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[Drama 2020] Startup (Sandbox), 스타트업


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53 minutes ago, ryanallright said:

Sandbox is just a dream and not reality

 

The real world is much harsher.

 

With today's advancement, expectations and technologies, if you are unable to keep up and impress, the sharks will just say goodbye to you or eat you up.

 

They are not angel investors

Even angel investor here (family, friends, fools) are ready to chase you around with wooden stick (dosan's dad) and took back his investment. So even in the drama, if you get funding, then prepared your funder press you to explain how the money being used (a.k.a business plan, balance sheet). There are no free lunch.

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1 hour ago, Nymeria289 said:

@cmoirae2 I agree with most of what you've written....the overwhelming idea here seems people corporate world cares about your feeling and are sensitive to accomodate to your needs. The reality is, there are so many students graduating each year and flooding bay area. You hustle, you network, you hunt for job or else you're doomed. So, nobody has time to even breathe, let alone be emotional about every single thing. I've been getting a lots of remarks here and there without being directly addressed. I've never said people have to listen to or agree to my view but I find it ridiculous that drawing from experience and giving some real world perspective is so triggering to so many people. If you want to ignore things because its a drama, that is perfectly fine. I am not sure why I have to do that. 

yep chingu, but as I would always say to each his own but at the same time I'm just shaking my head.  Fine if arguments are drawn from experience but if it's just a feeling or some speculation without sound basis and devoid of logic, it's as good as fake news.  LMAO

 

Sandbox is even not as bad as what i have seen ... it can be worse in the real world.  Of course we understand this is a drama however we also need to set a delineation between real and reel.  yeah we can swoon over the NJH and KSH but we also have to understand that kdramas specially those centered on romance were made to do this to its audience.  One can't justify actions blindly and say what they did was right just because he is an oppa.  LMAO.  Black is black.  White is white.

 

With Sandbox, we got a peek into the different leadership personalities you may meet IRL - someone as empathic is CEO Yoon, someone as upfront as JP and someone as sleazy as Alex vis-a-vis different types of young professionals like DM, IJ, SH who early on are poised for success and on the other end of the spectrum DS, CS, YS who I would say are like diamonds in the rough.  They have the potential to succeed because they have talent however they also need to have the proper attitude and open mind in order to bring out the best in them.  Perhaps that is what the writer has in store for the next episodes.  Overall, I like Sandbox - it's one of the best kdramas this year.  It has a well written script, good production value and having eye candy like NJH and KSH are big bonus.

24 minutes ago, Dramageek said:

Even angel investor here (family, friends, fools) are ready to chase you around with wooden stick (dosan's dad) and took back his investment. So even in the drama, if you get funding, then prepared your funder press you to explain how the money being used (a.k.a business plan, balance sheet). There are no free lunch.

yeah, DS's dad's manner of communicating 'you have to shape up or else' is physical vs JP's which is verbal but both send the same message ... making sure that investments bear fruit.

1 hour ago, ryanallright said:

Sandbox is just a dream and not reality

 

The real world is much harsher.

 

With today's advancement, expectations and technologies, if you are unable to keep up and impress, the sharks will just say goodbye to you or eat you up.

 

They are not angel investors

unless you work for a non-profit but even if making money is not the core of the business, the organization is still accountable for delivering objectives of various programs.  they are accountable that programs achieve results within the budget allocated for the programs.

1 hour ago, Dramageek said:

I agree with a lot of your points@cmoirae2, because Venture Capital world is such a niche market. Startup will only grow and get funding if they get referal into the network of funders/VCs. In real world, if a startup founder ever throws a punch to a VC from Softbank Venture (SH I assumed were modelled after softbank venture, the only one invest in AI in 2016) and the news spreads, he'll be blacklisted forever and can kiss their startup dream away for good.

 

I get why NDS angry, I understand why he is what he is. I like NJH since forever. But to be honest if this is real life his attitude will get him blacklisted from startup world.

 

Many still saw the character through rose coloured glass of Kdrama without any perspective on how harsh is the reality of the start up and VC's world, the odds to success only 10%. Other who willing to understand, start watching HBO Silicon Valley (more realistic potrayal about startup). HJP has this atypical VC behaviour actually, but compared to the VCs in HBO Silicon Valley HJP can be considered a mild sheep.

