LOST

[Guest CK92842]

Considering a few members may be on different time zones, I'll let it sink in for those of us in the east coast before asking some questions about the season finale. Btw, who could've saw that ending coming.

[Guest 1S0ULL]

That was frickin AWESOME .

OMG . O__O

That was a crazy episode =OOOOOOO

How long do we have to wait for the next season D: ?

I still can't believe __________ was the one in the coffin O___O

[Guest EricXL]

what a crazyawesomelongepicmindblowingconfusing finale!

really... i'm left kinda dazed and i don't know what's going on but it's okay!

o_________o

THIS is why i love lost.

[sweetcream]

SPOILERS!

Cause it was crazy good and I need to rant about the finale haha.

Ben! omfg, that guy ceases to amaze me. Stabbing Keamy and moving the island. Wow.

I didn't like Keamy, but he was good at being fierce and the actor who played him was hot. lol

They should explain more about Richard. He's pretty creepy.

I didn't think Jin would really die. Felt so sad for Sun and he was one of my fave characters. =(

I like Desmond so I'm glad he's with Penny now, but she's gotta watch her back cause ya know.

It was cool to see Walt again. He really has grown. Michael seeing Christian, a sign of death?

Actually everyone who sees Christian seems to die, like John?

Why is Locke's name Jeremy Bentham? And why was he off the island?

I'm glad Sawyer's alive too, but what did he whisper to Kate?

So...checkmate Mr. Eko. I like when Hurley's straightforwad, like on the raft boat.

And I hope they show more of Miles. "I'm keeping my eye on you shorty." lol

Anybody spot that Octagon Global Recruiting commercial?

http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/

[Guest asdfjkl;fdsajkl;]

omg. thats like all i ever say everytime i finish watching lost. but srsly why the hell was

locke

in that coffin.

and

JINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

i loveddd that guy

[Guest CONSTANCE]

THAT EPISODE WAS SO INTENSE! OMGOSH ..

what the freaking moley just happened????

i cant believe he was the one in the coffin, why is his name jeremy bentham though?

ahhhhh WHENS THE NEXT SEASON?! freaking this is soo why i love Lost

and JIN! omgosh, i cant believe he died that way .. so sad .. ;[

his wife was screaming like crazy ahh sooo sooo sad ..

one of my favorite characters too!

i seriously didnt see that pacemaker and the c54 connection coming at all

so freaking intense .. wow wow wow wow!

HERMIT! WHAT IS YOUR ANALYSIS ON THIS FINALE? LOL

youre soo good with these deep analysis and stuff

so glad youre active on this thread

without you, i think i really would have been lost in Lost ;D

[Guest dudeman]

...OK, I REALLY don't get anything now, HAHAHAHA.

Thing is, the person in the coffin certainly was a prediction a lot of fans made (albeit without much reasoning behind it), but given what we've seen of that character now, it's hard to really validate that prediction. I don't know anymore...damn, this sucks...

Jeremy Bentham? HAHAHAHAHA. That was so random that I burst out laughing right when Kate said it. I was so totally expecting a familiar name and right when she says that, I was like, WTF?! Jeremy Bentham...how the hell did they come up with a name like Jeremy Bentham?

Get 'em all together? That's gonna be a real pinkberry now, ain't it Jack?

I actually almost felt sorry for Ben...no, scratch that, I really felt sorry for Ben. It's really hard to lose something you've had part of your life for so long and that you can never have again.

Oh Christian...what are we going to do with you? Your presence is so frustrating that it's actually becoming quite hilarious every time you pop up in the most random places.

Well, I'm glad they finally got off. Now let's hurry up and get back to it. (Which I think won't happen for a while.)

[Guest midst]

All I can say was this was the best Lost episode by far.

I cried so much when the boat exploded and Jin was still on it.

However it is possible to conclude that Jin may still be alive.

Boy, Walt sure has grown up.

The ending was superb, better than superb.

Jeremy Bentham aka. Locke has visited Walt, Hurley, Kate and Jack.

I get the feeling that Locke is still very much alive, maybe it's the constant issue (?) in this case.

I wonder if Kate will go back to the island or not.

Either way if she were to take Aaron, Claire would visit haunt her if she did.

I wonder why Jack is not trying to be part of Aaron's life, I mean he technically is his uncle.

I loved how the producers brought back the topic of Dharma. I've been waiting all season for that.

A BIG question here is whether the (Daniel's) boat made it back to the island in time.

Also Charlotte was born on the island?!

My heart went out to Sawyer when he jumped off the helicopter and when he went on the island to see the smoke from the boat, he must of thought Kate and the others died.

You know when Kate was on the phone with the "mysterious" person and Jack found out, got all agro and started saying "He stayed behind blah blah blah..." what Kate really talking to Sawyer? She mentioned doing something for him. My theory is that she was doing something for him related to his daughter. I don't know...

Sorry I went from one topic to another.

