[Drama 2020] Itaewon Class, 이태원 클라쓰

[ponderings]

On 3/15/2020 at 4:58 AM, Kimsungrin said:

 

Exactly! We all have a choice, and Soo ah had a choice. 

 

But again, for me she chose Jangga. I think she is the only one who thinks she is torn...she made her choice when she accepted financial help from Jangga.

 

I love how you described Soo Ah's character and how she feels! I quoted my favorite parts in how you phrased her way of living which is choosing Janga. There's such a paradox as you stated. She thinks she's torn but she already made her choice! She hasn't accepted herself!! 

[alexaze]

I'll admit that this show had so much potential in the beginning. The characters and their motivations felt so real. But after awhile SRY, SA and YS just devolved into typical kdrama characters. Now I don't think the show is bad it's just a little disappointing considering how amazing it could've been

[serenilmauve]

5 hours ago, alexaze said:

I'll admit that this show had so much potential in the beginning. The characters and their motivations felt so real. But after awhile SRY, SA and YS just devolved into typical kdrama characters. Now I don't think the show is bad it's just a little disappointing considering how amazing it could've been

Typical in what regard?;) Can you be more specific. I’m curious. Because what I see, that neither of them actually changed much. Expect Jo Yi Seo learning how to care and show that to people, that she cares about. Which is a needed and pivotal character progression, because it was her flaw. 

———

Also I’m not sure people actually understand the point of Oh Soo Ah, if they expect her to have “progression” beyond what she is. Why you expected her to go further than what she is, because she had everything going on to her? Smart, pretty, with good education and right “realistic” attitude to life? But the thing is all that exactly the reasons why she stuck in one place in her life. She is not moving or progressing, because she is afraid of that. Having dreams of good job, nice car and her own house are typical for most of us. But if you choose them, while sacrificing everything else, most of the time you’re bond to stuck in one place and for a very long time. That’s the actual reality of most salaryman. It’s not bad in retrospective. “Realistic” character just had her very realistic progression.

 

Also Sae Roy spend 7 years working hard labor work. It’s not nothing, considering that was actual fundament for his business. He had idea, how to run a pub and needed knowledge, but no actual experience and taste how to do so. And as any businessman and CEO, he used a people, who  was ready to help him for money and personal reasons, when he met that people. I’m not exactly sure, that some people know how businessman run their business and if you ever read some biographies of rich people. A lot of them not only about having right idea in right time, but also meeting right people in right moment.

 

@dvoran Some of people who criticize IC so strongly (by creating new accounts none the less, to tell us specifically how bad it is, hmmm) for some reasons always use Oh Soo Ah. Which also sometimes reminds me, that problem might be not really in the writer and his style, but in the viewers themselves if they think that she should have some big redemption ark. Or that Park Sae Roy out of all characters need “redemption”. Sticking with Jangga because he is the easiest character to understand since all he does is being petty old man obsessed by his “achievements”, I guess yes is the most right thing;))

[sodarn]

36 minutes ago, serenilmauve said:

Typical in what regard?;) Can you be more specific. I’m curious. Because what I see, that neither of them actually changed much. Expect Jo Yi Seo learning how to care and show that to people, that she cares about. Which is a needed and pivotal character progression, because it was her flaw. 

———

Also I’m not sure people actually understand the point of Oh Soo Ah, if they expect her to have “progression” beyond what she is. Why you expected her to go further than what she is, because she had everything going on to her? Smart, pretty, with good education and right “realistic” attitude to life? But the thing is all that exactly the reasons why she stuck in one place in her life. She is not moving or progressing, because she is afraid of that. Having dreams of good job, nice car and her own house are typical for most of us. But if you choose them, while sacrificing everything else, most of the time you’re bond to stuck in one place and for a very long time. That’s the actual reality of most salaryman. It’s not bad in retrospective. “Realistic” character just had her very realistic progression.

 

Also Sae Roy spend 7 years working hard labor work. It’s not nothing, considering that was actual fundament for his business. He had idea, how to run a pub and needed knowledge, but no actual experience and taste how to do so. And as any businessman and CEO, he used a people, who  was ready to help him for money and personal reasons, when he met that person. I’m not exactly sure, that some people know how businessman run their business and if you ever read some biographies of rich people. A lot of them not only about having right idea in right time, but also meeting right people in right moment. 