 

I am all for HJP to be a better and more empathetic person but the reality is some of his traits are some kind of occupational hazard, common trait of VC who came strickly from financial background. While CEO Yoon seems more emphatetic coz the drama itself said that she was ex startup founder herself. In VC both type of person exist in a firm to check balance each other to asses the high risk nature of startup investment.

 

And actually alex deal is a fair exit in the startup world. It's just that samsan tech expect to be instagram, but they become friendfeed instead (when bought by fb).

 

I see a lot of misconception about sandbox. Dad's metaphor are romantized too much. As if being in sandbox startup founders are being nurture with full guidance by their mentors. Sandbox is startup accelerator (selection into accelerators very competitive 3%), different with founders institute or campus incubator who can do more mild/nurturing mentorship. The concept of "sandbox" is actually pre-seed funding (100 million KRW) in exchange of 6-10% equity, so startup founder didn't have to get a loan from the bank to grow their business & in debt when failed. They are also given offices facilities and access to the network of investors for the next round of seed founding at demo days. Pressure is high. So the mentors are actually representatives of pre-seed investors, who prepared them to even harsher vc/sharks in other round of seed funds, how to pitch, how to deal with investor question, how solid is your bussiness model. Mentorship usually provides simulation of pitching session. Your mentor will ask you many trick and though questions. Your mentor also gives you input on your business plan. No baby sitting happening. The great mentorship is measured by how far your startup being mentor by U grow, as in get more rounds of fund (bigger valuation) or successfully exit.

 

If you cannot deal with harsh reality of seed funding, how will you face series A, B, C etc with bigger investment, more money at stake, bigger pressure.

yep, in the same way, a CEO's or his family and cohorts' behavior or any scandal may rock the value of stocks for public companies.  We've seen that in a lot of kdramas.  

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I agree with what @lebeaucouplesaid as well!

Final comment on the issue...
Personally, I started this drama because of the writer (loved her previous works- I can hear your voice, while u were sleeping, etc) and wanted to see something refreshing lol. Knowing it’s a youth drama, I was expecting all the impulsiveness, hotbloodedness, lack of self-confidence lol…so I was more ready to forgive these actions and rather focus on the character's intentions through the writer’s lens. And @cmoirae2, @Nymeria289, you guys pointed out these flaws as they are too critical in the real world and I can see that! At the end of the day, as @cmoirae2 said, how we view things are based on our experience, in this case, I might add also intention on watching! lol I put aside most of my logical self, stepping into the kdrama land lol All DS representing to me is the potential to grow as a young professional, facing hardships and failure in order to suceed, loving others wholeheartedly even sometimes that makes you do stupid things!
I don’t think most of us here intend to hurt each other in the comments, but texts can appear harsher when reading from someone you don’t know. So a little misunderstood here and there escalate everything! I don't think any of us have to feel the need of explaining yourself when enough has already been said from both sides. Also, the viewers in this threads have quite diverse background :D it was interesting reading comments from you guys who know a lot more of about tech and business! 

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Aside from the two guys, lets just focus away....am I the only one who finds the way the whole Seo family dynamic is unraveling to be mind boggling. The mother is back with her mother-in-law and even interacts with Dal Mi but In Jae is MIA as far as form of human interaction is concerned. Does that make sense?

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On 11/25/2020 at 2:08 AM, Dramageek said:

I agree with a lot of your points@cmoirae2, because Venture Capital world is such a niche market. Startup will only grow and get funding if they get referal into the network of funders/VCs. In real world, if a startup founder ever throws a punch to a VC from Softbank Venture (SH I assumed were modelled after softbank venture, the only one invest in AI in 2016) and the news spreads, he'll be blacklisted forever and can kiss their startup dream away for good.

 

I get why NDS angry, I understand why he is what he is. I like NJH since forever. But to be honest if this is real life his attitude will get him blacklisted from startup world.

 

Many still saw the character through rose coloured glass of Kdrama without any perspective on how harsh is the reality of the start up and VC's world, the odds to success only 10%. Other who willing to understand, start watching HBO Silicon Valley (more realistic potrayal about startup). HJP has this atypical VC behaviour actually, but compared to the VCs in HBO Silicon Valley HJP can be considered a mild sheep.