Just really spazzy at the moment

[Guest graceyoon]

lol i know!!! oh man i cant wait till january *sobs

jeremy bentham hahahahah i was thinking, oh its just some random dude in the coffin? LOL

i thought locke's first name was john?

anyway what happened to the ppl on the other boat, that small one that sayid had taken at the beginnig to transport ppl.. i guess they perished in the fire?

o man, i also thought when ben asked had he visited u, i thought he meant widmore.. and that widmore had told jack that the island had gone upside down leading to locke's demise, since widmore was probably the one who did it!

anyways it was ok, i derno the ending was awesome but i think the 2 hours that led up to it was sorta laggy

[Guest HeffyEnd]

anyway what happened to the ppl on the other boat, that small one that sayid had taken at the beginnig to transport ppl.. i guess they perished in the fire?

Probably. When Jin was trying to get the helicopter to come back, I think I also saw some people running with life jackets, so they might have jumped in the water.

I wonder where Dan will end up. He's just floating in the water with a bunch of random people without a boat or an island to get to.

And Juliet, Sawyer, Rose, Bernard, Miles and Charlotte are just gonna stay on the beach for 3 years without Jack & co.? I wonder what happens with Locke? ..And now we have to wait until January or February!

I guess we'll see a lot more flash forwards/off island bits since most of the main characters aren't on the island anymore.

Lockes totally coming back to life once they get back to the island, whenever that is. Maybe Jacks dad actually did come back to life then. The island brings recently deceased people back to life if they didn't die on the island...? /theory

My brother thinks that Claire is dead and she actually died in the house explosion a few episodes ago. I dunno, the whole thing with her is pretty interesting though.

Only 32 (or 34?) episodes left in the series! Can you feel it?!

p.s. DESMOND & PENNY 4EVAR! <3

Edit: I told some people a few weeks ago that I was waiting for a Sayid vs. Keamy! That was totally hot!

[Guest HERMIT]

HERMIT! WHAT IS YOUR ANALYSIS ON THIS FINALE? LOL

youre soo good with these deep analysis and stuff

so glad youre active on this thread

without you, i think i really would have been lost in Lost ;D

Aw, thanks. :blush:

But I'm just a fan like yourself and I guess I like shows that have a compelling enough plot such as LOST that actually challenges you to not only watch but really digest what it was you just saw. There are a plethora of LOST fan boards to peruse online. There are a lot more fanatical yet insightful and super-observant people that watch this show. I'm hardly that well-versed in the folklore of LOST as some of these viewers.

***NOTE: With the finale now already come and gone, I didn't bother to spoiler font the rest of this post. But if you still haven't seen the finale, please don't continue on****

They should explain more about Richard. He's pretty creepy.

I agree and believe that his character should have a beefier presence in next season's storyline. With Ben now off the island and Locke now the presumptive 'leader' of the Others, it would seem apparent that Locke's implied interaction with his 'new friends' would explicitly require Richard to 'show him the ropes', so to speak. So we should see more of him and perhaps get some detailed background information in the form of an episode/flashback/flashforward dedicated to his character.

I don't necessarily find Richard Alpert creepy, but actually intriguing in the sense that he's been on the same page as Ben on a lot of things but doesn't seem to have that real leadership role. As we've seen in the finale, Ben leaves and it seems like Richard is happy to welcome Locke "home" as the presumed new leader. Why doesn't he just assume that role? That's what's got me curious.

I didn't think Jin would really die. Felt so sad for Sun and he was one of my fave characters. =( ...... Michael seeing Christian, a sign of death?

Regarding this issue, I'm hopeful too that Jin is still alive. After all, he was on deck and as the explosion occured, I could see the writers incorporating some sort of 'escape' sequence in which Jin was perhaps in a shielded position from the initial blast, jumped overboard in the nick of time, and then survived in the open water holding on to some wreckage as a flotation device. I'm a fan of the Sun-Jin storyline and I too am hopeful that something miraculous like this would be revealed by show's end. As for Michael, we know that he could not kill himself because "the island would not let him". So if the apparition of Christian could be interpreted as the Island speaking directly to Michael, then being told "you can go now" just indicates to me that Michael served his purpose and he could die now. That's how I'm interpreting it and given Michael's close proximity to the explosives themselves, I can't see how he could plausibly survive that. Of course, this is just my logical side speaking - but supernatural forces aside, I can't see Michael miraculously reappearing somewhere alive and well. Like Dr. Arzt at the Black Rock, he's a goner.

Why is Locke's name Jeremy Bentham? And why was he off the island?

I'm glad Sawyer's alive too, but what did he whisper to Kate?

