[Drama 2019] When the Camellia Blooms, 동백꽃 필무렵

[40somethingahjumma]

13 hours ago, chickfactor said:

 

I completely agree with you, but there are so many other things in this show that don't make sense.

 

For me, if a serial killer has written stuff on the walls of my business ONCE, I'm outta there. Especially if I'm raising a young child. I don't care how friendly my neighbors are, or how much the cute, local cop loves me. I'm MOVING OUT and the cute cop is going to have to follow me. Because I would like to not be murdered. But this happened twice, and there's DB, still making stir-fried pork in her shop every night.

 

 

8 hours ago, htk9207 said:

 

But everything changed the moment she was nearly offed at the market. It is no longer just a message on the wall. It wasn't even an accident since she was locked and YS was injured saving her. 

 

Which is why I wrote how upset I was because it was a completely foolish thing to do.

 

 

Oddly enough I gave this line of thinking some thought last night but I was too tired to respond. Long day. I see that @ktcjdrama gave a response and I was going to say something similar on that count. 

But as @htk9207 rightly points out there are two separate issues at play here. One is DB's decision to stay in Ongsan and the other is her walking around an abandoned building alone looking for a friend and a scooter in light of a recent life and death attack.

 

From time to time I have heard stories of people who in times of war and natural disasters refuse to evacuate the area for a whole range of reasons. For many it's because it's been their home forever and they can't bear the thought of being away torn away from the familiar especially if all their worldly goods are there.

 

 

It's a fight and flight thing too.

 

I was also thinking about many westerns I had seen in years gone by of situations where small landowners or villages get pillaged and looted regularly. Mag 7 is a good example. The villagers don't up and leave but they continue hanging around because... well... where are they going to go? So for them they have to stay and fight to reclaim their little space in this world.

 

I think something similar is going on with DB. The show even took pains to show her thought process when she thought about leaving.  She doesn't have too many options open to her. She's not educated nor does she have much money. (HM's been draining her dry as well) There's no family that she knew about at the time. Where would she go? I think her mother knew it too and hung around to watch over her. She might believe that it is easier to continue living in Ongsan and then to start all over again. Would leaving mean that the Joker would leave her alone entirely? That was a question I posed earlier in the thread.

 

At least in Ongan, she has a man who loves her who happens to be a cop. And a motley crew of neighbourhood acquaintances who when they're not giving her a hard time seems to be watching her back. It's more than what she's had for a very long time.

Of course she could have taken up JR on his offer of money etc. She did consider it seriously. But decided she didn't care for the trade-offs. She would have to be beholden to him and well, did she really want to be in that position. She did up and leave him once. I suppose going back to him would be a bridge too far even if she's at the end of her tether. It would feel like she was prostituting herself on some level.

 

On the other point... DB was silly to walk into Mega Mall on her own without any suspicion that something fishy is going on. But I don't think it was just about the scooter. She was worried about HM as well. So she... let her emotions get the better of her without thinking through the consequences. I was shaking my head the entire sequence but it is what it is.  Well, she's not exactly the sharpest tool in the tool box to begin with although her courage at least is no longer in question.

 

8 hours ago, htk9207 said:

 

It was in Moon Lovers where I first took notice of KHN. He wasn't cast as lead in dramas but  he already starred in 3 movies as lead. If I'm not mistaken, there was one with PSJ which was a surprise hit. 

I see. I don't watch K movies as a rule but I have watched bits of C'est Si Bon recently although I don't know if he could be considered the male lead there.

 

@bebebisous33 Yeah, I don't hold out much hope for Jessica and Jang Ryeol either. I guess he really just married her for her looks and she married him for his celebrity status. I feel sorry for that little baby girl. What a mess! At least JR's trying to be a good father to her. I've never seen Jessica hold her once.

 

[lu09]

@bedifferent @bebebisous33 So our shaman guy is HS dad. I'm also interested in what the victims did to get killed because it can't be just random. Whether HS dad or HS is the Joker, they are bound to serve some jail time for other crimes. The police Chief and PG coach are no longer suspects, so is GT.

 

I also have a feeling that DS did indeed destroy his reputation with what happened that day. DS and DB have too many similarities and I believe this caused him to target her in the first place other than her being a witness and a survivor to his crime.

 

@htk9207  @chickfactor   You weren't the only ones who were mad with DB going off on her own (facepalm). This better be the last time. And speaking of that scooter, who took it and is driving away with it in the preview? I thought that was part of evidence.