 

I am all for HJP to be a better and more empathetic person but the reality is some of his traits are some kind of occupational hazard, common trait of VC who came strickly from financial background. While CEO Yoon seems more emphatetic coz the drama itself said that she was ex startup founder herself. In VC both type of person exist in a firm to check balance each other to asses the high risk nature of startup investment.

 

And actually alex deal is a fair exit in the startup world. It's just that samsan tech expect to be instagram, but they become friendfeed instead (when bought by fb).

 

I see a lot of misconception about sandbox. Dad's metaphor are romantized too much. As if being in sandbox startup founders are being nurture with full guidance by their mentors. Sandbox is startup accelerator (selection into accelerators very competitive 3%), different with founders institute or campus incubator who can do more mild/nurturing mentorship. The concept of "sandbox" is actually pre-seed funding (100 million KRW) in exchange of 6-10% equity, so startup founder didn't have to get a loan from the bank to grow their business & in debt when failed. They are also given offices facilities and access to the network of investors for the next round of seed founding at demo days. Pressure is high. So the mentors are actually representatives of pre-seed investors, who prepared them to even harsher vc/sharks in other round of seed funds, how to pitch, how to deal with investor question, how solid is your bussiness model. Mentorship usually provides simulation of pitching session. Your mentor will ask you many trick and though questions. Your mentor also gives you input on your business plan. No baby sitting happening. The great mentorship is measured by how far your startup being mentor by U grow, as in get more rounds of fund (bigger valuation) or successfully exit.

 

If you cannot deal with harsh reality of seed funding, how will you face series A, B, C etc with bigger investment, more money at stake, bigger pressure.

Agree with a lot of your points and I used to be an investment banker so I know the business world is not kind. JP speaks a lot of truth that novices need to hear (e.g. questioning SST's lack of a viable business model, telling DM the noongil revenue model didn't make sense). It's perfectly normal to attack a business idea or challenge the fundamentals of a company since you're putting good money into someone's hands.  

 

What I took issue with was the timing of JP's harsh words, the delivery style and how he often made things personal which frequently led to unprofessional behaviour e.g.

- insinuating Yongsan's brother was a 'fraud' or had no business being a CEO (attacking a person like that in a public setting could give rise to defamation claims and he could have just focused his criticism around the business itself) 

- publicly telling DM who had just been fired that 2STO only wanted the developers from the beginning (was this the time and place to announce a message like that in front of everyone, making her cry?)

- using inflammatory, offensive language by telling SST only an idiot would invest in their company with their shareholder list or asking SST "are you naive or stupid" after CODA 

- yelling at DS about not having a business model that would entice investors in the early episodes

- speaking definitively about a person's impending failure to his face ("I can guarantee you guys will fail")  

 

Maybe to other people, the above behaviour is typical in their experience of the VC world. In my experience, appropriate workplace behaviour and employee sensitivity is integral to large organisations and is a mark of professional conduct. I just think JP crossed the line on many occasions.  

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3 hours ago, Arajo81 said:

Agree with a lot of your points and I used to be an investment banker so I know the business world is not kind. JP speaks a lot of truth that novices need to hear (e.g. questioning SST's lack of a viable business model, telling DM the noongil revenue model didn't make sense). It's perfectly normal to attack a business idea or challenge the fundamentals of a company since you're putting good money into someone's hands.  

 

What I took issue with was the timing of JP's harsh words, the delivery style and how he often made things personal which frequently led to unprofessional behaviour e.g.

- insinuating Yongsan's brother was a 'fraud' or had no business being a CEO (attacking a person like that in a public setting could give rise to defamation claims and he could have just focused his criticism around the business itself) 

- publicly telling DM who had just been fired that 2STO only wanted the developers from the beginning (was this the time and place to announce a message like that, making her cry?)

- using inflammatory, offensive language by telling SST only an idiot would invest in their company with their shareholder list or asking SST "are you naive or stupid" after CODA 

- yelling at DS about not having a business model that would entice investors in the early episodes

- speaking definitively about a person's impending failure to his face ("I can guarantee you guys will fail")  

 

Yes I agree that he needs to work on his delivery and timing. His reflecting on that and became a better person is what I hope for his character growth in this drama. If we are prunning the tree for it to bear fruit, it's better to understand how the best way to cut so the tree did not end up die.