In regards to Locke, he's like Michael or Walt in that he was not a confirmed Oceanic 815 survivor. And just like these two, he most probably had to assume an alternate identity so as to not attract the attention of Charles Widmore and his agents. Remember that videotape that Ben showed where his Other agent got captured off-island and got the crap beat out of him by Widmore? Surely anybody with any association with the Island would think twice about advertising that fact, never mind using their own real name. As to why he was off the island, Ben alludes to a possible answer in the finale showdown with Jack at Locke's coffin. As Ben stipulated, something went wrong on the Island and it could be implied that whatever predicament that occurred there after the Oceanic 6 left, it must have been something that Locke could not handle on his own. Hence, he had to see fit to actually leave the Island and seek out the help of all the Oceanic 6 and have them return. Perhaps each of the Oceanic 6 has a role to play and they each have respective "work yet to be done". But tragically, Locke failed in his mission and it ended in his death. When Sayid came to spring Hurley out of the mental hospital, he also alluded to Locke's death. He stated that Bentham's death was reported as a "suicide" and Sayid sounds like he doesn't believe it. This is just speculation on my part, but my guess is that Widmore and his minions might have gotten wise to Locke's presence in the real world, hunted him down, likely tried to pump him for Island info, and then had him killed and staged it as a suicide.

As for what Sawyer said to Kate, it was obvious that he had the intention of jumping off the helicopter and that there existed the possibility that he was foresaking his own rescue to benefit the others in making it out on the helicopter. So whatever he said, it probably had to do with asking Kate to do him a "favor" if she should make it back out to the real world and he wouldn't. And this "favor" is reflected in those secretive phone calls that Kate was having behind Jack's back in the flash-forward when those two were engaged and shacking up together. The current popular theory is that Sawyer asked Kate to look after Clementine - the daughter that he never met and had with his fellow con-artist girlfriend from the past (whose name I can't remember atm, unfortunately). He had a huge sum of money that he obtained in a prison deal that lowered his sentence and was freed - which he had set aside specifically under the name of his daughter. He probably asked Kate to see to it that the money got to Clementine and that she's well-taken care of.

Anybody spot that Octagon Global Recruiting commercial?

http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/

Haha, yeah I saw that. The funny thing is that I live in San Diego. Given the stated dates of recruitment, it's obviously planned around the time of Comic-Con. Producers Carlton Cuse, Damon Lindelof, and some actors of the show make appearances and it's always a much anticipated and popular event within that convention. I was there last year and we were the first to see the famous "Orchid" video and we also were treated to an appearance by Harold Perrineau (who plays "Michael").

I'm sure this Octagon Global Recruiting commercial is just something to help promote their upcoming Comic-con appearance and probably be some introduction to a new interactive game that fans can keep themselves occupied with until the next season comes.

Speaking of which, did anybody get a chance to see the alternate endings that they made to try and keep people from guessing who was in the coffin? You can check 'em out here:

Alternate endings

anyway what happened to the ppl on the other boat, that small one that sayid had taken at the beginnig to transport ppl.. i guess they perished in the fire?

Again taking only into account that which we can infer from finale, my best guess is that these people were also "sucked in" with the island after Ben initiated that frozen donkey wheel and everything started to disappear. What do I have to go by? Well, after the island basically went 'kerplunk' into the ocean and the helicopter had nowhere to land, Jack instructed Lapidus to just land the chopper on the second island - the island that Ben had taken Sawyer, Kate, and Jack to when they were initially taken hostage. But if you recall, Lapidus in so many words said 'take a look around you, all you see is ocean' ... or something along those lines. Extrapolating from that, it seems then that the effect of Ben's action not only had an effect on the Island but also on objects surrounding the general vicinity in the ocean. That is to say, if the second island was also gone, then it stands to reason that other objects surrounding the island also got captured in the event. This included Daniel and the Zodiac speedboat and I will even go so far as to also include the freighter - or at least what's left of it. This latter inclusion of the freighter is just a hope as a fan - because if there is hope to be held that Jin survived the freighter explosion then his chances of complete survival is better if the Island was still around for him to somehow swim back to (like Sawyer did after jumping from the helicopter). Now, if the freighter wasn't also captured in the big event causing the Island's disappearance, then that would mean that Jin - if he survived - would just be sitting there in open water with no place to go. And under those circumstances, he may as well be dead anyway.

[Guest jjowah]

my thoughts or rambling

omg! i thought the coffin was for someone small...cuz the coffin was real small..

but locke!!!???????? that was a surprise

richard.he's the ben right now..he's the most mysterious and interesting character right now..since he's been in the past of locke.

and his under eye eyeliner makes him look really spooky dooky.

the others look for the most part like pleasant ppl.

[Guest papabear]

Heh.. things turned bad after you left the island Jack. But you won't know what until next season! Well... as long as there isn't any travelling back in time... but who knows...

[sweetcream]

Woo quoted alot haha. Mostly from HERMIT.

I get the feeling that Locke is still very much alive, maybe it's the constant issue (?) in this case.

I wonder why Jack is not trying to be part of Aaron's life, I mean he technically is his uncle.

A BIG question here is whether the (Daniel's) boat made it back to the island in time.

Also Charlotte was born on the island?!

You know when Kate was on the phone with the "mysterious" person and Jack found out, got all agro and started saying "He stayed behind blah blah blah..." what Kate really talking to Sawyer? She mentioned doing something for him. My theory is that she was doing something for him related to his daughter.

Or maybe he traveled to the future to warn them. I dunno I have weird time theories.

