[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동

[Lunkera]

@sarah_san I think she had a princess who died shortly after birth and died while being pregnant.

[baconham]

Just finished ep 17 but I don't quite get the ending - Would anybody be able to explain? Deok Im's death and the Prince's death was all a dream when he took a nap on Deok Im's lap??? So those scenes of the future king with his beard and all was also part of the dream??

Also I still can't believe the writers didn't make it a point for Deok Im to tell the King she does love him. The poor boy has said it to her many times throughout the entire drama and Deok Im did not even say it back to him once even after choosing to stay with him and having his child? It's not like the King forced her to stay either cause he gave her a choice to leave or stay. Gahhh

[celflor]

29 minutes ago, baconham said:

Just finished ep 17 but I don't quite get the ending - Would anybody be able to explain? Deok Im's death and the Prince's death was all a dream when he took a nap on Deok Im's lap??? So those scenes of the future king with his beard and all was also part of the dream??

Also I still can't believe the writers didn't make it a point for Deok Im to tell the King she does love him. The poor boy has said it to her many times throughout the entire drama and Deok Im did not even say it back to him once even after choosing to stay with him and having his child? It's not like the King forced her to stay either cause he gave her a choice to leave or stay. Gahhh

I think they made it to the viewer consideration, you can take it as 1) was just a dream and as he knows the "future" choose to change(?)that.

2) was in the afterlife (I believe this version) and he's happily living with his one and truly love. 

As I say before Deok Im was more an action person and I think all her actions and her attitude screams truly love for him. Even in the novel she never told him she loved him 

 

 

[Soshi831]

This isn’t a traditional drama love story. In fact I wouldn’t even deem it a tragic love story. I view this drama as a story about the lives of the women that revolve around the King of Joseon. So beautifully well done. It showed three generations of “Kings/Princes” and how women were treated around them. Grandfather wielded his power and you needed to be useful to him. He wasn’t unnecessarily cruel but the people beneath him were in fact beneath him. In the drama he was paranoid. The son was a sadistic cruel man and the grandson was kind and gentle. Many women in the drama lived through all three generations. And it shows how you need to adapt in the palace. Depending on who is in power. 

[libra22]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rocher22]

Junho simply looks so powerful on the screen...     

It doesnt matter if its a scene where he is calm and thoughtful or its a

sensual scene with Deokim...

 

 

 

 

I dont know what was sadder.

Deokim's life as a concubine or San's life after Deokim's death.

 

Its ok, all great loves are sad.

 

[PrincessMe2515]

Hi all, I have been stalking this forum and this drama over at Twitter at sometime.

 

 

I'm thinking we should all do a petition to ask MBC to release a special (not a BTS) so we can see the timeskip between ep 16 and EP 17.. @suhodorable at Twitter has suggested that we try to ping them via the MBC bulletin board.

 

guys asking for your support to post pls and request this. Any other better approaches pls suggest

 

Link to bulletin board:

https://program.imbc.com/BBS/redsleeve?bbs_id=redsleeve_bbs

 

[mskololia1]

The final 2 episodes plunged me into the losses beautifully scripted and portrayed by these characters from family of children, husband of wife, and those of friends.  Deeply riveting and immersive.  Kudos to all involved that brought SK history to life.

[realistic2280a]

16 hours ago, blackberrypie said:

 

No. The entire drama's theme is about the sad life of the women in the palace. Whether one is loved by the King or not, their lives are all sad.. Daebi who can't mourn for her brother who died, she said the palace is actually a prison to the women.. San's mother likewise, did not live a happy life, as she lost her husband, even if her son became King in the end.. the loneliness and sadness of their daily lives in the palace is something nothing can be replaced. Deok Im's friend who chose to have an affair with another man and died for it, Head Court Lady who was thrown aside by King Yeongjo (San's grandfather), in favour of Yeongbin (San's grandmother), Wol Hye who rebelled against San and was killed, Won Bin (Deok Ro's sister) who died suddenly from depression, etc. Every woman in the palace have a sad story. That is the entire theme of the drama. 

