[Drama 2019] Everyone’s Lies/The Lies Within, 모두의 거짓말

[bedifferent]

@ktcjdrama hahaha, no, you are actually really good with details so this tells me you are super affected by our maknae Ho Gyu's death.  Poor boy.  He's going to take us into Act 2 where TaeSik now is our fugitive on the run.  Here is where Seo Hui will have to step up for the both of them if she really wants to help her husband.  May she find ways to act instead of react and surprise us all.

 

I'll add this license plate into the timeline... the car that followed Assemblyman Kim 3/3 night.

 

 

@40somethingahjumma I hope you feel better.... Ohhhh I'm not sure I can go back watching HG again in episode 1   I remember Yoo asking HG why he left a nice paying position with a high profile company.  We eventually find out HG's decision to quit was his insecurity about whether he is cut for the job or can stay afloat in the rat race.  Little does he know - it's the nerds that rule this world of ours (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos..) He'll be missed.

[taeunfighting]

8 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

@taeunfighting @bedifferent Strangely, I would prefer YM remaining loyal to the chairman till the end than switching the side in the last moment because he disagrees with KSH's murder. So far, he even betrayed and abandoned his lover CSH and this person loved him. To feel remorse in the last moment and bring down the chairman doesn't suit my taste because so far, JYM is well aware of the number of casualties: the victims of the environmental pollution, the death of CSH and KCH, now the death of a police officer... The list of victims is so long and each time, JYM turned a blind eye to it for the sake of his survival.

 

@bebebisous33 The reason why I personally wouldn't mind it if YM betrays the chairman is because throughout the story, it’s hinted that he internally struggled with his past choices between friends and the chairman. So, eventually switching sides wouldn’t seem like a decision in the last moment for me. After all, isn’t realizing that you’ve been on the wrong path better late than never? I initially thought the washing of his hands was likely guilt from cutting Sang Hun and/or the murders (CSH, KSC/KPY), but as of now, we know that the murders were executed by IDG and the cutting is highly likely by the vet. So, perhaps the suggestion of any intangible guilt means that he may have the least bit of conscience in him left to actually do the right thing and save Seo Hui. Not only is Seo Hui his friend, but she’s also Sang Hun’s wife. Seo Hui has meaning to him from both those perspectives.

 

I also see it also as an opportunity for YM to honor CSH’s final words to leave JQ and the chairman. It seemed CSH truly cared for his well-being. If YM couldn’t see it then when CSH said those words to him, hopefully, he can see it now in finally realizing how ruthless the chairman is. Besides, it wasn’t until recently in episode 9 where YM learned from Hong that IDG killed KSC and KPY. Hong also told him that he suspects IDG may have Sang Hun too because he’s been using his safety to manipulate Seo Hui to pass the bill. It didn't seem that YM knew this before. I think this is why he cleverly asked IDG if the reason why he didn’t kill Seo Heo off is because “we” needed her to pass the bill. He said it to test IDG to see if Hong’s suspicions could be true. Later, in a meeting with the chairman, he thought the chairman would agree that IDG hurting Seo Hui went too far, but he was somewhat shook when the chairman dismissed it because she didn’t actually die. The chairman further says he cares for Seo Heo like a child and he still needs Seo Hui for the elections. The combination of the two situations didn’t make sense to YM. How can you say you care for someone like a child, but put her life in danger for your own benefit. Hong and Bareun’s CEO had slipped to YM that he was appointed CEO to take JQ’s fall. YM now knows for sure that he’s next to be sacrificed. The chairman isn’t genuinely treating Seo Hui like his own child, why would he be a genuine to YM. If I were YM, I wouldn’t be foolishly be loyal to the chairman until the very end knowing all of this.

 

When I first said this in my previous post, I had noted that this hope may be crazy and slim to none. I just wouldn’t mind it if YM’s character happen to play out this way in the end.

[nrllee]

The chairman grooms his adopted children.  Brainwashing them from a young age.  Like his bonsai.  He’s predatory.  He picks his prey and knows where and when to push their buttons.  And he manipulates them like chess pieces to do his bidding, howbeit in a very hands off passive aggressive way.  SHoon seemingly “escaped” his clutches when he went to Germany with SHui.  Do we know why he came back yet?  My memory fails me.

