LOST

[Guest res0nate]

I hope the 'You're not supposed to raise her' line means Claire is still alive.

Uhh, is that the thing Hurley said to Jack via the message on the paper? If so, you got the wrong gender haha.

About the thing I said earlier, it was in re: to Jack and Claire.

For the record, I hate how spoilers are implemented on this site, highlighting sucks, clicking a button to reveal is so much better.

[Guest papabear]

oh right, i was thinking about claire when i was writing that...

[Guest teeny]

You know in last season's finale, the flash forward showed Jack all depressed, and wanting to go back to the island? Do you guys think that is before or after last episode's flashback?

I mean, in the last episode, it seems he has everything he wanted in life, and things are looking good for him...makes me wonder if he had recovered from his depression? Or if he is eventually going to go abit crazy

[Guest HERMIT]

You know in last season's finale, the flash forward showed Jack all depressed, and wanting to go back to the island? Do you guys think that is before or after last episode's flashback?

I mean, in the last episode, it seems he has everything he wanted in life, and things are looking good for him...makes me wonder if he had recovered from his depression? Or if he is eventually going to go abit crazy

The flashforward storytelling for this season has been non-linear thus far. I think it makes it confusing to the viewers because the audience now has to invest in scrutinizing the minutiae of what's being shown in order to figure out the nuances of the plot.

But to answer your question, the "depressed Jack" finale is ostensibly the "last" piece of the flashforward story arc. The telling clue is the fact that Jack has grown a beard and is well into the throes of alcoholism. In the episodes where he appears at Hurley's mental ward to shoot some hoops and when he appears at Kate's trial to testify, it is much earlier on in the storyline because he is still clean-shaven at the time. In last week's episode, we now see the beginning of his decline into drug and alcohol dependency and the circumstances that precipitated it.

Sad to say, but this last episode is not an instance after Jack's suicidal moment in the finale - it is actually the precursor to it.

[Guest asdfjkl;fdsajkl;]

^huh? jack committed suicide in the finale? how come i dont remember this. i thought he met up with kate at the airport and told her they had to go back to the island?

[Guest HERMIT]

^huh? jack committed suicide in the finale? how come i dont remember this. i thought he met up with kate at the airport and told her they had to go back to the island?

No, he had a "suicidal moment". Not to be confused with actually committing suicide.

In the beginning of the finale, he was utterly depressed and part of the reason for this was due to an obscure obituary clipping that he had on him when he parked his car up on the side of a bridge. Apparently somebody significant had died and it had a huge effect on him. But certainly his alcoholism must have played a big factor as well.

He had gotten out of his car and was about to jump off when there was a nearby collision and a car accident occurred. Instantly, Jack's nurturing doctor side got the better of him and he abandoned any ideas of jumping and instead went off to help victims in the car accident. Perhaps another island intervention where it won't let him die?

With that said, all that has transpired thus far into season 4, and reconsidering the way last season's finale played out, I am now of the opinion that the person in the casket is

Benjamin Linus. We have seen how Hurley has foreshadowed that the Oceanic 6 needs to go back. Jack doesn't buy into it at first, but by the time of the finale flash-forward, he comes to that conclusion as well. We've also been given hints in other episodes of Ben's presumed ability to go on and off the island at will. He knows the way - and he just might be the ticket as to how Jack gets back there too. But if it is Ben that dies off island somehow - and that's him in the casket, a relative "unknown" death in the real world (hence nobody there to attend his funeral and Kate's indifferent reaction to his passing) - then Jack effectively loses his one realistic hope of ever finding the island again. With Ben out of the picture, Jack falls into utter depression and helplessness and is pushed to the brink of suicide in his despair of failing his friends. The friends, I'm assuming, that were left on the island and are still alive. It appears that there is no place in the 'real world' for the Oceanic 6 and it's possibly not their fate to have returned. Hurley knew of this early on - and now Jack has realized it as well.

