[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Dear @zi4r, are you still lurking around? I hope you do, because I have a ton of things to share. I know it's rather late now to show my thoughts and feelings about the show, but I think most of you still care enough to read. I am just following my messed up traces of thoughts, so I'm not sure how long this post will be, please forgive me. And I have to warn that this will show a lot of my negative POVs, which is not very much like most of my previous posts.

I think when we are immersed in something, it's hard to see right from wrong, to see things as they really are, esp with a drama like this, a drama that tossed us unmercifully into an emotion roller coaster, always made sure that we lived in fear, constantly slapped our faces, gave us some very small sweet candies after a violent spanking, and smacked us in the head as soon as we started to forget about their recent wrongdoings. I am more than happy that the show is over, not just because I have a lot of deadlines waiting after these hellish two months, but also because I can finally sit back and think about it through and through.

I am a boring mother who rarely got the chance to watch anything else rather than Disney Junior and Cartoon Network. And it's quite a long time since I spent time watching a Kdrama, let alone joining a forum and talking about it. I have to admit that it was so sooo gooooood, though it consumed so muuuuch time. Looking back, I think I would have dropped the show after ep 9 or 10 if it's not for all the lengthy and insightful posts here. They (You) were so enchanting that I kept coming back again and again for more, throwing my working time out of the window. You eclipses, you are truly amazing!

And here comes my messy POVs about the show:

 

 

1. DOES THE SHOW (WRITER) GET MORE CREDIT THAN IT (SHE) SHOULD? YES. YES. YESSSSSS!!!

It's not rare that the viewers/readers often get more meanings from a work than the writer first intended it to be. For SHR, I have bumped into the same question more than 1 time (once from @zi4r, once from overthinkingkdrama tumblr acc). First I was super confused by all the characters' behaviors, the bumpy progresses in their relationships, the sudden changes in their motives. But miraculously, when a question about the logicality of it all arose, you Eclipses had them answered in a most satisfactory manner possible (I am not being sarcastic here, it's a sincere praise!).

Eg, when HS blindly clung onto WW, we explained that she was loyal to the bone, so loyal that she didn't resent for a moment even when WW turned away from her under the rain. When HS hid WE from WS, we justified that she was trying to protect both WE and WS, she did it in hoping to prevent her premonition from materializing. And many more I can't quite remember them all.

I'm OK if this happened once or twice, but NO, it's like that all along. We audiences were left with a mess and had to sort out this from that on our own times and times again. Was it because the writer had ridiculously high regard of the audiences' IQ that she believed we could solve all the problems with only some scattered, fragmented inputs? I don't think so.

To me, the problem is that: SHE WAS STUCK between having to adapt an existing script (which was originally complicated enough) to meet a whole lot of demands:

- 1. To fit actual Goryeo history (in BBJX there's only one battle for the throne, no coup, 2 kings. In SHR we have a dizzying number of schemes and plans, 4 successive kings, 3 coups); \

- 2. To condense 35 eps into 20 eps (much more events to cover but  much less time);

- 3. HUGE changes in the OTP's background and characters (in BBJX, Rouxi knew history like the back of her hand, she was smart and politically savvy, 4th was a normal prince, didn't have broken soul or painful backstory. On the contrary, in SHR, HS was naive, cheerful, had almost no history knowledge, heavily depended on her vague premonitions, and WS is the pathetic outcast, full of mental and physical scars, had a reputation for being coldblooded and ruthless).

It seemed the adaptation into Korean styled drama was not difficult enough, she had to challenge herself even more. Honestly, it’s intriguing at the first sight, but in the end, it turned out to be a mess. The constant comparison between the two versions didn’t have either.

All the plot/incentive/character mismanagement were articulated by @zi4r so it’s not necessary to mention it here (truth is, with my terrible English and messy writing, I don’t think I can handle this task). I just want to say that, it seems we are suffering from CONSPIRACY THEORY SYNDROME aka THE EMPEROR’S NEW CLOTHES MINDSET (I don’t know if there’s really something like this, the words just jumped out of my brain). That’s it, we tended to give more credit to the writer, create more layers of meaning to the characters’ actions and behaviors, give the existing plot another underlying plot under yet another  underlying plot. We can’t stand the thought that there’s nothing there, and all the struggles were baseless, clueless, purposeless. That’s our tragedy.

2.But here’s my main POV about the show:

THIS SHOW IS SO WANG-SO-CENTERED IT’S SICK!

Just look at it: It’s all about Wang So, nothing more. With the huge number of characters, I was excited at first, expected that we would have many parallel stories of different characters with different backgrounds, interests, motives. And as the drama went, their stories would intertwine, affecting one another and create unexpected twists and turns.

