LOST

[Guest j1youngxj3]

claire's back. YAY. so did anyone else think that sayid was "claimed?"

i sort of thought about that during last weeks premiere that maybe jacob claimed his body? but can that work because jacob's dead? while the man in black is alive when he claimed john locke

[Guest res0nate]

Yeah, I really hate Kate eps and Kate in general but I'm glad this wasn't soo Kate-centric.

Consider me mind blown.

[Guest NanaMun]

i sort of thought about that during last weeks premiere that maybe jacob claimed his body? but can that work because jacob's dead? while the man in black is alive when he claimed john locke

Don't worry, you're not the only one who thought that. It crossed my mind too.

I found this episode fantastic in character dynamics and an elaborated look into the "infected". As soon as I heard that word, I thought of the french crew. I enjoyed how they brought Claire back (to the island). If I could claim whose episode it was today, I'd say Kate. Obviously, right? So hopefully Claire's is next week? *cross fingers* It was a bit of a circle closer that BOTH of Aaron's moms are present (and I'm guessing Kate would be there for the delivery) for his birth TWICE. And in some way it seems that what Claire is fated to do is actually going to happen. She wasn't suppose to have Aaron raised "By another" (or "an other". Lost fans and their theories. ) So ultimately, Kate's plan worked. She had Aaron re-united (or just united) with his mother.

And about Jack. I never hated his character, but season 3 and on, he got extremely whiny and...well, pathetic. It's part of his character arc, so I never held it against him. It's been awhile since I've seen him do something notably noble. That whole pill scene was so unexpected, but appreciated at the same time.

And Sawyer....did anyone see CIRCA SEASON 1 Sawyer make an appearance for a moment. Especially when he was talking about Sayid? All that hurt and anger bubbling until he nearly exploded.

My poor baby, Sayid. This guy has been getting pooped on the entire series...what gives?!!

[Guest iEatPowder]

^ You folks needa learn how to do proper spoiler covers lol.

claire's back. YAY. so did anyone else think that sayid was "claimed?"

i sort of thought about that during last weeks premiere that maybe jacob claimed his body? but can that work because jacob's dead? while the man in black is alive when he claimed john locke

If indeed Sayid's body had been claimed by Jacob, it wouldn't make any sense for the Others to try and poison/kill Sayid. Aren't the Others and Jacob sort of in league with one another? But if we're adhering to your theory, the only reason I could come up to explain their assassination attempt on Sayid would be to "prepare" Sayid (or his body/image) in some way (perhaps a vessel of sorts), seeing as how the man in black took the form of people who had already died. But again... this theory is a real stretch. I'm leaning more towards a nay.

On another note, Dogen is a fascinating character. I love Jack's cynical dialogue with him.

"What's in the pill?"

"I cannot explain."

"What's that?"

"It's a baseball."

What's this?

"Tea."

[Guest iEatPowder]

from a storytelling standpoint, it's again important to note that 2007 is the Losties' present (although it's now 2010). So a hypothesis can be presented that whatever actions they take from here on out for the remainder of Season 6 will affect a future that is yet to be determined. And with that said, this presents my current theory: that this as-yet undetermined future is represented by the off-Island sequences we are now seeing unfold through this successful Oceanic 815 landing. In other words, a flashforward - but from the Losties' perspective. So, rather than it being the failed 1977 Jughead detonation, the Dharma 77ers and the Ajira survivors will somehow figure out a different solution during their 2007 time frame as to how to prevent the 2004 Oceanic 815 crash from happening.

And hence, this is to imply that where it seems that (from seasons 4-5) you could not change whatever happened from happening, you still exercise free will in the present (2007, from the Losties POV) in hopes of procuring a desired 'future' - the resulting 2004 Oceanic 815 safe landing. (I know this sounds confusing, but when viewed in the context of what the Losties perceive as their present condition and what will be their future, it makes a little bit more sense. I hope. )

I can agree with all that you've said up to this point. It gets a bit convoluted with all the dates and years and groups but having read it over a few times I think I comprehend what you're getting at. Problem is, Oceanic 815 has already crashed. It's already happened, regardless of its placement in time. In episode 5 of season 4 (when Desmond's consciousness is leaping through time), Farraday tells Desmond explicitly, that the future cannot be changed. So I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at when (according to your theory) the Losties' "desired" future is an event that has already occurred, and therefore unchangeable.

(Honestly ABC... do us all a favor and just have an 18-hour Lost marathon for the remainder of the episodes in this season. Thanks. )

I found this episode fantastic in character dynamics and an elaborated look into the "infected". As soon as I heard that word, I thought of the french crew.

Yus, I too noticed the eerie similarities between Claire and Rousseau. Both were stranded on the island during their pregnancies. Both were separated from their child. Both have gone butch-hunter mad, setting traps all over the jungle.

[Guest OhGeezeAnhthu]

Yeah, I really hate Kate eps and Kate in general but I'm glad this wasn't soo Kate-centric.

Consider me mind blown.

LOL. ME TOO. She's a jerk and can't make up her mind on who she wants to be with. SAWYER OR JACK. PICK ONE KATE.