Here is a link to another - and perhaps a more realistically plausible - theory that an avid LOST fan has hypothesized. It is from this that I draw my conclusion: LOST timeloop theory

Check it out and don't take it too seriously. It's an entertaining and perhaps enlightening read.

[Guest Jah nee nee x]

^ thats makes a lot of sense but I have a feeling its

Juliette? unless I missed a part of the flash forward that confirmed she was alive

is this possible?

[Guest HERMIT]

^ thats makes a lot of sense but I have a feeling its

Juliette? unless I missed a part of the flash forward that confirmed she was alive

is this possible?

That's an interesting candidate but I'd like to hear your rationale as to why you think so.

There's no indication in flash forwards to indicate Juliet being dead or alive. For that matter, I don't think there's been any real tell-tale signs that anybody else besides the Oceanic 6 are still alive. At this point all we have is hope.

Do you remember the scene when Jack visited the mortuary? When he was greeted by the mortuary director, he was asked if he was "friend or family" and Jack replied "Neither". If it were Juliet, I would like to have thought that he considered her a "friend" at least. And considering the implied blossoming relationship that they had on the island, I would think that Jack would have liked to have the casket opened to be able to see her one last time. But in the scene, he elected not to have the director open it up for him.

Ultimately, what we can infer from the scene is that the mystery dead person is neither "friend or family" yet played a significant enough role to put Jack in his current mental state. Considering he was a friend to most Losties, his dad is already dead, and probably the next-closest person to him, Kate, is evidently still alive, this leaves only the following logical candidates: Claire, his sister; Locke, his leadership adversary; Sawyer, his romantic adversary; any of the freighter people; Michael, the betraying survivor; and Ben.

I discount Claire because evidently she is not one of the O6 - and if she was off-island somehow, I can't reconcile how Aaron wouldn't end up being with her and with Kate instead to begin with. I discount Locke and Sawyer for the same reasons that they aren't Oceanic 6'ers - and particularly for the fact that Kate didn't seem interested in attending the wake, especially in the case of if it were Sawyer laying in that casket. I discount the freighter people because whilst any one of them weren't necessarily "friends" of his, I doubt that any one of them impacted Jack enough to inspire the emotional depth of his sorrow displayed in the mortuary.

This leaves Michael and Ben as probably the likeliest candidates for being in the casket. Michael has already established an off-island alter ego and Ben has been shown to be off island as well. Neither of them were particularly 'friends' of Jack as well. I give Ben the nod simply due to the manner in which the plot has unfolded thus far and the seeming emphasis in the flash forwards that an imminent return back to the island is implied. For Michael, going back to the island is the last thing he wanted to do and he wouldn't know the way back anyway. Ben, on the other had, is a different story. Whether he liked him or not, Jack needs Ben now and fears that he may have lost that chance now that he is dead.

[Guest _dax_]

Whether he liked him or not, Jack needs Ben now and fears that he may have lost that chance now that he is dead.

This seems to be the most likely in the casket. In one flashback, Jack was at the airport and Kate drives over, meeting him there. I'm assuming, at this point in time, Jack is in the height of his depression and alcoholism; where his desperation of wanting to get 'to' the island is a must.

Ben really is the only one who knows how to 'travel' between the island and mainland.

Now for my far-stretched speculations:

Could the island be the midpoint, between life and death; the place of judgement and the place one could alter the ruling, if they were to belong in hell, heaven, or on earth. Afterall, they were in a plane crash. This would explain some odd timetravel time loops and by Hurley's comment of Charlie missing them. (S4E10) Ben could be the one in charge of this 'judgement' island. Why am I reminded of old stories of the Bermuda Triangle

[Guest Jah nee nee x]

That's an interesting candidate but I'd like to hear your rationale as to why you think so.

There's no indication in flash forwards to indicate Juliet being dead or alive. For that matter, I don't think there's been any real tell-tale signs that anybody else besides the Oceanic 6 are still alive. At this point all we have is hope.