 

Deok Im likewise knows that once she becomes the King's concubine, she becomes a prisoner of the palace. Even if San loves her, he cannot fill all the moments of her life.. he has other commitments, other ppl who requires his time. As DI narrated in one scene, her daytime is just spent waiting for San. The question of whether DI loves San as much as he loves her, that is actually shown in her actions, not her words. It is because she loves him so much, that she stayed behind, even knowing the sad and lonely life ahead of her, she stayed. In her dying breath she said it, if she didn't want to, she would have done all she could to runaway from the palace. But it was her choice to stay with him in the end. 

 

Had internet problems and couldnt log in until now... sigh...

 

Just finish ep 16 and 17... 

 

In response to blackberrypies, when these ladies entered the palace, they knew what they were supposed to do, they were taught and educated of the palace ways... they are the King's women if the King chooses so... 

 

So for DI, we knew from the beginning that she was there because she didnt have a house, hence prefer to be at the palace (which reminds me, she could have stayed at San's mom mansion but why did she leave at an young age, again? I forgot - she wanted to find her brother and want her brother to join the military, and pay for his success? She couldnt do that at San's mom mansion?)....

 

What im saying is, yes the palace is a lonely place for those who are married to the royal family then but for the palace maids, they know what they were getting into... it was their choice to be there and they knew the consequences, ie there is a chance that the king or crown prince who can choose them to be their concubines... As palace maids, they have to follow orders... if they dont like it, then they can leave (didnt DI's friend did once when she was helping out her aunt at a restaurant?)

 

Wasnt San nice enough to wait for DI for 15 years before she said yes?... she couldnt bear to leave him, as San said he will never see her again if she refused him that night (and how is it that DI can become concubine so fast...i thought that might be a ceremony for that... but nope, with San's desire to protect her from his nasty Concubine, San immediatedly protected DI by making her his concubine)... wished her ring she wore was given and put on by San himself rather than headlady?... 

 

Grandfather's wife's brother was a traitor, so why should San let him go? He would have kill San if he had the chance, right? San's mother, yes, unhappy due to circumstances of her husband's death but since she is still the CP's and then the King's mom.. she had some status...they are born aristocratic, they know what to expect... Deok Im friend who had the affair knew the consequences of her action; the evil headwoman was jealous of San's grandma but she knew the life as a palace maid, she was the one longing for the king and choose to be at his side; Wol Hye brainwashed to be bad, so she got what she deserved? And Won Bin, because of his brother arrangement, got her killed as she wasnt used to palace politics and wasnt prepared for it as she was still young. 

 

For 15 years, DI knew San was a CP and will be King and she wised that he will be king eventually and helped him achieved that dream. San as King has responsibilities, and she was born on that era, understood the protocols and she cant expect much, except hope that the King will not forget her if he had other concubines. We saw in the drama that San spent most of his nights at DI's place (and how come she got that house which is not as fancy as other consort palace, haha) until her final days... so in a way DI would be grateful to San's attention to her...  San had said he will let her go, but can DI stand not seeig him... they have tried it before, separated for a year...  obviously both didnt want that to happen again...

 

Im not saying its right but its how life was like that back then... if i read about the herems of the Ottomans, its the same story, so too the herem of the Chinese emperors... its a prison for women.. but for the Red Sleeve, we saw more humanistic palace maids working within its compound.... and a CP who happened to fall for one. San didnt expect to fall for a palace maid, hence his arrogant speech of marrying women of high rank... but he did and lived to eat his words, constantly asking the woman he loved if she loved him as much... 

 

Sigh...

[minglanfan2]

4 hours ago, celflor said:

I really liked how you pointed out some interesting things, actually in real history almost all her older sisters became concubines, there's a record of one sister that was made concubine of one of Lady Hyegyeong (San's Mom) brother so maybe that experience made her think well about the life of a concubine. In the drama she actually wanted to become one when she was little, after she saw the funeral of Lady Yi Yeongbin (San's Biological Grandma) and the history Head Court Lady Jo told her about dying inside the palace, that make her think that if she become a concubine or a high rank court lady she'll have the money and power to help her brother. Little she know the hardships that being a concubine means. She started to change after all the things Lady Jo do and she experienced, she knew then the danger and the manipulation that was involved on the court. Plus to that the conversation that San had with his mom too make her change automatically her thinking about concubines and their life inside the palace

About she being trapped inside and not able to go out, that was the rule for all royal family ladies, after she received the King's favor she automatically become part of the royal family, that means she is not longer part of her family as she's the King's family now, example for that is when the Dowager Queen couldn't go to her own brother funeral. Being a royal lady was difficult and had lot of rules to follow, even if San allowed Deok Im for going out she had yet to pass the Queen filter as the Queen is the head of all ladies in the court.

