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Thanks @homura, I was just going to ask you about the girl with the notebook! LOL Although I didn't understand what was being said, but she sounded like she spoke a different dialect from the rest which got me thinking. Ahhh but what happens to BY and GB, if that young girl is Ms Dodam. I am filled with dread.

But loved the scenes with MH! Awesome! So he hasn't earned his wings yet? Hmppphhh and here i thought that with that transformation, he finally did. But it shouldn't be long right? Really really can't wait for the next episode.  I didn't understand the exchange between BW and Prince Zhu Di, but BW didn't show his fear even for a second... even without understanding a word, I can still say BW was nothing short of AMAZING. And I was thinking that no other Prince of Joseon could have done what BW did, and I don't think even Sambong or LSG could have done it. I was also amused just looking at Ha Ryun's wide eyed shocked expression through out. Anyway. Can't wait for subs now.

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3 hours ago, zenya22 said:

This is also an exquisitely ardent and poignant love story of two people intensely in love. BY is the woman whom BW promised to love until the day he dies. She is the woman he desperately wants to be at his side but he is afraid that because of this political fight he could lose her. She loves him dearly and quietly and simply. She is also his life. Losing her and losing his dreams is a beating he can’t take.

So, for BW, the way I see it, he is fighting for his life. So I would say desperation is what drives/motivates him now. Who does not want to live? I don’t know if I am making sense. Maybe I am just an old romantic fool at heart.

@zenya22, you just made me cry. I really agree with you, especially that part I highlighted. BY's love for BW is amazing, because she loves him all by herself, from a distance, and never tries to bridge it except through the work she does for him. When he told her to stop talking to him in banmal she did so immediately, and in fact now always addresses him as Your Highness.

I think you are right too, that his motivation is his desperation to survive. It makes sense to me. BW will be BW, and as himself he is a threat to JDJ and to his own father. ... and really, you ARE romantic, but then so am I. Hehehe.

Anyway. SFD is so much more than BW and BY's romance, and I love all parts of it. But the writers gave us such a poignant romance... and it succeeds in making BW even more human for us. I wasn't sure in the beginning what I would feel by drama end, knowing what would happen with BW. But it looks like I'm Team BangWon to the end. And in no small part thanks to the writers for showing us BW's inner motivations and that he can love a woman like he does, and of course the other factor has to be YAI's amazing charismatic performance. He is truly amazing. I can't stop praising him... I thought Geulro was his ultimate best performance, but now BW is making me rethink that thought.

@homura I think I thank you every week, and I can't stop. Thank you isn't sufficient. Thank you for the background history and your own personal thoughts. So very helpful and makes my SFD watching experience so much more meaningful. Looking forward to tonight - I hope it's the episode that BW goes to China. I read that he impresses the emperor so much with his wit and intelligence, and can't wait to watch that!

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Please rest well @homura! Translation is very tiring - I also sometimes translate English subs to my native language in my free time. It can be exhausting, especially sageuks because of the old fashioned language. So I can imagine how tired you must be. Thank you so much for enlightening us as to BY's choice. Still it confirms for me that BY and BW understand each other and love each other very deeply. Only BW could read her tactics so clearly. I honestly hope even if it doesn't last, there will be some meaningful memories for them to share in the near future. 

Take your time and come back and chat when you're ready. Hugs!

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Yes I second @andy78's question. I watched the episode - although in stops and starts because the streaming was lagging quite badly, but it got much better near the end so I had more of an idea what was going on. Thank you @homura for translating that scene between Sambong and BW - I had it opened when the scene came up and for once, I understood everything that was said! Hehe. Anyway even though I watched, I'm not sure what BY said. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed like she chose neither side, and decided to go back to her hometown? It didn't seem like she chose Sambong, and from the hurt in BW's eyes, it didn't seem like she chose him either.

But... that scene in the end... Sambong was coming to arrest BW, is that right? It might be a turning point for BY. I think she tried to make a case for BW with Sambong in the cave, but she failed. But rather than being torn apart by both parties she had decided to leave. Maybe, seeing how much Sambong has changed since coming into power, would BY rethink her decision and stay with BW?

Obviously I'm totally in BW's camp, and I'm desperate for them to have some happy moments together. Hope the writers would indulge us, even though they broke our hearts today.

Anyway... sorry I have been MIA. Sometimes real life has a way of coming in between my guilty pleasure of hanging out in Soompi. But I have been watching, and reading this marvellous marvellous thread. Thank you all dragons who have kept the discussion alive - I love it... and of course words can't describe how grateful I am for @homura. What would I do without your weekly historical background round up? I feel like I know more Joseon history than my own country's now. LOL Hugs and belated Seollal to all.