And what did I get? Nothing. It’s like a joke that apart from WW, no one seemed to have a life of her/his own. We didn’t get to see how they managed their own life, interacted with people, loved or hated. They were all like useless zombies, just sat around waiting to fulfill their duty toward Wang So, be it torturing, attacking, mistreating, supporting or loving. We only get glimpses of their life here and there but they were never enough. And they were so small and shallow snippets that they are boring and annoying to watch. The time budget for them only got excessively generous right before they died (remember Lady Oh, Wang Yo, Wang Eun, Woo Hee?)

It’s an overstatement to say many characters are underdeveloped. May I say, they don’t have any developments to begin with (except for Wook), they only had sudden justification of motive and purpose right before getting killed. Let’s me be clearer here:

• Queen Yoo and Yo: what’s their roles, really? They are silliest manipulators I have ever seen. OK, they wanted the throne, and their solution was to assassinate the CP as many times as possible. Each time an attempt failed, they dropped it just like nothing ever happened and moved on with a new equally silly plan. We rarely get to see how they increased the role and influence of Yo in the royal family, how they made use of their powerful family to push the King, just one failed killing attempt  after another. If there’s anything they’re useful for, it’s being the disgusted evil mother and brother to Wang So, making sure that he was insulted, rejected, deprived of any human love and attention. We never know the reason why Queen Yoo despised WS so much (even until she died), we had to accept that she’s a horrible mother from the start and how poor WS was for living a life in constant longing for maternal love.

         So in short, Queen Yoo and Yo's role is to make Wang So look dramatically pathetic, so we audiences could root for him.

• Hae Soo: her role is simply Wang So’s object of love and interest. How boring a show is without a love story featuring the hero? Yeah we used to talk about how Hae Soo covered Wang So’s scar, gave him the much needed love and comfort, made him a better King. Now I would like to take them all back. I don’t think Wang So was better off with Haesoo in his life, quite the contrary. At the start, he was strong, ruthless. The scar was his weakness but also a powerful weapon to make everyone scared of him. Then Hae Soo covered it, gave him the confidence to walk freely with his bared face, but also weakened him considerably for he had to give in time after time to the ruling of Taejo, Wang Mu, then Wang Yo. While with no Haesoo, he could just simply kill everyone and became King, without having to wait too long and feeling any guilt. How nice would that be?
•         I regret saying Hae Soo’s role was paving the way for WS to the throne. Truth is, she blocked his way considerably. Did Hae Soo make WS a happier or better king? I don’t think so. See how much he suffered when killing the traitors, getting the nation into shape while dealing with Hae Soo’s tantrums about human right? Later, we got the breaking news that he freed slaves in tribute to Hae Soo. Yay! How did we know Hae Soo inspired WS to do that? Coz Yeon Hwa told us so! There’s little proof that Hae Soo had any influence on his idealism while she was still alive. Everything was told, not shown, so in the end, it’s not persuasive enough, sorry.

And through out the show, we didn’t get to see HS mature. She just grew weaker, paler both physically and mentally. So weak that I expected her to die sooner for she was of no use hovering around mindlessly like that.

• Wang Wook and the Hwangbo Clan in general: WW used to have a life before WS came. He’s smart, calculative, cared about the normal people’s lives. But after HS came, his life revolved around how to get married with HS, and after HS was stolen by WS, his life revolved around outsmarting WS to get the throne and HS. One ridiculous and illogical detail was that he was never punished for betraying Yo. They didn’t give us a good reason why Yo had to keep him by his side while fully aware of how cunning WW was. Maybe Yo got a secret message from the writer to keep Wook alive so that he could help HS later by revealing their relationship. OK, Yo, you’re one supportive guy. The show owed its ultimate success to your benevolence.

   

The HB clan’s true power was one thing that confuse me greatly. This minute it was weak, so weak that all the responsibility lay on WW’s shoulder, so weak that Queen HB had to kneel before Queen Yoo, asking Yoo to spare her children’s life. Then BAM, the moment WS became king, the whole clan turned their back at their supposed leader WW and in a blink of an eye became so powerful that the King had no other option than marry YH to keep his throne. WTH was that? Could someone pls kindly enlighten me about this?

 

- Wang Jung: he’s dumb. No wonder about that. No, he’s not dumb for hating WS. I read a very persuasive analysis by overthinkingdrama about his legitimate reasons for this and it buys me completely, come and have look, it’s really well written!

