me that the lack of episodes 20 compared to 45 in the C-version while trying to essentially squeeze in the same plot is really undermining the quality as everything gets rushed together. While in the C-version, there are very compelling reasons for Yong Zheng the emperor to act the way he did and everything had a sense of inevitability as everything tied together in a tragic manner, here the rushed nature of the plot where little is explained and major scenes are just put together with little context, everything just seems personal. E.g. targeting of 14th prince because of his mother, and releasing of anger at  the 8th and 9th Prince also because of that and Hae Soo. In the end, rather than a series of compelling reasons tied together e.g loss of child, death of 8th prince wife, Chae ryong's horrible death, eunuchs  etc, in this version , it just boiled down to Hae Soo unhappy with the treatment of the 14th prince and Chae ryong's death and she just simply gives up and wants to leave the palace which is pretty weak for a rationale.

Probably the biggest difference and most compelling scene in this episode is that between Yeon Hwa and Wang So. If not for the presence of Hae Soo, the both of them may actually be kindred spirits, both vulnerable, fearful of being abandoned, insecure and wish to be acknowledged but try to act tough and fierce all the time to avoid rejection and gain recognition and secretly wanting to be loved even if they claim to be fine without it thus Wang So is desperate to be a good person in front of Hae Soo and Yeonhwa in front on Wang So as seen from her various emotions in front of him. In Wang So's case, he ultimately failed as his mother treated him like scum all the way to the end and I think not think that Hae Soo actually understood this dynamic between Wang So and his mother. In Yeonhwa's case , it is probably also destined for failure although Wang So asked her to prove her loyalty and commitment to him by abandoning Wook and her family, he claims that if she is able to do so then she can bear a child with him and become Queen Dowager as she wish.

The last episodes look like it will probably just reenact what happened in the C-version but without the essence or soul of the story selling the emotions because of its rushed nature, I hope that that will not be the case. 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

While the 8th Prince in the C-version may have split with Ruoxi due to his ambition for the throne, he still continued to look out for her best interests and continued to care for her till the end, thus it is somewhat surprising that in this version the 8th prince is really a total jerk. The reason why he agreed to help Yeonhwa become the empress is simply because he failed to get the throne and her whereas Wang So did thus since he cannot be happy, he would not allow them to be happy as well. In this version so well, the character trajectory of the 8th prince for me has been the biggest surprise since the character become since a villain in many ways, the two faced nature, hypocrisy, cold-heartedness. At least in the other version, he truly cared for the people close to him e.g. 10th prince, 9th prince and 14th Prince and his family, here, it is even doubtful at times if he even cares for his mother and sister or just sees them as a burden to him.

As for Yeon Hwa, I find myself unable to hate her as she has been struggling all this while and only now probably finally thinks that she is at least spared from death or exile and is able to get the best of both worlds where she gets the power she wants and the person she loves even if that person does not exactly love her. Honestly speaking, if she was just greedy and power hungry, she could have just married Wang Yo and get him to make her queen like he suggested. 

In terms of direction of the show, it looks like in this version, Hae Soo will probably leave the palace with the 14th prince similar to the C-version with a edict probably from Wang Yo and it is intriguing if Chae Ryong will be steamed like a bun to death as well since her relationship with the 9th prince is coming to light and she is clearly spied on. 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

It looks like the international version (youku) episode 16 is available and I am downloading it now, this means that dramafever may or may not upload the episode, episode 17 remains up in the balance for the youku version if the episode is only broadcasted on SBS next week. Those interested and able to understand chinese subs can pm me for the dailymotion link I found.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Today's episode was a long overdue transition on various ends. On the political end, Taejo's demise finally came which set all the players off laying all the chess pieces to checkmate the opponent. Wang Wook in that regard truly excelled laying all the pieces to ensure a win win situation for himself no matter who won, giving info about Wang Yo's plot to the crown prince and participated in the coup with Wang Yo thus even making people like Wang Yo and Yeon Hwa look like hot headed and short-sighted amateurs.