 

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12 minutes ago, homura said:

Guys, I'm gradually afraid that Moo-Hyul's 6th dragon credit will be given at the end of the final episode. (Sigh) I'm also wondering why Bang-Won didn't tell Moo-Hyul about his plan to kill Jung Mong-Joo at all. He left Moo-Hyul at home and didn't tell him anything about it. Is Moo-Hyul like his last conscience? He didn't want to let Moo-Hyul know about his dark side?

 

I was wondering the same thing... and perhaps it's true? Because MH thinks so highly of him, and he didn't want MH's opinion of him to change. Maybe that's why. 

I could feel it.... how hard it was for Bang Won. Talk about being in between a rock and a hard place. He made such a difficult decision, from which his father and Sambong will forever blame him. And yet he saved them all - Sambong would have been dead the next day had Poeun still been alive. But I can't get over that scene on Seonjuk Bridge. Even though I didn't understand most of it (I must start learning Korean!), the tension, the sadness, the desperation was so palpable. Both actors did so well. So amazing I felt like giving it a standing ovation - but then the rest of my family would have thought I was nuts. 

And coming home to find comfort in Bongyi, thank God she's on his side. Poor baby. And I can't keep the look of contempt YSG gave BW out of my mind. Another powerful powerful scene. Oh gosh this drama. 

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OMG OMG OMG

I just wanted to say... BW cried. And I cried with him.

But it was so brutal.

Gosh.

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Wow... Can I just say wow! So pumped up by Ep 35... Amazing amazing episode. Not a single swordfighgt but so exciting my heart is still pounding from the excitement. Loved LBW's first encounter with JMS. It's no wonder JMS regarded him so highly till the end... Who wouldn't. Really BW is just so amazingly brave, he turns everything around when you least expect it. And he's done so much,  risked so much for his father and the birth of Joseon that one can see why, later on, he becomes so disappointed with how his father and Sambong both turned on him.  He literally saved everyone by killing Poeun - it's a huge risk and a huge sacrifice.

And I loved that in that eleventh hour as he ponders and fears and feels alone, BY is there for him and is totally behind him all the way.  So far their relationship is going the way I hoped, and I'm glad. For BW especially who without BY would find himself terribly alone.

Seonjuk bridge is happening tonight... Poeun deserves our respect for his undying loyalty to King and country, and yet I felt his death is justified. Because out of the three, YSG, Sambong and Poeun, it turns out that only Poeun has the stomach to betray his close friends and brothers. YSG and Sambong, despite their lofty aspirations would never do likewise to Poeun. Even when he knew that Poeun sent assassins to kill him... YSG it seems is a little too idealistic and naive. So thank God for BW, I say.

I'm also so looking forward to MH earning his wings by defeating CSG. But it looks from the preview that LBJ encounters her first? And survives? Because we know he is still alive in TWDR. Can't wait for tonight when all the questions will be answered

This drama is just getting better and better!

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@homura, I'm echoing @liddi's thanks! Jo Mal Saeng was one of my favorite 'baddies' in TWDR, and looking forward to getting to know how he was in his younger years. I'm sure there's a backstory to his strong allegiance to King Taejong... well, besides probably wanting to be allied with the strongest and most powerful in the land for his own survival. Hehe. 

And ack! there's going to be a....

Spoiler

tragic ending to YH and LBJ? I guess YH dies? Because LBJ was still alive in TWDR, albeit forever carrying his burden of guilt for the death of JDJ (and YH I would assume). OMG I know something sad was going to come... I just didn't want to think about it. But we're down to the last 18 episodes now and on the cusp of JMJ's death and the birth of Joseon. LBW has officially become the LBW. I am most fearful about what will happen to BY. But yes... my poor DangSae too, and his YH. I hope the writers give them some happy times before the end at least.

 

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@USAFarmgirl... thank you so much for such a beautiful beautiful post.

This drama.... this Six Flying Dragons... I never thought I could watch anything longer than 24 episodes and not get bored, and now its already episode 32 and I barely felt all those episodes go by. In fact the thought that there are only 18 episodes left, and still so much story to tell... I don't want it to end just yet. I have not been bored once.. there were episodes that were more talky talky and some more action packed and yet each episode fulfilled the need of the story telling so well, painted the characters ever more clearly in our understanding, and touched my heart. Most importantly touched my heart... not just the six main characters, but even the lesser story arcs had meaning, humor and emotion.