Nicely put! Couldn't have said it better.

[tok-soompi]

What is typical kdrama character?

 

@dvoran, i have to disagree with you regarding watching the drama in a whole till now.  but that is your opinion and many people can have their own opinion.  I am just amused that the opinion can be so different from how i understood the drama.  Interesting.  No worries, It happens alots in other dramas that i watched with different opinions of the show.

 

I love and enjoyed the drama so far and the characters written and with some enhancement when reading comments here that make me understand certain scenes even better.

 

Long text thus whoever hate reading can stop here already. 

 

SRY is someone with strong principles of righteous since young.  He does not believe he needs to repay by anyone just because he is helping anyone in justice.  Therefore we see he does not have any friend when he is young but he always have people around.  He definitely can be a very good policeman if he did not end up in jail.  But this attribute may not be a great businessman if he strictly stick to this mindset.  He is too straight.

 

SA since young has to fight her way to achieve with what she wants without parental guidance.  Thus she already developed a no sorry, no free food, self driven mindset.  That is the reason her reacted to the beggar and no help from SRY to exam.  She is not like SRY who has righteous mindset meaning she may disagree the long term GW behaviour but she will never stand up or try something to help.  She is a hardworking and smart gal, thus no issue of taking her exams to a good college.

 

SY is a person who is so smart that whatever she do she will excel.  When she is young, she is very competitive, so much so that she is ruthless when she want to achieve something.  She is even baffled by her mum supporting, acepting and willing to nurture this behaviour.   But she eventually find her life meaningless and aimless.  She can easily achieve in education, good job, maybe a own home and car easily if she wants to.  But what is the meaning of that in life for her?  She shrug and find it boring. 

 

SRY is attracted by SA independence.  But she is way too independent and SRY is too respectful with that independence that crack their bonding.  SA did not really by SRY side for 2 years then 7 years later.  SRY also did not give SA any chance to be closer when he decided to go straight to deep sea fishing to earn his gold for his little pub straight after he is out of jail.  Their relationship becomes very lukewarm as SRY respect SA and SA is not willing to let go her career to support SRY.  She is smart and she knows how to do marketing and strategy.  Well educated.  How can she be any less incompetent that SY?  Definitely not.  But as a potential girlfriend for SRY, did she even try to do anything more proactive?  No.  She remain in her comfort zone.

 

SY is always rude when she wants something.  As "rude" as shower her loves to the one she crazily love everyday.  Its her flaw and her character.  I rewatched the earlier episode when she wanted GS to take her to clubbing.  She is soooo rude and "ruthless" for common viewer.  She literary just sat in his bike, kick his helmet to the ground to rush him to be quick and the way she uses her helmet to headbutt his head when he almost killed her is just OUCH.  But that is her.  Rash and straightforward when it comes to what she wants.  She strongly believed her bulldozing way will get her love too (same as GS).  She is very scared that she will be hurt.  But she just love SRY too much and too singleminded in devoting him to give up.  It maybe uncomfortable to many but hey, she is single, he is single and he never even want her out of dambam.

 

So much so it really feels like SRY uses SY.  As he is well aware that whatever he has work hard for his pub he still does not have the flair to make his pub attractive to customers.  Then with luck, a smart business talented person come to him.  It feels like angel / advisor has appeared finally to give him a hand to give him a push.  He knows for an instance he really needs her as he is a "stupid" and "slow" boss and the enemy he is fighting is huge.

 

The only thing SRY feels badly is his betrayal heart.  He suppose to like SA.  But his heart just keep moving towards SY.  SY is his business partner.  By principle, he should not mix with romance and work.  Moreover GS has always like SY way before he knows them and thus it feels like he is "snatching" GS girl, cheating GS.  SY is also so young!  How can he likes her as love interest.  Like SK and SY mentioned... he had many excuses.  Does all these excuses really should be the reason he should not love SY??