 

He’s dumb because from the beginning to the end, he was the same stupid boy who tended to use muscle rather than the brain. The show tried to give him some value by telling (not showing) us that he fought bravely and got promoted to general. But it doesn’t only take muscular strength to be a general. You have to be wise, cunning, flexible. And moreover, fighting side by side with the soldiers may shape you into a very understanding experienced person, if not hardening you and making you ruthless. But did Jung have any of these said traits after all those battles? No. He’s still stupid and clueless about everything around him. When his brother came back and kill the King, we only needed a whining mother to stop him from intervening. How convenient! He’s done nothing worthwhile to protect HS under Yo’s reign, just pissed off everytime HS was mistreated. Duh!

 

 - Wang Won: The disgusted weasel who supported anyone that rivaled WS. That’s all. Period. Then in the end, before he died, he said that he was so close to becoming King. Hey, hey, where’s the part that he planned to become King?

 

-  CP Wang Mu: He’s the useless reluctant king who never shown up in important times so Wang So could be the ultimate star of the show (the rain ritual, Yo’s first revolt). Both Yo’s and his reign were rushed, leaving no mark whatsoever, and plagued with madness.

 

- Wang Eun: The manipulated one, unintentionally insulted WS on his birthday (so that we could root for So even more). The object of Wang So’s mercykilling and the reason for WS’s impressive delivery of heartbrokenness and desperation. Besides those, his entire love story with SD is a big MEH.

 

- Baek Ah: The nice unconditional supporter of WS from the beginning. Yeah he’s nice but he never had a solid reason to root for WS. And he was always the same play boy, indifferent of royal affair that he, just like HS, could only be a very small source of comfort but never an ally of any actual use to WS. His love story both with Lady Hae and Woo Hee was… how do I say it when there’s nothing to say?

 

- King Taejo was not an impressive king either. I wondered about his role when what he did was marrying one girl after another to deal with any arisen problems from the clans. It seemed that he was well aware of Queen Yoo’s role in all the chaos within the palace wall but what did he do? Turned a blind eye and executed the innocent people for a greater good (what good, may I ask?). He acted indifferently and treated WS like trash for a good majority of the drama, but right before he died, we got to discover that he was a caring father, always secretly looked out for WS, had Gen Park teach WS martial art, told people to take care of WS. I’m sorry daddy, I misunderstood you. But where were you when small acts or kindness were required?

 

 

 

And SECONDLY, every single scheme, plot, plan, hearbreaking incident didn’t have any purpose other than driving WS forward on his career or love path or to highlight WS’s tragedy, good nature and LJK’s acting skills. After fulfilling this said mission, their aftermath and consequence were left unmentioned, unsaid, unsolved. Eg:

 

- The failed attempt in killing CP on the exorcism day: It’s the chance for WS to prove his loyalty to the CP, thus getting a permanent residence in the palace. He also got to show his excellent fighting skill by killing a whole temple of monks. Wow!

 

- Surprised wedding between HS and King Taejo: It’s a lame reason to put WS and HS on a same horse yet again. (The escape plan was vague, where did they plan to take HS to?) It also provide a chance for HS to get into the palace so that she could be around WS and got pulled into palace affairs.

 

- Tea poisoning incident: First I thought that YH’s plot unintentionally put an end to SooWook and opened a new beginning for SooSo. Now I think YH was only a poor puppet, manipulated by the writer so that WS had a chance to be all sacrificial for HS and moved to a new stage in their relationship. It’s almost funny but not funny that he suffered no major aftermath after drinking the poison. And the whole royal family was fully satisfied after one lowly court lady got executed. No further investigation was carried out.

 

- Eun’s death: A tragic event to highlight LJK’s brilliant acting skill. No more. Eun and SD live in the dark until the day the writer decided their time was up. Only until now that we knew his family was powerful and was a threat to Yo’s throne. Eun’s death, which was supposed to be a fatal blow for SooSo’s relationship, was worth almost nothing. WS seemed not blaming HS for not trusting him. And HS seemed not having any regret for hiding Eun from WS. Noone got a major change of attitude. Only that WS used it a reason to break up with HS so that he could gain Gen Park’s support. But 2 yrs later, they kissed and made up (literally) like nothing ever happened, neither of them bothered talking about the real reason for 2 year suffering or reflecting any lesson from Eun’s death. And Gen Park, you’re OK that now they were back together? It’s just that?

 

There’s more but I am too tired now to type. And it’s too long already. All I have to say it I no longer feel heartbroken about this love. For it was never about love from the start. If even the writer didn’t give it a damn, why should I?