And so Ep 31 and 32 blew me away... and I know this drama is so much more than the romance, so much more than LBW... but I really love how the writers have shaped LBW. It's so easy to tell the story of the birth of a power hungry royal, who killed all those who may threaten him in his path to the throne.. it would have been straight forward, and it would have been easy to reenact and we all would have hated LBW from the get go. But the writers wrote a LBW who was not cut from such a simple cloth... this LBW, yes he hungered even coveted power, but what drove him was not selfish greed... what drove him was first of all a pure love for a peasant woman he could never make his own, and from there grew a love for the common people, the common citizens who had suffered so much through the many years of war, famine, hardships etc. I do believe that through loving BY, BW learned to love the common citizens for whom BY represented, and through BY he saw and understood the need for a new nation. LBW's hunger for power had matured, into a strong sense of purpose motivated by the sense of justice he had grown up believing, and fueled by his genuine love for his fellow citizens and wanting to give them a better world. He had good intentions... but then, there is a famous saying "The road to hell is paved by good intentions." So perhaps, this is LBW's undoing... but I look forward to how the writers will present the unravelling of LBW and the birth of King Taejong. TWDR presented to us the ruthless King that his son Sejong feared. It was easy to hate Taejong from the way he treated his son in TWDR, but SFD has made me realise that things are not necessarily so straightforward. I am looking at the historical King Taejong with different eyes now, and am beginning to understand why the Korean people hold him in high regard. 

Previously I regarded LBW and BY's confession scenes as one of the most unromantic romantic scenes of all Kdramas I've seen. I do still list it as among my most favorite. But now the snow scene, obviously has surpassed even that scene in my book. I loved it so much, and felt for them so much. Especially when BW asked BY to say his name, and she did. And he looked down, and smiled and said quietly 'I like it.' He will never hear it again, even though he liked it so much when she called him by name... but they both knew that somewhere deep within, he would hear her always, calling him 'Bang Won-ah..." Even in the future when she speaks to him formally, or even perhaps in the years when he becomes King... he will still hear her in his heart calling him, 'Bang Won-ah, Lee Bang Won." Such a simple gesture, which meant so much to both of them. Something that they will keep in their hearts always. He told her in his confession that he will love her till the day he dies. These words are for her to keep and remember in her heart, as the coming days will see more changes and he will seem to be further and further away from her. But the things that have been said and confessed, and him working single mindedly to achieve her dream of a new nation, and finding her mother for her... because of this BY will always know that BW meant every word he said to her those years ago. And that his feelings for her are still intact, buried safely in his heart.

And Yoo Ah In.. I'm going to miss him so much when he goes for his MS. He is just so good. In Ep 32, he was excellent. And yes, that final scene with JDJ... wow. Another amazing scene based on a true event in history. Love how the writers incorporate fact with a huge dose of dramatic creativity. And @homura, love the similarities you pointed out with Queen Seondeok. I thought it was brilliant that the writers incorporated a continuity from QS to SFD in the form of Nameless. And thank you for the video... such a sad sad scene when Bidam died. Sigh.

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On 1/9/2016 at 6:36 PM, nevill said:

Nevill sorry about this, as before, I don't know how to get rid of this. Can't seem to delete it.

What I really wanted to say was @homura, your post was brilliant. Thank you! So much extensive research, and it gave us a lot of information and background story. Poor King Gongmin - what a tumultuous period of history it was when he reigned. I do wonder what could have become of Goryeo had the Princess Noguk lived - it would have been an entirely different Goryeo I would imagine. After all King Gongmin was quite an able king until her death drove him mad, and he no longer had any interest in governing the country. What a tragedy.

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7 hours ago, nevill said:

hi dragon and welcome

i actually think that the show will show BW although ruthless and a tyrant still a good king 

there was that sentence at the beginning "justice without power" and i think the writers go that way

i also m more of a JDJ but it sometimes cross over

On 1/1/2016 at 3:20 PM, homura said:

 

@homura I'm so sorry your name got tagged in this post - for some strange reason my old post in which I quoted you still showed up in my reply slot and I just can't seem to delete it. Darn this new format - still feel like a fish out of water trying to navigate through the many potholes in this new site.

@nevill, I too think that it is the writers' intention to show us another angle in the LBW/King Taejong conundrum. After all he was well loved by the common people, and yes, he did wage war against his own family members who may threaten his and his son's succession to the throne. It is interesting to see how the writers have painted BW - and we do see the marks of a great leader, and someone who truly cares for his people, but who can be ruthless and decisive when he needs to be. 

I'm looking forward to BW's further growth in this drama for sure, and YAI is just killing it playing him.