In real history too Uibin was known for not accept any of the benefits and power that means being King's concubine, she lived a very frugal life she didn't allow her chambers to be luxurious or being built from zero, she just stay in a normal building and is believed that she do some remodeling by her own, in the drama we saw that her home was outside the palace main complex and was very simple yet cozy.

Even Jeongjo take her as  example and start living simple. A thing I liked too and the drama take it in consideration was that her nephew was made royal guard as his father, because this happen in real history.

Thanks for sharing the historical tidbits.Interesting that all her sisters married above their station and not a same status commoner to be his legal wife. Also shared their husbands with other women. 

 

The dumpling scene comes to mind.A king who is used to eating the finest food is given a bowl of dumplings which were awful to eat and look on his birthday.He humored her.Appreciated that she ventured to do something which she was bad at.

If she were married to a common man would he tolerate such food on his birthday and cherish it?

My liberal and understanding husband wouldn't in this modern era.He would try his level best to make sure I don't take this trouble as a labor of love and order take out instead.

[realistic2280a]

6 hours ago, minglanfan2 said:

Your post made me wonder about DoekIm's real reason for  rejecting San.In the modern era freedom/independence makes a lot of sense to me.Was it really valuable for Doek Im like it is to me in the present?She belonged to the family of a traitor.Was adopted by the servant of San's mom.If she were to marry a commoner life wouldn't be easy.Her husband might have married another.Making ends meet may have been difficult.A woman either a cocubine or a commoner's wife was a second class citizen in that era.Her degree of freedom would be dependent on her husband just as it was for a concubine.

I increasingly feel her rejections were the only ace up her sleeve.The most powerful and sought after man in the kingdom couldn't win the heart of a court lady who neither had power,wealth,accomplishments or extraordinary beauty. The challenge to be her 1st priority would always keep San's interest in her amidst his queen,concubines and other women. That understanding makes her an extremely astute lady. She should have caught on the fact that others were ready to exploit this weakness of the king..Maybe she was confident of evading being a pawn hence the earlier rejections. This is what I could gather from the drama having not read the novel.

 

 

 

Thanks @minglanfan2... right...one do wonder why the real DI rejected San back then, ya ... 15 years is very long... for San to wait for her... and for it all to end within 4-5 years? If one is superstitious, one would say this is a bad omen, especially in East Asian communities... hmm...

 

But yes, she had the option to leave the palace, and if she did, like you said, she probably had to marry someone's as a 2nd wife due to her family status, true and sad.. so the only way is to be in the palace... the ^freedom^ to make/earn money, having a status as a palace maid and leave the palace once a month to enjoy picnic and shopping? Hmmm... 

 

There is something more to the story than what we were told... i feel the palace politics takes centre stage, first we see how bad was San's trauma at his grandfather's hand as crown prince... his father's history which probably makes him dislike having a lot of women? Maybe... 

Then the palace maids, but most of it was abput how DI rejected San's proposal several times until ep 16.

 

I dont blame DI for being angry with San after he scolded her for being sad for sometime after their son's death, 1st class concubine or not, she was still a mother, and was pregnant hence  a lot of hormones at work... it surprises me.that the court's medical team didnt detect DI's liver cancer (as per history reason for her death) earlier on.. and we could have a different scenario had that angle was explored instead of San asking DI if she loved him in her last breath... Sighhhhhhhh....

 

[libra22]

 

 

[realistic2280a]

4 hours ago, celflor said:

I really liked how you pointed out some interesting things, actually in real history almost all her older sisters became concubines, there's a record of one sister that was made concubine of one of Lady Hyegyeong (San's Mom) brother ....