 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

1 hour ago, zi4r said:

Expected sub-plot: Political intrigue & Battle for the throne

What we got: Child-play level politics & Anti-climatic transfers of power

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In this drama, WS is the only truly developed character. Everyone else just exists to bring shape and dimension to this one character. So almost all other people that are involved in the courtly intrigue are left one-dimensional. WW & YH get slightly better treatment in terms of character sketch; at least, there is some effort in making them almost human-like. But others, even the central characters like Queen Yoo & Wang Yo are just walking-talking humanoid shells to me --- their motivations are left unexplained; their actions are almost comical in their goodness or evilness.

For a political intrigue to truly blossom, we need light & shade in characters. And since the massive cast & too-short run of the drama doesn't allow for true character developments, the political intrigue part of the sub-plot is doomed from the start. Each event in history/plot is made as an episodic problem, introduced quickly & resolved just as quickly (e.g. rain ceremony, various coups, rebellion of Baekje in Ep19). So except for the WS poisoning & mercury poisoning, each event has very little impact on the main story-arc. Thus, we are not invested in the politics of this drama at all.

 

That would have been fine if the drama manages to make an impact in the main transfer-of-power plot-points. But look at this:

• Taejo died almost peacefully. HS limps around to save the nation. Then the battle scene with gorgeous sword fight. Then, Mu is King.

My disappointment? It was too short; Mu arrived quickly and there was no bloody battle.

But this one is not all bad. At least, we got to see WW's political mind in how he betrayed Yo. And we got to see HS at least doing something. And we got the nice conversation between WS & HS in the throne room.

• Mu died. One little moment of badassery from WS. Threatened with HS, he stopped fighting. Then, Yo is King.

My disappointment? Mu drowned in thigh-deep water. Well, I know his veins were pumped full of mercury by then, but the editing of the drowning scene was s*** so I didn't feel the impact of his death. Then, again, fight scene was too short.

But this one is very good in one particular sense: tortured WS. His inner struggle was beautiful to see... so that salvaged the scene quite a bit.

• Yo died. There was supposed to be a coup, which becomes not-a-coup. Then, WS/GJ is King.

Most anti-climatic ascent to throne of all times for me. I was expecting some interesting planning for the coup; we didn't get it. I was expecting some bloody battle; we didn't get it. I was expecting at least some confrontation between WS and Yo; we didn't get it. In almost a blink of an eye, the coup AND the coronation was over. WTH?!!!

The problem with making the power-transfers anti-climatic is that it cheapens WS's struggles. After all the pain while under the reign of other Kings, he became King almost instantly without much of a how-do-you-do. So we are left in the state of blah, rather then feel the satisfaction that he's now King.

 

 

You again! With your gigantic monstrous post full of relentless unforgiving analyses! You're such a... 

WELL SAID, BABY, WELL SAID!

There's one ridiculous pattern I notice that has emerged times and times again on the show. It's that every time everyone suited up all nicely, preparing for a bloody revolt or rebellion, someone will die on the spot and conveniently prevent all the bloodshed (that we audience expected).

- When Yo and Wook attacked Cheon Doek palace. What did we get? A sword dance between WS and WW while the rest watch on amusingly. Then Mu came back, JM declared King Taejo was dead, everyone was like: "Yay! New King! No more fighting babes!"

- When Yo came back with a few soldiers for another revolt, he was met by even fewer soldiers and some palace maids. Just as the battle got somewhat bloodier with WS's appearance, Yo decided to pull out the HS card and saved a bunch of lives. (So who's the kind one here? Yo, I suppose?)

- When WS finally had his own cool big troop, and finally got to persuade his lovely bro Baek Ah to suit up for this big day, what did they get in return? An open gate and more than welcome palace guards (I was wondering what power YH and Queen HB had that they could control the palace guards all they wanted?). And to make the matter even simpler, Yo had a heart attack and die. Great timing. Again, no bloodshed. How convenient is that?

- When the people of Later Baek Jae (whatever the name is!) rebelled, instead of letting Baek Ah's sword get tainted with blood, instead of letting WH do some negotiating, she just jumped off the wall. And no more fight to watch, everyone came back to their places, feeling more depressed and empty than ever before.

And my speculation is that armor thingy must be super expensive that the PD decided that tainting or damaging them is a sin so he decided to play "Will be back" instead. And maybe screening fighting scene is not the PD's cup of tea? And maybe the budget for public actors and actresses is limited? Whatever the reason is, I can't help but feeling we are watching a sitcom without any comedy in it. T_T

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

WOW. JUST WOW. MY HAT OFF TO ALL OF YOU HERE WHO WERE WATCHING THE SHOW LIVE AND TYPED RECAPS FOR THE REST OF US. It's like wearing the thorn crown and carrying the cross all the way to the execution ground while describing the process and the feeling of it to us mourners. WOW. Please accept my sincerest admiration!

