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ladysaotome

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Bojun said:

    Just finished the drama and the ending was not actually as bad as I thought it would be because of Seon-mi's death. I like the open-ended ending and even thought I doubt there will be a part 2, as least the drama ended on a positive note.

    One thing I liked was when Son Oh-gong and the Demon King were discussing a "hotel for spirits" while overlooking the river were the black dragon was killed. Is this just coincidence or they were actually alluding to Hotel del Luna which was also written by the Hong sisters?

     

    Hotel del Luna was written after Hwayugi so who knows?! That's a cool idea though. lol

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, Leejea Jin said:

    and what happend in the last episode did she return as a ghost for a while and then disappeared ?

     

    Sorta. 

    Spoiler

    Basically, since she is dead she has gone on to the underworld where she waits for judgement and reincarnation (or being rewarded with paradise). But to get Oh Gong's memory back, they use the star necklace to bring her back - she's kind of like a ghost only people can see her and she can touch things - she has a physical, magical kind of body - but it's only for 24 hours and then she has to go back to the underworld. But since Oh Gong gave her one of his eyes, he can go find her now - even if the gods try to disguise her/hide her, he'll be able to find her no matter what. And even though they don't show it, we know he storms into the underworld, causes all kinds of chaos, grabs Sun Mi and runs off with her. And they live happily ever after - probably dropping in on Ma Wong and causing him all kinds of stress on a regular basis.

     

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    On 4/6/2018 at 4:55 PM, Leejea Jin said:

    can someone explain why KDS killed Buja?, and after Sun mi died what did the world told the reason she died? like an accident or did she just disappear 

     

    The first time he killed her, it was an accident. He was drunk-driving and ran. The 2nd time was to cover up the secret. As for Sun Mi, yes, they said there'd been an accident while she was driving back from visiting her hometown. That's why her secretary cried over her death.

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    6 hours ago, ilovejasminnie said:

    Curious.

     

    Does anyone know what kind of monster/creature Mawang's son is? :)

     

    Do you mean is he associated with an animal the way Oh Gong, Ma Wang, PK & Secretary Ma are? I don't believe he is - he's just another magical being like Sa Oh Jong. Looks like in dramas, games, etc., he's usually portrayed in red/orange clothes since his big ability is special fire which he can shoot from his eyes, nose & mouth.

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    1 hour ago, YourHighness . said:

    And SOG used to be very narcissistic and the fact that the humans forgot him after he helped them out and got imprisoned that must have stuck in his craw. I am not surprised he felt so betrayed even though he didn't care about humans.

     

    This. If the book is anything to go by, all he pretty much ever cared about was himself and maybe his kingdom on monkeys. And remember how massively callous he was in the first episode? He may have felt betrayed by the humans but it was a childish, narcissistic betrayal. It didn't form who he was, if anything it just probably reinforced his previous notions. I always felt the main point of the mermaid episode was 1) the way the Sun Mi took the mermaid's side once she understood the facts - that, I think, was a huge and unexpected act from Oh Gong's perspective  2) the way he identified with the mermaid in the fact that Sun Mi may choose to not return his love (which he was confronted with again at the end when Jonathan turns up) and the whole "is he as pitiful as the mermaid" question which she answered both of which were her taking huge steps toward him and his point of view. 

     

    I do think the episode flags the human betrayal issue as something bigger than it ended up being though. They should have either not said anything or explained it right away because the way we heard about it later was deflating.

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    On 3/10/2018 at 3:09 PM, briseis said:

    So what happened? How terrible it must have been to make OG lose all trust in humans forever? Who betrayed him - a man or a woman? Did OG care for that person? Did he love him/her? 

     

     

    I thought they explained this with the story about him stopping the smoke from the mountains and how he did it for attention, not for humankind's sake, and that's why he was punished and the humans didn't care?

