For the guys who complain about girls expecting them to pay for most dates

[Guest chocc]

I notice there are quite a few guys on here who complain about girls expecting them to pay for most dates. These guys say "Why do girls want equal rights and yet they expect guys to pay for them om most dates? That is not fair". Well guess what, women wanting equal rights the same as men is in front of the law. It protects the women in front of the law. However, women wanting men to pay for most dates has nothing to do with the law. It has to do with evolution. Women want men who have social status with wealth because then these men can provide for the children. Paying for dates is an indication that the man want to invest in her. Men who are stingy are less attractive because it seems like they don't want to invest in the relationship.

Evolution wise, men want women who are young and pretty. Men complain about women wanting them to pay for most dates, but women can complain too about how men always want women who are young and pretty. And why is it that when a man sleeps around with woman, he is called a "stud" while a woman who does that are called sl*ts and wh*res? that's not fair to the woman either now, is it.

Plus, even though women and men have "equal rights", men on average still earn much more than women.

Men who are stingy and complain about how it ain't fair that women expect them to pay for most dates...well lemme tell you, it ain't all just give and no take. Men also expect things from women. It's all evolution, it has nothing to do with the law. So quit complaining about how it ain't fair that women expect them to pay for most dates like a stingy whiner.

[flysolo.]

I think most men are okay with paying it's just that it becomes a standard everytime we go out. The girl argument is that "if you take me to the movies ill buy the coffee after" Why can't men buy the coffee and the girl pay for the movie? And when we do bring it up some people think it's cheap.

But it's really not, it's actually logical but that's normally not how it's observed.

Now a days when I take a girl out for dinner and when it's time to pay, they just stand there without saying anything expecting me to pay. I'm okay with paying, but girls take it as a norm which is what I don't like. If any women is willing to pay, I'd say no and be happy with paying but that's rarely there anymore. Show some respect when men are paying because men will respect a women when she pays

Hope this made sense to you, we're not ATM machines. Show a bit more than just a light "thanks"

[Guest severus]

It's makes no sense to look for someone with the idea of a "provider" in mind anymore because we can easily provide for ourselves if we work hard enough. Like you said "men expect" things from women because they're expected to pay, but honey when we carry our weight, we get the right to "expect things" too.

[Guest showoff]

I dislike it when people (men and women) are agreeable with traditional gender roles only when it directly benefits them.  That's probably the worst form of sexism around.

EDIT:  To the OP's point though, have you ever considered that the man not wanting to pay for your date isn't a sign that he's cheap/stingy, but rather, you simply aren't worth it?  I understand it's much easier to blame the man for being a "stingy whiner" if he doesn't want to pay for you, but have you given any thought as to "why" he doesn't want to pay?  Him being stingy is definitely a possibility, but not the only possibility.

[Guest Rekidai]

I have always offered to pay for dinner or at least half :S and the guy always refuses and pays. I just say thank you afterwards. I think it is becoming the norm where the girl expects the man to pay. I hate that, I just feel like they are seeing how much can the guy provide for them.

[Guest showoff]

chocc said:

So quit complaining about how it ain't fair that women expect them to pay for most dates like a stingy whiner.

[Mannosuke]

It's fair to say that because women have to bear the offspring, men should be expected to pay for her.There should never be gender equality simply because women are the ones that carry on the family, not the men.

[Guest rickertv2]

I always pay for dates...unless the girl did something horrendously wrong.

[Guest showoff]

Mannosuke said: It's fair to say that because women have to bear the offspring, men should be expected to pay for her.There should never be gender equality simply because women are the ones that carry on the family, not the men.

[Guest tony83]

showoff said: chocc said:

So quit complaining about how it ain't fair that women expect them to pay for most dates like a stingy whiner.

[Guest tony83]

Mannosuke said: It's fair to say that because women have to bear the offspring, men should be expected to pay for her.There should never be gender equality simply because women are the ones that carry on the family, not the men.

[Guest showoff]

I'm curious where these women get these ideas from.  Parents?  Media?  Friends?  I'm a father of two young girls, 9 and 12, and I can't imagine a scenario where I would ever tell my children, "dearest daughters, because one day you will be nothing more than a baby incubator, you are within your rights to expect your man to pay your way through life".

I honestly want to know where/what caused this line of thinking in women.  It's ironic that women don't want to be objectified by men, but they will objectify themselves if it means being taken care of financially by a man.

EDIT:  To the OP: http://freakonomics.com/2007/10/09/the-economics-of-gold-digging/

[MrPower]

Take a step back, and look at the big picture.

People will adopt and support values that benefit them the most. It's an quite a selfish mindset, but nearly all of us are guilty of it. We play different cards to get what we want, and complain when others do the same. I don't understand the petty mindset of entitlement that men and women have for one another, but that doesn't mean I don't play the game as well.

We're all playing with our respective hands in this poker game, and just because others play differently doesn't mean we have grounds to hate. Don't like the table? Cut your losses, and fold. Still want to play? Ante up, and match the bets, but don't be a sore loser if you end up with nothing. We all play the game understanding the risks and rules, but if you don't understand them, sit out until you do. Better yet, play a different game.

