[Drama 2019] Everyone’s Lies/The Lies Within, 모두의 거짓말

[taeunfighting]

@AC95 I just finished watching myself and it was a fantastic episode. Tae Sik, Jin Gyeong and Seo Hui's hard work and persistence truly paid off here. I'll refrain from sharing details as well.

 

Edited to add: I forgot to give some credit to the coroner as well. It was nice to see her discretely help out Jin Gyeong and Tae Sik.

 

10 hours ago, AC95 said:

Still impressed by Lee Min-ki's understated performance of Tae-sik. The world's descending into madness but his steely calm is totally believable.

 

In this episode, I really liked the part where Jin Gyeong frustratingly asked Tae Sik how can be coldhearted and just calmly go on investigating while she wants kill all those who murdered Ho Gyu. He replied that rather resort to killing and end up in prison, he needs to take responsibility for Ho Gyu’s death and find out why he had to die like that so that he could face him later on. Oh my heart, Tae Sik-ah. I really love Lee Min Ki as Tae Sik.

[nrllee]

3 words after Episode Disclosure

 

“We Are Legends”  

 

Now all we need to work out is the deal with SHoon and his mutilations.

 

@triplem

Quote

@nrllee I think OCN should read our thread to see that many of us here have great detective skills

Remind me to reassemble the A(vengers) Team when we next have a mystery drama that needs solving or some diabolical plot that needs unearthing in KDramaLand.

[40somethingahjumma]

At the urging of some here first thing this morning, I watched the latest episode as soon as I could.

 

Not bad. I enjoyed it more than the previous one. Good to see the good guys finally getting their teeth into the crux of the matter with some serious leg work. While it was amusing seeing JG breaking all kinds of laws to get her hands on some medical data, it also demonstrated the fact that our heroes have to go outside of the system to find get to the truth. Fundamentally as most have noted, it is an environmental cover-up (I don't think that was ever much in doubt) but I still wonder if there's still more skeletons to turn up in this unholy grave. There's certainly plenty of room for that in 4 episodes.

 

I suppose what's really at stake is the future of the company... it's reputation and legacy. I'm not financially savvy but I imagine that this is the sort of thing that could see it go bust overnight... stocks plunging, the company changing hands etc. That's why the enormous expense of keeping it under wraps isn't an issue because it is far more important to ensure the longevity of the company.  So in that sense... it is deeply personal for the chairman. It also goes to show that the company is his true offspring whereas SHun V. 2 is merely a substitute for a gaping loss that's never been adequately filled. As others here have pointed out, the chairman seems willing to put SHun V.2's safety on the line in order to protect the company. The old man might not be certifiably insane but what drives him is a kind of ambitious madness that would see him prioritize his business empire over human life. 20 years of slow poison... that is just horrifying.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if YM is planning to oust the chairman at some point. He is close to the old man and can see him going doddery. His activities and decisions of late show him to be less of a willing slave of the old man and more to be a slick operator with his own agenda. Not sure if this was a more recent development (after CSHs death) or something that he's been planning for some time. Presumably it's the latter because this kind of scheme does need a bit of time to plan. Also he's got the company lawyer on side.

 

It seems like YDY is not a stranger to killing colleagues to cover his tracks. 10 years ago, he did something similar. Yeah... not exactly surprising. I don't want to waste too much on him but my assessment of him was largely right from the start although I had no idea how deep the rot and corruption was. I suppose we can ask the question as to how he managed to live with himself all this time... his rationalization that he was doing this for his kids. Did he never once think what they would think if they found out? Or did he never believe they would? Or did his fear of JQ overcome all of those things? As I said from the start, he's not a really smart guy or at least he fell prey to short-term thinking. He took bribes initially to look the other way to get by. If he had used up all the energy he spend covering his tracks as he had on real policing, things might have been different. However my feeling is that he never really had what it took to be a police officer holding the position that he did. Clearly his ambition outstripped his competence.

