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[Drama 2020] Do You Like Brahms?, 브람스를 좋아하세요?


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I love this episode so much. It marked the parallels between the struggles of those who started late and others, early in their music careers. 

Song Ah has been criticized by her piano accompanist even though she is trying her best. Sadly the piano accompanist doesn't care. On the other hand, the way Joon Young gives advice to Song Ah with thought and meaning. He even cheers her up.

It doesn't matter where you are professionally...what matters is having a heart-to-heart conversation. Sungjae was not in the position to assume that Song Ah was going to quit music and advise her on what to do after she graduates. Even a suggestion coming from Sungjae doesn't work because he doesn't understand Song Ah. By the way, he's wrong that Song Ah can't beat time. Time flows like the waves of the ocean. It doesn't matter whether you start late or early. What is worse than not starting is not even trying. Not even believing. Song Ah's passion and wisdom will get her through. I love that when Joon Young found out Sungjae met Song Ah he immediately sought for Song Ah and was there for her. Just the simple gesture of holding her hands was more than enough. 

 

The connection between Jung Kyung and the Yang Ji won (the young violin prodigy) was poignant that I even got teary eyed, surprisingly. It's the first time I saw Jung Kyung's weary, cold face soften up because it's probably the first time she found someone she can relate to. And in this situation, she understood what Ji won was going through. It was even touching when Ji won said she will like to play the violin with Jung Kyung. They are just two talented girls whose talent has been taken advantage by professors and moms. For them, when they're so passionate in music, the question would be, "what does success or even happiness mean to them?" Obviously winning competitions isn't it. Looking forward to their development arc. Seriously, the writing is so thoughtful and deep. 

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I think I understand JK now after watching thus far... She loved HH initially and she felt satisfaction dating him... she was the talented wealthy Princess, he was a talented Celloist (even thoug

Hello everyone!!! I would like to give a virtual group hug to this amazing family here. Though it might be a drama but it feels like we have gone through so much together  Really hoping to see our OTP

longer kiss for longer breakup at least         

@nana4ever @ponderings

I like that too, that they don't judge as they share their pains and flaws, not just show their good sides (as Cha Young-in said to JY).Really seriously, the writing and direction are just too good isn't it?  There's no throwaway line or scene, this coming from a writer who studied violin and business :)

 

On JK: I realized this on my re-watching that her mom died on same date as her birthday (there was a grave visit scene with JK & her grandma in  happy bday ep 3, where grandma says JK dad makes it a point to be away at this time of year). Very sad to think that for last 15 years her family does not mark her birthday as well.

 

On SA: I  feel she'll never give up the violin, even if it may mean a "hard life" for her. She may not have a performing career like JY but that she'll find a way to apply to her life the lesson of "harmonics where A, C or F can be in the same voice"  (something like that from lecture scene) :)

 

With the holding hands and intertwining fingers is JY little smile of a contented heart as he kept a sleepipng SA close while on the bus ride home (it's not a bed scene per se but they slept together). Have a fun watch everyone :)

 

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Good morning everyone! Thanks for all the live recaps, gifs and more yesterday. I'll be back after I finish watching ep 11 with subs.

 

Pre-released clip and text preview translations for ep 12:

 
The last one minute of ep 11 needs to be appreciated slowly like a comforting cup of warm tea on a rainy day:
img.gif
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Okay, done watching the episode with subs. Although I did feel happy, as most of you, about their trip and opening up to each other and of course that bus scene was just :fullofhearts:  I can't help but feel a sense of foreboding and a lot of sadness for SA.  It's like the girl just can't catch a break!  And that scene where she was so down while walking home form the university and MS spotted her...man! that was tough!  I wish MS would just go and give her a hug because you can see that she can sense SA's mood but she let her pride take over.  At this point, I can sympathized with JK a bit, she did have a very dysfunctional upbringing.  And this is usually the problem with child genius and prodigy in real life. Pressure to excel all the time that they can not enjoy their childhood.  No wonder JK is kind of losing her touch with the violin.  This is why what SA told the young violinist's mom is really important, but apparently the mom still didn't get it.

