Miaruma
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Posts posted by Miaruma
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@kara_mella I've read your posts and I guess I'll never be able to agree with you, because every example you cite (grabbing the hand etc) are all SB, the only one I would grant you is when CJ visits SB at her home. But again, that's at the very beginning of their relationship and pretty much the only point when the drama acknowledges that SY's feelings influence SB, but I don't think anyone in this thread is denying the fact that SY's feelings have influence over SB, just that it's clear that it's not *just* SY and in fact less and less so as the drama goes along.
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9 minutes ago, kara_mella said:
I beg to differ and repost my explanation here.
I understand... for me perhaps - it's easier to accept this kind of ending bcuz I know more about their culture and I'm familiar with their mentality; that's why - from the very start I couldn't see them SY / BH/ CJ as a possible love tringle or BH falling in love with CJ; the funny part which worked for me was that the guy's spirit was trapped in her body - but could feel all her emotions -/ in the beginning she was so numb that wouldn't resurfaces, but she was there/ -> remember the scene that we commented when the King decided to go after the Queen to kill her - he still had feelings for her - [ the spin offs were elaborated considering the main events of the drama], then after ep 5 - when SB decides to jump into the river [ here again BH is such a selfish bashfhfshf he doesn't care what happens with SY [ she may die drowned, all he wants is to go back; like he didn't care when he unveiled that she tried to kill herself - that alone being such a great dishonor for her - leaving her on shaky ground - with QD and the court thinking or trying to depose her]. BH was driven by SY's feelings - that's why he decides to help CJ - that heart beating too fast when seeing CJ's chest - wasn't his, nope - not his flesh and blood, the beating heart was SY's. She was with him during the first night together, so her heart reacts, her body reacts, it's normal. I like tomboyish SB, but BH belongs to his time, so everything returns to its right place.
ep 20 - when SB kisses CJ he asks - What is this?
SB answers: 몰라, 나도 [ me too] - Which means - I don't know/ I don't have clue why I did that - 나도 - me too - SB is equally surprised; so my point is that SY resurfaces with out any warning and she is convinced now more then never that the King loves her back and wants to be with him during tough times. After the 1st night the King realizes that he can't deny his feelings for the Queen - that's why he answers to SB - 'no, he didn't fall in love just after one night together'.
When seeing that guy with the rifle - SY reacts immediately protecting the CJ - she controls her body, SB doesn't realize what happened - she says' I'm ok, I was startled by the noise'...
Anyway I told you before - I have watched this drama so many times - and there are many misinterpreted scenes due to poor quality adaptation when translation was made, so please don't get me wrong, I've tried to state what I understood and knew better.
But you won't get accurate translation, that is hard to come by.
This is to explain more about SY's decision -
Old-time Koreans believed that becoming an object of rumors was a crime punishable by death. By choosing death, the family was able to prove that the rumor was false and at the same time to restore the family's good standing. Thus, death has been a primary means of communication for Koreans to prove themselves innocent when they are falsely judged and accused [ her conversation with the King before jumping into the lake).
Above all, a Korean would smile over a tragedy, a humiliation, an insult, or an injustice while he weeps inside for sorrow, shame, guilt, and remorse. Thus, within a Korean, two conflicting entities of human nature and emotion co-exist compatibly, simultaneously, and transcendentally: shame and guilt intermingled, sadness and smile coexisting, attachment and detachment interwoven, and self-control and social-control intertwined.
Westerners are likely to make naive judgments about Koreans' verbal and nonverbal language behavior which is really founded upon Korean's self-effacing nature in human relationships. A Westerner's interpretation and comprehension of a Korean's language behavior solely in terms of the ostensible verbal and non-verbal evidence would be too risky to account for cultural discrepancies. Cultural discrepancies which are socio-culturally specific are the products of cognitive structures as well as the idiosyncrasies of particular socio-cultural resources shared and valued among ingroups of many generations. The socio-cultural discrepancies are often labelled as eccentricities from the outgroup's standpoint
I'm sorry, but I have to rebutt here:
First of all, the reaction from the korean audience that I've seen is also mixed, with people being sad (like we are) that Bong Hwan is alone now in the future and how they wanted Cheolbong! Secondly it's not like there haven't been gay characters, even main characters in kdramas before.
Secondly I don't see how you can say that it was only SY's feelings regarding seeing CJ's chest, when the whole episode had been about how SB/BH was feeling about having slept with CJ and coming to the realisation that it was great. Also why would SY who is a Joseon woman come out with friggn ramyun at night? That clearly indicates to me that this is Bong Hwan doing this. Some things don't even depend on translation, they are right there on screen. And with regards to the ep 20 kiss I don't think your reading of that scene is accurate either? To me it reads more that SB is overcome, because they are walking into imminent danger. SB is not someone who is prone to PDA like that so that's why CJ asks where this came from and SB says she doesn't know.
