LOST

[Guest damachee]

C.S Lewis is indeed dead, was reading another site about the interview with her.

just wondering about the time difference thing. when the Oceanic 6 get back, they will be 3 years older than the people on the island? because the island time is behind ( a bit like Narnia). so the O6 were in real world for 3 years but when they get back, it would only be a couple of days since they left.

[Guest HERMIT]

C.S Lewis is indeed dead, was reading another site about the interview with her.

just wondering about the time difference thing. when the Oceanic 6 get back, they will be 3 years older than the people on the island? because the island time is behind ( a bit like Narnia). so the O6 were in real world for 3 years but when they get back, it would only be a couple of days since they left.

No, I don't believe that Island time is "behind" as you are perceiving it.

What we are viewing are two different times:

- what's happening with the Oceanic 6 are occuring in the present time.

- what's happening with the LeftBehinders happened in the past.

To put it in better perspective, just use John Locke as a point of reference:

In the Oceanic 6 time frame, he's dead and laying in a casket somewhere awaiting transport back to the Island.

But in the LeftBehinders time frame, Locke is alive and well and leading the group towards the Orchid.

So really, what we are seeing with the Leftbehinders and Locke is a retelling of past events that describe how Locke came to finding his way off the Island .... but, is now "dead" in the present tense of the Oceanic 6.

Hence, there is no 3 year "time lag" - or, at least, I don't think we can confidently conclude that there is one. We're simply watching what is happening now (Oceanic 6) and what happened 3 years before (LeftBehinders).

When Locke eventually did get off of the Island, we don't know how long it took him to individually approach each of the O6'ers to persuade them to come back.

Moreover, we don't know the length of time that passed before Locke met his "death".

For all we know, all these events could have transpired throughout the 3 years of off-Island time leading up to the current series of events that we are now seeing this season.

Meanwhile, from the LeftBehinder's perspective, what we've watched so far are only the number of days or so that transpired on the Island after Ben turned the wheel. Now that we're up to the point where Locke has gone down the Orchid well and turned the wheel (and presumably got off the Island from this action - I guess we'll find out), we've yet to see what will become of the rest of the group in the next 3 years while Locke is gone.

At least, that's my interpretation of the timelines we are seeing.

[Guest annabanana]

I've invested so much time into watching LOST that now I feel like I owe it to myself to hang in there and keep on watching the show. I liked seeing the smoke monster again and Jack's dad in the third episode (aired 02/11/09). Who knows except the show's creators, but maybe everyone is already dead on the island and the island is like some kind of messed up version purgatory.

[Guest graceyoon]

i missed the first half so now i am truly lost ... i will have to watch it next week, 2 hours of lost w00t

[Guest damachee]

hmm..well initially i did think that the LeftBehinds story is in the past 3 years ago and the O6 are present time, but the only problem i see right now is the time-skipping issue.

i don't think they have to wait 3 years for the O6 to return, otherwise they'd all be dead from nose-bleed they get from time travelling. CS Lewis died in just a day and the rest are getting nose-bleeds too.

or - they could possibly time travel 3 years ahead when they do meet up with the O6, but then im wondering how they would somehow end up in the same time period if they keep time travelling

Interesting video with P Chang and you can hear Faraday/Miles voices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo6Q7gzUjI8...feature=related

[Guest HERMIT]

i don't think they have to wait 3 years for the O6 to return, otherwise they'd all be dead from nose-bleed they get from time travelling. CS Lewis died in just a day and the rest are getting nose-bleeds too.

Interesting video with P Chang and you can hear Faraday/Miles voices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo6Q7gzUjI8...feature=related

I think I'm going to beg to differ here and I'll explain by way of prefacing this with my own theory/perception of what is happening. Let me begin first by offering up a visual analogy:

We know that from the Oceanic 6 perspective, time has progressed normally - and as we have seen, 3 years have elapsed in real world time. Meanwhile, we also know that the Island itself has experienced a multitude of random time flashes. But even while the LeftBehinders have been subject to these multiple time flashes, the Island as a whole has been progressing forward in time in a linear fashion.

To put this in perspective, imagine a straight infinite line, representing the progression of time. That is, if you took your finger and traced across this line, after one minute of tracing you will end up at some point further down this line. This illustrates the way Oceanic 6 has been progressing through time and they are essentially 3 years down this analogous time line.