The king's mission for Hae Soo to find the crown Prince was in itself quite useless but was a very useful plot mechanism to firstly get Hae Soo to be very vigilant about people's motives and stop being overly trusting thus allowing her to see Wang Wook for the person he is: manipulative and willing to make use of her to achieve his ends and abandon her when needed and always using her as a pretext for his actions but never fully trusting of her. It also allowed a smooth transition to Wang So as she found herself to be trusting of him in such a critical situation while also making use of Baek An and Woo Hee to get the Crown Prince thereby allowing them to bond as well.

On the emotional front, the political transition which included the chase of Wang Yo also gave further example of the differing personalities with Wang Wook being very cold-blooded while Wang So did the job only to be very upset after that thus allowing Hae Soo to further bond with him. 

With the Crown Prince becoming king and Wang Yo launching a coup as early as the next episode, it is interesting to see what will actually get Wang So to marry Yeon Hwa since at the current stage, there seems to be no necessity to do so unless it becomes a case of Wang So wanting to combine forces and her clan to overthrow Wang Yo as king. Even then, with Wang Wook seemingly being aligned with Wang Yo, that seems unlikely unless he gets killed.

PS: People falling off cliffs or into the sea in dramas somehow never die, getting rescued instead, thus I knew that Wang Yo will survive falling off the cliff and the preview immediately confirmed that.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Two scenes in tonight episodes stood out for me. The first is the scene between the king and Hae Su with his insightful words which encapsulated the situation in the Chinese version and also this version. He said that if you are not able to view events happening in the palace with cold indifference, no matter where you are, the situation will be the same ( she will be unable to find inner peace), this was the reason why in the chinese version, Ruo Xi had to leave the palace as she put everything on her shoulders, tried to change things, got upset and disillusioned when things happened. The king then said do not be obsessed with the future such that you lose people in the present, another problem in both versions, here as Hae Soo pushes away Wang So because of the visions he has been seeing. 

The second scene is that between Yeon Hwa and Wang So which was intriguing yet somewhat weird and out of character. It was intriguing as on one hand Yeon Hwa seems to be embracing what the king said in his second statement about not being obsessed by the future and decides to pursue her heart desires instead. It is just that the timing is weird considering that only a year ago, she plotted to split Wang Wook and Hae Soo with the result being Wang So being drawn closer to her. If the two have gotten married, she would have a much better chance. The reason she used in her love confession was also out of character as she said that we are fated to be together to Wang So, however, her personality is that of a go getter which believes in internal factors not external ones, thus you would have thought that she would have provided a more rational, analytical explanation for marriage that something like fate.

From her scene with the Queen, it looks like she is probably the only person whom the Queen will possibly fear and can become a worthy adversary to the Queen making her quite an asset, despite being rejected, perhaps from now on, perhaps she will help Wang So with his quest to be king if he wants to be a king. It is disappointing that half of the scene was cut in the international version as I thought that it was rather important.

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

While this was an extremely sad episodes with extremely tough decisions having to be made by everybody ie King, WS,WW, Lady Oh etc, it was also a masterpiece in political machinations and delicious evil by Yeon Hwa from the beginning as she turn situations around at ease. In the first scene, she was able to kill two birds with one stone by distracting others by talking about WW's remarriage then innocuously drinking( pretending to drink?) the poisoned tea and fainting thereby drawing attention to WS's condition and exposing what WS tried to hide thereby getting HS in jail. Then, when she was found out by WW, she stirred the flames by stating that she knows his true intentions to be the king and raised various examples e.g rain ritual and emotionally blackmailed him to abandon her and their mother.  Finally, she probably confessed her crimes to her mother and got her mother to stop WW from intervening with HS kneeing in front of the palace. As a result, ultimately she achieved her two objectives of getting Hae Soo out of the way and making WW compete for the throne again.

It is no wonder why Wang Yo thinks that she is the most worthy queen material as to be king and successfully control the various nobles, such a person who is adept in politics and political machinations is needed. 