 

I do hope SA won't go the noble idiocy route!  I would really hate that cliche and they have been really good in moving away from that tired storyline. But it's like there's a hint of that in the preview because we can already see SA growing pensive and self-conscious with their relationship.

 

@Sky8lue I was about to post the same preview clip. :)  They look so adorable there.

 

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3 hours ago, cherrhys88 said:

Okay, done watching the episode with subs. Although I did feel happy, as most of you, about their trip and opening up to each other and of course that bus scene was just   I can't help but feel a sense of foreboding and a lot of sadness for SA.  It's like the girl just can't catch a break!  And that scene where she was so down while walking home form the university and MS spotted her...man! that was tough!  I wish MS would just go and give her a hug because you can see that she can sense SA's mood but she let her pride take over.  At this point, I can sympathized with JK a bit, she did have a very dysfunctional upbringing.  And this is usually the problem with child genius and prodigy in real life. Pressure to excel all the time that they can not enjoy their childhood.  No wonder JK is kind of losing her touch with the violin.  This is why what SA told the young violinist's mom is really important, but apparently the mom still didn't get it.

 

I do hope SA won't go the noble idiocy route!  I would really hate that cliche and they have been really good in moving away from that tired storyline. But it's like there's a hint of that in the preview because we can already see SA growing pensive and self-conscious with their relationship.

 

@Sky8lue I was about to post the same preview clip. :)  They look so adorable there.

 

Yes I am convinced he's 100% in now...how he's smiling to himself as he's resting his head on hers...awe!  I still have no subs on my end....killing me! I too do also feel sense of dread that all this closeness will just make whatever obstacle you know they're going to face harder if it separates them 

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Thank you for all the clips and gifs of the sweet bus scene.:hooray2: There is really something special about this couple when we all go gaga over the most wholesome scene. :D:wub:  Is it wrong of me to wish that they capped it off with a peck on top of her head? Me thinks that would have been even more heart melting. :fullofhearts:

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They released the video clip in Naver and could they act more lovey dovey ? I mean when these two are dating , i am the only one who feels like butterflies in my stomach. Joon Young with his cheesy line, i thought you were flying. YES HONEY SHE IS YOUR ANGEL :crymeme:

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What a heart-warming episode, just like everyone says.  Going on a trip together,  sharing his childhood's stories, meeting JY's mother, having a heart-to-heart talk, getting more comfortable with each other physically, emotionally, mentally etc.  Hopefully the strength as ONE will help them to face a few more challenges that are coming.

 

 

 

 

 

Since everyone has highlighted our main couple, I would like to highlight a little bit of JK's character in last night's episode.  She does have that "teaching" flair ... that's a ++ point for her (as for her love life .. hmmm.. she still need to work on it.  Hopefully, she'll be able to sort it out ... )

 

Looking forward to the next episode.

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@rozelan I can't agree even more. Song Ah and Joon Young are slowly unfolding themselves and it's such a natural pacing given that they're introverted. Some people might find their atmosphere awkward, but the presence that Song Ah and Joon Young has for each other is so full of awareness and thought, which doesn't lead to a conversation of judgment. The writer is really doing so well. And I love what  she's doing with the characters who don't have a lot of screen time. They're just as important and they give so much impact in the storytelling. 

 

Also, nice catch on the detail that Jung Kyung's mother died on her birthday. This is one of the reasons she doesn't feel loved in her family. Ah!! Maybe that's why she seeks love outside of her family especially from Hyun Ho and Joon Young.

 

2 hours ago, rozelan said:

On SA: I  feel she'll never give up the violin, even if it may mean a "hard life" for her. She may not have a performing career like JY but that she'll find a way to apply to her life the lesson of "harmonics where A, C or F can be in the same voice"  (something like that from lecture scene) :)

^ And this part!!! I just had to quote it because I love how you connected Song Ah's life to the lesson. I can't sum it well but your connection is truly beautiful.