 

That is why i am so emotional after he had his "Q&A".  His heart is all filled with SY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[serenilmauve]

 

Making film ep.13

 

[dvoran]

@greenwatch08 Noted on your valid breakdown - in fact I totally agree with you, just that the way the story pans out is less than ideal. My gripe isn't with why the characters do what they did, but why the characters are written that way when much of it could be explored with better depth. Then again, that's my flaw for thinking it could be "better". Perhaps I was led on to believe SR's "love" and resolution for SA to quit Jangga was as full of conviction as revenge for his father. They did share a deep history after all. Especially in the scene where he shouted from outside the bus to her. Then [after a few episodes], he realises he loves YS. As a scriptwriter, my point of view is that that doesn't align with his unchanging principles. In technical character development terms, it's cramming a lot of deliberate drama into an arc that's already crowded - with YS and the chairman's son. And this is where I feel @alexaze is right - it's become just a typical kdrama.

@serenilmauve you are absolutely right too, if many people love the writer's writing style, then it's just those of us who think that the main characters should have a redemption arc has a problem  Coming from a technical writing background, I strongly believe protagonists, deuteragonists and tritagonists should have a satisfactory development and redemption arc (where satisfactory is highly subjective of course).

No matter - as they say, it ain't over till the fat lady sings - 2 more episodes to go 

[dvoran]

@tok-soompi oh i didn't see your post coming as I was writing my latest. Hope my short post addresses some points you wrote about too ))

[atlss]

7 minutes ago, dvoran said:

@greenwatch08 Noted on your valid breakdown - in fact I totally agree with you, just that the way the story pans out is less than ideal. My gripe isn't with why the characters do what they did, but why the characters are written that way when much of it could be explored with better depth. Then again, that's my flaw for thinking it could be "better". Perhaps I was led on to believe SR's "love" and resolution for SA to quit Jangga was as full of conviction as revenge for his father. They did share a deep history after all. Especially in the scene where he shouted from outside the bus to her. Then [after a few episodes], he realises he loves YS. As a scriptwriter, my point of view is that that doesn't align with his unchanging principles. In technical character development terms, it's cramming a lot of deliberate drama into an arc that's already crowded - with YS and the chairman's son. And this is where I feel @alexaze is right - it's become just a typical kdrama.

@serenilmauve you are absolutely right too, if many people love the writer's writing style, then it's just those of us who think that the main characters should have a redemption arc has a problem  Coming from a technical writing background, I strongly believe protagonists, deuteragonists and tritagonists should have a satisfactory development and redemption arc (where satisfactory is highly subjective of course).

No matter - as they say, it ain't over till the fat lady sings - 2 more episodes to go 

I have to agree with @dvoran

 

What most of you have said to explain the motivations and at the actions thus far (yeah we still have 2 eps, so who knows!) make complete sense. What was cognitively dissonant to me was the incongruence of that bus scene (damn, he had fire making such a bold statement) to his rather abrupt change of heart (the way it was written) via what I see as repeated verbal coercion by YS  - it is one to be steadfast, it is quite another to be borderline harassing (can you imagine doing something like that at work/it being done to you at work). 

 

It would have been way more believable (& refined? guess this is subjective) if the writers had solely let her actions come through - which keeps within her character build-up of a multi-talented genius with a kick-richard simmons "i'll show it to you" fervour which was on display as they introduced her. The verbal expressions of love were unnecessary. SRY could have come to this point realising the depth of her commitment and devotion just by her actions and overhearing her conversation with MHY at the hospital.

 

While the above could have worked, I'd like to throw the spotlight on SA.The sizzle-down writing of SA's character after such a satisfying build-up in the first 10 eps or so is probably my source of dissatisfaction. Here we have the writers introduce such a complex, real character with excruciating detail - opening metro scene showcasing her thoughts on self-reliance, her affection to SRY's father, her decision to call the cops on SRY as he went after GW (for his long-term greater good, very pragmatic), her rationality through all her actions (survival) and finally, that scene where she carried that horrible plant where he was battling the derailment of the JM investment showcasing her pragmatic approach to all things business and personal... and now, seemingly reduced to a too-bad-so-sad-you-chose-wrong crying character is just fish out of water for her . She's an influential, strong woman. Even if she finally has to face the consequences of her pragmatism (i.e. what you all have said, she'll feel empty), the writing needs to support that journey. 

