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Hello new here! Well I think i've read every single thread in this topic :D 

So....THANK You! I enjoy all your thoughts, all of them! :D...Please dont stop! hahaha I was starting to get worrying again about how this faboulous show is gonna end...but reading you, just made laugh: bravo :p! We should not forget that it's a comedy genre after all, and that the staff wanted to entertain first (not making us sad feeling).

ps: sorry for my english its not my native ;).

 

I have few thoughts to share^^:  In the opening scenery we see two moons becoming one up Cheol's figure, and also the last image show our queen without visage (face). Her face ARE the 2 moons...(few butterflies are there too, i guess for the butterfly effect SoBong created with the eunuque, but also Soyong before her, when she reaches for Jang Bong and not leting go her own soul..).

 

Than, again, wondering about all of the water element. Its everywhere: pool,lake, well, blind woman write with water too...that is a very motherlike symbol, also an life symbol, like motherhood and pool of ever living or youth....renewals, revivals etc...Just turning this into my head and wandering what are the writers intentions...Also with this questioning, could it be related to queen dowager shamanic world? (they ment to get out BonHwang soul with the shaman)...

 

Hey and could you tell me please aven in pm if no possible otherwise, if the 10 minutes bonuses are going to be visible on the usual way, for those like me who are to far away from Korea? (it's only possible for me to wait the sub versions elsewhere than on tv... ;) ).

 

Thank you again, love your brainstorming and great imagination :D *cheer and wave*

6 minutes ago, shimshimae said:

a very happy birthday to you! at the very least we'll have the tango scene, don't worry, have fun and enjoy your weekend :)

Yeay happy birthday! Happy Birthday Baby GIF

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Guide of : how the royal child was made         

The Tale Of The King’s Failed Mission   Our king had a very important mission, he even sent his brother away in order to succeed in his task.   5 minutes later.  

Watching it with subs made the final episode even worse.   I’m so tired of people saying So Bong was only influenced by So Yong’s emotions and feelings. You people had your happy generic het

So this is a scene from the 2nd ep

f1WSdGZ.png

 

 

Prince Yeongpyeong is the one saying this to the King - they are afraid that the Queen heard them talking about their plans and want to silence her, and it seems that the King is hesitating -  I didn't get this line from the 1st time I watched the ep - so, is there a connection to the fact that he had feelings for her and tried to suppress them for the reason that she was part of the Andong Kim Clan? 

 

What do you think?

 

thank you @shimshimae, so kind of you!

 

same to you!:star:

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19 minutes ago, kara_mella said:

So this is a scene from the 2nd ep

 

 

 

Prince Yeongpyeong is the one saying this to the King - they are afraid that the Queen heard them talking about their plans and want to silence her, and it seems that the King is hesitating - so I didn't get this line from the 1st time I watched the ep - so, is there a connection to the fact that he had feelings for her and tried to suppress them for the reason that she was part of the Andong Kim Clan? 

 

What do you think?

 

thank you @shimshimae, so kind of you!

 

same to you!:star:


The way I interpreted it was more “Do not let your guilt get in the way.”

 

Remember, Cheoljong is a decent and compassionate person and killing another human being must be traumatic for him. It’d definitely weigh on his conscience! And she wasn’t just any random person. Even if he didn’t love her then, she was still his wife bounded by laws and by gods.

 

This is my interpretation because they didn’t decide until later to shoot a spin-off story, so that’s why I think they weren’t talking about romantic feelings.

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I'd rather have the real SY reincarnated elsewhere and not be wth CJ.. CJ doesn't deserve the real SY. She deserves better. If the spin off shows CJ being in love with her, then CL loves two women at the same time?

Soul merging is a no for me. SY doesn'r have her own consciousness in her own body. It's fully controlled by BH. It's unfair if they do soul merging. I just want my girl happy with the person who deserves her.

 

She will never know that CJ liked her, she died knowing he hates her. She will never hear the apology she deserves too.

 

BH's soul living inside SY's body is not SoYong. It's just BH..not eveb Sobong. It's only SY if she controls her thoughts and feelings. 

1 minute ago, aisling said:


The way I interpreted it was more “Do not let your guilt get in the way.”

 

Remember, Cheoljong is a decent and compassionate person and killing another human being must be traumatic for him. It’d definitely weigh on his conscience! And she wasn’t just any random person. Even if he didn’t love her then, she was still his wife by laws and by gods.

He was willing to kill her on ep2, he was willing to kill her the night he used some potion thingy on her tea. He had a knife in his sleeves.

