[Drama 2019] When the Camellia Blooms, 동백꽃 필무렵

[chibiusa]

Yong Shik: I want to live a comfortable life now. Lets just end this.

Dong Baek: 

 

[bedifferent]

On 10/23/2019 at 7:49 PM, 40somethingahjumma said:

It was good to get Hyang Mi's story, sordid though it was. If the show's going to make her the Joker's latest victim, I'd really like to know why. Not surprisingly she's gotten into bed with some really dodgy company. She's on the run as surmised. But she was always light-fingered. A pitiful character and I really don't understand the prejudice against orphans as if it were their fault. There was no one to steer her on the straight and narrow but then it probably became easier to just default to whatever came naturally. What especially impressed me about the telling of HM's backstory is we get to see how much DB has grown. Knowing what she was like before YS's entry into her world, it's even more impressive that she stood up to the menacing thug in the verbal exchange and then proceeded to cudgel him over the head with what was available.  

 

 

This drama is about family,  while dysfunctional at times,  is a refuge and savior for many.  Both HM and DB longed to belong to a family.  It's more than a sense of belonging, I think they want to feel that they matter to someone.  I feel very bad for HM esp when she keeps looking at DB, trying to unlock her secrets for being optimistic and lovable to others.  HM puts her family top priority just like DB, but it turned out, it's not blood that dictates who your family is, it's about unconditional love and acceptance.  Pil-Gu is really the portable charger of the family.  His needs drive DB's decisions. HM was not as lucky.  DB was right all along.  

 

On 10/23/2019 at 11:57 PM, Isache said:

My guess is this elderly guy named "Han Tae Hee". 

 

I'm trying to understand why and how Han Tae Hee would be at the cafe watching Yong Sik paint over his msg on Camellia's wall?  Did Yong Shik paint after hour?

 

Still, who burned down the school (perhaps using HM's stash of lighters)?  Are we looking at multiple events and people cross intersect?

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

On 10/24/2019 at 5:47 AM, Latte_Anyday said:

Lawyer Hong married Mr. Noh solely for the fact he was naive & she liked how he was an open book, someone with no pretenses etc. Which I presume she's quite tired of, she has enough of it in her line of work LoL. 

 

I truly wished there're more moms like Dong Baek. That scene where she embraced Hyang Mi with open arms was so moving to me. And on top of that, lil Pil Goo was willing to share his portion of a meal with a woman he just met. That alone is testament enough to the sort of person Dong Baek is. And despite she gets slandered she chooses to raise her son with good values.

 

I think Lawyer Hong likes that Mr Noh is a simple man who is attracted to material things.  She can provide him what he needs, thus she thinks it will give her control in the marriage.  If she controls what he loves, in her mind, Mr Noh will always be loyal to her.

 

I love that scene.  Really.  Contrast it to the scene when Dong Baek came to town with villagers gawking.

 

On 10/24/2019 at 6:09 AM, Whisper2 said:

I have some questions though:

- why does HyangMi address DongBaek as "unnie" when both of them are born in 1986? Is there a need to fake the age even if she wants to fake her identity?

- why does the cat food cause allergic reaction to YongSik similar to pesticides found in YeongSim's farm? I felt like the deliberately makes YongSik overlook an important clue (by not visiting YeongSim), only to reveal it as an important key to the mystery later

 

- I believe Dong Baek's on-record DOB is in August, which makes her older than HM's December.

- cough + lighter = smoker but we have been sidetracked by the cat food.  Red herring perhaps?   Don't forget the one academy that never has visitors, has cat food in front of it with the last victim, esthetician, right across.   

- I don't know if the cats cause allergy to the Joker since he still has the cough when there is no cat in town.

 

 

On 10/24/2019 at 8:53 AM, 1ouise said:

 

From what she said at the end, I think Dong-baek left the money there on purpose, knowing that Hyang-mi needed it and actually hoping she would take it.  I think her lamenting about the loss was for show.

 

 

DB tends to give people the benefit of doubt esp she is often the victim of undue prejudice.  When they were young, HM defended her so in DB's mind, HM would never hurt her intentionally without good reasons. I actually think DB was relieved deep inside that she was able to help HM with the money.  Tho I think she thought it would go to pay back the loan shark. Yes, she was a bad actress in front of the men that night. lol  What I thought was quite touching is that she gave HM a home when she needed it and kept its doors opened for her to return.  Like what family do for each other.

 

On 10/24/2019 at 11:27 AM, chickfactor said:

 

At the end of the day, it's not clear that she was killed. She may have just committed suicide.

 

After all, the Joker called Camellia after Hyang-Mi had already left.