BTW why did Song Hye Kyo send YAI a coffee truck? I wasn't aware that they are good friends. Did they work together before?

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1 hour ago, homura said:

 

I guess Byun Yo Han has a stage fright.  He had to be on tvN's variety program in 2014 because of the huge popularity of Misaeng (2014, tvN), and I saw him sing a song on the stage with trepidation. Yesterday's awards show was a live broadcast. It would be a huge burden to him.

Ohhh that's the reason? Then kudos to our baby dragon YKS for doing so well and confidently. Hope BYH eventually overcomes his stage fright though, because he's such a good singer, it would be a shame to never be able to watch him sing live. Also, I thought the pansori singer looked quite nervous herself, and had to look at YKS repeatedly to steady her voice. 

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Happy new year Dragons!! Wow, it's 2016. Hope it will be a successful, prosperous and happy year for all of us - and that SFD will keep flying high and becoming better and better and better (although I can't imagine how much better they can get, they are already soooo good!).

As always thank you @homura for the background history of Ep 25 & 26. I thought it's clever of the writers to create such a mind blowing incident ie the blood bath at Dohwajeon, and explain why it isn't recorded in history - because the incident was hushed up as YSG didn't want the people to know about the bitter enmity between him and JMS. Thus JMS was charged due to his involvement in illegal stealing of people's lands rather than his attempt on YSG's life. Who knows maybe there was some truth in it.. hehe.. it is after all the beauty of history. There are so many empty spots that we will never know about, and creative geniuses can always come up with all kinds of plot points to explain circumstances in history. And of course only God knows whether we hit the truth or not. 

I'm also a little disappointed that they didn't get Byun Yo Han to sing Muyiyiya - I have his version almost on repeat everytime I have to do work on my PC. It's such a wonderful moving song, even more so when I understood the lyrics. Still YGS did a fair job, and nicely complemented the pansori singer, so I can't complain.

HUGS EVERYBODY. Let's have a good year, eh!

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36 minutes ago, minsunie said:

this episode was out.of.this.world. 

and it ended in the best possible ,anner, the emotional high and tension is just crazy. what did i just watch?!! so good it's mad.

You couldn't have said it better. I'm still breathless and emotional. Tears still well up when I think about that ending scene. 

I think I'm going mad.

Will retreat into my cave to savor this episode, and will be back when I am more coherent.

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@nevill on the OOT... it's incredible... go watch!! That's all I will say.  I can't be sure of the resemblance of SFD to SW music, but its impact, at least for me personally is similar. Although of course SW is far and away on a much larger scale, but the SFD soundtrack especially Muyiyiya in all it's different versions is truly memorable, and very very moving.

@homura glad to hear that GSM will reappear, and seconding @liddi, would love to know more about the intriguing Ha Ryun. And am looking forward to all the many coming hidden characters as well. 

 

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@nevill, it would be lovely to see LM and BY work together going forward, although perhaps it may be a little difficult to imagine realistically. Even without loving him, LM did have a huge brood of kids with BW... and no matter how strong BY is, she is still, in essence a woman. Surely there would be jealousy. We'll see how the writers interpret their relationship as the story moves along, and I guess a lot will depend on how BW handles this very delicate situation. 

@liddi, as always you say it so much better than me. Lovely brief recap of Ep 21-22. I personally thought of William Wallace in Braveheart when he was rousing his countrymen to battle, when YSG gave his rousing speech. And Aragorn in the final battle. All great stories I think, get inspiration from what came before, so its not too surprising. And that scene was wonderful and emotional in itself, so kudos to all the movies that inspired it. The sounding of the horns... I think @homura did mention that this was a true event from history, so perhaps Tolkien got inspired by real life world history?  And I think another part that makes this drama great is the music - the soundtrack is just so amazing. I love all the different versions of Muyiya - its so brilliant that the music editing took a recurring theme first started by JDJ, and now its almost like an anthem. And of course the various theme songs are so good especially BJ and YH's song.

I just came back from watching Star Wars, and the soundtrack has always been such a big part of those great movies. And that made me think of SFD. Hehe.  

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@homura, thank you for such a detailed answer to my question on YSG some pages back! Wow... I am more and more impressed by YSG from what you wrote. Knowing that he was a man of integrity who genuinely held General CY in such high regard, it must have been a very hard decision for YSG to arrest and subsequently execute him. Interestingly, I read this from wikipedia:   Before the execution, Choe was famously known to have predicted that due to his unjust demise grass would never grow on his grave. Interestingly, grass never did grow on his grave until 1976 and it was known as jeokbun (적분), which means red grave, because of the red soil.

