[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

7 hours ago, meechuttso said:

I am afraid you @USAFarmgirl and @Ahpheng especially with the captions have captured the essence of what worries and saddens me the most.

 

Ae-Sin is definitely very immature in ways that shows her idealism and lack of experience in the world. I am afraid she's making Dong-Mae into an even more tragic character, and her last remark to him probably emasculated him in a way that will make the situation even more bloody.

 

As many of you know from K-dramas, there are 2 key ideas at play here: 남자의 첫사랑 (a man's first crush) and 남자의 마지막 자존심 (a man's last vestiges of self-respect, dignity).

 

There's a cliche saying around here, 'a man will take his first crush to his grave' (that no matter who he marries or ends up with in the end, he won't ever forget his first love). For DM, there is none other than Ae-Sin - those few moments in her carriage when she helped him escape, that moment defines his life - even more than the killing of the guy who raped his mother, even while he was returning her kindness (in the name of what is right by Confucius and her faith in that teaching) with an insult and cursing then, that brief and powerful moment of grace shown in his life by this most holy of creatures, Ae-Sin, this is what keeps Dong-Mae going, how he can still have his sense of honor as a knight may have for a lady he courts in his heart with no expectations of her favor. No doubt, in his eyes, she is all that is left of what is good in this world. He is no doubt willing to give his life for her already, as he was certainly willing to kill and justify the killing of anyone who even harbors malicious or wrong thoughts towards her.

 

But what Dong-Mae wants most from Ae-Sin is not so much her love requited - this is far too high above and out of reach for him, the butcher's son who had killed and clawed his way to his status working only for money knowing no country or allegiance except to the ones who will respect the power of his sword, and are willing to pay him accordingly. Like Aretha Franklin, he desperately just wants his R-E-S-P-E-C-T, and he wants it most of all from, Ae-Sin.

 

But she would not give it.

She called him a traitor upon their first meeting after his return, and this time, she literally emasculated him with her cutting words. I felt that that was a tragic mistake on her part - perhaps in order to get past the crisis and somehow walk without limping to the shelter of her cabin on the train she overdid it playing it tough feeling like she was cornered and had no other choice. But in doing so, Ae-Sin left no shelter for Dong-Mae and his self-respect. She stripped him of his last bit of it, the man's dignity, not knowing how much he had prayed sitting there on the train track all night for her not to be there.

 

Now the question remains, just how much does Dong-Mae actually love Ae-Sin?

 

Does he love her enough, completely unconditionally, to the extent that he is willing to love her to the death even without her acknowledgment of his affection for her? If so, he might actually spare Eugene Choi to go and live so that someone can love Ae-Sin, for that is what she needs, Lo-Bu, even if Dong-Mae himself can't supply what she needs (because she emasculated him already).

 

Or will he employ a scorched earth policy of killing everyone whom Ae-Sin loves, for above even Ae-Sin, he puts his self-respect and his need for acknowledgment, R-E-S-P-E-C-T foremost ?

 

That is what I think I will be watching for. And I think I have already begun to mourn for this Dong-Mae, truly a tragic character. If only he could have been shipped to 아메리카 (America) with or without Eugene, his fate could have been so different....

I think many have pointed out the differences between DM and EC. Their differences don’t lie on the matter of living in America or not but in the way they perceive life and more precisely, their nature. If EC hadn’t been so determined to become a good guy, he would still be some random gangster or spend his days making ends meet by doing lowly jobs while being tortured by racism. Besides, I feel the need to protect AS :D. I don’t think AS is immature because of what she did to DM. Frankly, she doesn’t like him and he shot her. What’s the point in being nice to a person who shot you? What do you expect her to do? When you get shot by a person you helped, you at that time will get mad as the first natural reaction no matter what reason it is; not to mention, AS doesn’t like DM at all and she doesn’t like HS, either. AS is very directive, just like EC. When she dislikes someone, she shows it all over her face and her words. Remember her first encounter with HS? This is her personality which I really love, not her immaturity. AS is already 29. You think she hasn’t seen any underprivileged person like DM? I bet she did meet a lot indeed (she is famous for her charity work) and for she’s working in the Righteous Army from which members surely are not classified as the advantaged at all. Calling her immature just basing on how she treats DM is unfair for her because she has her causes for all her doings. If DM hadn’t insulted her, hadn’t shot her, would she have  had that kind of reaction? If you’re a girl, put yourself in her shoes and you will know how it feels to be disrespected and shot by the same man you once rescued in real life. You can’t expect a girl to show friendliness towards you while all you do is make her dislike you more (DM is fully aware of his actions). I love how the writer-nim can keep her characters’ consistency up to now, both AS and DM. Every character has their own ego which is shining brightly in the story.

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

2 hours ago, Wotad said:

Its a disgrace in AS eyes yet shes killing people her self? This is why i find her views so contracting. 

 

I agree that in terms of love DM will never get that but i still believe she will feel something for him. If he dies for her i want her to be upset and feel something and i think that will happen.

