[Drama 2019] Everyone’s Lies/The Lies Within, 모두의 거짓말

[nrllee]

Yeah vets have everything needed to perform enucleation too .  At least that one was done under anaesthesia.  
 

But why use the butcher’s knife to chop off the hand?  And then plant it to implicate KPY?  Unless it was for shock effect since it was being  videoed and streamed to SHui?  Actually only IDG had remote access (via his hacker guy) to stream it to SHui?  Were the amputations and enucleation done by the same guy?
 

Poor HG.  
 

EDIT - so maybe IDG did the hand amputation - he needed SHui to pass the bill to benefit his land purchases.  The vet did the enucleation of the eye seeing he delivered it and had the medical expertise and instruments to do it.  Did YM do the foot?  Seeing he’s the one with the jacket?

[taeunfighting]

1 hour ago, bedifferent said:

I will also hold out hope that YM may do something right at the end although at this point, he is willing to be an accomplice to murders for the CEO position and have no remorse about his friend CSH's death.

 

@bedifferent I know what you mean by YM not remorseful about CSH’s death. Since it was shown in front of IDG, I’m hoping that it was YM just playing along with IDG faking his loyalty to JQ.

 

YM had betrayed CSH and Sang Hun, but he didn’t kill KSC and KPY and if it’s true that he’s not behind the cutting, I feel the potential for him to reconsider his loyalty to JQ and head back on the right path is not too far gone. By him seeing how ruthless the chairman is to commit murder, use him as a scapegoat and putting Seo Hui in danger for the sake of the bill (who the chairman supposedly claims to care for like his own child), I’m hoping he’ll consider CSH’s final words to leave to JQ. The chairman had said to the advisor that he values YM’s quick wit. I hope YM’s quick wit will bite the chairman in the end.

 

If he missed the chances to save CSH and Sang Hun, maybe it's not too late for him to save Seo Hui.

[bebebisous33]

@taeunfighting @bedifferent Strangely, I would prefer YM remaining loyal to the chairman till the end than switching the side in the last moment because he disagrees with KSH's murder. So far, he even betrayed and abandoned his lover CSH and this person loved him. To feel remorse in the last moment and bring down the chairman doesn't suit my taste because so far, JYM is well aware of the number of casualties: the victims of the environmental pollution, the death of CSH and KCH, now the death of a police officer... The list of victims is so long and each time, JYM turned a blind eye to it for the sake of his survival.

 

On the other side, I would rather like IDG to abandon the chairman. Why? IDG resents his father because he considered the accident as his father's fault. Due to his mistake, he lost his position and his self-respect. IDG jumped to the conclusion that money is everything. Besides, the chairman showed a certain tolerance and magnanimity as he accepted the son of the driver who was the reason for his son's loss. In his eyes, the chairman appears more open-minded. But what if everything he thought was a lie? The chairman covered up something. It would be interesting to discover that in reality, his father was not to blame for the accident... and the so called generosity was just fake. So far, I do think that IDG views the chairman as a surrogate father. 

[nrllee]

Just watched Ep 10.  Seems rather odd that JQ Hospital is treating the patients if they were the cause of the disease in the first place.  But I guess that makes sense if they want to cover up all the facts that it was JQ that caused the illnesses in the first place.  It would ring alarm bells that children so young were dying of lung cancer.

 

If the boy’s father was a vet... he would know it was highly unusual for a young boy to get lung cancer, especially seeing he doesn’t smoke.  So it does seem to imply that somehow JQ is responsible for causing this cancer cluster and they are trying to purchase the land so no one can join the dots and dig around and find the root cause of the illnesses in the first place.

 

The village looks to be a farming community, they would need water for irrigation which in turn would feed their crops and that would affect the community.  And the river that @bedifferent pointed out was probably their water supply.  Environmental contamination by waste is likely what caused the cancer cluster.  JQ is trying to bury that fact.  Question is the parcel of land they want to purchase inclusive of all the little dots (cancer cluster)?  Could this be the chairman’s attempt to “right the wrongs”?  As if to say, “JQ is the cause of it, so we will buy off the land and force the farming communities out away from the contaminated land and thereby satisfy our consciences that we are righting the wrong we did”?     I know it’s a bizarre way to think but big companies can have wayward moral compasses.  