 

I do hope they consider her arc better in the remaining 2 episodes because with all that she has been portrayed, she could do more. 

 

Like GS's arc, that has been well-fleshed out.

 

By the way - all the above focuses on the WRITING of this drama. Not taking anything away from the explanations of why the events in the drama have panned out this way.

 

In this respect, my humble opinion after 14 episodes is - had so much promise, but with the way it's been written in recent episodes, not very different from the regular k-writing formulae.

 

I hope the writers have more great tricks up their sleeves in the concluding episodes to make this a truly different drama, but this late in the series? My hopes are not up.

 

Also - yes I just created the account to respond to all of this (never thought I'd be a forum contributor but hey K-drama drives you crazy in a good way). Emerged from the silent shadows of forum reader and trying my hand at k-drama forum critique.

 

Keep the perspectives coming!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[serenilmauve]

11 hours ago, dvoran said:

@serenilmauve you are absolutely right too, if many people love the writer's writing style, then it's just those of us who think that the main characters should have a redemption arc has a problem  Coming from a technical writing background, I strongly believe protagonists, deuteragonists and tritagonists should have a satisfactory development and redemption arc (where satisfactory is highly subjective of course).

No matter - as they say, it ain't over till the fat lady sings - 2 more episodes to go 

 

That’s not what I wrote. I wrote, that problem may lay not in the writer, but you fundamentally misunderstanding the message he is conveying though a character. And your own understanding or expectations of what kind of resolution should character have may be vastly different from what writer has in mind. Does it make writer wrong because you put your own “expectations” and “wishes” upon the character? No. The thing about writing and as a person with “technical background in writing” you should understand it very well, that unless you write your character straightforward as a one line, without adding layers to enrich them (be it unlikable or likable traits) people trend to interpret them differently according to their own believes, experience, expectation, education and etc. That’s why some massive acclaimed work in movies, dramas and books have big number of different interpretations of the same characters. There will be a time, when you will try to convey certain type of messages and traits by using your characters, but people will (mis)interpret  them their own way. And voice their dissatisfaction with your “arc of redemption” or character progression. But it will not make your view wrong in any way though.  
Also, sorry for being rude, but you having “technical background” in writing also basically means nothing in our discussion. Because first of all I have no experience with your work and I have no idea how good or bad you’re in your own craft to put any value on your words in that regard and second of all to interpret art and work of writers you don’t need to have that kind of experience. It’s not engineering, so please, don’t try to use it as a leverage next time when you make arguments. Because with how your wrote it sounded to me, like you’re trying to do so. Sorry, if I’m wrong. Thank you anyway.

[Alice Wonderland]

Just read this... Park Bo Gum wiill be cameon IC's final!! Whoah... is this part of the surprise ending the writer ever told before???

 

 

I'm curious what role he gets here, so excited!

https://www.soompi.com/article/1388514wpp/park-bo-gum-confirmed-to-make-cameo-in-itaewon-class-finale

[Helena]

JTBC PLUS | 2020. 03. 16. 7:07 PM

Author Gwang Jin, biggest beneficiary from success of ''Itaewon Class''

 

 

The drama ''Itaewon Class'' will likely to end in 2 episodes. The highest viewership rating the drama has ever recorded was 16.2% in episode 10 (based on the standard of household in metropolitan areas, according to Nielsen Korea) and the highest ratings of the target audience also hit 8.7 %. The work is rocking the small screen when taking the top spot as the most buzzworthy drama. All actors including Park Seo Joon, Kim Dami, Yoo Jae Myung, Kwon Nara, Ahn Bo Hyun, etc. reaped benefits through ''Itaewon Class''. However, it can be said that the biggest beneficiary from the drama is writer Gwang Jin - the author of the original work and scriptwriter of the drama. He has made a success from the webtoon version to drama.
 
The author Gwang Jin debuted in 2013 with webtoon "Her Aquarium" of Lezhin Comics. His typical work is "Itaewon Class" completed in 2018 on Daum. This is a story of the rebellion of young people gathered together by stubbornness and recklessness in an absurd society, the process of the main character Park Sae Ro Yi building a career with his own values in the small street of Itaewon - a miniature version of the world. The series earned over 200 million cumulative views and achieved a 9.9 review score. Through "Itaewon Class", Gwang Jin has risen to become a star webtoon author.
 
