[Drama 2021] Mouse, 마우스

[nrllee]

23 minutes ago, 1ouise said:

Another brain surgery.  The surgeon looks like HH? to me (a lefty).

I thought HH was killed by BR?  Sorry I haven’t watched but I thought that was what happened?

27 minutes ago, airgelaal said:

Why? There is no connection. 

Well if we go by the theory that the gene is passed through the father and that all psychopaths have this gene?  Which is why they want to kill everyone with the gene?  So the only way Det Shin’s daughter is a serial killer is that she got the gene from her father (Det Shin)?  Unless it’s the mother who had the gene.  But if that’s the argument that the writer is presenting us, that the gene is passed down through the father, then President Shin who has the gene is the Top level Predator.  He passed it down to Det Shin (who I gather is like YH because he didn’t kill anyone...or did he?? )...and Det Shin passed it down to his daughter.  So President Shin was Oz in the end.  He orchestrated everything.  Pretending to be nice and kind.  But he was the puppet master.  Killing Lady Politician in the end?  That’s my wild theory.  

[bedifferent]

@nrllee the epilogue shows another surgeon performing brain surgery with HH’s video playing on the background, instructional for him we suspect.

 

Wow, the alternative ending, the official ending... why so negative and macabre.  I have lost track of how many deaths and killers we have seen.  I don’t know what to say, why so dark of an outlook on humanity from a writer.

 

2 hours ago, nrllee said:

 

So I guess we were also right in suspecting President Shin (Wizard of Oz?) - Lady Politician was taken out by him in the end?  She was just the Wicked Witch of the West.  He was the one who ordered the kill on her after she came out?  Don’t know.  I didn’t watch.  Just trying to make sense of spoilers.

 

 

 

Yeah that was my impression when I saw him revived the dead abortion bill but I was not sure if he always shared the same Utopia opinion as Sec Choi or changed after his son’s death.   The government shows the public that Bareum succeeded in using the image of Nation Son to cover for his true killer self.  They argued that we can’t trust anyone so society should just abort all babies with the gene. The public bought the argument and the bill passed.
 

This is why the bill passing was confusing and controversial for many of us.

[nrllee]

Thanks @bedifferent

 

Also did we ever get told who this girl is?  Was she HJ?

 

And what happened to explain JiEun’s neck cut which landed her in hospital?  Everyone thought YH tried to kill her?  

[bedifferent]

@nrllee mystery girl was not ID in the finale, I have not watched the last special.

 

JiEun’s neck cut didn’t get any further explanation.  I assume she never explained the background story to anyone, YoHan became more withdrawn after that incident.

[pixiebelle]

1 hour ago, nrllee said:

Thanks @bedifferent

 

Also did we ever get told who this girl is?  Was she HJ?

 

And what happened to explain JiEun’s neck cut which landed her in hospital?  Everyone thought YH tried to kill her?  

Ep 20, no reveal of girl.

JiEun's neck cut : revealed in Ep20. YH confronted her regarding her knowledge of BR being the serial killer. YH said he will go confront BR. JiEun tried to stop him because she is concerned BR will kill YH. In her bid to stop YH, JiEun picked up a pair of scissor and pointed it at her own neck. YH rushed over to her to stop her from hurting herself. In the struggle, JiEun was injured and YH left when a lady visitor came into the room.

YH was innocent. He has the psychopath gene but he demonstrated emotions. During live TV show, HJ showed a CCTV clip which captured YH alone and sobbing. According to Daniel, psychopaths reveal their true self when they are alone so it (kind of) proved YH was truly not a psychopath...he was the 1% with predator gene + emotions = genius.

Edited May 21, 2021 by ferily
Please don't quote images. Thanks!

[cherriesblue]

Does anyone know where we could watch the special episode after episode 20?

[1ouise]

3 hours ago, nrllee said:

I thought HH was killed by BR?  Sorry I haven’t watched but I thought that was what happened?

 

Headhunter is dead.  So the surgery could have happened earlier, or it isn't him performing the surgery.

 

 

2 hours ago, pixiebelle said:

Psychopaths reveal their true self when they are alone so it (kind of) proved YH was truly not a psychopath...he was the 1% with predator gene + emotions = genius.