Second, imagine the Island as being enclosed in its own isolated snow globe. Now instead of using your finger as you did in the example above, imagine dragging this Island snow globe along this time line in the same manner. As you can see, this demonstrates that the Island is also progressing through time in the same linear fashion as the Oceanic 6 has been doing across this real time line. But now, let's focus back on the representation of the Island as being within this isolated snow globe: within the snow globe, we witness the multiple flashes that the LeftBehinders have been experiencing. One time they're in the 1950s, another time they're back in 2004, and yet another time they find themselves in 1988. As you picture these time flashes on this imaginary snow globe, it is as if the Island is "changing channels" from one time or another. But the key point here is that these flashes are isolated to within the snow globe and not on the real time line itself. That is to say, as the time flashes within the Island snow globe, the globe is still being dragged along the line and progressing forward in real time.

Here's another way of picturing it: Let's say that the LeftBehinders were in 1954 at the Other's military camp. They were there for 3 hours ... and then a time flash occurs. The LeftBehinders now suddenly find themselves in the same place but it is now 1988. Although it might seem that they have jumped across 34 years in time, the reality is that only 3 hours of real time has elapsed. The Island snow globe has progressed 3 hours along the real linear time line but upon the completion of that third hour, the Island snow globe instantaneously "changed channels" from being 1954 and became 1988. The time flash was isolated within the snow globe itself.

With this working hypothesis now having been presented, it is my belief that the LeftBehinders were still subject to waiting the 3 years for the Oceanic 6 to return. Just as it took the 3 years along the linear time line for the Oceanic 6 to get their act together and eventually resolve to coming back to the Island, so too would the LeftBehinders also be subject to traveling along that same linear timeline and 'waiting out' the same 3 years. The only difference is that from the outset, the LeftBehinders had those pesky time flashes to deal with. It would be like trying to watch a 3 hour ballgame, but somebody kept changing the channel on you at random moments during the game.

So now, the question boils down to this: how do the LeftBehinders survive through all the time flashes? After all, we are witness to them suffering nosebleeds and brain hemmorhaging - and we now already have a first casualty with the death of Charlotte Lewis.

Well, as we have seen upon the conclusion of this last episode ("This Place Is Death"), the group makes it back to the Orchid and Locke manages to find his way down the well and into the Frozen Donkey Wheel (FDW) chamber where he meets up with Christian Shephard. But the key bit of info to note in this pivotal scene is that Christian informs Locke that the wheel is slipped off of its axis and lo and behold, when we see the wheel it appears to be jostling forwards and backwards and not keeping in place. But once Locke manages to get himself into position to move the wheel, he's able to fix the wheel from being unhinged and then he too is able to push the wheel just as Ben did. The room lights up like before and it's presumed that Locke is now expelled from the Island and thrown back into the real world - much like what happened to Ben. It is from this point on, I'm presuming that Locke will continue with his game plan of reuniting the Oceanic 6 and persuading them all to come back to the Island.

But let's go back and revisit the FDW for a minute. As we know, the turning of the wheel evidently has a hand in changing what time period it is on the Island. But we now notice that after Ben had turned the wheel, it appears that the wheel has fallen off of its axis and is not 'locked' into place. Instead, we see that the wheel has been jostling about back and forth. Having seen this and juxtaposing this observation with what we have been witnessing on the Island with all the time flashes, I think it would be logical to presume that with the failure of the FDW to appropriately lock into place, it's constant moving back and forth is what was causing all the time jumps that the LeftBehinders had been experiencing.

Yet now, we see that Locke has managed to fix the FDW axis problem and then subsequently turn the wheel for himself. So what does this now mean? With the wheel now functioning properly and presumably locked into place, I am going to hypothesize that the problematic time flashes will now stop for the LeftBehinders. No more time flashes means no more nosebleeds, no more headaches, and no more threat of impending death for the LeftBehinders. That problem may now be solved.

However, with that problem seemingly resolved, the LeftBehinders will now be confronted with a new problem: What time frame are they currently in on the Island? With the FDW locked into place, the LeftBehinders should theoretically be 'stuck' in the time period that they ended up in upon the last time flash.

