dojoed
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Posts posted by dojoed
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It actually makes me pretty pleased that the drama has conflated some things and expanded on others from the webtoon! For one I’m really happy that Ji-ah and Gwi-nam get more
backstory to their characters, since that wasn’t very present in the webtoon.
I also have a whole plot spoiler thing written up so if anybody is interested tell me! Haha
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9 minutes ago, staygold said:
This is more positive for me because here I am getting what you are trying to tell us. Core ideals of all religions are based on the similar human ideas of the divine. This may get lost when we use different verses/languages.
I don't feel anyone is trying to misconstrue East Asian culture. You need to post more of this so that we see what you are seeing.
I've said this before I think, but my most major beef here is using a completely different cultural perspective to override everything that Kim Eun-sook has been portraying in her show. It's her show, it's her mythology--let's not rob her of her agency here. It's not discussion I want to stifle (or even bother stifling, this isn't my rodeo): I merely wish to call out speculation using content so far out of the context Kim Eun-sook has provided that it's completely irrelevant to the show's core.
As for Mencius and his other cool Confucian Compatriots, Googling them would be relatively useful. They said a lot of stuff that you would perhaps find familiar, since they're things that Kim Eun-sook has incorporated into her show.
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17 minutes ago, jigah said:
For example, in the scene where KS slept at GR's room, there's definitely a reference to Christianity there since KS said that God must be thinking highly of him since He gives him a very difficult trial (there's a verse in the Bible which said that God will not give trial more than you can bear so that scene alone should be familiar to church goers and there's quite a bit of them in South Korea it seems like)
There is a saying by Mencius that goes like this:
天降大任於斯人也 必先苦其心志 勞其筋骨 餓其體膚 空乏其身行 行弗亂其所為 所以動心忍性 曾益無所不能
It literally means this: "When the heavens grant you an important duty, they will first put you through anguish of the mind, labour of the body, and hunger of the physical. They will confuse you, they will put you through tribulations, but all of these will serve to alert the mind. They will mould you into a stronger person and craft your talent".
Trials and tribulations are not concepts unique to Christianity.
Nobody is bashing anyone. If anything it's just the calling out of actions that don't serve to benefit the community or anybody.
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21 minutes ago, MadraRua said:
I do agree with you. Discussion is what makes watching fun, and I enjoy it myself. But what I also believe in is analysing within the context of the story itself, the one that the writer intended it to be in. I think it is obvious by now where Kim Eun-sook is drawing her inspiration from, so it shouldn't be that difficult to look those up.
To me it feels a lot like this: someone keeps saying that New York is in Korea. You know it's not but the person can't be otherwise convinced, saying that they're concluding this because there's a Shake Shack there and only New York has Shake Shacks. But the local burger chain in Korea is actually Lotteria and yet the person just stays grounded in whatever they're saying.
Whatever it is, I'm not here for a quibble. It just makes me sad sometimes to see East Asian culture so misconstrued, even though the Hallyu is doing a good job of marketing one branch of it around the world.
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There really isn't a need to roll your eyes at people who merely point out the truth. What is Kim Eun-sook's mythology based on? Her native Korean folklore and culture. What has influenced the culture of Korea? The religions and ideologies of Buddhism and Confucianism. Do you see dokkaebi and grim reapers and reincarnation in Christianity? Not really.
True, Kim Shin lived through that 900 years and experienced many things, but would it have changed the foundation of who he is? No. He remembered and blamed that one god who granted him immortality and never forgot who he was: Kim Shin, general of Goryeo, subject of Wang Yeo.
I can't take claims of being "hard hitting" and "different thinking" seriously when all the signs are placed there by the writer of the show and still dutifully ignored. That's being a bad reader, not different.
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I do think there is a difference between having a different opinion and being willfully impervious to whatever the creator of this story wants to tell.
The reaper committee duo said explicitly that Yeo would gain the memories of his previous life back. He remembered every single thing he did as Wang Yeo, regent of Goryeo. To insist that he is the queen would be to negate Kim Eun-sook's agency over the world and characters that she has created and replace it with yours. Weird, when none of us helped to originate it in the first place.