 

Yo-han's IQ was 164 and Ba-reum's IQ was 160, so they are both geniuses.  I kept wondering what they were going to conclude about this.  Finally, Choi Young-shin told BR he was a genius AND a psychopath.

 

3 hours ago, nrllee said:

President Shin who has the gene is the Top level Predator.  He passed it down to Det Shin (who I gather is like YH because he didn’t kill anyone...or did he?? )...and Det Shin passed it down to his daughter.  So President Shin was Oz in the end.  He orchestrated everything.  Pretending to be nice and kind.  But he was the puppet master.  Killing Lady Politician in the end?  That’s my wild theory.  

 

See ... keep working on that theory.    He definitely isn't nice if he had Choi murdered.  It could be his revenge for his son's death at the hands of OZ, or just removing her from having any more influence.

 

The killing in this show isn't limited to the designated serial killer.    Almost every single character has tried to kill or wanted to kill someone.  The problem isn't with that rare predator gene; it's with these darn drama characters who are always saying, "Do you want to die?"

 

 

 

 

[ferily]

@nrllee@pixiebelle I'm pretty sure the girl was Hong Ju? I forgot where it was in the drama but they showed it to be her.

 

@cherriesblue You can watch the special episode on Viki! (It's called Mouse: The Last) Not sure if you need Viki Pass to watch Mouse though. 

[nrllee]

@1ouise Hey I was all about Oz being a man.  Wizard of Oz?  .  And I was on the bandwagon that Det Shin was one of those with the gene and shifty from the start.   So who knows?  He could’ve murdered and we’ve just never found bodies.  And if President Shin is the top level Predator who now has “absolute power”, who knows what he would do?  As for why he would allow the Bill to go through.  Well, serial killers loathe copy cats or competition.  So in theory, as President, he could darn well ensure that it’s only his gene that gets passed down to future generations of serial killers by wiping out everyone else’s?  There can be only One.  

 

[nrllee]

For those who couldn’t watch the alternate ending last night with the extra scenes, I took screen shots of the important scenes.  
 

So we see Lady Politician (obviously in jail still brokering a deal for her pardon and release).  She reveals she knows about Det. Shin’s daughter with the psychopath gene (not sure how she could find that out?  But okay).  President Shin sent a man to kill her after her release from prison.  His wife pretty much confirmed it for us.  She thought he did it to avenge their son.  But it probably was to protect his granddaughter.  Because he turns and carries her off after his wife’s words.  Then we see a decapitated teddy (in a drawer) - which we have to assume is her (granddaughter) doing.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UFPWHBQn76yKp3VEglLWci7TijYSxACsFgWj33dLbfs/

[pixiebelle]

59 minutes ago, nrllee said:

For those who couldn’t watch the alternate ending last night with the extra scenes, I took screen shots of the important scenes.  
 

So we see Lady Politician (obviously in jail still brokering a deal for her pardon and release).  She reveals she knows about Det. Shin’s daughter with the psychopath gene (not sure how she could find that out?  But okay).  President Shin sent a man to kill her after her release from prison.  His wife pretty much confirmed it for us.  She thought he did it to avenge their son.  But it probably was to protect his granddaughter.  Because he turns and carries her off after his wife’s words.  Then we see a decapitated her teddy (in a drawer) - which we have to assume is her (granddaughter) doing.

 

 

Seems like an extension of Ep 20 ?

[ferily]

I finished watching episode 20 with subs and oh man, oh man. It has been a journey and ride for us. I definitely expected the ending and that Ba Reum would die, didn't think he would get a happy ending. Just three things I wanted to talk about:

 

What I liked about the drama:

• Yo Han name getting clear and people realizing that he was actually a nice person. In general, I really liked the way they displayed Yo Han's story after he died. Now of course I think it's sad and a shame that the drama killed him off, but I do like the way the drama handled his backstory and revealed everything. 
• I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but I actually really liked Moo Chi and his character. He was pretty consistent from beginning to end, although rash, he is a pretty smart detective and was able to figure many things out. He is a pitiful character because everyone in his whole family died by Han Seo Joon and Jung Ba Reum...
• The ending and end of Ba Reum's story. Lets be honest, he wasn't going to have a happy ending after us finding out he was the true serial killer AND the fact that Daniel witnessed the rat that Han Seo Joon did brain surgery on eventually died. I'm glad that the drama stuck to this until the end and Ba Reum ended up dying.
• The message that the writer & director was hinting at the end, that anyone , even a serial killer, can be saved by God. I won't go too deep into this because I'm sure all of us have same or different beliefs, but I feel like that's what the drama was implying at the end.