[Guest graceyoon]

thot last night's episode was pointless since it answered hardly anything! is this seriously the end of the series cuz it hardly feels like it..

anyway, i am in totally in love with jack!! yiyiyi at least he knows he's made choices that may have not been right but at least he's trying to take responsibility for them unlike sawyer who's totally pissing me off atm

[Guest res0nate]

Kate and Jack are the worst.

[Guest HERMIT]

I can agree with all that you've said up to this point. It gets a bit convoluted with all the dates and years and groups but having read it over a few times I think I comprehend what you're getting at. Problem is, Oceanic 815 has already crashed. It's already happened, regardless of its placement in time. In episode 5 of season 4 (when Desmond's consciousness is leaping through time), Farraday tells Desmond explicitly, that the future cannot be changed. So I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at when (according to your theory) the Losties' "desired" future is an event that has already occurred, and therefore unchangeable

I'm not disputing the fact that the 2004 crash or even the 1977 Incident happened. I'm one of those that are on the "Whatever Happened, Happened" bandwagon. But I don't look at it as you cannot change your future. I look at it as you cannot change the past. This is exactly what Jack had hoped to do, with the premise that if they can change that one thing in the past, it may possibly create a butterfly effect in which the chain of events would change. But as we all have found out, that's not how it works. What happened, happened. And all that the presence of the Losties from 1974-1977 served to do was to ensure that what happened, happened.

This is not to say that you can't still affect your future. For example, I can exercise my "free will" of not brushing my teeth ever again and reasonably conclude that I'm ensuring a future of my rotted teeth falling out. The main point is that my decision to take this course of action is done in the here and now.

Which brings me to the point of the beginning of season 6: Everyone is in the here and now of January 2008. Of course, each character has followed a "time path" uniquely their own. For example, Sun experienced the most straightforward of time paths as she's progressed linearly from the Oceanic crash of September 2004 and straight through to the Ajira crash of January 2008. Jack had a time path that saw him go from September 2004 through January 2008, dip into 1977, and now back to January 2008. And lastly, Sawyer is an example of a character that went through a serpentine time path of 9/04-12/04, 2001, 2008, 2002, 1954, 2008, 1988, 1974-1977, and now into January 2008.

Regardless of time path and the varieties of years they went through, to them their time paths were simply the "present tense" to them. And as they existed along their time paths, they did what they did and whatever happened, happened.

But now, everybody is on the same page to begin this final season. It's January 2008. It is the present time. It is not the past and there is no future that neither they or we as the viewing audience know of.

Whatever course of action that they proceed with henceforth will net a result/future that we are NOT already aware of.

All my theory is basically saying is that the on-Island sequences we are about to see will describe a course of action in which the Losties try to get themselves off of the Island. As they strive to do this, I'm also hypothesizing that they will also resolve whatever the conflict is between Jacob and the Man In Black - as well as figuring out a way to "end" the Island and all that it represents once and for all.

In essence, what the on-Island sequences represents is the "means" to an end. But what is the "end"?

Surprise, surprise: the "end" is the off-Island sequences we are watching now - meaning, the viewing audience is unwittingly watching the future result of the Losties' current on-Island endeavors. Let me further elaborate:

What I am presenting here is that the end-game resolution to the on-Island sequences/conflict is the definitive termination of this time path that has wound its way now into 2008. EVERYONE's time path. Their time path as they know it.

Without trying to go too much into detail, my theory proposes that this termination of the time path into 2008 will involve some kind of catastrophic event - much like what was intended with the Jughead bomb - in which everyone will "die". But in so doing, I hypothesize that there will be some kind of time travel implications to that event: 1.) Nobody will "survive" by time traveling in the physical sense, but rather in the consciousness time travel (CTT) sense. 2.) Rather than it being people time flashing, it will be the Island itself that will time travel - but in such a manner that it will destroy/replace itself pre-2004 in the process and it is rendered useless/non-threatening (such as, being placed underwater in that pre-2004 time as foreshadowed in the premiere).

The end result of such a hypothesized catastrophic event will be the altered 2004 reality. But the twist of such an altered reality is that the time travel component from the 2008 time path termination event - the consciousness time travel - will take its effect on the LOST characters in this altered reality in varying degrees. (Through the first two episodes, we seem to be seeing Jack, Kate, and Claire displaying these "symptoms" of some sort recollection - perhaps from this hypothesized CTT). Rather than time traveling in body, they will time travel in mind and memory like Desmond did.

So, in summing up, if you step back and view my theory in the context of "time paths", I am hoping you can finally see what I mean as to how the Losties are striving towards that "desired" future:

The on-Island sequences are the "now" and the off-Island sequences are a flashforward - not some sort of an alternate timeline or completely different parallel universe that somehow is running concurrent with the on-Island sequences we are watching now. Maybe a more appropriate term to be used is altered reality. But, an altered reality that is made possible by actions produced from the current and one and only timeline that we are seeing now.

