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30 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

The whole story of baby swaps was not believable but what was more disturbing to me was JiEun's suicide.  I think her ending was harsh.   Bareum's indifference toward his biological mother, saying she was as much a monster as his father, made JiEun more wicked than I think she really was.  The whole baby swap thing shifted some blame to the mothers, it didn't make sense for me even now that they were capable of murdering these babies.  Ji Eun's hatred toward Jaehoon/Bareum originated from Head Hunter so her actions were wrong but not without cause.  In any case, I can understand why JaeHoon/BaReum felt she failed as a mother, someone who didn't even love or help him when he needed.  Yet, to have Ji Eun committed suicide, I feel didn't give a good resolution to her story either.  Somehow, drama decided that she doesn't deserve redemption but Bareum does.  That and the fact that there were already so many deaths, why not spare her life with a more forgiving end?


So she committed suicide?  :expressionless:.  Blame God.  Blame the mother too?  Did the writer forget that she did a great job with YH?  She brought him up as a single mom and he didn’t turn out to be a psychopath?   :expressionless:
 

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I do like the ending at the church a lot.  It was fitting to witness Jaehoon hearing his adult self answered his own wish.  To hear that he indeed was able to be human, feel emotions, repaid his sins, build relationships with people, even be in love.... to know that he has the capacity to fought off the monster that his gene doomed him to be.  


But it wasn’t BR though?  It was YH’s implanted brain that did it for him?  I really wish the writer didn’t conflate the issues.  Had she gone down the route where BR woke up (with no brain transplant) and realized his sins of his own accord and made changes or his own accord, that scene played out in the church would have meaning.  That JH did have the capacity to fight off the monster.  That genes alone do not define him.  He had a choice.  In fact young JH showed that he did choose right on occasions.  When things annoyed him, he scratched himself (self harm) to alleviate the anger.  He was capable of learning restraint.  He didn’t need a brain transplant from a kind person to kickstart that process again.  But that really is a moot point now because the Bill was passed.  There would be no need for anyone to do that because all serial killers would be wiped out before they are even born.    

 

By the way, thanks for the summary of the salient points.  I don’t think I will watch Ep20.  Or the special ep tonight.  But I will continue to read spoilers.  :)
 

 

 

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Long time lurker but I had to get out of lurking to discuss this because there's 1209383 theories in my head LOL sorry in advance for the long post!   Right now, I'm definitely leaning towar

@nrlleeI think the recovered USB has Moo Won's old news interview.  The killer live stream his murder by calling in and forced the station to air his live stream.  The station aired both.  I think Moo

Just to prove how traumatizing this drama has been for me, I watch Doom At Your Service and YH’s friend appears in a funeral home segment and the thought crosses my mind, “wait a minute, he’s NOT dead

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Question:

How did the father detective know it was Producer HongJu who is his daughter?  She did not admit to being his daughter, only to being forced by Headhunter to luring the young woman and using BaReum to kill other bad people??

 

 

I didn't catch that part about JiEun committing suicide, didn't know she did that.  

 

Had to wipe my eyes and blow my nose while watching this last episode.  What a sad tragic life for many individuals.  I know BaReum said he promised Moochi to kill HH his own father which he did.  But still.... All these revenge etc. Etc.   I just finished Voice 3 and can't help remembering how owe character killed his relative.

 

but BaReum didn't grow up with HH and his real mom so it's hard to have any emotional connection to them, add to that knowing the wrong things they have done.  

 

I also didn't like the bill being passed.  It's like you're saying if a person has defects just abort them.  That is never the answer.  And that Choi getting pardoned was just so wrong.  

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4 hours ago, mystic62 said:

I am really uncomfortable of the results of the abortion election.  What it shows is that societies still reject the abnormal and mentally ill people in their world.  What would be satisfying would be enhancing better psychology treatments in the system that could help prevent more monsters like Young Choi to surface.  

