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tiger457_stv last won the day on May 6 2018

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  1. I agree with you that this is the end of the tale....and a beginning. On one side is the start of true civilization which often coalesce into larger entities like country, nation, empire. On the other side is the formation of more loosely associated federation of tribes. The former nation/empire clearly has an advantage in manpower and weaponry (the discovery of steel) and a warrior class (they have more wealth so can devote time and treasure to train a professional army...like the daekan group). they also has better organization and a clear war plan...they know what they want and how to do that. Plus they have a city wall to protect their city.... many attacks by barbarians against cities have failed due to the attackers running out of food and have to leave. the fedieration has strength in a united leader (temporarily, unless he gets killed) but their war plan is unclear, disjointed, and the tribes too independent and may not stick together when things go bad. They don't have as much training either. Their last advantage is that they are familiar with their home terrain and can do ambushes against the attackers. they better stay on the defense of their homeland to stand a chance against the nation/empire. Throughout history there are many cases of large empires unable to conquer small states and both exist concurrently (England and Scotland, Yuan Dynasty and Annam....). So the thought by some Soompian that Eunseon people will ultimately win is highly premature. In any case this reader does not think they will make a sequel (although that would be highly interesting in how the writer think of what is important, freedom or orderliness ….or both).
  2. @sasha1818 said "ES has been flailing nonstop for the past 16 episodes and we finally have some sort of breakthrough today. I just want to say that out of all the characters, I find him the least interesting because he's a spot of pure white in a world of grey. And I think that's why he doesn't fit for me in this show because everyone else seems to have more layered intentions whereas he's just forever doing the good thing. Which is awesome in real life but sucks to watch onscreen. He's like the antithesis of Robert from GOT where Robert conquered and then had no freaking clue what to do. ES would make an awesome King but his path there seems to be by sheer luck and literally, the wills of the god. " This reader agree with you about Eunseon. If Arthdal is broken down, what can Eunseon do? He knows nothing about governing, Will he abolish taxation and the guards also? Make everyone equal so they can equally try to kill each other and create a world of chaos? He cannot even read! Tanya would make a better leader in that she is very smart and think clearly and can choose to do things that is bad if the alternative is worse.... the judgment of the white mountain tribe's leadership is a great example. she did not want to punish the innocent children, but she was a priestess, powerless even to protect her tribe... so she did the next best thing, by turning the inevitability into her favor. She is a realist and in her core will do whatever to protect her people. BUT she is a woman, and is not feared, hence cannot rule. So will it be Saya who rules? He certainly is level-headed, calculating and Ruthless. what ever the end of the tale, there cannot be chaos.
  3. Poor Tanya... right and wrong, selfishness and righteousness, security and uncertainty, violence and peace, power and helplessness.... all of which have their consequences. she is innately a good person who now feel guilt, to no fault of her own.... (I wish to return to Iark… but is that even possible now that she is the person with some power!). Tagon and Taelha who are innately good but now become monsters who do not hesitate to kill anyone to protect what they thing are theirs. the twin brothers Igutu eunseon/saya who are diametric opposite of each other one good and relatively innocent by his simple environment, the other mean-spirited and worldly beat down by his depressing environment. There is a saying that to be magnanimous, one has to feel strong and secure. None of these people are secured, even if they hold power! Modern human who see this story may be sickened by all the unfairness that happened, but in modern time, we can afford to be magnanimous and judgmental.....thousands of years ago can they afford to be??? this reader is not sure! Tanya always dream about and long for her eunseon…. Will the eunseon she finally see look like the carefree eunseon she remembered or a tyrant like tagon/saya. will she be able to survive in this dangerous world? This is one of the most complicated Korean Drama this reader has ever seen!… where goodness and badness mixed and it becomes hard to know what to think about each person (to empathize or reject them for their deeds)! Great story!
  4. @bebebisous33 @Najoua Soussi This reader thinks that Taegon kills simply to survive. he just did not want to die. So he killed many.... He basically is an Igutu who knows right and wrong.... Killing innocents is not justifiable, so he has to make excuses to his existance…. by staying alive he must build something better than in the past and the present.... a peaceful world. alas he is now forced to do more killings...to survive!!! Arthdal Chronicles is truly a draining tale with so much emotions and blood!
  5. Tanya spoke well... when asked to talk about sky wind moon fire water.... she eloquently enumerated the domain of Wahan/arthdal god ….NATURE ITSELF. this girl is no slouch... she definitely is a politician. Hohoho the major problem is that the White Mountain Tribe hierarchy only reluctantly accept Tanya, and so there is a strong uneasiness as each (white mountain represent the new vs. White Mountain Heart representing the old tradition) side wearily tolerate each other.... there will be major problems for sure. Then Tagon and Taelha are dominant figure in this which is not easy for Tanya. Ayayah… the world of politics does not change whether in the old day or modern time.
