[Drama 2021] Mouse, 마우스

[airgelaal]

11 minutes ago, 1ouise said:

I don’t see how Ba-reum could have found Kim Joon-sung’s home from learning the address of the laundry.  (If he had asked the laundry, wouldn’t they have alerted the police?)  For me that is a plot hole, or it didn’t happen that way.  OZ is doing much more than just following Ba-reum.  

Ba-reum is the police himself 

27 minutes ago, nrllee said:

 

@airgelaal I thought it was Oz that cleaned up the mess after the lawyer guy was killed.  I get the feeling Daniel was working for Oz for a while but he decided to bail after a while and they decided to get rid of him as a result?  Maybe that’s why he tried to get BR to kill the Lady Politician?  

 

Nope, they shown that it was Daniel. And Daniel himself told this to BR. And even more. Daniel trigged BR to kill Kang Duk-Soo and OZ helped him. It was after OZ tried to kill Daniel. So I can't understand want's going on with Daniel.

[Fatemeh Rahemi]

1 hour ago, airgelaal said:

Nope, they shown that it was Daniel. And Daniel himself told this to BR. And even more. Daniel trigged BR to kill Kang Duk-Soo and OZ helped him. It was after OZ tried to kill Daniel. So I can't understand want's going on with

 

I watched the part again. Daniel didn't say he was the one. He just said the person was fleeing was not that lawyer. I think it was OZ doing. OZ wanted Bareum to kill people. So they helped him kill Kang Duk Soo. But Daniel just wanted him to kill predators.

There was a scene ( I don't remember which ep) Daniel was having a fight with sb about why don't you stop him from killing people. The person's face was not clear, but I'm sure she was that political woman

[pixiebelle]

40 minutes ago, Fatemeh Rahemi said:

 

There was a scene ( I don't remember which ep) Daniel was having a fight with sb about why don't you stop him from killing people. The person's face was not clear, but I'm sure she was that political woman

Yup, that was ep 18

[mystic62]

4 hours ago, nrllee said:

She was a child?  She could say she was coerced and no one would blame her?  It would be his (HH) word against hers?  Who would the public more likely believe?  Did she even need to reveal her part in it?  She could just say she couldn’t remember?  Even an adult put in that situation would succumb to fear of HH? Much less a child?  Who would the Police and general public’s sympathies be with?  Every child abduction I know of who finally escape their captors have the public’s sympathies?  Her reluctance to end the suffering of her parents just baffles me. 

Yes, HJ was the little girl seen in the 1st episode who later revealed to be the old detective daughter who was missing along her brother who was killed by HH.  Both her parents thought she died too due to his old partner implanted her similar pyjama clothing on his other friend's little girl to cover his son's crime and buried her showing in episode 8. 

In the 90s Korea, the society there was different because they would still put the blame on a child despite they were coerced into committed crime. His former wife was brave to show the public her husband was the culprit but everyone still pointed finger at her being his spouse and showed no symphony nor understanding of her circumstances having been fool like the rest of them of his charade.   Plus this was the period they learned the meaning of serial killing so they don't have much system how to help victims like her dealing with her trauma unlike the United States.  

[pixiebelle]

okay I finished EP 19 :

Revealed :
1) Baby swap occurred - confirmed by DNA reports which YH had and now in MC hands. YH and JaeHee are siblings and BR and HH are son-father. That was how YH knew Ji-Eun was not his biological mother.

2) Fake-Aunt was ex-fencing champion hired by Oz to replace boxer to monitor BR. She was scared of BR and made him live and grow up independently at at early age (Errr...then how to observe ??!!). She got married and gave birth to a boy - BR's cousin. She got frighten when BR took her son that day and she resigned from Oz. She kept 2 reports as a security to protect herself (that's what she told BR). The 2 reports we saw when BR was flipping through, recorded all observations of him and YH. From there he drew the conclusion that's why YH went to see him....something like that.

3) YH's friend found out there was a secret Team 3. YH made some reports about BR through official channels but strange Oz people turned up so he knew he was up against some powerful people and he decided to take it alone. (not clear when Daniel came into the picture and they started working together).