     

     

    I think it says something about how much this drama resonated with people (and how empty the ending left us) that this thread is still going strong over a week after the finale aired. :heart:

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

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    Posted

    11 hours ago, YourHighness . said:

     

    BTW, I think even SOG mentioned that they "Buja, SF, Prince...even SOG himself" will disappear when they die. He said so to Frosty when he instructed him on what to tell JSM if he shattered/broke to pieces during his fight with the evil Dragon and disappeared. Even the Prince said that he will disappear when he puts out the fire that was killing PK. 

     

    But does "disappear" mean gone forever? I really doubt it. Gone from this world but I would imagine they get sent to the same underworld for another cycle too? (Looks like in the original story PK was originally in the heavenly realms but got himself banished to earth as a punishment and accidentally got reincarnated half-pig-demon instead of human and retained his memories. So if he got reincarnated, I would think Summer Fairy and Dragon Prince will be too?)

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    2 hours ago, haymochi said:

    I thought their soul perished because just like in ep 10. When the book demon trapped the kids soul,  MW said these kids will have no chance of going to heaven or be reincarnated. 

     

     

     

    I'm not sure about the others but this was because she trapped their souls in books instead of letting them go to the underworld. Once Oh Gong defeated her, all the souls were released.

     

    As for Bu Ja, I'm thinking/hoping her soul just got shoved out when ASN took over her body and she went on to the underworld too. Bu Ja's soul wasn't in the room with all the human's she'd eaten that she planned to feed her fake-son-zombie. 

    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    So I've been doing a lot of reading (thanks so much for those chapters @Zelda) and here's the combination of my very incomplete understanding of the mythology behind the cut. But first - quick question - why is everyone so convinced Summer Fairy, Dragon Prince & Bu Ja are gone forever with no chance of going to the underworld and/or possible reincarnation? What am I not understanding there? 

     

    And here's my guess at the mythology compiled from several different sites. All terms left in Chinese. Please let me know anything I have messed up!

    Spoiler
    The 36 level of Heavens and 36 Grounds

    There are both 36 heavens and 36 grounds in this universe. In the 36th level of heaven lives the most Original Supreme God. Which is the highest, mightiest and powerful one. 

    On the 35th level of the heaven lives the Spiritual Treasure Supreme God. As for the 34th level of Heaven lives the Ethics Virtues Supreme God which has been said to have once incarnated to Lao Tse / Lao Zi who was the founder of Taoism. 

    These above mentioned 3 are the top 3 gods in the Taoism (universe). 

    The Jade Emperor lives in the 33rd heaven. He is the overall king of gods being in charge of 33 heavens, 36 grounds which is inclusive of the legendary hell and not forgetting to oversee the mortal world.
    The Underworld
     

    The underworld Feng-Du is a tangled mix of Taoist, Buddhist and traditional folk legend. The versions are very similar but differ a little bit. In one version Feng-Du is not actually underground but housed in an enormous mountain on the other side of the astral plane. In another, the underworld is under the sea, or beneath the sea bed. But all legends agree that it’s a dark and sinister place something like a prison complex. The whole place is a very complicated underground maze. 

    There are 18 levels (in some versions there are many more) and scattered between these 18 levels there are 10 palace levels with courts ruled by a respective king/judge in each. (The exact number of courts sometimes varies based on the source.)

    The Underworld is where everyone goes upon death. Officers escort the dead across the NAI HE QIAO (奈何橋), a bridge. After crossing this bridge are the main gates.  They take the dead to the office of YEN-LO-WANG, the King of Feng-Du. There they are registered, given an identity card, and sucked into the mire of Underworld bureaucracy. No doubt it’s all computerized by now.

    Then it’s off to the first Court of Qin Guan Wang (秦廣王蔣), who is in charge of people's date of birth and death. The court inside this first palace is in the hall and it is also the entry door to Feng-Du. There the dead face the Mirror of Retribution/Reflection. In this mirror all of the things that they have done while living will be reflected like a movie or drama. This mirror is 50-feet wide and 10-feet high on the stage. The mirror is also known as Sin Mirror or Karma Mirror. 

