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[Drama 2019] When the Camellia Blooms, 동백꽃 필무렵


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42 minutes ago, cosmogirl77 said:

I'm assuming Yeong Sim is actually a grandma,

I'm actually more interested in knowing who Yeong-sim than the joker. :lol: I mean, the joker is the joker. Whoever he is, I'm not that curious as long as he's caught in the end.  But in the case of Yeong-sim, I've always been curious about who she is. At one point, while watching Episode 11 last night, I was like, "My God, Yong-sik! Can't you just pay Yeong-sim a visit?!?!" :lol:

 

42 minutes ago, cosmogirl77 said:

Could it be that Hyang Mi was actually killed by the pimp rather than the Joker? 

I'm suspecting the police officers will be forced to apprehend the pimp cause he has motive and Dong-baek as witness saw him threaten Hyang-mi. But we all know Yong-sik knows better so he'll continue to investigate the joker. 

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7 hours ago, Isache said:

Annyeong, I'm a fan of this drama and like all, I'm dying of the suspense as to who the killer is. Thus, I decided to check out this site for updates. After last night episode, pls allow me to share my guess. I'm pretty sure the killer isn't HS (Heung-Sik aka the CCTV installation guy). This is because Hyang Mi called the guy in the dark alley "Ahjussi". As we all know, this is term used to address someone who is an elderly and HS seems younger than Hyang Mi. My guess is this elderly guy named "Han Tae Hee". Reasons being:

 

1) The dry chillies was next to Hyang Mi when she was led to the room by the "Joker". And we know the guy that offers her the accommodation is Joker because of the burnt mark under the table.  In ep 1, we saw him sunning the same dry chillies in the alley and it was run over by a bicycle when Dong Baek first moved in. 

 

2) In ep 8, Dongbaek refused to close her shop after the wall scrawling as an act of defiance as she believed that "Joker" will be checking her out soon to see her reaction to it. And later, we were brought to the scene where a group of patrons were gathering around the newly installed CCTV, one of them was Han Tae Hee. 

 

3) In ep 8, he was one of the guys in captured in the CCTV video footage which Yong-sik was studying. According to Captain Byun, the Joker must have saw the CCTV being installed and he would have been one of those in the video. 

 

4) In ep 9, Dongbaek flashed back to the time where she first started and the first two customers that came in are Han Tae Hee and Song Jin Bae. That scene somewhat felt that there were more to it than just two ordinary patrons. I believe the "Joker" wanted to check out Dongbaek after learning of her identity from the press (after his last killing) just like he came to check out Dongbaek's reaction after scrawling on her wall.      

 

5) Lastly, Han Tae Hee fits the term "Ahjussi".

Yes, when we saw Heung Sik at the end, it was clear that he couldn't be the Joker. Your theory sounds very good to me. It fits the profile that the serial killer would be someone who is dominated at home and is very frustrated due to that. But like @40somethingahjumma said, I have also the impression that the Joker has come to appreciate DB and has decided to "protect" her. From my point of view, the Joker might have changed his mindset hence the killing is starting again. Back then, maybe he was protecting another woman, until he had to kill DB, as she was a witness. He failed but deep down, he might have disliked it because he only killed people in order to punish them. That's why he observed her first in order to know if she would recognize him and got attached to her...

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Ep 12

 

Favorite Scenes

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    • When Dong-baek's mom offered Yong-sik beer because she knew Jong-ryeol's gifts for Pil-gu and the comments about him having a rich parent now must have hurt Yong-sik
    • "She's just a bald girl who poops." - Pil-gu :lol:
    • Ms. Kwak is the boss of Ongsan. Two of the strongest women in Ongsan have titles: Hong Ja-yeong, future governor of Ongsan. Ms. Kwak, boss of Ongsan. 
    • "I'm the reason why she looks pretty." :heart: Yong-sik is hot when he's wearing shades and saving children, but also when he's confident like this. 
    • Ms Kwak: "Don't do anything to apologize in the first place!" I mean, right?! Preach Ms. Kwak. Did you hear that, Dong-baek? Did you?! Dong-baek has a son so she knows how Ms. Kwak must be feeling about everything that's happening. Dong-baek should step up and protect Yong-sik too. 
    • Hyang-mi and Dong-baek had a nice final moment at least. Forget-me-not. 