So, to go back and address your point: The first crash in 2004 - yes, it did happen. But that crash was simply the beginning of the "time path" that I've attempted to illustrate - and from which the story and sequence of events flows from there. But as that time path comes to its supposed 2008 conclusion and the culmination of all past actions come to a head, I'm hypothesizing that the Island that once brought down the plane in the beginning of the time path will end up being "thrown back upon itself" from 2008 and subsequently rendered non-threatening/destroyed/useless and underwater. And as a result, the reality from that point in time will become altered/revised. And since the Island has 'removed' itself from the picture, the plane does not crash.

So, in a 2008 sense, it may be "sad" that everyone will die and cease to exist as that "reality" is effectively terminated.

But this is why the Desmond character is important and possibly the whole point as to why the plot device of consciousness time travel was introduced into the story at all. The memories and lessons learned by the characters throughout this time path will not be all for naught. They will still "live on" as they CTT over to their 2004 selves in the altered reality.

And this is the real conclusion of LOST:

It is not just the goal of getting off of the Island (the 'current' on-Island sequences);

it is also whether these flawed characters can redeem themselves based on the recollections of lessons learned in their "past" (the 'future' off-Island sequences).

All we are doing right now is just viewing these things simultaneously.

....and again, I end this post with the knowledge that all that I've written could still easily be blown out of the water as the season progresses. *sigh*

[Guest iEatPowder]

So, in a 2008 sense, it may be "sad" that everyone will die and cease to exist as that "reality" is effectively terminated.

But this is why the Desmond character is important and possibly the whole point as to why the plot device of consciousness time travel was introduced into the story at all. The memories and lessons learned by the characters throughout this time path will not be all for naught. They will still "live on" as they CTT over to their 2004 selves in the altered reality.

Lol, I'm totally on the same page with you with the rest of what you said. There was no need to reiterate all that. To make the new Oceanic 816 flight sequence a flash forward would be something the writers would totally do. As of right now, all signs point to that conclusion. If the island was there, Goodspeed wouldn't have been a pediatric doctor in LA as we saw in the previous episode for example. He would've been with the Others on the island at the time of the flight.

Anyway, back to what you were saying about the CTT. That would definitely explain their loss of memory about the ordeal, seeing as Desmond suffered from similar memory loss of all things island-related when he experienced the time jumps. I wonder if they'll bring the concept of a "Constant" back into the fray as well.

[Guest HERMIT]

Lol, I'm totally on the same page with you with the rest of what you said. There was no need to reiterate all that. To make the new Oceanic 816 flight sequence a flash forward would be something the writers would totally do. As of right now, all signs point to that conclusion. If the island was there, Goodspeed wouldn't have been a pediatric doctor in LA as we saw in the previous episode for example. He would've been with the Others on the island at the time of the flight.

Anyway, back to what you were saying about the CTT. That would definitely explain their loss of memory about the ordeal, seeing as Desmond suffered from similar memory loss of all things island-related when he experienced the time jumps. I wonder if they'll bring the concept of a "Constant" back into the fray as well.

^

Speaking of "Dr. Goodspeed", I find it interesting that Goodspeed was the surname of the Dharma Initiative Leader, Horace Goodspeed (and Sawyer/LeFleur's 1974-77 boss) - yet, it's Ethan Rom that turns out to be Claire's doctor. I wonder if there is any real significance for the name switcheroo - or if it's all just to further underscore that this is all just an altered reality. Hmmm....

And hey, GREAT point about the constant aspect of CTT. I'd totally forgotten about that component, but now that I think of it, it might serve as an important factor in this theorized new altered reality. Perhaps the Losties themselves will serve as constants for each other and we'll see them methodically get knocked down like dominoes through the remainder of the storytelling narrative as their recollections/consciousness of the 'past' become fully realized. And to further theorize, perhaps the notion that they "sealed their fate" to end their 2008 time path will also help prevent them from bouncing back and forth between the time periods and suffering the physical after-affects. The 2008 time path will simply be no longer in existence for them to go back.

[Guest iEatPowder]

^

Speaking of "Dr. Goodspeed", I find it interesting that Goodspeed was the surname of the Dharma Initiative Leader, Horace Goodspeed (and Sawyer/LeFleur's 1974-77 boss) - yet, it's Ethan Rom that turns out to be Claire's doctor. I wonder if there is any real significance for the name switcheroo - or if it's all just to further underscore that this is all just an altered reality. Hmmm....

Lol, you're getting ahead of yourself! There was an episode with the Dharma Initiative where Horace's wife gives birth to a son when Sawyer and company are with them in '77. (I think Juliet delivers the baby and inquires about a name.) Horace's wife names him Ethan. So yeah, Ethan is Horace's biological son, hence the same surname.

He was probably taken in by the Others and too young to remember it. Somewhere along the way, his name was changed probably.

In the season premiere, we still see the Dharma barracks and perimeter fence on the island under water. So that would mean the Dharma Initiative was still active on the island prior to being sunk. I don't know where I'm going with this... lol. I lost my train of thought. ^^;;

And to further theorize, perhaps the notion that they "sealed their fate" to end their 2008 time path will also help prevent them from bouncing back and forth between the time periods and suffering the physical after-affects. The 2008 time path will simply be no longer in existence for them to go back.