It is absolutely not an easy decision for a well-known author star in the webtoon circle to challenge in the role of a scriptwriter in a drama. If he has only a little negligence, there is a high risk of affecting the reputation that he has built up during the past time. In fact, this is not the path chosen by many famous webtoon authors. However, author Gwang Jin was determined to collaborate with the persuasion of director Kim Sung Yoon. More than anyone, the author is the one who understands the original the most and focuses on the emotional flows of the characters, those who once left regrets for readers in the webtoon. Jo Gang Jin then made efforts to show these emotions in more detail and highlight the strengths of the original. Thanks to that, the current "Itaewon Class" could be released.
 
The success of the drama has brought a positive influence to the author Gwang Jin. As the curiosity for the end of the movie increased, the audience naturally interested in the original webtoon. In fact, after an episode of "Itaewon Class" ended, keywords like "The end of Itaewon Class webtoon", "Webtoon Itaewon Class", etc. also climbed up the real-time keyword search rankings of web portal. Besides, author Gwang Jin is also running an eatery named "Kkulbam" which has just reopened before the first episode aired. That's the reason why the name "Kkilbam" is changed to "Danbam" in the drama. In addition, webtoon "Itaewon Class" is being uploaded even in China. The current work of author Gwang Jin namely "Linkboy" also receives passionate responses. In other words, he is demonstrating his solid position in the main field and in his challenging field.
 
A representative in the drama industry said, "There will be no harm to the career of a successful webtoon author who wants to try expanding their career to the drama field. But many people are hesitated to try out with drama because they are already getting quite high royalties. However, author Gwang Jin decided to challenge and the results brought success to him. Therefore, he is the one who is happier than anyone else at the success of the drama."

 

Reporter Hwang So Young hwang.soyoung@jtbc.co.kr
Everything Idol, Everyday Exclusive
https://vtoday.vlive.tv/home

[AsveriaPSJ]

Should I use my own “I’m also trained writer” card too  Also, I agree with @serenilmauve that unless someone somehow has experience with your work it’s pretty useless peace of information)) Just because you also a scriptwriter doesn’t mean you automatically better at judging scripts. I personally think that it’s also actually a con, rather than a pro. Because “scriptwriters” trend to judge peace of work by “I would’ve done it my way” even unconsciously, which is not something to be proud of as my teacher used to say 

Also, I read all criticism and while I can see where some of them coming from somehow most of the “problems” come across, in my eyes and opinion, with also mostly “I wanted it to be that way” type of baggage rather than actual deep character interpretation and judgement how they act inside the story, around the other characters and based on who they’re as a characters, rather who they were in your expectations and were you thought things would lead them. Like for example we have here “it become typical” opinions without actually pointing out specifically how it used to different and how it become typical. It’s hard that way to understand and relate to what you even mean. As well as a lot of those said “criticism” could’ve been easily resolved if people didn’t try to see characters as “clean” and did understand that flaws in them do exist. 
And because I do feel like that one statement was unfair and I disagree with it, I would like to say, that there is a lot of great/good k-dramas and Itaewon Class definitely one of them. I had a lot of expectations about it, because I followed it even before premiere without knowing much about the story and characters. And it met almost all my expectations  

[Clark Kent]

1 hour ago, serenilmauve said:

 

 

Agree with everything you wrote.  Also, it is tad bit disingenuous to say that he changed his mind in a few episode.  He made the declaration to SA in episode 6 but realized his love for YS in episode 14.  Not to mention 4 years in drama time has passed by for him to assess his own feeling.

 

Anyway here is my interpretation regarding what the writer is trying to convey regarding RY's love life.  He is trying to show that the great RY is also a flawed character.  His unchanging principle can sometime be detrimental to his career and love life.  In regard to career, he stubbornly refuse the help of Toni's grandma until Miss Kang (even freedom come with a cost)and YS spoke some sense into him.  Now, let me elaborate on his love life, and I start with his declaration of love toward OS.