 

@ktcjdrama Sad but true. It does happen alot

 

@40somethingahjumma Indeed, DB really isn't the sharpest tool IMAO. I was ROFL when YS told her in the previous episode that she shouldn't bother being cold-hearted in this lifetime LOL.

 

We finally meet Yeong Shim and Boy, YS really got from her for not taking her Dog case seriously lol. What made that scene even funnier is how the police chief was running to warn YS about her ROFL. But it looks like both get in trouble in the next episode for not reporting the case. 

 

JY keeps enjoying her divorce status although her ex-husband keeps getting in trouble with the law lol. GT and his director friend operating an arcade in Ongsan. No wonder he said it's gonna cause a mess in the village Imao. Even the ahjummas' were playing lol . 

 

Looks like Jessica is not bound to change and get her act together. I thought she would change after she realized that she is an attention seeker and set priorities on what's important. But nope, girl wants to have and eat her cake at the same time. This marriage is bound to end in divorce whether she likes it or not. At least, JR is making an effort for his kids although what he told PG was a jerk move. 

 

Poor HM, when she really decided to start fresh. 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

@bedifferent @bebebisous33 @lu09

 

I have been wondering about the importance of the "bad luck" narrative in the serial killings and as one of the major themes of this story for a while now. After revisiting the first episode which I largely forgot, I think it's definitely the case that there is some kind of superstitious fanaticism going on. There are many beliefs at play here. Some superstitions are reasonably harmless and some are potentially dangerous if taken to a certain kind of conclusion. I wasn't sure at first so I didn't go into it in any great detail but yes... the photos have confirmed one thing at least: Why HS' father would have motive to strike. That was always the sticky part for me.

 

I said this a while back that it's interesting to me how people in the town and others like JR see DB as "pathetic", "unlucky" etc. They see her as the source of her own problems -- sins of her previous life coming to haunt her, or the target of heavenly wrath. Ms Kwak sees her as an omen of "bad luck" that she wants her son to stay away from which is why she objects vocally. She struggles in the first episode with her crime-fighting son who can't help but catch bad guys even before he became a cop.  He's violently good at it. In the end she resigns herself to the reality that he cannot be anything else. YS is born to be a cop.

 

For Yong-shik it's love at first sight with DB. He knows right away that they are meant to be. In contrast to everyone else, he sees himself as someone sent to DB's side to protect her and to mitigate the so-called "bad luck". He is her guardian angel or lucky talisman or something along those lines. His job is to watch over her and shower her with the love she has never experienced. From his perspective she is a work-in-progress to be built up and cherished. For him who loves her, she can go from being "unlucky" to "lucky" with the right amount of nurturing. Using the show's organic metaphor... she can blossom like a flower and thrive.

 

So we have a clash of worldviews. Some people are marked as "unlucky" and should accept their lot in life. These people don't deserve anything good because one doesn't/can't go against fate or karma. Anyone trying to improve their position by exercising personal choice or freedom upsets the status quo which is punishable apparently by death according to a particular school of thought. Apparently if you've been marked as being 'unlucky" you don't deserve to be happy. It is a fatalistic, deterministic view of life.

 

That would explain the timing of this new set of attacks. For me at least. It does seem to tie in with the return of YS and his courtship of her as well as the unexpected entry of KJR into all their lives.

 

The big irony as you've noted is that Ms Kwak might be the person who got this particular ball rolling. This shaman is still seething with resentment at her attack on his authenticity and he's still playing out a really long temper tantrum.

 

 

 

[lu09]

@40somethingahjumma Great observation. Things make sense if we go with your explanation. Ever since YS showed up in Ongsan again, DB started to change and stand up to people which she never did before. And that's something DS did when her husband died and HS dad called her unlucky. I have a feeling that in his delusional mind, he wants to kill DB in place of DS. Remember before the fire happened in the supermarket, DB was in the bus on her own and we saw the words that were written on DS flyer on the chair. That's a huge clue on the Joker's real target. If this is true, then he is one sick man. 

 

Why do I have a feeling that the victims were all regulars in DS restaurant? I'm getting ahead of myself lol.

[bedifferent]

Sorry everyone, can you tell who this person is?

 

Hyang Mi delivered to an abandoned fishing house on the dock.  A man sits across watching her, I can't tell who he is.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

What @lollyminx raised earlier is true.  DB didn't look like she recognized the person when she saw the culprit's face in the elevator.  I don't think it was HS.  If HS' dad is indeed the regular at her house, DB should have recognize him too.

[lollyminx]

34 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

Sorry everyone, can you tell who this person is?