Before I go completely Shakespearean, I am still angry at what happened to HG. A young promising officer cut down in his prime. He could have been another TS given the right guidance under the right leadership. Such a waste. But it does lead me to think that the force in general doesn't care about talent in reality. It seems to reward people who play the game, brown nose and fall in line with the collectivist system. YDY has no excuse but he is very much a cog of this corrupt system.

 

The only reason why I watched this show past the second episode of course has to do with TS. He really is one of the smartest people in this drama. I like the show much more now and the women are in a much better place than they used to be. Both of them have come good. It is a testament to his intelligence and persistence that in such a short period of time he (with the help of JG and SHui) has been able to unearth the coverup and is gradually making inroads into the house of cards that is JQ. This episode sealed my fondness for him completely... His rationale for carrying on with HG was both deeply reasonable and deeply moving. I like the balance in the character very much. He is not arrogantly intelligent like Sherlock Holmes, neither is he emotionally leaky. He is very well written and well-portrayed indeed.

 

(I always find that the truly intelligent people that I've met in life never have to prove anything to anybody because their intelligence just oozes naturally in how they think and act. They're confident in themselves and so they don't need to denigrate others to get ahead. What also seems to be true is that they know doing what's right at the start is far more important because it builds the foundation for what is to come. Those who take shortcuts may show some weasley cunning but in the long run it is idiocy. )

 

[taeunfighting]

1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I wouldn't be surprised if YM is planning to oust the chairman at some point. He is close to the old man and can see him going doddery. His activities and decisions of late show him to be less of a willing slave of the old man and more to be a slick operator with his own agenda. Not sure if this was a more recent development (after CSHs death) or something that he's been planning for some time. Presumably it's the latter because this kind of scheme does need a bit of time to plan. Also he's got the company lawyer on side.

 

Now that the hidden secret about the land and the chairman has been unearthed. The next thing I'm most curious about is Sang Hun's whereabouts, but also YM's agenda. In the last episode, I was worried why YM wanted the advisor to keep tabs on Seo Hui. Through photos, it confirmed for him that Seo Hui is continuing to investigate JQ with Tae Sik, but he tells the advisor to let her be and to never let IDG and the chairman know about it because what she’s up to may help them with their plan. IMO, I do think YM has been plotting something more than what we can see right now. In addition, I'm still holding onto hope that he's also trying to protect Seo Hui as well. Nevertheless, I do find it fascinating that while IDG is quite transparent, YM is such a wildcard in this game.

[nrllee]

Just for context, the article below is a real life case with Chromium Toxicity.  As you can see, the effects are devastating and ongoing.  I think the movie Erin Brokovich was the story this real case was based on.

 

cr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_toxicity

 

Spoiler

In the U.S. state of California, an epidemic of hexavalent chromium exposure led to a class-action lawsuit in 1993: Anderson, et al. v. Pacific Gas and Electric. The Pacific Gas and Electric Company had dumped more than 1.4 billion litres (370 million gallons) of wastewater tainted with hexavalent chromium into the Mojave Desert. This contaminated the groundwater, and caused widespread illness among the people of Hinkley, California, a small community nearby. As of May 2017, the mandated environmental remediation measures are ongoing.

 

[40somethingahjumma]

3 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

 

Now that the hidden secret about the land and the chairman has been unearthed. The next thing I'm most curious about is Sang Hun's whereabouts, but also YM's agenda. In the last episode, I was worried why YM wanted the advisor to keep tabs on Seo Hui. Through photos, it confirmed for him that Seo Hui is continuing to investigate JQ with Tae Sik, but he tells the advisor to let her be and to never let IDG and the chairman know about it because what she’s up to may help them with their plan. IMO, I do think YM has been plotting something more than what we can see right now. In addition, I'm still holding onto hope that he's also trying to protect Seo Hui as well. Nevertheless, I do find it fascinating that while IDG is quite transparent, YM is such a wildcard in this game.

Yes it's great. I'm enjoying that side of the story as well.