4) In Ep1, Daniel brought a gift to JiEun and HH. Remember he was their friend and went to visit them ? It was a baby cloth with the word "bless" made by his mother for JiEun & HH's baby. Daniel recognised this piece of clothing from BR and swapped-mom picture in his room (ep 18) {Beats me why BR biological mom JiEun would dress baby-BR in that clothing than swap baby& clothing with the pregnant nurse...Kdramaland!}

5) BABY SWAP - flashback - JiEun delivered baby (BR) and was going to kill him by throwing him out of the window. Pregnant nurse stopped her. Pregnant nurse saw young knot murderer threw his mom out of window. Both of them scared their babies will grow up to be monsters. JiEun told pregnant nurse she must watch her baby and kill him immediately if he exhibits any predator symptoms. *end* Speculation : the 2 moms were worried they couldn't kill their own child so they swapped babies with the understanding that they will kill the baby/boy when he exhibits predator symptoms. Later on, pregnant nurse re-married and gave birth to JaeMin and JaeHee. She tried to kill BR when he killed his step-father's dog & fishes.

6) Hospital director gave BR pills which will cause him to lose control over his emotions and become aggressive. Only MC found out about this. 

7) OZ purposely triggered BR's predator instinct by telling him Boxer killed his family. After brain surgery, they triggered it again by knot murderer's victim.. making it similar to BR's original style and spraying mint scent.

8) HH suspected BR (b4 surgery) was the one who tried to kill Chiguk . He went to shower room to investigate and found BR's headphone and HH heard the music which he was playing to his baby(while in JiEun's tummy ???). So he got suspicious and agreed to do brain surgery (early female politician went on her knee to beg him to save BR and do a brain surgery but he refused). At the hospital, HH overhead his wife talking to YH. That's when he knew for sure BR was his son and not YH. He then insisted he need a live brain. Hospital director said YH's vitals are back to normal but HH insisted that would be YH (his "son") redemption for all the evil things he did. So HH took YH's brain while he was still alive ! JiEun collapsed and was deep guilty when HH revealed all these to her. {so it seems brain surgery was not OZ's plan??}

9) HJ did not return to her parents because she was very guilty that she left her brother and ran away because she was so scared. She managed to escape because of some tool left behind by boxer's sister. HH didn't expect her to be able to run away and survive. By the way, she acknowledge her dying mom but she still didn't acknowledge her dad. 

10) Detective Shin investigated BR on chief's order. He broke into BR's flat and found YH's friend laptop. I think this laptop has evidence about Team 3 and/or BR's murders. He click on a Wizard of OZ book and some script started running on the laptop. Maybe that's how Oz found out laptop was accessed.
Detective Lee seemed to want to steal it from him but he was unsuccessful so Oz sent guyA to kill Detective Shin and grabbed the laptop. GuyA planted some evidence on Detective Shin to make it look like predator BR killed him. {What ??? BR their prized possession??, and why kill Detective Shin ? if OZ's objective is to rid the world of predator why are they murdering people like predators ??}

Ep19 ended with BR in female politician's home saying Daniel told him to kill her - the top predator. Does she also have predator DNA or it is a metaphor that she was controlling the whole project ? She doesn't seem scared of BR. Oh, BY was kidnapped - likely to be OZ. Maybe they will use her to try control BR+YH's brain.

---------------------------------------

I think they have explained most of the issues except for that surrounding Daniel ?

Also,
a) Who is that girl that crushed the mice in front of young BR ?
b) HH always worked alone so why did he not kill HJ but needed her to lure victims ? not a very predator-style ? 
c) Why did HJ's dad suddenly decide to return HJ's son to her ? He was using the baby as bargain to find his "dead" daughter's body.

Can't wait for this long messy drama to end 
 

[airgelaal]

1 hour ago, mystic62 said:

Yes, HJ was the little girl seen in the 1st episode who later revealed to be the old detective daughter who was missing along her brother who was killed by HH.  Both her parents thought she died too due to his old partner implanted her similar pyjama clothing on his other friend's little girl to cover his son's crime and buried her showing in episode 8. 

In the 90s Korea, the society there was different because they would still put the blame on a child despite they were coerced into committed crime. His former wife was brave to show the public her husband was the culprit but everyone still pointed finger at her being his spouse and showed no symphony nor understanding of her circumstances having been fool like the rest of them of his charade.   Plus this was the period they learned the meaning of serial killing so they don't have much system how to help victims like her dealing with her trauma unlike the United States.  

First of all HH never killed her brother. And second, what would she do if she was a usual hostage and never helped HH? She would also hide from her parents? Because HH could tell she helped his, when she never did. So what's the difference? HH hadn't any evidence, that she helped him. As someone already said it would be his word against hers. No one would believe him kike no one believe him now. She suffered for nothing. She made her parents suffer for nothing. His former wife was and adult and she was his wife. No one would blame a little girl, who was kidnapped by HH.