It's hard for Jack to be a part of Aaron's life cause his half-sister was Claire and it gives him memories of the island, and he's just crazy about the island.

Daniel's boat.....I have no idea. I really think they made it to the island, but just didn't show or they're underwater. Spooky.

Charlotte, I think she's older than she looks. Sort of like Richard. Maybe she was a child when Dharma was still working on the island.

That's a good idea about Kate's promise to Sawyer. I almost forgot he had a daughter haha, but yeah maybe to send her money or tell her he died.

I don't necessarily find Richard Alpert creepy, but actually intriguing in the sense that he's been on the same page as Ben on a lot of things but doesn't seem to have that real leadership role. As we've seen in the finale, Ben leaves and it seems like Richard is happy to welcome Locke "home" as the presumed new leader. Why doesn't he just assume that role? That's what's got me curious.

Yeah, he must be older than Ben and Locke.

Which is weird cause you'd think he'd be leader.

Why listen to Ben? Richard could've been the leader.

Or is it like Richard finds the chosen one for the island.

He's just a seeker.

Regarding this issue, I'm hopeful too that Jin is still alive. After all, he was on deck and as the explosion occured, I could see the writers incorporating some sort of 'escape' sequence in which Jin was perhaps in a shielded position from the initial blast, jumped overboard in the nick of time, and then survived in the open water holding on to some wreckage as a flotation device. I'm a fan of the Sun-Jin storyline and I too am hopeful that something miraculous like this would be revealed by show's end. As for Michael, we know that he could not kill himself because "the island would not let him". So if the apparition of Christian could be interpreted as the Island speaking directly to Michael, then being told "you can go now" just indicates to me that Michael served his purpose and he could die now. That's how I'm interpreting it and given Michael's close proximity to the explosives themselves, I can't see how he could plausibly survive that. Of course, this is just my logical side speaking - but supernatural forces aside, I can't see Michael miraculously reappearing somewhere alive and well. Like Dr. Arzt at the Black Rock, he's a goner.

I know. They could make something up with that, say Walt was Michael's constant and he's still alive, so Michael's still alive.

Same goes for Jin. I just really wish he isn't dead lol or shown in the explosion.

Sun's become like her old self cause of that. She's forceful, seems sneaky, and what does she want from Widmore?

In regards to Locke, he's like Michael or Walt in that he was not a confirmed Oceanic 815 survivor. And just like these two, he most probably had to assume an alternate identity so as to not attract the attention of Charles Widmore and his agents. Remember that videotape that Ben showed where his Other agent got captured off-island and got the crap beat out of him by Widmore? Surely anybody with any association with the Island would think twice about advertising that fact, never mind using their own real name. As to why he was off the island, Ben alludes to a possible answer in the finale showdown with Jack at Locke's coffin. As Ben stipulated, something went wrong on the Island and it could be implied that whatever predicament that occurred there after the Oceanic 6 left, it must have been something that Locke could not handle on his own. Hence, he had to see fit to actually leave the Island and seek out the help of all the Oceanic 6 and have them return. Perhaps each of the Oceanic 6 has a role to play and they each have respective "work yet to be done". But tragically, Locke failed in his mission and it ended in his death. When Sayid came to spring Hurley out of the mental hospital, he also alluded to Locke's death. He stated that Bentham's death was reported as a "suicide" and Sayid sounds like he doesn't believe it. This is just speculation on my part, but my guess is that Widmore and his minions might have gotten wise to Locke's presence in the real world, hunted him down, likely tried to pump him for Island info, and then had him killed and staged it as a suicide.

Wow, that could be it.

I was thinking yeah, maybe once off the island, he just changed his name.

Wonder why the island needs them back. The island needs to be saved? The others need their help?

I have no idea what the Oceanic 6 have to do, but it will be interesting to see if them all go back after everything that's happened.

Maybe even a showdown.

As for what Sawyer said to Kate, it was obvious that he had the intention of jumping off the helicopter and that there existed the possibility that he was foresaking his own rescue to benefit the others in making it out on the helicopter. So whatever he said, it probably had to do with asking Kate to do him a "favor" if she should make it back out to the real world and he wouldn't. And this "favor" is reflected in those secretive phone calls that Kate was having behind Jack's back in the flash-forward when those two were engaged and shacking up together. The current popular theory is that Sawyer asked Kate to look after Clementine - the daughter that he never met and had with his fellow con-artist girlfriend from the past (whose name I can't remember atm, unfortunately). He had a huge sum of money that he obtained in a prison deal that lowered his sentence and was freed - which he had set aside specifically under the name of his daughter. He probably asked Kate to see to it that the money got to Clementine and that she's well-taken care of.

Yeah, or to lie to Cassidy and his daughter about his where abouts, after making sure they're fine.

More power to Sawyer though. =)

Haha, yeah I saw that. The funny thing is that I live in San Diego. Given the stated dates of recruitment, it's obviously planned around the time of Comic-Con. Producers Carlton Cuse, Damon Lindelof, and some actors of the show make appearances and it's always a much anticipated and popular event within that convention. I was there last year and we were the first to see the famous "Orchid" video and we also were treated to an appearance by Harold Perrineau (who plays "Michael").