 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

11 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

@taeunfighting @bedifferent Strangely, I would prefer YM remaining loyal to the chairman till the end than switching the side in the last moment because he disagrees with KSH's murder. So far, he even betrayed and abandoned his lover CSH and this person loved him. To feel remorse in the last moment and bring down the chairman doesn't suit my taste because so far, JYM is well aware of the number of casualties: the victims of the environmental pollution, the death of CSH and KCH, now the death of a police officer... The list of victims is so long and each time, JYM turned a blind eye to it for the sake of his survival.

 

On the other side, I would rather like IDG to abandon the chairman. Why? IDG resents his father because he considered the accident as his father's fault. Due to his mistake, he lost his position and his self-respect. IDG jumped to the conclusion that money is everything. Besides, the chairman showed a certain tolerance and magnanimity as he accepted the son of the driver who was the reason for his son's loss. In his eyes, the chairman appears more open-minded. But what if everything he thought was a lie? The chairman covered up something. It would be interesting to discover that in reality, his father was not to blame for the accident... and the so called generosity was just fake. So far, I do think that IDG views the chairman as a surrogate father. 

 

While I think it's a fascinating line of thought, Iike others on the thread I tend to think YM a more likely candidate for reversing his trajectory mainly because SHun and SHui are his friends. SHui in particular could be the key. I still think that YM is quite likely in love with her on some level or at least he might have been a rival for her affections in the past and when push comes to shove, he might not be able to bring himself to do her harm. It begs the question as to how much he cared for CYS. I know he appeals to IDG's pragmatism and political expediency but that's probably his way of masking his true feelings in front of a man he doesn't trust and like. YM knows too that IDG is his true and only rival at JQ. If he's acting extra cautiously it's because he know that one misstep could cause him his place next to the chairman. He won't be wrong in thinking that things could really run amok at JQ without him.

 

Of course it would be more interesting if IDG did... and I still suspect him for running his own agenda... because he seems so servile in front of the chairman. And with Slavishlyno conscience to bother him. However, any kind of guilt could be manifested in his mysophobia. On the other hand the servility could just be an act... at this stage I can't tell. As far as the chairman is concerned, IDG is his lap dog on a leash. 

 

It's true too that the chairman doesn't necessarily trust either men much. He may groom these orphans as @nrllee has observed to be his tools and weapons so they do his bidding willingly but at the end of the day they're not blood. So any kind of betrayal from some quarter... most likely from the chairman himself... is not unrealistic at all.

 

@bedifferent Yeah, it's depressing about HG but not beyond the pale for an OCN drama. Still shocked and reeling from how quickly nerd boy got the flick.  I suppose they want to demonstrate how deep the evil has penetrated and that's why the revenge plotters have to go to such extremes as to mutilate SHun to send a message. I'm really hoping it's not YDY. HG was beaten up really badly so IDG might have been present also. That's more like his style.

 

[Yana Mujay]

Uhffff...blow in..blow out...okay breathe calmly 

I was so angry with whoever the masters mind...uhfff gosh the plot and the progress of investigation is so slow, and now we saw one of the team been shooting...hope nothing happened with this slow witted newbie..

Actually wanna waiting patiently till this drama ended enjoy the plots twist and turns but after episode 9 when the detective still have no ideas what the case they in it, i lost my patience 

And it's happening the culprit pulling JTS trigger, might speed up his rage to put all his efforts to catch the coward guys. up now more than 4 people's dies injustice it's  not including the kids who's got impact from the land, does the land they reclaimed containing a danger chemical ?or the orphanage kids is a kind of victims of science research?

Does the mutilation and the new business teams have corelation?

Or there're 2 group people with different objective?

I got those all inquiries while finished last night episode.

So next week is the real start of investigation.

Thrilling.

 

[nat_phoenix88]

I am super shocked after watching Ho Gyu's scene. He looked disappointed. Could be it's their ex-captain? Ho Gyu aaa. I knew something bad would happened because he stayed out of his car. I knew someone would harmed him. But I didn't expect the shooting scene. And now they will put the blame on Tae Sik. Arrrgghh..

 

About mr. jo ajushi as vet, I have this bad feeling. He has medical license, so does the culprit who mutilates Sang Hun.