After this ep, all is left for me is a numb feeling. I don't want to blame anyone here, they are all pitiful, pathetic creatures who could do nothing more than accept what fate has in store for them. For all he is, we know for sure that GJ will never let Hae Soo go in any situations. But what's there for HS to stay by GJ's side? Nothing. No titles. No friends. No more joy in life. Just watch the day pass and wait for GJ to come back to her after a day of killing, exiling, torturing whoever threatens the throne or the stability of Goryeo as a whole. Is it a life worth living or looking forward to? NO. Just a big NO NO. 

I remember a quote from the drama TOMATO: promise is an elastic string whose ends held by two people. If one lets go, the other will get hurt. That's exactly the case here. For how much the mutual promise is killing them, GJ will never let go. That's why HS has to do the deed and be the richard simmons. So I understand her for being cruel to GJ once and for all. Because there's simply no happy ending for them here in the palace. Separation is the only way for them to stay in love with each other. Otherwise, GJ will be hurt more and more, thinking HS no longer understand him and support him, while HS get more and more scared of GJ every passing day, feeling she contributed in creating a monster. 

In such a passionate relationship, the one clinging gets all the sympathy, the one letting go gets all the blame. But I'm sure being cruelly decisive when the situation requires you too requires a lot of inner strength. And I praise HS for that.

And I am happy that she actively put an end to all of her lover's and her suffering and enjoyed her last days in peace, though constantly longing for GJ. But keeping fond memories of each other is better than staying alongside but growing tired of each other. 

And just like @40somethingahjumma has put it. The role of HS is to pave the way for WS to the throne. Falling in love with him is just gravy. Now that the mission is accomplished, there's nothing better or more plausible that she can do for the one she loves than to remove herself from his path so that he can fulfill his destined mission.  

And part they did. And I'm fine with that. I am really fine. Yes, I am. 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

53 minutes ago, Akiddo said:

Ep 19 and 20 seem to be going to be pretty close to the C version except for the pregnancy arch. Very unlikely since there is no time! At this juncture, Soo wouldn't want to be intimate with So - knowing that she would be leaving him (or at least trying to leave him). No matter how much it hurts her, she would rather be hated by him then to put him in another situation where she is used as a bait to harm him. Soo's decision to leave is not just about Chae Ryung and the cruelty - that is just the tip of the iceberg - she is really tired and is not going to change to keep up with the politics in the palace. Soo is taking herself out of the equation for a greater good. She knows it would take tremendous effort to leave since So is not going to let her go. Hurting him is not her intention because leaving also hurts her deeply too. 

 

I agree with you. Ep 18 ended with a sour note. It's not like HS resented GJ for killing CR, but she seemed exhausted. It left no room for further intimacy in ep 19, I believe. And I even think that actually they haven't done IT at all. The blown away candle was too vague a hint that only left us guessing and maybe we'll never find out the truth about what happened after the kiss. But remember at the beginning of ep 17, we had a 1 year jump before WS led a troop to overthrow King Yo (can't remember his name as king)? It's 1 year after the candle incident and nothing happened to HS, so I assume they just lay alongside each other and nothing happened, typically the way every other Kdrama deal with fans' demand of bed scene. 

At the first night together after WS became king. When GJ pulled her down beside him and asked her to stay for the night, HS refused, afraid that 'people' would talk behind their backs. And even in the writing scene in ep 17, when GJ said HS would be busy raising children and have no time to feel bored, HS scolded him for mentioning children stuff while he hadn't even proposed to her. I don't think they would act that way if they had actually done it. And that really annoyed me, what was there between them that the couldn't do it? Isn't it true that the King can have anyone in his palace? What were they waiting for? Even more favorable and romantic moment? Urghh. It's like trying to suit up and pack all your stuff properly when the tsunami is right at your front door. 

Talk about skinship and intimacy in Kdrama. I feel that Kdramas tend to favor pure love with a little touching, kissing, hugging rather than go for anything which is more "hardcore". One of my all time beloved drama, Tomato, only consisted of 2 embrace scenes between the OTP, one was when Lee Han Yi was too desperate with her life and leaned onto Seung Jun and cried. The second was when they confessed their feelings at the end of the drama. Many other dramas I watched go so far as to put the OTP on the same bed but they just embrace each other while falling asleep, nothing else. 

