[Drama 2020/2021] Queen Cheorin/Mr. Queen, 철인왕후

[Twinklebellestar2018]

37 minutes ago, cenching said:

I don't hate SY, I feel nothing for her actually but I can understand where those hates came from.

 

She took her own life (no excuses) which is a great sin in majority of cultures and religions in this world especially in oriental cultures. In Korean culture those took their own life will be punish (remember Goblin drama?), in Chinese culture their souls won't be accepted in both heaven and hell. In majority of religions (as far as I know), also will be punish. BUT after the great deadly sin, instead of got punish she was mightily rewarded and the person who did all the heavy lifting was brushes off. Of course SY receives all of the hates....

 

Some can say that SY was there all along and the feeling for CJ is totally hers because BH is a straighter but if SY retains most of BH's manly traits after he left, why BH can't retains SY's womanly feeling for CJ after he is in his own body??? Shouldn't we use the same formula when we want to solve the same tricky Qs instead of using double standards?? Don't tell me all about hormones, hormones and genital don't dictate love and care.

 

 

 

 

I think SY was like BH in some traits like cursing etc.  She did stop cooking already as was shown in last EP.  I thought we were supposed to see SY cook for King as part of the process of choosing his Sunjeong but that didn't show so I'm not sure.

 

Why did BH go to SY? 

 

SY didn't get punished yet, she's still alive she was saved and for that she is thankful and thankful as well to BI because he always "found" her hiding. In the end, she somehow accepted her fate and got love from the man who loves her  after BH makes him see that SY is a loveable person as well and is just as much as a victim of the circumstance as himself. 

[kwayteow_mama]

@Sandy Prater I could be wrong but GPG is a web drama which was why it could be more liberal in its portrayal. There were alternate endings made, not sure if it was made to appease unhappy viewers. In any case, it seems challenging for this sort of story to have an ending that pleases everyone.. especially also since this story features historical figures. I love this revisionist what-if version of a historical puppet king but it didn't sit down well with historical pundits or nationalists.. 

[cenching]

32 minutes ago, Twinklebellestar2018 said:

I think SY was like BH in some traits like cursing etc.  She did stop cooking already as was shown in last EP.  I thought we were supposed to see SY cook for King as part of the process of choosing his Sunjeong but that didn't show so I'm not sure.

 

Why did BH go to SY? 

 

SY didn't get punished yet, she's still alive she was saved and for that she is thankful and thankful as well to BI because he always "found" her hiding. In the end, she somehow accepted her fate and got love from the man who loves her  after BH makes him see that SY is a loveable person as well and is just as much as a victim of the circumstance as himself. 

 

Well, the drama portrayed SY as a proper noble lady of Joseon who was bred to be a Queen. During her childhood, she kept study study and study. Maybe she is bit tomboy and strong minded since her family is swimming in money but cursing, lifted her skirt up high while walking....I don't think so. Even myself who was not bred for a Queen will got chili in my mouth if I cursed when I was young....haha

 

Based upon the drama SY was given 2 opportunities to takes back own body. First, when BH jumped into the lake and in the verge of death but saved by CJ (remember SB's inner monologue) and second, when BH went back briefly to his own body but she didn't grab any of the opportunities.  It's meant either she has lost her will to live or she is too coward to face the reality and takes a free rides on BH instead. At the end she comes out and accepted her fate AFTER BH cleared the coast for her and handed CJ on the silver platter.

 

 

[Twinklebellestar2018]

7 minutes ago, cenching said:

 

Well, the drama portrayed SY as a proper noble lady of Joseon who was bred to be a Queen. During her childhood, she kept study study and study. Maybe she is bit tomboy and strong minded since her family is swimming in money but cursing, lifted her skirt up high while walking....I don't think so. Even myself who was not bred for a Queen will got chili in my mouth if I cursed when I was young....haha

 

Based upon the drama SY was given 2 opportunities to takes back own body. First, when BH jumped into the lake and in the verge of death but saved by CJ (remember SB's inner monologue) and second, when BH went back briefly to his own body but she didn't grab any of the opportunities.  It's meant either she has lost her will to live or she is too coward to face the reality and takes a free rides on BH instead. At the end she comes out and accepted her fate AFTER BH cleared the coast for her and handed CJ on the silver platter.