It's no wonder that General CY was widely revered, and even the common people mourned his death. I wonder whether the drama will actually show this scene, or was Ep 22 the end of General CY? 

Episode 21 and 22 for me were great. Especially Ep 22. Because I'm such a sucker for romance, I really loved all the nuanced scenes between BW and BY, and YH and BJ. BW and BY are particularly sweet and touched me greatly. It seems that everything they do, is either motivated by the promise of the new country that they both dream of, or it is out of consideration, concern and thought for the other. BY saved his family because as she said, they are his family. When JR complimented BW on his role in ensuring an almost bloodless coup, BW sang BY's praises instead. Theirs is a romance so rooted in feeling, so deep in emotion even if they have barely touched each other. And I wouldn't want it otherwise. Even though sometimes I physically ache for both of them, I find the treatment of their relationship tasteful and thoughtfully written, what with BW already married to the formidable Lady Min. I also loved LM and BY's interactions. It's clear that LM at this point bears her no ill will, and in fact seems to appreciate and respect BY's intelligence and abilities. I don't expect it, but it would be lovely if they actually became good friends despite their circumstances tying them to the same man.

I was also excited with the introduction of the new character Ha Ryun. There is barely anything on him in the English wikipedia so I greatly greatly appreciate the interesting information on HR, @homura! So he will eventually put BW on the throne... so intriguing. Could he also be the person behind that mysterious symbol that BY and BJ were looking for as kids as a clue to where their mother is?

Am also hoping for the reappearance of GSM and more revelation about the mystery regarding that secret nameless organisation and also BY and BJ's mother. I hope the story will still go back to that... even though I have a feeling that we will be moving forward with the story of Joseon's birth in the next episodes. Anyway whatever it is, the writing and acting continues to blow me away, so I'll be happy and not complain whatever the writers dish out next. 

And is it my imagination or YAI is getting more handsome with every episode?  

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14 hours ago, homura said:

 

It's like waiting for the moment when Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader, isn't it? (I just reserved my ticket for Star Wars 7, ) I guess the decisive moment will come with...

  Reveal hidden contents

...the murder of Jung Mong-Joo. He seems to be an incapable Sadaebu scholar in SFD right now, but he will become the most fearsome enemy of the Joseon revolutionists because he knows Jung Do-Jeon inside out. Yi Seong-Gye's party will be in big trouble because of Jung Mong-Joo's scary political attacks. Kill or be killed. When the tension is rapidly reaching flashpoint, Yi Bang-Won will make an appearance out of nowhere, and end the fight so easily by assassinating Jung Mong-Joo. Unfortunately, despite of being their political enemy, Jung Mong-Joo was his teacher's longtime friend, his father's old colleague, and all Confucian scholars' spiritual teacher. Bang-Won dirties his own hands to save his father and his teacher, but they will turn their back on him even if they know Bang-Won's intention. That will slowly make him turn into a devil, I guess.

 

This is really true... although just like Anakin, we already see traces of the dark side in him since he was 14 years old! (And I reserved my Star Wars tix a month ago... and now counting the days!!  )

I have a question regarding YSG and his Wihwa Retreat... you said that most historians believe that the retreat was accidental and unplanned right? So do the historians also believe that YSG's subsequent coup was also unplanned and was a direct result his disagreement regarding the Liaodong invasion and its failure? So the general understanding was that YSG never had any previous plan to take over the government like what SFD is suggesting? I'm still wondering about YSG's true character - was he the true good man depicted in SFD that perhaps inadvertently found himself in revolution due to circumstances, or was he an ambitious man who had designs on the throne from long ago? Perhaps fueled by the incompetence of the weak King and the corrupt Dodang, but did he actually nurse that ambition? I'm still wondering. 

 

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@homura, thank you for the repost! Love it absolutely, such an awesome song. I had it on repeat while I got some work done today. So cute that it's being called 'Yuknyong-serables'. Loved Les Miserables too.

(oh and incidentally, funny that you mentioned Amadeus, because that's also a favorite movie of mine.  )

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On 12/5/2015, 3:55:01, homura said:

 

Frankly speaking, in my eyes, SFD is a bloody love-hate bromance between Yi Bang-Won and Jung Do-Jeon. (LOL)

Even when Yi Bang-Won didn't know who the owner of the cave was, he said  "I want to see him. I want to be like him, and I want to know him." (ep. 5) Being harshly scolded and expelled by Jung Do-Jeon when they first met in the cave, Bang-Won was discouraged at first but said to himself "He's awesome. So awesome. Teacher Sambong, take good care of my room in the cave. I'll definitely be back." (ep 10)  After hearing the balance and check system Jung Do-Jeon is creating in his mind, Bang-Won thinks "I want to have them. All of them" "Really, he is a genius I cannot mimic."