[bedifferent]

2 hours ago, taeunfighting said:

If he missed the chances to save CSH and Sang Hun, maybe it's not too late for him to save Seo Hui.

 

I was thinking it will be Seo Hui who might salvage YM's last shred of conscience.  The way it is going, Seo Hui may oppose the new bill to block JQ from buying the land so YM would have to reevaluate his feelings for her.  What YM and Jeong do not know is IDK owns those parcels of land.  He may trump them at the end.  His real intentions will be revealed soon, either his move is the hidden card to oust YM or take the final revenge on Jeong, the man who ruined his family.

 

49 minutes ago, nrllee said:

Just watched Ep 10.  Seems rather odd that JQ Hospital is treating the patients if they were the cause of the disease in the first place.  But I guess that makes sense if they want to cover up all the facts that it was JQ that caused the illnesses in the first place.  It would ring alarm bells that children so young were dying of lung cancer.

 

Yeah it's quite a plan by JQ to appear charitable and treat the sick patients when in fact, they are burying the causes for the death.  Maybe CSH got a hold of the hospital records belonged to these pts.  It's more than possible that JQ's workers could be sick too thus the reason to provide medical care inhouse.

 

What are the chances that Sang Hoon is kept in JQ hospital's basement?  If this is indeed the work of a vigilant group, it makes poetic justice in a sense.

 

1 hour ago, bebebisous33 said:

On the other side, I would rather like IDG to abandon the chairman. Why? IDG resents his father because he considered the accident as his father's fault. Due to his mistake, he lost his position and his self-respect. IDG jumped to the conclusion that money is everything. Besides, the chairman showed a certain tolerance and magnanimity as he accepted the son of the driver who was the reason for his son's loss. In his eyes, the chairman appears more open-minded. But what if everything he thought was a lie? The chairman covered up something. It would be interesting to discover that in reality, his father was not to blame for the accident... and the so called generosity was just fake. So far, I do think that IDG views the chairman as a surrogate father. 

 

I like this reasoning   Don't forget his wall and land deals!

 

@40somethingahjumma I wonder how much of this physical trauma affects Sang Hoon's mental state and psychological health being.  The old Sang Hoon couldn't even deal with a fingernail, here he is losing limbs and eyesight.  After the initial shock, his survival instinct must have kicked in.  We hope he will survive but I fear for his wellbeing and trust toward others, including his wife.  And we are not even talking about physical intimacy in a marriage.  

 

Drivers of both cars that hit KSC and his dtr KSH wears black shoes with white sole.

 

 

Spoiler

Like this guy 

 

 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

Noooooo... HG... the poor kid... So soon as well. Why?  Wasn't a fan at first but he came to love the team and be a significant contributor.

 

After that last episode (really good by the way) I'm wondering two things:

1) Are we looking at a cancer cluster in the area? @bedifferent What are your thoughts? There's something in the land that's causing people to get sick. Like as someone suggested last week... something along the lines of toxic or nuclear waste. Or did someone find uranium there? 

Or 

2) Highly illegal experiments or activities that involve children. Presumably Yeon U's dad is doing some seriously hinky stuff with animals in the lab when S-Hui rang in. Interesting that YU who died of cancer was adopted.  So are they using orphans? That would tie in with the orphanage.

The shamanistic rituals fit into this because the locals believe that there's evil around them that needs warding off. They know that something is going on but it's inexplicable so far.

 

So what is JQ's primary business earner? Is it really energy? It seems like they own medical facilities too. Hospitals etc.

 

There is something really odd about the chairman. His movements seem a bit twitchy and he comes across as being mentally unstable at times. There's also a disturbing edge to his paternalism. 

 

All the nasty stuff aside I really love seeing this side of LJH. (Yes, yes I'm a broken record) He looked so charming with the boy and his pup. I almost wish he would do more rom coms. The chat with SHui about having kids was also adorable... good to see another side to her as well... but more importantly it gave us insight into their marriage. I always wondered why they didn't have kids after being married for so long. She wasn't a career oriented wife either. Neither of them were particularly ambitious. 