Oh yes, and everyone forgot that boxer killed BR's family: mother step-dad and brother. Because of his his sister lived all her life in orphanage. But it's ok, because he is not a pcyco. He hadn't that gen. His mother even said, that she forgave BR. Such a saint mother... This level of hypocrisy, oh...

 

And what about Daniel? Was he in prison or they forgot about his crimes?

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11 hours ago, ferily said:

Definitely expected that ending with Ba Reum, curious what the alternative ending is though?

Me too...expected that end ...the actor was awesome ...my total respect for him... curious about the alternative ending ,hope we will know what happened with Daniel...he deserves to pay for what he did...

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10 hours ago, Avocado80 said:

@Mahsa Monem

 

Similar with you, I couldn't wait for the subtitle..so I decided to watch it with streaming 

 

My final thought of this drama
1. This drama is not perfect, but definitely one of memorable drama for me. We got the roller coaster, from the beginning til the ending. And this drama reminds me why I lovvveee so much with K-Drama, because it gives more in depth to the feeling and that's why connected with us more.. Even this is thriller genre but Mouse gives our heart racing and at the same time invested with the feeling of the characters

 

2. The ending is perfect and satisfying for me..Thank God they give us almost 2 hours in one episode for settle everything...I also like that they give us more screen time on settle the personal matters than to view more of chasing the Oz people...
We understand that there will be no "happy ending" for the criminal in this genre.. But in Mouse, I think many of the main characters get their happy ending. Det Mo Chi get his soul peacefulness, HJ get to reunite with her family and clean the name of her beloved one, BY doesn't afraid of her past and can continue her life happily...
And for BR, I think he gets the ultimate " happy ending"..He has repent his sin, he has taken the responsibility for his crime, he has got pardon from MC and BY..., he has done something big for his "hyung" MC, and in  the end he knows that God has answered his prayer..he is no longer a Monster, he is a human (He can meet CK without fear in the other world...hiks)..
My tears fall when adult BR and young BR hug in the end...Good bye Jeong Ba Reum......:please:

 

3.   The drama re-introduce me with LSG.. I knew him from 2005 from 2D1N when I first installed my cable TV and getting hooked with KBS station at that time.. Even I enjoy his songs such as Return, but I never pay much attention for his dramas..And because Mouse, I get to try Vagabond (binge it and enjoy it very much) and also watch others of his works in reality shows.. (I am writing while listening to his song...kekekeke.) Fortunately, he has sooo muuch TV programs so I definitely can release my withdrawal syndrome with watching them. I like more his older version which is more mature and charming (droll....hope you get great woman LSG ssi...I think non celebrity woman will suit you more...)

I also happy to know more on Hee Joon, Jo Hyun, Kwon Hwa Woon and off course Kang Hoon.. This young boy is surely a gem.. the successor of talented young actor just like  Yeo Jin Gu. He is soo cute.... 


Thank you for you all, for all the comment , information and also the predictions. You make me understand more what happen in this drama :fullofhearts:This is a very memorable journey..

 

@Avocado80 Same thoughts with regards to LSG's acting. It has improved 1000% haha This is may fave drama, aside from Vagabond. I do love him too in Gu Family Book. I'm so in love with him in variety shows because of his personality and humanity. Looking forward to his next projects. He can do noir genres (like Jung Woo Sung, Gong Yoo, Lee Jung Jae etc etc) from now on haha 

 

 

9 hours ago, Mahsa Monem said:

@airgelaal

I think the alternative endig is going to be related to this.

In this version the people voted for aborting the pychopath fetuses but the other one will be about not aborting.

Even though the ending was perfect for Bareum I hope to see a happier one for him in the alternative one (I can not stop crying whenever I think about Bareum's fatr and that beautiful scene in the church).

Does anyone know where was that place Moochi buried Bareum? 

@Mahsa Monem the burial site is inside the prison.

 

9 hours ago, nrllee said:


Same here.  I just want it to end. :lol:  I feel like I am more relieved that it’s finally all over.  Haven’t watched.  Not sure if I can muster enough motivation to watch it so I might just read spoilers. 
 