At first it was admiration and yearning. Now it slowly changes into envy and Jealousy. It can be inferiority complex, possessiveness, obsession in the future. After founding Joseon, he may feel betrayal, being abandoned, and being ignored.  

I'm curious about how SFD writers will describe the reasons of their conflicts, and when the worm inside Bang-Won will finally start whispering to him. My guess is that Yi Bang-Won will get fed up with his longtime one-sided crush on Jung Do-Jeon in the future. In proportion to his unrequited love for Sambong, his hatred will be growing worse. It reminds me of the relationships between Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Antonio Salieri in the movie Amadeus (1984).

 

 

This is a profound and telling analysis of the story so far. This drama consists of a series of bromances, it's true, and the ultimate bromance would be that of YBW and JDJ. I am fascinated and intrigued at what is to follow - how this relationship goes to hell eventually. Thank God it's Monday tomorrow.

Also I realised that you have already posted the lyrics for Muyiyiya on your tumblr.  Is this the same lyrics that BYH sings in the official OST? It is very very profound and hard hitting. If you don't mind I'd just like to post the translations here, I love it so much. Please let me know if it's OK to post it.

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7 hours ago, homura said:

 

Japanese pirates invaded Yanggwang province where Boon-Yi and Tang-Sae siblings are living. The Dodang (central government) needs to send troops to protect people. However, at that time, most of the Goryeo troops consists of private armies possessed by nobles, and no noble man wants to give his private armies for free. But The state coffers are empty. The government has no major land to give out as compensation. There was no solution.

@homura, this fact you pointed out is very interesting. Because, look at what King Taejong did at the beginning of his reign:

One of his first acts as king was to abolish the privilege enjoyed by the upper echelons of government and the aristocracy to maintain private armies. His revoking of such rights to field independent forces effectively severed their ability to muster large-scale revolts, and drastically increased the number of men employed in the national military.  Credit to Wikipedia

He must have been very unpopular with the nobles and aristocrats for taking away so many of their priviledges and source of wealth. It's an interesting point to ponder. 

Also thank you for your 'A Worm In The Heart' compilation. I loved it... more reason to believe that @liddi's theory is probably the way the writers will go. Interesting, what JDJ said about the worm in episode 10. He called BW a mobster then - the one who rides the turbulent period in order to survive. 

I was also intrigued by what Taejong said to his son Yi Do about Jung Do-Jeon in TWDR. He had such high regard for the person he called his Teacher, and in fact despite claiming that JDJ did nothing, wiki tells us that he kept most of JDJ's reforms intact during his reign. If that isn't proof that Taejong held JDJ in high regard, I don't know what is. Yet he refused to admit it, and in fact did the opposite. He vilified JDJ but honored Poeun whom he himself killed. It's almost as if Taejong was acting spitefully against JDJ, although what was the point of that since JDJ was already dead. I am curious as to what caused this extreme falling out between Teacher and Student. I'm sure the writers will give us an interesting explanation of this.

 

[[Drama 2015-2016] Six Flying Dragons 육룡이 나르샤]

7 hours ago, liddi said:

@azzurri Love your thoughts, especially about the relationship between YBW and BY... thank you for sharing them! And I agree. I believe BY is the one who understands him.. the only one he can be truly vulnerable and honest with... stripped bare of all pretenses and bravado. Actually, contrary to what I think you thought I was saying, I never meant that his losing her was because she left or spurned him for what he became in his power struggle.. at least voluntarily. Rather, my feeling... reinforced by having seen the outcome of TWDR... the scriptwriters' total lack of compunction in killing off well-loved characters... is that niggling fear that she will die perhaps for or because of him. Going forward, allies would turn into enemies... and with YBJ being firmly in JDJ's camp... BY will most certainly be torn between the two men she loves, as well as the well-drawn line of alliances. Would this result in a conflict that ends in her death? I hope not... but I do not hold much hope that something of that nature will not play out. And with her passing, YBW loses the one person who could rein him back... his moral compass if you will, in particular against those whom he see as a threat to all that he has fought and sacrificed for. 

@liddi dearest, I think our differences of opinion in this is just a hair's breadth. Hehe. Perhaps it just comes down to my inability to find the right words to describe what I was thinking.   I think I did understand you the first time, that the loss of BY through death would be BW's final undoing, the beginning of his downward spiral succumbing to the evil whisperings of the bug in his heart. That indeed, is the more likely story that will unfold, what with the writers already throwing us hints and foreshadowing through HIB's uncanny predictions. This is what you meant by this:  And with her passing, YBW loses the one person who could rein him back... his moral compass if you will, in particular against those whom he see as a threat to all that he has fought and sacrificed for.

