[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

11 hours ago, redfoxprincess said:

First things first, i did NOT use the word ‘tranny’ to describe ‘ugly cross dresser’. How did you jump to this and how/why are cross-dressers ugly? I used the word ‘tranny’ (in the ‘drag queen’ sense) to describe Ye Hua’s wig. I said I laughed at his hair. 

 

I hate getting overly politically correct though, for the very reason that this has already highlighted: terms are used differently in different countries and cultures. The term ‘tranny’ originated here in Sydney, Australia, and you can read more about it here and here, but i was using it in the more recent ‘drag queen’/‘Tranny Bingo’ sense. So while ‘tranny’ is offensive in your mind because of its usage and connotations in the US, all i thought was ‘he looks like a drag queen’. Yes, i thought Ye Hua’s hair down was ugly. But i also think men in drag are downright ugly. I don’t consider ‘drag queens’ to be a ‘group of people’ but rather a ‘style’ - a style/look/fashion expression for entertainment purposes that i happen to think is ugly (entertaining, but ugly). Since you work in fashion, surely, you must find some fashion ugly and some not, right? It’s got absolutely NOTHING to do with LGBTQIA. In fact, transgender persons would be the first to want to distinguish themselves from drag queen entertainers.

 

I also want to speak up for those who are not on the same page with LGBT+ issues - it’s absolutely okay to have a different opinion, and it’s absolutely okay to laugh at the fact that Ye Hua looked like a drag queen.

 

Hypothetically speaking, I don’t think it even makes any sense to call trans persons (transgender, transexual, transvestite) - as a supposed group of people - ‘ugly’, when their looks are as diverse as their gender identities, and I’m not sure there’s any aesthetic commonality that distinguishes them or can be used to generalise their appearances. I have a transgender cousin. Born female, he now looks just like any other balding, overweight middle-aged blokey bloke. So what?

 

I don’t know anything about Australian terms, but the word tranny is considered a slur in the US and it is used to describe “transsexuals” which is an outdated term. It was used as a slur because it was typically to make fun of “ugly” MTF trans people. Drag queens are absolutely different from transgender people, but the term in the US typically refers to transgender people and not drag queens which is why I said that a more appropriate word could be used because you’re referring to drag. However, you’re welcomed to use any word as it does mean something different in your culture, but for a global audience, I wanted to point out how this word may be offensive to those in the US. 

 

I will agree to disagree about whether or not drag queens are a group or a style though. I know many drag queens who would argue both sides so neither of us are right or wrong here. Just a matter of opinion, some see it as an identity and others as a style. I personally love drag culture and drag queen styles so also agree to disagree on it being ugly. 

 

You’re right that it doesn’t make sense to associate an entire group of people with “ugly,” and that’s not what I am implying, but below are some background links for why I am bringing it up as a point. There are trans people who don’t find the word offensive (as mentioned in the blog below), but just like the n-word, I would personally avoid using because it’s not my place as a outsider of the marginalized group to say that a slur isn’t a slur. I originally brought up the point just in case you were not familiar with LGBT+ issues and didn’t realize it could be offensive, but seeing as you are familiar with the word and LGBT+ issues, it is absolutely your personal decision to use the word or not. Again, I know nothing about Australian LGBT+ communities so I am not trying to police you on the word. I would like this conversation to end here, I think we have both respectfully provided sufficient links and thoughts for people to make their own choices. 

 

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2014/04/a-personal-history-of-t-word-and-some.html?m=1

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranny

 

 

On a lighter, on-topic note, I found Donghua’s wig to be really plastic-y looking and not at all like his beautiful silver locks. It’s almost yellow-tinted in certain lighting. 

 

I will also give the movie another watch now that I’m more familiar with the books to see if I also find it more in line. The drama does add a lot of side plot, but I didn’t think the main plot was too different. Granted, I had a hard time visualizing the book differently from the drama when I read it, maybe some of the nuances were lost in translation or just lost on me. I tend to overlay drama and books when I have both forms. 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

On 1/8/2019 at 10:48 PM, redfoxprincess said:

Oh i LOVED SEXY shifu Mo Yuan!!!  Sigh... but Ye Hua... no thanks.  I know i know... i’m nuts... how can the same person give me such different feeeeeels?!?!

 

YES YES, that’s exactly my thoughts! Xiao Nai from Love O2O is modern-day Dong Hua! That’s why i couldn’t help but imagine him as Dong Hua. His game character outfit just needed white hair and voila! I’m all for my pretty boy Yang Yang, he’s my eye candy...  So i’m very ok with him maintaining his prettiness! 