The one in the first photo below? Isn't it Hong Ja-yeong? I assumed that's her so I was wondering what went down between her and Hyang-mi that night. I know it's not bad, she didn't kill her. I just hope they had a good conversation and Ja-yeong forgave Hyang-mi. Wait... or were you talking about another person in a different photo?

 

35 minutes ago, bedifferent said:

What @lollyminx raised earlier is true.  DB didn't look like she recognized the person when she saw the culprit's face in the elevator.

Yes, and also Yong-sik and the other police officers will continue their investigation next episode so that means they still don't know who the Joker is. Either the Joker is someone we've never seen, or others are right that he's the shaman, or when Dong-baek said she saw the joker, she only meant the joker's appearance and not his face. With this drama, I don't know anymore. Haha there's too much to guess but we don't always get it right and it seems there are too many misleading stories there to take away our attention from the real joker 

 

[bedifferent]

@lollyminx Is it Ja-yeong? The person was sitting at dock watching Hyang Mi pulled up to deliver food. Check episode 16 Netflix at 18:00 mark, was holding Camellia's menu.

[40somethingahjumma]

Just when you think you've got it... LOL... it's okay... it's all part of the fun of being on the forum.

 

Well, it could be a relative of HS and his father hitherto unknown to us. Ms Jo mentioned the unmistakable eyes... perhaps it's a family trait. An uncle of HS or a brother.

 

But isn't it someone who has visited Camellia? Those ominous footsteps going into the bar? The muddy shoes etc. So it's definitely someone that is known to them but not remembered. Like Father Brown's Invisible Man... a person that they see everyday but they don't take notice of much.

 

It is hard to know what are the real clues and what's the red-herring.

 

Maybe the unknown man in @bedifferent's picture is Dong-baek's father. Heh! That's why Mum looked so shocked in the alley.

We might get a family reunion at the end of the drama. 

[bebebisous33]

@bedifferent @40somethingahjumma @lollyminx @lu09 I have the feeling that we are getting closer to the truth thanks to everyone's observations and analysis. Great team work!!

 

So it was Ja-Yeong who ordered the dish to that secluded area, near the lake. Remember that JY's car was really dirty the next morning. But I doubt that JY killed HM. In my opinion, HM and JY had a direct and honest conversation, since HM had decided to start a new life.

 

However, we shouldn't forget that HM was also followed by the gangster as well. So far, we don't know where he disappeared. Yet, he wanted to get revenge.

 

Nevertheless, I have come to the following theory:

Like I had already mentioned before, this all started with DS's action against the shaman. Let just say that the shaman is HS's uncle and not HS's father. Since there is a wheelchair in the bedroom of HS's father, I doubt that he can walk so easily like the killer. On the other hand, I am now inclined to think that HS is not the culprit (he didn't kill DB's mother despite her accusation).

Because of DS's action, the shaman, HS's uncle, lost his credibility and from that moment, his family was turned upside down. 

1. His brother, HS's father, as the owner of that pesticide company, went bankrupt, when the pesticide got forbidden due to the dangerous side effects. That's why there are so many bottles of that pesticide in his room. Furthermore, during the Middle Age in Europe, black cats were perceived as bad omen this would explain that in the deranged mind of this man, he considers cats as bad omen and kills them. Since he comes from a shaman family, this would explain why he perceives single women and cats as witches and bad omen
2. His own "wife" left him... And it was DB's mother. I am inclined to think that she wasn't even married because she married the "wealthy" man later. But there is no guarantee. Anyway, her husband started abusing her as he resented such women (maybe DS is herself an orphan) for losing his reputation. Just before giving birth, DB's mother decided to abandon him and ran away. After leaving him, she met DS who comforted her which would explain why the Joker set the fire like that. Maybe he was not just targeting DB but also YS. 
3. Maybe DB's mother disliked HS's gaze because he reminded her the gaze of her "former" husband. She might not know that HS and her ex were related. I have also the impression that the shaman might have been someone who doesn't belong to Ongsan but is attached to the town due to his brother. 
4. By the way, I believe that DB's mother must have been an orphan as well hence she had no one to turn to, when she got abused by her husband and ran away. I doubt that she got divorced since she asked DB to hide her mother's name and her name. She didn't want her husband to find her whereabouts and her daughter's whereabouts. But just like DB's mother, the shaman married a second time or married for real and had a son. In other words, HS's cousin could be the culprit who resents people who are considered as bad luck and bad omen: single mothers, widows, orphans aso... there was a young boy among the victims... in other words, he could have been an orphan. 
5. Imagined... the boy could have been brainwashed by his father. The latter might have recognized DB as his daughter and told his son who DB was. Because of her (an orphan and a single mother), the son thought that his father's life had turned into a misery.   