 

 

But it was fate now working on them I guess.  It wasn't SY claiming her body back when BH was transported back to his time.  "Is he gone?" was all she said and she did what she had to do next, even trying to put the scarf back to the king.

[cenching]

1 minute ago, Twinklebellestar2018 said:

But it was fate now working on them I guess.  It wasn't SY claiming her body back when BH was transported back to his time.  "Is he gone?" was all she said and she did what she had to do next, even trying to put the scarf back to the king.

 

That's why she got all of the hates because she sinned, she got free rides and got rewarded.....

[Miho29]

2 minutes ago, N. S. said:

Yes, I understand Soyeon has a good nature, is nice. But just being nice person doesn't guarantee us love. For example, I like Soyeon good nature, but she is not the one I fell in love with during Mr. Queen. She is not the one who made me laugh for evenings.

 

Soyeon loves the King. But whom the King loves? Who made him let go of his 2-years love to Hwajin?

My own quote"

 Brave, funny, loud, eccentric, good cook, full of fresh ideas, not embarassed, bold, easy and informal with people (like she became best friends with the maids, main chef), who can make each day funny - all the traits that made King curious and intrigued with the "new Queen" "

 

In the end Soyeon got some BH traits, can swear etc, but she is still not "the Queen" person whom the King, the maids, main chef, everyone around grew to know during Mr. Queen series, with all good traits and flaws, uniqueness. "Sobong" was indeed unique and progressive for Chosun era, she was greatly outstanding. That's why I'm sad that Chosun lost that person. 

The series has many holes that need to be feel in order for us to understand it better. I think writers let it that way so everyone can have their own ending.
 

Ending to think that King lost the real love of his life Bong Hwan

 

or 

 

Ending to think that King finally see the real So Yong, like the ending now. 
 

The confusing part goes when King look at queen dictionary and he feels that he lose something. 
 

He also feels this when Hwan Ji left. His love is real even how deep or how swallow it is. If he said he cares, he really cares. Thats how King is. 
 

As So Yong never question King loves to Hwan Ji because she knows her place in his heart. No matter how the past or the situation now So Yong will remain true to the King even She will not be her first. it shows at the end when she said finish your fight first and she fix his clothes. She is devoted and have unconditional love for King. She knows Bong Hwan so she will not question him about King. 
 

Change is the only constant in life. There are many ifs.. and if only. But real love will understand change. This is how life goes, its your destiny no matter what your past or future. 
 

We don’t see it because its already end but we can imagine what will happen after the ending. Are they going to stay together or King will fall out of love with the Queen because she not funny anymore not Bong Hwan personality. But like as I said change is the only constant in every aspect of our life. Knowing it and finding love is best life. 
 

I love Bong Hwan as much I love So Yong they are Yin and Yang not will be complete without the other. Bong Hwan left So Yong body with a gift of (Be yourself tell them what you think) while So Yong shows to Bong Hwan not to be selfish and think about other before self. It shows when He finally agree to all in to King. His willingness to help the King not for his own agenda.

 

In future we don’t know maybe we got other drama with King will not lost that person instead they are the end game 

[Sandy Prater]

1 hour ago, kwayteow_mama said:

@Sandy Prater I could be wrong but GPG is a web drama which was why it could be more liberal in its portrayal. There were alternate endings made, not sure if it was made to appease unhappy viewers. In any case, it seems challenging for this sort of story to have an ending that pleases everyone.. especially also since this story features historical figures. I love this revisionist what-if version of a historical puppet king but it didn't sit down well with historical pundits or nationalists.. 

Even if it was a web-drama, we're talking about a country that censors internet content to the degree that they have banned the site Archive of Our Own due to fan-instigated controversy. You're right in that no ending could please anyone, but I think a lot of people are mad because it seemed like a misdirection or, at the very least, the ending did not align with the projected intent of the rest of the episodes. I see a lot of people making comparisons to the GOT finale as well. Fans can usually put up with endings which don't turn out the way they might like but it's a harder pill to swallow to see a narrative twist like this. 

