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Long time lurker but I had to get out of lurking to discuss this because there's 1209383 theories in my head LOL sorry in advance for the long post!   Right now, I'm definitely leaning towar

@nrlleeI think the recovered USB has Moo Won's old news interview.  The killer live stream his murder by calling in and forced the station to air his live stream.  The station aired both.  I think Moo

Just to prove how traumatizing this drama has been for me, I watch Doom At Your Service and YH’s friend appears in a funeral home segment and the thought crosses my mind, “wait a minute, he’s NOT dead

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15 hours ago, ferily said:

Daniel never died. Daniel woke up while still at YH's place and YH moved Daniel to the abandoned hospital, and then Daniel recovered from there. We see this happen in Episode 18

I mean, when YH died. How Daniel survived when YH died. He had no identity and money. 

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14 hours ago, pixiebelle said:

I watched Predator ep1 and 2. Don't remember young girl mentioned, only a lot of repeated scenes from BR's point of view.
The Theatrical Cut I didn't watch.

No idea who the girl was and no idea how it can be HJ cos it makes no sense to me.

I suspect it's the congress lady but unfortunately She is too old to be the girl. The girl at the most when meeting Bareum..probably in middle high school? but It will be cool if The congress lady is a smart psychopath who doesn't make her own hand dirty but by manipulating people surrounding victims in the name of justice. 

 

About the baby swap..Those 2 women talked about keeping eyes on both of BR & YH so when one or both of BR & YH show psychopath behavior, they promise to kill. So as some of you already think, the swap is indeed done so it will be easier for both of them to kill since a mother will be hard to kill her own child out of pity.

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There's nothing much to write about as much of the plot is progressing as I've expected. 

 

I think detective Shin's father will play a vital role in the next episode. He needs to win the presidential elections and get rid of the female politician and the OZ organization.

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Even though I always thought presidential secretary lady was behind this, not Shin's dad as he was against forced abortion with good reason or rather personal reasons, it makes no sense how intricate this 'organization' is. Let's murder innocent people to show murdering innocent people is bad. Yes then sec. lady should have herself offed first. Problem solved. I have to say, I never once thought detective Shin was a predator.  The envelope passed to the person in the black car could have been getting the results of Daniel's tests on Yohan & Jaehoon. Like the pres. sec. lady. I hate that Shin was killed like that. Yohan's cheekbones give me life:blush:

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On 5/12/2021 at 9:35 AM, mystic62 said:

Their brother managed to save her by having her escape through their window before he died.(SSH had no clue he was in the closet when he torched the house and put Jae Min into the orphanage after finding her out of guilt)  The father died after seeing his wife corpse and tried to kill SSH but he got stabbed instead. 

Can someone please put together the sequence of events regarding JaeHoon's family death? It is the MOST convoluted events ever in the history of Kdrama!

 

JaeHoon was drugged by the the nurse feeding him his breakfast.  He passed out on the bed, she tried to suffocate him with the pillow.  SSH saved him, accidentally threw the nurse at edge of desk, she bled and lost consciousness.  Both JaeHoon and nurse are out.  JaeHoon's father came home, went upstairs and caught SSH in room, probably after he checked Jaehoon's pulse to make sure he is alive.  Father ran downstairs, grabbed knife in kitchen, fight ensued between SSH and him.  He ended up getting falling on stairs, stabbed during the struggle.   

 

This is where plot holes happened for me.

 

Somehow, SSH disappeared, went somewhere LOL?!  JaeHoon woke up, checked on his mom the nurse as she uttered her last words letting him know that another child with the same psychopath gene exists.  

 

Then...?

 

I remember from earlier episode that JaeHoon walked to bottom of the stairs, pulled the knife out from his stepfather, then up the stairs.  It makes no sense for me here because there is a conflict with the scenes.   Are we supposed to believe JaeHoon, after waking up and talking to his mom, would walk down the stairs, not crossing path with SSH, stayed on the bottom floor then decided to pull out the knife before walking up the stairs again looking for the killer?  It's like he roamed freely in the bottom floor with SSH in hiding.  Then we see SSH running up the stairs followed by JaeHoon knife in hand.  Which means SSH must have ran up the stairs without JaeHoon seeing. LOL All in the mean time, two kids Jae Hee and Jae Min are upstairs, not screaming, undetected by SSH during the struggle with the nurse or their stepfather.

