[Drama 2020] Startup (Sandbox), 스타트업

[Arajo81]

8 hours ago, Nymeria289 said:

I can add my two cents here because Yong San's brother's situation has happened to me. My first boss, supervising boss was of the attitude "Results matter, efforts don't" ....first  2Q, went smoothly. I got stuck in a tough one on last quarter. The mounting expectations for results, inflexible attitude really got to me. After speaking to a number of close colleagues, I decided he won't change, either I have to bridge the gap, ramp up my speed and keep up or find something else. I found something else. It was scary but this time around, I spoke to my supervisor clearly to set professional boundaries, work schedule and expectations. Point is, what Yong San's brother faced is fairly common. Its business, none of it is personal. That's the simple reality. Ji Pyeong was blunt but never out of line. I don't from the set up within the drama have enough reasons to pin the entire burden of the unfortunate suicide on his shoulder. 

May I add another perspective? No one is pinning the entire burden of the suicide on JP's shoulders but I don't think it was his finest moment. He asked a number of (fair) questions that Yongsan's brother was struggling to answer. While the CEO was obviously squirming, JP then insinuated he was a "fraud" by not doing his research properly and continued a line of blunt questioning after he already proved his point. 

 

It's one thing to question a business model but humiliating someone and making personal attacks when someone is visibly crumbling was not necessary. The drama is pretty balanced because the sandbox director makes it clear that JP wasn't to blame. At the same time, it shows the unintended consequences of JP's harsh truths. JP is in a position of power over these entrepreneurs who have sacrificed a great deal to get there. Showing some human sensitivity, not making the questions personal and backing off when you've proven your point would have made a massive difference here.

I don't think it's fair to just say Yongsan's brother should just leave and run his business somewhere else. Who knows what mental health issues or personal struggles people have? In this case, he didn't have any other options. Yongsan's brother put his grad school dreams on hold to get into Sandbox and didn't even tell his parents. After Demo Day, he couldn't find any investors and his spirit was broken after being publicly humiliated. The entire point of Sandbox is to give entrepreneurs a safe place to fall and land. If people like Yongsang's brother just have to get over it and not take it personally, shouldn't JP also reflect on showing some empathy with his feedback so he doesn't push someone off the edge?

[Dramageek]

10 hours ago, Dundee said:

Anyway did Dalmi and the lawyer got their share from the 3 billion? I mean at least enough for Dalmi to start over? I really don’t like her sister but Dalmi working with her sister also good idea. And i think Dosan went abroad also good, it give restart for their relationship

I wrote thread in twitter explaining how much each samsan tech shareholder get from the exit. But it's pretty long technical one.

[Nymeria289]

@Arajo81 I gave a real world perspective, one, there's bound to be a few others but I know humiliation quite well, there's a reason tech is a breeding ground for assholes,  its almost inevitable as you deal with people and strengthen your defense mechanism....they needle you till you break and see how much you can take...sandbox isn't there to protect your feelings, tech accelerators and incubator protect your technology and investment...which all things considered was the thing they failed to do in case of the acquisition for Dal Mi's start up. If you can't keep up, they will fire you or you will leave. It is what it is, almost everybody is replaceble. In an ideal world, maybe it should be what you have described but in real life, its a whole different story. I am not saying Ji Pyeong was a model mentor but his attitude is common and most people don't react to the extreme as a consequence. And people hardly change. That's just a POV. Its not 100% applicable to every scenario. 

[ChunSungIm]

Now and then

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

2 youth struggle in life,that what makes perfect.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Jillia
Please put more than 3 pics/IGs in spoiler tags, thanks!

[Amat Oji]

Hello, Kang Han-Na is here.