With this episode, it finally marks the transition to phrase 2 where the political strife intensifies, however unlike the Chinese version, in this version , there will be 3 transitions from Wang Geon to Wang Mu to Wang Yo then Wang So, it is a wonder how they are going to cover it in 9 episodes, as such there will probably be a few time leaps in the show.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Having watched the SBS version live and then the international version with chinese subs, the editing for the international version is as bad as it gets which is incredible as it is pre-produced, there was even a part in which the scene was repeated. Episode wise, the rain ceremony was very significant as the king's legitimacy comes from the fact that he is supposed to be the dragon or son of the dragon which has the mandate of the heaven, thus the lack of rain poses strong legitimacy concerns that the heavens is unhappy or the king has lost the mandate to rule, thus such ceremonies. It can obviously be manipulated as the various players did or tried to do. 

Thus, the fact that Wang So almost immediately succeeded in praying for rain would have gain him great popularity and legitimacy among the people. The result of it is that he got rid of his label as a monster and in fact propelled him based on stature and prestige in front of Wang Yo to be next in line after the Crown Prince, thus making the Queen extremely angry.

From the next episode preview, it looks that Hae Soo following  a similar trajectory as the China version will distance herself from Wang So and start the string of events that will ultimately lead to the history she fears thereby inevitably becoming the facilitator of the events that she knows about.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

1 hour ago, bebebisous33 said:

In my opinion, his sacrifice will be to marry Yeon Hwa in order to protect Hae Soo because he needs to be king. Becoming the king will be his goal in order to protect Hae Soo.

@ChyuuNyuu @theonlyone88 I wanted to reply to your posts about Yeon Hwa. Yes, from my point of view, Yeon Hwa has some feelings for Wang So but she is resolute enough to accept an arranged marriage, if her marriage improves her social status. She can live without love. When I said "manipulate So", I wasn't saying that So will become her puppet, but by turning him into a human, she has a certain definition how Wang So should be. She would like him to have the same goal (becoming Queen and King) and the same intention (reinforcing their position and protecting their family) and to me get her revenge to the Queen Yoo. She wants him to show interest for her, but so far, Wang So has ignored her. The reasons why Wang So is the best option (despite her feelings) are:

- His ranking, he is the 4th prince 

- His bad reputation: he can be ruthless  and he is determined

- She knows that Wang So is not accepted by his mother so that she thought, they have a common enemy 

- He is not married so that she will be his first wife

@evie7 @littleloony @Yongzura

 

I can fully understand where you are coming from and I also do think that he will want to become become king to protect the ones he love and value. However, I do think that  we as viewers have to completely disregard our modern sensibilities if we are to look at things objectively based on the context of the time period. Firstly, the notion of monogamy are only quite a recent concept and definitely not existing in the past especially in royal or noble families, it is only made that way in dramas to be socially acceptable. I do not think that marrying Yeon Hwa will be considered a sacrifice to Wang So if you look at scenes featuring the both of them e.g him stating he wonders how she will grow up to be and apologizing after preventing her from whipping Hae Soo in front of the others. He may not view her in a romantic light but nevertheless she is someone he values and a small part of him wanting to become king may be also to protect her.  In fact, in Asian countries, as close to 20-30 years ago, arranged marriages was the norm and love before a marriage was not a factor.

Secondly, issue of fundamental attribution error, in kdramas, there is the main leads and main cp and the second leads. We as viewers may have over analyse things and think too well of the main leads and think too badly of the second leads especially if they are tagged as the antagonists. In this instance at least up to the current episodes,  I do not think that Yeon Hwa is actually interested in taking revenge, if you look at her interactions with the Queen, she is actually fearful and putting a strong front and haughty so as to not display weaknesses. As she is in a position of weakness, her main thoughts and focus is to lever the odds, thus in front of the king, the image of the perfect daughter, in front of the queen and siblings, capable, resolute and haughty. In front of her servants, rigid and obsessed on proper rules and somewhat unemphatic. Thus, I do not think that she has actually thought that far in terms of Wang So as you mentioned above.