 

I don't understand why Jae Min after leaving the closet to lead his sister down the opened window would not follow her but instead went back to hide in the closet?!  It would make more sense if he stayed in the same room with the window.... but then SSH would have discovered there was a kid inside. So writernim has him back to hiding in the closet!!!

 

It defies ALLLLL LOGICS!!!!  This drama is too much.

 

 

On 5/12/2021 at 10:25 PM, nrllee said:


He only confessed to killing BY’s rapist.  Not the lawyer or the other serial killer.  When he confessed to MC, he couched it to look like he was the “good guy” protecting BY?  So no, neither knew the full truth.  He gave MC a half truth (which is essentially a lie).  MC and BY had to work it out themselves through the episode.  :expressionless:

I dislike that scene.  BR pleaded with MC he needed time to find CK's killer, not confessing that he was the first killer that put CK in the hospital room to begin with.  He almost killed him with the head injury, even took his fingers, if not for HH's intervention.  BaReum was such a hypocrite there, writernim knew exactly how the audience feel so she has BR verbalized that he was a two faced lier.  It was not a confession in truth but an inconvenient half lie... He also added more lies to cover his tracks answering MC's questions about his whereabouts with the other characters.  He didn't even confess to killing his brother or Bong Yi's grandma.  The drama bents over backward to give BR the chance to right his life over the right of the victim's family.  If I were a victim of crimes and I watch this drama, my blood pressure would kill me.

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2 hours ago, bedifferent said:

I remember from earlier episode that JaeHoon walked to bottom of the stairs, pulled the knife out from his stepfather, then up the stairs.  It makes no sense for me here because there is a conflict with the scenes.   Are we supposed to believe JaeHoon, after waking up and talking to his mom, would walk down the stairs, not crossing path with SSH, stayed on the bottom floor then decided to pull out the knife before walking up the stairs again looking for the killer?  

 

He was on the first floor from very beginning.

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19 minutes ago, airgelaal said:

He was on the first floor from very beginning.

I don’t think he was.  BaReum was out from the breakfast.  Still on bed.

 

This is when Jaehoon’s stepfather came home and walked in.

 

186BEE7D-F2DD-4AEA-8246-20B0BCDA5A07

around 47:00 mark E18

 

SSH chased the father down the stairs.  Jaehoon woke up afterward.

 

Jae Min hid in closet and saw SSH ran upstairs then Jaehoon followed.

 

 

 

AB59CA4F-0226-4445-ADFA-9615BC586F45

at 51:00

 

Thus why I said the sequencing is off?

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@bedifferent when you put it that way...yeah...sequence is off :lol:.  To be honest I didn’t care anymore and have been fast forwarding scenes.  This drama make zero sense to me.  There really is no moral to the story at all.  No underlying deep message bar the fact that serial killers are everywhere and you can trust no one.  And serial killers can’t ever feel remorse or change for the better unless they have a brain transplant.  And they are the protagonist.  The writer has pretty much glamorised and glorified the serial killer as the top predator in the food chain.  To be feared and they are pretty much unstoppable unless they get too cocky and make a mistake.  And with the whole Oz experimentation backdrop, poor BR is just a “victim”, because they “made him do it”.   :expressionless:

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@nrllee well, I definitely think Jaehoon’s family murder scenes are unrealistic, seems writer asks us to suspend logics.  Jaehoon woke up and roam the house while SSH hid.  SSH held his panic the whole time, kept doing his job, and finally lost it when Jaehoon woke up.  The twist, falsely placing our perspective on Jaehoon walking up the stairs as if he came home and discovered the body, was not clearly explained.  It was not a convincing reveal for me.  There were some missing scenes.@ferily @pixiebelle @Sleepy Owl what do you think?