 

 

 

https://m.post.naver.com/viewer/postView.nhn?volumeNo=30038036&memberNo=29770009

 

https://n.news.naver.com/entertain/article/215/0000917344

 

For english translation

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH6i_RkJxiP/?igshid=1uks741c7tfmm

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Amat Oji

[zenya22]

1 hour ago, Arajo81 said:

May I add another perspective? No one is pinning the entire burden of the suicide on JP's shoulders but I don't think it was his finest moment. He asked a number of (fair) questions that Yongsan's brother was struggling to answer. While the CEO was obviously squirming, JP then insinuated he was a "fraud" by not doing his research properly and continued a line of blunt questioning after he already proved his point. 

 

It's one thing to question a business model but humiliating someone and making personal attacks when someone is visibly crumbling was not necessary. The drama is pretty balanced because the sandbox director makes it clear that JP wasn't to blame. At the same time, it shows the unintended consequences of JP's harsh truths. JP is in a position of power over these entrepreneurs who have sacrificed a great deal to get there. Showing some human sensitivity, not making the questions personal and backing off when you've proven your point would have made a massive difference here.

May I add another perspective? I understand that people will have different responses to criticism and yes, humiliating someone already struggling is unkind. JP may have learned that there are "unintended" consequences to his actions when he learned that YS brother committed suicide and maybe re-evaluating himself. But even if it was not JP who questioned YS brother and someone kinder, would it have made a difference as to YS brother's actions or response? Everyone gets humiliated or rejected and some in worse ways, in love, investments, relationships, work etc. but do not commit suicide. People deal with losses and failures in many different ways, in different time frames and one day pick up and move on. YS brother was unprepared to accept and deal with consequences that does not go his way. The reasons maybe the fear of losing, fear of failure, shame. In one of the brother's conversations, the brother told YS that he put everything he had and his money on the line for the success of his start up business. He put himself in a now or never situation with no contingencies. He was unable to cope with what if he did not succeed or win. The consequences of that suicide continues to reverberate through his brother YS, who is struggling to understand and still grieving, unable to cope. He now needs help. Would it have made a difference if someone else other than JP asked the questions? 

 

 

[Arajo81]

58 minutes ago, zenya22 said:

May I add another perspective? I understand that people will have different responses to criticism and yes, humiliating someone already struggling is unkind. JP may have learned that there are "unintended" consequences to his actions when he learned that YS brother committed suicide and maybe re-evaluating himself. But even if it was not JP who questioned YS brother and someone kinder, would it have made a difference as to YS brother's actions or response? Everyone gets humiliated or rejected and some in worse ways, in love, investments, relationships, work etc. but do not commit suicide. People deal with losses and failures in many different ways, in different time frames and one day pick up and move on. YS brother was unprepared to accept and deal with consequences that does not go his way. The reasons maybe the fear of losing, fear of failure, shame. In one of the brother's conversations, the brother told YS that he put everything he had and his money on the line for the success of his start up business. He put himself in a now or never situation with no contingencies. He was unable to cope with what if he did not succeed or win. The consequences of that suicide continues to reverberate through his brother YS, who is struggling to understand and still grieving, unable to cope. He now needs help. Would it have made a difference if someone else other than JP asked the questions? 

 

 

You raise some good points. I’m not saying the questions were wrong but the style and manner lacked empathy which JP needs to work on. If we’re saying YS’ brother should have handled things better, I’m just saying JP could have too. The fact is fragile people exist in this world so the way we deliver messages and their timing can make a difference. Whether a kinder person would have still led to the same result doesn’t justify JP’s careless disregard for the feelings of others (a consistent trait) or erase the pain that resulted from his words. 
 

When Jp said noongil was going to fold anyway because it didn’t make any money, he spoke the cold truth and didn’t care about the person listening. When he realised he was talking about the app that would make a difference to his beloved halmoni, he realised that the same ‘truth’ can actually hurt people (himself) depending on the context. The point is JP doesn’t know everything so he should think more before being so critical of others.

[nat_phoenix88]

The most touching moment when Ji Pyeong and grandma hugs. It was so sad, as if Ji Pyeong is his real grandson. 

[lebeaucouple]

Everyone has a different perspective and valid points in assessing the real world. That makes the world beautiful.
As each of us handles situations in different ways, from there, we know our own strengths and weaknesses, and try our best to overcome and improve further.