 

Mark’s acting felt overblown for me, especially considering how reserved the book described Ye Hua to be. But i know many appreciated his acting and portrayal of emotions. I felt he was a bit too theatrical for my liking, and maybe that’s why i liked Mo Yuan - oh, and his topknot!

 

Thanks for the kind reminder about my choice of term. I’m sorry if i offended or hurt anyone here. I meant no malice. I merely meant that Mark Chao’s long wig, when let down, made him look like a drag queen. Here in Australia, the term ‘tranny’ is mostly used interchangeably by the drag queen community and probably isn’t as sensitive as it is in other parts of the world - we love our drag queens. ‘Trans’ is more commonly used by the LGBTQIA community in general. I guess it’s all just part of life here, and i’m from Sydney - the home of Mardi Gras - and we are proud. 

 

I see your point about Mark’s Ye Hua, but it’s endearing to me. Granted, I watched half the drama first, and then read the books to know the ending before finishing the drama so I already had Mark in my mind as Ye Hua. He is dramatic, but he didn’t feel cheesy to me. The scenes felt really raw and powerful due to his pivotal emotional scenes. I think he still showed that he was reserved in scenes outside of Bai Qian. 

 

Also loved Mo Yuan! I fall in love with him every time. I do like Mo Yuan’s stoicness more, but with how much censorship drama Bai Qian got with her casual sexual advances, if Ye Hua wasn’t portrayed as more forward, it would’ve taken them 200 episodes to be together. 

 

As far as the word “tranny,” my reason for pointing it out is because it’s different from the word “trans,” at least in the US. Tranny is a derogatory version of trans and is only used as a slur in the US. Also, using the word trans / tranny as an adjective to describe “ugly cross dresser” was more what I wanted to highlight as problematic. Thank you so much for respectfully responding to my concerns though. I was really worried about offending people, but I’m a huge advocate for LGBT+ issues so I just wanted to bring attention to word usage. 

 

On 1/9/2019 at 1:53 AM, chubby^green^ said:

yes, i actually find myself in tune with ye hua and responded with his display of emotion as ye hua, cant say much about mo yuan since he is quite stoic hahaha

that's why i think i adore mark chao's portray of ye hua, he nails the emotion part quite well

and aso i dont think his crying ugly, i find it very heartbreaking

 

i like his attire as well

suited his somber mood in the drama

still think it looks like swamp monster since it sorta engulfed ye hua whole most of the time, and that guy is quite big himself hahaha

 

and i'm also sorry about the word 'tranny'

i dont think much about it before and was focused so much on his hair that i may overlooked how bad that word is

 

and i still find him and that gorgeous hair of his is sexy especially when he is bed

lor hahaha

 

i have faith in both of them too

they look great together and their chemistry together is amazing

even before they were dongfeng, they already felt perfect together

 

I like an actor that can ugly cry genuinely. It resonated with me as well! His costuming is a bit swamp monster, but I like that LOL. Still want that crow cape. But also, I work in fashion so I like that kind of wild, avant garde design. I will also admit that his hair down was U G L Y, but I just wanted to point out that we shouldn’t make terms referring to groups of people be synonymous with “ugly.” Though, I can get over my aversion to his hair when he’s in bed. HAHA. I much prefer my drama men in top knots though so Mo Yuan is dreamyyyyyy. 

 

3 hours ago, redfoxprincess said:

Hmm, I think they did a pretty good job, considering it’s an artistic film adaption with its own interpretation of the story, which means it wouldn’t have been reasonable anyway to expect that they flesh out the whole story like a drama, albeit in 1 hour & 40 minutes. In many ways, I thought the film was better than the drama - it felt a lot less soapy, its cinematography, CGI & SFX was amazing, the entire cast was truer to the book’s descriptions, Ah Li was super cute & chubby, and the simplified storyline made a lot of people’s wishes come true by:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Removing Li Jing so that Ye Hua is Bai Qian’s first love

2. Making Mo Yuan & Ye Hua the same person (not twins)

While it’s perfectly fine to have preferences, I think many of the ways people compare the drama & the film, then bash the film because they expect it to be like the drama rather than appreciating it for what it is, is not really fair. I hope you get to watch the film some time and enjoy it for what it is, because it’s really beautiful. Its storytelling wasn’t great because it left many people confused, but I also think that people didn’t really try to understand how it wanted to differentiate itself. The interesting consensus is that people who didn’t know the story before watching the film actually had no problem understanding it. It’s the people who expect it to be just like the drama who couldn’t interpret and appreciate it with a fresh and unbiased mind.

 

I don’t like it when a film is based off a source media and then change everything about it. It didn’t have to be like the drama, but I felt that too many main things were changed from the books. 