 

What I don’t want the drama, depicting 19+ violent scenes, do is blame shifting the crime of the perpetrator to some higher organization.  It reduces the accountability of the individual cuz I think even as entertainment, you have a responsibility to your audience to deliver some sort of a moral statement.  Only 1 episode left, the writer has not made it clear to me that she stands with the victims of crime.  I understand her point that BaReum never stood a chance to not be a psychopath because Oz were driven to use him as their posterboy for killing off psychopaths preventively. I do get that he deserves some understanding, but I don’t know if it’s right to not give the same amount of sympathy for his victims.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, bedifferent said:

JaeHoon's father came home, went upstairs and caught SSH in room, probably after he checked Jaehoon's pulse to make sure he is alive.  Father ran downstairs, grabbed knife in kitchen, fight ensued between SSH and him. 

JH’s room is downstairs near the kitchen. Note the background of wall and TV when JH’s stepfather looked into the room to discover SSH. It’s the same as when he tried to attack SSH just outside the kitchen. 
 

SSH went upstairs to check and he grabbed JH as JH was walking towards the closet where the little ones hid, put JH in the car, went back to torch the house. In the meantime, JM helped JH to escape, but why he didn’t also go down the window, I don’t know. 

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@ktcjdrama thanks, i will take your word for it.  I see your point about the wood paneling.  But if you look at the screenshot, the angle of the window opening is slanted with the weird walls, suggests it is not the first floor of a house and more of a second floor window.  First floor window would have been a more conventional shape, rarely angled in like that of a roofline as the building should have been at straight angle.

 

SSH ran up stairs quickly searched for others in the house.  In the mean time, Jaehoon woke up, had a long talk with the nurse, slowly walked upstairs, pulled out knife.  Seems like a long time must passed that SSH would just hide upstairs... after he killed someone, scared, what did he plan to do, just stay there until someone comes?

 

I’ll just put it down as Jaemin was a timid kid that couldn’t climb down like his sister so went back to hide in closet.  I still don’t think the writer and PD did a good job at explaining the scenes.

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5 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

@ktcjdrama thanks, i will take your word for it.  I see your point about the wood paneling.  But if you look at the screenshot, the angle of the window opening is slanted with the weird walls, suggests it is not the first floor of a house and more of a second floor window.  First floor window would have been a more conventional shape, rarely angled in like that of a roofline as the building should have been at straight angle.

 

BR room is on the first floor. It's a fact.

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Yeah @bedifferent the timing is off.  But I find that it’s the case with this drama.  Also how did BR get all that information?  The dead Boxer’s apparition at the Orphanage recounted it all to him?  How does that even work? :expressionless: JH was passed out in his bedroom.  He didn’t see any of the events that happened.  He made all those assumptions in his head.  And why would JaeHee recount YH’s words to BR?  That made no sense either?  JaeHee was petrified when she last saw BR (JH) and she’s just fine with him now?  I guess the writer had to use someone to tell YH’s story because he’s dead now and couldn’t do it himself.

 

I have very little faith that this will be wrapped up in a logical rational fashion.  With the 2hr long finale.  And then the night after there’s some Mouse Talk Show to clear up even more stuff (with extra BTS footage)... This drama is just one big mess.  Why would they need all these extra special eps to reveal stuff?  It just means the drama itself didn’t have enough information in there?  A drama should be able to stand on its own?  It shouldn’t need extra special eps to help you make sense of it?  Special eps are there to give you more depth but not to give you extra clues so that you can fill in the blanks left by the drama?  :expressionless:

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4 hours ago, nrllee said:

He made all those assumptions in his head.

 

This is the key point.  We are only seeing the version of what happened according to BR's assumptions and reconstructed memories.  He "remembers" that he beat the boxer, set him on fire, and stabbed him in the heart.  But the autopsy shows that the boxer was also severely beaten with a hammer all over his body.  Either BR forgot that part, or it didn't happen the way he is remembering.

 

Sadly, I haven't been able to persuade anyone that Ba-reum is not the Predator.  :lol:  (I'm still willing to discuss the clues, but people just see what they want to see.)  I think the ending and message of the show will be quite different from what EVERYONE thinks.  