This character is the most intriguing to me at least probably because it does not have a equivalent in the Chinese version of the drama thus its trajectory is unknown and open to creative interpretation by the scriptwriters unlike the main leads. Anyway, this is just my honest opinion about the matters without trying to pick a fight as I fully understand where you come from even if I find your opinion ahead of the current stage (perhaps it may be true in the later episodes) which make it somewhat judgmental and over critical.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

9 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

True... but look at the way she behaved towards lady Hae. She was rather cold and distant. She wanted to get rid of her, once she realised that she was so sick. She views people as disposable. On the other hand, lady Hae was not cold-hearted and didn't mistrust people like her sister-in-law. Lady Hae had a different conception of life that's why she tried to push her husband to marry someone he loves. Both come from the same social background. Lady Hae knew how life at the palace is, but she cared much more about happiness than power itself. Sure, Yeon Hwa is traumatised that's why she is so blind to others' feelings. In her head, she is trying to survive, but she is doing it at others' expense. That's why the difference between Hae Soo and Yeon Hwa can't be just explained that the one comes from 21st century and the other from the 10th century. Notice that JM is not pushing Wang So to Yeon Hwa.  

You have a point there although Lady Hae was part of a noble clan who lived away from the capital thus she had a more carefree childhood as compared to Yeon Hwa who was immediate royal family being targeted by the other queen (So, Jung, Yo's mother). I think that the remaining mysteries of the drama as according to Yeon Hwa's character synopsis will be what made her switch from Wook to So as how did they get married in the first place since her heart may sway to him but rationally he was not one of her choices due to his facial features and lack of ambition. From the character synopsis, it feels like she will be forced to marry So to marginalise her away from power but she will try to make lemonades from lemons and make him king instead although he may do it because of Hae Soo and the prodding of the General.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

9 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

But why does she want to change him? Why can she not accept him as he is? It's because she needs him as someone who is accepted by society. Therefore I say that she is using him. She needs him to be presentable so that she can use him as her weapon to become Queen. That's why I consider it as a selfish motivation. She is not really interested in his true personality and feelings. What matters to her is social status. Look at the way she treats people: for her, social status is essential therefore f. ex. she abuses her power over Hae Soo to send her away (episode 7).

Yeon hwa wants him to be interested in her because this would reveal that Wang So might be interested in the Crown and Goryeo. Right now, Wang So is more focused on survival and being accepted by his family. Yeon hwa is definitely not sensitive enough to notice his trauma. She only looks at his scar and mask, while Hae Soo has seen him through. Yeon Hwa's perception of Wang So is wrong: she considers him as cold, cunning and level-headed, as someone similar to her because it is also based on his actions and rumours. For her, he only needs more polishing: better manners and education. The origin of her misjudgement comes from her personality: she is more self-centered and selfish, that's why she is only thinking on how achieving her goal. 

I would say that this character as of now is not very developed yet however based on what she said so far and the bits of information that has to be given, you can say that Yeon Hwa has a strong trauma based on being chased out, hiding and almost dying ( Wang Wook mentioned when he first killed somebody). As such, she has a strong sense of insecurity and fears getting abandoned or killed at any point of time, thus to her if you look at it from the perspective of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, she still has not fulfilled basic needs of security to bother about higher order needs like love and care and concern for others. 

Thus, while she may prefer Wang So if she is to marry anyone, she is very realistic about things, thus, her primary aim at present is to get Wang Wook to be king as they are direct siblings. She still has some hope that she can marry Wang So thus all the attempts to test the water with him through her questions but this does not override her survival needs thus he has to fit into the bigger scheme of things ie being socially acceptable and moving towards direction of being king. 

Fundamentally, the reason why she acts differently from Hae Soo e.g. reaction towards Wang So's face is probably the case of conditioning and values. In modern society, it comes from a place of trust and though news and social media, we are exposed to various images thus a face like Wang So is probably no big deal and Hae Soo can believe the way she behave despite the betrayal she received from her boyfriend and good friend is due to the fact that she generally still trust people. However, during the Goryeo era, people especially royals probably are kept rather isolated and do not trust other people in general, thus given the taboo in seeing people who are scarred, it is probably the first time Yeon Hwa and the princes are seeing a scarred people which makes their reaction actually perfectly normal. In that upbringing, conditioning and level of distrust, it is also not surprise that the people are all generally self-centered, cold and unhelpful as being helpful and kind gives others the feeling that you are easily bullied or weak.