 

And about the village, now we know it's ralated to sick children, maybe because of JQ industrial side effect, as usually happens in a movie.

[jongski]

Thank you chingus  for all all the post and theories. I haven't watch the episodes yet but Ill share my two cents once I'm done. So Ho-Gyu died huh.  I wanna see how TS feels....remember when he was mad at HG for the mistake during the  investigation and he lecture him.

 

YM being orphaned and not having any family was at the orphanage longer than S-hun, he considered  S-Hun as his younger brother and always concern for him. YM was the one who was actually close to the chairman.. always happy to see him going up to him but chairman  chose SH to adopt just because...  he look like the chairman's deceased son.  When S-hun left, I don't think he cried ( initially) because he was not the one adopted but because S-hun left.  Ithink that YM is more conflicted he's easily more weaker and would do what Chairman would like to  please him.  YM still vague though.

 

2 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

YM knows too that IDG is his true and only rival at JQ.

I feel the real rivalry is between YM and IDG too.

[Guest]

@taeunfighting @bebebisous33 Now that I rewatch with subs...and the built of the guy does look like YDY ...but the way that HG addressed him felt rather informal for someone who was his previous boss. But of course this may be to throw us off.  I am wondering what dirt IDG has on YDY that it would pressure him so much to resort killing his former subordinate ( assuming that was YDY ) . I can see that YDY missed his team when they were all dispersed, so I am wondering if he would be able to do it. 

@bedifferent I wish the writer did not have to take HG's life to move the plot forward. But of course , the writer needed it to make this case personal for Tae Sik.  I teared up at their farewell dinner , because I knew it was going to be their last. I have really come to like how  much they have become like family.

 

 

5 hours ago, nrllee said:

The chairman grooms his adopted children.  Brainwashing them from a young age.  Like his bonsai.  He’s predatory.  He picks his prey and knows where and when to push their buttons.  And he manipulates them like chess pieces to do his bidding, howbeit in a very hands off passive aggressive way.  SHoon seemingly “escaped” his clutches when he went to Germany with SHui.  Do we know why he came back yet?  My memory fails me.

 

 

Don't think it has been mentioned. But from what Seo Hui said about how they drifted apart after the baby talk, I wonder if it was because they needed some time out which was why they both came back separately

 

@40somethingahjumma @AC95

I love these flashbacks that Seo Hui gets. Not only because we get to see more of LJH's handsome face , but because I find that these scenes help me emotionally connect to Seo Hui. I so desperately want her to be reunited with Sang Hun and to be given the chance to start afresh,  because it is clear both still have a lot of love for each other. 

 

[anony12345]

4 hours ago, triplem said:

@taeunfighting @bebebisous33 Now that I rewatch with subs...and the built of the guy does look like YDY ...but the way that HG addressed him felt rather informal for someone who was his previous boss. But of course this may be to throw us off.  I am wondering what dirt IDG has on YDY that it would pressure him so much to resort killing his former subordinate ( assuming that was YDY ) . I can see that YDY missed his team when they were all dispersed, so I am wondering if he would be able to do it. 

 

 

I don't think it has to be dirt necessarily. When he goes back home and his daughter has new headphones, they ask who gave it to her and she said it was his friend - and from the business card the kid gets we know it's IDG so it could just be do this or we get to your kid

[bebebisous33]

@triplem @anony12345 @taeunfighting In my opinion, YDY's reason for helping IDG has been money. I had already pointed out that the family of 5 people was living pretty well for a family with only one salary.

Notice that IDG has a direct connection to him. YDY is not acting on JQ's order but on IDG's order and this is important. We have to remember that the chairman used his influence on the two commissioners in order to stop the investigation. Why would the chairman use YDY in addition? The former is linked to the highers-up and not someone like YDY. That's why I don't think that when IDG gave the headphone to the daughter, he was threatening YDY. To me, it looked like he wanted him to remember the origin of his source of income. Look, your daughter is able to get such headphone thanks to me...

Furthermore, if it was just to threaten his family, he could have called the cops. But he didn't. IDG needed himself to create his own connection, just like YM had to build his own connection. Notice how quickly JYM heard about KSH's car accident, just after IDG got warned about the discovery of the list. 