     

     

 

Thoughts:

  • Spoiler

     

    • Kind of sucks that Jong-ryeol is still doing Return of Superman even if he knows it will hurt Pil-gu
    • Hyang-mi blames other people for not letting her live a better life, but actually, she's been digging a hole for herself. If she needs money, why does she resort to blackmailing instead of just borrowing money? Can't she ask Dong-baek nicely? I'm sure if Dong-baek knew about her problem, she'd let her borrow the money Jong-ryeol gave her. So her situation is the result of her own doing plus that of others as Dong-baek said prejudice limits people's lives. It's a combination of both. Dong-baek also had to live with those prejudices but she chose to be a good person. 
    • How annoying was Dong-baek's "Why did someone steal from me?" line? Uhmmm maybe because you didn't hide the money and trust someone who can't be trusted? It's not like no one warned Dong-baek. Why be reckless and trusting when she'd cry if she lost the money anyway? I'm so sorry... but she's annoying in Episodes 11 and 12.
    • Hyang-mi's brother is an richard simmons. 
    • I'm taking Ms. Kwak's side because I understand how painful it must be to see your son have to deal with his girlfriend's ex. Why can't Dong-baek and Jong-ryeol just sit down to arrange how they'll co-parent and set boundaries? Dong-baek told him not to come but then texts him to come get the money, when she also previously said she's borrowing it and will return it to him in the future. Yong-sik is the one who's stuck in the middle because of Dong-baek and Jong-ryeol's inability to deal with whatever's going on between them. Also, if I were Ms. Kwak, I would expect Dong-baek to protect Yong-sik from everything about her past that could hurt him, the same way that Yong-sik protects her and builds her up. Instead, we see her just sitting on the table while Jong-ryeol yells at Yong-sik. 
    • But Jong-ryeol sucks here too because he's planning to take Pil-gu.
    • The joker on the phone is coughing.

     

 

 

So many annoying things in Episode 12 - Dong-baek's weakness, Jong-ryeol's pettiness, and Hyang-mi's issues. :unamused:

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7 hours ago, lollyminx said:

I'm sure if Dong-baek knew about her problem, she'd let her borrow the money Jong-ryeol gave her.

...

How annoying was Dong-baek's "Why did someone steal from me?" line? Uhmmm maybe because you didn't hide the money and trust someone who can't be trusted?

 

From what she said at the end, I think Dong-baek left the money there on purpose, knowing that Hyang-mi needed it and actually hoping she would take it.  I think her lamenting about the loss was for show.

 

Hyang-mi didn't seem to feel at all uneasy sleeping at Joker?'s place.  I guess he's someone she would never suspect.

 

@cosmogirl77 Heung-sik is back with the cheaper cat food in this episode.  (This is the clover-shaped one, @ktcjdrama)

 

Heung-sik and his dad are so suspicious, but it still feels like a red herring to me.  I got the impression that Heung-sik wears gloves all the time to cover up something on his hands, a disfigurement or something.  And I felt like he locked the hardware store, even when his dad was there, because his dad is an invalid or disabled (with a cough!).  Have to wait and see.

 

So much going on in this episode.  I enjoy following the stories of this town of characters.

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Dang, this past episode really made me turn against JR. I get that he's PG's father and everything, but leveraging PG against DB? After he's been absent for so long and PG has been raised upright, he wants to have complete authority over him and  potentially take him away from his mother? That's a whole bunch of BS. I didn't like when DB and YS were trying to completely exclude PG from JR's life, but it goes both ways. It might have been something he said out of frustration/jealousy, but to even say that makes me really question his character and whether I've been thinking that he's been misunderstood is actually correct. He could just be a dirt bag lol. (Bravo to Kim Ji Suk though. I still really like the actor! He's done an excellent job).