 

 

[grapefruit7]

18 hours ago, bedifferent said:

 

Great job!  Now let us all figure out why the victims and the motives for father/son.  I like how the writer continue with the theme of family in our mystery.

 

we were shown cases of single parenting mother-daughter/son relationship

DB+PG

DB+Mom

YS+Mom

HM+Mom

and past episodes shows us the outcome of these people as:

 

an individual person

as a family

as a parent

as a child

 

how about father-daughter/son? There is a chance that HS+father will show as the darker outcome for people who experience judgement, hatred & being an outcast. They may not overcome all the humiliation & hatred thus resulted to vengeance & killings.

 

Well the exact reasons behind joker’s relationship or encounter with the victims were still unclear at this moment so its really hard to justify.

 

[lollyminx]

3 hours ago, bedifferent said:

Is it Ja-yeong? The person was sitting at dock watching Hyang Mi pulled up to deliver food. Check episode 16 Netflix at 18:00 mark, was holding Camellia's menu.

Ooooh I didn't catch that scene in the episode, but it's probably a different person. I feel like on her way to deliver the food, Hyang-mi encountered different people. First Gyu-tae then Jessica then Ja-yeong and then finally the joker. 

 

59 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

However, we shouldn't forget that HM was also followed by the gangster as well. So far, we don't know where he disappeared. Yet, he wanted to get revenge.

Oh right, there's that guy too! 

 

It couldn't be Ja-yeong who ordered the food because she wouldn't be sure Hyang-mi would deliver it.

 

Also, since the pimp/loanshark was mentioned, it could also be him who killed Hyang-mi because the timing of her death doesn't match the joker's pattern. Four arson cases then a murder. The pattern matched the market scene where Dong-baek was supposed to die. But then of course, maybe there's no pattern just coincidences. Hahahaha man, this is why I don't like thinking about who the joker is. It makes you think and think. 

[lu09]

@bebebisous33  @lollyminx @40somethingahjumma @bedifferent @grapefruit7 We are almost there lol. Even after 16 episodes, we still don't know who did what IMAO. 

 

Wait what? That's JY???? I thought that was HS dad when I was watching it lol. But it's true that JY did indeed meet up with HM that night somewhere on her way to that delivery. I'm having second thoughts on the Joker being HM killer now. I completely forgot about the loan shark guy. Do you guys think that he is actually the one who made the phone call that night for the delivery?? HM made the delivery in a house that's near the lake she was found dead. And whose house was that again?

 

Yep, from the looks of the preview, DB doesn't recognize the face she saw otherwise he would be in police custody right away. If the joker is neither HS or his dad, then it's probably a relative as you guys mentioned. But I hope the killer is not DB dad because that's just a mess. 

[bebebisous33]

13 minutes ago, lu09 said:

@bebebisous33  @lollyminx @40somethingahjumma @bedifferent @grapefruit7 We are almost there lol. Even after 16 episodes, we still don't know who did what IMAO. 

 

Wait what? That's JY???? I thought that was HS dad when I was watching it lol. But it's true that JY did indeed meet up with HM that night somewhere on her way to that delivery. I'm having second thoughts on the Joker being HM killer now. I completely forgot about the loan shark guy. Do you guys think that he is actually the one who made the phone call that night for the delivery?? HM made the delivery in a house that's near the lake she was found dead. And whose house was that again?

 

Yep, from the looks of the preview, DB doesn't recognize the face she saw otherwise he would be in police custody right away. If the joker is neither HS or his dad, then it's probably a relative as you guys mentioned. But I hope the killer is not DB dad because that's just a mess. 

 

13 minutes ago, lu09 said:

@bebebisous33  @lollyminx @40somethingahjumma @bedifferent @grapefruit7 We are almost there lol. Even after 16 episodes, we still don't know who did what IMAO. 

 

Wait what? That's JY???? I thought that was HS dad when I was watching it lol. But it's true that JY did indeed meet up with HM that night somewhere on her way to that delivery. I'm having second thoughts on the Joker being HM killer now. I completely forgot about the loan shark guy. Do you guys think that he is actually the one who made the phone call that night for the delivery?? HM made the delivery in a house that's near the lake she was found dead. And whose house was that again?