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After watching the subbed preview, i'm glad that JY is perceptive enough and is there to reassure SA about her place in his life. If the preview is to be trusted, I think SA also apologises after realising that she should be confident in her feelings for him and not to mind what others think. 

 

Regarding the twist to SA's character that the writer mentioned, I was thinking how good a fit SA would be for the director's role at Kyunghoo or something like a talent management agency for young musicians. She'd be great at the business side and also has empathy for the struggles musicians go through. I believe being a performer isn't the only way she can pursue a career in the arts. Plus point is that she can work closely with JY. 

 

Another thing that stood out to me was the fact that JY wasn't able to connect to his music. The clinical way Prof yoon expects him to approach competitions really kinda sucks the joy out of it. Coupled with the pressures of maintaining his reputation and supporting his family I totally get why JY is so jaded. Perhaps that's why some say its better to not make a job out of what you love. It's not impossible but it's hard and I envy people who succeed at it. 

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The Myth of Talent and the Finding of Your Career

 

In “Do you like Brahms?” the main character Chae Song Ah is depicted as being at an inflexion point in her career. Should she continue being a violinist despite starting late, underperformance at university and generally receiving feedback that she’s not good at it?

There are several questions that the show sets up, designed to emphasize Song Ah’s dilemma. 1) Does inborn talent determine if you succeed?  2) Can hard work substitute for talent? 3) Is a late start in a new career a disadvantage? 

As I am watching this show and the themes it explores, I feel like I need to chime in and put my researcher hat on to share what people have discovered about talent. I’ll tackle each of these questions, and I hope that by doing so to benefit people who are faced such hard questions in their lives. 

Spoiler

1) Does inborn talent determine if you succeed? In many ways, this is the easiest myth to bust. Ericsson and Pool, authors of “Peak: Secrets from the new Science of Expertise”, hold that, with the exception of height and body size, the idea that we are limited by genetic factors—innate talent—is a pernicious myth. “The belief that one’s abilities are limited by one’s genetically prescribed characteristics....manifests itself in all sorts of ‘I can’t’ or ‘I’m not’ statements,” Ericsson and Pool write. The key to extraordinary performance, they argue, is “thousands and thousands of hours of hard, focused work.” 

These aren’t the only scientists to point out the value of hard work and attitude. In her bestseller book, Grit, Angela Lee Duckworth describes her decades of research into the psychology of successful people. Her main finding? Success takes courage, resilience, detail, a commitment to excellence and endurance in pain. No mention of talent anywhere. 

 

2) Hence, we also tackle question #2 “Can hard work substitute for talent?” To me, what Duckworth’s research shows is that if there must be a talent, it would be the talent to know yourself, one of the most ignored intelligences of Gardner’s 8 intelligences. Intrapersonal intelligence helps you to know when to push, when to rest, when to keep going and how to keep going. Yes, talent in your chosen profession will certainly boost you, but those who focus too much on talent tend to ignore the mundane and almost too simple power of endurance and hard work when developing a difficult skill into an expertise. 

So I think that it could be true that hard work does not substitute for talent, but the research says that it is equally true that talent does NOT substitute for hard work. 

But you might say, what about those at the very top, the very, very top? Aren’t they talented? Well, yes. And if you think the definition of success means being the top, the very, very top, you might be right.  However, if your definition of success means “good at your job”, “paid for it”, “love what you do”, and “what the world needs”, then everything I’ve already pointed out is what you need to be successful. The point here is that while there may be only one Taylor Swift, there are also legions of fans for performers who cannot be Taylor Swift, nor aspire to be her. Substitute Ms. Swift with any favourite celebrity you want, the statement remains true. That’s because there are many forms of success and an infinite combination of skills that are needed for each success. 

In fact, the Japanese concept of Ikigai is exactly what I’ve just described. The sweet spot of success lies in a combination of passion, profession, vocation, and mission. What do you love? What drives you? What can you get paid for? What has meaning for you?