 

His word fraud to Yongsan's brother is unnecessary and too much. Also agree to all of your point above except for one. The one he said at the first time he met Samsan Tech (early episodes). The hardest time for a VC when to say No is when there's a problem with the team. Samsan tech at the time is all hackers, no hustler and hipster (the role that later filled by Dalmi and Saha). With an incomplete team, even soft-spoken ex founder angel investor won't invest.

 

If faced with situation like that any VCs will say politely, sorry too early for me to invest. And that's exactly what HJP said. But the boys keeps edging him & try to blackmail him because they have the higher ground. And ticked of all the don'ts of articles in 10 things don'ts do when you meet a VC. You don't ask a VC who usually did Series B above investment to fund your FFFs startup. You don't research your VC from lifestyle glossy magazines but through linked-in and cruchbase (Mark Suster will also ripped that magazines apart lol). You don't ask a freepass into an accelerator unless u want to ruin the whole startup ecosystem. Understandable if he blows up.

 

But I also get and understand why Samsan tech did the blackmail. They were desperate. Desperation is founder friend, so I appreciate that they have the spirit. Afterall they are young and recless supergeeks who usually more passionate about the coding and tech aspect, rather to read bussines sides of startup.

 

In ep 12 NDS fold the page of startup lawsuit book. The tittle said know your investor. I am like damned U should read the book before ep2 kiddos! now it's too late.

 

Many kids aspired to be startup founder watch this drama. So I hope they get the message.

You should be desperate as a founder

You should get use to a No. But don't give up. Be resilient.

But you shouldn't be clueless. Learn the aspect of startup business even if you are not the CEO.

Cap table or share holder list is the root of all evil in every startup conflict. Cofounder who did not understand the termsheet always end up being in the end of the stick. Like what happen to original fb cofounders.

 

 

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After reading so many expert comments, I am glad and thankful I learnt things from some of you by sharing here.

From this drama, it triggered me this thought, the keyword here is "Balance", a person needs to understand what role and responsibility he plays whether in the working environment or any situation he is in. A person who can strike balance between those, he will be a winner. Not easy.  Simple yet profound. When I was younger, I did not understand much of the profoundness of this keyword "balance", but I learnt it through life experience.

In all aspects of our lives balance is key. Doing one thing too much or keep repeating the same thing can cause upset, like the old saying goes, everything in moderation is the secret ! Everyday is a learning day !

“Balance is not better time management, but better boundary management. Balance means making choices and enjoying those choices”  - credit to ~ Betsy Jacobson. Cheers !

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In eps 12 dalmi said why do you like coding /algoritm ect ect,he said because its comfortable language to him. if jipyeong and halmoni make a love letter to dalmi ,then by doing an update to noongil service is a form of love letter from dosan to dalmi and halmoni.

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On 11/23/2020 at 3:43 PM, baby.hae said:

 

I'm sorry but why you need to bring Dosan would get jailed because of his punch? I'm not justify his action but man, that scene is sooooooo common in kdramas, or any dramas, or any movies, TBH I never ever see someone when two male leads fighting or punching each other, would mention that the male lead had to go to jail lol, for real

 

Tbh the hate that Dosan getting is sooo ridiculous, it's not healthy anymore.

 

It's obvious kdrama watchers are not ready to someone like Dosan, I guess the writers should take a note to write character like JP or any typical male lead rich, handsome, success, chaebol or whataver. It would be easier. No wonder all the typical rich male lead are crazy popular

The only thing is when male leads try to defend female leads like DS tried to with her evil stepdad and breaking the glass, he still went on his knees and begged for forgiveness after where most leads I see would have more dignity than that. Honestly I lost all respect for DS when he backtracked on his impulsive move and begged that hateful chairman for forgiveness.

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16 hours ago, Nymeria289 said:

Aside from the two guys, lets just focus away....am I the only one who finds the way the whole Seo family dynamic is unraveling to be mind boggling. The mother is back with her mother-in-law and even interacts with Dal Mi but In Jae is MIA as far as form of human interaction is concerned. Does that make sense?


I find this quite baffling as well. But you know... it’s a k-drama after all, so logic doesn’t always applies :glasses:

 

The most unbelievable thing for me apart from the grandma and Dal Mi forgiving the mother so easily is that CEO Won Doo Jung even married their mother in the first place. You know their mother was a divorced penniless woman with a teenage daughter in tow. How the heck did she manage to meet or even marry someone like CEO Won? He’s not exactly like a Prince Charming who married her for love (since he cheats on her and probably even beats her). He’s the type to date models, so why on Earth did he marry a poor divorced mother? 