I'm sure this Octagon Global Recruiting commercial is just something to help promote their upcoming Comic-con appearance and probably be some introduction to a new interactive game that fans can keep themselves occupied with until the next season comes.

Speaking of which, did anybody get a chance to see the alternate endings that they made to try and keep people from guessing who was in the coffin? You can check 'em out here:

Alternate endings

Haha that's what I thought.

July is when they have Comic-Con and they just want the fans in on it.

Alternate endings! I saw that on GMA haha.

It didn't make so much sense for Sawyer cause Kate questioned Jack why she would go to "his" funeral.

Desmond kind of, but then there's Walt who was visited by Jeremy Bentham, and that wouldn't make sense cause Desmond doesn't even really know Walt.

Unlike Locke or Sawyer.

They also questioned the size of the coffin.

I really thought it would be Michael or Ben in the coffin. Locke was a close call, but cause of the size theories, I was going for Ben.

And the person in the coffin didn't have any family or friends visiting except Jack so yeah....

[Guest courtzn3y]

Like some people said before, I think Claire's really dead...

The most interesting thing for me in the last few episodes was the doctor

that washed onshore dead, but wasn't actually dead at the time

I wonder where Lost will start up from in the story in terms of the order

of events when it comes back

[Guest HERMIT]

Daniel's boat.....I have no idea. I really think they made it to the island, but just didn't show or they're underwater. Spooky.

I was thinking about this and I have a speculative plot sequence that I think plausibly works in incorporating Daniel Faraday and the hypothetical survival of Jin. First, it works on the notion that everything in the ocean and in close proximity to the Island were all affected by the 'frozen donkey wheel' effect and likewise disappeared. As I mentioned before, Lapidus could see nothing but water all around prior to ditching the helicopter into the ocean. So moving from that, I'm taking it that this included the second island, Daniel's group in the Zodiac speedboat, and whatever remains were left of the freighter. I'm also working on the presumption that the event was isolated to only 'water-based' objects as obviously we see that the helicopter was left unaffected in the air.

Another working assumption I have is that when the helicopter was leaving the freighter, it was heading towards the island. Conversely, Dan's boat was leaving the island in the opposite direction heading towards the freighter before it exploded. So it would stand to reason that their paths were more or less similar, just in opposite directions. What I'm basically getting at here is that either of the two groups would have been at some point been aware of each other's general position, which could be observed whether in the water or air. Hence, when the helicopter is ditched into the ocean, I would think that Daniel would have been able to witness such a crash, come about, and direct the speedboat towards their general direction in hopes that there might be survivors that bailed out in time. Also, after we see that the helicopter group survived the crash, gathered themselves, and got situated in the raft, another plausible course of action they could have taken was to navigate their way back to the freighter site to also see if there were survivors floating about in their wreckage site. (After all, there were a bunch of other people scrambling about on the freighter deck gathering up and putting on life jackets.) But did any of these possibilities play out as we saw it on the finale? No. Not only that, but when the Oceanic 6 finally find rescue by Penny's boat, Penny also doesn't report having come across suspicious wreckage in the water (which may be unlikely anyway, given that it's night) or, more plausibly, come across this unknown Zodiac speedboat wandering about the open ocean in dire need of assistance. Hence, in absence of all of these scenarios, I'm presuming that all of these things disappeared along with the island in that spectacular event.

With that said, I further the theory that "on the other side" - or wherever the Island ultimately ends up - the other island, Daniel's speedboat, and the remaining wreckage/possible survivors of the freighter also show up. To everyone, it looks like they just saw a great flash of light in the sky - and the only thing that went missing was the helicopter that was once in the sky. Anyway, in continuing on with this scenario, Dan's primary focus was to get the Zodiac speedboat away from the Island - so despite having seen that the freighter evidently was destroyed, he would ostensibly continue heading towards the freighter wreckage to see if anybody survived. And this is where we could possibly see how Jin (and possibly others) could have survived the freighter explosion. Maybe prior to the explosion (and with much dramatic license, I might add) Jin could have successfully outfitted himself with a life jacket, jumped into the ocean in the nick of time, and managed to submerge himself underwater to protect himself from the initial intensity of the fiery explosion. Then, after getting his bearings and maybe latching on to some floating wreckage, Jin would simply be stranded there until he was discovered and ultimately rescued by Dan and the speedboat. Then, realizing that the Island was still there off on the horizon and that they didn't escape the vicinity the big Island event, Dan would have no choice but to return back to the Island.

And there, in a nutshell, is what I think is an adequate working theory of what happened to Dan and how Jin could possibly survive the freighter explosion.

Yeah, he must be older than Ben and Locke.

Which is weird cause you'd think he'd be leader.

Why listen to Ben? Richard could've been the leader.

Or is it like Richard finds the chosen one for the island.

He's just a seeker.