And the same happens with SH. It's like the writer and director are trying to retain HS's purity, preparing for her relationship with WS. Man I saw a scene between Rouxi and 8th, that kiss was hot as f**k! They embraced each other and rolled around on the lawn kissing. And I see why 4th got all jealous and mad hearing about their love affair. But for HS and WW, what did they have? Hand holding, a kiss on the forehead, some embraces. And they didn't do anything, even when sitting in that dark cave for god sake! Keke, it feels like HS already knew WW was not her last so that she held herself back. I don't know how the audiences would react if the K version let WW and HS did what Rouxi and 8th did haha.

And I think HS should regret for the rest of her life for her indecision, because YH will be the one to take GJ's virginity though he likes it or not. Have you ever thought of it, show? 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

10 hours ago, hiluna said:

My beef with Soo is that when she read CR's letter she didn't show enough angst at being betrayed. It was like "oh she did it for love" and that absolved her in Soo's eyes for all her horrible actions. There was no remorse on CR's part and no regrets. CR was not the person she thought was her "sister", she was a fake, and if she had to get angry at someone it should be at herself for being her usual trusting self, not at So. I wanted her to be angry at CR, throw the letter away, have a tantrum then calm down and think about her life and where it is heading, and that would have indicated to me that she wasn't leaving So because of what he did to CR.

Yes, you've made a good point. Boy I feel like I'm already getting smarter reading all those brilliant comments here keke.

I mean I understand the way she felt toward WS after witnessing CR's death. But just like you, I wish she had been angrier at the fact that CR had deceived her from day 1 and do horrible things that threatened the very life of HS, her beloved agassi and friend. And then she said she had NO REGRET? Pff, give me a break! Serve you right, eggroll!

 I think the writer should have digged a lil deeper, to let us know more about her dilemma rather than blame it solely on blind unrequited love. Maybe she did it to please Won and because Wook persuade her that would help him become king, then he can marry HS and everyone will be happy in the end etc. Unfortunately, CR, like many other characters, are underdeveloped that way, thus making it hard for us to sympathize with them, and making HS look dumb for sympathyzing with them.

Ah I feel so much like HS now: I don't think I can forgive what you did, but I understand  

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

I have another crazy idea about the back-to-present ending:

HS woke up at someone doing CPR for her. Guess who? It's Ji Mong in that homeless man form just like the first time she met him ! And JM says:"Happy coming back Ms HS! Thank u for your support! King Taejo hired me to transport you back to Goryeo to assist 4th prince in getting the throne with your excellent makeup skill. Now your mission is accomplished, his majesty would like to reward you with shares of biggest names in cosmetics industry, specially purchased by the offsprings of GJ king in the name of Go Ha Jin." 

And she lives happily ever after. 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

28 minutes ago, UmmiN said:

This is what I wanted to bring across everytime ppl bring up the CR stuff. Ppl just overlook the fact that shes angry that CR was being treated like a dog. i think from the beginning HS disagrees with the Goryeo style... she talked abt treating people like animals. She did not argue abt why CR was punished but more like HOW her punishment is being carried out. it's her 21st century mentality where when commiting crimes and such we want to be judged fairly. even accomplices gets punishment together with the mastermind. but here i feel that when she said CR's fault is being born a slave... not literally means that shes not in the wrong more like if you r being born a slave you have no choice, u cant say no to the mastermind and in the end d one suffering the burrito treatment is you (the slave) and not the mastermind coz people born with power are not easily punished (theres seems to b no punishment for Won, Wook and YH) even if theyre being punished, will they get the same punishment as CR as in being whacked while everyone's watching... 

i think this drama akes people see beyond the surface.. not simply taking things as it is but more in depth (read between the lines)..

For example people bashed HS for rejecting WS's proposal... but look into her eyes and notice the emotions within. It's forced rejection. She desperately wanna say yes but there's other circumstances that holds her back. Being the girl she is, she simply cant think of herself. though she wants her own happiness, at the same time she puts WS best interest ahead of her. You can feel from the tone of her voice.. while telling WS she's ok she's also at the same time trying to console herself into believing that shes really ok when shes not... Hear WS's respond to her, it seems like he know they hav too many obstacles to handle at the moment for them to be together and he understands her sadness just as she understands his..