Wait...so they passed the Bill in this ending?  Which means they would abort fetuses who could turn out like YH?  :blink:  How is that a satisfactory ending?  So BR had no agency whatsoever?  Blame God because it’s all his fault for making psychopaths the way they are?  Psychopaths were just doing what they were born to do?  They can’t help it?  Why are people weeping for BR?  What about his victims?  He enjoyed hunting them.  He delighted in killing them in the most heinous ways.  He tortured them and prolonged their deaths so he could get a “high”.   How is that okay?  :expressionless:  I really dislike how this writer has muddied the line between right and wrong.

@nrllee In defense of the writer and her team, she showed how these psychopaths work in the beginning - brutal, heinous, no mercy etc. BUT when JBR murdered Fr. Moo Won, there's hope for this person. When there is forgiveness, there's is hope. If you know the story that Pope John Paul II forgave his assailant, that's a genuine act of forgiveness.

Viewers are weeping for BR because he repented to his sins. This is our silent prayer that everybody who repents and ask forgiveness will gain salvation from God. 

 

6 hours ago, ferily said:

Definitely expected that ending with Ba Reum, curious what the alternative ending is though?

 

It looks like that many of our questions were answered in this episode… Hmm I haven’t watched the episode with subs, only raw, but I feel like the conclusion of the OZ organization was very rushed.

 

Moo Chi and Bong Yi didn’t really forgive Ba Reum, of course, but it’s nice to see that they are living their own lives and move on. Honestly Ba Reum isn’t forgivable.

@ferily Oz Ops is still operating as the alternative ending. Yes, MC & BY cannot really forgive him because of how brutally he killed your family. For humans like us who's keep on looking at the right and wrong doings, punishment is the judgement. In repentance & forgiveness, being kind will save you from hell.

 

Finally, my thoughts:
1. I noticed that he died Nov 2021. So in real time, this ending is the future. Is the alternative ending the real time ending?

2. Some of the viewers doesn't really care what the message of the story was. Most of us are looking for justice, revenge, victories etc etc. because these dramas are (sometimes) mirroring our lives. I find Mouse as another opening to what SK can do to the society. It's a glimpse of what the future IF we are not kind to one another especially to our kids. Family is the foundation of a child's future. 

3. Suicide is not the solution to everything. It's a mortal SIN. Ji Eun is an example of an unforgiven soul. She thought that swapping BR to YH will bring her peace and getting away from HH. The writer showed to us that a lot of mothers were like her because of the society. 

4. All in all, it has a lot of physical story at the beginning, They supplied us a lot of vengeance to the killings, we want justice! Then when the story shifted to a much more emotional journey, we still wanted to be the police and kill JBR right away hehe The actors DID a great JOB. Kim Kang Hoon is more than a gem just like Nam Dae Rum. Being a psycho as role to this young guy needs a lot of withdrawal and counseling. These kids is the future of Korean Entertainment, I can't wait to watch him in 'Racket Boys'  :D  Even LSG needs to take a lot of break from this role. He's exhausted but at the same time, he gained a lot of recognition from his work.

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7 minutes ago, Ahjumemshie Lee said:

Viewers are weeping for BR because he repented to his sins. This is our silent prayer that everybody who repents and ask forgiveness will gain salvation from God. 


I agree about MW’s act of forgiveness.  I did say from the beginning before the BR reveal that MW chose the better option when he dealt with HH’s sins.  He could move on. MC could not.   What I wish was that the writer didn’t confuse the whole repentance by infusing YH’s conscience with BR with the brain transplant.  Had she left it out of her writing, I would say yes, there is a case for forgiveness.  With the brain transplant, I would say Predator BR never did repent.  YH did it for him.  Now question is, do we forgive BR had he shown no remorse at all?  Like HH?  MW forgave him.  He didn’t let the hate eat into his soul like MC did.  Justice was already served.  HH was in prison for life.  Would we do the same for Predator BR?  If he remained the same demented serial killer who thought he was god?  There certainly is a case for that.  But the writer didn’t let him stay that way so we will never know.  With the passing of the Bill, the writer has given us her answer to the problem.  To stop it at its source (kill the babies even before they are born).  So we never do have to explore forgiveness in future.  Now I am interested to see how she pens the alternate ending.  