 

 

Regarding that promise to OS, he felt guilty for doubting her and putting her in a situation where she felt sad and guilty toward him.  He wants to free her from that pain.  Even though none of that is his fault, but that is the kind of guy RY is.  It is very believable that RY can have a changed of heart.  His feeling for OS isn't build on a strong foundation.  He spent most of his adult life in jail, the factory, and a fishing boat.  After his dad's death, they met once at Itaewon and again 7 years later.  Like his feeling for her was frozen in time, and it never progress since neither party want to take the next step.  It slowly melted away with the passage of time.

 

There are numerous reason why he fell for the Wildcat.  Beside his father, SK, HJ, and HY, nobody really believe in him including SA.  Here come this 20 year old girl who threw away her future just to work for him.  In addition to her brilliance in business and marketing, she bet her future on him, and it truly touched him.  This is why he selfishly kept her by his side.  In return for his selfish act and  her blind faith in him, he slowly opened up to her about his past. I truly think the moment he has romantic feeling for her is when she was laying on his lap crying due to the physical and emotional pain he had endured up till now.  He couldn't believe that someone could shed a tear for his struggle like that.  This is why he would also have emotional outburst toward YS and rebuke her whenever she disappointed him.  He would say that she should be on his side, but notice that he doesn't expect this from SA.  Which is why he can't think of Danbam (aka his life) without her.  The wildcat was able to worm her way into RY heart slowly without him fully realizing it.  RY is a very perceptive guy, so I feel like he already know that YS had feeling for him even before the rejection.  However, he can never reciprocate that feeling and did his best to repress any feeling for her by creating all sort of excuses.  He didn't want to go against his principle by breaking his promise to SA, betraying a friend like GS, and being 10 years older than her.  His unchanging principle which was one of his strongest attribute was also his roadblock to being happy.  That is why he said in the latest episode, he truly did have a regret.  He should have followed his heart.  That is why I think RY and YS are meant for each other, they are each other ying and yang.  RY helped changed YS to be a better person by being less selfish and try to have a little more empathy for those around her  Meanwhile, YS helped change RY into believing you can be selfish sometime and placed your own personal happiness over your principle.  She is the one that can bring those sweet night that he longed for.  Just my two cents.

[emollienime]

want to see example of how opinion about character can be different vastly from viewer to viewer?i never saw oh sooah as a “strong woman”,for me in my own perspective she always was a more of a weak one.if anything the only true strong woman in my eyes is ma hyunyi because she wasn’t afraid to be herself in very close minded society and was rewarded for her boldness.while being”silent endurer”can be a strong trait,oh sooah don’t fall into that category.she never even once suffered in jangga for her work,just like she never suffered for love with park saeroy.

as for his declaration on bus station,which also partially happened with his inner hate for jangga(because he thought she is suffering because of him),4 years passed since then.he experienced some stuff,grew up,developed diffirent kind of bond and feeling with another woman(which didn’t happen 7 years ago).and let me point out it all happened on screen.overall he hold his wishes for almost 15 years and never heard anything from her except”say you still like me”.i do think he deserves to move on from that kind of relationship to someone who treasures him and openly expresses her emotions and adoration,without putting him”on pause”.is it sexual harassment?probably.but then sae roy does have a power and choice to fire her any moment.she doesn’t hold power over him in anyway.she is competent worker,but that is not why he holds her tight.he used to hold people that were even less competent,but who means a lot to him.and on the rooftop they had verbal agreement,that the moment he gets to uncomfortable with her feelings,he can fire her.the thing is he never come to that point in their life,because he secretly felt good about it.just didn’t know how to react and run from his own emotions due to restrictions society and his own principles put on him.she is younger(age),she is his employee(job,partner),he declared his love for someone else(don’t break your first love’s heart) and someone else likes her(and maybe one day she will like him back too/gunsoo).

her real sexual harassment moment was when she kissed him drunk.which is also a point.she was drunk,young,she made mistake.and then writer even put exactly same words with a law quote in her mouth as a hardcore irony.

[tok-soompi]

@Clark Kent, your passage very true and thanks also to highlight this important part:

This is why he would also have emotional outburst toward YS and rebuke her whenever she disappointed him.  He would say that she should be on his side, but notice that he doesn't expect this from SA.  Which is why he can't think of Danbam (aka his life) without her. 