 

Speaking of the historical aspect...did you catch that in the book Bong H was reading, it still listed CJ's reign lasting until his death at 32? I think there's a good chance it might have been that they just pasted the drama portrait into a real book, but I can't read Korean so couldn't decipher what was written to see if the page was created by the production and they just kept to his natural lifetime or if the information there was a summary of the real CJ. Someone else mentioned their child dying at 6 months as well...but again, I don't  know if they got it from that page or were just relating real historical facts. The baby dying made me really sad since I viewed it as SB/CJ's child. Either way, with CJ's death date being visible in the drama, it pretty much makes it canon. Perhaps it's for the best that Bong went back as if he was ever given a choice to stay and did, it would have been for CJ and his child, the absence of which might have made him regret it.

 

 

1. Can HB and SY be reincarnations of each other? Would that even be possible considering that some are saying that both souls occupied the same body? If it's the same soul, wouldn't only the memories be shared? I'm not sure how reincarnation works, so I'm a bit confused on this point. If this is the case, it makes the ending more coherent to me as to why the king so easily transferred his affections and without questioning the changes...like it still IS his queen. Makes me hate SY less as well because having her credited for the deeds of a reincarnated version of herself sits better with me than a completely different person.

2. I think BI and HWJ's storylines are more than just plot devices but are used to prep audiences for the finale. BI's dying statement was that he knew SY better than anyone yet questioned why he couldn't tell the difference between her and SB. Also, when realizing HWJ lied, CJ stated that perhaps it is better to stick with the lie than to reveal a truth no one wants to know. I can't help but feel these are relevant and have a deeper meaning. Looking at how CJ is completely ignoring the fact that the queen has changed so drastically, I wonder if this theme of self-constructed obliviousness in order to maintain happiness is what is going on. 

3. Any thoughts on whether or not there could possibly be a Mr. Queen Season 2? I think not as there was a sense of finality about it (even though they left the door wide open with several plot elements such as the unresolved love triangle between Kwan/Hong/Yeon, the king discovering the change in the queen, the book showing that CJ dies at an early age, and none of the main bad guys being killed). Saw a translated IG live with Kim Jung Hyun where a fan asked him that question and his answer was that it wasn't his call to make...which had me giddy at even the chance that he'd be up for it if they offered. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Sandy Prater

[N. S.]

26 minutes ago, sean294251 said:

The series has many holes that need to be feel in order for us to understand it better. I think writers let it that way so everyone can have their own ending.
 

Ending to think that King lost the real love of his life Bong Hwan

 

or 

 

Ending to think that King finally see the real So Yong, like the ending now. 
 

The confusing part goes when King look at queen dictionary and he feels that he lose something. 
 

He also feels this when Hwan Ji left. His love is real even how deep or how swallow it is. If he said he cares, he really cares. Thats how King is. 
 

As So Yong never question King loves to Hwan Ji because she knows her place in his heart. No matter how the past or the situation now So Yong will remain true to the King even She will not be her first. it shows at the end when she said finish your fight first and she fix his clothes. She is devoted and have unconditional love for King. She knows Bong Hwan so she will not question him about King. 
 

Change is the only constant in life. There are many ifs.. and if only. But real love will understand change. This is how life goes, its your destiny no matter what your past or future. 
 

We don’t see it because its already end but we can imagine what will happen after the ending. Are they going to stay together or King will fall out of love with the Queen because she not funny anymore not Bong Hwan personality. But like as I said change is the only constant in every aspect of our life. Knowing it and finding love is best life. 
 

I love Bong Hwan as much I love So Yong they are Yin and Yang not will be complete without the other. Bong Hwan left So Yong body with a gift of (Be yourself tell them what you think) while So Yong shows to Bong Hwan not to be selfish and think about other before self. It shows when He finally agree to all in to King. His willingness to help the King not for his own agenda.

 

In future we don’t know maybe we got other drama with King will not lost that person instead they are the end game 

Why do you think "So Yong shows to Bong Hwan not to be selfish and think about other before self"?