In general, thus, I do think that Yeon Hwa's behaviour as far is actually quite expected and if she was to actually accept Wang So for who he is, then that would truly be out of character.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Given Hae Soo's misgivings towards Gwang Jong, I think that what ultimately makes Wang So becomes isolated, paranoid and cruel in killing all those person could very well be her. In the chinese version, a major problem with the female lead Ruo Xi is that she relied too much on her knowledge of history and modern values and sensibilities, as a result she became very critical and judgmental about everything the 4th prince did after he became king and automatically assumes that he did wrong without really bothering to understand where he came from and the difficulties that he has as a king which led him to make such decisions. I can speculate that this will probably be the case for Hae Soo, since at such a  early stage, he is already worrying about the brothers.

[[Drama 2016] Moonlight Drawn by Clouds / Love in the Moonlight ☪ 구르미 그린 달빛]

I am already starting to have strong sympathies for the 2 second lead characters Yoon Sung and Ha Yeon. In Ha Yeon's case, she has so far shown herself to be free-spirited and independent and knowledgeable and and is described by her father to be one that says whatever she likes and have a competitive spirit not losing to men. She also rejects arranged marriages and wants to marry a man she likes. In other shows, that would be a lead character and she will probably make a loyal companion, friend and able queen to the right king even without romantic feelings if treated well . However, judging from the episodes and the synopsis, it looks like the crown prince will just take her to be a political tool without a mind of her own similar to the current express thus treating her with cold indifference and derision . This will then make her jaded, jealous and scheming.

For Yoon Sung, in the episodes, it is quite clear that he has affection for the crown prince and sincerely wants the best for Ra On e.g scene where he offers to send her out of the palace and enable her to live as a women, getting the China imperial censor. However, the crown prince pushes him aside due to his family similar to how he will probably push aside Ha Yeon. Yoon Sung will probably suffer plenty of heartbreak as well in the upcoming episodes and Ra On falls more deeply for the crown prince.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

The emotional abuse suffered by Wang So from everybody (King, Queen, 8th and even 14th Prince) was quite unbearable to watch, which honestly makes anyone going through that in a killing mood. Yeon Hwa is truly sympathetic as it seems like she is actually quite a nice person just in the Goryeo era, everybody has to be standoffish and she conditions herself to be haughty and sarcastic to protect herself when she is actually rather vulnerable. If it was the modern era, Hae Soo and Yeon Hwa could possibly have become friends. Hopefully, there will be more depth to the character portraying her as a capable women of her own doing her part for her loved ones rather than the usual female second lead petty and jilted and jealous women. This is especially since in the C-version, Yong Zheng's wife was quietly supportive and was a virtuous queen .

In general, tonight's episode had a lot of miserable characters, 8th prince's wife who is upset and lonely and well aware of her husband's affections, 8th prince who tries to hide his feelings, 4th prince from all the mistreatment, Yeon Hwa whose loved ones seems to be gravitating away from her. It makes quite a compelling watch.

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

1 hour ago, junee22 said:

I have trouble with this..what is are code anyway??oh well..I give up 

When you sign up , you are asked to put your email address, they will then send a verification code to your mailbox, fill in the 6 digit number that they send you and click verify. If it is correct, it will state verification success. It has nothing to do with your phone number but the format makes it a little misleading.

[[Drama 2016] W-Two Worlds 더블유]

From tonight's episode, it seems to show that YJ's emotions is what would determine the fate of the comic not its details but its longevity. It ended when YJ became upset and concerned for her father and told the producers that her father will be retiring and there will be no continuation, thus that was the end. However, subsequently, as her feelings changed with the attempt to save KC in the sea and idea to get a boat to save KC, thus her will to save KC was what resulted in her idea becoming reality and her plunging back into the comic world. The masked killer is still a big question mark to be answered in future episodes but it does seems like a new beginning with a reboot of the series.

