|WGM Chinese Version| We Are In Love - BF Choi Siwon |SUJU| and GF Liu Wen |Victoria Secret Model|

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

Great thoughts, Kculturefun.

Now, when I say the relationship may be a casual one, I don't mean casual in the sense that they're free to do anything they like while still considering themselves a couple. I rather think it may be casual in the sense that they're still in the very early stages of a relationship, there's no firm commitment to one another, and they're adopting a 'let's see where this goes' kind of approach. I certainly don't think they're madly in love and on the path to marriage which is what the accelerated scripted romance we saw on the show would have us believe.

That leads to my next point; if they're truly in love and serious about one another, they'd make more of an effort to see each other especially now when they're so close by. I know they're both busy, but I still think it's improbable that they can't find even the slightest bit of time to meet in person. I mean, Liu Wen has been in China for some time now and will be there until at least the end of the month, so there's really no excuse on her part. Of course, if they're in the sort of 'casual' relationship I mentioned earlier, there'd be no need to meet up and virtual communication (if that even occurs) would be sufficient.  

And since Siwon is doing all he can before his enlistment to keep himself 'fresh' to the public while he's gone, I think it likely he did the show to broaden and/or maintain his popularity base in China. He may have also wanted to meet someone and date openly, but I'm sure those were ancillary reasons. So, of course he won't confirm or deny the relationship (notice that he only ever mentions Liu Wen in China and never anywhere else) as that defeats the purpose of doing the show in the first place. As for Liu Wen, following Siwon's line is beneficial to her too.

Jiwon posting pics of Liu Wen on her IG? Like Siwon said, everyone loves Liu Wen and Jiwon's actions could be reflective of that sentiment. That she did it to make a statement about the relationship is veering into delulu territory. And neither of us might make a one-night stop in Seoul for only a friend, but this is Liu Wen we're talking about, and her willingness to do things like that may be why she's so lovable. As for Liu Wen looking happy in all her recent pics, could that be only because of Siwon? After all, the show has emboldened her and opened her up to the idea of being in love, so maybe that journey of self-discovery has brought her joy.

 

 

[liddi]

Thank you @Kculturefun and everyone else for your insightful thoughts. It's funny that I was just sharing my thoughts with someone (you know who you are ) about the current state of their relationship when this topic started. Anyway...

I believe that they are still going strong. Until the ridiculous Weibo "fan" behaviour, she has been glowing and extremely happy. Would she really be so (with so many ShiLiu hints leading up to it, including the time she was in NY) if they were not together. Their interactions post concert and his breadcrumbs even during the movie promotions say a lot. Their similarly styled posts after. 

So, for me, I think that they are real, constantly in touch, perhaps meeting up on the sly without us realising it (especially since she is in Asia until at least end of the month), and keeping it quiet without outright denying or announcing it. Reasons I can think of for doing so are several.

1. Privacy. They have had a short 2 months on the show. Finally now, away from the cameras, they are able to develop their relationship and decide how they want to proceed, with distance, their work and his upcoming enlistment, without everyone scrutinising their actions.

2. His upcoming enlistment. Like it or not, he has to be out of the public eye for 2 years. She already has been at the receiving end of hate from his fans even before this. If they announce now and there is a backlash on the part of his fandom or hers, he won't be able to be there and openly protect her against them. So keeping it quiet is protecting her from all the unwanted attention while he's away.

3. His group. They have said before how Sungmin's handling of his marriage was less than ideal. Siwon himself has spoken about being extremely careful not to affect SuJu. People think that SuJu will survive regardless, and that he should not have any concerns about his own career if he announces. I was remembering what happened when Teuk was in military service. He had no income during those two years, and as such, his father, already under tremendous stress looking after his aged parents, snapped under pressure... resulting in terrible tragedy. What people seem to forget is that SuJu is made up of members from very very different family backgrounds, and not all of them have as successful solo careers apart from the group, or are as financially secure. To take it out on Siwon for refusing to behave in a way that compromises the group, is to negate his character, one who cares deeply for the people around him, how much more his brothers. Which is why I firmly believe that Siwon and Teuk would have discussed how and when to handle the relationship and announcement, in a way that is best for her, the group and their fans. If anything, his very act of protecting his group, indicates how much more he would protect the woman he loves.

4. Time. They will definitely need time to build their relationship, and see how it fares through the enforced separation of enlistment. Much as their careers are extremely high-profile, I do not believe they would want their relationship to be exposed for the world to see, especially during the early stages, with so much difficulties ahead of them.