I am glad though that the more I see of SHun the more we see that he is/was a decent man doing his best to make things right. I'm glad for SHui that retracing his footsteps has given us that particular perspective especially when there's so much evil around them

 

It's clear that Choi SY opened Pandora's Box and the people behind it are scrambling to apply damage control. We have finally some insight into why an entertainment reporter was investigating JQ. She wasn't one to begin with. She uncovered the tip of an iceberg. It is a sad indictment of the corruption that the people who did any real investigation into JQ are all ordinary people... low level cops, reporters, and politicians.

 

What did JQ do for all its minions that when it says "jump", they're happy to say "how high?" 

[bedifferent]

@40somethingahjumma JQ history as a metal, steel, constructions, chemical company raises all the red flags here.  Given the company was founded in 1980s, I think we are looking at a period where corruption in the government was noticeably high and regulatory agencies were much laxer back then.  It might be a combination of JQ rubbing elbows with government officials during the booming years when they expanded rapidly and the lack of health awareness about these wastes. Yes, metal/chemical wastes have drastic effects on the human body DNA.  Heavy metal toxicities are real, can disrupt the organ functions, cause cellular damages or even be genototoxic. Environmental pollution is quite high in metal based industry.  Human exposure can be from soil erosions where the metals are leaching into the ground water and carry into the food/water source of the town people.

 

JQ's main goal is seize the contaminated land to prevent anyone from finding out its past wrongdoings.  The other option is to admit to its wrongdoings, pay restitution , faces financial ruins, etc...  For a man like Jeong with no real family left, it's more about his and the company's legacy than money.

 

 

[liltash85]

I think the delivery man who send the eye to Bareun News is Go Hyeon Wu father. I am almost sure of it based on his chin bone and lips structure. 

[nrllee]

Just saying @bedifferent, if ever I get some obscure medical condition that my regular doctors are befuddled about, imma gonna send you all my medical files for you to hunt down differentials .  
 

Yes and the problem with soil contamination of chemical wastes is that you can’t get rid of it any time soon. You can’t exactly build over it either.  I would hazard a guess to say that their desire to “build an energy plant” over the site is also hogwash.  It’s already not one conducive to renewables like solar or wind so chances are even after the purchase they would leave it untouched with the excuse that it was a “mistake” or they “ran out of money” or some other cover. 

[AC95]

Ah Ho-gyu, Ho-gyu, you will always be a part of this team. When Jin-gyeong pulled your ears and you laughed about getting back together as a team... When you had the 1337 hax0rz battle with JQ's cyber-minion... When you waved from the sidewalk saying "I'll wait".... 

 

Ep 10 was so meaningful and yet so hard to watch at the same time. Loved Tae-sik's 'great escape' from surveillance at his apartment. Loved that Seo-hui is coming into her own as the people's representative, able to tap on the trust that the locals have and get them to share with her. Loved that Seo-hui opened up to Tae-sik while they were driving, and that he could so clearly understand Sang-hun's frame of mind. He and Seo-hui will be resilient and resourceful together.

 

More speculation on the conspiracy - the idea of this being a waste leakage issue, with known victims, is solidifying.

Reproducing the last 2 bullets of @bebebisous33's list post Ep 9:

- 2001: Jeonggeon Chemicals

- 2003: a new factory in North Gyeongsang Province

 

So JQ has a history of being in the chemicals and refining business, while also having a history in Songju (previously thought they were new to the area). Now that we are aware that the cancer / mystery illness cases are in Songju itself, and the the Renewable Energy Bill specifically names Songju, concur with fellow watchers that the mapped circles are probably past waste burial sites, not prospective ones.

 

We see from the plaque behind the Chairman when talking to Yeong-min that JQ stands for "Justified Qualification". Well not for long, huh. I wondered what JQ's new business "E&F" stands for. Did anyone see the expanded title or other clues? E could stand for a host of things - energy, electricity, environment, enrichment - but F is more interesting. 'Fuel'?

 

I'm still partial to it being tied up in energy-derived waste and not just generic chemicals, because that would make it easier to push through under the Bill and be neater narratively (sorry for bias, though I would love any other outcome equally given the quality of the writing in this show). I also feel that they want to tie this into current affairs because climate change and energy provenance are topical. One possibility is that JQ was previously involved in disposal and intermediate storage of fuel rods from Korea's existing nuclear plants. The map indicates some terrain where the red circles are, which could work if it's a seismically stable area. Having a cement factory nearby could also have helped in building containment. So the waste would not have initially been in the farmland, but as discussed by @bedifferent @nrllee and others, been leached down into the water table.