"Seeker" seems to be an appropriate description of Richard's role. Remember when Richard appeared at a young Locke's house, posing as some administrator for a school of "special children"? He came with a number of objects to present to Locke and tested to see which item Locke thought was already belonging to him. Among the items was a book entitled "Book of Laws", and when Locke started looking at it, Richard seemed hopeful. But when Locke ultimately settled upon the knife, Richard was visibly disappointed and hurriedly excused himself and left the house saying that Locke wasn't "ready for his school". This whole sequence was reminiscent of the way the High Lamas of the Buddhist faith select a new Dalai Lama. After the Dalai Lama dies, the High Lamas try to locate candidates that they believe is the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama. Each candidate is then presented with a number of artefacts and if the candidate chooses an item that once belonged to the preceding Dalai Lama, they take that as a sign that this is the next Dalai Lama. Like these High Lamas, Richard may also be "seeking" (as you aptly put it) who could presumably be the next Other leader. Richard Alpert himself may never be a leader per se, but he is perhaps more like a "High Other of the Island Order" (haha). Perhaps being a leader is not something that is earned, it's just something that has to be appointed to you by the Island. You don't become leader, you just are. And that's why Richard isn't 'the big Other' on the Island.

However, let's not overlook the significance of this episode. Richard discovered that Locke wasn't the kid that he was looking for. Judging from Richard's disappointed reaction, Locke doesn't appear to be the "promised leader" of the Island after all. But he did pick the knife - so maybe he does play a role after all in the grand scheme of things. Locke was already singled out as being 'special' (hence Richard's visit in the first place) but maybe his role on the Island was much different. Rather than being the ultimate leader, Locke identified himself more as a "protector" or "guardian" of the Island in choosing the knife. I think this is an important point to consider, given that Ben symbolically 'passed the baton' over to Locke prior to moving the Island. It's also important to note that Ben likewise was a "protector" or "guardian" of the Island. Ben wasn't the true leader - because Ben answered to a higher, as-yet-identified entity named "Jacob". Consequently, Ben leaving the Island was symbolic of a literal "changing of the guard". The protection of the Island transferred from Ben's hands into the hands of Locke. And this is why Richard is accepting of this change: he already knew that Locke was destined for that role. Maybe he wasn't meant to be "leader", but he was surely a "protector/guardian" type.

With that said, I have a sort of working theory as to how seasons 5 and 6 may turn out to be: the return and reinstatement of the true leadership to the Island. To begin, if Ben answered to Jacob and Jacob's presence is manifested through the ghostly apparition of Christian Shepherd, Jack's father - then could it be that Christian was himself such a leader-type on the Island prior to his death? Then, extrapolating from the reincarnation belief that the Buddhists implemented, the notion of the next leader might simply be construed as a matter of bloodline, or 'heirs' to that leadership, if you will. Hence, could the next leader be Claire? Could it be Jack? Or could it be Aaron? Maybe it is all three and they are a triumvirate of leadership that the Island is seeking? After all, they do share the same bloodline of Christian Shepherd. This may explain why Claire seemed so smug in that cabin meeting between Christian and Locke - she by then figured out what her destiny could be as everything was revealed to her. But between the time the Oceanic 6 left the Island and Locke's death, maybe something went wrong. It may very well turn out that Claire alone could not function as a sole leader. Or perhaps she enjoyed being a single leader of the Island but she eventually proved unfit for the role. As a result, there could have been much dissension amongst the ranks of the Others and problems with the direction of that leadership. Consequently, Locke as the protector/guardian, saw fit to have to leave the Island to seek out and return Jack and Aaron (at least) to the Island because they are the other two that also have direct connections to that leadership role. (Hmmm, Locke as protector/guardian leaving the island under an assumed alias. Sound familiar? Sounds like the same kind of off-island modus operandi that Ben used when he was the Island protector/guardian.) As for the other four of the Oceanic 6, they too must have to come back because like Locke, they might have as-yet-defined roles and "work yet to be done". This could also explain the seemingly contradictory nature of Claire's appearance to Kate in Aaron's bedroom and telling her not to 'dare' bring him back to the Island - while Locke actually wants them to go back. Claire may like her own power and see her very own son (as well as half-brother Jack) as a threat to a sovereignty over the Island that she might want to keep for herself. Or, if it's a totally different kind of conflict, she might just be warning Kate off from bringing Aaron back into a heated conflict, like a concerned mother over a son.

It may be interesting to recall the prophesy of Richard Malkin, exhorting Claire to not let Aaron be raised by another. Perhaps the whole crux of the prophesy was that Aaron may ultimately be a destined new leader of the Island - but to be given up for adoption and raised by another would cause Aaron's life track to be steered away from that destiny. This was an outcome that the Others could not let slip away. But with the fate of Aaron being held in the uncertain hands of single-mother Claire, rather than see the baby slip through their hands, Malkin saw fit to have a specific "good couple" waiting for the child in Los Angeles - perhaps Other agents posing as the couple. Whether the plane crash was by design (Jack and Christian were also on that plane after all) with the couple in LA possibly just a secondary option, the point of the matter is that the contingencies were well in place to deliver the dead dad, the two half-siblings, and the unborn fetus back unto the Island. But somewhere along the way, something went wrong. Dad came back to life, half-sis is now on board, but the drunkard son and the now-born bastard child managed to get off the Island. Whatever the reasons be as to why Claire doesn't want Aaron back on the Island, the point of the matter is that he is needed and the Island requires it to be so.