 

I mean Soyeon is not saint. We know she tortured her maids before for whatever reason, even King told about it in the first episodes "oh, looks like her health is fine since she is torturing maids again". So Soyeon can also be selfish.

Do you believe BH can't have personal growth himself? I mean I watched people grow to be less selfish as they went through struggles. As they grew up. I watched movies with character growth.

Why do you think it's Soyeon making that BH changed in the end of the story after suffering all those wins and failures, pain and difficulties. Personally I think BH could grow up as a person by himself considering how much he went through, that he can have personal growth all by thanks to himself.

Edited February 19, 2021 by N. S.

[Sandy Prater]

4 hours ago, Rae said:

I really think Netflix passed on Mr.  Queen.  Vincenzo will air on Netflix.  

I read somewhere that it was Tvn who made that call. I honestly can't remember where I stumbled upon it because I've visited like a thousand sites since this drama ended (mostly to rant and cry about the ending, which I absolutely loathed). The person who commented stated that Tvn wanted to go at it solo, perhaps because the drama wasn't super expensive, and they thought they would do okay without Netflix. Take that with a grain of salt though, because nothing is certain when it comes to internet hearsay.

13 minutes ago, N. S. said:

Why do you think "So Yong shows to Bong Hwan not to be selfish and think about other before self"?

 

I mean Soyeon is not saint. We know she tortured her maids before for whatever reason, even King told about it in the first episodes "oh, looks like her health is fine since she is torturing maids again". So Soyeon can also be selfish.

Do you believe BH can't have personal growth himself? I mean I watched people grow to be less selfish as they went through struggles. As they grew up. I watched movies with character growth.

Why do you think it's Soyeon making that BH changed in the end of the story after suffering all those wins and failures, pain and difficulties. Personally I think BH could grow up as a person by himself considering how much he went through, that he can have personal growth all by thanks to himself.

Oh, yeah. I've read elsewhere people attributing BH's personal growth to SY imparting him her higher moral code...which I find painful to even think about. I mean, let's look at what BH did: saved the king's life, saved his girlfriend's life, saved his life again, saved his banquet, saved the little girl, stole the royal seal to save CJ again, taught him about other forms of government so he could make positive changes...and what's the end result?  Every. Single. Ignored. No credit given. None. Slate wiped. Or, worse, given off-screen to SY who played hide and seek the entire time. And now the fact that he's a better person because of all he went through and his hard earned personal growth is also to be given to SY? Sheesh. And people wonder why she's not a beloved character. LoL

[kwayteow_mama]

41 minutes ago, Sandy Prater said:

Even if it was a web-drama, we're talking about a country that censors internet content to the degree that they have banned the site Archive of Our Own due to fan-instigated controversy. You're right in that no ending could please anyone, but I think a lot of people are mad because it seemed like a misdirection or, at the very least, the ending did not align with the projected intent of the rest of the episodes. I see a lot of people making comparisons to the GOT finale as well. Fans can usually put up with endings which don't turn out the way they might like but it's a harder pill to swallow to see a narrative twist like this. 

 

Speaking of the historical aspect...did you catch that in the book Bong H was reading, it still listed CJ's reign lasting until his death at 32? I think there's a good chance it might have been that they just pasted the drama portrait into a real book, but I can't read Korean so couldn't decipher what was written to see if the page was created by the production and they just kept to his natural lifetime or if the information there was a summary of the real CJ. Someone else mentioned their child dying at 6 months as well...but again, I don't  know if they got it from that page or were just relating real historical facts. The baby dying made me really sad since I viewed it as SB/CJ's child. Either way, with CJ's death date being visible in the drama, it pretty much makes it canon. Perhaps it's for the best that Bong went back as if he was ever given a choice to stay and did, it would have been for CJ and his child, the absence of which might have made him regret it.