Here's my little working theory as to what happens from here on out for the remainder of Season 5:

I think that the LeftBehinders will ultimately find that they ended up at a time on the Island when the DHARMA Initiative is in full effect. And now with the time being stabilized and the time flashes having ceased, they are going to have to come to terms with life on the Island and perhaps trying to find their 'place' on it - whether it be somehow finding a way to coexist with either the DHARMA group or the Hostiles (earlier Others). My notion, however, is that the LeftBehinders will somehow find a way to either infiltrate/assimilate themselves within the DHARMA Initiative. Do you remember the earlier scene in the season premiere where we see Daniel Faraday present in the construction shafts during the construction of the Orchid station? I think this scene was a foreshadowing of things to come and indicates how Daniel managed to infiltrate DHARMA by impersonating a construction worker. The link that damachee provided above is another clue that I gleaned that might also support this hypothesis. In that link, we see Dr. Pierre Chang (aka Marvin Candle from all those orientation videos) making a plea for help in a video meant for a future audience that is 30 years or so down the road. But the interesting observation that could be made are the off-camera voices that could be heard while Chang is making his video presentation: the voices sound like those of Miles Straum and Daniel Faraday. If these are their voices, then perhaps we could be given foreshadowing information that Miles and Daniel will have infiltrated deep into the DHARMA hierarchy to at least as high as Dr. Chang and perhaps explaining their predicament to him - and maybe even validating all the work that he's been researching regarding space/time and possibly seeking his help in getting the Losties off the Island.

The only thing left to fully integrate into the storyline is just when the Oceanic 6 make it back to the Island. Judging from the spoiler information that I've come across in which there were production photos revealing Juliet, Sawyer, AND Kate wearing DHARMA Initiative jumpsuits - thus implying that BOTH LeftBehinders and Oceanic 6 are working in concert together in infiltrating DHARMA- it would appear that the Oceanic 6 would not only reunite with the LeftBehinders, they would arrive on the Island at the same DHARMA time that the LeftBehinders are in.

This scenario would be plausible within the same context of the "snow globe" analogy that I presented above:

- After Locke turns the wheel and escapes the Island, the Island time is now stabalized from all the time flashes.

- The LeftBehinders will find themselves now 'stuck' on the Island during the DHARMA era (1970s-1980s)

- Over the next 2-3 years, the Oceanic 6 will sift through their own individual problems in the real world (Hurley gets committed to a mental institution, Sayid becomes Ben's hitman, Kate raises Aaron and goes through her trial for being a criminal fugitive, Sun gives birth to Ji Yeon and gains controlling interest of her dad's company, and Jack becomes an addict and suffers professionally at his work); Locke will apparently set forth in his plan to bring the Oceanic 6 back to the Island, he'll assume the identity and life of being Jeremy Bentham; and lastly, back on the Island, the LeftBehinders will embark on the task of surviving on the Island given the new parameters of existing in the company of both the Dharma Initiative and the early Others/Hostiles.

- After the 3 years have passed, the Oceanic 6 will have gotten their act together and finally will return to the Island. Presumably, they will have gathered the necessary information from Eloise Hawking on not only where they can find the Island but what proper heading at which they can arrive on the Island without suffering the ill-effects of passing the 'time barrier' surrounding the place if entered at the wrong angle. And once the Oceanic 6 enter and find themselves back on the Island, they will realize that they have left behind the 2009 real world from which they came and entered the 1970s-1980s DHARMA era Island where the LeftBehinders "currently" find themselves.

Having said all that, I hence conclude that the remainder of the season (or is it the series?) will deal with the same fundamental problem that the Losties have faced all along: How are they ALL going to get off of the Island?

My best guess, out-of-left-field prediction would run along these lines:

The Oceanic 6 will find themselves back on the Island. At first, they won't realize that the time frame of the Island is actually in the 1970s-1980s DHARMA era. Eventually, they will reunite with LeftBehinders and they will ultimately be brought up to speed as to what the LeftBehinders have been up to during the 3 years and what exactly they are dealing with as it pertains to where they stand between the DHARMA group and the Hostiles.

Meanwhile, Daniel Faraday will have been putting his scientific mind to work and will be trying to figure out how to get off the Island. Perhaps by making the connection that the well Locke went down coincides with getting off the Island and stopping all the time flashes, Faraday will observe and study intently whatever DHARMA discovers in building the Orchid station. Eventually, I think he will discover the presence of the FDW and infer that this is their ticket off of the Island. However, the roadblock that they may have to deal with is the presence of DHARMA. Hence, this is where possibly approaching and befriending Dr. Pierre Chang/Marvin Candle will come into play in perhaps getting him to help the Losties as an ally.