But my one tiny hope is a twist to this. That perhaps BY did not die, and BW never did lose his moral compass. Perhaps there were justifiable reasons for what he did, and the people he killed. To protect himself, his son and the rightful succession from the power hungry yet corrupt relatives that were just waiting to stab him in the back. Perhaps he was haunted by guilt throughout his life, but felt it was a deed that needed doing. And throughout, only BY understood and stood by him, because she always knew him for what he really was and not what people made him out to be. We have an image of a power hungry tyrant, but perhaps he was nothing more than a man who felt he needed to protect his family and country but was racked by guilt by what he had done. And because no one understood his motivations, the people close to him would distance themselves from him - including the Queen (he did kill all her brothers), his son Yi Do and perhaps even MH. As what we saw in TWDR. This thought occurred to me because of the good things I read of him - that he did so much for the common people. It seemed contradictory to me that he could be so cruel to those close to him, yet shower so much kindness on the general masses. Was he a good king or a tyrant? He certainly couldn't be both - he had to be one or the other. The common people obviously loved and revered him, but the nobles feared him. So I reasoned that perhaps he remained the idealistic, intelligent and action-oriented person he was till the end of his life, but he was just misunderstood and misjudged by those around him. And so he must have lived a sad isolated life in the end.  

It's just my wishful thinking, and perhaps a different way for us to look at King Taejong.

6 hours ago, nevill said:

i think BW is a true romantic he is motivated by BY and at first  - to me - it seems that his search for power is for him to give her the world she craves.

he wants to gift her the world  - and that to me is a very unselfish romantic gesture - that maybe later will turn into the man we know 

at first i thought it was power more than BY - but the more the episode i watch the more a romantic he becomes to me 

@nevill, I absolutely LOVED what you said here, and I think you've got an interesting idea here. It would be a different, and a more romantic take on the motivations of King Taejong, and would certainly make good story telling. He had good intentions but made mistakes in carrying out his plans that cost the lives of so many people. All for the love of a woman. And certainly such a thing has occurred in history before.

@zenya22, you may be right too. So many possibilities in this amazing story - which is why this drama is so good! Anyway... the mystery behind what happened to the mother of DS and BY has yet to be revealed. And with the return of GSM, perhaps some light will be shed on this soon. 

@liddi I too love the instrumental OST. The music of SFD is just so amazing and appropriate. I'm also still blown away by BYH's singing ability. He has so much pathos in his voice, that even though I don't understand the song Muyiyiya, I'm bleeding with every line that he sings. So much emotion packed into each word he sings... I'm moved beyond words. Hopefully there will be an English translation to the song sometime soon, to make it even more impactful.

[[Drama 2015-2016] Six Flying Dragons 육룡이 나르샤]

First off... so much happened in these two episodes, I'm still dumbfounded. So thank you @liddi for saying almost everything I wanted to say, and with more eloquence than I could ever muster, as well. And wow @homura, your background historical explanation for Ep 17-18 as usual just blew me away. The history is truly interesting, and the writers are really clever to create such a story out of that known history. As with all of the world's histories, there are always the blind spots - details we will never know for sure, and this allows for artistic licenses and interpretations that, with the right people and most creative minds, would create a mind blowing story. As the SFD writers have done so far. Every week I feel like I'm transported on a journey through time and space to another time, another age, another existence. I am truly enjoying this magic carpet ride to witness the birth of this new Joseon nation. 

As so many have voiced on this thread, I too am saddened by the end of GTM and HIB, two worthy adversaries. Yet that amazing dancelike swordfight between two equally skilled opponents was magnificent, and it was a just and apt ending for a great swordsman like GTM. As his brother eulogised, at least he died as a warrior and not a corrupt official. And the acting by the two actors was truly moving - I've watched the sequence 4 times, twice without subs and I was moved everytime. Even as the people shouted out with joy, the almost-regret and sadness etched on LBJ's face was telling. GTM earned his respect as a great swordsman, and even at the end, he died admirably. It was a moment to ponder for LBJ, and even though he told MH otherwise later, I do think that he never did learn to feel pleasure from killing. Especially one as skilful as GTM. Even as he seemed to proudly claim the title of the Greatest Swordsman of SamHan. I also felt a certain sadness witnessing the end of HIB, staring into the distance with that tinge of regret in his eyes. He had two wonderful confrontational scenes with LBW and JDJ with such meaningful dialogue and an almost acute foretelling of future events.