 

 

1. Can HB and SY be reincarnations of each other? Would that even be possible considering that some are saying that both souls occupied the same body? If it's the same soul, wouldn't only the memories be shared? I'm not sure how reincarnation works, so I'm a bit confused on this point. If this is the case, it makes the ending more coherent to me as to why the king so easily transferred his affections and without questioning the changes...like it still IS his queen. Makes me hate SY less as well because having her credited for the deeds of a reincarnated version of herself sits better with me than a completely different person.

2. I think BI and HWJ's storylines are more than just plot devices but are used to prep audiences for the finale. BI's dying statement was that he knew SY better than anyone yet questioned why he couldn't tell the difference between her and SB. Also, when realizing HWJ lied, CJ stated that perhaps it is better to stick with the lie than to reveal a truth no one wants to know. I can't help but feel these are relevant and have a deeper meaning. Looking at how CJ is completely ignoring the fact that the queen has changed so drastically, I wonder if this theme of self-constructed obliviousness in order to maintain happiness is what is going on. 

3. Any thoughts on whether or not there could possibly be a Mr. Queen Season 2? I think not as there was a sense of finality about it (even though they left the door wide open with several plot elements such as the unresolved love triangle between Kwan/Hong/Yeon, the king discovering the change in the queen, the book showing that CJ dies at an early age, and none of the main bad guys being killed). Saw a translated IG live with Kim Jung Hyun where a fan asked him that question and his answer was that it wasn't his call to make...which had me giddy at even the chance that he'd be up for it if they offered. 

 

Yeah let's see the narrative twist that put people off:

 

1. We were led to believe SY is gone for sure and then the end beyond imagination that the production team has given us was peekaboo here i am right at the end. Poor BI served as plot device to tell us that SY is there just because SB has her memories and a uneffective one..

 

2. The disconnect between villainess mode KSY before she jumps into the lake and then the progressive, magnanimous version after she got her body back at the end. Though one might argue that she has changed for the better after going through BH's experiences and memories but then again we didn't really know she was there until we were told so right at the end haha..

 

3. The disdain that why a person who have chosen to give up rather than to fight get to enjoy the fruits of labor of someone else with the ending painting her in a protagonist light. This might give a problematic message that suicide may eventually bring about a good end.

 

3. back to the future BH doesn't look like the BH who has gone through all that romancing with the king.. it's as if all that long awaited sober SB king kiss scene at the rebellion part didn't happen. BH suddenly became king's buddy from the future. 

 

4. king supposed to know sobong best but he wasn't as taken aback at the change of personality as what we would have expect. didn't he ask sobong to be his rough usual self when he tried to be the perfect queen.. or the part when he said he'll never confuse SB/SY for someone else ring so hollow now..

 

Or in other words..

 

Ep 1-19: SY gone. SB and King main couple

Ep 20: SY and King main couple. BH and King was actually Joseon saviour buddies.. 

 

If what you say is true about the drama alignment to CJ's early death, then I would also be one of those who rather not see BH stranded in Joseon seeing his king and child die regardless of how much narrative value there is. Haha.. 

 

Even if there's no season 2, I have to thank this drama for giving me so much inspiration to write my own season 2 to get over the ending.

[aren_117]

2 hours ago, sean294251 said:

The series has many holes that need to be feel in order for us to understand it better. I think writers let it that way so everyone can have their own ending.

i love this comment. 

 

 

By the way, is it only me who saw SoBong as So Yong + Bong Hwan after episode 7? I always see them as one soul after that episode thats why I was not that hurt at the ending.

 

[cenching]

6 minutes ago, aren_117 said:

 

By the way, is it only me who saw SoBong as So Yong + Bong Hwan after episode 7? I always see them as one soul after that episode thats why I was not that hurt at the ending.

 

 

I always see them as a merger of 2 souls in one body with equal partnership and the same exact reason why the ending is infuriating. Because they made SY as a parasite riding on BH and BH is nothing but an instrument.

[aisling]

If the author of Soompi article who’s supposed to write in a manner to encourage people to watch Viki is outright unhappy with the way they handled Bong Hwan’s ending, then there’s a serious issue with that ending.

 

 

 

I’m not sure if I want Netflix to pick Mr Queen. It’d mean more exposure for my beloved SHS and KJH and more people would come to know their explosive talents.