Certainly, it does them no good and wears them down emotionally and mentally if highstrung fans continue to bombard them with accusations of lying to them, or him not worthy of her etc. If anything, this does not advance the ship, but in the worst case scenario, could derail their relationship, assuming they allow themselves to be affected by such negativity and hate. Which is why, I am so glad that Liu Wen continues to block her Weibo comments.

[moonee]

Like many of us here, it got me a bit worried that they haven't met up lately and I really think if they don't meet up by his enlistment I would cast some doubts on the continuation of the relationship. I personally don't think you can maintain a relationship just by facetiming and texting each other, in all stages of a relationship. You would certainly find all opportunities to be with the other half, especially if you know it will be extremely difficult for you to see each other as often and as freely soon.

 Having said that, I do believe they are still in the a relationship, perhaps not to the stage where they would discuss about marriage but surely they are well over the getting to know each other stage and comfortable in each other's company. One could argue they had only known each other for merely 2 months after the show ended but considering their ages, EQ, IQ, working environment and worldly experiences, 2 months is an amber time to get to know somebody, to understand their feelings, to know what you expect  from a relationship and whether you would like to progress further. I agree that we shouldn't read too much into their social network postings and not all their posts are remotely related to the other person but definitely they wouldn't have posted all the things so closely related to the show and the other person if they weren't in a relationship (ie she with the skydiving, swimming, riding bycicle videos/photos and he with the the 'man can't live without love' as 6th post of the day and the 'shy shy' collages as the 16th post). They surely couldn't be all coincidences as they are well aware that fans analyse every random thing they post, let alone those indicative and telling ones. Personally I believe LW & SW certainly wouldn't have done those just for fan services or publicity because the flashbacks have proved to far outweigh any possible gains. 

[Guest mywebfoot]

The pressures are real:

http://www.soompi.com/2015/08/16/super-juniors-shindong-and-model-kang-shi-nae-have-broken-up/

ShinDong is doing his Military Service at the moment. Maybe this is why Sung Min wanted to marry his girlfriend before MS. No matter what people vow to do as a couple, making a public and specific commitment that is a wedding vow, does help get a couple through the tough times, I believe. I wonder what it's like to be SiWon, seriously. Right there in the group are two members, embodying the two opposing paths to take when in a relationship and facing MS. Of course, the problem is rushing things and making a mistake too. What a decision.

If I were him, I'd keep it as an honest, 'something' relationship, and in two years time, come out, properly woo her, and seal the deal. 

 

[siwonie407]

didnt know that shindong has model girlfriend, if im not wrong he was in relationship with "nari" (dont know her family name) 

i kinda like sungmin's decision...whatever fans say he did it already

hoping siwon take right decision in right time so fans wont bashing him either his girlfriend

 

[Guest FatimaJelenko]

 

[Guest atky]

mod edit: please do not quote images!

I'm pretty sure ive seen him wear this sweater before! Is this an old or new photo posted by seoyeon?

[siwonie407]

they're look similar with this sweater

siwon's new hair style...he looks younger

 

[sj08_stv]

Siwon is known for his stealth skills. Not even ELF-ninjas can trace him. He even played "catch me if you can" with ELFs before. In addition, he used to go to NY to visit someone without ELFs noticing

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

Siwon is known for his stealth skills. Not even ELF-ninjas can trace him. He even played "catch me if you can" with ELFs before. In addition, he used to go to NY to visit someone without ELFs noticing

Really? I suppose they could go incognito in NY, but everyone's trying to spot them as a couple these days that I'd imagine some random Asian would recognize them on the street and there'd be a Tweet about it or something. Even Liu Wen, who doesn't have ELFs trailing her every move, can't hide; that's how we know she's been in Beijing recently. If they were to meet for an extended period of time from now until his enlistment, it must be likely we'll get wind of it; heck, if they're even in the same country at the same time, we'd probably hear of it!

And I don't know, I still can't shake the feeling that we've been had...like with the trinkets, for example. I know it's ridiculous to think that just because they aren't spotted wearing their couple gifts these days that the romance is over, but it's suspicious that they seemed to have them on all the time only while the show was still running. Now that the show is over, zilch; how timely, how convenient! And when I learned that Liu Wen still has an endorsement deal with Tiffany's...