    This is where the dead really get to have a chance to look at themselves and what they have done in life - have they been good or bad, etc... After they have seen everything, the king makes his verdict based on what the mirror has reflected. 
     

    Particularly virtuous souls may find themselves excused from further judgment and sent on vacation to paradise. The truly righteous take the Golden Bridge straight to eternal happiness in Western Paradise. This is a one-way trip and very few get to make it. This Pure Land is presided over by the Buddha Amitābha, and after encountering Amitābha face-to-face, the soul could finally achieve what institutional Buddhism called nirvāṇa -- complete release from the cycle of birth and rebirth. Thus, a soul choosing the Western Pure Land attained salvation from the cosmos itself. 

    The not-quite-so-righteous take the Silver Bridge to the dull but comfortable Southern Paradise. There they get a little vacation before plunging back into the rebirth cycle. (Or in some versions the Silver Bridge led to Heaven, which was an important domain of the cosmos. Heaven was ruled by the Jade Emperor and populated by gods and heavenly officials. The soul entering into Heaven via the Silver Bridge would be reborn as a god and become an important figure in the cosmos.) Some versions say the righteous soul gets to choose between the gold and silver bridge.
     
    Everyone else has to repent and suffer punishment for their sins. 

    There are different levels to punish depending on the sins. Some only go to one or two levels, really evil people pass through several levels. They are all gruesome & I'm not going into them since we know Sun Mi won't end up there. :tongue:
     
    QIN-GUANG-WANG also rules the fate of souls who have met untimely deaths by accident or misfortune. Such people may be let off lightly if they haven’t lived long enough to accumulate spiritual brownie points.

    Initially Yen Lo Wang (閻羅王包), the god of death, was in charge of the first court. However, he was a bit of a softie and had a tendency to always send the dead who died of injustices back into the mortal world to clear up their false charges and was demoted to the fifth palace of hell. (Some versions say he was sending far too many people across the golden bridge and Paradise was getting crowded.) However Yen Lo Wang is still ruler over all of Feng-Du and has a team of deadly assistants. His filing system contains the records of every soul, complete with their allotted death date. (In Journey to the West MONKEY once paid him a visit and wreaked havoc, so we imagine security has been tightened up since then.)
     
    Once a person has repented fully and suffered all their punishments, they are sent to the final, Tenth Court where ZHUANG-LUN-WANG passes his final judgment and decides the manner of their next existence. (Human being or slug, etc.) 
     
    Some versions say the dead takes a boat across a river, to where Lady MENG-PO is waiting. Either way, anyone bound for reincarnation ends up seeing her. She gives the Tea of Forgetfulness, which erases memory.  The only thing that passes from one incarnation to the next is Karma, which is why no-one remembers their past lives.  
    Then the person goes for a ride on the Wheel of Life/Reincarnation. Wind and clouds billow out from the circle in the centre and the six other circles surrounding it. Depending on the person's past life, they will pass through one of the seven holes which determines how he or she will be reborn.
     
    Round and round they go, faster and faster, until they shoot off into the void and land in the body of a newborn baby. Or, if they haven’t repented enough, the body of a slug.  Or if their karma is really bad, they are stuck in Feng-Du and sent back for more punishment.
     
    This next part is confusing and I really don't understand it clearly but my best guess is I think reincarnation has two aspects: 1) what the person reincarnates as and 2) where they reincarnate.
    ZHUANG-LUN-WANG  decides what the person  will be reincarnated as:

    First Way : Wealthy and powerful human
    Second Way : Birds
    Third Way : Farmers and laborers
    Fourth Way : Working class folk
    Fifth Way : Dragons, fish, crabs, insects or sea creatures
    Sixth Way : Lions, tigers, horses, deer, elephant or other four-legged animals
    Seventh Way : Poor, lonely and the destitute
     
    The person's karma determines which hole on the Wheel of Reincarnation/Life they pass through which sends them to one of the realms.