Being a mentor myself, I also learnt that the choice of words is very important to others, there are just double-edged-swords, before we take on the role of mentor, we need to access the mentee profiles too in order to help guide them throughout the learning journey. Sometimes, we even request the mentees go for a psychology test of self-acceptance before the jump start of the session.

Unfortunately the drama Sandbox did not go through the pre-test for the young entrepreneurs. This psychology test is to allow participants to be kind to yourself, take comments positively, believe in yourself, accept imperfection and also accept the fact that no one judges you more than you judge yourself in terms of your life and career performance. And that need practice.

Who didn't have this fear of failure when we were young? But YS's brother showcased his weakness in this drama, he had a very low self-esteem and happened to meet JP as a judge. We all wanted our efforts to be appreciated by someone higher when we were young, wasn't it? Thus, it is supposed to be an opportunity for YS's brother to grow but he chooses to end his life early, unfortunately.

JP certainly needed to do self-reflection and of course he did that in EP12, he cried sadly in front of grandma and blamed himself for being a "bad boy" all these while. As a mentor, he provides guidance and resources, facts and data, but lacks motivation and emotional support to his team, (we all know that because of his past background). I think the writer will make him change to a better mentor in the end. He deserves a happy ending. What is the most satisfying moment for a mentor? It is the final result when the mentees (his team) achieve success once in their lifetime. A self-accomplishment for him, as a mentor.

The story is quite fair, no one is perfect, (not even DM and her grandma), a good and painful lesson learnt for JP and SSTech team, but also a good turning point for them to grow further.

The story has repeated a few times : Follow your dream.  The end result is achieving our dream, but I cherish more on the learning journey be it tangible or intangible one as it brings the impacts in our daily life, especially moving to a digitised world.

 

[rocher22]

 

Thanks to writernim...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dramafan123 Dfan]

Just watch preview for episode 13 and read someone said that Dalmi/samsan tech will develop the proposed self driving car and they name the project Tarzan. Hope this is true.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Dramafan123 Dfan
.

[inBinJinitrust]

Very good two episodes this week, the momentum has been picked up again. Please continue this way and finish on a good note. Then this drama will be an epitome in cheering the inexperienced, lacking, but full of aspiration and resilience YOUTH. Every single character learns many things valuable along their journey  I really appreciate how humane, realistic and relatable the characters are. Can’t really recall any recent project about the youth to be as impressive

 

To those irrational DS haters, yes he is far from your flawless typical/ cliche’ kdrama main lead/ Prince Charming (JP is probably as close to that as possible hence the war...) but perhaps your young hot blooded brother, male friend, boyfriend etc can see a morsel of them in him. The boy’s learning journey is inspiring and I root for him all the way

[rocher22]

 

According to the preview, looks like someone is going to propose Dalmi.

I hope it will be Dosan.

Although its okay if JP does it.

He has the right to try and be rejected.

Then he wont regret anything...

 

TvN

 

 

[gwin]

13 hours ago, EK8 said:

Not understanding all the hate for Do San.  He was always going to end up with Dal Mi.  That’s the way kdramas work.  Nam Joo Hyuk was cast as the male lead.  The male lead always gets the girl.  If you look back in the earlier episodes, Do San asks Dal Mi what she liked about him.  She said the connection through the letters but she also said his hands.  Those are Do San’s hands.  Not something borrowed from Han Ji Pyeong.  This story is about the male lead and female lead developing a real relationship regardless of Dal Mi’s longing through old letters.  Let’s just be happy that Kim Seon Ho’s popularity will catapult his career and will hopefully bring him leading roles in the future where he will get the girl.  I actually love both guys but  Do San was always meant to get the girl.  It was Kim Seon Ho’s acting of Han Ji Pyeong that made him such a lovable underdog.  Let’s be respectful of both actors and love the show for bringing great characters to our tv each week.  

A writer just can't expect her viewers to just swallow an inevitable pairing because they're the lead stars.  The writing of the show has to at least justify why the leads should and would end up together.