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9 minutes ago, kara_mella said:

So this is a scene from the 2nd ep

 

Prince Yeongpyeong is the one saying this to the King - they are afraid that the Queen heard them talking about their plans and want to silence her, and it seems that the King is hesitating - so I didn't get this line from the 1st time I watched the ep - so, is there a connection to the fact that he had feelings for her and tried to suppress them for the reason that she was part of the Andong Kim Clan? 

 

What do you think?

 

thank you @shimshimae, so kind of you!

 

same to you!:star:

thank you! :)

my revised understanding given that they are doing mini-episodes - (in one of my earlier posts I thought SY and BH could be different souls since their essence seemed so different) but now I'm thinking they might go towards the same soul route (otherwise the mini-episodes would not make sense) - SY and BH maybe two ends of the same soul - they have complementary qualities - SY is pure, courageous but also passive in a sense - BH is the opposite - he's crafty, street-smart and highly adaptable - it's possible that CJ fell for both ends of these spectrum - but then that leaves his love interest in HJ in question - did he truly like HJ or convinced himself that liking HJ was better than falling for SY, who belongs to the enemy clan - either ways CJ looks like he was in a messy situation lol but I do believe that it is So Bong who becomes someone he cannot live without - I hope they make a satisfactory resolution - it looks so tricky just thinking all of these possibilities 

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5 hours ago, Cheorinshair said:

 

He was willing to kill her on ep2, he was willing to kill her the night he used some potion thingy on her tea. He had a knife in his sleeves.


He was willing to kill her if it was the only solution for keeping his cause hidden and protected. Before he’s a man, he’s also the king of the nation.

 

No one’s saying he was fair to her - on the contrary, he was very unfair and mean to her, but on the other hand he had reasons to hate Andong Kim clan. They murdered his whole family before his eyes and tried to drown him in that well. 
 

He shouldn’t have make his decisions purely on the prejudices that So Yong was from Andong Kim clan, but you have to understand that So Yong wasn’t strong or crafty enough to show him otherwise. She could have fought back and showed him she deserved better from him, but she resigned in the end because everything was too overwhelming for her.

 

It was So Bong whose brash personality and “devil may care” attitude that made Cheoljong change the way he saw her. So Yong might have loved him purely, but she didn’t have “balls” and knowledges to be Cheoljong’s equal partner and she couldn’t have helped him the way So Bong can help him now.

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11 minutes ago, shimshimae said:

thank you! :)

my revised understanding given that they are doing mini-episodes - (in one of my earlier posts I thought SY and BH could be different souls since their essence seemed so different) but now I'm thinking they might go towards the same soul route (otherwise the mini-episodes would not make sense) - SY and BH maybe two ends of the same soul - they have complementary qualities - SY is pure, courageous but also passive in a sense - BH is the opposite - he's crafty, street-smart and highly adaptable - it's possible that CJ fell for both ends of these spectrum - but then that leaves his love interest in HJ in question - did he truly like HJ or convinced himself that liking HJ was better than falling for SY, who belongs to the enemy clan - either ways CJ looks like he was in a messy situation lol but I do believe that it is So Bong who becomes someone he cannot live without - I hope they make a satisfactory resolution - it looks so tricky just thinking all of these possibilities 

I'd rather have BH end up with CJ and let SY be reincarnated elsewhere.. when he confessed that he likes her,the personality he was describing was BH's not SY. And i dont think it's Sobong, it's only BH. It will only be Sobong if both of their consciousness is present. Same soul theory is still unfair to SY. So the only happy ending for her is her soul really died that night nd got reincarnated elsewhere. 

2 minutes ago, aisling said:


He was willing to kill her if it was the only solution for keeping his cause hidden and protected. Before he’s a man, he’s also the king of the nation.

 

No one’s saying he was fair to her - on the contrary, he was very unfair and mean to her, but on the other hand he had reasons to hate Andong Kim clan. They murdered his whole family before his eyes and tried to drown him in that well. 
 

He shouldn’t have make his decisions purely on the prejudices that So Yong was from Andong Kim clan, but you have to understand that So Yong wasn’t strong or crafty enough to show him otherwise. She couldn’t have fought back and showed him she deserved better from him, but she resigned in the end because everything was too overwhelming for her.

 

It was So Bong whose brash personality and “devil may care” attitude that made Cheoljong change the way he saw her. So Yong might have loved him purely, but she didn’t have “balls” and knowledges to be Cheoljong’s equal partner and she couldn’t have helped him the way So Bong can protect him now.

That's why I'd rather have the real SY be reincarnated somewhere else.. CJ can have all his harem and BH to himself.. CJ doesn't deserve SY. And the current situation is already unfair to her. 