    1) God Realm (天道) : Devas 
    2) Demi-God/Monster/Spirit Realm (修罗道) : Asura /Titan/yogwe
    3) Human Realm (人道)
    4) Animal Realm (畜生道)
    5) Hungry Ghost Realm (饿鬼道) : Petra  
    6) Hell Realm (地狱道) : Naraka 
     

    Again, apologies if I messed anything up. Please correct anything I've gotten wrong!

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    I've been thinking and maybe I don't understand completely how kdramas work but aren't writers still subject to the decisions of the directors and tv channels? Isn't it slightly possible they wanted a scene of Sun Mi waiting or something like that and someone else vetoed it?

     

    (Just wondering if there's a small chance it wasn't the Hong sisters who made that decision. I went into this drama terrified the ending would be bad and then got caught up in it and forgot to be cautious. I'd prefer to keep a little bit of faith in the writers if there's a chance it wasn't their fault, despite the fact they killed Sun Mi.)

     

    And if they can't make another season or a movie, maybe at least hoping for a special or an extended scene on the dvd... *wishful thinking* :dissapointed:

     

     

    (I've been a huge fan of LSG since Brilliant Legacy but I'd never seen OYS before. She was great, I'll have to check out her other dramas.)

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, butterflyeffect said:

    Oh dear god, I hope they don’t make a season 2 either...

     

    Most of us were invested in LSG+OSY and their chemistry which is why this show worked...Idk how they’d pull it off again with different actors. I tried to get over that ending but I just ....  Hwayugi was my weekend escape from reality and (not to be dramatic) but for it to end like that just spiraled me into a deeper darkness. I was so ready to forgive all the flaws if we got that true “happily ever after”. lmao.

    Lesson learned: don’t become too emotionally invested in that one TV show.

     

     

    This. All of this. :bawling:

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

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    Posted

    1 hour ago, ukeindo19 said:

    So that's my version. Do you have yours?

     

    Ok, So here's my fanfiction version: Oh Gong keeping the GGG had two purposes. 1) In case he died, so she'd not feel so bad thinking his love was fake (even though he was wrong, since she'd have still missed him horribly). 2) In case she died, so he'd be able to go get her back - he knew the ownership would change and he deliberately wiped his own memory afterwards. Ma Wang was in on the plan so he could suggest to Elder that they send Seon Mi to get off the GGG. It was all a ruse so when Oh Gong got his memory back, he could give her his eye and be able to track her. (He traded eyes so he can see through the one she has and she can see through the one he has and they always can see what the other sees.)

     

    After they promised to find each other, SOG left the next day heading to the Underworld where people wait years to be reincarnated. PK & Winter General find out what SOG is up to and run after him wanting to help and also find Bu Ja, Octopus Dragon, and Summer Fairy since they know if anyone can do this, Oh Gong can. (I know they aren't all supposed to be there but idc - somehow, they are.) 

     

    Oh Gong (with a tiny bit of help from the others) blows the gates off, storms inside, causing all kinds of chaos. They find the Book of Life/Death and erase Seon Mi & Bu Ja's names from it (Summer Fairy was never human so she's not on it, don't ask me to explain. lol). In the meantime, the others aren't sitting around waiting, they're causing their own trouble since they know Oh Gong and crew are coming. They all eventually run into each other and and they whisk off to Ma Wang's new hotel. Meanwhile Ma Wang has finally gotten enough points and become a deity so he is able to get his wife back and acknowledge his son. Seon Mi & Oh Gong finally have a wedding with everyone there, MW playing the piano. And someday they have a baby who looks like SOG. And they all live happily ever after, spending their days vanquishing evil spirits so there won't ever be enough gathered in the world to create another black dragon - that way there never has to be another Sam Jang and the cycle is broken. And since the heavenly realms are happy not to have to worry about an apocalypse ever again, they let them go.

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    9 hours ago, YourHighness . said:

    I thought my disappoint would end after sleep but sadly it didn't and I am still feeling empty and unsatisfied. I need closure.