 

I don't think the Joker killed HM.  He called right at the moment when she died.  Too much of a coincidence. Why call for DB if you haven't cleaned up the murder scene?  Also, why did the body get disposed near the river, not in town, where she supposed to make delivery? Joker doesn't move his victims previously.  More suspicious of the pimp like @cosmogirl77

 

Maybe what happened is that Joker was waiting for the delivery but HM never made it so he called to ask "Are you coming?"  BTW, was one of the previous victims a delivery guy?

 

Can you possibly tell what DB wrote on the post-it note? Address? It's single serving delivery.

 

Spoiler

 

 

@grapefruit7 I tried to look at the people behind this group of men as well as the young man that passed.  Couldn't see anything yet.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Is this a phone? Who is it belong to?

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[WANGYEO]

what a jerk brother Hyangmi got.... She paid for his wife's hospital bill (?) and his life expenses and that's what he said to her. 

She was finally realizing the amazing an loving family she was surrounding with. 

 

So the joker didn't kill Hyangmi? He want to kill Dongbaek. 

[nubianlegalmind]

On 9/29/2019 at 9:49 AM, bebebisous33 said:

The ahjummas will change their behavior, once they see that Dongbaek is in a relationship with YS. So far, they resented her because they saw her as a thread, she would seduce their husbands. From the moment she is with YS, they have no reason to perceive DB as a femme fatale. YS will make them realize that the reason for their husbands to visit the bar is a different one. They want to escape their control, this is a room where they can breathe and feel free.

This is such an interesting take. This also made me think about how progressive, yet how in the dark ages the women in the town are. On one hand, it is admirable that they are all business women, with their husbands pretty much working for them. Although, I thought it was suspect that they ALL had to have a marinated crab business. There are so many dishes you can create with crab, why just marinated? However, on the other hand, they all behave like old-fashioned women. NONE OF THESE WOMEN HAVE TRIED TO GO TO CAMELLIA'S? None. This idea that going to a bar is something that women can't do is such a patriarchal idea. Another thing that stood out was how as soon as DB came to town, everyone was trying to talk to, deal with, find out about a husband. Once they saw she was not connected to a man, she suddenly became a Jezebel and an easy target. I need the ahjumma's to pick a side. Either you are going to women who run your own business and don't lead traditional homes lives or you're going to be Stepford wives but you can't do both a the same time. Talk about an oxymoron.  As far as the men going to the bar because it has become an oasis for them, what about the women? There in lies the problem. These women do not have lives outside of their day-to-day business. They don't have a place to unwind, that is why they so easily get caught up in being petty and catty with one another. 

[Latte_Anyday]

@stroppyse

It's sad & unfortunate that orphans have such a stigma in South Korea~

I understand that their society places a lot of emphasis on roots etc. But it's not the orphan's fault that they were abandoned. It's the adults who should be held responsible. Just a lot of issues brought up in this drama gives me a rather negative view of South Korea. And yes while they may be progressive their attitudes are not. 

 

I too would be devastated if it is indeed Hyang Mi that's the next Joker's victim.. she may have done some awful things.. still it was out of self-preservation? Plus it was the only way she knew how to survive with the harsh life  she had.

 

Pil Goo's the true hero of this drama for me as well. Great minds think alike LoL! It's like he's the ONLY "adult" in this town of Ongsan.

[bedifferent]

@stroppyse love your post!  I too feel lots of sympathy for HM.  

 

During the flashback of DB/HM's school years, we hear a voiceover (DB?) commenting on how prejudice weighs you down.  It prevents some people from doing better and caused others to become rebellious against the system/perpetrators.  DB lacks self-worth in the beginning when we first met her, thinking she is cursed with bad luck and deserved of those awful treatments because she is an orphan.  Slowly, with YS' support and love, she  gained more confidence and blossomed.  She never gave in to hatred against the people who treated her badly.  She held on to her own belief of who she is, someone who doesn't steal lunch money, whose principles will not allow her to sell her smile or give away peanuts freely.  She sells alcohol to survive but won't disrespect herself for an easy buck.  HM on the other hand, lost hope in the system and resigned to working it for her survival and someone she loves. Nothing is beneath her.  No work is seemed out of line for someone who has already been casted as an outsider.  HM justified for the lies and blackmailing as acceptable as it is against people with bad vices.  It's quite sad that it took someone like GT to remind HM to have some self respect and try to live a dignified life.She is often curious on how DB would just absorbs all the unfair stuffs thrown at her without much complaint.  The world was not nice many times to DB but instead of lashing out on it, DB refused to reciprocate the hatred.  That's her secret I guess.  She relies on tolerance and compassion in her relationships with others.