My thoughts exactly.

[Guest HERMIT]

Lol, you're getting ahead of yourself! There was an episode with the Dharma Initiative where Horace's wife gives birth to a son when Sawyer and company are with them in '77. (I think Juliet delivers the baby and inquires about a name.) Horace's wife names him Ethan. So yeah, Ethan is Horace's biological son, hence the same surname.

Ah! I totally forgot about that ... now that makes sense! Thanks for the clarification.

In the season premiere, we still see the Dharma barracks and perimeter fence on the island under water. So that would mean the Dharma Initiative was still active on the island prior to being sunk. I don't know where I'm going with this... lol. I lost my train of thought. ^^;;

Yup, you're right about that. For the time being, the only other thing that I can also glean about their existence underwater is the observance that they are still fairly intact. I think a reasonable conclusion that could be derived from this is that if the Jughead nuclear detonation was successful in "sinking" the Island, these recognizable landmarks of the Island would exhibit discernible damage as a result of the blast. But because the fence, the barracks, and statue seem to be in relatively good condition other than being underwater, it would seem to refute the other popular theory that the bomb exploded and "splintered" the timeline into at least three supposed parallel universes (the original timeline in which the Swan was built, the one where O815 lands safely, and one where the Losties catapult still alive into 2008). Personally, I think it's too difficult to reconcile this kind of theory within one season and hence, think it dubious that the creators/writers would go in this direction.

I agree that you are on to something that the presence of the landmarks on the 'underwater Island' give a rough benchmark as to when the Island ended up being 'decommissioned'. I don't know if it's worth examining, but hell - here goes: To start out, it had to have happened between 1970, when DHARMA was established, and 2004, the year of the successful flight. Extrapolating further from that, based on the observance of Desmond being present on the flight, it could be presumed that he never encountered the Island around 2001, the time when his boat race was being held. So one could shrink that window from 1970 to 2001. Now, on future episodes, if we somehow come across Rousseau - or even her daughter, Alex - appearing alive and well in this altered reality, then we could further guesstimate that Roussea and her French team also didn't encounter the Island in 1988, further shrinking that 'window'.

Shoot, come to think of it, maybe the fact that Ethan goes by Ethan Goodspeed means that even he wasn't even born on the Island back in 1977. This now greatly diminishes that window to 1970-1977.

I guess we'll need to keep our eyes open for more clues!

[Guest iEatPowder]

Ah! I totally forgot about that ... now that makes sense! Thanks for the clarification.

Yup, you're right about that. For the time being, the only other thing that I can also glean about their existence underwater is the observance that they are still fairly intact. I think a reasonable conclusion that could be derived from this is that if the Jughead nuclear detonation was successful in "sinking" the Island, these recognizable landmarks of the Island would exhibit discernible damage as a result of the blast. But because the fence, the barracks, and statue seem to be in relatively good condition other than being underwater, it would seem to refute the other popular theory that the bomb exploded and "splintered" the timeline into at least three supposed parallel universes (the original timeline in which the Swan was built, the one where O815 lands safely, and one where the Losties catapult still alive into 2008). Personally, I think it's too difficult to reconcile this kind of theory within one season and hence, think it dubious that the creators/writers would go in this direction.

I agree that you are on to something that the presence of the landmarks on the 'underwater Island' give a rough benchmark as to when the Island ended up being 'decommissioned'. I don't know if it's worth examining, but hell - here goes: To start out, it had to have happened between 1970, when DHARMA was established, and 2004, the year of the successful flight. Extrapolating further from that, based on the observance of Desmond being present on the flight, it could be presumed that he never encountered the Island around 2001, the time when his boat race was being held. So one could shrink that window from 1970 to 2001. Now, on future episodes, if we somehow come across Rousseau - or even her daughter, Alex - appearing alive and well in this altered reality, then we could further guesstimate that Roussea and her French team also didn't encounter the Island in 1988, further shrinking that 'window'.

Shoot, come to think of it, maybe the fact that Ethan goes by Ethan Goodspeed means that even he wasn't even born on the Island back in 1977. This now greatly diminishes that window to 1970-1977.

I guess we'll need to keep our eyes open for more clues!

Hmm... I couldn't say with certainty whether Ethan was born on the Island or not. He could may very well have been transported off the island some time after birth prior to its sinking. But -shrug-. It's all speculation at this point and probably of little significance anyway. He's a minor character. xD

With regards to the Jughead detonation, I'm not familiar with the science and physics of a hydrogen explosion and the scope of its destruction, but Faraday planned to negate the pocket of energy at the swan with the explosion. So perhaps they canceled each other out? lol

[Guest HERMIT]

The following is an internet article that I found describing the Egyptian mythologies of "Set vs Osiris" and "Set vs Horus". I would not look at the following as being exactly descriptive of what is happening in LOST, but there are elements in these Egyptian myths that are similar to elements within the TV series. I don't know if it really amounts to anything or if there are connections that can be made, but some similar aspects between the myths and LOST might be enough to make you think that maybe it's from these particular myths the creators of the show borrowed some ideas in formulating the story.