  6. after watching 12 episodes and the highlight for season 3, this is my guess as to what will happen: Tanya became leader of the White Mountain Tribe, with the White Peak Mountain Heart society be allowed to function publicly. Asa Ron has to step down but reluctantly and schemes with his people awaiting his chance to get back his power...with his accomplice Hae Mihol. Tagon uses his power to become king with help of Taealha. They tries to control Tanya by forcing her to marry their "SON" Saya but she rebuff them. She asks for the Wahan tribe to be brought back and found out that Eunseon has already escape into the wild along with the slaves from the mine and has vanished. Taealha holds on to Tanya's father to work in the bronze casting, but also as a hostage against Tanya. Eunseon went to other lesser tribes and cultivate their support waiting for a day when he can come back to rescue the Wahan tribe in Arthdal but that is not possible since Arthdal is too powerful...... until a coup d'état occurs.... some one find out that their king Tagon is an IGUTU, and Hae Mihol and White Mountain Tribe supporters of Asa Ron launch an assassination attempt on Tagon. They failed to kill him but the situation became chaotic with different factions fighting each others. The opportunity arrived for Eunseon to come back restore order. Who will become leader of Arthdal? Will the people accept an Igutu to be leader or many of them have to die or the Igutu done miraculous thing to save Arthdal before they accept such leader? What will happen to Saya? He will probably hate Eunseon and want to kill him for Tanya's affection. Who will live who will die, who will be exiled, and who will remains?....not sure! This reader prefers Tagon and Taealha to remain in Arthdal as king and queen, but doubt that will be the ending.
  7. Saya and Eunseon are basically the same person... identical twins with the exactly the same gene. One grew up alone in an ivory tower, reading strategy books, dreaming of being accepted, dreaming of becoming powerful, in a violent filled world where the better does not hesitate to kill, and where lives are cheap (as long as it's someone else's life). Eunseon grew up in a primitive, innocent world.... granted there are some killing, but within the tribe, there is caring, nurturing and unity where his psych can be nurtured, albeit with some discriminations for his differences. He also had the support of Tanya and her parents. Hence this is like an experiment where the same person is placed in different environments and what is end up? An insecure, violent, vengeful, egotistical tyrant....and a sweet innocent boy... who is trying to right the wrongs.. ...all at the same time!!! the same person looking at his mirror (one raises the right hand, the other the left).
  8. You forgot Tagon the most powerful blue blood of all. Guess no one knows about him. After this he won't need to marry an Asa. It seems he will need to survive a coup d'état. Black to how many neanthals exist, we're not sure. We know of three.
  9. So the old religion had Asa Sin and the messenger Aramun who was an Igutu. Then the latter White Mountain tribe killed him and the old line perished, when Asa Sin departed to the south over the Great Black Cliff, bringing the relic with her. since that time, the White Mountain has suppressed the thought that Aramun was an Igutu…. and brand all believers otherwise (the White Peak Mountain Heart society) as heretics. Until Tanya becomes chief of the White Mountain tribe and is accepted by Arthdal people, there is no way Eunseon or Saya can declare themselves Igutu…. so it would be a while until either of them could wrestle power from Tagon. So it's ok for Eunseon to suffer in the mine.... It's fascinating the expression on Tanya's face when she realizes that power will save the Wahan tribe... how is she going to find the relic?
  10. In every civil conflict (the Dongak uprising is not big enough to be called a civil war) there are the idealists who have zeal and willing to offer their lives for their causes, who persuade other to follow them blindly, and their followers who are often ambivalent and would switch side if they sense their side is losing. We see all of that in this tale. The Baek patriarch was right when he told his younger son... this country was lost long ago... when educated people like yourself go to the other side. The reality of the late Joseon period, is severe illiteracy, wrong education (reading Chinese poetry and Confucian teaching does not help run a country), backward economy based entirely on agriculture, poor tax base inadequate to reform the country.... 1/5 of the population being slaves with wasted human resources for the rich and powerful only...… all of these have to go for Joseon to advance... which eventually it did after the Japanese 35 years of occupation and a Korean War. The Japanese themselves had their own blood letting to progress, during the early Meji period, so it's Joseon turn... then China. It is ironic when the older brother exhorted their demoralized followers for the night attack that they are going to fight as free men and that the last few months of being free as dongak members were worth all their suffering.... then after 20 thousands perished and they are all hunted down like rats, while the bystanders yell banzai banzai to the Japanese soldiers.... did most of the survivors truly relish that few months as free men, as they hide, mend their wounds, betray... trying to survive?