[mystic62]

29 minutes ago, airgelaal said:

First of all HH never killed her brother. And second, what would she do if she was a usual hostage and never helped HH? She would also hide from her parents? Because HH could tell she helped his, when she never did. So what's the difference? HH hadn't any evidence, that she helped him. As someone already said it would be his word against hers. No one would believe him kike no one believe him now. She suffered for nothing. She made her parents suffer for nothing. His former wife was and adult and she was his wife. No one would blame a little girl, who was kidnapped by HH.

Being helpless for not helping her brother who died trying to save her then force to help HH in his murder left a profound psychology trauma to her as a child because she was force to torture and kill people.  I think HJ felt unworthy to be back to her family because she was too tainted 

[ferily]

@Sleepy Owl No idea when or why Hong Ju and Daniel started working  together, that part was really unclear and I was confused about it myself. I know that Hong Ju and Daniel talked once in the past because Hong Ju wanted to do an interview but does that mean they've been communicating since then? Strange...

 

I am also not sure how the drama will be able to wrap everything up in the last episode.. I feel like there are still so many unanswered questions.

 

@airgelaal It was the OZ organization who cleared the scene after Ba Reum killed Woo Hyung Cheol. We see that an OZ guy was watching Ba Reum the whole time and cleared the scene. Same with Han Kook. Daniel had no idea about the two and it was the OZ doing.

 

Daniel survived because Yo Han saved Daniel at the amusement park. Yo Han took him to his basement and treated him after Daniel was attacked by the OZ organization.

 

@pixiebelle Hmm I was still confused why Headhunter and Hong Ju worked together but I'm assuming that after Headhunter killed HJ's brother, he took her captive and forced her to help himm We see she lured the boxer's sister and they end up being together. The boxer's sister ends up dying and Hong Ju ends up escaping. This is what I think?

 

As for the mice, it was Hong Ju who crushed the mice in front of Ba Reum

[airgelaal]

42 minutes ago, ferily said:

 

@airgelaal It was the OZ organization who cleared the scene after Ba Reum killed Woo Hyung Cheol. We see that an OZ guy was watching Ba Reum the whole time and cleared the scene. Same with Han Kook. Daniel had no idea about the two and it was the OZ doing.

 

 

I don't think so.

And here is a prove.

Spoiler

 

Person, who cleared after BR called Daniel.

 

Daniel met BR and exchanged phones with him

Called him and asked.

 

 

And the last.

 

 

If it was OZ, how Daniel found out that BR killed WHC and OZ cleared the place? 

 

Quote

Daniel survived because Yo Han saved Daniel at the amusement park. Yo Han took him to his basement and treated him after Daniel was attacked by the OZ organization.

YH moved Daniel to another place. He was still unconscious. And then he died. So how Daniel survived?

[Sleepy Owl]

1 hour ago, ferily said:

@Sleepy Owl No idea when or why Hong Ju and Daniel started working  together, that part was really unclear and I was confused about it myself. I know that Hong Ju and Daniel talked once in the past because Hong Ju wanted to do an interview but does that mean they've been communicating since then? Strange...

 

 

I mean the whole scene was just too weird to me. Hong Ju was quite fine stalling time for Daniel to run away from BR. We do know that Hong Ju knows BR killed the bad guys (mainly Duk Soo), and one of the main reasons she hid that fact was since she just like Bong Yi believed that BR did it to save BY. But here, someone called her to BR's house, so that he could be saved (claiming he is held captive there). This is not normal situation, and honestly, HJ was just too cool in the situation, almost as if she knew things about BR since the start. Their conversation was too smooth for them to have just met once or twice before. 

 

2 hours ago, ferily said:

I am also not sure how the drama will be able to wrap everything up in the last episode.. I feel like there are still so many unanswered questions.

 

 

I am quite sure about it here. I still believe the writer wasted time with the whole Woo Hyung Chul arc, dragged the story there, tried to make viewers confused as who the real murderer and other stuff. Maybe she could spend more time in revealing and explaining stuff properly. As I said, HJ is just too much involved in almost everything happening in the drama, and yet she is not seen much in the episodes itself, which is just crazy. Her screen time is too less, and if I were to see how much plot involvement BY and HJ have in this drama, HJ has been more involved, but yet she is no where to be seen. 

 

2 hours ago, ferily said:

Also again, does anyone know what happened to Kim Joon Sung and HOW he died? I forgot what happened to him...

 

Chingu, the night grandma died, YH was wearing Kim Joon Sung's raincoat. So while he fights briefly with BR, BR catches him with his raincoat, and YH takes it off running away.

 

Some days later, coming back to the scene BR finds the raincoat, finds the tag of a laundry on it. Goes there to see who it belonged to. Finds out it was Kim Joon Sung's, so he goes and kills him. 