Her wanting to get outta d palace is simply just coz she has had enuf.. like pls la enuf is enuf thats it. for us in real life when thing get soo hard soo tough and u feel miserable being trapped in all d "rubbish nonsensical" stuffs happening around you, will you just stay and be mentally depressed shrivelled and die or would you just pack n go... just blah! WS is not the only 1 who sacrificed, HS also sacrificed alot.. she sacrificed the secrets of her BB cream technique, her limbs, her emotions, her happiness, her bright smile, her laughter, her mental health, her love, her beloved, her "V" (if the lights out means they did it), her time and after all that people see her as useless and not loving WS enough.. to prove her love must she really stay, be like a kamikaze (as in sacrifice her health) be sick slowly shrivelled like a raisin n den die with messed up mind, health, emotions...

Just that alot of people are viewing things from WS's perspective (i know hes a hot royal with a pitiful painful past and enduring love) that i think it is unfair that HS pitiful on-going life is being taken easily (sorry my brain is abit woozy to come up with proper term). HS is young and shes already going thru alot.. she suffer then n now. most of 21st century women are living in d strawberry generation.. abit complain, more work complain, dress dirty complain, food not nice oso complain.. sooo i think she has indeed come a long long way since she first stepped into Goryeo in terms of her behaviour.

Apologies for the long post... i is cannot tahan.. have to rant n let things outta my system before i can digest more MLSHR...

 

Exactly my thoughts! I think audiences are being super biased. They can sympathize with Wang So after all of his killings, but cannot stand HS for not being cunning, not supportive enough for WS. Why? Is it because of IU? Or being plain and kind-hearted means dumb? 

Being thrown back 1000 years is a nightmare I don't dare to dream of. Having those modern mindsets about equality, respect for people despite status is not only an out-of-place luxury but a threat to the very life of the bearer. How many of us here have to witness violent fighting and killing on a daily or monthly basis? If I have to witness one tenth of what Soo has seen, I will go insane, 100% sure. I think with her base as a normal, simple girl who's only good at making people prettier and love them with all of her innocent heart, this girl has survived quite well in Goryeo, and in the cruel royal environment for shouting out loud!

I also think that her original understanding and forgiving manner toward WS was largely based on the fact that she didn't witness his crimes with her own eyes. She only saw WS in a devastating state afterwards, and her caring instinct instantly prompted her to come to the rescue and save WS from that emotional pithole. But in the case of CR, not only CR is her dear friend, but also she witnessed the extreme cruelty of it all with his own eyes, so it's obviously unbearable and unforgivable. 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

I am totally for GJ's decision in exiling Jung. What else can he do with that donkey head of a brother? His hatred toward WS is inconsolable. He openly questions GJ's throne. And if the Yoo clan ever plans a revolt, he definitely will be the leader. He's one of the major threats to GJ's throne. And by exiling him, GJ also fulfilled his promise to HS not to kill any brothers. Honestly, sending him far away is the best way, I don't think GJ can keep calm and act cool with Jung for very long if he keeps hovering around with that annoying disdain look.

And BTW, the Yoo clan is powerful, right? He can go back to them, be a rich spoilt boy and pick up fights to his heart content for the rest of his life. It's not like he has any interest in royal affairs or important work to do in Songak either. What's to complain about this "punishment"? 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Talking about ending. Unlike Rouxi in C-version, Go Ha Jin was in a desperate situation before she drowned and got transported to Goryeo: her best friend and boyfriend betrayed her, took away all her hard earned money (I remember there's a scene where she was being chased by a group of ahjummas. Who could they be? Creditors?) . That means she has nothing left in the modern world but problems. Being thrown to Goryeo is not the nicest option but acceptable for her to build her life anew. However, life in Goryeo sucks, especially for a girl with no powerful family backing. She seldom has the power to decide her fate (don't tell me about the case when Wang So offered her the ticket out of the palace through a marriage, yeah he's generous, she's silly for not embracing the chance but still it's the chance SOMEONE ELSE give her, not something she can generate herself). And inevitably, she dies in sorrow, after suffering a lot, both mentally and physically (I wouldn't wish for such a new life if I knew it would be so miserable.). But what's the good of transporting her back to modern time, with all the problems shoving in her face the moment she wakes up? Is the life in Goryeo supposed to be a counterweight to make her realize that modern life, cruel as it is, is still nothing compared with the life 1000 years ago? And then she will have the strength to deal with those two horrible traitors? I am now super curious about how the writer will deal with the "reborn and come back" scenario. 

About WS and HS separation, I think it's the only way for their love story remains epic and keep them longing for each other for an eternity. You know, unfinished love is always the best! Even if she stays in the palace, the personal trait that once draws them to each other will turn ugly and make them grow tired of each other, just like @violet90 has pointed out. Not to mention HS will constantly be attacked and used as a bait against WS (she doesn't know how to protect herself, does she?). Then WS will have to deal with all the powerful clans while protecting HS. Exhausted, isn't it? 

