[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

5 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

 

 

Im curious, where can we read the english version of the history of Deok Im as you have written above? Can you show me the reference, would love to read more on her... thanks 

There's just Lady Hyegyeong Memoirs in english version, all other records included Jeongjo writings and records of his reign years I only founded and read in korean

 

Lady Hyegyeong Memoirs English version 

 

And then I found this interesting post too with lot of good information about their love story story https://thetalkingcupboard.com/2021/12/31/the-red-sleeve-history-her-story-and-their-love-story/

 

Hope works and you can find some answers to your questions 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

29 minutes ago, baconham said:

Just finished ep 17 but I don't quite get the ending - Would anybody be able to explain? Deok Im's death and the Prince's death was all a dream when he took a nap on Deok Im's lap??? So those scenes of the future king with his beard and all was also part of the dream??

Also I still can't believe the writers didn't make it a point for Deok Im to tell the King she does love him. The poor boy has said it to her many times throughout the entire drama and Deok Im did not even say it back to him once even after choosing to stay with him and having his child? It's not like the King forced her to stay either cause he gave her a choice to leave or stay. Gahhh

I think they made it to the viewer consideration, you can take it as 1) was just a dream and as he knows the "future" choose to change(?)that.

2) was in the afterlife (I believe this version) and he's happily living with his one and truly love. 

As I say before Deok Im was more an action person and I think all her actions and her attitude screams truly love for him. Even in the novel she never told him she loved him 

 

 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

2 hours ago, minglanfan2 said:

Your post made me wonder about DoekIm's real reason for  rejecting San.In the modern era freedom/independence makes a lot of sense to me.Was it really valuable for Doek Im like it is to me in the present?She belonged to the family of a traitor.Was adopted by the servant of San's mom.If she were to marry a commoner life wouldn't be easy.Her husband might have married another.Making ends meet may have been difficult.A woman either a cocubine or a commoner's wife was a second class citizen in that era.Her degree of freedom would be dependent on her husband just as it was for a concubine.

I increasingly feel her rejections were the only ace up her sleeve.The most powerful and sought after man in the kingdom couldn't win the heart of a court lady who neither had power,wealth,accomplishments or extraordinary beauty. The challenge to be her 1st priority would always keep San's interest in her amidst his queen,concubines and other women. That understanding makes her an extremely astute lady. She should have caught on the fact that others were ready to exploit this weakness of the king..Maybe she was confident of evading being a pawn hence the earlier rejections. This is what I could gather from the drama having not read the novel.

 

 

I really liked how you pointed out some interesting things, actually in real history almost all her older sisters became concubines, there's a record of one sister that was made concubine of one of Lady Hyegyeong (San's Mom) brother so maybe that experience made her think well about the life of a concubine. In the drama she actually wanted to become one when she was little, after she saw the funeral of Lady Yi Yeongbin (San's Biological Grandma) and the history Head Court Lady Jo told her about dying inside the palace, that make her think that if she become a concubine or a high rank court lady she'll have the money and power to help her brother. Little she know the hardships that being a concubine means. She started to change after all the things Lady Jo do and she experienced, she knew then the danger and the manipulation that was involved on the court. Plus to that the conversation that San had with his mom too make her change automatically her thinking about concubines and their life inside the palace

About she being trapped inside and not able to go out, that was the rule for all royal family ladies, after she received the King's favor she automatically become part of the royal family, that means she is not longer part of her family as she's the King's family now, example for that is when the Dowager Queen couldn't go to her own brother funeral. Being a royal lady was difficult and had lot of rules to follow, even if San allowed Deok Im for going out she had yet to pass the Queen filter as the Queen is the head of all ladies in the court.

In real history too Uibin was known for not accept any of the benefits and power that means being King's concubine, she lived a very frugal life she didn't allow her chambers to be luxurious or being built from zero, she just stay in a normal building and is believed that she do some remodeling by her own, in the drama we saw that her home was outside the palace main complex and was very simple yet cozy.

Even Jeongjo take her as  example and start living simple. A thing I liked too and the drama take it in consideration was that her nephew was made royal guard as his father, because this happen in real history.

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

And it's finish wow I'm still in a limbo kind of state, as the previous week I think I'll need proper rest after this, what a rollercoaster ride if emotions I had really... Even worse as I'm a baby mom, that escene break my heart in million pieces and had to pause the video and go to hug my baby tight to regain again my energy. Their pain but mostly her pain, not be able to see our touch your son in his last breath... that really really break me..

For the final I think it was their afterlife, where they can live together and happy as a family and he be only hers, without worrying about other people or nation problems, status or palace intrigues. I liked I could see again their eyes sparking as the begining of their love story.

Actually that plum flowers did exist in real history and bloomed every time a good thing happen between them (there's records written by Jeongjo about that). On the year both Prince Munhyo and Deok Im died didn't bloomed and Jeongjo believed that it was a signal of his late father, because he was about to change the place of his grave but couldn't and after the death of his loved ones he decided to built the Hwaseong Fortress and put Prince Sado grave there too. 