It seems like a reach to say that it's suddenly SY resurfacing when we don't have any evidence of that at all. I'm not even saying that SY's hormones and feelings haven't influenced BH, hell that's why i'm calling her SB, but the one who made all of the decisions was clearly SB and not SY. Why would SY have conflicting feelings about sleeping with CJ(a man)? She loves him, she should rejoice. And if SY really was in charge with all of the emotional beats why is BH not more disgusted with that? Where are the scenes (in the latter half of the drama) with BH clearly not into CJ.
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Yeah I'm sorry, but this is the worst way this could have ended. Not just for Bong Hwan and Cheoljeong, but also So Young? Because she never got to have any closure for herself. Yes SB got colsure for her and i guess they're trying to justify it by saying So Young never left the body, but everything SB achieved as revenge was not done by So Young herself.
If that's the kind of character I'm supposed to root for to be together with CJ, who apparently forgot his own lecture to his former concubine that the connection they had as kids were not why he loved her, but everything they experienced together afterwards. Even if So Young was there as a "silent passenger" ( I almost wrote Dark Passenger, but this isn't that kind of Drama), she's not the one who really was there. She was extremely unhappy in the palace and literally killed herself because of that unhappiness, but now everything is cool so she can take back "possession" of her life? This just feels cheap and unearned.
I would have been fine with an ending that separated Cheoljong and SB, with Bong Hwan returning to the future and both of them having to deal with being alone. It might have been bitter sweet but at least it wouldn''t have invalidated 19 episodes of plot and romance development in such a terrible way.
This drama made me so mad it made me dust off this account!
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Whoo hello everyone,
haven't been to this forum in ages, but this drama has made me want to talk about stuff again \o/. I think it was that scene in ep 5 that really made me go "Ohhhh", the one where DH is kind of dozing off open eyed in the train and JA nudges him with her foot once they reach their stop. That little moment had so many layers to me. First we have JA actively reaching out to DH without a prior objective, which I don't think happened before and probably hasn't been a thing JA has done for years. Added to that was the fact that it was such a stark contrast to their prior physical contact that she initiated because it was such a minor thing you might do with someone you're comfortable with or even consider a friend, which it doesn't really look like either of them have outside their immediate family?
And then we get the kind of meta interpretation that I had when I saw that scene. DH is staring into nothing, not paying attention to the world, as he's been kind of doing during the whole drama and before the story started. And then JA knocks him awake literally and figuratively so he actually has to wake up and face reality and start doing things. This, coupled with the way their connection doesn't feel forced and despite their age difference doesn't feel creepy really makes me happy. I like it when two characters can give each other something they had been missing before.
I am unsure if I want them to have a romantic relationship though. It could be done, but currently I think both of them are way too damaged to have a relationship that lasts and what both of them need is just someone who can understand what they are going through without needing an explanation (it does ofc help that JA has that wiretap, but even without it they had an understanding of each other that went beyond words).
The weakest part of the drama for me currently are the brothers and their stories. While I understand that they provide some much needed levity and contrast, the shift feels very jarring because the stuff JA and DH are going through just have a lot more emotional weight.
Still though, i was hesitant at first, because I didn't enjoy the writer's previous drama and main female character but I am loving JA so far and that added with the gorgeous cinematography really feels like TvN picked another winner :D.
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17 minutes ago, Academycute101 said:
I never even noticed the thing about the green. Wow
. What does it mean?I don't think it has to mean anything, maybe it will in the future, but right now, to me it just seems to connect YJ with her outside status in the W-World and in the ending scene of ep 4 it connects KC as an outsider to the real world, or at least that's how I interpret him landing among all that green. Because just like YJ doesn't (or didn't use to) belong in the W-World KC as a person doesn't belong in the real world. And in that way it connects the two of them together, because they now both have outsider-status . Let's see if this trend continues :D.
Haha, oop, i guess I contradicted myself >.> looks like I do think it has a meaning.
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Okay, since this is going to get long and my caps are pretty big, I'll put it behind a spoiler.
W - A Study in Colour Use
(as noticed by me, so this is probably all bad conjecture but who knows!)
Warning: this is long and probably a bit more than slightly insane, but that's what this show does to me!
SpoilerThe use of colour in this show is pretty amazing in my opinion and looking through the eps, so deliberate that I can't help but make these crazy connections.