 

The problem is that her male lead was written with extremely unlikeable traits, and that problem is compounded when you have the second male lead available as an option.   I get that Dosan is supposed to be a nerd with poor social skills, but it's possible to make such a character endearing and someone you root for.   They didn't need to make him all clingy and jealous and possessive.  They didn't need to make him seem so pathetic by crying over the girl all the time.

 

The writer really did a disservice to the Nam Do San character (and Nam Joo Hyuk as well) by having such a poorly written lead character.   The toxic masculinity of the two male leads fighting over a girl in this day and age is also a turn off.  For once, I wish there's a KDrama where the two males in the love triangle are not portrayed to be toxic and possessive (are we really going back to Heirs circa 2013?), and that the female lead will "choose" not because she's forced upon the choice but because she's actually given the option to choose (seeing both choices for who they really are).

[NerdyAjumma]

27 minutes ago, inBinJinitrust said:

Very good two episodes this week, the momentum has been picked up again. Please continue this way and finish on a good note. Then this drama will be an epitome in cheering the inexperienced, lacking, but full of aspiration and resilience YOUTH. Every single character learns many things valuable along their journey  I really appreciate how humane, realistic and relatable the characters are. Can’t really recall any recent project about the youth to be as impressive

 

To those irrational DS haters, yes he is far from your flawless typical/ cliche’ kdrama main lead/ Prince Charming (JP is probably as close to that as possible hence the war...) but perhaps your young hot blooded brother, male friend, boyfriend etc can see a morsel of them in him. The boy’s learning journey is inspiring and I root for him all the way

 

Very well said!! I really can't stand another polished, prince charming idealized ML. Perfection is boring and mundane, imagine JP's storyline from earlier eps without the dorky Samsan guys, he would just be another pretty face with no personality. 

 

I'm loving this drama and even though things went haywire for the Samsan Tech group, I think it happened for the better. The guys really needed to move on and grow independently, while the girls are more resilient, they, too, can pick themselves up and move on. Can't wait for next week!!

11 minutes ago, gwin said:

A writer just can't expect her viewers to just swallow an inevitable pairing because they're the lead stars.  The writing of the show has to at least justify why the leads should and would end up together.

 

The problem is that her male lead was written with extremely unlikeable traits, and that problem is compounded when you have the second male lead available as an option.   I get that Dosan is supposed to be a nerd with poor social skills, but it's possible to make such a character endearing and someone you root for.   They didn't need to make him all clingy and jealous and possessive.  They didn't need to make him seem so pathetic by crying over the girl all the time.

 

The writer really did a disservice to the Nam Do San character (and Nam Joo Hyuk as well) by having such a poorly written lead character.   The toxic masculinity of the two male leads fighting over a girl in this day and age is also a turn off.  For once, I wish there's a KDrama where the two males in the love triangle are not portrayed to be toxic and possessive (are we really going back to Heirs circa 2013?), and that the female lead will "choose" not because she's forced upon the choice but because she's actually given the option to choose (seeing both choices for who they really are).

I'm not sure how DoSan's pure heart is not endearing enough for the few audience to see his side of the story too. His chemistry with DM, and how those two clicked from the getgo is what makes them a compatible pair.

 

JP is painted like a perfect portrait with a sad, typical upbringing, don't you think that's too cliche and boring? I can give you a dozens of kdrama with the ML similar to JP's background. THIS kdrama for once gives us a normal, relatable experience that some of us went through in life, especially for struggling young professionals. 

[inBinJinitrust]

16 hours ago, gwin said:

A writer just can't expect her viewers to just swallow an inevitable pairing because they're the lead stars.  The writing of the show has to at least justify why the leads should and would end up together.

 

The problem is that her male lead was written with extremely unlikeable traits, and that problem is compounded when you have the second male lead available as an option.   I get that Dosan is supposed to be a nerd with poor social skills, but it's possible to make such a character endearing and someone you root for.   They didn't need to make him all clingy and jealous and possessive.  They didn't need to make him seem so pathetic by crying over the girl all the time.