In any event, there still is the case of Locke needing the Oceanic 6 back on the Island and one thing is assured: they are all needed to help address that conflict, whatever it may be. And who better to help the O6 find their way? None other than the old protector of the Island: Ben. He may not be on the Island anymore, but it appears that there's work yet for him to do.

Hmmm. After writing all that, I can't believe that I actually came up with this theory.

Anyway, mere speculation as always. It could be wrong for all I know.

[klx13]

Didn't Daniel Farraday get off the island though? In a previous flash forward, he was seen watching the report about the Oceanic crash on the news... (or was it a flashback?!). He looked upset as he watched it. Or maybe he had been traveling through time (as Desmond had) and he knew what had happened or what was going to happen... he does have memory problems from all the experiments he did on himself (like when he and Charlotte and playing with the cards). And he had written in his book that Desmond was his constant.

There was a flash forward (or flashback) with Miles, also. He seems to have knowledge of both the past and present, which may be why he chooses to stay on the island (because he knows he can eventually get off?).

Oh and I was scouring some Lost forums and came across what they thought Sawyer said to Kate on the helicopter-- he says something like "I have a daughter in Alabama. Take care of her for me." And then at the end, when Kate gets that mysterious phone call at home, the caller is saying "Don't bring him back" (implying Aaron).

I think there's so many directions next season could go... Ben has always been the master manipulator. Maybe he's just trying to get everyone back on the island for his own purposes. Although he said that whoever moves the island can never go back, maybe it just means they can't go back simply because they don't know the location of the island. But with the help of the Oceanic Six, plus Locke's body, they could find the location of the island again.

Jin could possibly be alive. The impact of the blast was really strong though, and quite fast. And it seems the island doesn't let anyone just die until they've fulfilled some kind of purpose. Maybe Jin's purpose is yet to be determined... OR his purpose was to father Sun's child, and that's why he's dead now.

And about Richard Alpert... I think he's one of those people that controls everything behind the scenes without actually taking an official leadership position. Just in case things go wrong then, people will never blame him. He's always had influence over the leaders he's worked for, including Ben (remember he was the one that came up with the idea to gas the Dharma initiative people?). Once he figured out that Locke wasn't the right leader for them, maybe he somehow got into contact with Ben and asked him to bring everyone back to the island to find the rightful leader. Maybe it's Jack... Aaron has no place there because maybe there would be a power struggle (Claire warns Kate not to bring him back to the island, and Christian Shepard tells Jack he's not supposed to raise him). Or, they simply want to protect Aaron.

Oh and Jeremy Bentham is the name of an English philosopher that was influenced by John Locke (another English philosopher).

[Guest HERMIT]

Didn't Daniel Farraday get off the island though? In a previous flash forward, he was seen watching the report about the Oceanic crash on the news... (or was it a flashback?!). He looked upset as he watched it. Or maybe he had been traveling through time (as Desmond had) and he knew what had happened or what was going to happen... he does have memory problems from all the experiments he did on himself (like when he and Charlotte and playing with the cards). And he had written in his book that Desmond was his constant.

There was a flash forward (or flashback) with Miles, also. He seems to have knowledge of both the past and present, which may be why he chooses to stay on the island (because he knows he can eventually get off?).

The plot sequences involving the freighter scientific group are all either flashbacks or Island present time. There's not yet been any depiction of them in any flash forward sequences, only the Oceanic 6. In the episode "Confirmed Dead" we are first introduced to Frank, Daniel, Miles, and Charlotte in a flashback depicting what each of them were up to at the time the so-called Oceanic 815 plane wreckage was found. Daniel was in Massachusetts inexplicably crying as he watched the news report of the wreckage find on TV (perhaps his Island consciousness traveled back to this pre-Island time and he realizes that after the disappearing event, Dan would have no way of getting off the island?); Charlotte was in Tunisia investigating polar bear skeletal remains on a desert excavation site; Frank was in the Bahamas calling Oceanic 815 and disputing the identity of the presumed pilot's remains as he was watching the news broadcast; and Miles was in Inglewood, CA visiting the home of an elderly woman who believed that the spirit of her deceased grandson is still present in his bedroom.

I'm curious as to where you find that Miles has knowledge of "past and present". (But then again, don't they all? Haha, I think maybe you meant know the future) As far as I know, the extent of Miles' special "powers" is mainly in his ghostbusting ability: he is able to sense things about the dead and things of that mystical nature. Maybe you meant Daniel? But despite the implied "consciousness time travels", Faraday is more of a physics expert on the Island rather than a prognosticator of future events.