The first thing I noticed, and therefor the first thing I will show, is how green is used by the show when either OYJ is being threatened or in danger, or when she travels to and from the W-world.
The first time OYJ wakes up in the W world she is surrounded by the green of the roof hotel:
She's not surrounded by green when she comes back to the real world, but the next time she travels, she is standing in front of a cafe, but what we as the audience see is that once again she is surrounded by green:
Which carries her over into the W-world, where the green is shown to us via a tv screen to connect the two backgrounds:
And this time when she returns to the real world she is quite literally framed in green:
Now, I've also said that green also denotes when she is in danger, but that is a bit wrong, mostly it's when she is isolated from the W-world because she doesn't belong there.
The third time she goes to the W-world I didn't notice any particularly green bits, just shades on the store walls, so I might be off with my theories, but oh well.
Here we have SH basically leading YJ to her arrest, flanked by green:
And as she sits by herself in the restaurant, her isolation and indeed her alien-ness become even more pronounced:
She is quite literall put into the green corner:
and could not stick out like a sore thumb more, if she tried:
It's kind of like an arrow pointing at her going: Look at her, she's different from everyone else!!
After her arrest and during her interrogation, the interrogation room is again green and she can only sit there alone and miserable because she is unable to talk about the truth.
and using the shot I've already shown before, you can basically see how these two characters are from two different worlds, with SH surrounded by her primary colour red, or shades of it (I'll come back to that later) and YJ once again surrounded by green and isolated behind bars and by a truth that is impossible to say out loud.
What is also interesting: In Goethe's Theory of Colour, green and red are complementary colours (meaning they are across from each other on the colour wheel and thus have the most contrast from one another) and green was associated with the notion of 'useful' and red with 'beautiful'. That doesn't necessarily mean of course that this was when they thought about it, but it's something that came to me while I was thinking about it. And when a show has me googling about the evolution of colour theory, you know it's good :D.
When YJ returns to the real world the last time, the only green comes from the trees surrounding her, but unlike her previous return where the framing was close, this time she is isolated, even in her own, real world.
Anyway enough about YJ, let's talk about SH for a bit. The colour scheme I noticed for her was mainly on her wearing a lot of red-based colours, and red is in some colour theories the complement of blue or cyan which is KCs primary colour.
As seen above, she wears red when she confronts YJ about her not admitting to the truth, but even the first time we meet her she is wearing pink:
And the second time we see her she is wearing a sort of salmon-pink (with matching lipstick ofc :D):
Now, she doesn't only wear red-based colours, but considering her (so far) limited screen time, it does seem to be her main one, but maybe that'll change as the series goes along.
Now we come to the main character of this show, and I think it's pretty undeniable to say that KC's main colour is blue. In fact, blue seems to be a very important colour when it comes to the 'villains' as well, but seeing as I don't know enough about the story there yet and we mostly see them at night time, so blue would not be so unusual, I am a bit hesitant to go on a conjecture hunt there (yet).
The first time we see KC wearing non-bloodied/non hospital clothes and he's with our main heroine, he's wearing this denim-on-denim number, probably to show off how he is 70% leg (not that I blame him, they are nice legs!):
Of course, the hoodie he was wearing when he stood on the Han river bridge was blue as well:
and as others have noted, rain also plays a pretty big symbolic role
Another dramatic example is his blue suit in ep 3:
and after he takes of his suit jacket, the contrasts between him and YJ are extremely obvious, him in black and her in white:
Not only is he threatening her, the distance between them in this shot is enormous, signifying the distance between them emotionally in this moment. Usually they're a lot closer together, and shortly after this moment she is in his arms once again, the distance having been crossed (since he shot her and she didn't bleed. Oh KC, you are a bit of an odd duck. Not that I mind, but please don't do that again...)
In this scene they've basically switched colours, now he's the one in white and she's wearing blue, and he tells her he knows she can't escape/run away without him, He will protect her, basically acting as her conduit in this world, but he also sort of has ownership of her now.
He doesn't wear much blue in ep 4, nor is there much blue around him, but remember how green surrounds YJ when she crosses worlds? Well, guess what happens to KC when he comes to the real world:
So. Much. Green. Now he's in YJ's world, and though she isn't in the scene, he's visually connected to her just by his surroundings.
Of course, much like the scene on the Han river bridge, he does a power-walk in the rain, bathed in blue:
It looks like (very bright) night time, but that is a lot of blue, so I had to include it.
Also, the truck that almost killed KC when he matrixed himself to safety was also blue, but this ties into the villain thing for which I don't have enough clues yet, so i'm not including it yet.
Anyway, if you've made it this far, THANK YOU, and I hope you don't think i'm completely insane, haha!