 

Spoiler

I did like the plot point of Moyuan and YeHua being the same person because I love both. It’s a total win-win situation and an original twist to the “three lives” aspect of the story. 

 

I think the CGI and costuming is superb, though it was almost too fantasy-like for my personal tastes. Movies typically have better CGI because they’re so short so they can afford more intensive CGI work so I won’t hold the CGI against the drama. I think I will go rewatch the movie sometime this week to see if my opinions have changed. Maybe I’ll like it more now! My one critique is how short it is. Even 20 minutes would’ve made it better with just a bit more depth. Most movies in the US are longer than 2 hours with way less world building required. 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

I agree with @chubby^green^! Mark Chao is the better Ye Hua, only because he’s a much better actor though. Yang Yang makes me love him anyway though just because he’s so darn pretty. I think he could’ve played an awesome Donghua because it’s sinilar to Xiao Nai from Love O2O, but the chemistry between Weiguang and Dilreba is too good!! As a fellow wearer of only black and sometimes looking like a swamp monster, I loved Mark’s costuming, crow outfit included. I want that coat LOL. What I didn’t like was his final episode outfit with the flowers. WTF man. Anyway, I love Yang Yang as much as the next person and he was perfect in Love O2O, but I felt that when he acts, he tries to maintain his prettiness so sometimes he doesn’t emote as much as I would like. He’s very good at the playful, flirty, cooler than everyone character, but I didn’t like his portrayal of an angsty Ye Hua. Also the movie was just all over the place in terms of plot so there’s also that. I like Mark’s ugly crying a lot, but didn’t love the hair down scenes. I think he actually looked better as Mo Yuan, but he portrayed such raw emotions as Ye Hua so I loved him anyway. 

 

Also not to be a downer, but the word “tranny” is very derogatory and hurtful to marginalized groups of people. I think we should avoid using it if possible as there are other words we can use that aren’t slurs. 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

2 hours ago, redfoxprincess said:

Pillow Book has a very complicated and convoluted plotline, its timeline is all over the place - this is Tang Qi’s style and i actually love it because it works like a thriller. I love beginning in the middle of the story, figuring out things in the past while things are still developing in the present, then everything comes together and reaches a climax.

 

I agree! I liked Ten Miles for that same reason, I like the disjointed timeline. I found The Pillow Books to be much harder to read so it took a couple of rereads for me to understand it fully, and now I really appreciate the intricacies and details. I wish she would finish the other stories. Part of me is conflicted about the plagiarism allegations though because it taints my favorite series a bit. 

 

By the way, I believe I PM’d you my email for YeHua’s epilogue. Did you happen to send it yet? It’s my subscription email so it’s a bit of a mess. I don’t want to have missed it. 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

5 minutes ago, chubby^green^ said:

my slow brain has only understand now that fengjiu and donghua fate has already changed when they met again during the bai qian's bride escort in the beginning of pillow book since that would be aligned with the time stamp of their history together

i only understand now that the story should be like 

• fengjiu met donghua at mount something, he saves her, she felt indebted to him
• fengjiu went to taichen to become maid to pay for him, fate didn't allow her to meet him though
• fengjiu changed to fox to help donghua, again fate intervene, they are together but fengjiu was seen as only  baby fox
• back to qingqiu, isolation
• donghua shadow was sent to fanyin valley
• fengjiu's shadow follow suit (tragic story of aranya and chen ye)
• fengjiu's shadow come back (after the death of aranya, donghua's shadow didn't return as chen ye is not dead)
• fengjiu went to mortal world once again with the idea of paying debts
• donghua remain sleeping/recuperating i dunno...
• fengjiu come back and continue her isolation in qingqiu
• then we come to first chapter of pillow book where fengjiu rise from the water because of siming's story (during this time stone of destiny has rewritten their fate) hence they keep on meeting one another, and donghua keep getting attracted to her even though she did her best to avoid donghua 

correct me if i'm wrong

 

if that is the case i would say that the fate between donghua and fengjiu is quite strong already

they kept being pulled to one another without even realising it

even when they are torn apart and misunderstanding arises, there were always something that brings them back together again

that would be siming, lian song and su moye

hahaha

 

at first i thought their fate changes after they come back from aranya's dream then i got confused because even they come back the ball was already close to the bottom of the hill, no longer started rolling as it should be

 

now i finally understand that it has been rolling for quite a while already

lor

 

 

Yup! The two met again because of Chen Ye and Aranya’s unfinished fate. Had that fate not been unfinished, then they would’ve continued on with their lives never having their lives be tangled. It’s why the immortal that guards fate tells Dong Hua that’s he’s able to truly see Fengjiu finally after thousands of years. 