Why is killing yourself the biggest sin? Goryeo was not a Christian country, and Christian values very rarely are able to explain the way other cultures and/or religions think. Goryeo was Buddhist (in religion) and Confucian (in bureaucracy). Both espoused the importance of life in similar ways--Buddhism regarded all life as sacred and equal to each other. Taking a life without good reason or regard for it would be to accumulate the worst sort of karma. Confucianism, on the other hand, regarded filial piety as the most important value--one's parents gave them life, so to take it away would be gravely unfilial. To leave the world before one's parents is the apex of unfilialness and hence the greatest sin. Even if Yeo's parents had died before him, they had died for him. To give up that life so many people sacrificed themselves for would be sin of equal magnitude. Sure, the Christian values this thread seems to like using as a basis for analysis may appear fitting, but when this period that Goblin is set in was way before the dawn of Christianity in Korea, it seems more like reaching than anything else.
I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I also believe that it needs to be steeped in logic and truth.
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23 minutes ago, napkiin said:
Sigh.
I'm not sure if we're watching the same drama, but it is shown from previous episodes that when a Grim Reaper touches someone, they see a person's past. They never mentioned anything about touching an object to see a person's past. Not to mention Sunny got her past life memories back when Grim Reaper kissed her, and she was ringless, Grim Reaper didn't see any memories at all, it was just Sunny. Grim Reaper didn't even know what Sunny saw, he had to ask her. Towards the end, in the epilogue/preview, Wang Yeo burns robes for Sun to wear in the afterlife. So in your opinion, if that was NOT Grim Reaper's, who would that be? Who would have the memory of him burning the robes? More importantly, that last sequence in which he walks as a king and it segues into him walking as a grim reaper... if that's not the show's way of confirming that he is the king, then I don't know what else to say.
I'm really curious, why are you so set on Grim Reaper is the queen? In this episode the first 2 minutes or so, a text popped out on the bottom saying Grim Reaper is Wang Yeo.
This would be the chyron you're talking about, I presume?
"Goblin has discovered the truth that Sunny was his sister in her previous life, and that Grim Reaper was 'Wang Yeo' in his..."
So pretty much this derails everything that can be said about Sunny being the King and Grims being the Queen, unless the production team wants to lie on national television and incur the wrath of all the Korean netizens. If there really was a twist in store, there would be no need to put this chyron on screen now and shoot themselves in the foot later.
Tagging the both of you so you two can see this post: @napkiin @packmule3
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1 hour ago, selenette said:THE CHARACTERS AND THEIR HANJA NAME MEANINGS
"Your real name is Kim Sun? Which Hanja characters do you use?"
-Kim Shin, to Sunny [Ep 9]
Listing what we've already known, and surmising what we don't know, because it is the Hanja, rather than the Hangul, that determines a name meaning.
The following three are the established names.
KIM SHIN
The conversation between Chairman Yoo and Secretary Kim (Ep 9) helped establishing the Hanja characters for Kim Shin's name. The Chairman said the name essentially means "to believe", but the Hanja themselves will give us deeper insight.
- 金 (kim) = gold; iron (Note: generally it refers to any precious metal of the ancient Chinese era)
- 信 (shin) = to believe, belief, trust, to profess faith in (Note: the character consists of two characters, 人("man") and 言("speech") = a person's truthful words. The character implies that a man with this name is one who stays true to his promises)
---> TO STRONGLY BELIEVE; A STAUNCH BELIEF; STEADFASTNESS
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WANG YEO
As this was a name Kim Shin wrote down (Ep 8), there would be no mistaking the Hanja. Yet the "dawn" meaning is a new discovery for me.
- 王 (wang) = king (Note: the three horizontal strokes are Heaven, Man and Earth. The vertical stroke is the king. A king, therefore, has to connect Heaven, Man, and Earth. This implies that a king's failure in maintaining this sacred connection/carrying out the mandate to rule justly, will result in Heavenly punishment)
- 黎 (yeo) = dark; black; dawn; many people; commoners
--> THE DARK KING, THE BLACK KING, THE KING OF MANY PEOPLE , THE KING [WHO CAME AT?] DAWN
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KIM SUN
Written side by side with Wang Yeo's name on Ep 8, this name's Hanja characters were clarified as well.
- 金 (kim)= gold; iron
- 善 (sun) = virtuous; good; kind; charitable;kindness (Note: the character is formed by two other characters, 誩 ("say a lot") and 羊 ("goat" [= sacrifice, soft speech], implying that the person always speaks in kindness and is selfless/self-sacrificing)
--> GOLDEN VIRTUE; GOLDEN KINDNESS; TRUE/GOLDEN SELFLESSNESS
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Now onto the surmises, based on my lowkey research on the Hanja database.
YOO DEOK HWA
Surmising that his given and surname are that of Andy Lau (Ep 5)'s, as well as the "Yoo" in Gong Yoo's name, here is what I believe are the Hanja characters in Deok-hwa's name.