[[Drama 2016] Doctors 닥터스]

7 hours ago, lclarakl said:

 

Seo Woo is not that helpless or defenseless or fearful. She boldly let it be known that she was the one that started the rumor  about Hye Jung and Ji Hong and she didn't try to hide it.  She didn't care that her teacher could have retaliated and gave her bad grades. If she was the person you described, she would have anonymously spread the rumor about Hye Jung and Ji Hong, but she didn't. She didn't care that either one of them could have sued her for defamation/slander.  She didn't care because she knew her parents would protect her.  She's not afraid of failure, she's afraid of coming in second behind someone who she thinks is less than her.....she's a snob. It showed in her comment about the small college Hye Jung went to.  In the emergency situation, she didn't act because she couldn't. She didn't have a cool enough head to call 119 (911).  You have people who are book smart, but at times can't make practical application.  

I think you're giving Seo Woo a little more credit than she deserves.  Then again I may be too critical of her, but for what I've seen depicted in this drama, that's the impression I have of her.

The way I look at it, because she is actually insecure and afraid of failure, to help her cope with it, she has to portray a tough image and show no sign of weakness thus she boldly admits to starting the rumor but could be secretly fearful. Secondly, she has to constantly rationalize to herself that she is the best and everybody is beneath herself and she she is the best, thus this becomes reflected in her behaviour. However, Hye Jung's presence and actions e.g. going from not studying to top in class, becoming a fellow in adverse circumstances severely threatens this rationalization that she has. As such, she is desperately doing all sorts of things to alleviate this threat to her.

[[Drama 2016] Doctors 닥터스]

4 hours ago, lclarakl said:

 

I truly see Seo Woo differently from how you see her. I didn't say Seo Woo was lazy, because she's not. The writer made a point of showing how Seo has to study very hard in order to make good grades; but she's not as smart as Hye Jung.  Seo Woo was the smartest person in her class until Hye Jung came. She couldn't believe that poor Hye Jung who said she didn't know how to study, could read a book and make the highest score in class.  What Seo Woo didn't know was that Hye Jung is a genius with an iQ to prove it. Seo Woo insured that her competition would be removed and made no effort to correct the lie that had Hye Jung in jail. Even years later, she wondered if Hye Jung was in and out of the emergency room---as a patient; she thought so little of her.

I'm not judging Seo Woo skills based on her father, but I was not impressed with her being a seasoned doctor not knowing how to handle an emergency situation---not the person I want to have operating on me. I just have to wonder if she went into this particular field because she wanted to or because she felt obligated to because of her father and grandfather.....I also wonder if she chose Neurology because she was interested in that branch of medicine or because she wanted to be close to Dr. Yoon Do. 

Seo Woo's problem with Hye Jung, started way before she saw her standing up for herself against Dr. Yoon Do who was in the wrong and was made a fool by his own need to chastise Hye Jung.  Seo Woo's problem started, not because Hye Jung was different back in high school or even different now, but it's because she was smarter than her and the teacher she had a crush on showed more interest in Hye Jung, the person she thought she was more superior than.

From what I've seen in this drama, Seo Woo wasn't trying to fit in with any groups and didn't care that Hye Jung was different because she wasn't her 'equal' in her mind. Seo Woo only began to care when she realized Hye Jung was smarter and could get the man. I don't know if Seo Woo, as an adult, is worried about "stardom" as much as she is knowing Hye Jung will be serious competition when it comes to Dr. Hong and Dr. Do; and Hye Jung gaining their admiration (for her it won't matter about the rest of the hospital staff, just those two doctors). 

 

 

Seo Woo is insecure and often hesitant because she is afraid of failure, from young, a lot of pressure is placed on her and to win the approval of her parents and others, she had to cultivate a certain image and then uphold that image of her. This made her afraid to do anything to upset that impression that she has created for her e.g in the emergency situation as she may screw up. That is also why she is so afraid of Hye Jung as Hye Jung does things e.g. studies effortlessly due to her intelligence and naturally gravitates people towards her good or bad and Seo Woo is scared that try as she might she was not be able to match up to it thus the petty tricks like SNS rumors, making little reports about her etc. She has too much to lose and nothing much to gain, thus essentially, for her to change and be a better person, the facade that she built for herself has to be broken first and she also needs to lose everything first as well. That is probably where Hye Jung can come in and perhaps they can be friends.