 

Same cat food that HS used as in what was in the room HM stayed

 

Spoiler

 

 

HM thinks this is the back door to the house.  Could it be because the front door is locked (by HS).  The alley is similar.

 

Spoiler

 

There are the gas tanks... we see dials

 

 

 

[htk9207]

It makes me think the killer is HS dad because why does HS has to lock the door from the outside? To prevent him from going out thru the front door. But it is weird since apparently there is a back door. Unless it's not the same house. But seeing the bag of cat food is downright confusing since we've only seen HS with it. Even weirder is not a single cat in sight.

 

About Hyang Mi, her moment with DB did make me cry knowing it would be her last moment alive. But despite everything that happened to HM to make her become the way she is, I don't understand why she had to take DB's money. She took NGT's money and she could try to blackmail Jessica and JR since they aren't her friends and they certainly have loads of cash to burn. But DB who had been nothing but kind to her, had been struggling financially while raising a kid all by herself, and being put down by the neighborhood ahjummas for years. HM knows DB had gone through a LOT, she had been a friend to her. It just isn't justified that because she is in dire need meant she could take DB's money. I still can't get over that. 

[ktcjdrama]

5 hours ago, stroppyse said:

 

Anyway, if HM is the one who has died, killed by the Joker, it's going to be very, very sad. Now that I have HM's back story, she's become a sympathetic character to me that I'm hoping that she's not the one who has died. From the preview, it doesn't seem as if it's DB, so hope it's not HM either

I think in the latest episode, YS stated that the body is HM...? But it isn’t clear whether or not she is killed by Joker. 

[40somethingahjumma]

@bedifferent

Although I think Dong-baek is a K drama stereotype after a fashion, one of the reasons why I respect her and why I suspect people in the neighbourhood grudgingly respect her is because she does everything the hard way and somehow manages to keep her dignity intact. She doesn't naturally have the smarts... that's well-established but she works hard to be her own person to survive. Yes, she is pitiful... struggling with a whole host of issues related to being "the outsider" (jealousy, prejudice etc) but she seldom plays the victim/blame game. Life is unfair but she somehow manages to see the silver lining in the cloud and keeps plodding away to play the hand that she's been dealt. A poor uneducated single mother with no connections starts her own business... the more I think about it, the more amazing that sounds. Nothing has ever come easy for DB. 

 

HM too is pitiful. She was carrying a lot on her shoulders although I don't know why she should have. On some level it makes little sense why she was supporting her brother who was now an adult with his own family and why she had jettisoned all self-respect to use underhanded methods to do it. It's not the lack of gratitude on his part that bothers me as much as this feeling of entitlement on his part. He seemed to expect it despite living thousands of miles away supposedly a man of independent means living in foreign country with a high cost of living. It does seem to be an issue with the siblings living beyond their means. She cared for him to the point where she was doing illegal things like blackmailing, stealing etc. I imagine that she hoped for some affection in return for all her efforts. The language she used was interesting too... blaming DB for being silly enough to leave money lying around and for causing her to feel embarrassed are two examples of what I remember.

As long as she conveniently paints other people as the problem... she can avoid taking responsibility for the consequences of her actions and that she can continue rationalizing her light-fingered tendencies because she is a needy victim. I certainly wish there had been someone to come along at the right time to steer her in the right direction. However, despite that I'd still that she (and most of us actually) tend to default to what comes easily. In her case, when money is tight, she takes to stealing or blackmailing because it's quick and easy. To help her brother out of his jam, she stole from others instead of saying no to him. Because he is "family"... as if it that alone justifies all. As someone else has rightly pointed out families can make or break a person but I would also add that family can also be unmade and remade. 

 

The difference comes from the fact that the two women have different innate qualities and clearly intelligence is not everything. In fact intelligence could be a problem because it might cause someone to take shortcuts using one's cunning rather than taking the difficult route of slogging it out honestly. 

 

In a real enough way being orphans was never the issue. It feels like it is and should be. Of course being orphans put the women in a poor position at the starting line but I don't think the starting position is the thing under discussion here. It's what participants do during the course of the race that matters. At least that's what the writing seems to suggest. The tortoise and the hare immediately springs to mind. Do you cheat because you are handicapped to get ahead? You lose no matter the result because you get disqualified in some way. The reaping and sowing principle applies. However, in truth, speed isn't the only variable in all of this. People... even if grudgingly... still respect the art of sportsmanship whatever the placement or outcome. You might not win the trophy but you can still win the hearts of your audience.