Honestly I can't think of any other things I liked about the drama so I'll move on to What I didn't like about the drama:

• The writer and director not answering many questions until the very end of the episode
• The way the drama didn't really explain things clearly. It was either a) very confusing the way they explained it or b) the drama didn't explain it at all (i.e. Baby swap... Still don't understand the logic behind that..)
• Lets just put it as another thing I didn't like, baby swap. Like I know Ji Eun said the whole point they did it is so the Nurse can kill Jae Hoon...but like ?????? That's all I got to say. Where is the logic.
• Hong Ju's story overall... I don't mind the fact that Hong Ju and Daniel were communicating and basically using Ba Reum. What I didn't like is the way they covered her childhood and not telling her family that she's alive. I know it was because of the guilt that she couldn't face them, but the way the drama had Hong Ju and her father meet just felt...unnatural? Btw did we ever get a clear explanation as to why she helped Han Seo Joon aside from her being taken captive?
• Viewers discovery about the OZ organization mid-drama (of course there has to be higher ups involved with this mess haha... It was just introduced super late and I feel like the whole story with them was rushed
• Omg I forgot one! The abortion for fetus with psychopath gene being passed! Like wow, that law was passed with the vote of the country.. I don't know how I feel about it passing...

Finally, Questions that I have:

• One thing that I'm really curious about is if Ba Reum was nurtured correctly since when he was young and the whole baby swap didn't happen, would he have turned out to not be a psychopath serial killer? And I know we had a discussion early on in the drama about nurture vs. nature. Now that I look back, I wish the drama could've touched upon this.
• Where is the logic in the baby swap? (I'm sorry, I had to mention it again)
• What will happen since the bill for aborting babies with the psychopath gene was passed?
• The person doing brain surgery at the end. What was with that?

 

I can't think of anything else at the moment, but something else I wanted to mention is that we kinda got no reaction from Moo Chi or Bong Yi about Ba Reum being a lab rat. I mean I guess I can understand that Ba Reum killing their family consumed their thoughts more and they don't forgive Ba Reum. I kinda wish they touched upon it a bit though.

 

Overall though, about Mouse... Great acting from everyone. I find it interesting how people now think that Lee Seung Gi is an amazing actor, don't get me wrong -- he did phenomenal in this role, but I always knew he was a great actor  Now to say that this is his best role to date? I wouldn't disagree with that. This drama definitely showed how much talent LSG has.

 

I'm sorry this post is getting too long but anyone else relieved that this drama is over haha... We were on a wild ride folks

[Sleepy Owl]

So Chingus, I am kinda late to the final episode party it seems. I watched the episode yesterday afternoon, but couldn't get time to post my thoughts. For me, it was kind of a fine ending seeing how messy the whole drama was actually. They pretty much connected all the dots, which was a good thing. 

 

But the whole dealing of OZ was so messy. You can't take down an underground society/group (or whatever we call them) overnight. I mean Hong Ju and Daniel had planned this for a long time, but then again they took down a big underground group just like that? I won't be buying it. And they actually further dealt with it by making President Shin pass the psychopath gene carrying fetus abortion bill. Since they got what they wanted, they won't re-surface like that. Instead, I would have liked to see some of the OZ still not getting arrested and starting a new project on new kids or maybe having a back up guy. Still, I am fine with the fact that the writer didn't pull off a WTH kind of thing. 

 

Still, the congresswoman won in the end. She got what she wanted for years, for this bill to implemented. I am a bit disappointed they did this though, but maybe they did it to show that public was still not ready to risk in getting the geniuses like Yo Han since they feared killers like Ba Reum. 