     

    So I am just going to pretend that SOG always intended to bring back JSM's soul from the Land of Dead after she died in his arms but his plan was thwarted by him loosing his memory. Infact, I will even imagine that he magically preserved her body so he can bring back her soul once again in it(they never showed that he burned her or buried her. Even LHJ questioned why there was no body found of hers). After they promised to find each other, SOG left the next day itself to the Land of Dead. He found the Book of Life/Death and erased her name from it. He found her(No one would stop them since her name is no longer in the books) and he winked her soul to Sereumdong to let her enter her magically preserved body. Then he took her to the heavens to eat the immortality peach and the magic pill. Now she is an immortal and whether the skyland kicks them out again or not, they will live happily ever after, have a wonderful wedding with MW playing the piano and PK sing.They will have a baby who looks like SOG and maybe JSM could even come out of hiding in the real world since her body was never found and so she was never declared dead. With SOG being such a public figure, they will just pretend she lost her memories momentarily and she will let LHJ(maybe he will comment on how similar their baby looks to the one SOG brought to the office once) continue running her business while she lives as Mrs. CEO of the M group.

     

    Sigh..how I wish. So much potential this show had and how it disappointed me. BTW I agree with many here that it felt like they kept it open ended for potential Season 2 but I really doubt that will happen since the cast was so star studded. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they just stuck with LSG and OYS in S2 and went ahead with different characters but I still doubt it will happen.

     

    And since we can pretend whatever we want, PK finds out what SOG is up to and tags along and  when they find JSM, she's with BuJa & Summer Fairy (I don't care if they aren't supposed to be there!) and they rescue them all and they run back to live at Ma Wang's hotel with him. And Ma Wang finally gets enough points and becomes a deity so he is able to bring his wife back and acknowledge his son and they all live happily ever after. 

    9 hours ago, Zelda said:

    Here are the links to the four posts I have written so far (with sections) explaining the kinds of spirits and other supernatural terms: One, Two, Three, Four. Though I am actually working on compiling and revising that information into a new post with lots of other new info on symbolism, the objects used, references to Journey to the West, and other cultural/religious/folkloric background that was used in this show. Whenever a drama has a rich folkloric or historical background, I like to study and then create a nice little guidebook/glossary with all that info bundled together. I find it makes for a richer (re)viewing experience, and makes me better able to follow and appreciate new fantasy and/or historical dramas in the future. If anyone's interested in it, I hope to have it posted here sometime in the next couple of weeks.

    ---

     

    @ladysaotome If you would like to know more about the netherworld as it is portrayed in Journey to the West, then this chapter portrays Son Oh Gong's own trip into it, and these three chapters (chap10, 11, 12) follow other characters trip there and back. The reasons and rate at which characters come back to life in JTTW is rather incredible. I know of five characters so far, and I'm not near done with reading the whole story! (If you're like me and sometimes wonder at the mechanics and reasoning behind which characters in Chinese fantasy webnovels transmigrate into another body, I think JTTW chapters 11-12 were the inspiration for that.)

    ....but leaving all that aside I must admit I started grinning when it was revealed that Oh Gong was going to go get Sun Mi from the underworld. That is exactly what I would expect him to do, and since I know what he did in Journey to the West, I have every faith that he will succeed. If Oh Gong goes to get Sun Mi, before reincarnation, then she will still remember her love for him.

     

    I loved your posts on terms, @Zelda, I pinned them so I'll always be able to find them. And I'll be looking forward to your guidebook/glossary! :)  Thanks for the chapters. I'm already planning to read Journey to the West but those will be very interesting to read. I've seen bits of Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms so I'll have to check it out more. As for your thoughts about Oh Gong going to get Sun Mi, I felt the exact same way. I knew he was going to kick butt and succeed. And I wanted to smile but couldn't through the tears.  Frankly, is some ways, his giving her his eye so he can find her felt so smart I wanted to believe he planned the entire memory situation on purpose to manipulate the heavens into sending her back so he'd be able to give her his eye and go find her. 