 

It reminds me the major outburst regarding GS and later SA took SY for a talk.  It clearly also informed us why SA not supporting SRY because she does not understand him.  And her practical head cannot accept how he runs his business.

 

 

[lollyminx]

36 minutes ago, Clark Kent said:

Anyway here is my interpretation regarding what the writer is trying to convey regarding RY's love life.  He is trying to show that the great RY is also a flawed character.  His unchanging principle can sometime be detrimental to his career and love life.

Oooh I agree with this. This also shows in his influence on Geunsoo. Geunsoo turned out that way because of Saeroyi. I remember in one episode, Geunsoo said something like everyone is pursuing their goals aggressively not caring about others, so he would too. This shows that while Saeroyi's determined nature can be a good influence to some, it can also negatively influence others. 

[platinumbeauty]

54 minutes ago, Clark Kent said:

Agree with everything you wrote.  Also, it is tad bit disingenuous to say that he changed his mind in a few episode.  He made the declaration to SA in episode 6 but realized his love for YS in episode 14.  Not to mention 4 years in drama time has passed by for him to assess his own feeling.

 

Anyway here is my interpretation regarding what the writer is trying to convey regarding RY's love life.  He is trying to show that the great RY is also a flawed character.  His unchanging principle can sometime be detrimental to his career and love life.  In regard to career, he stubbornly refuse the help of Toni's grandma until Miss Kang (even freedom come with a cost)and YS spoke some sense into him.  Now, let me elaborate on his love life, and I start with his declaration of love toward OS.

 

 

Regarding that promise to OS, he felt guilty for doubting her and putting her in a situation where she felt sad and guilty toward him.  He wants to free her from that pain.  Even though none of that is his fault, but that is the kind of guy RY is.  It is very believable that RY can have a changed of heart.  His feeling for OS isn't build on a strong foundation.  He spent most of his adult life in jail, the factory, and a fishing boat.  After his dad's death, they met once at Itaewon and again 7 years later.  Like his feeling for her was frozen in time, and it never progress since neither party want to take the next step.  It slowly melted away with the passage of time.

 

There are numerous reason why he fell for the Wildcat.  Beside his father, SK, HJ, and HY, nobody really believe in him including SA.  Here come this 20 year old girl who threw away her future just to work for him.  In addition to her brilliance in business and marketing, she bet her future on him, and it truly touched him.  This is why he selfishly kept her by his side.  In return for his selfish act and  her blind faith in him, he slowly opened up to her about his past. I truly think the moment he has romantic feeling for her is when she was laying on his lap crying due to the physical and emotional pain he had endured up till now.  He couldn't believe that someone could shed a tear for his struggle like that.  This is why he would also have emotional outburst toward YS and rebuke her whenever she disappointed him.  He would say that she should be on his side, but notice that he doesn't expect this from SA.  Which is why he can't think of Danbam (aka his life) without her.  The wildcat was able to worm her way into RY heart slowly without him fully realizing it.  RY is a very perceptive guy, so I feel like he already know that YS had feeling for him even before the rejection.  However, he can never reciprocate that feeling and did his best to repress any feeling for her by creating all sort of excuses.  He didn't want to go against his principle by breaking his promise to SA, betraying a friend like GS, and being 10 years older than her.  His unchanging principle which was one of his strongest attribute was also his roadblock to being happy.  That is why he said in the latest episode, he truly did have a regret.  He should have followed his heart.  That is why I think RY and YS are meant for each other, they are each other ying and yang.  RY helped changed YS to be a better person by being less selfish and try to have a little more empathy for those around her  Meanwhile, YS helped change RY into believing you can be selfish sometime and placed your own personal happiness over your principle.  She is the one that can bring those sweet night that he longed for.  Just my two cents.

 

Awww your post warmed my heart esp the bolded bits!  

I felt the same how she crawled into his heart the minute she crawled into his lap crying for his painful struggle!  <--- His smile while giving her a shoulder to sleep on during their bus ride kind of gave it away. She bloomed his heart and he was quite happy with their journey together! Sigh ... These two and their blossoming love <3, Can't wait for last 2 Eps. Hope to watch more of these two come to terms with their feelings in their own little space! 