 

Yep, from the looks of the preview, DB doesn't recognize the face she saw otherwise he would be in police custody right away. If the joker is neither HS or his dad, then it's probably a relative as you guys mentioned. But I hope the killer is not DB dad because that's just a mess. 

The Joker looks young (see the scene where DB's friend was killed) that's why he can not be DB's father.

 

I had this idea that DB's mother might have known a relative of HS because of his gaze. She described his gaze as brutish, although no one around was able to see through the deception. In my opinion, she must have known someone with a similar gaze, her ex-husband/boyfriend (DB's father) who had that brutish gaze as well. This explains why she could sense that HS is not what he seems to be. On the surface, someone gentle and nice ... behind his disguise there is hatred and resent. She must have met such a similar person in the past.

[1ouise]

Yay!  I'm glad others are maybe starting to see things the same way I do.  Kang Ha-neul described Camellia as "heart-warming."  It doesn't seem heart-warming to me if his friend Heung-sik is trying to kill his girlfriend.  I think there is someone else, and I think it is HS's uncle--the shaman.  The writing is crazy good, so we still have to wait and see. 

 

 

This scene has me curious.  DB asks about "oppa."  Who is he??

Episode 14 at 10:30 @bebebisous33 @lu09

 

 

 

[lu09]

@bebebisous33 True. I believe DB dad had the same brutish gaze considering the fact that he was abusive to his own wife and daughter. That's why DB mom knew what kind of person HS was. But DB mom probably mixed up both father and son; hence why she looked surprised in the Alley. 

 

I thought the Joker was PG coach because he fit the criteria as well. But he is out of the question since he took the baseball team to China though I have a feeling he knows who the lighter belongs to. The ahjummas' husbands are out of the list as well because that night, they were playing at the arcade. The police Chief as well though he has no alibi. Which leaves only this father and son duo to be the killer unless they have a relative hiding in their house.

[bebebisous33]

A crazy idea... we know that KJR used to live in Ongsan and we heard that his mother looked down on DB: she saw her as an insect, a parasite that should be removed. So what if the killer is somehow related to KJR's mother? So far, we only met her and KJR mentioned his dad once but not in a good way. 

 

@1ouise Wasn't she mentioning her father ("appa") in this scene? where is this scene?

[lu09]

@1ouise I forgot about that scene. DB did say " what about Oppa?" But the English translation referred as "Him". I thought it was weird of her to say that. That's why I thought the man they met in the hospital was the Oppa but he turned out to be DB mom's doctor.

 

@bebebisous33 I believe it was 2-4 episodes back. It was before or after the fire accident.

[bebebisous33]

@1ouise Thanks for the answer.  You're right.  She did say "oppa". So does this mean that DB had an older brother? Then this  would signify that the mother chose to run away with DB and leave the older brother behind because she couldn't save both children. 

But DB was a baby, when her mother ran away so she couldn't have remembered the existence of "oppa". On the other hand, she was old enough in that scene to be able to read. Maybe she discovered a photo where it was written "oppa".

then we shouldn't forget that "oppa" could be referring to "boyfriend" as well. She saw a picture of her biological father ("oppa") and asked her mother. The latter could only become fierce in order to stop DB from getting curious about her father. Furthermore, the mother was deeply hurt by her abusive boyfriend. Then with this detail, @1ouise, we can now assume that she never got married to him. She was in a similar situation like her own daughter: being a girlfriend who was ignored by his family. 

 

To sum up, "oppa" is her biological father. By the way, a detail caught my attention: DS criticized the shaman for misrepresenting her husband. She said, he couldn't be her husband because the shaman was speaking in a Jeollaba Province dialect. This outlines that the shaman came from a different province and not from Ongsan. Yet, in order to get such an offer in Ongsan, the shaman must have had connections in Ongsan too. DS's husband was not a famous politician. To conclude, the shaman must have had relatives in this city.   

[milkypeony]