 

The genius of the script of course is that the consequences of people's actions are played out to their logical conclusion. With such a diverse range of attitudes and backgrounds, clashes are bound to occur. People are bound to get hurt. It is a good storyteller than can weave it together in a way that resonates with the audience.

 

 

[larus]

This week episodes were sad. The counting down of the last day of Hyang Mi, while we found out more about her background made it sadder.

 

It made me cry when Hyang Mi returned to Dong Baek because there was her home after all, when Dong Baek did not scold her but asking why she was crying, when Hyang Mi went to do the food delivery knowing that she won`t come back.

 

Yong Sik will catch the killer. Hyang Mi gave him a clue that she saw the burning sign in another place.

I am glad Ja-Young left Kyu-Tae.

 

I want to comment a little about the orphan stigma in South Korea. How sad to see two young girls being outcasted at school just because they did not have solid family background. When that woman explained why they better let the girls eat alone and not invite them to join the group, I wanted to step in the scene and change all that. What`s wrong for someone to be kind to a child, to let them eat with the group? How damage could bring this to their own child? 

 

And how Yong sik`s mother thinks that his adult son can not decide himself what is best for him? I hope Dong Baek is not listen to her.

In the preview, I saw Yong Sik saying that he wants to break up with Dong Baek because he wants to live a comfortable live. Yeah right. He could not look Dong Baek in his eyes when he is telling her that. It is obvious that he is the noble idiot here, or simple the idiot, thinking that he is doing Dong Baek a favor.

 

 

 

[milkypeony]

18 hours ago, bedifferent said:

Can you possibly tell what DB wrote on the post-it note? Address? It's single serving delivery.

 

interestingly, i can make out the word "낚시" in the address(?) which means fishing. that means the joker would live near the lake? or wanted to lure DB to the lake maybe? haha 

3 hours ago, larus said:

preview, I saw Yong Sik saying that he wants to break up with Dong Baek

 

oh oh actually yong sik says "그만하자" which is literally translated to "let's stop". while this phrase is often used in breakups, ive seen instances in which people use this line to say, "lets stop fighting", or "lets stop misunderstanding each other". maybe im just being overly optimistic hahahaha but i think theres a big possibility the show is just trying to bait viewers to worry them?? and YS isnt necessarily breaking up with DB!! (which i really really hope he's not doing because it doesnt seem like something he'd do and also I CANT HAVE THEM BREAK UP )

 

ahhhh im so anxious for next week!!!!!

[bedifferent]

5 hours ago, htk9207 said:

It makes me think the killer is HS dad because why does HS has to lock the door from the outside? To prevent him from going out thru the front door. But it is weird since apparently there is a back door. Unless it's not the same house. But seeing the bag of cat food is downright confusing since we've only seen HS with it. Even weirder is not a single cat in sight.

 

@htk9207 sorry, HM actually said "is this the back GATE?"  Possibility is HS is the one responsible for the scratched and burned marks under the table at Camellia and in his own kitchen.  It's where he sits across from the Joker and was there the night YS painted the wall.  He may just clean up after/for the Joker.  BTW, the academy is all boarded up too.

 

 

@40somethingahjumma  @larus I agree with you.  Taking responsibility for your actions is the key.  Work with your deficits, you weakness, keep that positive spirit.  The people I admire are ones with the good attitude, not the perfect life.  Persevere and work hard, live with dignity.  Do things with grace.  When is given a choice between right and wrong, always do the right thing. Sounds easy but very hard.  DB is truly lucky, she has Pil-Gu to guide her actions.  Others may consider at her life as a single mother negatively, for her it's the one thing that kept her going.  She has to live her life in a way as not to compromise his life.  

 

Among the stuffs that this drama tackled is that it advocates for intervention.  It advocates for empathy, sympathy, tolerance among us for others who are different and less fortunate.  We see YS stepping into DB life with his optimism and brought her the respect she rarely received before.  It also resonates in DB's good character that she welcomes HM into her life based on the mere fact that she needs a job and is a competent helper.   Deok Soon reaching out to befriend Pil-Gu and his mom when others shunted the outsiders.  They do it because they realize the need to intervene.  Coming back to the young DB/HM, what if the teachers and fellow students' moms intervened in a positive way.  Did they know back then they had a chance to possibly save HM's life?  Obviously not, but that is the point right?  We don't know if we will make a difference in someone's life but we should try to act. Who knows because we are able to help someone at the lowest point, we could have prevented the mass school shooting which occurred years later.

 

@milkypeony thanks for the translation and confusing me even further. 