(Source:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/set.htm)

Set (Seth), God of Storms, Slayer of Apep, Equal to and Rival of Horus

by Caroline Seawright

Set (Man in Black?) was one of ancient Egypt's earliest gods, a god of chaos, confusion, storms, wind, the desert and foreign lands. In the Osiris legends, he was a contender to the throne of Osiris and rival to Horus (Jacob?), but a companion to the sun god Ra. Originally worshiped and seen as an ambivalent being, during the Third Intermediate Period the people vilified him and turned him into a god of evil.

*

*

As Set was a god of the desert (interesting how the desert was a common destination after the turning of the donkey wheel)and probably symbolized the destructive heat of the afternoon sun, and thus was thought to be infertile (infertility/bearing children was a recurring problem amongst women on the Island). The hieroglyph for Set was used in words such as 'turmoil', 'confusion' (time travel side effects?),'illness' (what Rousseau's team suffered from?), 'storm' and 'rage'. Strange events such as eclipses, thunderstorms (unpredictable rain on the Island) and earthquakes were all attributed to him.

Horus has seized Set, he has put him beneath you so that he can lift

you up. He will groan beneath you as an earthquake...

-- Pyramid Texts, Spell 356

He was also thought to have rather odd sexual habits, another reason why the Egyptian believed that abnormalities were linked to Set. In a land where fatherhood makes the man, Set's lack of children (again, another allusion to the Island infertility problems), related to the tale where Horus tore off his testicles (while Set tore out Horus' eye) would have been on reason why he was looked down on. (The close up of an 'opening eye' is a recurring opening scene on the show) His favorite - some say only - food was the lettuce (which secreted a white, milky substance that the Egyptians linked to semen and was sacred to the fertility god Min), but even with this aphrodisiac, he was still thought to have been infertile.

His bisexuality (he was married and given concubines appease him, yet he also assaulted Horus sexually starting with the come-on line "How lovely your backside is!") and his pursuit of Isis were reasons why Set could never have been a ruler of Egypt instead of Osiris, despite originally being a lord of Upper Egypt. (The sexual orientation of Mr. Friendly = a slight nod to the sexuality aspect of this Egyptian myth?)

When Set saw Isis there, he transformed himself into a bull to be able

to pursue her, but she made herself unrecognizable by taking the form of a

<pinkberry> with a knife on her tail. Then she began to run away from him and Set was

unable to catch up with her. Then he ejaculated on the ground, and she said,

"It's disgusting to have ejaculated, you bull!" But his sperm grew in

the desert and became the plants called bedded-kau.

-- Jumilhac Papyrus

In the Old and Middle Kingdoms there are depictions of these two gods together either leading the prisoners of the pharaoh or binding the plants of Upper and Lower Egypt together (as does the twin Hapi gods) to symbolize the union of Upper and Lower Egypt. He was regarded as an equal to the hawk god. This was Horus the Elder (Jacob), a god of the day sky while Set was seen as a god of the night sky(Man in Black/Smokey). When these two gods were linked, the two were said to be Horus-Set, a man with two heads - one of the hawk of Horus, the other of the Set animal.

"Homage to thee, O divine Ladder! Homage to thee O Ladder of Set!

Stand thou upright, O divine Ladder! Stand thou upright, O Ladder of Set! Stand

thou upright, O Ladder of Horus, whereby Osiris came forth into heaven."

-- Pyramid Texts, Pepi I

In the Pyramid Texts he was believed to be a friend to the dead, (Man In Black/Smokey sure likes to impersonate people who are already dead) and he helped Osiris ascend to heaven on a ladder. On one of Seti I's reliefs, it shows Set and Horus offering the symbol of life to the pharaoh, with Set saying "I establish the crown upon thy head, even like the Disk on the head of Amen-Ra, and I will give thee all life, strength and health." Thothmose III had a scene showing Set teaching him the use of the bow, while Horus taught him yet another weapon.

As for his role as a friend of the dead, it was believed that "Horus purifies and Set strengthens, and Set purifies and Horus strengthens" the deceased while the backbone of the deceased becomes the backbone of Set and Set has "joined together my neck and my back strongly, and they are even as they were in the time that is past; may nothing happen to break them apart." (In a loosely similar way, John Locke was 'reborn' with a new life, given the ability to walk and the strength/ability to hunt. Wonder if this other 'weapon' was the knife?)

Ramesses II, as did his father Seti I, both had red hair and so aligned themselves with the god of chaos. (Kind of a stretch, but didn't Charlotte also have red hair and this odd fascination for the Island?) Both were famous warrior pharaohs, using Set's violent nature to help with their war efforts. In Ramesses II's campaign against the Hittites, he split his army into four divisions and named them after four gods. One was for Amen, one for Ra, one for Ptah and one for Set. But it was the pharaoh (John Locke?) himself who won the battle:

Thereupon the forces of the Foe from Khatti surrounded the followers of

his majesty who were by his side. When his majesty (John Locke) caught sight of them he rose

quickly, enraged at them like his father Mont. Taking up weapons and donning

his armor he was like Set in the moment of his power (well, 'fake' Locke is really just Man In Black/Smokey in disguise). He mounted 'Victory-in-Thebes,' his great horse,

and started out quickly alone by himself. His majesty was mighty, his heart stout.