 

:foodie2::foodie2:

 

039c8f0fcdb3d40262fd0748e606be06a9da0e9a

 

bf40725aebf1663d425da29c067eb0c16ce96708

 

 

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3 hours ago, bedifferent said:

I still don’t think the writer and PD did a good job at explaining the scenes.

LOL, they certainly didn’t, and not just these scenes for me. I can still accept the slanted roof as to maybe it’s just a very unique house design (I too initially assumed his room was on second floor).

What I am more interested is whether it has been explained why JE is the one shown strangling JH when he tried to bury JM. (Yes, I have been fast forwarding my watch. And I also did not watch any of the two latest specials)

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@ktcjrama Jien, while watching Jaehoon from afar saw him try to bury his brother and tried to strangle him. Nurse mom after that incident tried to suffocate Jaehoon when SSH stopped her. they tried to confuse the audience with both women having a similar haircut and style. That was dumb.

as far as the events of Jaehoon's family being killed and what room was on what floor I'm going to rewatch those scenes then come back to comment on it. Also my theory on why Jaemin went back in the house after helping his sister was to check on Jaehoon since he saw him being carried off. He was a good caring kid.

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@bedifferent I was trying to figure out the sequencing for Jae Hoon's family death because I was confused whether Jae Hoon's room is on the first floor or not. For the sequences it looks like this, I think?

 

  1. Jae Hoon tries to bury his brother Jae Min to teach him a lesson for tattletaling but his real mother, Ji Eun, comes to save Jae Min and says that she should've killed him (which by the way they never explained why she was there?)
  2. Nurse mom and her husband argue about Jae Hoon and what he'll do next. Mom is bathing Jae Min in the meantime
  3. Jae Hoon eats the curry rice but the nurse mom drugged it with sleeping drug
  4. Nurse mom tries to kill Jae Hoon by suffocating him but fails to do so because Song Soo Ho intervenes.
  5. Song Soo Ho throws the nurse mother against the desk and flees.
  6. Jae Hoon wakes up and starts to talk to the nurse mom and in the meantime...
  7. Song Soo Ho runs into the father and that's when they start fighting and his father gets impaled by a knife (btw in this scene, does anyone remember what floor SSH came out from? Was it the first floor out of Jae Hoon's room or second floor?)
  8. Jae Hoon then walks out of his room and finds the father stabbed by a knife, takes it and goes upstairs to confront SSH
  9. Okay and in the amidst of all this Jae Hee and Jae Min are in the closet hiding they heard noise downstairs so they hid
  10. Song Soo Ho knocks Jae Hoon out and brings him to his car and calls OZ telling them what happened.
  11. I'm assuming while SSH was outside, this is when Jae Hee escaped while Jae Min stayed behind
  12. SSH burns down Jae Hoon's house and I think we know where the story goes from there

I think that's the sequence of event for Jae Hoon's family death? This is all from my own memory so anybody please correct me if I am wrong.

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8 hours ago, 1ouise said:

Sadly, I haven't been able to persuade anyone that Ba-reum is not the Predator.  :lol:  (I'm still willing to discuss the clues, but people just see what they want to see.)  I think the ending and message of the show will be quite different from what EVERYONE thinks.  


You go girl!  Stand your ground!  Who is the Predator then?  Why would they make 2 eps of BR as The Predator just to show us?  That’s taking trolling to a whole new level.  :lol:  But hey anything is possible with this writer.  
 

58 minutes ago, ferily said:
  • Song Soo Ho throws the nurse mother against the desk and flees.
  • Jae Hoon wakes up and starts to talk to the nurse mom and in the meantime...
  • Song Soo Ho runs into the father and that's when they start fighting and his father gets impaled by a knife (btw in this scene, does anyone remember what floor SSH came out from? Was it the first floor out of Jae Hoon's room or second floor?)
  • Jae Hoon then walks out of his room and finds the father stabbed by a knife, takes it and goes upstairs to confront SSH

I think it’s confusing because we see 2 split versions of the actual events so fitting them in a chronological sequence is making it hard.  Because it looked like JH has heaps of time to wake up, talk to nurse mom and then just wander out (slowly), pause to look at dead dad and then walk (slowly again for effect :lol:) up the stairs.  
 