Do you remember the scene when Jack visited the mortuary? When he was greeted by the mortuary director, he was asked if he was "friend or family" and Jack replied "Neither". If it were Juliet, I would like to have thought that he considered her a "friend" at least. And considering the implied blossoming relationship that they had on the island, I would think that Jack would have liked to have the casket opened to be able to see her one last time. But in the scene, he elected not to have the director open it up for him.

Ultimately, what we can infer from the scene is that the mystery dead person is neither "friend or family" yet played a significant enough role to put Jack in his current mental state. Considering he was a friend to most Losties, his dad is already dead, and probably the next-closest person to him, Kate, is evidently still alive, this leaves only the following logical candidates: Claire, his sister; Locke, his leadership adversary; Sawyer, his romantic adversary; any of the freighter people; Michael, the betraying survivor; and Ben.

I discount Claire because evidently she is not one of the O6 - and if she was off-island somehow, I can't reconcile how Aaron wouldn't end up being with her and with Kate instead to begin with. I discount Locke and Sawyer for the same reasons that they aren't Oceanic 6'ers - and particularly for the fact that Kate didn't seem interested in attending the wake, especially in the case of if it were Sawyer laying in that casket. I discount the freighter people because whilst any one of them weren't necessarily "friends" of his, I doubt that any one of them impacted Jack enough to inspire the emotional depth of his sorrow displayed in the mortuary.

This leaves Michael and Ben as probably the likeliest candidates for being in the casket. Michael has already established an off-island alter ego and Ben has been shown to be off island as well. Neither of them were particularly 'friends' of Jack as well. I give Ben the nod simply due to the manner in which the plot has unfolded thus far and the seeming emphasis in the flash forwards that an imminent return back to the island is implied. For Michael, going back to the island is the last thing he wanted to do and he wouldn't know the way back anyway. Ben, on the other had, is a different story. Whether he liked him or not, Jack needs Ben now and fears that he may have lost that chance now that he is dead.

Your reasoning blows my speculation out of the water .. seriously lol

I thought it was

Juliet

One because

I don't like her .. is that a spoiler? haha

and two because

I thought that may be a reason why Kate didn't feel like going to the funeral and I have a feeling it's not any of the Oceanic survivors because it seems like that would get coverage on the news along with the oceanic 6

[Guest eunjoonx3]

theyre finally getting off the island! ahh so excited..

i cant believe that

christian and claire were in jacob's cabin

!

[Guest CONSTANCE]

mannn its sooo hard to keep track of whats happening in LOST but im loving every second of it ^^

[Guest j1youngxj3]

i'm a tad bit confused...

was there a point in LOST where we found out that the island itself can move..?? or did we just find that it can move in last night's eppy?<-john said that they had to move the island..then it ended..i vaguely remember that the island can move itself...i don't remember if we knew that from previous seasons..-__-;;

anyway...so i guess last night's eppy gives us a hint about claire...she probably won't leave the island because it "chose" her to see the cabin and have a connection with it and jacob??? and i KNEW that it was going to be christian..he's popping out everywhere..

[Guest 7:45am]

i'm a tad bit confused...

was there a point in LOST where we found out that the island itself can move..?? or did we just find that it can move in last night's eppy?<-john said that they had to move the island..then it ended..i vaguely remember that the island can move itself...i don't remember if we knew that from previous seasons..-__-;;

anyway...so i guess last night's eppy gives us a hint about claire...she probably won't leave the island because it "chose" her to see the cabin and have a connection with it and jacob??? and i KNEW that it was going to be christian..he's popping out everywhere..

I think 'moving' the island meant to the different time? maybe? =S It'd seem more 'lost' if this were true haha.

[Guest dudeman]

They have always given indications that the island can move. How do you make an island invisible to the outside world? Simple: By moving it. Based on Charles Widmore's assertions during Ben's flashforward, moving the island must have succeeded, since apparently he's still trying to find it.

And for some reason, when they mention moving the island, I kept thinking about the 4 toed statue, but I don't know why...

[Guest papabear]

theyre finally getting off the island! ahh so excited..

i cant believe that

christian and claire were in jacob's cabin

!

yeah, looks like the screencaps from last season were on the mark...