One could not stand before him.

All his ground was ablaze with fire (hmm, like the fire he threw Jacob into?);

he burned all the countries with his blast. His eyes were savage as he beheld them; his power flared like fire against them. He heeded not the foreign multitude

(the LOSTies, Others, Ajira survivors ... from a foreign time?); he regarded them as chaff.

His majesty charged into the force of the Foe from Khatti and the many

countries with him. His majesty was like Seth,(again, Locke = MiB) great-of-strength, like Sekhmet

in the moment of her rage. His majesty slew the entire force of the Foe from

Khatti, together with his great chiefs and all his brothers, as well as all the

chiefs of all the countries that had come with him, their infantry and their

charioteers falling on their faces one upon the other. His majesty slaughtered

them in their places; they sprawled before his horses; and his majesty was

alone, none other with him.

-- The Account of the Battle of Qedesh, the Ramesseum

(Hate to think that Smokey defeats Jacob, at least in this context!)

It is likely that the cult of Horus (Jacob, Losties) overtook the cult of Set (Smokey) in ancient times, and started to remove his positive sides to give the god Horus more status. The two gods, Horus the Elder and Horus the son of Osiris and Isis were confused, so Set changed from being an equal to his brother, Horus the Elder, to the enemy of Isis's son. It was only after the Hyksos took Set as their main god, after the Egyptians got rid of the foreigners, he stopped symbolizing Lower Egypt and his name was erased and his statues destroyed.

Set has been worshiped since predynastic times. The first representation of Set that has been found was on a carved ivory comb, an Amratian artifact. He was also shown on the Scorpion macehead. He was worshiped and placated through Egyptian history until the Third Intermediate Period where he was seen as an evil and undesirable force. From this time on, some of his statues were re-carved to become the statues of other gods, and it was said that he had actually been defeated by the god Horus.

(Could it be that Man In Black/Smokey is not really a "bad guy" .. just that he got a bad rap for his historical reputation, and in the process became jealous of the Jacob's better standing as a god? Maybe he's just setting the record straight ... and maybe the so-called redemption theme of LOST extends not just for the survivors but even for the Smokey himself?)

In the original tale of the fight between Set and Horus, the Egyptians believed that the two would continue their battle until the end of time itself, when chaos overran ma'at and the waters of Nun would swallow up the world. (A battle to end all battles, where the Island is underwater?) It was only when Set was vilified that this changed, and the Egyptians began to believe that Horus won the battle, defeating Set as a version of good triumphing over evil.

Set vs Osiris Myth

In the tale of Osiris, Set was the third of the five children of Nut, thought to have been born in the Nubt (Naqada) area. Instead of being born in the normal manner, as his siblings were born, he tore himself violently from his mother's womb. (Alluded to in the similarly violent manner in which Ben Linus was born?)

You whom the pregnant goddess brought forth when you clove the night in twain -

You are invested with the form of Set, who broke out in violence.

-- Pyramid Texts

Jealous of his older brother Osiris - either because of the birth of his sister-wife's son, Anubis, or because of Osiris' rulership of Egypt - Set made a plan to murder his childless brother and take the throne. (It's also interesting to note how LOST at one time enlisted a subplot in which Ben believed Juliet 'belonged to him' and was jealous of her then-relationship with Goodwin. It was also later that Ben admittedly sent Goodwin on a mission where there was a good chance that he would die.)

He made a great feast, supposedly in honor of Osiris, and with 72 accomplices ready (there were 72 survivors from the Oceanic crash), he tricked Osiris into laying down in a coffer - whoever fitted into the richly ornamented chest would win it - and considering that he'd measured it to fit his brother exactly, Osiris fit perfectly... and Set's accomplices nailed down the lid and threw it into the Nile. (another reference similar to how Christian Shepherd and John Locke were also in coffins on the Oceanic and Ajira flights.)

On a side note, and speaking of "great feasts", it's interesting to call attention to some LOST promotional pictures taken to hype up the final season. Now you tell me, what do you notice?

(Hint: who's at the center of the table - the 'Jesus figure', if you will?)

When Isis found out about this, she went on a search through the world to find her husband (similar theme reflected on LOST by how Sun is looking for Jin?). Bringing him back, Set happened on the coffer, and tore it open and cut up his brother's corpse, spreading body parts through the land of Egypt. Isis and Set's wife Nephthys (who had left him to join her sister) went on a quest to restore Osiris. They succeeded enough so that Isis conceived Osiris' son and eventually bore the child Horus in the Delta region where he grew up.

By this time Horus had reached manhood ... Horus thereupon did battle

with Set, the victory falling now to one, now to the other ... Horus and Set,

it is said, still do battle with one another, yet victory has fallen to

neither.