[[Drama 2016] Doctors 닥터스]

2 episodes in and the 2 female leads Hye Jung and Seo Woo makes for an interesting character analysis, both actually come from similar family circumstances, lack of love and emotional abuse. On the part of Hye Jung,it is her father being besotted with another women and neglecting the family leading to her mother's death, for Seo Woo, it is her parent's usage of her a tool to achieve what they themselves failed to achieve leading her to feel like a machine or robot. They both thus have a desire for affection and love for others but go in different directions to do so, Hye Jung becomes deviant and do all sorts of funny things to gain attention whereas Seo Woo sublimates this desire into her studies in the hope of doing well and becoming a model daughter and student to do so. The trouble in the 2nd episode between the both of them came when Hye Jung in the true belief that she is bad in studies as she never attempt to study asked Seo Woo to guide her which Seo Woo did so in the hope for praise and affection from Ji Hong and further solidify her credentials as a model pupil. However, Hye Jung with her talent topped Seo Woo to become top of the class. With that and the sight of Hye Jung and Ji Hong getting very close and their friend seemingly siding with Hye Jung. This led Seo Woo to think that Hye Jung purposely misled and backstabbed her so as to steal her friend and the people she liked Ji Hong away from her leading to the big quarrel in the fire scene.

The story now moves 10 years later where their rivalry probably continues in the hospital in the backdrop where Seo Woo's father and the other guy will probably be fighting Ji Hong for control of the hospital. Hopefully, there will be more medical scenes and less politics and intrigue.

[[Drama 2016] Doctors 닥터스]

2 hours ago, mujay said:

Is that so....however should we not overlook the story become romance betwen Hj & Jh only then.there are many cast in it, i more excited her relationship with LSK, why they become friendnemy and how good the writer expline to us their rivalry, i wish the story same level with the other Sbs doctor story ''Sorgeon Bong dal he'', not to much love line but the story is interesting and rewarding with good rating and award for their actor.DOCTORS TEAM FAIGHTING.

The relationship between two girls will probably be fascinating especially in the earlier stages as well. If I am to speculate, I would infer that Lee Sung Kyung's character already had a friendly relationship by Jihong as student and teacher, then Hye Jung came into the picture and seems to be close to him. This piqued the interest of her and she started approaching Hye Jung to find out more about her and they gradually became friends although she was still a bit jealous of her. This jealousy grew despite the happy moments finally resulting in the fire incident and Hye Jung left the place only to meet the both of them again in the hospital which again will rekindle a friendship and rivalry extending into work. It remains to be seen if her character is one that is generally nice but vulnerable or flawed or just simply a aloof and bitchy character.

[[Drama 2016] Doctors 닥터스]

22 minutes ago, mujay said:

OH no ...i feel very confused now...why all of us talk about JH and Hj, in very start...so where Ji so state then..? could be the plot row is she know Ji so first and then the teacher...why suddenly the story plot coming to drastic with student-theacher love story..? that's why many comment went out to negative turn..? even the teaser didn't help us to cleared out behind story betwen Sc and Hj..whom make her turn her way to be diferent person...does this mean the writer change the story for our sake... should she just stick with first plot about relationship betwen Hj &Sc..?...i will regret it when the story turn out to be cheap and open up to bolger bashing it, in any rate nobody open up with idea student- theacher romance..this is diferent when we talk about 10 years later, So dear writernim ..i though is more beautiful, when someone in Hj heart for first love is Sc,..this is more accepable..and make us feel her grieving because lost her first love and that reason make our heart more flutering..when we saw how hard JH tried win over her heart...because his competitor is died already....so where the story goes then..? 

According to the trailer, Hye Jung stayed with her father in Seoul where she created a lot of trouble after the death of her mother probably to keep on catching the attention of her father who she fears will abandon her anytime thus I think that the gangster and club activities will happen in Seoul. In the drama stills, she was involved with Ji Soo during that time, thus, it is probably before she moved to the countryside and meet Ji Hong.