 

4 hours ago, celflor said:

In real history too Uibin was known for not accept any of the benefits and power that means being King's concubine, she lived a very frugal life she didn't allow her chambers to be luxurious or being built from zero, she just stay in a normal building and is believed that she do some remodeling by her own, in the drama we saw that her home was outside the palace main complex and was very simple yet cozy.

Even Jeongjo take her as  example and start living simple. A thing I liked too and the drama take it in consideration was that her nephew was made royal guard as his father, because this happen in real history.

 

Im curious, where can we read the english version of the history of Deok Im as you have written above? Can you show me the reference, would love to read more on her... thanks 

[pnaysurfer84]

Hi! I’ve been lurking in this thread since last week so i can find out just how the international community is reacting to it being a sageuk drama. I’ve only watched fantasy and fusion sageuks in the past, this is actually my first historical one. Red Sleeve did not disappoint any expectations I had. Maybe it was the acting, from Lee Se Young having seen her act in Crowned Clown and then Lee Jun Ho’s - I watched Wok of Love and Rain or Shine for the female leads and ended up loving his acting abilities instead. Also everything about the Red Sleeve BTS and their chemistry behind all of it - just superb, super stellar. I’m leaving my thoughts about this drama here. Please bare with me because it’s been a long minute since I posted on any thread on Soompi. 

 

I never thought I’d be bawling my eyes out into the New Year but here I am. The last 2 episodes of Red Sleeve got me. Maybe it was the acting, the OST, the tug at the heart strings knowing it was the final weekend to see this masterpiece, etc. There were loop holes that needed to be filled in. Somehow, i wanted to see Uibin’s funeral. Was her funeral like the late kings concubine/royal consort? Did she get a royal procession dying within the palace walls? We see the contrast of how that was portrayed when the former Senior Court Lady killed herself in front of the king and was just walked out on stretcher like she was nothing. 

 

Maybe the fact that this drama was a working collaboration by women - writer and PD - that it showed the POV of women, may it be royal or royal servant. Sung Deuk IM’s progressive POV in a world where woman were objectified caught the eyes of many female viewers. Women like Sung Deuk Im walks the streets everyday, choosing life for themselves than another. But comparing that isn’t enough. For Deuk Im, living a life she chose in Joseon is not a safe life for her. Being a court lady who is in the favors of the king will get you in the jealous side of a concubine, ie. Hwabin. Episode 16 had me trembling in anger when Hwabin tried to frame Deuk Im by going through her things and taking her brother’s gift to her and using it against her. It was sorted out within the 10 mins of the episode, BUT MAN! Ugh! I was so annoyed because this Hyebin chick didn’t know her history and she bad mouthed the late Prince Sado in front of his family. Did you all see everyone’s disbelief when she called him a traitor?! Goes to show she didn’t follow up with her uncle about the kings father. 

 

Btw, I swooned throughout the bed scene. Laughed when the older court ladies, eunuch and royal guard were trying to decide who should wake up his highness from his slumber after bedding Deuk Im. Cried most of episode 16 because life looked so promising for the King and his love. Having to have gotten Deuk Im pregnant within 3 months. Insane. Then I realised the king must have been with her every night. DING! 

 

Episode 17 was a beautiful cry fest. I’m a lost for words. But like I said, there were loop holes. Maybe i can just imagine that Deuk Im had a funeral she deserved because she was beloved by the king. In the end - it’s an open bittersweet ending. I want to believe that they are in the after life. In real time, the king would always tell Deuk Im that he loves her but he doesn’t allow her to say anything. He merely just says that he doesn’t care how she felt, which is true at the period. But in his heart of hearts, like how they portrayed the ending, we all knew that statement “Please love me” was all he wanted to repeatedly say to her in life. There were moments in the drama where you see Deuk Im struggling with her choices. Invisible and visible tears were being shed. Her wanting what she wants in life or giving in to the promises of the king even though she won’t have him for herself.

 

Btw, did anyone see the rainbow in the last part of Ep. 17? Rainbows signify hope. There’s always hope in the end. So keep hoping. 

 

Y’all! I’m still processing the end of the drama so my thoughts are all over the place. 

 

This is a great drama. Won’t be rewatching it any time soon but i enjoyed it immensely. 
 

p.s. 