Regarding about the questions of if she truly loved him I think that she very much. But Deok Im was always a action type of person more that a words person. She always choosed action when related to San, her friends, or her life; it would be more easy if she just talked and then see what to do when she had a problem but she always choosed acting and then see the consequences, so for this I think she truly and very much loved him, all her actions screaming her love for San. About her don't explicit say she loved him, as @happiness says she had to put that wall between them to protect herself too, she always talked about how she cherished herself so I think it was the only way and power she wanted to keep to herself, her love to him; if she give it to him that, she will just remain as a useless woman so she decided to stay with the only power she had, her heart. That can be a way to loving someone too, as a married woman I can say that marriage is not about just one person or sharing thing, is about renouncing too because when you married instead of one you're a team and for the sake of that team you must leave behind some things and gain anothers too, I think she understood that perfectly and whats why she choosed to stay by his side regardless what she finish loosing.

 

I will be back again later to add more things or make another post I think I didn't say everything yet hahaha but I can't think properly at the moment haha 

But I want to thanks everyone here for this ride we took together and for sharing interesting things was a pleasure to read and discover new things all the time I enter here, Thanks so much!!

Hopefully they'll meet again in a new project and in a modern and more pleasant story, already happen to lot of couples (Goblin Lee Dong Wook and Yoo Inna for example they had they're own drama and story after) so I'm hopping they soon receive a good story and have time to do that project (hoping for a tv cable project better as they have more freedom for some escenes ) 

 

 

 

 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

44 minutes ago, Tina123 said:

Hi! I thought the woman he ever loved was Deok Im? Is Uibin his concubine after DI died and he had a change of heart? I’m confused and hoping DI is his one true love. Thank you!

Uibin is the title of Deok Im as a concubine, Uibin is Deok Im 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

56 minutes ago, simplesim said:

Oh noes...are we going to see San been forced to do his duty to spend the night with Hwabin!

Jebal jebal... no no no...

Think of the agony of DI (and more so all of us)... 

I don't think it will be the case as the time is limited on the drama, and I'm kind of sure he already do his duty on last episode  but I think they'll mostly focus on their relationship and life together and little on the rest from now on 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

Reading the episode 16 text preview I think they'll portray what happen in real history between Hwabin and Deok Im. It was public knowledge at that time that they both didn't had the best relationship, more on Hwabin side, because she thought she was superior than Deok Im and personally opposed to her ascended on the concubine position (I read korean history books, Lady Hyegyeong diary, and records of King Jeongjo reign days) 

It was stated too that she (Hwabin) fake a pregnancy, because her pregnancy was announced the same time as Uibin first pregnancy but never was mentioned again in the records, so korean historians believe she faked or had a imaginary pregnancy. 

When Uibin died it was a rumour inside the palace that Hwabin poisoned her to gain the King attention again, and Jeongjo was in a full rage state, but then this it was denied as Jeongjo was with Uibin most of the time and all the time when she fall sick in bed till the end of her days, and check personally the preparation and administration of her medicines, so this just remains as a rumour but many believe Hwabin was a not a good person and plotted lot of times against Uibin and even against Queen Hyoui.

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

13 hours ago, baconham said:

Was it only in the recent episodes that San's mum encouraged San to go after his own happiness? Does anybody know roughly in which episode San's mum had a change of heart?

 

Because I remember in the earlier episodes the mum was quite adamant about San only marrying someone from a noble family. And I remember she was quite mean to Deok Im as well telling her to know her place and that she would be dead if not for her adopting Deok Im (she said something along this line). There was also that scene during Deok Im's coming of age ceremony when she intentionally called for Deok Im into the same room as San only for Deok Im to hear from San's mouth that he would not disappoint the mum by being with a "lowly" court maid.......

 I think it was because at that time his crown prince position was on constant danger and maybe if he choose to make Deok Im his concubine and she being from a lower position put him in even more disadvantage place to reach the throne.

And then she demonstrating that will even risk her life for him can change all mom's hearth I guess hahaha 

In real history Lady Hyegyeong was more close to the queen actually and Won Bin because it was from the same clan, I didn't read about the personal relationship with Deok Im but seems it was good too because she take care of her and send nannies for baby Munhyo after he was born

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

Just finish both episodes and wow what a rollercoaster of emotions, I don't how to feel right now, I think I need a lot of rest to assimilate this and be prepare for next ones because I know next week will kill us even more than this weekend. 

 

Put my opinions like this to protect anyone who didn't watch this weekend episode yet 

 

Spoiler

I just want to give a stand ovation to Lady Hyegyeong, such a mother! I'm in love with that character, and that conversation she had with her son in episode 15, break and mend again my heart at the same time. I didn't read yet someone talking about that conversation but I surely loved because that was the turning point for San, I now can of understand Deok Im and her rejections, San was always on his POV, always was he that was hurt, he that became heartbroken, he that was in pain, I think he never put himself on her shoes and how difficult was for her think on leave everything behind and even how difficult was for her reject him even if she truly loved him, after that heart to heart conversation with his mom is when he understood her position and her heart too and voila pouring his everything to her and stop putting pressure give him what he always wished, her heart, finally. I was so happy they portrayed him finally winning her like this than kind of she becoming her concubine because she didn't have other option, seems more real and of course romantic for our aching hearts.