I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I've missed, or maybe you've come to different conclusions or have additional ideas. Please tell me, I love talking about this kind of stuff (if that's not painfully evident yet :D.
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I've rewatched the show from the beginning again, and I'm really appreciating the directing. Everyone looks so gorgeous at all times (not that they wouldn't anyway, but the directing does help a lot) and there are some definite color themes going on. Would anyone be interested in me doing a post on things I've noticed?
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Oh my god, this show continues to deliver and I couldn't be happier.
KC had his Matrix moment and I loved the way that whole scene was shot, with the way the two of them were separated by the glass, sitting in their own ~rooms almost, like they were separated by the realities. So far in every other scene with KC and OYJ they were together, with no barrier between them. But this time there was a literal and figurative barrier between them as OYJ finally told him the truth and KC's world pretty much literally fell apart around him.
But the barrier thing was a whole motif this episode, which was great. This scene with OYJ and SH in jail:
when we look at them in profile with the bar between them, they're also separated by colours, with OYJ bathed in green, once again, which is another motif i've been noticing. The interrogation cell was green, the hotel roof where OYJ first appeared was green, this prison cell is green, so it's always been most noticeable when OYJ is in danger or under stress. This just makes me appreciate the directing all the more, since I love seeing things like this.
But man this was such a great shot, you could not emphasize the distance between the two of them more, they're not just separated by the fact that SH is part of the manhwa world, but also because she is trying to protect KC from what she thinks is danger, which is really funny considering that she is the one wearing red, aka the colour of danger and that's what she poses to OYJ.
I'll have to rewatch the ep again, because my head is still so full of crazy thoughts haha, but ah I'm so glad this show is firing on all cylinders.
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Hoooly crap that 3rd ep.
I knew this writer was good, QIHM is my favourite drama, but this seems once again like a perfect blend of writing, acting and directing. So glad we got to see more of KC's character this time, and wow LJS is really good at being charming but also turning on the dangerous vibe in a second. When he shot OYJ I almost screamed, because what a scene to have between the two main leads. Granted, she wasn't going to die, since the story would be over, but since KC was aware of that this scene wasn't just something to shock the viewer with it actually furthered the plot, which is nice.
I also love how this ep already answered a whole host of questions (When did KC start ~influencing his story, how self-aware he was etc), and but asked a lot more too. What are the rules for OYJ to be called over into the W world? Why can't she die? Is she invulnerable in general? Or just unable to die via gun/knife/whathaveyou?
I can't wait for ep 4 now, the preview looks amazing and the speed at which the plot moves makes guessing games fun, because both our main characters are smart enough to figure stuff out on their own really quickly, so we as viewers don't have to watch them trying to suss out information we as viewers are privilege to for an overly long time. Really the way KC and OYJ are smart (and almost ruthless) about gathering information is so great for me.
And once again the writer seems to make very quick headway into the romance, which I approve of, hopefully we'll have more kissing scenes (preferably with both of them being into it :D), KC being very direct with his flirting and OYJ being clearly not that averse - who could say no to that wink though, let's be fair - is really making me enjoy this ride. I can't wait to see what else the story has in store for us!
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*blows dust off of account* Soooo, this sure is shaping up to be epic :O! Epic enough to make me check out my soompi account again haha.
My impressions/speculations so far: Awesome set up, both worlds feel really distinct and there are enough characters in both that I don't yet prefer one over the other, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind spending more time with KC since he is still very much a cypher.
OYJ is interesting, she's clearly smart enough to figure out the rules of the manwha-world, and I love that she doesn't let her Dad gaslight her into believing the W world isn't real or that something weird isn't happening, but she is still a bit deer-in-headlights a lot. Albeit understandably so, but I hope we quickly move on to the teamup between them, because that should be pretty amazing.
Dad is such an interesting character, an author who is desperately trying to kill his own character, but keeps getting thwarted by his own daughter and eventually his own main character. I don't think Dad is the main villain, because that would make for a boring villain from what we've seen of him. Looks like something is up and Dad is in way over his head and trying desperately to get control back of his creation.
Or is KC really his creation? I really want to know what the deal is, and especially what happens now that KC is becoming aware there's an ~outside force. Is a character even fictional if he's aware of that fact?
Ah, so many questions, I really hope they get answered or at least adressed.
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. What does it mean?
[Drama 2020/2021] Queen Cheorin/Mr. Queen, 철인왕후
in k-dramas & movies
Posted
I don't think anyone cornered or scolded anyone in this thread. But if you post your opinions you can't expect not to be challenged on them if someone disagrees? Especially if you try to underline them with facts and concepts.