As you can see by now, laying out what “being good at something” means has been done many times, in many ways. The real difficulty lies in answering these 4 questions!

Which brings us full circle to the storyline of “Do You Like Brahms?” That the show is titled with a question mark alone should be a hint that it’s about a journey of discovery. The answer is likely, I don’t know, do I? As in the early episodes, when Song Ah gently corrects Joon Young as to what she asked him - not what other people liked but did he like his performance - so should we also be on that search to ask - What do I like about what I am doing?

 

3) Which brings me to the last question: “Is a late start in a new career a disadvantage?” Yes, Song Ah certainly cannot put in the same number of hours her starting-from-childhood peers have. Even if she has unusual tenacity, her runway is probably shorter than others before age starts to erode her dexterity. 

On the other hand, some level of maturity makes it easier to answer the questions of self-knowledge that the Ikigai lists. And we’ve already seen evidence of an unusual amount of maturity even among those older than her - Song Ah asks the right questions, she says the right things to make people stop and reflect, she knows and tries to do right by her principles, and she knows herself and her unfailing devotion to music. 

Right now, she certainly is struggling, since the naysayers are (particularly) plentiful in this drama. But sometimes all you need is few people to believe in you. She’s got that from her father, Joon Young, and Ms Ahn. 

Popular culture is littered with people who started “late”. Oprah Winfrey and JK Rowling are some you might have heard of. Each of them kept at it, and they were ready when the opportunity presented itself. 

 

So I hope this gives you courage. I hope that Chae Song Ah’s story, backed up by the data I bring together here, will encourage you to keep finding yourself, and your place in the world. 

 

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@mywebfoot thank you for your insights. I especially love this "In fact, the Japanese concept of Ikigai is exactly what I’ve just described. The sweet spot of success lies in a combination of passion, profession, vocation, and mission. What do you love? What drives you? What can you get paid for? What has meaning for you?" And I think this is essentially what the drama is trying to show by highlighting each of our musicians' struggles. Because it is true that not everyone is born with extraordinary talent but talent without passion and hard work will just be useless in the long run and might even become just a burden. Which also leads me to what @debbsthebee have posted about JY. I think when he was a child he really loved the piano and was even passionate about it but it has become a burden because of all the pressures he experienced and still experiencing.

 

I saw this post regarding episode 12. JY might offer to play the piano for SA??  Hmmm...on one hand this will really show the depth of  JY's feelings for SA but what will this do to SA's inner conflict?  If this is true, it will be interesting to see how this will unfold.

credit to the owner

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@rukizie i watched online only. Had a few problems with ads but finally managed to watch it. This episode was hard on SA but still very sweet on Dimple couple. I hope SA accepts his offer this time around or is this before/after the umbrella scene in the preview? Maybe she rejects him again and apologizes..

 

——

 

i have a very bad feeling that the reason JY’s mom is crying is due to another health problem that we may not know..or his dad collecting another debt. Oh boy..

 

Professor Lee is really..she shouldn’t be Dean in the future. She isn’t professional enough. Power and recognition hungry. She is bad. SA, please push her aside. She isn’t helping you. And that pianist you have..toss her out too. She is so rude and disrespectful.  She ain’t helping either.
 

:kicks:

 

I actually feel bad for JK in this episode. Oh man..she grew up in a fame-attention grabber family too. So much pressure on a six yr old kid to play the violin for hours. She actually is really good at advising when it comes to music, like she did with the girl. 
 

SJ..this man..all i can say is “kick him” repeatedly!!

He is..I don’t even know the word right now.

 

:onfirex:

 

It is sad to see MS still ignoring SA. She still blames SA but fails to see her fault too. Shame.

 

But Dimples couple still makes my heart flutter even with this episode so heavy on SA. Their hands holding, smiles and even date alone. JY loves her so much and we can see it in the bus scene..

 

i love that scene, second to the confession scene! He is so smitten by SA. How he smiles and leans on her to sleep too.. i was smiling along with him. So sweet!!