Which brings me to LBW and BY:

15 hours ago, liddi said:

By the same token, YBW's last words with HIB, while perhaps not as spectacular or flashy, are no less potent. YBW's cocky surety of being a better man than HIB, is experiencing stirrings of self-doubt, when the older man's foreboding words finally hit home. And the moment he sees the world JDJ envisions and recognises the sibilant voice within - that of ambitious hunger to own that country - is a foreshadowing of what is to come, his dread of being swallowed up and losing himself to the darkness is real. His conversation with BY is telling... when he asks that she stops him if he ever does change... again, we see just how reliant he is on BY to keep him from giving in to his darker self. From here, his spiral downwards in terms of humanity in later years can only mean one thing... that somewhere along the way, he lost her. 

 

On the one hand I agree with your analysis here, @liddi. This is the obvious direction that the writers would be leading us to. This is what we would expect, from the history that we have read. It's what I would put my money on as to where the writers are going. But on the other hand, I do have this other thought, or rather, a tiny hope. Its borne from the fact that the writers have proven that they think out of the box, and quite frequently pull that elusive rabbit out of their hat. It is also borne from the bits and pieces of information that I have read of King Taejong online. On the one hand he apparently is power hungry, as he got rid of anyone who could challenge him for the throne. But he was also well loved by the people - as you mentioned liddi, he did introduce a channel for the people to direct their problems to the king, and from wiki we read of the many changes he made to governance that benefited the people and improved their lives, and strengthened national defence and increased the nation's wealth. He seems like such a contradiction in terms, that it fascinates me. It would be interesting if the writers could put in a new twist. Instead of us seeing him as the good person that succumbed to the overpowering hunger for power - because that would be so straightforward and a given, how more mind blowing it would be for us to understand the reasons behind his act of killing his two brothers, his brothers-in-law and his son's in-laws as well. Could it be that they all had designs on the throne, and on his life for their own power hungry reasons?- and we know how much politicking, plotting and backstabbing can go on behind close doors amongst the kin of the royal families (see Lee In Gyeom for example), that Taejong had strong reasons to show emphatically that no one could step on him? Also, the story goes that his brother Lee Bang Gwa or King Jeongjong made him heir out of fear(?), but could it be that his brother honestly felt that LBW was the best candidate amongst his brothers to become the king? Anyway those are just my thoughts... and perhaps a little tiny hope... that perhaps instead of losing BY, she is the only one who will understand him until the end? After all even Sejong and MH seemed to despise him (based from TWDR)... so really he just ends up as the one misunderstood by all those close to him. 

So that romantic part of me is kind of also hoping, in that way, it is really BY who stays loyal to him till the end. And of course the fangirl part of me just thinks that YAI is playing LBW so splendidly that I don't want him to end up the villain.

 

 

[[Drama 2015-2016] Six Flying Dragons 육룡이 나르샤]

@homura, thank you for your summary of episode 18, and all the background history lessons before. I'm looking forward to your next one!

I haven't watched Ep 18 - I'm about to watch the fight scene between GTM and LBJ, and will wait for the subs for the rest. Can't quite wait to watch the jealous LM coming across BW and BY's little tete a tete though. Hehe. 

Anyway.. I'm sorry we've lost GTM, but at least we have GSM back in the picture. Hopefully we'll find out more about BY and DS's mom as homura mentioned. The only thing I remember from the early episodes was that she was Princess Noguk's lady in waiting, and was somehow responsible for the princess's death. From history, we know that Princess Noguk dies in childbirth, so I'm really curious as to what role BY and DS's mother plays. 

Next up: the fight with General Choi Young is also another story arc I'm looking forward to since he is one of my favorite historical characters (thanks to Faith hehe). Even though LSG will eventually execute him, to this day General CY is considered a national hero and patriot - is that right @homura? 

@whiteangel25 - thank you for translating the scenes between BW and MH! Love their bromance!

[[Drama 2015-2016] Six Flying Dragons 육룡이 나르샤]

Wow congratulations to Yoo Ah In... truly well deserved. Have yet to watch the Throne, but the little I've seen, I have no doubt at all that his acting was amazing.

So our Dragon had a big win at the Blue Dragon... hehe... how ironic. Looked absolutely dapper in his velvet tux too!

I used to say YAI will always be Gulro to me... and my love for Gulro has not diminished in the least, but he's YBW too now. Absolutely and irrevocably the one and only YBW. And I haven't watched him as Sado yet.