 

Ba Reum killing HH the way he used to kill his victims back then was interesting. I thought he would kill him, but not in that way. Ba Reum's end would be good/bad based on the perception of the viewers in my opinion. For me it was a fine one, even though Ba Reum repenting was because he got Yo Han's frontal lobe, but then again, he finally got to feel things and see things differently. So even though it was because of Yo Han feeling that way, it was Ba Reum feeling the same too. So I see that he died in peace even if he was in too much pain physically. Did he deserve it? I would never know. 

 

For others, they did a fine job. I liked the fact that Hong Ju having planned all this with Daniel was also imprisoned. Didn't really like the fact that JE killed herself though. We had seen she was moving forward taking care of Yo Han's son, I would have liked it she would stay for him. 

 

I didn't see the alternate ending yet. So Shin Sang's daughter has the genes? I think the genes he had were the one similar to Yo Han one. I mainly think about this, since he was just too happy to know when his wife informed him they were having a daughter, he was quite excited buying those shoes for his daughter, and when he was killed he tried to reach those shoes. As Daniel had said, the psychopaths don't really put on an act when they are alone. So maybe this guy's father was a psychopath, he wasn't, since we do know that certain genes passed on by the parents also remain dormant in the children, but still can be passed on to their children.

 

Still, I don't really like they went this way, maybe they could just show that some random person faked the test and their kid turned out to be a psychopath.

 

The doctor trying to do the brain transplant surgery while looking at the HH's video is an interesting turn of events too. It does not necessarily mean that this doctor would be psychopath either. HH's brain transplant surgery was actually he was too proud of as a doctor since it was a breakthrough in medical science. I think it was also hinted that Ba Reum's consulting doctor had also secretly recorded the meeting (please correct me if I am wrong). Thus while as HH had said, this surgery has got some moral issues, but if it does succeed, it would one of the biggest breakthroughs in the medical science, this doctor dude could also be trying to do the same.

[Avocado80]

The little girl has not being explained in the drama, but some one has mentioned in drama cast chart..the girl is little HJ..

When Sec. Choi was being kidnapped..I feel the vibe of " Taxy Driver" huahahaha...They hired anti hero from next door TV station..   

[pixiebelle]

Makes no sense to be little HJ. Her prophetic statement : "kill the mouse or you will become like the snake (killed by the mouse)" meant that little girl already knew then
-  the pet mouse was experimented on
-  BR will be in danger if the experiment continues

probably writer forgot about this scene. Hahaha...it's okay, I will just forget it

 

[ferily]

Also omg I just watched the alternative ending (?) in Mouse: The Last and two things that caught my eye:

1. Shin Sung's daughter ripped one of her toys head off. I'm assuming this means that she has the psychopath gene! I think in a conversation with Choi Young Shin and Shin Sung's father, they talk about Shin Sung having the psychopath gene... If this is true, why did the drama never explore Shin Sung having the gene?
2. The rat that Han Seo Joon did brain surgery on "died" and Daniel threw the rat out, but the rat came back to life  

I don't want to see no zombie Ba Reum or Ba Reum coming back to life from the dead (That is apparently being foreshadowed here in the ending..)

[backstreetboysfan]

Thanks for the video and pictures @bedifferent.

[Sleepy Owl]

38 minutes ago, ferily said:

Finally, Questions that I have:

• One thing that I'm really curious about is if Ba Reum was nurtured correctly since when he was young and the whole baby swap didn't happen, would he have turned out to not be a psychopath serial killer? And I know we had a discussion early on in the drama about nurture vs. nature. Now that I look back, I wish the drama could've touched upon this.
• Where is the logic in the baby swap? (I'm sorry, I had to mention it again)
• What will happen since the bill for aborting babies with the psychopath gene was passed?
• The person doing brain surgery at the end. What was with that?

 

1. I think Chingu, there was a chance for Ba Reum to be brought up in a better way. As a kid, he knew that he should not be harming others, which was the reason he would either harm himself scratching himself in the hand, or do it to the animals. Maybe things would be better if they would not see him as son of a monster, instead try some therapy. See a child psychiatrist and see how they should go forward if he is not like normal kids. The adults didn't take the responsibility here instead they kind of avoided it when they shouldn't have.