There's also Siwon telling that reporter to ask Liu Wen to watch his film and help promote it; that makes it sound like they're hardly in contact at all. I suppose he could be joking, but why do so if he is in constant contact with her? I don't think they're in as close contact as we think they are, and again, people are still reading way too much into what they post on their social media accounts.

 

[augustwentie]

@allnaturalcrunchtime_stv - @sj08_stv was mentioning another person who also lives in NY not Liu Wen :'D I guess it was Stella Kim but well I can't assume, just sure that it's not LW. As for many people already said, we don't know what are they thinking/doing so I guess we can just think that they keep in touch with each other so that thought could ease our hearts  

[moonee]

@allnaturalcrunchtime_stv I partially share your sentiment regarding to the T bracelets, especially after I learnt that LW is still contracting with Tiffany. Not that everyone has to showcase their couple items (I don't even wear my wedding band), but I did feel weird about the timing of their disappearance. Well perhaps they don't wear it anymore because they don't want to LW to be critisised for using the show to promote the brand she is endorsing now? 

However, in relation to SW's response to questions regarding to his relationship with LW during To the Fore promotion tour, it's best if we don't read to much into it. After all it could be him being playful when answering the question. Anyway he wasn't there for an individual interview and trust me, countless Asian celebrity couples said they didn't know each other that well and were purely working partners right before they were ousted as a couple. 

[Guest atky]

I think there could be another possibility to the bracelets. They prolly did not want to go public with their relationship. I mean, even we scrutinize pictures to see whether they're wearing it and such. And to add to this, Siwon used to wear the blue beaded bracelet one of his Suju members gave to him before this as well and now he doesn't and from reading this forum, wasn't that an important bracelet for him as well? So I don't think both of them not wearing their bracelets is something to be concerned about.

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

@allnaturalcrunchtime_stv - @sj08_stv was mentioning another person who also lives in NY not Liu Wen :'D I guess it was Stella Kim but well I can't assume, just sure that it's not LW. As for many people already said, we don't know what are they thinking/doing so I guess we can just think that they keep in touch with each other so that thought could ease our hearts  

Yeah, I know who he/she is referring to.  Ever since they've known each other, if people got wind of Siwon surreptitiously flying to NY while Liu Wen is there, I think this thread would explode.

@allnaturalcrunchtime_stv I partially share your sentiment regarding to the T bracelets, especially after I learnt that LW is still contracting with Tiffany. Not that everyone has to showcase their couple items (I don't even wear my wedding band), but I did feel weird about the timing of their disappearance. Well perhaps they don't wear it anymore because they don't want to LW to be critisised for using the show to promote the brand she is endorsing now? 

However, in relation to SW's response to questions regarding to his relationship with LW during To the Fore promotion tour, it's best if we don't read to much into it. After all it could be him being playful when answering the question. Anyway he wasn't there for an individual interview and trust me, countless Asian celebrity couples said they didn't know each other that well and were purely working partners right before they were ousted as a couple. 

I don't expect them to wear the gifts all the time either, but I remember when the show was still on...it seemed like in every off-screen snap of them, the trinkets were there, firmly in place. Now...nada. I rather think if they were always wearing them while the show was on air it was because Liu Wen has an endorsement deal with Tiffany's, and now that the promotional tie-in has run its course, there's no need to wear them any more.

I suppose evidence can always be read as either for the relationship or against it; it just depends on where your sympathies lie, I guess.   

[Kculturefun]

Topic: What's your view on Liuwen blocking comments on WeiBo and lack of IG updates?

It was said that many of her weibo comments are around 1) people "advising" what she should do with her love life 2) bashing siwon, so that is reason she blocked the comments....  Feels like she has had it with all the comments and she wants to tune all of these out... Question: does she have an alternative to blocking the comments?  She has been blocking for over a week now... 

She is barely posting on either weibo or IG

without getting into how celebrities use social media,  what's you hypothesis on Liuwen's decision on blocking comments and lack of posts lately (Tianjin maybe  factor, but should not be all...)  

Do you think she is resetting how she might use social media in the future?

 

[iamenn]

I love how she naps with that humongous bear by her side..

 

[teamsongsong]

I want to think their relationship is quite promising or else Siwon and Liu Wen wouldn't publicly repost things that contain each other - that would just be cruel of them to keep stringing us shippers along, right?!  