 

It must have occurred to him at some point that he's on a sinking ship with the steady rise of the body count. I think he can see the writing on the wall. At some point the whole thing could implode and take him down with it. I could see how it would be in his interest to ensure the survival of JQ in some form or distance himself from the chairman when the moment arrives. He certainly has the know-how to take over, deny responsibility for the contamination fiasco, point the finger at the old guard and promise everyone that he will be cooperative in the ensuing investigation. He is that sort of guy who knows which side his bread is buttered.  He knows when to bail and where he should hitch his wagon when the whole thing blows.

 

If he seemed wishy washy before... he isn't now. (My 2 cents)

[liltash85]

Loving the vibe in this thread. There aren’t many of us here but we discuss this drama rather seriously. I feel like we are a special investigation team who works on a real life case to reopen the case. N we are digging all the chronological events that happened and the reasons also predicted the mastermind is. 

[taeunfighting]

@40somethingahjumma Same as you, I don’t doubt that YM is currently outwitting both the chairman and IDG in the JQ fall chess game. The writing is clearly on the wall so he won't fall for it. When I had mentioned YM as still a wildcard, it was more in the context of Seo Hui, but actually even of Sang Hun and CSH. Aside from business, I still wonder about his conscience. Whether he still has some left to help or at least not hurt Seo Hui in all this madness. Also, based on the preview, it looks like word will be out that Sang Hun is alive. If YM is really not involved with the kidnapping and cutting, I’m very curious to see if YM will come aide in saving his friend after having standing by the sidelines before. Last, the fact that he's letting Seo Hui continue to investigate JQ's hidden secret, which was an important goal of CSH, that I still wonder if he's willing to dismiss her murder so easily. Especially knowing that the culprits are the chairman and IDG. CSH was supposedly the closest person to him. I really want to know if he'll just let her die in vain without having accomplished her goal of exposing JQ. So, when he told the advisor that Seo Hui's investigation will help their plans, in that moment, I started wondering how long ago has YM been plotting. My hope is that he's been plotting way before he saw the ship sinking. That his true agenda is more than just JQ. It's a bit of a stretch, but it crosses my mind all the time.

[40somethingahjumma]

@taeunfighting 

My own view is that either YM has a soft spot for SHui or that at some point in the past he had been in love with her. In his own Machiavellian way I think he is trying to protect her from JQ and/or what ever firestorm lies ahead. He pretends to the important people (and I totally understand his MO there) that he's subservient to the chairman's agenda but on the side he is accomplishing his own agenda. I'm sure he knows he's not fully trusted so he has to look the part lest he be seen as weak. I am also sure that he doesn't want people to know that he has any weaknesses that they can use against him and consequently put her in harm's way. I keep returning to the polygraph interrogation and it tells me that he takes seriously his friendship with SHun and SHui but he has to be careful because of what might go back to the chairman via IDG and his minions.

I'm not keen on the idea of him being behind the mutilations mainly because he doesn't come across as a man who uses physical violence to achieve his purposes. He may know something about who is behind it but whether he did himself... that's much less likely. To me.

 

The notion that he's thinking beyond JQ is highly plausible especially knowing that he's intelligent and ambitious. I suppose we can only wait to see what his next moves are before we can get any clarity on this. He may turn out to be one of the most fascinating characters of the drama.

[nrllee]

28 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I'm not keen on the idea of him being behind the mutilations mainly because he doesn't come across as a man who uses physical violence to achieve his purposes.

Ditto.  I don’t think he could do it himself.  He may be delivery boy though (for the foot)... which is why he was out his usual business attire for a while... black cap and all... and there was that hand washing scene... I think he’s in on it with SHoon.  But yes I feel like he does have a soft spot for SHui or perhaps SHoon told him to watch her back whilst he’s away.  Does he have his own agenda?  Maybe it is to run JQ...but if the whole toxic waste saga is brought to light, there may not much of it left to run.

 

 

[imgreatgal]

SeoHui was amazing in ep12. Just can''t believe she was that naive whining woman from episode1. I Like the team of her, TaeSik and JinYeong working together to  uncover what JQ was trying desperately to hide. The New Business was proposed by JQ to cover up their crime of illegally dumping industrial waste. It started 20yrs ago when JO was Jeonggeon Steelwork it's no wonder that the chairman has an attachment to the land, it was where he started the company. Was KimSeungCheol also part of Jeonggeon Steelwork since his name was on the report that SeoHui saw?  Maybe that was what the argument between him and SangHun was about and the dirt Hong had on him.