 

Just let BH live in Joseon and have SY reicarnated in present.

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20 minutes ago, Cheorinshair said:

 

 

Just let BH live in Joseon and have SY reicarnated in present.

spacer.png

 

 

*Persistent phone ringtone coming from the shoe.Driiiiiiiing!driing...

- CH: "  Hello? Hello? ...someone on the phone? Soyong are you there? i'm in trouble!!!! I'm stuck...anyone?:bawling:

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hi everyone again i haven't been here for a while ^^;;

 

seeing the preview for bamboo forest actually made me remember the time cheoljong volunteered to go after and kill sobong - he stopped prince yangpyeong (who we all know would finish the job without any hesitance consider how prejudiced he was against the entire andong kim at that time) and volunteered to go instead. prince yangpyeong then said "don't let your personal feelings cloud your judgement". back then i thought it was surprising he said that - it meant that he was aware that cheoljong had a soft spot for soyong, insinuating he possibly had some feelings for her even back then. 

 

twice he could have easily killed her, but both times he decided to give her a chance to explain first. i mean, it could also be because she's the queen and her death may cause a uproar in the andong kim, but just that seeing the preview of the new spin off explaining that CJ possibly had feelings for SY from before first made me think of these instances that possibly hinted at this as well. 

 

 

oh and really random thought but i wonder if oo wol will return in the last 4 eps? it's not confirmed that she's dead right?

 

it's just 2 more days to mr queen day everyone!! stay strong :''D hopefully there will be actual kisses this weekend :''DDD

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What if Cheoljong banned polygamy? With the way he’s trying to modernise the country, wouldn’t it be a powerful message? If the king can give up on his concubines, so can others.

 

Joseon women were bound to their husbands even if they died. Women couldn’t divorce their husbands and widows couldn’t remarry. By renouncing polygamy and his marriages to all the concubines, he would actually free them to be able to marry again to someone who would love them.

 

I’m going to sob so hard if the future Cheoljong will be celebrated as the wise king and true reformist :bawling:

 

- banning polygamy 

- uprooting corruption 

- new laws  protecting common people

- loving his queen unconditionally until the end 

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1 hour ago, Cheorinshair said:

I'd rather have BH end up with CJ and let SY be reincarnated elsewhere.. when he confessed that he likes her,the personality he was describing was BH's not SY. And i dont think it's Sobong, it's only BH. It will only be Sobong if both of their consciousness is present. Same soul theory is still unfair to SY. So the only happy ending for her is her soul really died that night nd got reincarnated elsewhere. 

That's why I'd rather have the real SY be reincarnated somewhere else.. CJ can have all his harem and BH to himself.. CJ doesn't deserve SY. And the current situation is already unfair to her. 

 

Just let BH live in Joseon and have SY reicarnated in present.

what I find interesting about So Bong's characterisation is depending on how one looks at her - they can derive for themselves whether she is SY or BH or a merged soul etc etc - some find that disappearance of male voice as the point of merging, some believe SY soul's really died after ep 13 lake scene, some find So Bong to be a full female just tomboyish, some believe it's a disguised BL - in all these cases they can find their own justifications - I don't think there's one true answer to this unless the writers themselves reveal their point of view - I think they must have purposely done this to have a wide viewer base 

 

I actually find CJ worthy of redeeming himself and he has done so repeatedly episode after episode once he started overcoming his prejudices - he persistently tries to make amends and fully knows that that what he did is irredeemable but he still wants to try his best to make at least the present better for So Bong.

 

Most of the characters in Josean time really have very tragic lives - even the bad guys - I don't see any truly happy ones - if it weren't for the comedy - this would have been a super tragic drama 

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Take this spoiler with a grain of salt, I don’t know how legit it is!

 

 

If this is true, then how about Hwa Jin? He loved Hwa Jin but also fell in love at the first sight with So Yong??! 

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25 minutes ago, aisling said:

Take this spoiler with a grain of salt, I don’t know how legit it is!

 

If this is true, then how about Hwa Jin? He loved Hwa Jin but also fell in love at the first sight with So Yong??! 

This is why I don't like CJ for SY ..He easily fell in and out of love...

Edited by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!
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2 hours ago, aisling said:


The way I interpreted it was more “Do not let your guilt get in the way.”

 

Remember, Cheoljong is a decent and compassionate person and killing another human being must be traumatic for him. It’d definitely weigh on his conscience! And she wasn’t just any random person. Even if he didn’t love her then, she was still his wife bounded by laws and by gods.

 

This is my interpretation because they didn’t decide until later to shoot a spin-off story, so that’s why I think they weren’t talking about romantic feelings.