     

    Personally I'm just 1) mad that he has to go get her at all because imo his winning against the GGG should have meant he could win against the deadly fate/heavens plans enough for Sun Mi to not die at all since that was the one thing he was begging the peddler woman when she told him he could change his fate and 2) I wanted to see her again - they could have even shown her waiting for him, knowing he's coming - maybe him seeing through the eye he gave her or something - just anything to connect them a bit if they didn't want to show us him storming the gates or driving off with her. 

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, VanillaSalt said:

    at the very least i thought this would end like Arang and the magistrate. I think they ended up in heaven together eventually, right? 

     

    Spoiler

    Arang ended with both of them reincarnated children but they had not drunk the water that would wipe their memories. 

     

    5 minutes ago, ParvinStar said:

    Have you seen the movie that was released this year? Alnong the gods: two worlds ( I think this was the title) where a fireman dies and he is escorted by two gods to pass underworld and he has to pass 7 gates I think. If he pass all seven he becomes deity or incarnate something like that. So in the movie they show underworld. I think in the drama they meant something like that 

     

    I haven't but I'll look it up. Thanks!

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, stroppyse said:

     

    However, now my work on this thread is done, so unless there are any questions, or requests for translations of scenes that don't have a clip, I'll say goodbye again. Hope to see everyone on another drama thread, hopefully one that won't break my heart with an open ending. Thanks for making this such a great thread to be have been a part of. :)

     

     

    Thank you for all your hard work! 

    .....

    I was thinking and we never found out who the grandma/peddler really was. She just disappeared again. And what happened to her statement that OG could change heavens plans? If this drama had a message it seems to be the heavenly realm sucks.

     

    Are there any dramas/manwha/blog posts explain or show the underworld? Cause I just keep picturing greek mythology or Coco-type scenes or the halls of the dead from The Silmarillion and stuff like in Arang and the magistrate when she crossed the river in the boat....

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    32 minutes ago, butterflyeffect said:

    Technically it's happy, but you'll feel extremely empty and unfulfilled.

     

    Exactly. I've cried and cried and need a little something more for closure. When a drama leaves you needing (or writing) fanfiction to finish the story, they didn't wrap it up well enough. 

     

    I never thought SM would be rewarded for her part - the previous SJ & guardian obviously weren't. But we'd been promised a chance for OG to circumvent their fate and it didn't really  happen. Just because he wasn't the one to do it isn't enough of a change. But even then I'd have been ok if we saw him storming the gates of the underworld and her smiling knowing he was there, or them driving off together, or anything like that. There's not a shadow of doubt in my mind he'll do it but us not seeing it felt like a cheat. 

     

    And I thought it absolutely unbelievable they just hugged and didn't at least kiss before she disappeared.

     

    Now I'm going to go take a shower, sob buckets, and write a sequel in my head so I can sleep tonight. :bawling:

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    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, YourHighness . said:

    Allow me to help out. While kissing, he removed her coat, then he picked her up in his arms and walked to the bedroom(all the while kissing). Then he placed her on the bed and climbed in himself. After that more kissing. :ph34r:

     

    Basically we were cheated from seeing the whole thing...just saying. :tongue::lol:

     

     

    Or he just wooshed them while kissing - *poof!* :lol:

    • LOL 9

    [Drama 2017-2018] A Korean Odyssey/Hwayugi 화유기

    in k-dramas & movies

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, akoomy said:

     

    We don't have proof that they don't get along from the little material we got and I think most the BTS of them is rehearsing or filming, when they're supposed to be serious. Reminder that they have to shoot 2 hour episodes every week, so little sleep, you dont feel like laughing all the time. LSG did say OYS is the coolest actress he's worked with when they started filming tho

     

    I would bet some of it is self-preservation too. People may complain she seems too reserved but I bet the Antis would come out in droves if she acted to chummy with their oppa who just got out of military service...

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