It was difficult to read YeongMin in the earlier episode. Maybe because we were shown a lot more of InDongu's character and less of YeongMin but I can't say I see a different side of him because I don't know his real side. Looking at his backstory I see him as a survivor.  It may be wrong for the Chairman to underestimate YeongMin. The way he was going about the shares with Mr Lee it seems he certainly knows what he's doing. 

But where is SangHun? The culprirt has stop sending Sanghun's limbs.  Has he achieve his objective?

[40somethingahjumma]

1 hour ago, imgreatgal said:

 

But where is SangHun? The culprirt has stop sending Sanghun's limbs.  Has he achieve his objective?

 

I think so. I've always believed that this was the reason why the whole thing started in the first place. Someone is/was calling attention to what JQ was doing and hoping to get a real investigation going and make it public. They were obviously angry and frustrated that JQ seemed to be getting away with murder. I wouldn't be surprised if a group of the locals banded together and got the ball rolling.

 

I understand why SHun and Assemblyman Kim kept things between themselves but on hindsight they should have been a lot more careful especially after the reporter's untimely death. I'm sure it was hard for them to trust anyone.

 

2 hours ago, nrllee said:

Does he have his own agenda?  Maybe it is to run JQ...but if the whole toxic waste saga is brought to light, there may not much of it left to run.

 

 

Even if he doesn't get to run JQ, I suppose he could make a fast buck from stock manipulation??? Falling stocks?? I don't know how that sort of high finance stuff works except from what I have heard on other crime shows. 

[bedifferent]

Don't have time to chat, be back when I can.  Enjoying all your theories @nrllee we are sleuth wannabe cuz it's so much easier to solve Kdrama problems than your own irl.

 

Just a thought.   The waste happened ~ 1999, were ES and YM adopted from the children center near the old JQ factory?  Could YM have ties to the people, orphans, that fell ill?  I can't tell if the possibility is there for YM to be plotting JQ downfall along with the secret society?  His quick climb to CEO may not necessarily be ambition alone.  

 

Spoiler

 

5/26/1994         Traffic accident on Yongjin expressway.  Driver Son Du Gang survived with minor injuries. His passengers, Seo Eun Seuk (CEO Jeong's wife died at the scene and Sang Hoon (son died at hospital).

 

Years ago          Yu Eun Seong and Jin Yeong-Min were orphans at Yeongwon Children Center

                            Eun Seong was adopted by CEO Jeong, changed his identity to Sang Hoon (2nd grade)

 

 

[bebebisous33]

@40somethingahjumma I was right about the reason why YDY chose the wrong path: money... The words he used to convince JTS to drop the case were the reason for my suspicions. He took brides and that was his downfall. However, I was surprised how corrupted YDY was. I never expected that he was responsible for the death of his former colleague Park because the latter wanted to report YDY. In reality, YDY is a coward who blames the others for his own wrongdoings. "If JTS hadn't kept investigating the case, if HG hadn't searched for the file, if..."  That's how he thinks. The more he does, the deeper he is digging his own grave and he doesn't even get aware of it. The captain really annoyed me  due to his reactions. He used the same words with Park (he had to do it because others do it, he had to do it because he has 3 kids aso...). Each time, he excuses himself with such cheap points.

 

About YM I have the impression that his ultimate goal is to take over JQ. Remember that JYM has become the CEO of JQ E&F. Little by little he is getting the support from the board directors who are buying shares of the new company. In my opinion, YM is aiming to overthrow the chairman. That's why he is not stopping Kim Seo Hui from investigating the contamination. I have the impression that YM wants the chairman JYM to become the scapegoat, while the new company E&F will be able to resist the critics as it is a new company. Officially, the new CEO has nothing to do with the contamination that happened 20 years ago. I am not so sure that he is protecting SH because he loves her. He even said that she would help them for their plan... so he saw in her a tool for his own goal. From my point of view, he has become like the chairman but he is aiming higher than IDG who is just acting like a dog with the chairman. IDG might have used the land in order to get rich but that's peanut comparing JYM's true goal: replacing the chairman. I have the impression that it could be the reason why JYM didn't help JSH back then and even betrayed him. Revealing the contamination too soon would definitely not help him. It had to happen after the new bill was passed and after he became nominated as CEO. 