사사로운 (감)정 can be translated with / personal feelings/ indeed, but it leads to misunderstanding the situation; - /emotions/ would have been a better choice - I remember watching this scene and wondering if he had been in love with her or had feelings for her - so I've had it stuck in my mind for a while as you can see...

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2 hours ago, Cheorinshair said:

I'd rather have the real SY reincarnated elsewhere and not be wth CJ.. CJ doesn't deserve the real SY. She deserves better. If the spin off shows CJ being in love with her, then CL loves two women at the same time?

Soul merging is a no for me. SY doesn'r have her own consciousness in her own body. It's fully controlled by BH. It's unfair if they do soul merging. I just want my girl happy with the person who deserves her.

 

She will never know that CJ liked her, she died knowing he hates her. She will never hear the apology she deserves too.

 

BH's soul living inside SY's body is not SoYong. It's just BH..not eveb Sobong. It's only SY if she controls her thoughts and feelings. 

He was willing to kill her on ep2, he was willing to kill her the night he used some potion thingy on her tea. He had a knife in his sleeves.

 

Do we actually know the real So Yong, to say that he doesn't deserve her?
So far we know she had people tortured because she was upset and everyone in the palace was afraid of her. Only her close people said "nice" things.
I mean everyone in this story is a grey character, nobody is completely evil or an angel, and if CJ didn't owe to

her to like her. He was actually willing to kill that awful person from Kim clan, he didn't know the actual So Yong, he knew a girl from a prestigious family who made other people suffer like they did to his family. 

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8 hours ago, aisling said:

@enzek You just summarised my biggest fear for Mr Queen ending! If they’re making a prequel about So Yong and Cheoljong backstory, then it means logically that they’re the endgame! Why would they make a story of how they met before she became the queen otherwise, right?

 

The jealous part of synopsis confuses me as well. Does it mean Cheoljong fell for So Yong before he found out she belonged to Andong Kim clan? If he felt something for her, how the hell was he able to behave in such a cold, mean, and cruel manner to her during the first episodes of Mr Queen??! There was no hint of warmth in his eyes when he looked at her! So when did he have time crushing on her and then switching to detesting her??!

 

And if So Yong and So Bong personalities are different, does it mean he fell for her twice? Like falling for two different people?

 

This is making my head spin. It’s so unfair to So Yong dying like that after being treated by Cheoljong so coldly. But it’s also so unfair to Bong Hwan who won Cheoljong trust and heart, who changed the history by giving Cheoljong courage and means to be a strong and wise king. Bong Hwan is literally carrying their child together, is he going back to the future to continue his playboy life like nothing happened??!

 

If they’re not the same soul, then what was the point of the whole story?

 

If Bong Hwan has different soul from So Yong and this drama end with Cheol Jong and So Yong living happily with the baby as the endgame then this is kind of a tragedy for Bong Hwan.

  • Bong Hwan's soul was there at the royal wedding ceremony as Cheol Jong's bride. 
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong gave the truth serum using his mouth and they had an intense confrontation until Cheol Jong realized he was being unfair to his queen because of his prejudice towards the people from the Kim's clan.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong started to look at his queen with the loving eyes.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong jumped into the lake to save his queen.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong covered his snooping activity with a kiss which led to a passionate make out moment between them.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when they happily exchanged letters even it was because of misdelivered.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong consummated their marriage and Bong Hwan admitted he enjoyed it despite his inner conflict.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong gave hug and confessed about his feeling:tears: "Despite all your flaws, I still like you"
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong rushed to his queen because worried about the clans plan. 
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong reassured his queen that he will save Dam Hyang.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong tried to give a kiss in the morning with their head lying on the table after their discussion on the night before.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong did all the funny faces just to cheer up his queen without caring about his royal images.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong was excited to hear more about the government in the future and then Hwa Jin witnessed they fell asleep on the table.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when they discussed about the military tactics and when Cheol Jong got jealous of Kim Hwan.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when Cheol Jong said he is worried his queen will get lonely and tried to kiss his queen again.
  • Bong Hwan's soul was there when the royal physician announced the pregnancy news and Cheol Jong cried in joy because he was so happy.

Whatever it is, Bong Hwan is also the part "I'll Make A Man Out Of You" of Cheol Jong so he become a good ruler, husband and a future father.

 

In the process, not only Bong Hwan lost his physical body and his inner voice, he is also losing his sexuality as a straight man. We can see it clearly when Cheol Jong want to kiss his queen before the pregnancy announcement, his soul is still there at that moment, the mind was sobered yet still willing to close the eyes. It was a clear sign of accepting Cheol Jong feeling through the body language even though Cheol Jong is a man. 