-- Egypt - Myths and Legends, Lewis Spence

Yet Set was thought to be a follower of Ra. It was he who defended the Solar Barque each night as it traveled through the underworld, the only Egyptian deity who could kill the serpent Apep - Ra's most dangerous enemy - each night as it threatened to swallow the Barque.

Then Set, the strong one, the son of Nut, said "As for me, I am

Set, the strongest of the Divine Company. Every day I slay the enemy of Ra when

I stand at the helm of the Barque of Millions of Years, which no other god dare

do."

Even here, though, Set was thought to be a braggart, taunting Ra and threatening that if he wasn't treated well, that he would bring storms and thunder against the sun god. At this point in The Book of the Dead, Ra drives Set away from the Barque for his insolence, and proceeds on course without the god of storms.

Other than Nephthys, Set had other wives/concubines (theme also reflected in how Christian Shepherd had liasons with different women, with whom he had Jack and Claire). He was believed to live in the northern sky by the constellation of the Great Bear (Polar Bears!?). To the Egyptians, the north symbolized darkness, cold and death. It was there that his wife Taweret (Tawaret is the subject of the 4 Toed Statue), the hippo goddess of childbirth, was believed to keep him chained. He seemed to have bad luck with women - as with Nephthys, Taweret followed Osiris.

At one part in the tale of Set's argument with Horus over rulership, the company of the gods asked the goddess Neith, rather than Ra - who sided with Set - who should be given the throne of Osiris. Her reply was this:

"Give the office of Osiris to his son Horus! Do not go on

committing these great wrongs, which are not in place, or I will get angry and

the sky will topple to the ground. But also tell the Lord of All, the Bull who

lives in Heliopolis, to double Set's property. Give him Anat and Astarte, your

two daughters, and put Horus in the place of his father."

-- Myth and Symbol in Ancient Egypt, RT Rundle Clark

So he was given the two foreign goddesses Anat and Astarte, both war goddesses from the Syria Palestine area and daughters of Ra. The two were often interchangeable, yet they had their own distinct cults. Anat and Taweret, though they were fertility goddesses, never bore Set any children (Perhaps there's a comparison to be made at how Rousseau, and now seemingly Claire, both became militant inhabitants of the Island, setting traps, carrying rifles, and being wary of others. Ironic too that they both bore children, each one having been abducted/coveted Ben Linus, yet they weren't ever his to truly call his own.).

Despite his wicked side, Set was still a god of Egypt, and worshiped - and feared - as such. His image changed through time, due to politics, yet he was still a powerful god, the only one who could slay Ra's

worst enemy. To the Egyptians he was the god who 'ate' the moon each month - the black boar who swallowed its light - and the god who created earthquakes and heavy, thunderous rain storms. He was a friend of the dead, helping them to ascend to heaven on his ladder, and the crowner of pharaohs and leader of warriors.

Despite his bad reputation, he was still a divine being - an equal of Horus, no less - who could be invoked by his followers (like how Ben called up Smokey to kill Keamy's men) or warded off by those who were afraid of him (use of a sonic fence?). Yet without chaos and confusion there would be no order; without the heavy, thunderous storms there would be no good weather; without the desert and foreign lands there would be no Egypt. Set was a counterbalance to the 'good' side of the Egyptian universe, helping to keep everything in balance.

[Guest iEatPowder]

^Definitely an interesting read.

[Guest CK92842]

thot last night's episode was pointless since it answered hardly anything! is this seriously the end of the series cuz it hardly feels like it..

It's becoming ever more clear the writers had/have no idea where to take show. The whole time travel theme of the previous season worked perfectly because it was essentially a reboot. The pilot and how the series stands today are worlds different.

In the back of my mind I know all mysteries surrounding the survivors and island won't be answered.

[Guest graceyoon]

^ lol if that's true, the writers better prepare for some major backlash from die hard fans

but i agree, i do worry they might end it off as one big cliff hanger, leaving it up to fans to decide what really happened (which would be a total cop out)

butttt i have faith things will be answered.. i really liked the concept of that first flash forward, and how the following episodes answered that.. thinking perhaps the past episodes of them on the airplane are also flash forwards, but we shall see

Kate and Jack are the worst.

JACK IS LEGEND ... yeah kate not so much but that's ok C:

[Guest HERMIT]

thot last night's episode was pointless since it answered hardly anything! is this seriously the end of the series cuz it hardly feels like it..

Sure it has.

If there's anything that the episode itself has provided, it's at least expounded upon two lingering questions/mysteries:

1. An explanation of the mysterious "Sickness" that plagued Danielle's French team and the manner in which it spreads itself, and

2. What became of Claire after her inexplicable abandonment of Aaron in the jungle and last sighting in Jacob's cabin with her father, Christian Shepherd.