- 劉 (yoo) = old Chinese surname "Liu"; to kill; to conquer
- 德 (deok) = morality; ethics; virtue
- 華 (hwa) = illustrious; magnificent; flowery; to flourish; to prosper (Note: the character consists of elements 艹 ( "grass") + 匚 ("basket", "sieve"), which referred to a container for herbs, plants, leaves for traditional medicines. In ancient times, one travels to the countryside. Naming a person in this character implies a hope for a distant yet encompassing journey.)
---> TO CONQUER [BY] ILLUSTRIOUS VIRTUE; TO CONQUER [BY] MAGNIFICENT MORALITY; TO [EMBARK ON A] JOURNEY ON [THE PATH OF/TO] VIRTUE
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JI EUN TAK
There are two Hanjas for the Ji surname, 26 Hanjas for the Eun given name (2 of them being the commonly used ones), and one for the Tak surname (not given name). So I had to search through the database, to find those that make more sense.
- 池 (ji) = pool; pond; a surname
Or
- 智 (ji) = wisdom; intellect (Note: originally means "what is to know", implying that a person with this name seeks knowledge). I'm leaning more towards this one because of Eun-tak's intelligence.
- 恩 (eun) =favor; grace; love; kindness (Note: the character is formed from the character 心 ("heart") and phonetic 因 ("to follow", "cause"), implying that the person is kind-hearted)
Or
- 銀 (eun) = silver. I'm leaning more towards the first one.
- 卓 (tak) =outstanding
Or
- 倬 (tak) = bright; beautiful
Both Hanjas could work, but the first one is more commonly used (albeit as a surname)
---> WISDOM AND BEAUTIFUL GRACE; WISDOM AND OUTSTANDING KINDNESS; WISE, BEAUTIFUL AND GRACEFUL; WISE, KIND, AND BRIGHT/BEAUTIFUL
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Notes on the Names (only click if you're interested)
1. It makes me sad that Kim Shin's name really signifies his loyalty to both his sister and his king, the two people he failed to protect.
2. The realization that there is an element of sacrifice within Kim Sun's name makes me sad, too.
3. Wang Yeo's given name wasn't chosen out of spite (a name that means dark). His family loved him, after all. He was named "dawn" because his parents hoped that he would bring heir country out of the dark.
4. When Shin named Deok-hwa, he didn't do it to embarrass the boy, or to compare the child with Andy Lau for the rest of their lives. He truly cared for the boy and hoped for the latter's well-being.
5. Eun-tak was really cherished and loved by her late mother. Another sad moment of realization for me. Please stay alive, you wise, kind and beautiful girl...
Sources
https://chinese.yabla.com/chinese-english-pinyin-dictionary.php
http://www.chinese-tools.com/tools/calligraphy.html
http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=恩
http://dictionary.pinpinchinese.com/definitions/
http://www.koreanwikiproject.com/wiki/
http://www.hanja.me/explore.html
http://www.chinesetools.eu/chinese-dictionary/index.php?q=%26%2321331%3B
m.hanja.naver.com
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Lauhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_Yoo
http://justlearnchinese.com/chinese-radical-show-basket-radical-37/
https://eastwindgallery.blogspot.co.id/2016/04/hua-lian-splendid-affection-7-nameplate.html?m=1P.S. I apologize to the kind people who tagged me, if I haven't replied to your posts, it means that my brain simply agrees with yours and I can't think of any intelligent reply. But I do read those posts and other posts,too. I'd even tried to color the names according to the latest brilliant color theory in this thread, and to Deok-hwa's status (non-human or human?), but this post was all that I could come up with.
Hi, just dropped by to say that while your post is very informative, the Hanja that you've used for Shin and Eun-tak's personal names (and her last name), as well as Deok-hwa's family name, are incorrect. The Hanja characters that Kim Eun-sook has chosen for her characters have actually been shown in the drama itself.
Shin's name in Hanja is 金侁, as seen here:
Eun-tak's name in Hanja is 池恩倬, as written by Grims himself:
And Deok-hwa's family name in Hanja is actually 柳, as seen on the family gravestones in Canada:
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[Drama 2018] What is Wrong with Secretary Kim, 김비서가 왜 그럴까
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I think I know as much as you do at this point haha! And yeah lol why did they leave out the part where she has raunchy romance novels on her desk??
Without spoiling anything I think it’s safe to say that Sung-yeon is a really sad little boy at heart. It doesn’t make what he does/did right, but he’s really pitiful. I remember feeling quite bad for him—and even worse for Young-joon!