 

And based on the preview, Bong Hwan has to endure the "pregnancy" phase with all the craving and also the rules for food, drink and posture as for pregnant woman.

 

Then they want us to just accept that Bong Hwan's soul had to return back to his body while So Yong soul's take over her body back and get to lives happily together with Cheol Jong and the royal baby at the end:huh:

How the heck it is a happy ending when it will be Kim So Yong alone reaping everything with Cheol Jong at the end while they also come from Jang Bong Hwan contributions?:expressionless:

 

3 hours ago, aisling said:

Take this spoiler with a grain of salt, I don’t know how legit it is!

If this is true, then how about Hwa Jin? He loved Hwa Jin but also fell in love at the first sight with So Yong??! 

 

So, to conclude Cheol Jong's love life based on the drama and spoiler of the side story:

  • He fell in love for So Yong because she saved him in their childhood.
  • He mistaken Hwa Jin as his savior when they were still children so he fell in love with her and when he met her again in Hanyang he truly love her until he was willing to share about his secret ambitions with her.
  • He doesn't recognizes So Yong as his savior in their childhood but when they met again after they grown up he developed crush at her at the first sight.
  • He slowly become wary of So Yong and act cold towards her because she is from Kim's clan.
  • After So Yong's body was possessed and she become So Bong, Cheol Jong slowly fell in love with her again and fell out of love with Hwa Jin.

Seriously, what are you thinking screenwriter?:huh:

d&d no GIF by Hyper RPG

 

confused steve harvey GIF

 

topher grace television GIF

 

I understand if Cheol Jong still has concubines until the end even he will only stick to his queen because no matter how romantic he is to his queen, he is still a king in the Joseon time.

 

I also can understand why he become prejudiced towards So Yong at the beginning before he experienced marriage life with So Bong and why he slowly fell out of love with Hwa Jin. 

 

It is unfair to So Yong but just like she doesn't deserve to be treated that way, he's also doesn't deserve to watch his father died in front of him, treated like a crap from the Kim's clan even though he is a king and then was expected to be happy while he was forced to marry a woman from the Kim's clan just because that woman loves him.

 

But if the post of the spoiler for the side story is true, with how confusing all of this "he fell in love with her at the first sight" with both Hwa Jin and So Yong, to be honest to me it only make Cheol Jong look like a man that is so fickle in love. 

 

Btw, what's up with the obsession with either childhood lover/love at first sight in Korean romance dramas LOL

 

Thankfully Cheol Jong's character was acted by a talented actor like Kim Jung Hyun who is charismatic and has sizzling chemistry with a talented actress like Shin Hye Sun, if not I don't know how to root for his love life ahahaha

 

To ease my Cheol Jong and So Yong shipper feeling, I'm just gonna swooning with how gorgeous Kim Jung Hyun and Shin Hye Sun are as a couple in this drama.

Spoiler

credit to the owner

 

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I think the show is headed for an ending in which the soul of SY and BH is the same.
BH only started to love CJ when SY's memories and emotions surfaced ... Before that, he really rejected any approach to CJ.
It is as if everything is mixed. There is the awareness of BH, but emotions are predominantly SY. SY's memories and emotions appeared not only in relation to CJ, but also in relation to her father, BI and other characters.
I always remember that scene in which BH is having an identity crisis and the doctor tells him that the confusion he is feeling will go away when he accepts who he is. And who is BH? For me, he is the reincarnation of SY.
I think that even the question of recording this spin-off about how CJ and SY met and that he probably fell in love with her at first sight reinforces the idea that it is the same soul. What would be the point of putting them to be 2 souls, spending the entire program showing the approach of CJ and SY while BH consciousness was inside it and then recording a spin-off showing how CJ was already in love with SY since the start? If there were 2 souls, CJ would have fallen in love with 2 different people. It seems to me that the show spent all the time trying to develop that CJ and SY are destined loves.
An ending that would make people happy would be like that of Moon Lovers: Scarlat Heart Ryeo, in which ... (spoiler ...) the protagonist lived for a period of time in the past and when she died she returned to the present. However, I do not know if they will follow a similar path, because in that episode when BH returned to the present they said that time had passed equally in both Josen and Korea (they had spent a week in both places).
So far, I am really happy with the development that the writers have presented to us. So, I am giving a vote of confidence that they will present us with a satisfactory ending. I hope the writers don't let us down ...

Edited by Mila
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  • larus changed the title to [Drama 2020/2021] Queen Cheorin/Mr. Queen, 철인왕후

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