 

But really, who is he to tell DB how to live her life when his own life is in shambles. He can't communicate with his wife and doesn't even like her, but doesn't have the manhood to do anything about it. He can't keep up this "Best Father"  and "Wonderful Husband" charade. PG knows it too. In this past episode, PG said that he disliked "Superman" more because of how he appears to be a doting father on the show, but his actions and his image aren't lining up. PG doesn't call JR "Dad"; he calls him "Superman". JR thinks he's being a good father by providing for PG with the superficial goodies (like the back pack), but to be a good father, he needs to be PRESENT, not give presents.  That's the angle the writers are definitely going for. In the episode before this one, YS was the one who was present when PG got into that scruffle, and he was the one who got recognition from PG. That's what a real father does, not just from behind the scenes. JR doesn't seem to comprehend (yet) that if he wants to be a part of PG's life, he needs to do more. He can't just be in the shadows. To break his one sided thinking that money can get you anything, he may have to lose everything to see what really matters in his life. I don't think he's completely reconciled with the fact that even with all the riches that he appears to have, he's miserable. Like all the characters in this drama, I still have hope that he'll redeem himself and be able to get these messages through his thick skull. It wouldn't be character progression if he didn't have a lot to fix with in himself. 

 

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1 hour ago, ErikaJ said:

Dang, this past episode really made me turn against JR. I get that he's PG's father and everything, but leveraging PG against DB? After he's been absent for so long and PG has been raised upright, he wants to have complete authority over him and  potentially take him away from his mother? That's a whole bunch of BS. I didn't like when DB and YS were trying to completely exclude PG from JR's life, but it goes both ways. It might have been something he said out of frustration/jealousy, but to even say that makes me really question his character and whether I've been thinking that he's been misunderstood is actually correct. He could just be a dirt bag lol. (Bravo to Kim Ji Suk though. I still really like the actor! He's done an excellent job).

 

 

I agree! Hurray for Kim Ji Suk. And the child actor who plays PG is amazing. (Kim Kang-Hoon) I'm sure we've all seen him pop up somewhere before.

 

And yes, JR is being a little piece of doodoo. Ugh, I was so mad watching him.

 

Yes, he feels fatherly love and concern for PG, and he does have money. But he also wanted to ship DB and PG off to Boston to hide them from the public, too. He cannot handle his public image being damaged, in part because he cannot personally handle that, and also because that will affect his earnings. So he cannot raise PG like a real son. He will probably ship PG off to some boarding school abroad.

 

If he thinks DB needs more money to raise PG to his fancy standards, why doesn't he just send DB money for child support?

 

Anyway, this episode was a gut puncher in many ways. We see that Hyang-Mi has lived her whole life scraping whatever money she could by extorting people and working whatever job she can so that she can give her brother a chance at a better life. And when she needs her brother to help her, he turned his back on her. And all day long, people call her a loser or a piece of trash right to her face - Gyu-Tae, Jessica, people who are at least on some level, not so different from her in terms of being a little bit shady and loser-y themselves. Even though she acts tough, you can see that it deeply hurts her.

 

And let's not forget JR got upset with HM, too. Look in the mirror, dude, are you such a great person? I mean, I've really soured on him this week. I've been excusing his behavior because the revelation that he has an 8-yr-old son that he never knew about is disorienting, I'm sure. But he is being selfish and showing NO respect, and he's just got to shut his mouth.

 

At the end of the day, it's not clear that she was killed. She may have just committed suicide.

 

After all, the Joker called Camellia after Hyang-Mi had already left.

 

I take back the theory that Heung-Sik is the joker. I think it's his father. There's some reason HS locks up his home so his father can't get out when he leaves. I don't know what that reason is, but it sure was creepy.