I found this on IG and I don’t know whose hand LSY is holding in the last slide but invested and intrigued 

 

https://www.instagram.com/lsy_content/p/CYOKcmspaqJ/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

 

 

[pauliza]

5 hours ago, sarah_san said:

Just a question please, did theyhave another son before she died? thanks in advance.

 

Nope .According to this wiki ,she passed away (with her 3rd child  ) just  a few months after her son (The crown prince ) died .

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Noble_Consort_Uibin_Seong

 

[minglanfan2]

3 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

 

Thanks @minglanfan2... right...one do wonder why the real DI rejected San back then, ya ... 15 years is very long... for San to wait for her... and for it all to end within 4-5 years? If one is superstitious, one would say this is a bad omen, especially in East Asian communities... hmm...

 

But yes, she had the option to leave the palace, and if she did, like you said, she probably had to marry someone's as a 2nd wife due to her family status, true and sad.. so the only way is to be in the palace... the ^freedom^ to make/earn money, having a status as a palace maid and leave the palace once a month to enjoy picnic and shopping? Hmmm... 

 

There is something more to the story than what we were told... i feel the palace politics takes centre stage, first we see how bad was San's trauma at his grandfather's hand as crown prince... his father's history which probably makes him dislike having a lot of women? Maybe... 

Then the palace maids, but most of it was abput how DI rejected San's proposal several times until ep 16.

 

I dont blame DI for being angry with San after he scolded her for being sad for sometime after their son's death, 1st class concubine or not, she was still a mother, and was pregnant hence  a lot of hormones at work... it surprises me.that the court's medical team didnt detect DI's liver cancer (as per history reason for her death) earlier on.. and we could have a different scenario had that angle was explored instead of San asking DI if she loved him in her last breath... Sighhhhhhhh....

 

@realistic2280a good insights.

Even though their marital life was short.They had a long relationship spanning over many years.

As you mentioned San's desire to be seen differently than his father grandfather played a big part in relationships with his women.His appreciation of DoekIm's frugal way of life perhaps highlighted that and endeared her more to him.The more I learn about her my admiration grows.What a sharp lady! She understood the king so well and made such a lasting impression on him.

In different cultures have read about kings leaving behind monuments,gardens etc., as a remembrance to the woman they loved.Very few left documentations talking  favourably about women they liked who were not mothers,grandmothers or queens.I find this gesture of San the most thoughtful.Her existence is not just a folklore or one brief footnote but quite a few references in different records.They were not erased even when she died without any one to make sure she was remembered.The king did that for her. DoekIm in fact did manage to have a loyal husband which was one of her dearest wishes.

[Soshi831]

Who could truly be happy back then? And what defined that happiness? No one was truly free, least of all the King. 
 

What makes this drama better than your average drama is the fact you ask yourself these questions, while thoroughly enjoying the drama. These characters were layered upon layer. I love it! 

[celflor]

5 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

 

 

Im curious, where can we read the english version of the history of Deok Im as you have written above? Can you show me the reference, would love to read more on her... thanks 

There's just Lady Hyegyeong Memoirs in english version, all other records included Jeongjo writings and records of his reign years I only founded and read in korean

 

Lady Hyegyeong Memoirs English version 

 

And then I found this interesting post too with lot of good information about their love story story https://thetalkingcupboard.com/2021/12/31/the-red-sleeve-history-her-story-and-their-love-story/

 

Hope works and you can find some answers to your questions 

[rocher22]

The King - '' Are you left alone as well'

Kyung Hee - '' Im not alone..''

 

Yep, the King won the battle but lost the war.

 

 

[Latte_Anyday]

Happy 2022 everybody~

 

What a finale!

My heart goes out to Junho LoL he cried buckets in the finale, poor baby huhuhu.. congrats to him btw for his well deserved award. 

    The love San had for Deok Im was beautiful, yet bittersweet. I liked that she was the only woman he ever devoted himself to right up until his demise..

    I felt for Deok Im as well especially her inner monologues.. life as a concubine is lonely as their status is not that of wife. In relationships in general we women do stand more to lose and we give so much in the relationship. At least Deok Im was cherished and beloved.

 

This drama will definitely stay in my memory for a long time. Hope to see Junho be with Se Young again as a couple in a future drama.