Ben has always been the master manipulator. Maybe he's just trying to get everyone back on the island for his own purposes. Although he said that whoever moves the island can never go back, maybe it just means they can't go back simply because they don't know the location of the island.

You could say that again! But it's more than just not knowing the location of the Island. Whoever moves the Island also gets displaced in time. Recall what Ben was wearing in the episode The Shape of Things To Come where we see a flash forward of Ben waking up in the middle of the Sahara desert wearing a heavy Dharma parka and bearing a noticable cut injury on his upper right arm. When this happened, it was October of the year 2005. As we would see later in this flash forward, Ben would seek out Sayid and eventually recruit him to be his personal hit man. Meanwhile, go back to the final moments of the season finale. After blasting a hole in the Vault in the Orchid, Ben slips on the very same parka and then ventures through the short tunnel uncovered by the blast and makes his way into a very cold cavernous enclosure. As he goes down the ladder, he falls down, nicking his right arm on the way down, and sustains that now-familiar arm injury. He then goes on to push that frozen 'donkey wheel' - which in turn not only moves the island but transports Ben someplace else. And that someplace else we now know: he ends up in the Sahara, which we see in the aforementioned episode above.

But the main point is not that he's transported to another place, he's also transported to another time: as mentioned before, the time Ben arrives in the Sahara was sometime in late October, 2005. But according to the Island Timeline, the time that the Oceanic 6 leave and the Island disappears is 101 days after the plane crashed on September 22, 2004. This places the time when Ben turned the wheel to be around December 31, 2004. That means that Ben not only jumped from the Island over to the Sahara - he also jumped nearly 11 months into the future! So in the literal sense, Ben not only couldn't get back to the Island location-wise; having been displaced in time, there wasn't anything Ben could have done to help with the Island's current predicaments. Because at the time that he arrives at his new destination, all those events will have already happened and the fates of the people would all have been determined. And seeing that he is now off-Island, Ben presumably has no access to any mystical means of getting back to the Island. Once moved, he would not be privy to whatever bearing or method of entry there was to get back in. For him to find the Island, he'd have to rely on the same hit-or-miss methods that Widmore has used in his own search. I'm afraid that Ben is beyond being manipulitave at this point. He's pretty much given up his station in life on the Island and entrusted it to Locke to protect it. This is evidenced by the goodbyes Ben exchanged with Locke prior to turning the wheel.

And about Richard Alpert... I think he's one of those people that controls everything behind the scenes without actually taking an official leadership position. Just in case things go wrong then, people will never blame him. He's always had influence over the leaders he's worked for, including Ben (remember he was the one that came up with the idea to gas the Dharma initiative people?). Once he figured out that Locke wasn't the right leader for them, maybe he somehow got into contact with Ben and asked him to bring everyone back to the island to find the rightful leader.

There is a drawback to that assumption and it harks back to when Richard Alpert tested a young John Locke with the objects test that I mentioned in the previous post. It's implied by Alpert's hopeful reaction when Locke started towards the "Book of Laws" that he might be destined for greater things, but instead Locke chose the knife. Based on his disappointment, I'm speculating that Richard knew as early as back then that Locke wasn't cracked up to be the real leader - but he knew that Locke was good at something (perhaps a 'protector' role like Ben). In any event, we already know through the flash forwards that it isn't Richard getting into contact with Ben to try to get everyone back to the Island. Instead, it's actually Locke that was trying to carry out this mission - but he would end up dying off-island and seemingly failing in that regard.

[klx13]

Ah ok. My memory of that episode is a bit hazy-- I thought that when they were showing Daniel, Charlotte, Miles and Frank that it was a flash forward. Got confused. As for Miles, yup I did mean past and future (my bad). My point is moot since it was a flashback, not flash forward.

If Ben is transported to another location as well as another time, wouldn't the island too presumably be in a different location as well as time (or maybe just another time)? And if Locke has left the island... then the island has been moved again, if Locke was able to return by moving the island (unless he traveled by another method). The fact that he's dead means he somehow fulfilled his purpose to the island. And they need his body as well in order to return to the island-- maybe he'll become a spiritual guide kind of like Christian Shepard? (read that theory on lostpedia I think).

With Richard Alpert, I think I got confused again with time travel/flashbacks. I guess he accepted Locke as temporary leader because he knew that in time, they'd eventually find a new leader with Locke's help. He seems like the type of person who would patiently wait.

I know Ben's ultimate motivation now is revenge on Widmore for killing his daughter, by killing Penny. But... what can he do if he gets back on the island? And why does Widmore want to find the island so badly-- was it only to find Ben? And for what purpose? And who are the people that Ben has Sayid killing-- are they all Widmore's people? Is Widmore still trying to find the island, even if Ben isn't on it?

I think I have more questions than insights, heh.

[Guest teeny]

I thought the episode was good not their best season finale, but finding out who the person in the coffin was pretty surprising!

You know in that one scene when Sun went to go see Mr. Widmore, and told him that they (ocreanic 6) were not the only one's off the island, do you think she was just talking about ben/locke? Or do you guys think more ppl were able to escape the island??