 

To me, there is no doubt about YDY's involvement (the shock and disappointment on HG's face) and the words HG said just before being chased by the killer clearly proves that YDY has done a lot of dirty work before and he was paid for that: fabricate evidence (medicine), delete footage, cause a hit-and-run accident, leak info to IDG, manipulate the investigation (putting the blame on YM), now kill someone... Now, he can pin the murder onto JTS so that he can get rid of JTS and stop the investigation.

 

YDY worked with JTS for 10 years and now I am wondering if IDG approached the captain in order to monitor JTS because of his sister in the first place? This would explain why YDY agreed to the deal so easily as it rather looked harmless. Nothing important happened for so long. Besides, the moment JTS found the culprit of his sister's murder, he wanted to return to his hometown. Anyway, the moment YDY accepted the deal (money for leaking info about JTS), this was the beginning to hell with no return.

 

But the moment JTS is turned into a wanted criminal, JTS escapes YDY and JQ's control which makes him even more dangerous. As rogue, JQ and IDG have no tool to put pressure on JTS. Besides, KSH is no longer controlled by the butcher. I guess, there will be no amputation any longer. The vet just wanted now to push KSH to dig and reveal the scandal. Besides, he could notice that the chairman had chosen to abandon his son and prefer covering up the dirty secret.

 

As for YDY, the moment his involvement is discovered, the chairman will be able to push the blame onto IDG, when the connection between IDG and YDY is revealed. Even with YDY's testimony, the chairman can not be suspected of any crime. IDG will be the scapegoat in the worst case. That's why I am hoping that there is another dirty secret (like child abuse, sexual abuse) concerning only the chairman and where no one can take the fall.

 

As for the chairman, his words clearly reveal his lack of empathy and hypocrisy. He cares about her like his own son... Fact is that he chose to save his business over his son the moment he realized that JSH's disappearance might be linked to his dirty secret. So he is right in the sense that he treats her like JSH, she is important because she is the one who will help him to pass the bill. So business is still more important than the person.

 

I agree that the station might have played a role in the land contamination: bringing dangerous stuff like nuclear waste for example.

 

    

[liltash85]

@triplem you said HG spoke in banmal (informal)?  Could it be the mole is the lady detective??? This will be a great twist but from the silhouette and way of walking is not her. 

[nrllee]

25 minutes ago, liltash85 said:

you said HG spoke in banmal (informal)?

I think it would be a dead giveaway if he spoke formally?  Who else would he speak “formally” to?  Not TaeSik because he was on his way.  It would have to be YDY.  So perhaps they got him to say it informally to hide it from viewers like @triplem suggested.

 

@anony12345

Quote

I don't think it has to be dirt necessarily. When he goes back home and his daughter has new headphones, they ask who gave it to her and she said it was his friend - and from the business card the kid gets we know it's IDG so it could just be do this or we get to your kid

yeah that was the impression I got.  If I were YDY I would be fearful for my daughter’s life.  The fact that IDG got so close to her and knew her school and whereabouts would’ve sent alarm bells ringing.  It was an indirect threat to YDY.  You want your family safe?  Then make sure you do what I say.

 

EDIT - actually I am beginning to wonder if the whole capture of SHoon is playing out Stockholm Syndrome but in a very disturbing way.  The means whereby each body part was removed reflected the different captors? The viciousness of the hand removal - IDG.  The foot (the removal of which wasn’t revealed) - YM.  And the clinical precision of the enucleation - the veterinarian.  I can’t see the veterinarian chopping into SHoon’s hand and also performing the delicate eye removal surgery... the methods are vastly different?

[AC95]

19 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

The chairman further says he cares for Seo Heo like a child and he still needs Seo Hui for the elections. The combination of the two situations didn’t make sense to YM. How can you say you care for someone like a child, but put her life in danger for your own benefit. Hong and Bareun’s CEO had slipped to YM that he was appointed CEO to take JQ’s fall. YM now knows for sure that he’s next to be sacrificed. The chairman isn’t genuinely treating Seo Hui like his own child, why would he be a genuine to YM. If I were YM, I wouldn’t be foolishly be loyal to the chairman until the very end knowing all of this.