6 hours ago, nrllee said:

At this point I just want the drama to end already.  It made little sense after the brain transplant.

 

Det Lee seemed to want Shin to hang out with him because he knew he was going to be killed?  Or did he call it in and got him killed by Oz as a result?   But BR had an irrefutable alibi?  So they pretty much shot themselves in the foot?  

 

Well I also had enough of this drama, and want it to end soon 

I do agree that things went off track post that brain transplant thing. 

 

Det. Lee I believed wanted to of course to get that laptop, but in a more peaceful way. By that I mean, he must have not really wanted to have Shin Sang killed over this. Even if he belonged to OZ, he has spent fair amount of time with all in the Police station, so he must have wanted to protect him as much as he can. Since he could not really stop Shin Sang, he was later on killed. 

 

I am bit shocked though here. The OZ group surely knew that BR was in Jeju Island. Or if they didn't know it, they knew that he cut off his tail and could not be located. So this was always a risky thing to do if they really thought they could put the blame on BR. I think this was one of those extreme situations they decided to take action, since if they would not do it, everything would be revealed. 

 

Still I wonder, if the whole OZ organization will be destroyed in just one episode, while being so properly structured and in dark. Like no one knows about it, its a small secret society of its own. Would they just cease to exist if their founder/main leader gets killed? I am not too sure. What I think is, in the end whatever happens to BR, what we'll see will be OZ group not completely destroyed and they marking new kids as their targets.

[ferily]

17 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

Chingu, the night grandma died, YH was wearing Kim Joon Sung's raincoat. So while he fights briefly with BR, BR catches him with his raincoat, and YH takes it off running away.

 

Some days later, coming back to the scene BR finds the raincoat, finds the tag of a laundry on it. Goes there to see who it belonged to. Finds out it was Kim Joon Sung's, so he goes and kills him.

Ah okay so it was Ba Reum who killed him.. I just forgot who killed him. I know that Yo Han was wearing Joon Sung's raincoat, but I was confused what happened to Joon Sung afterwards 

 

17 minutes ago, Sleepy Owl said:

I am quite sure about it here. I still believe the writer wasted time with the whole Woo Hyung Chul arc, dragged the story there, tried to make viewers confused as who the real murderer and other stuff. Maybe she could spend more time in revealing and explaining stuff properly. As I said, HJ is just too much involved in almost everything happening in the drama, and yet she is not seen much in the episodes itself, which is just crazy. Her screen time is too less, and if I were to see how much plot involvement BY and HJ have in this drama, HJ has been more involved, but yet she is no where to be seen. 

The writer definitely dragged out many things in the drama. I don't like how the writer kept the viewers out of the dark as long as possible. Again comparing to Beyond Evil haha... I like how that drama reveals everything slowly and doesn't keep the viewers hanging for too long. This drama makes the viewers confused and have question after question. I think some of our main questions were answered but like even in the last few episodes of this drama, the drama throws more questions at us. Plus it doesn't clearly explain things (i.e. baby switch, why exactly HJ helped HH aside from her being captive, or BR alibi 1 year ago).

 

1 hour ago, airgelaal said:

 

I don't think so.

And here is a prove.

  Hide contents

 

Person, who cleared after BR called Daniel.

 

Daniel met BR and exchanged phones with him

 

Called him and asked.

 

And the last.

If it was OZ, how Daniel found out that BR killed WHC and OZ cleared the place? 

Oh interesting, I thought it was the OZ organization that cleared up Woo Hyung Cheol. So then maybe Daniel cleared the scene for WHC but OZ organization cleared up Han Kook since they knew BR was the 7 sins killer. Or is it that Daniel is working with someone within OZ organization or something, but that wouldn't make sense because OZ is after Daniel.

 

1 hour ago, airgelaal said:

YH moved Daniel to another place. He was still unconscious. And then he died. So how Daniel survived?

Daniel never died. Daniel woke up while still at YH's place and YH moved Daniel to the abandoned hospital, and then Daniel recovered from there. We see this happen in Episode 18

[Fatemeh Rahemi]

1 hour ago, ferily said:

The writer definitely dragged out many things in the drama. I don't like how the writer kept the viewers out of the dark as long as possible. Again comparing to Beyond Evil haha... I like how that drama reveals everything slowly and doesn't keep the viewers hanging for too long. This drama makes the viewers confused and have question after question. I think some of our main questions were answered but like even in the last few episodes of this drama, the drama throws more questions at us. Plus it doesn't clearly explain things (i.e. baby switch, why exactly HJ helped HH aside from her being captive, or BR alibi 1 year ago).