  11. @aren_117 said: By the way, I am really confused on why Saya decided to join hands with Tanya after he found out that she has been fooling him. Isn't he supposed to be hurt about it? I thought that there's going to be a rift in their relationship because of that. Saya is a desperately lonely individual with a terrible secret that he cannot reveal (if saram finds out, he will be killed on the spot). He when was young had a confidant who was killed by Hae Tuak at the order of Hae Taealha…. my guess is because the girl found out about Saya's blue blood. All his life he was either hidden away, or furtively walk outside, not talking to anyone less they find out about his being Igutu. In Tanya, he found some one who understands him, understands his needs (to be free) and his frustration (of being imprisoned). She also taught him to use the sling, and open his world some what to the outside. She despite her simplicity is not stupid. She can think and make up her mind and can be quite rebellious (hence the various punching by Hae Tuak). Saya admires people who are strong and intelligent. She also reads his mind, or so he thought. She saw him as a vulnerable boy hating birds for their freedom to fly, yet wanting to be like them so he can escape. So when he found out about the secrets she kept from him, he was hurt, but at the same time he needs her! Without her his oppressive world has no meaning, no joy. In reality he would forgive her for almost any betrayal. Plus, she put a spell on him at the end of episode 8 after she lifted it from Eunseon. Tanya is a good influence on Saya... teaching him right from wrong.
  12. It wouldn't be surprising that the 2 neanthals came there because they are protected by the White Peak Mountain Heart Society. Soompians' theory that the Chaeeun little sister Nunbyeol could be an Igutu is quite plausible. that may explain why Chaeun, without hesitation, help Eunseon when she met him in episode 3. When told by the farmer he accidentally killed, Eunseon was distressed that he is a disgusting Igutu spawn of the even more disgusting Neanthal...Chaeun said : Neanthal are beautiful. That kind of familiarity must come from personal experience, i.e. having family member who are like that or protecting friends who are like that. Plus the White Peak Mountain Heart society worship Aramun as an Igutu (a half saram half neanthal). Well time will tell. Also they are quite well dressed and obviously well fed and obviously comfortable with Arthdal city...so some saram must protect them. the most intriguing question for the ending is if there will be a world full of saram ONLY, or a world full of saram and igutu and maybe even a few neanthals? This reader, being cynical, picks the former! so sorry @lebeaucouple
  13. thank you for the above.... Ultimately the reformation in Germany split it into catholics and noncatholics camps... so I guess the Pope lost too! Hope this arthdal political struggle won't split them into little bickering tribes again or else it's the stone agge again!
  14. thanks bebebisous33 what happened to the cathars of southern france as part of the crusade was truly regrettable. Unfortunately with the religious zeal of the crusade period, nothing short of orthodoxy was tolerated. Every religion went through such period, even peaceful one like buddhism (during Japan's Sengoku warring era of the 15-16th century so many militaristic sects abound). It is unfortunate but when a group feels threaten they often use religion as a pretext for mayhem.
  15. @Gumiho9 said Saya looks like a vampire. Saya is a creature of his environment, seeing how the elders kill without regret (he saw Tagon killed his own soldier when they found out that Saya is an Igutu), as long as it serves their purpose. So killing other doesn't bother him. Note that he always looks so weak, letting Tanya beat him up and not practicing martial art when Hae Tuak was trying to teach him... but he is a sly Igutu (who is not as weak as he pretends). He was able to learn to kill bird with a sling shortly after Tanya taught him. In many way he is an innocent child who doesn't know right from wrong (he is not sure why Tanya was horrified that he kill some one unimportant, because it's not in the strategy book that he has read)...much like a young boy would burn an ant or step on a lizard without 2nd thought. Tanya who came from a simpler and fairer background, and had suffered brutality at the hand of the strongs, is slowly teaching Saya to do the kind thing. Guniho9 is right. Saya does look like a vampire! The 2 neanthals at the end of episode 10 are well dressed in modern Arthdal clothing. One of them may be the child that Asa Rin talked to in the 1st episode after her her neanthal husband was killed. Who fed, clothed and taught them civilized habits all these years? Probably the Society of White Peak Mountain's Hearts who seemed more peaceful (like the Wahan themselves) and probably opposed to the extermination of the neanthals. This sect is probably the original religion which was hijacked by Asa Ron and his group. Tanya would fit in well with these folks. Kind of remind this reader of early Christianity during 1st century Roman time where it's teaching of love thy neighbors was suppressed. The irony is that what they practice was probably the original religious teachings!... but how can you expand an empire and enslave others with that kind of religion?
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