 

@taeunfighting Yes, this whole exchange makes one's skin crawl. Props to Yeong-min's actor, On Joo-wan for being able to switch between the company 'mask' and show glimmers of his conscience. His tug of war with In Dong-gu is entertaining as hell and yes, it would be satisfying for him to turn against the Chairman, he's such a wildcard...

 

14 hours ago, triplem said:

I love these flashbacks that Seo Hui gets. Not only because we get to see more of LJH's handsome face , but because I find that these scenes help me emotionally connect to Seo Hui. I so desperately want her to be reunited with Sang Hun and to be given the chance to start afresh,  because it is clear both still have a lot of love for each other. 

 

@triplem Every time I think they've spoiled us with the *last* of the fan service, they go the extra mile  If anything, their seemingly broken marriage has proven to be the most moving 'lie' of all. I'm glad they didn't have Seo-hui be heroic and fearless from the get-go. Her confusion and helplessness in losing the man she loves (thrice over, because first there was the threat of divorce, the rumour of an affair, and then the disappearance) have been very authentic. It won't be a smooth road even if they do reunite because, as Tae-sik wisely says, Sang-hun has struggled so long with his identity. But yes! We are rooting hard for them!

 

10 hours ago, anony12345 said:

I don't think it has to be dirt necessarily. When he goes back home and his daughter has new headphones, they ask who gave it to her and she said it was his friend - and from the business card the kid gets we know it's IDG so it could just be do this or we get to your kid

 

@anony12345Truth. Much as I've hated Captain Yu's cowardly actions and the latest developments with Ho-gyu, the show rightly humanised him in that scene with his family. The imagery of the headphones round his daughter's neck - so, so sinister. And the way his face changed looking at the business card...

 

20 hours ago, imgreatgal said:

I'm not too verse with the land matters. There seems to be some issue with passing of the bill and the chairman tells Hong to concede even if they will lose billions. Meaning JQ will purchase the land without the Renewable Energy Business. So the chairman is trying very hard to protect the land?

 

@imgreatgal Yes, I think it was partly ambiguous translation and because the show itself was intentionally not showing the full administrative procedure. I infer the following (others with more knowledge of Korean legislative processes please correct me).

 

On the Clauses . Version 1 of the bill was drafted by JQ, before the events of this series, very likely with input from Seo-hui's dad and supported by his party. There were at least 3 elements that were intended to benefit JQ:

• Clause 15 - the right to purchase 'national land' in Songju. National = state-owned land and can take many forms. Some of us may be more familiar with state land in the form of national parks. But it can be any land that's not yet designated for a particular use, and which a government holds for future i) sale, ii) lease, iii) its own developments. It's very unusual to specify a location in a national level bill, and this was clearly picked up by glasses-guy when he questioned Yeong-min about this. JQ is desperate about Songju. From the episodes with In Dong-gu and his drunk father, we know that JQ was also purchasing private land from individuals (farmers). The extent of JQ's desired area is huge. In Sang-hun's red-circled map, we see a large hilly part in the middle, which is likely the state-owned land, and surrounding flatter parts are likely the farmland owned by individuals.
• Tax support (i.e. tax breaks). Governments usually charge tax on a number of different things. You can tax the land itself for every year in which it's occupied, and also tax the earnings from any business activities taking place. Say if JQ was importing some kind of massive machinery or reactor from overseas, the Korean government might reduce duties on those. Version 1 of the bill likely reduced or totally removed these taxes for JQ.
• Program management support (i.e. incentives and grants). To accomplish something ambitious, like changing the structure of the economy, or adjusting the energy mix, governments need private sector companies to participate in a big way. Companies won't do this in risky new areas which aren't profitable. I think @40somethingahjumma also alluded to how unprofitable the alternative energy industry can be in an earlier discussion. There's a large upfront cost, in terms of creating new infrastructure, spurring research and development, and training people to work in the new industry. So Governments can create 'programs', i.e. set aside money to actively fund such development, and keep supporting it in the early years until the business becomes profitable. JQ would be the 'program manager', it seems. We don't know the details, but the bill could have contained funding clauses for equipment, scientific & engineering innovation, education for JQ workers. In the case of alternative energy, the government probably has to buy all the energy produced by the new business at a certain price too. This would have been very lucrative and a fixed funding stream for JQ.