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57 minutes ago, aisling said:


I find this quite baffling as well. But you know... it’s a k-drama after all, so logic doesn’t always applies :glasses:

 

The most unbelievable thing for me apart from the grandma and Dal Mi forgiving the mother so easily is that CEO Won Doo Jung even married their mother in the first place. You know their mother was a divorced penniless woman with a teenage daughter in tow. How the heck did she manage to meet or even marry someone like CEO Won? He’s not exactly like a Prince Charming who married her for love (since he cheats on her and probably even beats her). He’s the type to date models, so why on Earth did he marry a poor divorced mother? 

The CEO isn't chaebol rich is what I understood? He was steadily rising with good income when he met Dal Mi's mother. I think the company grew over time and we know for a fact that the Korean division had In Jae manage a whole new subset, Nature Morning as well as the US division. And he is either widowed or had been divorced with a son when he met Dal Mi's mom. So, maybe he thought she is the perfect doormat/ women who is greedy and has low self esteem he needed to carry on with his life of debauchery. And the way Dal Mi has been up In Jae's case, I'd assume she'd take longer to forgive her mother so the whole thing feels weird to me. Not to mention, the halmoni has zero interactions with her other grandchild. Are we sure, In Jae wasn't adopted or something?

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11 hours ago, lebeaucouple said:

After reading so many expert comments, I am glad and thankful I learnt things from some of you by sharing here.

From this drama, it triggered me this thought, the keyword here is "Balance", a person needs to understand what role and responsibility he plays whether in the working environment or any situation he is in. A person who can strike balance between those, he will be a winner. Not easy.  Simple yet profound. When I was younger, I did not understand much of the profoundness of this keyword "balance", but I learnt it through life experience.

In all aspects of our lives balance is key. Doing one thing too much or keep repeating the same thing can cause upset, like the old saying goes, everything in moderation is the secret ! Everyday is a learning day !

“Balance is not better time management, but better boundary management. Balance means making choices and enjoying those choices”  - credit to ~ Betsy Jacobson. Cheers !

Yes balance is the key.  You brought up a valid point.  Whilst some are offended by JP's being upfront and brutal (as I mentioned, I've seen worse) he should at least commend the team for their accomplishments.   However he is not as tech savvy as Alex who understands technology on a deep level and would not be aware of the key technical milestones SamSan had achieved until demo day.  He sees the bigger picture - like seeing the forest instead of trees that small accomplishments go unnoticed. Typically, though not needed, you would have someone like DalMi report the team's progress so that JP is in the know but JP's job to focus on the business/financial aspect which at the end of the day would be the key and main interest for investors and people like JP. 

 

And yes, I understand that this is kdrama and to some extent JP has to be portrayed as a type-A personality mentor.  I personally don't take offense with his actions but at the same time the drama also portrayed the SamSan team to be on the extreme end of aspiring, talented but volatile entrepreneurs who did not do their homework to meet expectations of JP.  

 

@KabiOn another note, I understand how some fans get so carried away with kdramas. I have also fangirled before and lived vicariously through the FL (it was serious fangirling even traveling to see oppa). I blindly sided with my oppa right or wrong but came to a point where I feel that my emotions supersede logic.  It had to stop. Nothing against fangirling. I've been there done that but at this point logic and reason tops. I do still enjoy kdramas, spazz, ship characters but it ends when the drama ends.  But touché I would always say to each his own but I would still say my piece.  If you have been offended my apologies.    Let's enjoy the drama but do understand presenting one's objective perspective is not bashing and in this way it alleviates any future discord in this group.   Let's move on.  

 

@Nymeria289 yes the dynamics of the Seo family is interesting.  It's one of the different flavors of a modern family.  You can see that halmoni is by nature a good person.  I'm not sure if she has forgiven DM omma but she showed compassion the same way she did for JP.  It would be interesting to see how she can be of value to halmoni and DM.  Hahaha.  She's trying but not enough.  Let's give her credit for effort.  I'm guessing this may pave the way for healing and reconciliation between DM and IJ. 

 

BTW,  I recommend watching Shark Tank.  You'll see different aspiring entrepreneur stories.  

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