 

Imagine you are JQ and an opportunity arises to retrieve fuel rods to generate nuclear energy. It's called fuel recycling and can actually turn waste back into energy (https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/fuel-recycling/processing-of-used-nuclear-fuel.aspx) .

 

You're killing multiple birds with one stone:

• Clawing back all the nasty stuff you put into the ground in Songju
• Getting into a new business of fuel generation (which could at a stretch be called 'renewable', because you're recycling, right?), which will be lucrative in the long-term

The only thing is, you must suppress all evidence of there ever having been leaks. 

 

Now that we have seen the vet (thanks for the caps @triplem and observation on the IV @bedifferent, I think it is plausible that...

Spoiler

...the veterinarian dad and Sang-hun are in on it together. I wondered whether it had initially been revenge (i.e. Sang-hun an unwilling victim). It's possible that vet-dad's account to Seo-hui and Tae-sik is untruthful. But if the very empathetic relationship between Sang-hun, the little boy and his dad was real, I don't think dad's first reaction would have been to kidnap and torture Sang-hun. My feeling is that all the amputations were carried out by him, although maybe the first one was staged to be rough as it had to be carefully choreographed for the film sent to Seo-hui.

On Sang-hun's pain tolerance - I think Sang-hun's attitude toward pain changed in the course of meeting those ill children, and tipped over the edge when the reporter was murdered. In Ep 1 we saw him punching the glass, oblivious to his own pain, and showing virtually no reaction when the book his father-in-law threw at him drew blood. Respectfully, I would say he is not the same kid that cried over losing a fingernail.

 

Man I adore this show.

[ktcjdrama]

O gosh! I am left feeling so angry at ep.10!! So disappointed!!! Starting with the poor editing and building up to that last scene of the episode.... Argghhh!!! ~ almost made me want to ditch the show. I actually unconsciously off the phone I was watching the episode on before it actually ends and threw my phone to the side (was on the bed).

 

My rant in spoiler, proceed at own risk of ruining your mood. The episode managed to ruin my mood for today.

Spoiler

Firstly, the death of JHG ~ seriously, was that really necessary? I already guessed he won't live since he saw "the face" but can't we have the team intact at the end of everything? A maknae too, who just realized his attachment to his team. But I guess the team can never be intact since the Team Leader is not with them anymore. And I guess it is showing on OCN so I should expect deaths from protagonist side... but still, arrrrgghhhhh!!!

 

Next, is the editing. I really think it is very poorly done. I don't know if it was done purposely to throw us the viewers off the timeline, or just really poor editing. Why need to throw us off the timeline like that though? So I am inclined to think that it is poor editing.

1) When JTS and KSH were visiting the villagers. This was interlaced with Jin Gyeong and Ho Gyu meeting on the street. She went to his apartment in the evening, but then the scene changed to JTS and KSH at the village during day time. Ho Gyu even went to the station the next day and get advice how to restore the hacked laptop, and JTS-KSH still at village, day time. So two days have passed for in Seoul while in Songju, it was still happening in a day?

2) When KSH dropped off JTS at the bus stop. He sat there mulling before getting a call from Ho Gyu. But with KSH, we're shown that she reached home, called the boy's father, and went to office (should I say leaving the office at night?) So a work-day has passed in her life and JTS still sitting at the bus stop?

 

What's going on with the editing?!?!

And what's with the occupation of the boy's father as a vet? How will that come into play later on? (Edit: just read previous page, so he could be the person with medical background in removing the eye of Sang Hun, if so, he is one twisted fake person, he probably didn't love his adopted son at all. Sang Hun is the person who showed much care and concern for the son!)

[anony12345]

I've enjoyed these last two episodes more than the previous couple.

 

It felt odd to have such minimal dialogue between the two main leads for the first half of the show so it's good to see them working together more, also happy we got more on the ML's background. 