Maybe JYM might have manipulated the vet telling him that JSH as the son of JYM was somehow responsible for the contamination and his son's death.

 

@nrllee @triplem  @bedifferent  But I am still suspecting that there is more than just a contamination. We shouldn't forget the interview with the prosecutor about the murderer who was a victim of sexual abuse. Then we have the death of JTS's sister. There could be another reason why the chairman wants the land... and the others are not aware of it. They all think, they need the land to cover up the scandal (contamination). 

[nrllee]

@bebebisous33 Yes anything goes with Palpatine so it may not just be toxic waste he’s hiding

 

I am wondering if YM’s duplicity has also got something to do with his loathing of IDG.  Has he worked out that IDG killed CSH?  He knows that IDG has it in for him to be the fall guy if the venture fails which then leaves IDG the clear winner in the power stakes within JQ.  So it could be a mix of vengeance for CSH and also his way of “fighting back” to stake his right to be in JQ.

 

2 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

Maybe JYM might have manipulated the vet telling him that JSH as the son of JYM was somehow responsible for the contamination and his son's death.

 

That is a distinct possibility too.

 

6 hours ago, bedifferent said:

Could YM have ties to the people, orphans, that fell ill?  I can't tell if the possibility is there for YM to be plotting JQ downfall along with the secret society? 

Plausible. 
 

I thought both YM and the vet showed signs of distress.  YM (incognito) with the hand washing.  And I had the impression the vet after his delivery, when he went back to his motorbike, he stood there for a few seconds seemingly shaken as if to gather himself before scooting off.  Maybe it was just the adrenaline from having to deliver such a gory parcel.  Neither men strike me as capable of amputation/enucleation without the consent of the patient.  IDG yes, but not YM or the vet.  So my money is still on SHoon being the mastermind.

[imgreatgal]

5 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

However, I was surprised how corrupted YDY was. I never expected that he was responsible for the death of his former colleague

I suspect that IDG had stage the whole thing. IDG knew YDY is a corrupted cop and he needed someone from inside the police department to do his bidding. I find it strange that IDG kept the footage for 10yrs to be used for ChoiSuyeon's case.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

But I am still suspecting that there is more than just a contamination. We shouldn't forget the interview with the prosecutor about the murderer who was a victim of sexual abuse. Then we have the death of JTS's sister. There could be another reason why the chairman wants the land... and the others are not aware of it. They all think, they need the land to cover up the scandal (contamination)

 I don’t think it’s just land contamination. There was something creepy in the way the JQ chairman looked at the land , as if it was something so precious , which is strange considering it’s so contaminated. It is linked to the orphanage as well to which I believe the Chairman was a patron . 
 

————-

What do you all think of YM’s words in the preview - let’s cut him off ? Who is he removing from the plans & who is this he’s talking to? 
 

 

[nrllee]

3 hours ago, triplem said:

What do you all think of YM’s words in the preview - let’s cut him off ? Who is he removing from the plans & who is this he’s talking to?

Wild guess but I think he’s talking to the Chairman...and he’s talking about removing IDG from the plans?  The 2 of them (YM and IDG) are tussling over who will be top dog in JQ.  The Chairman seems to be letting them fight it out and playing both sides.  IDG tried to set YM up for the fall but YM is trying in his own way to out manoeuvre him?  And pushing the Chairman to take IDG out of the picture altogether by cutting him off?