[sweetcream]

i'm a tad bit confused...

was there a point in LOST where we found out that the island itself can move..?? or did we just find that it can move in last night's eppy?<-john said that they had to move the island..then it ended..i vaguely remember that the island can move itself...i don't remember if we knew that from previous seasons..-__-;;

anyway...so i guess last night's eppy gives us a hint about claire...she probably won't leave the island because it "chose" her to see the cabin and have a connection with it and jacob??? and i KNEW that it was going to be christian..he's popping out everywhere..

No, I don't think they mentioned moving the island, but there seemed to be hints.

Like why nobody can find the island. Maybe Ben knows how to move it and hide it?

Well Christian's her dad, so I can see why Claire's with him in the Cabin.

I think Claire's dead, a ghost like her dad, that's why they're hanging out lol, in Jacob's cabin.

They have always given indications that the island can move. How do you make an island invisible to the outside world? Simple: By moving it. Based on Charles Widmore's assertions during Ben's flashforward, moving the island must have succeeded, since apparently he's still trying to find it.

And for some reason, when they mention moving the island, I kept thinking about the 4 toed statue, but I don't know why...

Yeah that's what I thought too.

Parts of it must be in different locations upon the island, cause it moved. Or split?

[Guest papabear]

No, I don't think they mentioned moving the island, but there seemed to be hints.

Like why nobody can find the island. Maybe Ben knows how to move it and hide it?

Well Christian's her dad, so I can see why Claire's with him in the Cabin.

I think Claire's dead, a ghost like her dad, that's why they're hanging out lol, in Jacob's cabin.

I don't think she's dead, but I think he's clued her in on a lot. She better not be dead!

[Guest Jah nee nee x]

^

sadly, I think shes dead too, but I don't see how she died?

It makes sense now! Why Sun was crying to the tombstone like Jin was dead, she may want to go back but can't because she doesn't know where the island is ...

cause Im like 95% sure that Jin isn't dead lol. maybe im in a little denial

[Guest HERMIT]

Why all the spoiler tags for commentary that is mere speculation?

Unless I'm interpreting the purpose of spoiler tags, I thought it was to hide information confirmed to be true and upcoming on future episodes not yet seen.

But what I've been uncovering from fairly recent spoiler tags, the commentary within are just mere speculative theories on aspects of the show that aren't even confirmed yet. I don't think putting speculation within spoiler tags are particularly necessary.

For example, speculating if Claire is dead and then using pertinent evidence from past episodes to support that speculation isn't necessarily "spoiler worthy". First, it's not a confirmed statement of fact and secondly, the speculation is based on data already seen on previously-aired episodes that's been seen. However, if somebody were to state that leaked production photos from a future episode of LOST show Actor XY or Actress XX shown lying in a casket, then I would see the need to put that kind of information in between spoiler tags.

Sorry .... that's just my little rant for today. .

********************

I don't see how there were explicit indications in past episodes that the island could "move". To make the island seemingly "invisible" to the world, I don't think being able to physically "move" it was always the obvious conclusion. For example, we knew from past episodes that electromagnetism and time disparities seemed to play a big role in the mystical nature of the island: compasses didn't seem to work in season 1, the implosion of the Swan hatch initiated some kind of electromagnetic event (the purple sky), Desmond began to have future visions and then out of body experiences to his past, and then observed time disparities between leaving/entering the island (Faraday's rocket experiment/Sayid & Desmond's trip to the freighter). All of these past instances don't particularly lead me to conclude in the "physical movement" of the island, but perhaps is more in line with the implied 'movement' of the island between time and space. Could the island be some kind of entity that transcends the "physical bonds" of the real world as we know it? That is, is it capable of being in its own "bubble" of time and space that results in its ability to "hide" from the outside forces of the real world? I honestly don't know. But given the data from the episodes we've seen thus far, that would be my best interpretation of it all. When Locke states that they "need to move the island", it's still a pretty vague statement that could be taken to mean a number of different things.