 

On the other hand the Western audience is quite different from the Asian ones. They’re more progressive about LGTB+ theme. I’m seriously afraid Mr Queen would get more hate than love because of the ending.

 

Western fans reacted negatively to queerbaiting in shows like Supernatural and Sherlock where two male leads just looked at each other fondly without anything sexual going on. How would they react if Bong Hwan went through sexual crisis to accept his attraction and feelings for Cheoljong, only to be shoved back in the future like nothing romantic ever happened.

 

In case of someone doesn’t know what queerbaiting is:

 

“Queerbaiting is a term which refers to authors, writers, or showrunners (etc) attempting to attract an LGBT audience by hinting at same-sex relationships between characters, though they’re never actually consummated…

 

By adding homoerotic subtext or erotic tension between two characters, usually leads, LGBTQ audiences are enticed to tune in, unaware that there was never an intention to elevate the subtext to an actual relationship.

 

Queer-baiting is essentially a marketing ploy that celebrities, TV and film writers and authors use to appeal to an LGBTQ+ audience. 

 

While appealing to LGBTQ+ fans, queer-baiting also avoids alienating a main audience by never fully embracing a queer sexuality.”

 

But in Mr Queen they actually consummated their relationship, that makes it even worse.

 

[cenching]

 

@aisling
 Netflix is airing The Yin Yang Master: Dream of Eternity despite the plagiarism issue (pulled out from every single cinema in China). IF Netflix didn’t pick up Mr Queen then....

 

[Sandy Prater]

4 hours ago, aisling said:

If the author of Soompi article who’s supposed to write in a manner to encourage people to watch Viki is outright unhappy with the way they handled Bong Hwan’s ending, then there’s a serious issue with that ending.

 

I’m not sure if I want Netflix to pick Mr Queen. It’d mean more exposure for my beloved SHS and KJH and more people would come to know their explosive talents.

 

On the other hand the Western audience is quite different from the Asian ones. They’re more progressive about LGTB+ theme. I’m seriously afraid Mr Queen would get more hate than love because of the ending.

 

Western fans reacted negatively to queerbaiting in shows like Supernatural and Sherlock where two male leads just looked at each other fondly without doing anything sexual going on. How would they react if Bong Hwan went through sexual crisis to accept his attraction and feelings for Cheoljong, only to be shoved back in the future like nothing romantic ever happened.

 

In case of someone doesn’t know what queerbaiting is:

 

“Queerbaiting is a term which refers to authors, writers, or showrunners (etc) attempting to attract an LGBT audience by hinting at same-sex relationships between characters, though they’re never actually consummated…

 

By adding homoerotic subtext or erotic tension between two characters, usually leads, LGBTQ audiences are enticed to tune in, unaware that there was never an intention to elevate the subtext to an actual relationship.

 

Queer-baiting is essentially a marketing ploy that celebrities, TV and film writers and authors use to appeal to an LGBTQ+ audience. 

 

While appealing to LGBTQ+ fans, queer-baiting also avoids alienating a main audience by never fully embracing a queer sexuality.”

 

But in Mr Queen they actually consummated their relationship, that makes it even worse.

So glad you posted this. Whenever I looked for reviews, I always came across ones that praised the ending or just lightly stated that they wondered if the king would love the queen the same. Started to think I was in the minority with my opinion until I began reading comments. Oh, and it's not just Westerners who are unhappy. I have come across some Korean reviews on Youtube that echoed the same sentiment...using google translator to read the comments was painstaking but rewarding. LOL

Edited February 19, 2021 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks!

[Twinklebellestar2018]

I hope Netflix does get it....  

I recommended it to others already and they're hooked.  

[Draviu]

 

[cenching]

 

 

Apparently there are 2 different cuts of the kissing scene in the spin off. The first video, SB went first she was the one kissed CJ while the second vid is vice versa.

 

Which one do you like, folks???