 

On the process. Let's recall - Seo-hui tabled / sponsored the bill for an initial debate (it was the episode where she sat at the front with a panel and couldn't answer any of glasses-guy's questions). The translator made it sound like the bill had passed, but it wasn't the case.

 

There was a second tabling in which the opposition wanted to make lots of edits (Version 1.1). This was what Assemblyman Hong reported back to Chairman Jeong. We now have the Chairman authorising Hong to create a Version 2 of the bill sacrificing the clauses on tax and incentives. Only Clause 15 must remain. The most recent meeting between Hong and the opposition (which glasses-guy tipped Seo-hui off about) seems only to be an informal one, a backroom deal session. 

 

The bill may still need to go to other committees (possibly more than one if the bill has multiple implications) before being sent to the full National Assembly for signatures. So there ought to be opportunities for Seo-hui to come back in, all guns blazing, and scupper it! Really looking forward to that... 

[nrllee]

Thanks for the detailed explanation @AC95.  All that political/economic speech went over my head.  I tend to switch off when $ and economic data and budget is discussed  .  But yes it does sound like the ruling party needs the opposition party to agree to the bill which was why the most vocal opposition party member approached SHui about Cl 15.  He was very suspicious (and rightly so) as to why her party conceded on all fronts (to sweeten the deal) bar Cl 15 in order to rush the bill through.  And as IDG mentioned with the Chairman, it would be at an exorbitant cost to JQ by conceding but the Chairman was adamant.  All that mattered was the land purchase. 

[bedifferent]

20 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

 I initially thought the washing of his hands was likely guilt from cutting Sang Hun and/or the murders (CSH, KSC/KPY), but as of now, we know that the murders were executed by IDG and the cutting is highly likely by the vet. 

 

Ohhh I forgot about this... What was YM doing or where was he going in black outfit disguise?  Why was he washing his hands?  Those missing hours?  The repairman jacket? What's his story?

 

1 hour ago, AC95 said:

• Program management support (i.e. incentives and grants). To accomplish something ambitious, like changing the structure of the economy, or adjusting the energy mix, governments need private sector companies to participate in a big way. Companies won't do this in risky new areas which aren't profitable. I think @40somethingahjumma also alluded to how unprofitable the alternative energy industry can be in an earlier discussion. There's a large upfront cost, in terms of creating new infrastructure, spurring research and development, and training people to work in the new industry. So Governments can create 'programs', i.e. set aside money to actively fund such development, and keep supporting it in the early years until the business becomes profitable. JQ would be the 'program manager', it seems. We don't know the details, but the bill could have contained funding clauses for equipment, scientific & engineering innovation, education for JQ workers. In the case of alternative energy, the government probably has to buy all the energy produced by the new business at a certain price too. This would have been very lucrative and a fixed funding stream for JQ.

 

 

If I remember correctly, the renewable energy plant is a collaboration between JQ and the government. JQ will build and manage the plant.  Version 1 of bill (forced to put forth through Seo Hui, opposed by her father) would carve a national $95 billion wons budget to help JQ do this (either through bonds, loans, etc. for development/research and afterward, purchasing the said energy at a reduced rate once the factory is able to be in production.. we don't have all the details).  This is a common set up for many companies.  One such example is Tesla that operated its company majorly through grants by the government in the early years.

 

So for JQ to drop all of the above benefits/future profits for the right to purchase the land alone is super weird to the opposition party.  Jeong is hoping that it will show that JQ doesn't intend to profit from a government sponsored project to others.  The main contention at the first hearing is the exorbitant budget and how much benefits going to JQ from taxes and bonds.  One thing about passing the bill with only this clause ( allowing JQ to purchase the land:), the government may end up relinquishing all control to JQ.

[Nanana85]

Behind the scenes video eps 9-10. And yun jeong suk (hogyu) already saying goodbye words 

 

 

Still cut eps 9-10

 

 

[bebebisous33]

By the way, I don't think that JQ did some experiment on the orphans but I am suspecting that the place of the waste disposal might have been close to the orphanage.

[taeunfighting]

17 hours ago, AC95 said:

Yes, this whole exchange makes one's skin crawl. Props to Yeong-min's actor, On Joo-wan for being able to switch between the company 'mask' and show glimmers of his conscience. His tug of war with In Dong-gu is entertaining as hell and yes, it would be satisfying for him to turn against the Chairman, he's such a wildcard...