Regarding no. 1, we get a better idea through the circumstances of Sayid's 'death' and the manner in which Dogen treats his condition, what Rousseau earlier classified as "the Sickness'. Recalling back to the 1988 flashback when the French team first set foot on the Island and how they came to be 'abducted' at the Temple by the Smoke monster, we gleaned further information that this so-called 'illness' apparently had something to do with Smoky (who we now know as being the Man In Black, adversary to Jacob). Now, with Sayid, Dogen tells Jack at first how he is "sick" but later clarifies it to mean that he is 'infected' and 'claimed'. From this dialogue alone, we can logically discern that the 'illness' has to do with Smoky=MIB and it implies more of a 'possession' rather than an illness. But it is not a fast-acting possession as Dogen further elaborates, "There is a darkness growing in (Sayid). And once it reaches his heart, everything your friend once was will be gone." The fact that he describes the possession as a 'darkness' further solidifies the implication that it is associated with the doings of Smoky/MIB. And lastly, Dogen further clarifies to Jack that this same condition happened with his sister, Claire.

Which brings us to no. 2. After the Smoke monster's attack on Keamy and his men at the barracks, Miles, Sawyer, Claire, and Aaron's escape into the jungle, and then Claire's inexplicable disappearance, leaving Aaron behind, we were left with the mystery of what became of her. As stated in no. 1 above, Dogen laid down the statement that the Sickness/possession also happened to her. Judging from the fact that she seemed to have been lured away from Miles and Sawyer by her dad, Christian - and then later appearing again with him in the infamous cabin when Locke paid another visit - we get a better grasp of her ominous predicament since it is apparently Smoky/MIB with whom she had last been keeping company.

But there are some speculative observations to be made. The manner in which the Sickness/possession takes effect is only after somebody has died, as Sayid apparently had done in the Temple. Although it is not explicitly evident, it is presumed that Smoky/MIB lured and killed the rest of Rousseau's team, possessed them, and in turn used them to try and likewise lure/kill Danielle so that she too could be in the 'possession' of MIB. However, as the story goes, we know that Danielle ultimately never succumbed to that ploy, having killed all of her French team. With that said, we had no conclusive evidence in the earlier episodes that Claire was actually killed or already dead. Instead, we are left with the assumption that while still alive and well, Christian aka Smoky was in the process of luring Claire into his clutches - the same way that he had tried to do with Danielle much earlier.

However, by the end of this last episode, we are treated with the big reveal that Claire is alive and well - and by some sort of ironic twist, she is looking as crazed and disheveled as Danielle once was. Although Danielle had long since been dead, we are sprinkled with hints that similar traps were still laid out throughout the Island - the implication being that it was a now-paranoid Claire that had laid them out and has somehow taken up the "Danielle role". In a further ironic twist, much like how Jin last encountered Danielle, being chased by her and her rifle in one of his time flashes, he is again looking up at the end of another rifle, only this time it is Claire holding it.

In any event, another inference can be made from the Danielle-Claire comparison: if Danielle somehow escaped the lure and clutches of MIB/Smoky, then seeing Claire in this most recent development might imply that she too has somehow succeeded the same way Rousseau ha and has managed to survive thus far.

-------

On a separate speculative note, I had commented earlier in this post that the methodology in which the Sickness/possession took effect was only after a person has died - as we've seen with Sayid. I'm also wondering if it also has to do with the fact that a person hasn't been properly buried - with their respective soul being committed to the afterlife, so to speak. What makes me particularly think about this is how both Christian and Locke were both dead in their respective coffins, yet not 'officially' buried. Hence, their bodies were 'fair game' for Smoky to do as he pleased. By the same token, if a body becomes possessed by MIB what becomes of the person's soul if they aren't properly committed into the afterlife? Here's a wild thought: those 'lost souls' are the Whispers themselves.

Suppose the whole conflict between Jacob and MIB happens to be some kind of internal power struggle over the Temple/Island - but the caveat is that neither of them can kill the other. Both of them seem to be these mystical, god-like, or even immortal type of beings - but when they can't settle disputes amongst themselves, they have to bring ordinary man into the equation. Maybe Jacob has his own ideas and designs in which he thinks man can help him be the victor in this struggle - and MIB has his own ideas too on how man can benefit him. Hence, MIB's comment of having to find a "loophole" in which he thinks he can beat (in this case, kill) Jacob. As a result, this struggle between Jacob and MIB has been going on constantly throughout time with ordinary man unwittingly being the pawn every time. Jacob brings men to the Island to help him in his as-yet undetermined plan, but MIB undermines him each time as he methodically crafts his own loophole scheme. And as this continues on, they essentially create an Island of lost souls/whispers.

It's probably a long-shot of a thought, but it would be interesting to think that another connotation of the title "LOST" is not only in respect to how the main characters are lost within their own lives and seeking of some redemption; it might also mean the redemption of all those lives/souls 'trapped' on that Island as they fell victim to this power struggle between two quarreling 'god-like' entities.

[Guest HERMIT]

It's becoming ever more clear the writers had/have no idea where to take show. The whole time travel theme of the previous season worked perfectly because it was essentially a reboot. The pilot and how the series stands today are worlds different.

In the back of my mind I know all mysteries surrounding the survivors and island won't be answered.

Here's a Damon Lindelof/Carlton Cuse interview article that should hopefully allay your fears, if not at least put into perspective the reasons behind the methods in which they are telling the story:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-pre...-damon-carlton/