[iamenn]

Random trivia.. So if any one wants the join the Big 3 agencies they should take note of this

http://www.koreaboo.com/trending/types-faces-preferred-sm-yg-jyp/

 

I want to think their relationship is quite promising or else Siwon and Liu Wen wouldn't publicly repost things that contain each other - that would just be cruel of them to keep stringing us shippers along, right?!  

mod edit: please do not quote images!

Plus, liu wen liking some of Mun+Won's posts of them speaks a lot. 

This is so cute ..

#JiWen CP

 

[Guest fantastica1234]

Hi everyone

Since we are a mature and analytical bunch, shall we do a quick MECE (mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive).  So here is mine

1. SW/LW in a casua relationship - to me, this is very unlikely.  LW does not do casual, otherwise she probably has had many relationships before. Also she seems to be a serious person in general. I give this 5% probability 

2. They are in a relationship - if we believe some of the hard to script moments during the show, SW's exr and Bazaar interview, LW's attendance at SJ concert (I wouldn't put myself through all tha traveling hassle just for a friend, there are other visible ways to support friends, e.g. Weibo and IG posts), her weibo posts during early August, I doubt she would expos herself if she did not feel secure in a relationship (evidenced by her unwillingness to tell SW she liked him because she was not sure if he was serious).  The list can go on but I will stop here. But the biggest problem with this scenario in my mind is that it SEEMs that they have not seen each other lately despite they are not too far from each other.  Seoul to BJ is about a 3 hour plane ride, it is less than a train ride fr NYC to Boston.  If they can arrange to spare 24 hour window I would think people in a relationship would meet. I once traveled 26 hours round trip to be withy now husband for less than 24 hours.  It is possible that they managed to meet without fans finding out, LW went from HK to BJ without being noticed... I know it is harder for SW but not impossible.  I have changed from an amused onlooker to a hard shipper, so I really hope our ship is afloat.  I will give 70% to this scenario.

3.  They are not in a relationship.  Mainly due to lack of known meeting up.

I really don't know what to say here. Although there is clear upside for being ambiguous about the relationship to keep the 16 fans happy, why would someone put themselves through all the criticism, fan backslash... Plus Compared to ELF, 16 fan base is a lot smaller...  Also they BOTH will be running the risk of leading the fans on ... As I said before, they have had multiple opportunities to come clean and make their image enhanced and intact... Additionally why Liuwen would do something like this to herself? It is not like she is getting more fans...

one detail it is confirmed by the article that SW was going to go back to Korea on 11th but he left a day earlier, too many possibilities here... We don't know what contributed to this schedule change, but the fact remains that he did not get a chance to see LW...  So 25% for this scenario?

Whats your point of view?

btw. People who work with LW this past week commented she is busy working and seemed happy and to be in a good mood.

I have a different interpretation based on what I read from weibo and instagram, but I cannot really prove anything. I am tossing it out as it is my contribution to MECE (mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive) here.

My take is that they are still in a relationship right now judging by their happy expressions, but there was some sort of misunderstanding right around Aug. 8, 2015.  On her Instagram, I saw a picture of dark clouds and Liu Wen's words were 2015/8/8 and a fallen star icon.   At first, I didn't notice the words or the icon, but then when I went to think more about it, 8 plus 8 are 16, but here 16 is divided/separated and a falling star sign is shown.  Since the couple is referred as the 16 couple and Liu Wen is Siwon's lost star, I feel that Liu Wen's choice here is quite telling.  

Siwon's Aug. 8 posting shows his movie promotional activity in Hong Kong, but the next day, his Aug. 9 posting shows that he looked away into the sky and the quote "A flower cannot blossom without sunshine, and man cannot live without love."     I believe, at this point, Siwon probably has begun to sense something was wrong in his relationship with Liu Wen--it could be that Liu Wen refused to contact him or showed some other behaviors that he interpreted as that he has lost his love.