 

I actually felt a bit sad when Ba Reum once again said that he was not trying to kill Jae Min and wanted to scare him so he would not do it again. He said that to the nurse who fed him sleeping pills back then to kill him later on, and he said the same to his real mom. And I actually believe it. I don't think Jae Hoon would kill his brother like that all while trying to not turn into a monster praying desperately. Jae Hoon was desperate to not into a monster like people saw him, and I think he would try his best if he would meet a doctor who would assist him in overcoming this. Having the psychopath gene does not really mean that one is destined to kill everyone. 

 

2. This brings us to the baby swap thing where the moms actually avoided the responsibility in my opinion. I honestly believe that when Jae Hoon had tried his best not to become the monster while living in a great peaceful family. If he would live knowing how he could turn out like his dad, it would help him more try not to turn that way. As I said, Jae Hoon knew he should not do certain things, so he knew what is right and what would be wrong.

 

Coming to Logic that you asked, they did it so they could kill each other's sons if they would see them turning out as monsters. Since if they would try to kill their own kids, there was a chance that they would hesitate in doing it. 

 

3. The bill for aborting kids would not really solve things. The ones who did this, did it to filter out 1% of the population having such genes, in which we could have genius people who would achieve big things or do great work. As I said, would the problems would be solved if you filter out 1% population? Would the crimes stop, the wars don't happen etc. As we saw, each character in this drama has killed or tried to kill someone at one point of the drama. We have had killers (members of OZ) who killed innocent people so that they could achieve what they want. So I don't really see this bill changing much.

 

4. The person doing the surgery in the end, as I said, must be trying to achieve what HH wanted to as doctor. It is something big in medical science, yet would have moral issues in testing. I think once HJ sent that recording to Choi Young Shin, she could have given it to a doctor to do so, or maybe it happened to reach this doctor. Or, it could be, I am not too sure though, but the doctor who Ba Reum was seeing post surgery thinking to be the one who operated on him also seemed to have secretly recorded the surgery. So maybe this recording reached some one. 

 

I do agree that certain things were left unanswered. I also liked Mu Chi as character though. 

[ktcjdrama]

1 hour ago, ferily said:

The abortion for fetus with psychopath gene being passed! Like wow, that law was passed with the vote of the country.. I don't know how I feel about it passing...

The more I think about this bill, the angrier I get. Or amused maybe because of how ridiculous it is. Like how is the government going to implement that? Have all the pregnant mothers in the nation be tested? On whose fund? And if found positive with genes, then the government order an abortion to the parents? Whose fund? As a mother, I am going to contest the result. Give me all the research data to show that the result is reliable and valid before you ask me to kill my baby. Show me proof because one BaReum is not enough statistics. It’s my baby and my body, how is the government going to force me to have an abortion? If I refuse, what will the penalty be? Jail time? Hefty fine? Arrest me, arm wrestle me into the abortion process?  You see why I don’t know if I should be angry or laugh at the bill that was passed.  

[Sleepy Owl]

4 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

The more I think about this bill, the angrier I get. Or amused maybe because of how ridiculous it is. Like how is the government going to implement that? Have all the pregnant mothers in the nation be tested? On whose fund? And if found positive with genes, then the government order an abortion to the parents? Whose fund? As a mother, I am going to contest the result. Give me all the research data to show that the result is reliable and valid before you ask me to kill my baby. Show me proof because one BaReum is not enough statistics. It’s my baby and my body, how is the government going to force me to have an abortion? If I refuse, what will the penalty be? Jail time? Hefty fine? Arrest me, arm wrestle me into the abortion process?  You see why I don’t know if I should be angry or laugh at the bill that was passed.  

 

I totally agree with all your points Chingu. JE had thought to have abortion at one point since she came to know she is pregnant with HH's son. Despite knowing her fetus to have similar genes, she decided against it. But, how many such cases would we find here? 

 

Most of the cases will be like Yo Han (not as how he was, but his parents). His mother, the nurse claimed that since the kid's father is a good guy, the baby will also turn out to be good despite having such genes. Wouldn't every one claim the same thing after seeing the test results? 

 

I don't really think this bill surviving more than few years, people will be protesting, the government will face problem providing extra budgets for it, etc. Overall, the country will be divided into 2 big groups. I don't see President Shin winning the election next term