 

--

 

My last comment is on how this show very astutely indicts bad parenting in general. We have those mean moms in Ep.11 insulting DB and HM when they were kids, and those kids learning to behave in exactly the same way. And of course, the a-hole cheating baseball coach, teaching his son that being a cheating jerk is the way to live life. And then you've got Gyu-Tae very clearly telling his mother that she is wrong for encouraging him to lie, and showing some amazing self-awareness now that Ja-Yeong has left him. (Of course, it is not cool that he hurt Hyang-Mi while he's having his self-revelation.) And of course you've got Jessica's mom encouraging her to suck JR's blood dry as she divorces him.

 

This was a heavy episode. Not a lot of YS+DB loveliness, and no Ja-Yeong glaring daggers at people.

 

Just... poor Hyang-Mi. Seeing the real reason she was so desperate for money was really sad, and how she was treated by her brother was just... awful. I feel terrible for her.

 

This show remains really good, however. It's just... good storytelling. The writer (Im Sang-Choon) has a very clear point-of-view. I really recommend both of her (his?) previous dramas if you have seen them, and you are suffering Camellia withdrawals until next week.

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3 minutes ago, chickfactor said:

It's just... good storytelling.

I agree. It's really solid. You get the sense that the writer truly focused on creating a story that makes sense here, not just for the sake of completing a drama. 

 

I know the writer worked on Fight for My Way, but you mentioned "both." What's the other drama she wrote? 

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I'm feeling so sad for Hyang Mi..:tears: she too like Dong Baek were dealt by the harsh hands of fate. However unlike Dong Baek, Hyang Mi lives her life quite cynically while also coveting Dong Baek's good hearted nature in rolling with the punches. 

 

So she does have a brother but a horribly ungrateful jerk.:angry: Say what you will of Hyang Mi..the fact she worked hard just to give her brother a decent life as well as caring for her sick grandma made me feel for her even more..:( It's too bad she stepped on too many toes. Although the people she offended just dread hearing what she was telling them - the truth.

 

I don't know why Jong Ryeol can't co-parent with Dong Baek!?:crazy: Their constant squabbling is not doing anyone any good, especially Pil Goo. And Jong Ryeol's constant need to upstage Yong Shik :rolleyes: like let it go already LoL. I understand where Mrs. Kwak is coming from but it was all Yong Shik in terms of who did the wooing y'know what I mean LoL. Dong Baek kept him at arm's length for the longest time but he like the pitbull he is kept persisting. Idk I just wish Mrs. Kwak, like Jong Ryeol stop butting in & trust for it to work it out themselves.. 

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This drama is not solely about romance or mystery.  Instead, it is excellent storytelling that adeptly weaved the  threads of  bias, unfairness, discrimination, romance, mystery, compassion, inequality, family, friendship, etc. all into one drama.

 

Excellent writing of great dialog.  Ordinary words that are, yet, so insightful, true, honest and impacting. 

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JR should figure his own life before butting in to DB and Pilgu's life. 

 

what is the point being pilgu's father in private if he can't also be pilgu's father in the public eyes. JR is coward. He should man up. 

 

this drama's storytelling is off the charts. totally loving it. :wub: Feels really realistic. 

 

 

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Hear hear @joccu JR is a punk. His wife is a proper gold digger, honey trap type, with a her nasty mother manipulating and egging her on. Granted there's huge stigma with certain things in Korean society but I agree no excuse man the f up. Right now he is not fit state to be Pilgu's dad he need to sort that sham for show marriage out first.

Felt a wee bit bad for lawyer lady because although initial reasons to marry Mr Sleezy wasn't the best in the end you can see she does care for him and he her.

 

But yeah this last episode was all about the Camelia crew. I laughed so hard when mum started wrapping her hands  ready to throw down. In her own way going a round trying to defend her daughter. Her getting DBs finger  print was a bit sus though but I'm hoping it's for a good reason, maybe she secretly rich and getting paperwork together so our girl won't be poor in the end (yeah yeah far fetch but I really hoping mum to come good she done enough damage already).

Now we know were vile barmaid picked up her bad habits, in mum's bar. That's how she learned to survived but she still about choices she was bound to run into trouble some day.