 

6 hours ago, redfoxprincess said:

Yes, this was in the drama. Everything implied in the book about their homosexual relationship was included in the drama, as subtly as it was in the book. 

 

Yeah I like that scene in the drama though so I think of it as canon. Though the drama wasn’t THAT subtle since ZheYan calls him ZhenZhen which is a couple-y pet name same as QianQian and it also used language one would use to describe a married couple. But I think The Pillow Books were less subtle than the Ten Miles book. 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

12 hours ago, chubby^green^ said:

that would be so nice 

i am seriously curious how these two started since in eternal love zhe yan was saying that he was actually in love with bai zhen's mom akak grandma fumi? first

i dunno if this was the same in the book

but if that is the case then how did that love transferred to bai zhen?

why?

not that i mind

hahaha

and seeing how they adore one another (at least in the drama that is) makes me even more curious 

 

I was so confused in the books for a bit, but Grandma Fumi isn’t Bai Zhi’s wife, it’s Fengjiu’s maternal grandmother. Zhe Yan fought with Bai Zhi for the Fox Queen’s love, and realized that they were compatible as friends so they became friends. I think Fox Queen choose Bai Zhi anyway. Bai Zhen supposedly took a liking to Zhe Yan from childhood (can’t remember if this is in the book or just the drama) and tried to kiss him at 1 years old! It seems that it’s common to pawn your children off in QingQiu so the Fox clan just gave Bai Zhen to Zhe Yan to look after and now they’re inseparable. Plus I’m sure it helps that Bai Zhen is so pretty 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

22 hours ago, redfoxprincess said:

Interesting!!!  But even if they reuse the crown prince affair, are you suggesting they might do away with Yuan Zhen (or Dong Hua might replace Yuan Zhen like he replaced Xize?). And do you think they’ll literally have an affair or just pretend? Leaked pics appear to show Feng Jiu kissing the Crown Prince... maybe it’s pretend? But i also feel like they need to have some sort of passionate romantic connection (but something also tears them apart) in order to make Dong Hua’s role as Crown Prince worth the addition to this drama.

 

Hmm, I forgot about Yuan Zhen being the actual crown prince in the mortal life. Maybe Dong Hua plays not the crown prince, but just a regular prince? I think it’ll mirror Fengjiu’s feelings about “Xize,” she’ll be attracted to him but not know why. Because she thinks the emperor is DongHua, she probably will resist her feelings meanwhile DongHua as the mortal prince will probably chase her. I worry about this mortal arc messing up the delicate continuity of this world. 

 

@chubby^green^

thanks! I was already obsessed even before this was announced, but I finally found people to share my excitement with!! 

[[Mainland Chinese Web Drama 2020] Three Lives Three Worlds The Pillow Book 三生三世枕上书]

Hey guys! 

 

Newbie here! Wow, I just spent a good couple of hours reading through all the pages, and I made a soompi account just so I can comment some of my thoughts. 

 

1. Someone mentioned YeHua’s epilogue, does anyone have a translated copy of this? I’d love to read it. 

 

2. The mortal realm arc and the role that Vengo will play is definitely an interesting concept. I actually didn’t realize that DongHua didn’t actually go to the mortal realm until my third time reading the pillow books.  It just didn’t sink in. But I have a theory about what the crown prince role might be, in the pillow books, FengJiu says that she has no sexual experience because both times that she had been married, both the Song Emperor and Ye Qingti treated her like precious, pure being and never touched her. She broke the Song Emperor’s heart by writing a love letter to his Noble Consort which then compelled him to marry her to Qingti. In the drama, she breaks his heart by feigning an affair with the Crown Prince, YuanZhen. I think that they’re probably going to reuse the crown prince “affair” for how she breaks the Emperor’s heart since writing a love letter to another woman might have too many homosexual subtexts for a mainland drama. Anyway, that’s just my two theory. 

 

3. I read some discussion about dubbing, originally, I wasn’t a fan either, but for “ancient” dramas, I think dubbing really helps standardize accents and ensure proper pronunciation. If you listen to YangMi’s voice, it’s so jarring after watching her as Bai Qian, especially for those that understand Chinese. Also, voice acting is really difficult and full of complexities; I think that the voice actors really convey deep emotion that a lot of actors wouldn’t be able to do otherwise. Think about all the breathy, emotional YeHua lines. Not a lot of people possess the ability to emote that much just through their voice. My only hope for FengJiu and DongHua is that they keep the same voice actors. It’d be awful to have to associate another voice with recurring characters. I think that their voice actors suited them really well too.