5 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

• His brother, HS's father, as the owner of that pesticide company, went bankrupt, when the pesticide got forbidden due to the dangerous side effects. That's why there are so many bottles of that pesticide in his room. Furthermore, during the Middle Age in Europe, black cats were perceived as bad omen this would explain that in the deranged mind of this man, he considers cats as bad omen and kills them. Since he comes from a shaman family, this would explain why he perceives single women and cats as witches and bad omen
• His own "wife" left him... And it was DB's mother. I am inclined to think that she wasn't even married because she married the "wealthy" man later. But there is no guarantee. Anyway, her husband started abusing her as he resented such women (maybe DS is herself an orphan) for losing his reputation. Just before giving birth, DB's mother decided to abandon him and ran away. After leaving him, she met DS who comforted her which would explain why the Joker set the fire like that. Maybe he was not just targeting DB but also YS. 
• Maybe DB's mother disliked HS's gaze because he reminded her the gaze of her "former" husband. She might not know that HS and her ex were related. I have also the impression that the shaman might have been someone who doesn't belong to Ongsan but is attached to the town due to his brother. 
• By the way, I believe that DB's mother must have been an orphan as well hence she had no one to turn to, when she got abused by her husband and ran away. I doubt that she got divorced since she asked DB to hide her mother's name and her name. She didn't want her husband to find her whereabouts and her daughter's whereabouts. But just like DB's mother, the shaman married a second time or married for real and had a son. In other words, HS's cousin could be the culprit who resents people who are considered as bad luck and bad omen: single mothers, widows, orphans aso... there was a young boy among the victims... in other words, he could have been an orphan. 
• Imagined... the boy could have been brainwashed by his father. The latter might have recognized DB as his daughter and told his son who DB was. Because of her (an orphan and a single mother), the son thought that his father's life had turned into a misery.   

 oh my word this theory is amazing. YOUR MIND.  in general i'm starting to feel pretty bad for heung sik. maybe it's the fact that he'd been rescuing stray cats HAHA and also people keep on thinking he's evil   plus it must be a real drag having to care for a deranged(?) parent :-(

 

the whole of episode 16 i was really annoyed with DB too. entering an abandoned building is one thing (and yall already said everything i feel about it hahaha) but something that bugs me to no end is how DB relates to YS? i feel like the whole time they're together she's always talking about her problems and DB doesnt really do a lot for YS? maybe the writers found it superfluous to include into the story but i really wish we could see DB reciprocating the level of care and love YS shows to her, besides just saying "i like you" and "i love you". like omg when YS slept over and dude didn't even get a proper pillow and blanket to sleep with????? i know she's sick but couldnt she tell him where to get a pillow........... hahahahaha do any of you have any bits i missed out where DB shows affection to YS?

 

im also curious what you all think about the way parents' love is portrayed in this drama? i often feel that most of the mothers don't allow their children to learn how to take care of themselves. they don't really have boundaries, like NGT's mother (ABSOLUTELY NONE) and YS's mother (she's always infantilising YS, stuffing his fridge with juice and solving his problems (like with yeong sim) and what, deboning duck for him? w h y. he's a grown@$$ man). even DB always gives in to PG's demands and never checks him when he gives attitude, which is not exactly A+ parenting. but instead of these actions being called out as detrimental, they're usually passed off as 'a mother's love'. ummmmmmm. am i missing something here? is this korean culture? or are the writers trying to say that despite being flawed in their logic, these women all have good intentions, just like DB's mother, who is the epitome of misguided decisions steeped in love 

[bebebisous33]

@milkypeony When the episode showed different kind of mothers,  where it was said that all mothers would put their children first, I was annoyed. To me, they are idealizing motherhood.

 

First of all, we have an example of a mother who feels no attachment to her child: Jessica. The latter is so self-absorbed that she never thinks about her daughter. She doesn't even take care of her. This type is no fiction at all. Acting as a good mother is not an inborn skill.

 

Secondly, because of my own experiences, I can say that mothers are no selfless creatures per se. In my own family, I have witnessed how my young relatives are or were treated by their mothers. It is and was disgusting... I don't want to be precise. Let me tell you that my young relatives were left alone for hours... or they didn't have any food to eat. On the other hand, the mothers spent money for their hairdresser or their new jacket (yes, it reminds you of Jessica). As a relative, you can not even intervene and this makes you feel helpless. I won't talk about social services and justice because even the judge decided to place the kids with their mothers (despite the report from the social services and the request of the children!!) As you can see, this is a very sensitive topic to me.

 

As a teacher, I can only agree with you that nowadays in Europe, there is less and less parenting. I have the impression that parents believe, a father or mother just needs to make their child's life as easy as possible (every hurdle will be removed by the parents) and they just need to ensure that their needs are covered (new clothes, new cellphone, food aso). Parents even prefer delegating their task (education) to the teachers, like f. ex. (based on a real experience):

- "My daughter used her cellphone during classes (she texted 1000* in a month) but as a father, I don't want to play the bad guy. Could you  please take away her cellphone, when she gets caught?"

- "My son hurt the other schoolmate by playing. It was not intentional that his ear drum was damaged. Besides, he just copied what his friends did to him. Why was the police involved?"