 

Ho-gyu's killer you feel like has to be their captain, even the hands looked a bit chubby - but it just feels too obvious. Not sure who else it could have been though (especially with that reaction from Ho-gyu when he saw him) and if they planted the ML's gun there it's someone with access to the police as he would have handed it in when suspended? I was surprised when they mentioned his gun was found at the scene in the preview as surely he would have had to have handed it in when suspended and you can't carry in SK?

 

I also don't think they could have made the dad of the kid who died look more sinister when the FL called him

[cherriesblue]

I am so disappointed with what happened.   He is a smart character why did he have to die? I really wwnt the team to solve the case. It rmeinded me of eun Soo dying in Stranger.  The team would benefit from his skills.  

 

It is also obvious that Taesik is not the killer. Because he surrendered his gun when he was demoted and suspended.  Which means it is someone from thr police. Based on the hand since i am watching with others, they said it looked like their Captain. Aaargh

[40somethingahjumma]

It's ironic looking back at the first episode how reluctantly the team came together. Tae-shik didn't even want to take the case then. He was cajoled into it by YDY. HG was kind of blackmailed into being part of the team. The first episode revisited now seems to be tinged with so much foreboding. Even with the flimsy attempts at humour at the start seem poignant in light of what we witnessed in Episode 10. HG who didn't even like his colleagues or want to part of the investigative team falls victim to an ugly conspiracy because he missed the team and wanted to relive some of the excitement of being part of something bigger than himself. TS was ready to leave and live the quiet life... was dragged into handling this piece of dynamite because of his usual methodical approach to investigation. Perhaps YDY thought TS would go through the motions and sign off on it because he was past caring about real detective work but it seems he underestimated the nature of the complexity of the situation and TS' dedication to policing in large part due to his background. A man has gone missing and his family is looking for him. It's like a page out of his biography.

 

I thought it might be instructive to take another look at Episode 1 because there was so much in the earlier episodes that I probably missed. Plus I'm lying in bed possibly nursing a bug. 

 

My thinking at this point is that SH is still alive. I'd say there's a high possibility he's cooperating with his captor(s) now. It may not have started that way when his left hand was axed but whether it's Stockholm Syndrome or a means of survival to prove his sincerity, I suspect at least the latest act of mutilation, the enucleation, was done with his consent. 

Whether that's the case it's at least something that needs to be considered anyway. SHun may not have started things but he may have decided to throw his lot in with whomever is targeting JQ in what is likely to be a revenge plot. 

There is some possibility that IDG could be part of the counter-conspiracy but he does seem unfailingly loyal to the chairman in protecting the big secret and doesn't seem to have too many qualms getting his hands dirty even if he's mysophobic and he doesn't seem to know where SHun is.  So it's unlikely.  I don't think YM is involved either because he seems to have well and truly hitched his wagon to the JQ train. 

 

YM is undoubtedly one of the most complex figures in this sorry state of affairs if not the most. He's very comfortable being the chairman's right hand man. I don't think he particularly wants to be CEO as such as long as he is seen to be of use to the chairman who is more of a father-figure to him than SHun did. We've certainly looked at him from various angles but it's true that he prioritizes protecting the chairman's interests first and foremost largely because he changed the trajectory of his life. Compared to where he started as a nobody, he is now a trusted (well... in so far as the chairman trusts people) aide to a king. It isn't just about material benefits. His entire identity revolves around the chairman and the JQ "empire". I don't he can bear the thought of severing himself off the teat. I don't even think he believes he has betrayed anyone... his ex or SHun because his loyalty is first and foremost to the chairman. I think he has and always will see himself as the chairman's son. Therefore even if he doesn't enjoy the emotional turmoil that exists within him because of these conflicts of interests, he knows clearly where his priorities lie. He may angst and weep over the loss of a woman he may have loved or the loss of a friend, but the chairman always comes first. His corruption comes from his desire to please an insidious role model. His is the road to hell.

 

I don't doubt that there's some kind of link between what's going on now and TS' sister. I still believe even with the cancer cluster and long-term waste poisoning element, there's some really disturbing activities going on with children. I just don't think it's that simple.