Ahem, on a lighter note, just imagine HS became WS's queen with no opposition, YH got sent to the Khitan or somewhere far far away (who cares?), WW got executed, WW-HS relationship never came to light or forgotten and forgiven by WS, then the difference in their upbringing and mindset will gradually undermine their relationship in a typical way that marriage does to our once young, passionate, innocent love. Is it new that the things draw you to him/her become annoying once you two get married? She's so clumsy it's cute (before marriage) --> God, that b***ch is lazy, she cannot handle a household properly (after marriage). Or he's a free and wild soul, how romantic! (before marriage) --> He keeps running like a wild horse and never gives a darn 'bout his children and wife (after marriage). 

I have depicted this in my sick brain:

1st time: 

WS: I've just massacred all the monks and set the temple on fire. 

HS: What choice do you have? I don't think I can forgive you, but I understand. 

2st time:

WS: I've just killed my bro. 

HS: (pat shoulder, pull WS in a solace embrace)

3rd time: 

WS: I've executed your ex. I don't deserve forgiveness but I think you'll understand. 

HS: It's OK. I am over him already. He's done too many wrongs to us anyway. 

.

.

.

nth time:

WS: I've grilled the whole court for...

HS: WTH? Did I get married to a meat grinder or what? Do I look like a mental therapist or guilt cleanser to you? I am sick of this bloody routine of yours, I am outta here!!!

 

There, break up early, keep good memories of each other, voila, you'll have something good to remember and regret about for the rest of your life 

 

 

 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

I saw that many of you here want to fry YH and find it unjust if WS has no idea of her role in the tea poisoning incident that nearly killed WS, had HS badly tortured and accidentally killed lady Oh. But I see that this is the turning point in the love triangle. Had it not been YH who was the real culprit, WW wouldn't be forced the dead-end situation and have to cut his tie with HS. It also provided a peculiar chance for WS to make up with HS (I believe that after the premonitions, the forced kiss, the impulsive escape from the palace, their relationship deteriorated considerably). So in short, no YH's scheming, no breaking up between WW and HS, no chance of acceptance for WS. If anything, WS must be grateful to YH, not furious at all .

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Hi eclipses!

Only 2 more eps to go! I was determined to be a silent reader, desperately caught up with this super fast moving thread, tried to read all of your brilliant comments here. But now I gave in. I have to create an account and express my great admiration to you all. There's never been a drama that I enjoy so much, and I think the bigger reason for this sudden engagement is all the insights to the plot and characters you gave me.  

@40somethingahjumma I am so so in love with your posts. Every point is well laid, beautifully said, and gives a sense of utter understanding and sympathizing. There are many things that can I feel from the motives of each characters but cannot articulate them the way you do. Your posts always remind me of the saying "don't judge anyone,you don't know what kind of battle they are fighting". I reckon that you are a forgiving mother figure, who always listens and understands. My hat off to you!

@Adnana I share every single one of your POVs. You know what, you were the reason I started reading this crazily moving thread. Originally I contended myself with reading recaps and comments on Dramabeans. But after episode 12 or 13 (I don't remember exactly), I read a lot of negative comments on HS and felt considerably frustrated and down-mood. Then I bumped into your post, which reasonably explained HS actions in a very forgiving and understandable manner, which gave me the strength to move on with this heart wrenching drama. And now every time I feel that I don't have the nerve to continue this torturous journey to the end, I seek out to your posts and many other brilliant, enlightening posts. 

@briseis LGJ is excellent with his micro-acting skill. But you rock with your scene micro-analyzing skill! I always look forward to your analysis. And after reading it, I rewatch each episode with a great sense of freshness and appreciation. 

@zi4r Your posts challenge my POV every time. I have a tendency to compromise and try to understand all the characters' actions and what the writer presented to us viewers. But your posts always buy me with your sharp observations and persuasive arguments, make me rethink and look up to a bigger picture. Your sarcasms are so fun to read, though sting sometimes when they are totally against my POV. Keep up the great work!

And I couldn't agree more on your analysis of Yeon Hwa. She's an interesting character who's doing everything she could to survive in the male dominant world of Goryeo. However, for her fated position as the disgusting third party between our OTP and the limited screening time, she was depicted as a heartless vicious snake. I've never truly hated her, but I was still drawn to the hate group unconsciously. However, after reading your post, I find enough reasons to root for her and no longer feel heartbroken that she is GJ's queen and will be the mother of his children. Btw, she should have had a drama of her own if possible. 

And if you guys plan to open a critical thinking and writing class, sign me in!