I have gone back to look at Liu Wen's last weibo posting and comments before she closed her comment function (Aug. 8) and I saw a long letter comment that is particularly attention-getting as many people liked it.  The poster scanned the letter in as an image and in this letter, she referred to herself as someone who is much older than Liu Wen and advised Liu Wen to look at this relationship sensibly.  She basically said that she is a fan of the couple, but she loves Liu Wen more.  She listed a few reasons that Siwon is not particularly talented in singing, dancing, or acting, and at best, only a hard-working person and is not worthy of Liu Wen's talent and status.  What is most damaging in her letter, I think, is that she mentioned Ou-Yang Na Na, the 15-year-old pretty costar, who Siwon has previously been quoted as saying that "he will wait for her for 6 years.".  According to this poster, during the promotional itinerary, Siwon has been seen to hug Na Na frequently, which surpassed the normal range, and Siwon has said something like "she has a beautiful heart." during the press conference.  The poster said that she was totally disheartened by this exactly same comment as she was previously very moved by Siwon's similar comment of Liu Wen when he was interviewed in Beijing. How could Siwon go around saying this girl has a beautiful heart and that girl has a beautiful heart?  She said that despite that Ou Yang Na Na is only 15 years old, she could be another "Liu Yi-fei" to Siwon as Song Seung Hun is only 11 years older than Liu Yi-fei and Siwon is only 13 years older than Na Na.  All in all, she suggested that their relationship has a lot of hidden hazards because they live far apart and reunite infrequently, and that people in the entertainment industry are likely to be roiled in scandals. Even if Siwon is a loyal partner, the rumors would still be annoying and bothersome for Liu Wen. Finally, she suggested that Liu Wen should select someone low-profile and live a peaceful, happy life as her Miss World friend Zi-Ling Zhang.

When I first read this letter, I was actually quite taken as well as it was very well-written and makes a lot of sense. I can imagine Liu Wen being affected by it and beginning to reflect on it.  It seems to be coming from someone who really cares about Liu Wen's welfare and has a mature outlook about life. What she said about Ou-yang Na Na definitely strikes a chord as well since she said there is something ambiguous in Siwon's 2014 Weibo comment of "I will wait for you for 6 years." (till Nana is old enough to be in a love relationship.)  However, when I got a chance to see the Youtube clip of this press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPlIpq03UQ, I can see that perhaps due to his limited Chinese vocabulary, Siwon did a poor job of clarifying his earlier comment by adding that he thinks Nana has a beautiful personality and heart.  He may be joking or had some real intentions when he posted the comment last year before he met Liu Wen.  Either way, during the press conference, it is clear that he is caught off guard by this questioning and didn't explain too well.

I guess that Liu Wen must have felt really hurt and disappointed in Siwon after reading this letter.  A few days before, she was all happy and posted many pictures related to their happy memories, but all of a sudden, she was pulled into reality.  The cautionary words in the letter must have got her thinking and she chose to not contact Siwon at all.  Siwon therefore went into overdrive to appeal to her by posting many things related to 16 couple.  In the end of their promotion, he returned to Korea one day early without meeting up with Liu Wen probably because Liu Wen refused to contact him and closed her Weibo comment function too (this is consistent with her behavior of walking away during ep. 2 in the cherry blossom park when she thought that Siwon was a womanizer.)  

After Aug. 9, Siwon's postings said that "Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced" and "Life's warrior needs to pay tuition as well to gain precious things in life,  The longer the wait, the more learning to be gained and perspectives of life become more broadened.".  On Aug. 13, when he had a film festival with another female celebrity walking down the red carpet, his movements seemed to be extra strained without going arm in arm with the female celebrity. I think by now, he was aware of what potential reasons Liu Wen has for shutting him off and became more sensitive than usual.  His later posting of "Long day, good night" also shows him looking quite beat and sad.  For his posting "waiting for something special", I interpret that he was waiting to communicate (face time) with Liu Wen perhaps some time that night or the next morning (Friday).  When he finally cleared things up with her and they made up, he appeared to be happy and relaxed the next day in the Pharrell Williams concert and coincidentally, Liu Wen also appeared to be happy in another person's picture on the same day. 

Either way, their relationship is still pretty young and bound to have some conflicts down the road.  Considering the potential damages brought up by well-wishers or nay-sayers from outside, I believe that they both prefer not to announce anything and let time take its course now.  I believe that the love they have shown in the show is real and the memory cannot be so easily erased and forgotten, but the reality (time, distance and career) does pose real challenges, so mature people like them may prefer to take it slow and carry on the love affair away from public attention.

This is really my little theory and I have no way of proving it, but I guess no one else other than Liu Wen and Siwon themselves can prove it either. Sorry about the long post.

Edited August 19, 2015 by fantastica1234
Adding something

[Guest atky]

I want to think their relationship is quite promising or else Siwon and Liu Wen wouldn't publicly repost things that contain each other - that would just be cruel of them to keep stringing us shippers along, right?!  

mod edit: please do not quote images!

I think the fact that he would post this and her liking munwon's posts at least shows that they are on really good terms.