[azurette]

@showoff... cringe x 999.
If the guy doesn't want to pay for the girl because she may not be worth it, that's already a red flag for her to GTFO and not waste a second more of her time. So a guy doesn't want to pay for any first dates... is he showing her off the bat that he's not really interested in pursuing or possibly dating her? That just sounds harsh...
And if you left a chick with your portion of the bill especially without warning, no offense but you'd seriously be a huge pathetic loser who shouldn't even be allowed to date. Guys who do stuff like that are so disgustingly pathetic, selfish and shameless with no manners or consideration. I'm sure you'd be livid if someone did this to your kids. Nobody should be forced against their will to pay someone else's part of the bill, cuz you can't just dine and dash and all.

Not all women who expect guys to pay for dates are gold diggers with no career aspirations who want to be stay-at-home-moms thinking it's the easy way out. I think guys should want to pay for dates most, if not all of the time, but I am not a gold digger who refuses to contribute to anything, and yes I am in a serious, co-habitating happy relationship.

[azurette]

ajlee613 said: the principle that a woman is willing to lift her own weight shows something special. also, if she is SERIOUS about the relationship (marriage thoughts) she would understand that my money, if wasted, will just be less money for our family later on, and thus she would be very thoughtful of what i spend on her. its very rare to find a girl who thinks this way, but it shows she is wife material. 

[MiDnite89]

And if you left a chick with your portion of the bill especially without warning, no offense but you'd seriously be a huge pathetic loser who shouldn't even be allowed to date. Guys who do stuff like that are so disgustingly pathetic, selfish and shameless with no manners or consideration. I'm sure you'd be livid if someone did this to your kids. Nobody should be forced against their will to pay someone else's part of the bill, cuz you can't just dine and dash and all.

Cool. Now flip the scenario, and it's the norm 90% of the time. A girl will literally look at you to pay, without lifting a finger. It's why I chuckle when people look down upon paying for escorts, like they would never pay for sex in their life. Sex is never free. There's a saying, "Free sex is the most expensive sex in the world" 

[azurette]

MiDnite89 said:
Cool. Now flip the scenario, and it's the norm 90% of the time. A girl will literally look at you to pay, without lifting a finger. It's why I chuckle when people look down upon paying for escorts, like they would never pay for sex in their life. Sex is never free. There's a saying, "Free sex is the most expensive sex in the world" 

[Guest showoff]

If the girl had a crappy attitude on the date and gave off a "you're a stingy whiner, so quit complaining and pay for me" vibe (see the OP for an idea of what I'm talking about), HELL YEAH I'd stick that trick with the bill.
Also, if not paying is a "red flag", fine, but that wasn't my point.  My point was that a man not wanting to pay doesn't mean he's a "stingy whiner" as @chocc claims; there are other plausible reasons why he didn't want to pay for you... one of which is that you simply aren't worth it.
EDIT:  Full disclosure, I've always paid for every date.  I've been fortunate enough to come across pretty cool women that at least offered to split/get the tip; I politely declined, told them not to even think about it, and paid for our meal in full because I enjoyed the date and time spent with her.  The attitude they conveyed is drastically different than the OP's "quit complaining and pay up!" attitude... hence, a completely different reaction by me. EDIT2:  @azurette, it is no more the "duty" of the man to pay for the woman's way than it is the "duty" of the woman to give the man her body whenever he wants it.  What decade are you from?

[Roasty]

ajlee613 said:where have u heard a guy ever say "i dont think girls should be allowed to vote or go to school" on these forums? never... but girls should do the house work, clean, be traditionally womanly, if she expects the man to be a traditional man. the man opens doors, pays for dates, does the heavy lifting, does the driving etc. the woman cooks, cleans, does non-heavy lifting house work, does what she can to ease the stress the man has from earning money to pay for her way. this is equality under the law, but it is obviously not equal in a cultural level. one could argue this is balance, but "separate but equal" didn't work back in civil rights, and it doesnt work here. you cant separate the roles of male and female and be culturally equal. 

[Guest showoff]

esapele said:In regards to guys paying for dates.  Personally, I used to feel bad when a guy offered to pay, so I would offer to pay as well.  But each and every time, without hesitation, they always ended up paying anyways.  These days, girls are just to used to the 'idea' that by default a guy pays for dates for some reason.
I think from reading some comments, the point that most guys are trying to make here is, not that they wont ever pay for a date.  They will.  But they would like the courtesy and respect from a girl to have at least the decency to offer, cause this shows to the guy, that the girl is thinking beyond, just superficial thoughts of whether or not the guy is stingy or just financially unstable.
I understand all girls want financial stability in their lives, they will always be attracted to guys who can provide that for them, heck I am like that.  But guys will only give that stability to a girl they deem who is not superficial and is worthy of that financial support.  So girls if you want a guy to have some sort of respect for you, don't expect them to pay.  Yes its nice when they do, but at least show them you are not a shallow superficial girl who only cares about money.  Show them that you are more then that and they may decide you are worth more as well. Its as simple as that.