[Anjalifairy]

@serenilmauve @AsveriaPSJ @Clark Kent @emollienime

Agree agree agree! If only i could give more than 1 reaction, i would use thanks, kiss, insightful, and awesome all at once in each post 

 

@Clark Kent your interpretation is exactly what i have in mind 

[AsveriaPSJ]

6 hours ago, dvoran said:

@greenwatch08 Noted on your valid breakdown - in fact I totally agree with you, just that the way the story pans out is less than ideal. My gripe isn't with why the characters do what they did, but why the characters are written that way when much of it could be explored with better depth. Then again, that's my flaw for thinking it could be "better". Perhaps I was led on to believe SR's "love" and resolution for SA to quit Jangga was as full of conviction as revenge for his father. They did share a deep history after all. Especially in the scene where he shouted from outside the bus to her. Then [after a few episodes], he realises he loves YS. As a scriptwriter, my point of view is that that doesn't align with his unchanging principles. In technical character development terms, it's cramming a lot of deliberate drama into an arc that's already crowded - with YS and the chairman's son. And this is where I feel @alexaze is right - it's become just a typical kdrama.

@serenilmauve you are absolutely right too, if many people love the writer's writing style, then it's just those of us who think that the main characters should have a redemption arc has a problem  Coming from a technical writing background, I strongly believe protagonists, deuteragonists and tritagonists should have a satisfactory development and redemption arc (where satisfactory is highly subjective of course).

No matter - as they say, it ain't over till the fat lady sings - 2 more episodes to go 

Let me disagree here with you as a person with writing background too. Not all characters need “redemption arc”, which implies, that all characters start by doing something wrong and need ASAP resolve at the end of story their wrongdoings. In my writing experience and understanding all characters need to come to certain resolution, but not necessarily redemption.
 

Saeroy as a person did nothing wrong. He is actually the center of other characters’ wrongdoing (him). But he has flaws in his character. The biggest being, that his principles depending on situation can either be pro or con. Which is a good technique; to make one of the pivotal and trademark traits of your character to be both his strength and weakness. So writer several times illustrated where it worked in his favor and where it hurt him or close to him people. That’s why also several times idea, that maybe Saeroy is too principled for his own good and people challenging and questioning his principled and idealistic nature were spoken not that much by his enemies (which is expected), but mostly also by his allies. 

Same with Oh Sooah. In overall big picture she did nothing wrong. Fundamentally it’s not her choice is not wrong, but still choosing your work over your personal relationship leads exactly to what we saw in last two episodes. She has everything that she dreamed her job will give her, but she has no personal strong bond with any characters around her. The one person, who was willing to build something with her burned out while he was waiting for her to achieve whatever she tried to achieve, while he also was not willing to give up his own ambitions to satisfy hers. His whole journey “to her” was mostly about him avenging his father (and at this point it’s not just his father anymore too, this revenge is taking obsessive traits. It’s like Saeroy forget that he himself is more than just “avenger of his father’s death”) and it’s hardly really her or his fault. So their resolution is letting go of each other, because their relationship is clearly not working. And Oh Sooah true “redemption arc” is to move on from place, that she grow to be dependent on. Because her whole personal arc, that she become “too much of an employee”(maybe not the best description, but I think it suits her the most).

 

Also Park Saeroy had more than “couple of episodes” to move on from Oh Sooah)) Let’s be honest here. Between his bus scene and his last episode cafe scene a lot of things happened between him and Jo Yiseo. On screen. While character himself wasn’t aware of his own growing feelings, we as viewers still saw that intimate moments of trust between them and growing personal bond.

 

I would also like to add here, that for me Ji Yiseo is one of those perfect examples when writer takes totally unlikable traits and make the whole character appealing to masses. That’s some type of craftsmanship, in my opinion. Just like having “prefect Oh Sooah”, the character everyone should root to succeed due to her tough early environment and realistic approach to life, yet also make her biggest flaw, that she become too comfortable in her position. People talk about “typical” or “predictable” progression, but Oh Sooah and some people’s perception of where she should’ve went is the main example, why it’s not true, imo)))

Also let me ask you and expect honest answer, are you dissatisfied with progression actually/partially not because misunderstanding/not understanding characters and their decisions or because you personally expected Oh Sooah and Park Saeroy to be an endgame?))