 

@AC95 The story did get more interesting once YM made himself seen as equal competition to IDG. I especially enjoyed the part where YM played his cards well and bluffed IDG into thinking that he has Sang Hun when it became clear to YM that IDG did not. I think that's where he started to get IDG's attention.

 

At the moment, I do think YM has more pull in the game. Unlike IDG, YM plays his relationships well. He's right that IDG's weakness is that he can only think with one emotion/one mind: savageness. That's how he lost his alliance with Hong to YM. With Hong now on his side, YM is able to gain all kinds of information on IDG. With the nuances of the bill coming forth, I hope the timing of Hong’s alliance with him will also be advantageous for YM to discretely help Seo Hui. Seo Hui has Tae Sik helping her with the investigation, but she needs someone else to help her on the business and political front. I’m hoping this person can be YM with his position as CEO and connections to Hong. YM also has the advisor on his side. He had helped YM with his alibi to the chairman and informs him about the tails the chairman sets on him. Noticed how the advisor was questioning the chairman between YM and IDG, of the two, who does he plan to take the fall? He’s fishing and sharing the chairman’s moves with YM. Through the advisor, I think YM may be able to protect himself from the fall or at least break it. It could be that in the grand schemes of things, IDG and the chairman are underestimating YM’s abilities.

 

16 hours ago, bedifferent said:

Ohhh I forgot about this... What was YM doing or where was he going in black outfit disguise?  Why was he washing his hands?  Those missing hours?  The repairman jacket? What's his story

 

@bedifferent All these questions about YM have been bugging me as well. Whatever it is that YM is up to, I hope it’s something we never suspected and mind-blowing in the end.

 

3 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

By the way, I don't think that JQ did some experiment on the orphans but I am suspecting that the place of the waste disposal might have been close to the orphanage.

 

@bebebisous33 That's very likely. Your thoughts on this would also fit the running theme of the chairman. He presents himself as charitable to the orphanage, but in truth, he knowingly harms them.

[imgreatgal]

On 11/11/2019 at 6:22 PM, triplem said:

Now that I rewatch with subs...and the built of the guy does look like YDY ...but the way that HG addressed him felt rather informal for someone who was his previous boss. But of course this may be to throw us off.  I am wondering what dirt IDG has on YDY that it would pressure him so much to resort killing his former subordinate ( assuming that was YDY ) . I can see that YDY missed his team when they were all dispersed, so I am wondering if he would be able to do it. 

Interesting,  I'm not too verse with Korean language. I feel we have been slowly fed with the idea that YDY is the bad guy in the team. Either he's corrupted or being pressured by the higher ups. The scene at the end of ep10 showing someone with his built and wearing his type of shoes and clothing somehow confirmed our suspicion. 

 

I was thinking that was too obvious. Maybe the writer will spring another surprise.

When HoGyu was in his office a call came in to one of the guy there asking about security camera defect. It sounded like the person calling is someone from within the police department and he must have faxed in a copy of the report. The guy went to the fax machine picked up the report and was annoyed and said: You should be calling 'digital analysis division, you should know that by now' and dumped the report in the bin.  I felt suspicious the fax came in right where HoGyu was sitting and HoGyu heard everything.  When the guy said 'you should know that by now' i felt the person intention was for HoGyu to find the report.  I think like TaeSik, HoGyu was monitored too.

 

I felt the meeting between HoGyu and TaeSik was planned. TaeSik was just suspended and they know he would not stop investigating so they have to get rid of him. When they killed HoGyu and place TaeSik;s gun at the scene they make it looked like TaeSik shot HoGyu. Okay!!!! but why? Why would TaeSik shoot his former team mate?

They have to convince the people and media on TaeSik's motive. HoGyu is and IT guy and he learned earlier on from his superior about hacking and such. Possible motive would be TaeSik found out HoGyu deleted cctv footage of SeoHui's accident went to confront HoGyu and they argued and TaeSik shot him. If this is true then they killed two birds with one stone, killed HG and make TaeSik a suspect. 

[bedifferent]

Lee Minki the big teddy bear

 

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