 

I actually liked this about the drama. It was interesting. The problem is that she didn't explain things well. I was hopeful that she will answer my questions fully, but many things are so absurd and not answered. The things we talk about like baby swap and Hong ju should be answerd by the writer not the viewers. 

[nrllee]

4 hours ago, ferily said:

Hmm I was still confused why Headhunter and Hong Ju worked together but I'm assuming that after Headhunter killed HJ's brother, he took her captive and forced her to help himm We see she lured the boxer's sister and they end up being together.

I thought she helped with the filming as well?  That’s why she knew the tapes?  HH would perform the surgeries and she would hold the video camera.  So maybe that’s why she felt so guilty as well? 
 

 

[aw614]

Good discussions so far, such a mess to watch with all the unevenness, but I need to watch it til the end lol.

 

One thing, if anyone could clarify, didn't Hong Ju send something to the congress lady in charge of Oz? This hopefully should be revisited? Can't fully recall the situation though. and didnt Hong Ju go to that abandoned lab/office that was the HH's prior to sending that item? 

[nrllee]

12 minutes ago, aw614 said:

One thing, if anyone could clarify, didn't Hong Ju send something to the congress lady in charge of Oz? This hopefully should be revisited? Can't fully recall the situation though. and didnt Hong Ju go to that abandoned lab/office that was the HH's prior to sending that item? 

That was the tape/video of him performing brain surgery on mice and humans.  HJ mailed it to the Lady Politician.  She saw how things were progressing with BR having failed surgeries and she thought back to that time when she witnessed HH’s surgeries.  I think that could be why she’s feeling so guilty.  She was complicit to the horrors she witnessed.  I vaguely remember the video showing him telling her to hold the camera steady or something.  That’s why Lady Politician knew about HH.  She watched the video mailed to her.  Hence why she got HH out of prison and begged him to save BR at all cost?

[pixiebelle]

Why is HJ the girl who crushed the mouse/mice infront of young BR (raincoat boy) ?

. Are young HJ and BR friends ?
. How did young HJ know about altered-mouse & mouse+snake incident to make the comment about how young BR will be destroyed by the mouse if he didn't kill the mouse ?

 

[nrllee]

1 hour ago, pixiebelle said:

Why is HJ the girl who crushed the mouse/mice infront of young BR (raincoat boy) ?

. Are young HJ and BR friends ?
. How did young HJ know about altered-mouse & mouse+snake incident to make the comment about how young BR will be destroyed by the mouse if he didn't kill the mouse ?

 

Was it explained in the Special eps? I didn’t watch The Predator or The Theatrical Cut.  I think most of us here think HJ was the girl who stepped on the mouse.  Who else would she be?  She saw the experiments that HH did with the mice and the scars on their heads so maybe she just assumed?  Or was she some random badass girl?    Was HJ adopted?  Her uniform looked nicely ironed and she looked well cared for?  
 

And how did the altered mouse just appear like that?  I thought it was one of them that escaped the box that Daniel opened.  But surely his lab wouldn’t be near a school or the zoo?  Or wherever it was that young JH came out of?  What’s the chances of the altered mouse showing up in front of young JH?  And then young HJ (??) meeting him and squishing the mouse with her foot.  This drama is just so confusing. 

[pixiebelle]

I watched Predator ep1 and 2. Don't remember young girl mentioned, only a lot of repeated scenes from BR's point of view.
The Theatrical Cut I didn't watch.

No idea who the girl was and no idea how it can be HJ cos it makes no sense to me.

[ferily]

7 hours ago, nrllee said:

I thought she helped with the filming as well?  That’s why she knew the tapes?  HH would perform the surgeries and she would hold the video camera.  So maybe that’s why she felt so guilty as well? 

You are right chingu. I forgot that she helped with the filming. The drama really left us hanging with Hong Ju huh? Also why hasn’t she told her father who she is by now?! She came out to her mother, shouldn’t she tell her father too?

 

7 hours ago, Fatemeh Rahemi said:

I actually liked this about the drama. It was interesting. The problem is that she didn't explain things well. I was hopeful that she will answer my questions fully, but many things are so absurd and not answered. The things we talk about like baby swap and Hong ju should be answerd by the writer not the viewers. 

Yes exactly. The drama started off strong but after the brain swap, the writer introduced more questions and topics and never answered previous questions leaving the viewers hanging. I totally agree that the writer should’ve answered the question about the baby swap and Hong Ju by now.

[nrllee]

You’re kidding me...another special ep?  Talk show?    And Ep20 is 2hrs long?  It’s overkill (pardon the pun)?