Now here's what's probably the most fanatical prediction/theory that I'll make:

The Losties group will somehow make it into the FDW chamber and together will turn the wheel as a means to get off of the Island and finally find themselves back in the real world. And this may very well be accomplished with the help of Dr. Chang. Here's the clever part: knowing that there could be severe aftereffects from spinning the wheel, Faraday will probably advise Chang to monitor the electomagnetic energy that emanates from the FDW chamber afterwards - as well as warn against the possibility of having another problem of time flashes threatening the remaining inhabitants. With this being said, the Losties turn the wheel and make it off of the Island ... and back on the Island, Chang/DHARMA will noticeably observe that Farady was right: after the Losties leave, there's something that's still not right with the FDW. But instead of suffering from the constant time flashes as before when Ben left, there is rather and observable slow build-up of EM energy that will eventually turn into a time flash if left uncontrolled. As a result, this is the "Incident" that was cryptically referred to by Marvin Candle in the Swan station orientation video: the incident would essentially be the spectacular exit off the Island by the Losties and the remnant EM 'leak' that now has to be addressed.

And guess how DHARMA addresses this problem? They implement a Swan station protocol of monitoring the build up of EM energy over the course of 108 minutes - and by that threshold 108th minute, the numbers code is entered onto the computer which allows the station to best 'release' the EM energy out into the open and safely dissipate. By doing this every 108 minutes, the EM energy is effectively suppressed into becoming a time flash and causing the Island to jump into an unpredictable alternate time frame.

*whew*

Sorry, I guess I got carried away....

[sweetcream]

^It looks like the left-behinders are back in the time.

The well is gone. Unless in the future or present time, it's been knocked out.

I've always liked Jin-Sun centered eps.

Time paradox indeed... or?

The return of the smoke monster! (Has that/it ever been explained? "Security system"?)

Yeah that's what Danielle said about the smoke monster, but it's still so weird.

I always thought it was the souls of the dead on the island gathered.

I'm hoping they explain about it more this season.

It was crazy when that thing came after that French guy and went into the "temple of doom"! lol

[Guest CK92842]

Tonights episode...required a huge leap of faith.

Not one of my favorites but next weeks should be something to look forward to.

[Guest graceyoon]

ben gets beat up so much!! lol i wonder why

[Guest CK92842]

ben gets beat up so much!! lol i wonder why

I went to get a drink during that part so what exactly happened to 'em. Widmore's men?

[Guest dudeman]

^ A lot of stuff was made ambiguous in this episode, Ben's injuries included.

I almost thought the episode totally lost it when Kate popped out of nowhere and suddenly decided that she's going along, but then I realized...there's just way too many fuzzy things going on for this to be a plain screwup. Hurley's sudden appearance, Sayid's sudden appearance, Ben's injuries, Sun's decision, Lapidus, Kate's decision to leave Aaron behind, etc. I am pretty certain a lot of those things will be flashback material in future episodes. Hurley, for example, is obviously not carrying a guitar in that case, and if he really was, then it's definitely not for playing. Last we checked, Hurley was cleared of charges, but that still doesn't explain how he got from there to the plane. This will definitely be explained in the future, along with the other characters.

Both the beginning and the end of this episode were some of the best parts. And here I thought Jin's first reappearance was the most shocking cliffhanger...

[Guest graceyoon]

yeah do u think the fact that aaron was left behind might screw things up, he was part of the oceanic 6 right..

[Guest Mibora]

I love how it ended haha. Can't wait til next week

[Guest CK92842]

yeah do u think the fact that aaron was left behind might screw things up, he was part of the oceanic 6 right..

I thought that was a bit cheap of them to temporarily write off Aaron. Since Jack won't ask the question at all now then that means we won't have a clue as to what happened to him. That is until Kate decides to open up but this just brings me back to season 2 when the writers had no idea what to do with Walt.

[Guest HERMIT]

In regards to Aaron, here's my reasoning:

Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island and she doesn't want to bring Aaron with her.

Suddenly, she wants to go back - and moreover, she doesn't have Aaron with her anymore.

Even more disturbing is that she doesn't want to utter another word about it with Jack.

So what would be the one motivating factor to change Kate's mind so quickly?

Something must have happened to Aaron to cause her to act the way we have seen in this episode. To act so depressed and crestfallen the way she was does not seem indicative of a person that gave Aaron to somebody to take care of him. That reasoning doesn't jive. Kate is acting as if she just lost Aaron and that she unwillingly gave him up.

My feeling is that Aaron had been abducted by Widmore and his operatives and they are using him as leverage against Kate in order to make her go back to the Island and carry out Widmore's agenda.

This isn't unfathomable to consider, seeing how Sun was working with Widmore to begin. If he was able to keep track of Ben, Widmore would also have had tabs on any of the Oceanic 6.

So now, seeing that Sun wasn't able to pull the trigger on Ben and is now aligning her allegiance (for the time being) with him, Widmore must be using the kidnapped Aaron on Kate as a secondary protocol to either help him find the Island, keep track of and kill Ben, or probably most likely do both.