[meix2]

13 hours ago, Sandy Prater said:

 

I agree with pretty much everything here. I think the writers just dropped the ball. They had so much fun with the relationship with SB and CJ that they didn't realize or didn't care that many fans would then be upset at the idea that the SB character would be replaced by SY and life just goes on. It's that lack of closure that kills me. Some times that could have been done instead:

 

1. The writers could have handled the transition better by fleshing out the SY character and having her play a more vital role so that we didn't feel she was undeserved or a thief like HwaJinJo. 
2. They could have made it made more clear that SY and BH were parallel lives/reincarnations of each other (though that still stings a little as reincarnations or not, it was the combination of both her body and his soul that made the person the king loved). Really felt the writers deliberately made it seem like SY was gone and dead. Even in his arguments with her, SB continually referred to SY's influence as the influence of the body...not a foreign concept seeing as how the mind is the repository of thoughts and feelings and when he took over her body, he was functioning with her organs and all. Wouldn't be the first drama which explored the idea that the body holds residual feelings from it previous owner.
3. They could have had Cheoljong acknowledge his loss and admit that he was settling and show his grief at losing something precious to him. More than just a puzzled look while looking at a book. I show more concern when I misplace my car keys than what I got from him in that scene. That would feed into the idea of the King's sacrifice (happiness in exchange for being a good ruler) and all like in Scarlet Heart Ryeo and Shine or Go Crazy. I mean, dang...do you know how many times SB saved his bacon and helped make his dream a realization? To then just marginalize her like that...so mad. 
4. Or...and this would have been the ultimate show of courage: have SB stay in Joseon. Have him go back to the future and wrap up his storyline. I imagine him fighting off Han who has come back to finish him off and having the police catch Han in the act and thereby clear BH's name but in that struggle being on the cusp of death and choosing (the choice is an important part here) to return to SY's body which has been in a catatonic state just like when he left that first time. Speaking of which, there's another false bit the writers threw at us. SY didn't just pop back up the first time the Queen returned to her body, again perpetuating the idea that she was dead and gone. 
 

I totally agree with everthing here.

Now that the working week is coming to an end, and work related matters no longer overwhelm my mind... I have time to ponder and rant on the ending. I understand that broadly speaking, there are two camps, and I am firmly concreted to the one that thinks the ending is awful.

 

After spending over 2 months really invested in the series, I seriously felt shafted of a coherent ending! I had hoped for a SB and CJ outcome because I was sure that was where it was heading. There were small hints throughout the series that BH and SY were becoming blended- e.g. the changing internal voice, the blending of memories and skills, the slip-of-the-tongue self referencing... Am I thinking too much into this. Maybe. But that was what a simple drama watching ahjumma like me thought it was moving towards. And to be honest, if this was the case- there shouldn't even be any concerns with the LGBT theme because SB had the lived experience of BOTH genders.

 

So, for those arguing that the ending was good... imagine my horror when 19.5 hours into a 20 hours series, the whole thing went insane. Suddenly SY was back after zero, I repeat ZERO, indication that she was still there. BH awoke in his future without being affected much re. his time in Joseon. Not only did he jump out of bed after months in a vegetative state, he hardly showed grief after leaving CJ in the past. Yes, he was pleased that CJ survived and became a great king- however, this just a couple of episodes after endless crying because SB missed him when he was out of the palace. And CJ, poor CJ doesn't know what hit him... he fell in love with SB but got SY instead and never got to know why the personality change. And those were just the main points because to go through all the loose ends, I will be here till tomorrow.

 

I'm upset because I feel cheated. I would call it a great ending if SY's presence in SB was shown, perhaps interacting with BH or CJ. I would even buy it, if they did a reveal of scenes where BH had blacked out/ unaware and SY took over. I would have happily bought internal dialogue between BH and SY in the last two episodes to establish she's there. But alas, NO... because that would make too much sense. Similarly, I would have called it a great ending if CJ knew about losing SB/BH and felt grief/ longing even though he was happy with SY. But NO, that didn't happen either. What we got was an incoherent/ half a** ending that made no narrative sense- it just felt like a big slap in the face to a spectacularly good 19 episodes!