 

 

 

[nrllee]

41 minutes ago, anony12345 said:

I was surprised when they mentioned his gun was found at the scene in the preview as surely he would have had to have handed it in when suspended and you can't carry in SK?

yeah I thought that was a given. You hand in your badge and gun.  Kinda obvious who planted it there.  But if higher ups are involved, then chances are they will ignore discrepancies and bury it in paperwork.  What’s more, I can’t see how they can pin it on TaeSik?  What’s his motive to gun HG down?  Vengeance that HG signed the document and ratted him out? 

 

 @ktcjdrama Editing was a bit off this ep.  Maybe they are having problems time wise to fit the scenes in (are they live shooting?).  I must admit I wasn’t paying that much attention to day/night scenes.  I just watched looking for plot developments. 

[ktcjdrama]

8 minutes ago, nrllee said:

@ktcjdrama Editing was a bit off this ep.  Maybe they are having problems time wise to fit the scenes in (are they live shooting?).  I must admit I wasn’t paying that much attention to day/night scenes.  I just watched looking for plot developments. 

I can't help but pay attention to the time now since we're putting together a timeline to understand the lies within

[tiMadam]

28 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

I can't help but pay attention to the time now since we're putting together a timeline to understand the lies within

I didn't notice the timeline either until I read your comment.

I assume the days are not  in sequence. It could be HG and JG met on different days before HG finds the info.

[bedifferent]

@ktcjdrama I think what we saw on screen is events over 2 days and a recollection of the past event.

 

1) When JTS and KSH were visiting the villagers. This was interlaced with Jin Gyeong and Ho Gyu meeting on the street. She went to his apartment in the evening, but then the scene changed to JTS and KSH at the village during day time. Ho Gyu even went to the station the next day and get advice how to restore the hacked laptop, and JTS-KSH still at village, day time. So two days have passed for in Seoul while in Songju, it was still happening in a day?

 

- I think the visit to the village took at least 2 days cuz Seo Hui is dressed differently.  She wore a dark top with tan coat one day and a salmon colored sweatshirt the next day. JG met HG during her day shift, went to drop off chicken and beer afterwork.  HG got tips from his supervisor on how to reverse hack the computer the next morning then went home to work on it.  When he called TS, it was at night on the second day after TS/SH visited the vet.  

 

TS also changed from black hoodie to black bomber jacket.

 

2) When KSH dropped off JTS at the bus stop. He sat there mulling before getting a call from Ho Gyu. But with KSH, we're shown that she reached home, called the boy's father, and went to office (should I say leaving the office at night?) So a work-day has passed in her life and JTS still sitting at the bus stop?

 

-in her chance meeting with the congressman, her forehead is not bandaged and she has no facial scratches.  Wounds don’t heal completely overnight.We also see her in the preview with bandages still so I think the mtg was in the past, not the next day.  

[ktcjdrama]

@bedifferent thanks for pointing out the different outfit of KSH. So they were visiting the villagers on two separate days... which doesn’t make sense to me since the house of the vet was pointed out to them the day before (my mind asking how did TS ditch the tailing Internal Affairs team for the second day out?) but I’ll go with it for now. So it seems they did want to throw us off the timeline a bit. But the flashback of her at the office lobby was so off too... 

 

Maybe because I was too emotional over HG’s death so I failed to go back and check the outfit. Haha, I failed at the investigative work because I let emotions get the better of me

[imgreatgal]

I watched ep10 earlier on felt kind of miserable because HongYu died and the team split up and YDY gone rogue. where is this going now?

 

Some of you have already brought up interesting points. I wasn't able to re watch as I normally did but some thing crossed my mind. 

 

Why did SangHun and ChoSuYeon meet at the train station? What is the significance of that station? I believe it is an old station and no longer operational. Could the train station have been used to transport toxic waste from JO's plants to Sonju in the past?

 

From what I understand, YeonU is an adopted child of the vet. I didn't see the mother when SeoHui and TaeSik visited them and also when he died at the hospital? He died on Feb 5 2019 that's less than 2 weeks before ChoSuYeon alleged suicide.

 

I'm wondering now if the other names on the list are also adoptees and that maybe JQ is running someone kind of experiment.

 

I'm not too verse with the land matters. There seems to be some issue with passing of the bill and the chairman tells Hong to concede even if they will lose billions. Meaning JQ will purchase the land without the Renewable Energy Business. So the chairman is trying very hard to protect the land?