I think we'll have to scrutinize Kate's motives from here on out: she's being coerced to work for Widmore. At this point, her actions could be motivated purely out of fear for the safety of Aaron, so long as he's in the clutches of Widmore - and she may even sacrifice the well-being of her fellow Losties to see to that end.

I think this scenario could be possible because it's as close an explanation to Kate's strange behavior. Aaron being held hostage and Widmore's coercion would be enough reason to quickly change her mind to returning to the Island; Kate's gloomy and depressed demeanor in Jack's home seemed indicative of a mother that just lost her child; and, more compellingly, Kate's demand of Jack to never speak about Aaron again may be another clue that she is being blackmailed not to reveal her forced alliance with Widmore, lest Aaron be harmed if she tells anybody.

[Guest kiss*kiss]

This show only presents question after question. And what we do know is freaking nebulous.

Why is the Island always moving?

What is Daniel Faraday's mother's deal? That creepy "But I am helping them..." response was not helpful.

How does she know everyone's "roles"?

Pockets of energy?

Recreate the circumstances? What does that have to do with it?

Why was Saayid arrested and with a Marshall?

What happened to the rest of the people on the plane?

Why does grandad Ray look so young and healthy for his age -- he could just as well be Jack's dad.

MY NUMBER ONE QUESTION -- What the heck is Jack's dad's connection to the Island?

[sorry if my questions were already addressed, in this thread.]

[Guest graceyoon]

ok i'm gonna combine everyone's comments into my post...

my sister said that aaron was with sun's mom??? have no idea where she got that, but i had the notion there was something more to it than leaving aaron with a family member.. and what i felt with kate being so adamant with jack not to ask where aaron is, i thought she was doing that as a protection measure, to prevent him from being involved with all the drama of the island..

i also felt that kate was behind the reason hurley was there, she didn't seem as shocked as jack that they all just happened to be on the same plane...

hmm i didn't think jack's grandad looked too young, but frank sure did!!! i don't know if its just because he cleaned up and got rid of the beard and shaggy hair but wow what a difference...

what i want to know, is what this infection with danielle's ppl were about.. they mentioned it but didn't explain what it actually did.. i guess when her tropp went underground something happened to them, althought outwardly they didn't look any different

and... for some reason i get the notion that locke might be jack's brother??????? the fact that locke is so closely tied to jack's dad, and then they had to switch memorbilia and that locke never knew who his dad was.. humm..

and oh.me to your question about what happens to the other ppl on the plane, as ben quoted 'who cares' LOL i loved that!

[Guest damachee]

that was definitely an awesome episode in this season (all of them have been good). like the deja vu of this to the very first pilot episode of Lost eg. Jack at the airport counter. Sayid escorted by an agent like Kate.

and Ben is like the funniest character on the show with his calmness even though he gets into all kinds of sh!t.

Jack: What is going to happen to the other people on the plane? - Ben: Who cares.

Jack: How can you read? - Ben: My mother taught me.

I think we'll have to scrutinize Kate's motives from here on out: she's being coerced to work for Widmore. At this point, her actions could be motivated purely out of fear for the safety of Aaron, so long as he's in the clutches of Widmore - and she may even sacrifice the well-being of her fellow Losties to see to that end.

I think Widmore also has some men on that plane too, like that middle-eastern guy sitting opposite Hurley and giving condolences to Jack (like what Sayid said to Jack in the pilot). he seems to be a important character later in the show.

Maybe even Sayid's escort. However Kate's FBI escort died in the pilot episode, so she might have the same fate.

[Guest res0nate]

Pretty nice set-up episode.

[Guest HERMIT]

Jack: How can you read? - Ben: My mother taught me.

Which is all the more darkly humorous since his mom died in childbirth.

I think Widmore also has some men on that plane too, like that middle-eastern guy sitting opposite Hurley and giving condolences to Jack (like what Sayid said to Jack in the pilot). he seems to be a important character later in the show.

Maybe even Sayid's escort. However Kate's FBI escort died in the pilot episode, so she might have the same fate.

I agree with your suspicions. However, it's interesting to consider this 'spoiler' that a friend told me: The middle eastern guy is really a relative (maybe his brother?) of Sayid. Possibly tailing him to assure his safety. As to the validity of this spoiler, I can't vouch for since I haven't confirmed it myself.

But going back to what you said, yeah - the escort is probably a Widmore agent impersonating a federal marshal. For one thing, I don't think an extradition order can process that quickly for Sayid to already be placed on a plane out of the US. There's something fishy as to the swiftness of it all.