 

Hi @gwin, nice to see you here after TKEM  I agree that DS is written with many unlikable traits in a typical manner, but I would disagree that he is clingy and not endearing. If he was clingy he would show up outside the girl’s house begging her to get back to him (much like Kim Tan insisted that Eun Sang should be his girlfriend from the beginning of the series despite already having a fiancé himself). But DS understood, accepted the situation and moved on with the guys to “redeem”himself one day in the near future. And I cannot list all the MANY little things he does that are so sweet, so endearing, but can be easily omitted like saving DM a little mandarin or picked up her jacket that she dropped upon leaving her chair, or that time he knitted the RGB sponges for grandma...

 

I get that he is not empathisable by the majority of the public, esp. up until this point where he is still exhibiting immature traits compared to the 2nd ML. The thing is

 

1. he doesn’t just have poor social skills. He may be not very neural typical eg Aspergers which is why it is hard to feel for him since we live in a neuro typical world

 

2. Compared to JP, DS grew up in a very protected environment. JP was forced to be street smart otherwise he couldn’t survive on his own from a very young age. That coupled with the age difference between them would explain why DS seems like a lacking little boy compared against JP. But isn’t this similar to IJ vs DM? To me DM is immature in stubbornly calling out the competition against her elder sister time and time again. By the time she repeated that in ep. 12, I also got annoyed like IJ. 
 

So let’s agree to disagree here. I know I maybe the 1% but I look forward to DS’s growth journey the most. I also think that Joo Hyuk is brave on taking on this role as he would have expected that this character would NOT be popular and that he would collect more anti fans. As a watcher of his career, I feel that perhaps DS’s growth journey is very relatable to him and I cheer on that.

[Sleepy Owl]

@Nymeria289, @cmoirae2 I totally agree with you here. I also feel like Nam Do San is professionally immature, and not something one would expect anyone be professionally. The whole 2STO thing, though he did it because he didn't want a Plan B, but I want to know what would he do if the Plan B was someone else promising to invest if things go south and not Ji Pyeong. 

 

Now forgetting all that, and I don't really care who ends with who and who is better for Dal Mi here. But certain things are not really taught and supposed to be known. I already lost my mind when he smashed that glass nameplate in Chairman Won's office. No matter what that dude said to Dal Mi, what Do San did could not be justified, it was something impulsive, and had Dal Mi not listened to Ji Pyeong and recorded the whole meeting conversation and the one in Chairman Won's office, Samsan Tech would be in trouble. Do San's career would be ruined before it would start and Samsan Tech would be in trouble before they could even start anything. But I kind of decided to let it go since well, I thought things happen sometimes. 

 

But the second time he just punched Ji Pyeong out of no where. And as you said, he could be fired for this and even end up with a criminal record for it. Plus I don't really understand why would Do San vent out his anger on Ji Pyeong while the ones who messed things up were them. Yes Ji Pyeong was saying harsh things, but someone needs to tell you the hard truth, and even Dal Mi asked him that again later that night. They got the contract offer, they either had to review it themselves quite well, they had a lawyer among themselves (I sometimes feel what is Sa Ha's role here) or asked Ji Pyeong's opinion on it, but they didn't do both of them and have to pay for it (although they got paid for it too)

 

Now this is not something which should be taught now to him. This is something he should know, that no matter what, if you act impulsively and actually physically hurt others, it is not something which can be forgiven so easily. So I don't really see it happening from his upbringing. It is something he as a professional, major shareholder should know.

 

 So I really hope he worked on his behavior in this three years time jump. The thing I felt about Samsan Tech guys is that they can't really take criticism, and this thing actually stops one from growing. They just saw Ji Pyeong talking harshly to them and not appreciating them, but Dal Mi actually took his comments seriously and worked on it. This actually differentiates her from the Samsan Tech trio here. And I don't really have an idea what their age is here, but 2 out of 3 of them have actually worked in a professional environment. 