[larus]

When the Camellia Blooms: Episodes 19-20

by fencejumper

Our heroine draws on her inner strength to pursue a more fulfilling life, one that leaves space to date as well as care for her family. Meanwhile, her cop paramour races against time to track down a dangerous villain. Can he succeed before tragedy strikes again?

 

 
EPISODE 19: “Nice People Can’t Get Lucky”

 

http://www.dramabeans.com/2019/10/when-the-camellia-blooms-episodes-19-20/

 

[chibiusa]

 

 

[lollyminx]

On 10/26/2019 at 6:24 PM, htk9207 said:

It just isn't justified that because she is in dire need meant she could take DB's money. I still can't get over that.

Same. Hyang-mi exists in two different corners of my mind. There's the sympathetic Hyang-mi who had to work to support her family only later on to be ditched by her brother when she needed the support most. But there's also the unlikable Hyang-mi who did horrible things to people who don't deserve it. In my opinion, she could have borrowed the money from Dong-baek but she just had to do the hurtful thing of stealing it or blackmailing other people without thinking about how it would ruin them like for instance, how revealing Jung-ryeol's secret would hurt Pil-gu if the media hounds him and Dong-baek. 

 

It's just... I don't know, there are people who are stuck in a hole and need help, but they don't need to keep digging themselves deeper. 

[40somethingahjumma]

Hwang Yong-shik: The Man with the Drone 

 

 

I don't know how many times I've watched this clip over the weekend and it still cracks me up every single time. KHN is downright hilarious and I adore the way he puffs up his chest after being identified as the best cop in Ongsan. LOL. And don't you love the music that they play every time he does his heroic shtick. It's the cherry on top. What was also terrific was Pil-gu chiming in at the right time... it was a wonderful double act. I doubt that it could have been choreographed any better. 

 

The next scene exemplifies so well why this show is something special. There's more of that "show rather than tell" that this drama excels in. 

 

 

Even the generally heroic YS suffers pangs of insecurity... he's a man after all... but his honesty is unerringly endearing. 

The stuttering bluster that accompanies his frustration with KJR's continued presence in their lives is always a delight. 

What of course is great about this scene is how these two ordinary people communicate in their courtship. They are completely in sympathy with one another. Observe how she holds his hand to allay his fears. Then she kisses it to reassure him that money is not even a consideration for her. Then she reminds him of the way they express their relationship in their own unique way... flowers and mandu... the feelings are mutual and reciprocated. To his credit... he gets it... hence the peck on the lips.

 

7 hours ago, stroppyse said:

 

It's not the orphans' fault, as you've said. And, weirdly enough, it's not the orphans themselves that Koreans object to as people. Rather, it's their circumstances. I know it feels like splitting hairs, but that is the difference that YS' mother feels. She likes DB a lot and rather admires her in many ways, but still doesn't want DB as a partner for her son.  Still, orphans were considered pitiable but walking talismans of misfortune.

 

 

 

 

It was clear to me right from the start that it was about Pil-gu more than anything else. I had guessed as much. Ms Kwak didn't want YS to raise another man's son and she as much said so on a couple of occasions. Even though she pities mother and son, she's still a woman of tradition.

I didn't think it is a peculiarly Korean attitude... It seems to be more broadly eastern perhaps or in contexts where passing down the family name or bloodline is still of importance. I can't exactly blame her on some level... particularly with the way KJR has been carrying on but I hope she allows YS to make up his own mind.

 

My fervent hope is that YS will continue to fight on... parental objections aside... and not play the Noble Idiot.

[tiMadam]

What did HM see when she got on the bus going back from to ongsan?

I noticed there is no longer a gathering at the bar since mr noh incident.

Also we see more of the women characters and not so much husbands.

[chibiusa]

 

Spoiler

 

[faye1030]

11 hours ago, chibiusa said:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

If only KJR is not an idiot, I will fight for this fam to have another chance of being together. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Jillia
Please do not quote pics! Thanks! :)

[lollyminx]

13 hours ago, tiMadam said:

I noticed there is no longer a gathering at the bar since mr noh incident.

Also we see more of the women characters and not so much husbands.

When all of the conflicts are resolved, it would be nice to see both women and their husbands go to the bar. The ahjummas can hang out and gossip and the husbands will gather as usual. It would be nice to see Camellia as a space for everyone, not just for the husbands. 

 

9 minutes ago, faye1030 said:

If only KJR is not an idiot, I will fight for this fam to have another chance of being together. 

 I hadn't thought of it before, but yes, if Jung-ryeol is a good man, I'd be ok with them getting back together. If the writer wrote Jung-ryeol such that he's as good as Yong-sik, I'd be ok if Dong-baek ends up with either one. Good thing the writer didn't. It's easier to choose which character to root for