Of course the highlight YS  to the rescue hopefully now Pilgu will be more receptive to their relationship, his opinion is the only important one everyone else can go take a running jump. Here's hoping for happy end for our three some.  I'm thinking DB with a baby bump....Pilgu do it homework at the table and YS just walking in from finish a long shift looking all fine in his uniform....hey I can dream.:D:P

 

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This drama gets better and better and I love it:wub:. I hope it continues the same way until the end. Fingers crossed:D.

 

EP 11&12 was all about HM in general and I'm glad they explained her background in details; although, that doesn't excuse her actions. I have a feeling either Joker got to her or someone else did. I don't believe she committed suicide because she really meant what she told DB this time. But poor her, she didn't deserve to die. She just decided to live and come clean:tears:.

 

JR, I have no words to say about this Askj*"'#/;:krpst:crazy:. @joccu @tas82 and the rest of the Chingus, your words spoke the truth. WTH does he think he is to say that eventually PG will come to him? Excuse me, all because you have money???? Unbelievable:angry:. You want to be apart of your son's life, FINE.... But clean up your mess first. And for God's sake, respect the woman who gave birth to your son. Rant over:triumph:

 

I'm glad YS mom draw the line today and told DB that she won't tolerate her son being treated like that and he is also someone else's precious son. I know it's not DB fault with JR showing up and interfering in her and PG life but she has to draw the line herself because JR crossed the line couple of times and is not listening to logic<_<. And it looks like in the preview, things escalate to the point where YS is asking for a break up. This was bound to happen and it should be a wake up call for her. 

 

And speaking of a wake up call, GT finally got his act together and realized too late what he has done. I thought he was possessed when he was talking to HM like that lol:lol::sweatingbullets:

 

Someone else aka Jessica realized without being JR wife, she is nothing. I'm glad HM put her in her place when she insulted her. She really deserved to hear that they are the same type of people but with different circumstances. 

 

I want to know who this Yeung Shim is too lol. It can't be a coincidence for her to end up having the same problem as YS. Now we know that the Joker can't be a woman but I'm sure she knows something that will help YS get this guy. As for HS, he can't be the killer either because he doesn't cough; not to mention, HM called the joker "Ajusshi" so he is out of the list unless he is accomplice. So the suspects we have now is: the neighbors' husbands, HS dad, the police Chief and the academy director who was close to GT. From the preview, GT doesn't want YS to dig into the guy which is highly suspicious.

 

This became a long post lol:sweatingbullets:. Have a good day/night everyone^_^.

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On the subject of Kang Jeong-Ryeol, I just sigh in resignation. He wants control of his life and he misguidedly thinks he could have it if he could control his relationship with Pil-Gu and Dong-Baek as if he deserves it just because of a shared past and blood ties. He doesn't even bother trying to understand Pil-Gu's source of woes: I hurt because my mother is hurt because of me (and vice versa). His is not parenting, he is just "playing dad".  So, I don't want him anywhere near our Ongsan family. I want him to come back to his daughter and redeem himself by not abandoning her and her mom and not repeating his mistakes.

 

 

 

I like how the show informs us about the characters, gives bits and pieces here and there...
 

We kinda know way earlier who the victim already is... that as her life is revealed, her death just gets even more tragic. Even with the geranium bracelet, which had been thrown away, she it picked up -- not stolen -- as a memento from a loved one. She'd been able to survive a cruel world. Yet, when she's finally able to lower her guard and let another see her wounds and... as Gyu-Tae puts it, "live like a human..." her time is up? At least she finally knows and has got herself a home.

 

I've been thinking about Hyang-Mi, the stray cat -- cats have nine lives and she has expended hers. With that said, I have a hunch that Hyang-Mi isn't the Joker's victim. She's dumped far away, which isn't Joker's MO. Yet, with the way the show is structured, the murderer  has got to be the one caught in that last frame of episode 11, ie. the gangster.
 

And I just love how the show shows how family makes or breaks you... or both.

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