 

Also one of you mentioned Do San's dad protest/comments, and yes to me at least it kind of felt like he was sabotaging In Jae's presentation there. Now I think he didn't do it for his son, I seriously think this wasn't the case, but well, he was there for that. And him kind of changing his stance a bit when his son was mentioned, was natural for me, because we have seen this happen a lot in real life. 

 

Now talking about JP. Firstly I don't really think it is fair to compare him with Do San, since this dude is much older and also more experienced. But this means that they got to listen to him. While the Samsan trio felt he was wrong to tell them that he would not invest in them since he knows they would fail, they didn't really use that anger in the right way. That anger actually kind of ruined things. And well, even Alex and 2STO guys were not interested in their projects, what they wanted was the CODA winners work for them. I really hope this would help them mature up. 

 

About the next week's episode, I don't really what will happen. Did Dal Mi have a change of heart in this three years, did she get closer to Ji Pyeong after knowing more? By the looks of it atleast Ji Pyeong is planning to propose to her. Now I said I don't mind anyone ending up with or even no one ending up with her, but I wouldn't like to see her kind of going out with Ji Pyeong and end up having second thoughts because of Do San's arrival, it would be better if she would not really have feelings for Ji Pyeong than this happening. With 4 episodes remaining, I want to see more of the company stuff happening and not the Love Triangle 2.0 happening. For me it would be better if she would not really end up with anyone

[rocher22]

 

Its really unrealistically shown that they signed that contract.

 

I will leave aside that it was ugly that they didnt ask their mentor for advice.

 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/hashtag/StartUpEp12?src=hashtag_click

[Sleepy Owl]

8 minutes ago, rocher22 said:

Its really unrealistically shown that they signed that contract.

 

I will leave aside that it was ugly that they didnt ask their mentor for advice.

 

Exactly, they didn't even tell him about 2STO wanting to sign a contract with him. What I saw was that whenever they had to listen to him, they didn't do it. 

 

When he gave the advice for shares distribution, Dal Mi did the total opposite of it and gave up being the major shareholder while being the CEO. And then when this happened, they didn't even look at it thoroughly despite having 1 whole day for it. So yes, it was too unrealistic for me that this happened, but it also showed how naive the whole Samsan Tech team was, even Sa Ha who was a lawyer here. 

 

What I also found interesting was the way drama portrayed things. While initially it looked like In Jae was hell bent on saying she was the right one and made the right choice, by the looks of it, it actually was Dal Mi who held on the past too, and maybe more than her. And In Jae's comment on not congratulating meant that she knew what actually had happened between them and 2STO, and I don't think this would happen if 2STO would choose her company. They could take away their developers, as they were quite interested, but could not disband the whole company. But yeah, it was actually interesting to see, that Dal Mi was also still in past and wanted to prove she was the one who was right with her choice. 

 

But it was a good character development for her, to apply for In Jae company. 

[CoffeeMD]

People can ship and like whoever they want. I’ve had my share of SLS too and was too, irrationally emotional over it. The issue I have is the hate against NDS seems to be escalated x1000000. For example, yes, I also did not like that NDS threw the first punch at HJP. It was definitely immature. But this discussion of professionalism and how he should go to jail and how he’s too volatile seems wayy overboard to me. I do not condone violence! But people who are close (and I feel like NDS and HJP have some type of bond now even if they don’t admit it, look how comfortably they sleep) will argue sometime. Say HJP threw the first punch, would this discussion be had? The most flabbergasted thing I saw on a forum for this was someone mentioning they like a small simple thing NDS did, and the response was, well HJP has done so many more things *proceeds to list all the small little things HJP has done*. But both characters have done many small things and sometimes you don’t notice it if you prefer the other character. That’s ok. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. The whole mystery of it all is that a lot of people view NDS as so unlikable that they portray him as essentially a villain. Whether it’s cause of HJP rosy glasses or not but the role of a villain is basically to foil the main character and he’s the main character so. That’s just my perspective on this whole ship.