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7 minutes ago, nrllee said:


I agree about MW’s act of forgiveness.  I did say from the beginning before the BR reveal that MW chose the better option when he dealt with HH’s sins.  He could move on. MC could not.   What I wish was that the writer didn’t confuse the whole repentance by infusing YH’s conscience with BR with the brain transplant.  Had she left it out of her writing, I would say yes, there is a case for forgiveness.  With the brain transplant, I would say Predator BR never did repent.  YH did it for him.  Now question is, do we forgive BR had he shown no remorse at all?  Like HH?  MW forgave him.  He didn’t let the hate eat into his soul like MC did.  Justice was already served.  HH was in prison for life.  Would we do the same for Predator BR?  If he remained the same demented serial killer who thought he was god?  There certainly is a case for that.  But the writer didn’t let him stay that way so we will never know.  With the passing of the Bill, the writer has given us her answer to the problem.  To stop it at its source (kill the babies even before they are born).  So we never do have to explore forgiveness in future.  Now I am interested to see how she pens the alternate ending.  

Yes. MW chose forgiveness that's why he's a priest. He entered priesthood to fully forgive HH. 

 
I'm excited toooooo .. but i don't have the energy to watch it without subs haha plus I have a looooooong list of dramas huhu 

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I'm really sad about Ji eun. Even moochi and Bi young tried a little to understand Ba reum. But no one tried to understand her. Not Hong joo and not  Yo han and not even his real son. She didn't deserve death. I liked her to live happily with her grandson 

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1 hour ago, Fatemeh Rahemi said:

She didn't deserve death. I liked her to live happily with her grandson 


I agree.  What did she do that was so wrong?  Wasn’t her fault she married a serial killer who duped everyone.  She never killed anyone?  She nearly did kill baby BR by throwing him out the window but it didn’t happen.  She loved YH and raised him the best she could?  She loved her grandson EunChong.  I don’t understand why the writer had to pen her death.  As if nothing she did mattered in the end.  She was better off dead?  :expressionless:

 

O by the way, did they ever explain why JE was the one to strangle BR at the shallow grave?
 

 

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29 minutes ago, nrllee said:


What did she do that was so wrong?  

 

 She asked BR's mother to kill him. That is why she tried to kill him, but boxer saved him.

She raised YH as a HH's son. He nearly died and wanted to kill himself because of this.

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I was confused that JBR was actually a murderer because I expected the conclusion that "serial murders were all OZ's work, JBR was just deceived, and there is no psychopath gene." In addition to this psychopath gene (it doesn't exist, and even if it does, it is ridiculous that selecting life for single gene), there were many unreasonable settings, such as brain transplantation, baby replacement, etc, but JBR's death and the question "punishment or salvation" were impressive. Should I also see "Black" by the same writer?  And I like OBY actress.

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2 hours ago, nrllee said:

by the way, did they ever explain why JE was the one to strangle BR at the shallow grave?

 Yes they did. Yo han told his mom that there's someone strange in their class. Ji eun got suspisious and went to see that kid. She saw Jae hoon taking his brother. So she saved the brother and strangled Jae hoon 

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Ep 20 : Ending 1. I thought it was rather neat. Most loops wrapped up. 

HJ was sentenced to 3years in jail because when she found out the truth from Dr Daniel, (BR after surgery) she said not to let BR know the truth and use him to kill the other psychopaths eg. rapist. For this part of the crime, she was jailed. 

It wasn't clear but I guess during the live show when she confessed she helped HH 26years ago she also revealed who she is, that's how her father knew.