 

:omg:

 

 

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Thank you for the live recaps @rukizie and @Jillia :)

 I watched the episode un subbed yesterday and found myself going back to SA and JY's interactions in episode 3 and 4.. 

 

As Joon Yong is hugging her, we hear her narrative saying that him offering music and his actions before words makes her believe that no matter how much it hurts she will continue to keep loving.. 

Now, she has not just him comforting embrace but also his hands to hold on to for strength, his shoulders to rest her head on at the end of a long day and his lips to search for love and desire and of course his sunshine smile to light up her cloudy days..I think SA will keep loving the violin and JY no matter how hurt she is by what others say though perhaps she has moments where she doubts it..

After SA's birthday dinner, when they are talking by the stream JY tells her that there's something called too much in love to and to give love in sufficient amounts next time.. he perhaps realises that he can't really help how much he can love and with SA there's perhaps nothing like too much love or too much to give.. 

Untill he finds a way to make a world with just the two of them, her violin, his piano so that he can play Bach, Mozart and Beethoven for her and symphonies of their own and perhaps some palace grounds to take walks on.. he will continue to choose to be there for her and fall even more in love with her I guess..

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What is it with this show that a pair of hands holding n intertwining makes my heart flutters and brings a warmth to my soul for hours after watching it? (there wasn't even a kiss, they did not even stay overnight... was I from the gutter??.. PDnim, pls a kiss tonite??)

Love how he saw her need for company on the trip to Dajeon (spelling?) and put aside every other non-important person (you hear me, JK!) to go with her... My heart skipped a beat when they first showed his broad shoulders, before confirming that he caught up with her on the bus. So cute that he was panting when he sat down... hv you been running n rushing in case you missed your darling?? hehehe

Love how she saw his mom's desire for them to stay on for dinner. Agree, how heartless of him, all the way home and you had to bump into your mom BY chance? Granted you have a rocky relationship w your mom n dad, it is an impromptu trip, so it was not in the plans to meet the parent, but when your mom tell ask you to stay for dinner, you STAY for dinner! SA is a such a lovely person... 

Just give me the whole hour of JY n SA, I really cannot stand the rest of the pple.. but for this two, I'll stay on this show.
 

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Omo omooo!! How can a scene of lovers holding hand could make us all swoon like this??? That scene in the bus, is totally swoon-worthy. Finally, a scene where JY and SA don't act like an old-fashioned couple, tee hee. Not that us complaining with that all old-fashioned courtnership. 


Speaking of which, did anyone notice in the earlier episode when JY and SA talk about how SA was thinking about changing her Franck Sonata into another piece bcs she think she wouldn't have play it well? I notice SA insecurities while she reading too much into JY answer. 

JY : "there are pieces that don't feel like my own. I desperately want to make them mine, but they're that much harder. so I went to flee and play something easier. But even if you run away, it doesn't change anything. The thirst for the piece you let go only increases, and eventually, you feel tormented and miss it. 

SA : Is that reluctance to give up?

JY : Reluctance.. perhaps." 

Idk if it's just me. But they were having that convo after SA witness how well played JK with JY and they were playing the exact piece for her exam. So, reading too much into SA expression, i just wondering if JY's answer make SA afraid is that JY feel toward his unrequited love for JK? But girlll, lookkk at howww JY show us all that's what a nice boyfriend will act.

TBH, don't get me wrong, but from the very first episode, this is the episode that makes me believe that JY truly love SA. He truly cherish her, he is grateful that she's there beside him. This episode. Not even the confession scene/kiss scene/ or any scene, thisss episode, and to be exact, that bus scene, that makes me 100% sure that JY is totally in love with SA. No doubt. Period. 

But, behold! I hope it's not the calm before the storm. And if there's any storm (we all know that we will get one, sooner or later), I hope it's not JK's storm. Reading into the writer interview, it hints that it's not easy to letting go of the past love, but this drama capture the process of moving on from the past love into the new one. 

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