 

EDIT - what has YM been up to in the last 2 eps?  We are shown that he’s the one buttering up the other directors of JQ.  They all have stakes in the company.  Chairman Jeong may have clout because he started it (JQ had its beginnings as the Steelworks that caused the contamination 20 years ago), but the other members in that meeting room probably represent other subsidiaries or arms of the company.  That’s why they were mad that they weren’t consulted because they invested in the new business not accounting for the massive losses from rushing the bill through for the land grab.  Then in the corridor after the meeting, YM says something very interesting, he tells the Chairman that he will personally handle the directors from now on, since the Chairman would be busy dealing with the police (TaeSik who is still on the run and digging up the past).  Is this YM’s grab for power?  Then there’s this follow up conversation he had with one of the Advisors (the one who was in the car with the Chairman discussing IDG Vs YM character traits).

 

Advisor - We’ve talked to Mr Park about the shares.  For the funds he’s started to buy stocks of JQ E&F. All we need to do now is to win Mr Gong to our side.  Then we will be able to secure all the stocks we need by next month.

YM - thank you for your hard work.  I will meet with Mr Gong.

Advisor - Okay I will arrange an appointment.  And there’s something you should see. (Hands him photos of SHui at JQ hospital). Assemblywoman Kim has been seen visiting JQ Hospital and asked for the medical histories of some patients.

YM - some patients?

Advisor - yes. I guess she has the list of names.

YM - so we’ve ended up like this.

Advisor - what do we do?

YM - leave her be.

Advisor - pardon?

YM (smiles at him) - just leave her alone.  Don’t do anything.

Advisor - But...

YM - it will eventually help our plan.  Chairman Jeong and Mr In should never know about this though.

Advisor - Okay.

YM (smiles).

 

The earlier conversation between IDG and YM outside the office (when TaeSik dials the 7332 number)

 

 

IDG - now that we’re done with dealing with everything, we just need to tear down the factory.

YM - once they pass the bill at the end of this month, we will begin to tear down the RMC factory.  It will take about 2 weeks to finish. If things go as planned, the groundbreaking ceremony will take place the last week of next month.

IDG - you’re living up to your new role, you know how to push ahead.  How are Assemblywoman Kim and the cops? Have you noticed anything in particular after what happened? 

YM - they’re being careful these days. The team was changed as well. And now that she’s even had an accident, it won’t be easy for SHui to be reckless like she was before. 

IDG - I’ve already agreed to let you deal with that matter, so I’ll trust that you will take care of it.

 

so the final bill for the land purchase happens at the end of the month... why is he buying stocks of JQ E&F before that deadline?  If he’s letting SHui dig up the truth of the toxic waste, the company will suffer huge losses from the failure of the new business.  But will there be other arms of the business that will survive?  The Chairman will go down with big reveal because he’s linked with the original Steel plant.  By buttering up the other directors, YM has a lifeline.  IDG and the Chairman will go down with the toxic waste cover up but he’s in the clear.  That’s my current theory as to why he seems okay with SHui digging up more dirt.  

[bebebisous33]

@nrllee Yes, I think exactly the same. YM has planned to take over the company and have IDG and the chairman taken the fall for the water contamination. By dealing with the directors, he wants them to be on his side. By the way, I've noticed something: YM seems to have developed this habit: do nothing and just observe. He let CSH investigate but didn't help her, although he knew. At some point he reported it to the chairman. It was the same with JSH and KCH. His inactivity was the reason why they got targeted and he must have known it, when we see now how he puts tails on IDG. I guess before, he must have monitored his best friend and the assemblyman as well.

I don't think that YM is selfless and I hope that the discovery of another huge secret will bring him down. He is definitely dirty as he betrayed his lover and his best friend. YM must have known that he was putting the journalist in danger, when he revealed the content of her investigation. 

That's why I also think, the "cut off" is directed at the chairman JYM. He is about to abandon him and let him be the scapegoat of his own trap.

JYM is the mirror of the evil chairman.   

[nrllee]

2 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

 

That's why I also think, the "cut off" is directed at the chairman JYM. He is about to abandon him and let him be the scapegoat of his own trap

you could be right and the cutting off is directed at Chairman Jeong and not IDG.