JiEun killed herself by jumping into the sea as that's what it appears. Her voice-over apologised to YH and said she want to be with him even though he hates her. Then next screen, she was no longer standing on the rock.

Overall, they portrayed BR in a sympathetic light. When JiEun and BR met, BR told her he didn't intend to kill JaeMin and he didn't kill his family. JiEun had thought BR wanted to kill JaeMin (stepbro) that's why she tried to strangle him and then later when to swap-mom and told her to kill BR before he kills JaeMin. JiEun continued to track BR because she thought he killed his family. Up to that point, BR was just a misunderstood boy. Then he tried to seek revenge for his family when Oz fed him info of boxer. With murder of boxer, his predator instinct was awaken. 

MC changed his job to selling eggs. There was no scene which stated he forgave BR though he passed BR's msg asking to see BY to her. BY told BR she will never forgive him and will curse him till she dies but she overcame her fear of crossing the bridge in the rain and was attending college and getting promoted as script writer. She also name the pet bird Eunbongyi - same name as the pet bird she and BR had.

MC and HJ told each other to be happy. So overall, all the major characters had closure. 

Lady politician was released after 3 years due to pardon by president but she was murdered upon release. Who ? The epilogue showed a brain surgery, don't really understand it. Seemed like OZ still in operation and killed lady politician and still performing brain surgery by following HH's brain surgery video. (need to watch this again tmrw).

Will update after watching alternative ending (to be aired on my cable TV tmrw. Not sure why they name it Ep 24)

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3 hours ago, backstreetboysfan said:

Do we know what the 2nd ending is yet or no?.

 

I didn’t watch but via twitter-verse.

 

Mouse = Bareum didn’t have to die from his brain surgery.  Daniel was wrong with his observations, not giving the mouse a fighting chance.

 

 

More happy scenes for the survivors.  Drama should have included this one instead of the epilogue.

 

 

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Wait...so in the alternate ending I read

 

  • Det Shin’s daughter is a psychopath - which can only mean Det Shin had the gene after all, like we suspected.  
  • Det Shin’s dad (who is the President now) was shifty?

 

So I guess we were also right in suspecting President Shin (Wizard of Oz?) - Lady Politician was taken out by him in the end?  She was just the Wicked Witch of the West.  He was the one who ordered the kill on her after she came out?  Don’t know.  I didn’t watch.  Just trying to make sense of spoilers.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, nrllee said:

Wait...so in the alternate ending I read

 

  • Det Shin’s daughter is a psychopath - which can only mean Det Shin had the gene after all, like we suspected.  
  • Det Shin’s dad (who is the President now) was shifty?

 

So I guess we were also right in suspecting President Shin (Wizard of Oz?) - Lady Politician was taken out by him in the end?  She was just the Wicked Witch of the West.  He was the one who ordered the kill on her after she came out?  Don’t know.  I didn’t watch.  Just trying to make sense of spoilers.

 

 

Poor Detective Shin's wife. She's in the running for most tragic life: Father wrongly accused and spent years in prison, husband murdered and then daughter a psychopath.

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4 minutes ago, qynn said:

Poor Detective Shin's wife. She's in the running for most tragic life: Father wrongly accused and spent years in prison, husband murdered and then daughter a psychopath.

 

So it’s true?  I am just reading spoilers (which can be misleading) and that seems to be what was revealed last night?

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1 hour ago, nrllee said:
  • Det Shin’s daughter is a psychopath - which can only mean Det Shin had the gene after all, like we suspected.  

 

Why? There is no connection. 

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I haven't seen the alternate ending yet.  But the epilogue is nuts enough.

 

Another brain surgery.  The surgeon looks like HH? to me (a lefty).  But he's watching the video of the first surgery.  And the patient is played by Kim Yo-han.  

 

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Plus, more speculation about the meaning of these signs ...

John 11:23: Jesus said to her, 'Your brother will rise again.'

 

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  • ferily changed the title to [Drama 2021] Mouse, 마우스

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