In Ep 18’s version, Boxer knocks Nurse out, dad comes home, seems to see Boxer, heads to kitchen and grabs knife.  They fight and he gets killed.  Boxer seems to take a look up the stairs at this time so presumably he heads upstairs to look for the other 2 children.  I assume that’s when JH wakes up and talks to nurse mom.  Finishes talking, strolls outside, pulls knife out of dad, strolls up the stairs and I guess that’s when Boxer knocks him out (did he use chloroform?  If he did why would he just have that with him?). Carries JH outside into his car and calls Oz. Heads back in with accelerant (again not sure how he had that unless he went to buy some), sets the house alight.  In that time I guess that’s when JMin helped JHee escape.  Goodness knows why he decided to hang around. That made zero sense.  
 

@GingerK yeah that’s probably why we had JiEun try to strangle JH at the shallow grave.  Again it makes zero sense for her to do that.  Who would have all that time to tail someone else’s child?  She had her own (YH) she was supposed to “watch”?   :lol: Or the other possibility is that Nurse mom was in the kitchen (I remember seeing her shadowy figure in the background in the kitchen) when JM was lured to the grave by JH.  She realized that the boys were gone, she panicked and enlisted the help of JiEun (they had to be living close because JH and YH went to the same school) to find the boys and JiEun found them first. Hence the strangling.  

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8 hours ago, GingerK said:

Also my theory on why Jaemin went back in the house after helping his sister was to check on Jaehoon since he saw him being carried off. He was a good caring kid.

@ktcjdramaI'm sorry, I didn't watch Predator part 2, skipped through it really fast but I did watch part 1.  Did it show JiEun intervened, choke JaeHoon to rescue JaeMin (besides the blurry face and JiEun's reaction in the car in part 2?   I don't remember seeing that being pointed out.

 

@ferilyI think the fight between SSH and stepfather occurred before JH woke up.

 

I am not sure if JaeMin stayed because he wanted to check on Jae Hoon.  JaeHoon was already carried off by SSH, Jaemin saw it with his own eyes.... that's why he left the closet to help his sister escape.  If he goes back, he would be wandering the house looking for Jae Hoon and possibly see his father dead on the stairs.  I assume he ran back to the closet when SSH came back to douse the gasoline (which was conveniently available).   I don't doubt he was a caring kid but he was def scared of JaeHoon by now after the burying incident and SSH has already taken JaeHoon away.  So why go back? I think he could be scared of height.  The writer did tweet that a lot was edited off E18, they are doing the special episode again so maybe this will come up.  A lot of assumption for now.

 

The house was set on fired by SSH, partially burned, the trapped bodies would have been somewhat burned so we would have to assume the stepdad's body and stairs were not burned completely for them to realized that he was stabbed.  Otherwise, would be a charred body or skeleton, hard to investigate.   The police ruled out JaeHoon as a suspect (I assume from the stab wound?) or did they suspect him for the arson?  I can't remember what JaeHoon was accused of in the earlier episode.  The investigation of the arson origin should have tipped off the police on how the fire was started.  If was from a flammable source, you would have to consider if a kid can get the gasoline (with no money, no witness), plan the arson after killing his father and escaped all by himself.  

 

@nrlleeperhaps the envelopes passed by Daniel into the mysterious car is the test results of all the tested patients to Sec Choi.  This is where she gets the list of the possible psychopaths.  It was not the result of another kid with the gene (no third kid?).  If was, why would Daniel pass on private confidential information to a congresswoman? Is it because they worked together at one time before their goal drastically diverged with Daniel realizing and disagreeing with her intention?  

 

Hong Ju threatened HH.  I wonder what she would do and how her revenge would take place, anything to do with her knowledge that BaReum is HH's son.  If the killing continues, an eye for an eye, it would make this drama one of the most depressing ones I have ever seen.  I feel bad for Detective Park.  He's alone in this world, a figure so pitiful.  

 

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  • ferily changed the title to [Drama 2021] Mouse, 마우스

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