 

Oh sweet jesus take the weel next weekend because will experience everything again in just 2 episodes, I can of hate MBC for making a abrupt ending to this beautiful history, everything seems so rushed and incomplete for my liking, 4 more episodes would be greater and even richer for the story and more with the quality actors they had in this drama, but I guess their schedule is more important and they had to follow that. 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

14 hours ago, simplesim said:

Haha... methinks you are wishful thinking?

 

I also don't want (can't accept) sad ending but guess must be prepared for it. Especially I don't want to cry like crazy on the 1st (2nd) day of the New Year. Think its just too bad that the scheduled finale has to be on 1st Jan 2022.

 

Maybe I'm being optimistic haha but the PD team already says that they'll take another route for the final episode despite history is the biggest spoiler here, so I'm preparing for that everything can happen I think 

9 hours ago, phuong1317 said:

im prepared for a sad ending I really dont think they are going to change history but you never know personally ill be a little disappointed if they ended it happy since I watched the old drama yi san and her death made such a big impact on him and how he ruled his kingdom 

I was thinking the same but this drama is very different from "Yi San" at least from my point of view, more concentrated on the couple story than just in him as it was in "Yi San" plus the PD team say that they'll take another route in the drama last episode and maybe not follow the final in the novel so I'm preparing myself that everything can happen here hehe maybe they'll finish in their happy years as we already know how this will finish anyways  (history and novel are big spoilers)

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

13 hours ago, happiness said:

 

Seyoung updated her instagram account. She celebrated her birthday on the set.

Seems like she's wearing all white hanbok and two ideas came into my mind that means sad ending? ㅠㅠㅠ but then I notice she looks too healthy (like with make up and everything) and her hair looks like is down too not in a bun soooo that means bed scene? 

 

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

26 minutes ago, pad-hari said:

Can somebody who is well versed in korean history tell me what is the significance of the red sleeve cuff in the court lady's hanbok?  thanks 

Court ladies that receive the King grace, change their cuff to red to symbolize she was chosen by the King. Now everyone had dark pink cuff but I think soon we'll see a change in Deok Im cuff when she accept the King proposal.

The higher the rank of the concubine the more elaborate the clothes she'll wear

[[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동]

I think we must take in consideration that MBC catalogue this as fact sageuk, so they will follow the real history and taking just few spins to make the story richer or more appealing for the viewer.

 I kind of really immerse on this love story because Yi San is

 my all time favourite historical drama and because of this I started to investigate more about real Jeongjo and Deok Im, the fact that Jeongjo just became father first with Deok Im as his concubine talks a lot to how he cherished and loved her. Reading about kings and queens in Joseon era I discovered that usually (not always) when a King didn't have issue with the Queen or concubines means that they never consumated the marriage (note: concubines are also King wives, they're his legal wives too), so seeing that they both became parents at such old age for that time and the fact that he spend almost every night in Deok Im quarters (fact in RL) make me think that even if she didn't became his "official" wife he treat her as his only women.

Also history says that Queen Hyoui (San's offcial wife) adored Deok Im, because she was such a kind and well mannered lady. Someone says that the queen is the only women the king choose and this is wrong, actually concubines of low rank are the only  ones choosen by the King, Queen and concubines of high rank are usually noble families dauthers and they're selected through a extensive test, with Queen Dowager as the examinator as she's the oldest in the royal family (note: the questions the Queen ask Deok Im in the first episodes when she asked her to save San the first time are actually questions that was made to her in her exam before became a Queen) so Kings had minimal to none voice choosing their queens or some concubines.

Some are sad that San only want Deok Im to become his concubine but going back in history is the only way they can be together, his great grandfather King Sukjong established a law where concubines can't ascend to Queen because he had lot of cat fights and problems with his court when he made one of his concubines (the infamous Jang Hui Bin) queen, so I guess this law can't be demolished and the only thing that he can offer her is be his concubine. Back to the drama I can understand Deok Im, who feeling true love will want to share his loved one with others, she's not into power, position or money, she just want to have a family and good simple life with the man she loves...

[[Drama 2021] The King’s Affection, 연모]

New to the thread 

Just finish watching episode 14 and.... hmmmm I agree with many here, I surely love lovey dovey moments with our couple but come on, his insistence put me on nerves for real, the palace is a dangerous place and he already knows all the red flags and people are constantly reminding him that and he still go and put her on danger... no words really...

About Jieun father I'll give him my trust for now, I think he'll as somebody say her, will turn and betray the evil grandpa, he already shows sign of being annoyed by him and the conversation he had with the commander Yoon about having choices in life was quite interesting. I think this will be the first time he'll able to choose, I hope for the good.

Waiting for the next episode, will be interesting how everything will turn from now on