 

 

This gaze.. i love DM so much this character is the most comp

 

I disagree totally about who had it worse , EC parents were slaves but DM's parents couldn't even get paid and got disrespected by the slaves.. His mother got raped and then she killed him and then sent DM away and he thought that his parents were abandoning  him etc.  Rarely were slaves separated or sold apart which is why alot of slaves had families etc.. so those children would be born into slavery and people get more slaves. 

 

 

I love this part and never thought about why he loves money but you explain DM perfectly. 

 

 

Totally how i feel about DM he is a really complex character that you dont really know what hes thinking. I dont think he knew 100% that it was her which is why he shot. 

 

 

 

 AS is in the Righteous Army and she considers herself as a soldier. What she’s doing right now is her duty. I don’t think we can compare her killing bad people for Joseon’s sake (the US ambassador, DM’s underlings) with DM’s killing random people (for money and revenge). The two kinds of killings have nothing in common and neither do AS and DM. I don’t think AS looks at DM with a disgusted face. If that’s the case, what about the face she showed to HS? With both HS and DM, she showed an expression of non-interest, non-admiration, non-relation. All of her positive expressions are for EC already. With me, AS is not a noblewoman who gives much thought about class. Maybe she was when she first started learning shooting with the gunner Jang. But time flew and she spent 10 years in the Righteous Army; I bet she’s met all kinds of people and class doesn’t weigh much from her point of view. So the look she gave DM is not for a lowly butcher’s son but for a guy who made a wrong choice and did nothing to reverse it. Besides that, have you guys ever felt that her look ar DM before the shooting also contained her fear? Tears even lingered in her eyes when DM grabbed her skirt even when they’re adults. How would you feel if when you’re just a kid, some older guy grabbed your skirt and wiped blood on his mouth while looking at you so intensely and angrily? That also explained why DM could never be with AS because he reminded her of “not safe” feeling. 

[[Drama 2018] Mr. Sunshine, 미스터 션샤인 - Winner of Critics’ Choice Award for Drama category]

Hi everyone, I’ve been following this thread and just need to spare some thoughts about episode 8. This episode is the greatest so far. I now want to analyze why HS and DM are already out in the race to Aeshin’s heart. 

 

First, the conversation between EC and HS is like a slap in HS’s face. Up to now, I don’t know if he’s a Joseon undercover spy or not but I still see him as a brat who thinks he at least has a heart for poor slaves for trying to get rid of the watch his grandfather gave him using the money he got from exploiting his slaves. In his mind, he is better than his grandfather and is a pathetic nobleman who has to suffer from his ancestors’ sin. This and also the way he approaches Aeshin forms an image of a selfish brat. Remember he already has a girlfriend in Japan? He even didn’t want to go back for his marriage with Aeshin. But he had a change of heart! Why? Because Aeshin is beautiful? When Hina told him to be sincere to get Aeshin, he said he didn’t know how to be sincere with such short time, which means he hasn’t been in love with Aeshin and he still takes their marriage very lightly.

 

Second, Dong-mae and Eugene. Dong-mae had a hard life, but again he doesn’t try to make a better life for himself. This is the difference between DM and EC. Both came from lowly class and held hatred towards Joseon. However, EC grew up to become a decent man while DM took a darker path. This is not because EC was in America and DM was not. From the very young age, EC appeared to be a brilliant child who had strange thoughts (Aeshin’s grandpa was the scholar who asked little EC’s whereabouts when he’s in the woods) and always yearned for leading a good life (his mom said in her next life, EC would live in a big house). If it hadn’t been for his will, he would have ended up being a up-to-no-good gangster in the U.S. He tried to save his mom, he tried all ways to get to the US: begging and initiatively asking for help. Although he always thinks about revenge, his doings all speak out  “BE BETTER”. On the other hand, DM is full of hatred and sins. He got help from Aeshin but wasted her help. There’s a very interresting contradiction here. Eugene who doesn’t know a single Korean character grows to be a gentleman while DM who EC got envious for knowing Korean got his hands blood-colored.  I know that deep down, he sees Aeshin as a goddess and will do anything for her but in love, you love someone for who he is, not what he has done for you. DM’s wrongdoings are too many for Aeshin to accept. The first thing he did when coming back to Joseon was get revenge on the women who despised his family. Since then, what he has done is kill and kill while he’s living in Joseon, which is a disgrace in Aeshin’s eyes. This is what draws Aeshin to Eugene more. He’s a man who has just come back to Joseon after a long time but he helps many Joseon people. His attentions are unknown to her but at least, to her, this man does not harm her beloved Josean people. Let’s take the latest case of helping the Joseon spy to flee. I think Aeshin now hated DM not only for shooting her leg but also shooting a Joseon soldier who’s trying to help another Joseon girl. DM can’t get near to Aeshin because she does not feel safe when staying with him, that’s for sure, from their first encounter as kids till now. When EC knew AS got shot, he’s worried and came to the pharmacy right then. And what about DM? He just wanted to confirm the shooter was AS and didn’t seem to care about her health condition. From this aspect, he’s just selfish like HS. One more thing that helps EC wins AS’s heart over HS and DM is that EC showed respect for AS, what she always treasures, unlike DM and HS.