 

There were so, so many different ways they could have concluded this to satisfy everybody but they chose the worse way- they wasted valuable time to tell/ progress the story with excessive angst and politics in the last few episode. Plus, if they had time and money to do the special, I wish they would have used it to complete the story instead of fan service, which seems pointless and poorly thought out. (E.g. The episode with SB and her male friends had both Byeong-In and Hwan, but when Hwan found out about SB being the queen, Byeong-In had already died.)

 

Having been through the trauma of Ghostess and MLSHR, I thought I will be immune to this but, I guess not. Thankyou for letting me air my grievances and get it off my chest- I'm hopeful I can return to functioning normally soon and may even try live watching another Kdrama in the future!

Edited February 19, 2021 by meix2

[aisling]

51 minutes ago, meix2 said:

I totally agree with everthing here.

Now that the working week is coming to an end, and work related matters no longer overwhelm my mind... I have time to ponder and rant on the ending. I understand that broadly speaking, there are two camps, and I am firmly concreted to the one that thinks the ending is awful.

 

After spending over 2 months really invested in the series, I seriously felt shafted of a coherent ending! I had hoped for a SB and CJ outcome because I was sure that was where it was heading. There were small hints throughout the series that BH and SY were becoming blended- e.g. the changing internal voice, the blending of memories and skills, the slip-of-the-tongue self referencing... Am I thinking too much into this. Maybe. But that was what a simple drama watching ahjumma like me thought it was moving towards. And to be honest, if this was the case- there shouldn't even be any concerns with LGBT theme because SB had the lived expeirnce of BOTH genders.

 

So, for those arguing that the ending was good... imagine my horror when 19.5 hours into a 20 hours series, the whole thing went insane. Suddenly SY was back after zero, I repeat ZERO, indication that she was still there. BH awoke in his future without being affected much re. his time in Joseon. Not only did he jump out of bed after months in a vegetative state, he hardly showed grief after leaving CJ in the past. Yes, he was pleased that CJ survived and became a great king- however, this just a couple of episodes after endless crying because SB missed him when he was out of the palace. HeAnd CJ, poor CJ doesn't know what hit him... he fell in love with SB but got SY instead and nevergot to know why the personality change. And those were just the main points becuse to go through all the loose ends, I will be here till tomorrow.

 

I'm upset because I feel cheated. I would call it a great ending if SY's presence in SB was shown, perhaps interacting with BH or CJ. I would even buy it, if they did a reveal of scenes where BH had blacked out/ unaware and SY took over. I would have happily bought internal dialogue between BH and SY in the last two episodes to establish she's there. But alas, NO... because that would make too much sense. Similarly, I would have called it a great ending if CJ knew about losing SB/BH and felt grief/ longing even though he was happy with SY. But NO, that didn't happen either. What we got was an incoherent/ half a** ending that made no narrative sense- it just felt like a big slap in the face to a spectacularly good 19 episodes!

 

There were so, so many different ways they could have concluded this to satisfy everybody but they chose the worse way- they wasted valuable time to tell/ progress the story with excessive angst and politics in the last few episode. Plus, if they had time and money to do the special, I wish they would have used it to complete the story instead of fan service, which seems pointless and poorly thought out. (E.g. The episode with SB and her male friends had both Byeong-In and Hwan, but when Hwan found out about SB being the queen, Byeong-In had already died.)

 

Having been through the trauma of Ghostess and MLSHR, I thought I will be immune to this but, I guess not. Thankyou for letting me air my grievances and get it off my chest- I'm hopeful I can return to functioning normally soon and may even try live watching another Kdrama in the future!

The amount of people who were just silent lurkers or created account just to vent their dissatisfaction is telling. 
 

I think the most frustrating thing is that those previous 19 episodes were just SO GOOD. If the drama was terrible from the beginning, we would just throw it away and move on.
 

But the fact that they gave us the most daring and hilarious drama with the greatest love story in k-drama and then punched us in the face... that really hurt.

I still can’t decide if they chickened out and changed their minds halfway or they planned this nonsense ending from the start. 
 

The saddest thing is they didn’t even make Bong Hwan’s wish come true. 

 

According to the history book Bong Hwan was reading, Cheoljong still died at 32 like in the original timeline.