SweetButters Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Interpretation of LG's Ep 10 Flowers, Ep.12 Church Scene, and Poem Guys, I don't know if you caught this in ep 12, but the doctor talked to JTE about how she has to be on antibiotics for the next three days right before hers and LG's sexy scene. So from my perspective as a girl, I know for a fact that um antibiotics can lessen the effect of birth control pills...SO UM ARE WE GOING TO SEE LITTLE LG AND JTE BABIES??????!!!!!!!! Also these scenes reminded me of scenes of a father in a waiting room waiting to hear if his wife is ok and if their baby has been born yet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Interpretation of LG's Ep 10 Flowers, Ep.12 Church Scene, and Poem Earlier someone asked what that church scene with LG crying meant, so here's how I interpreted it: LG was thinking he was probably going to die or be stuck in the in between place. Therefore, he gave JTE those flowers as a way to say "Even if I die, I'll never be gone from your memories, so please always remember me and don't forget about me" which was reflective in that poem by Lady Noh in ep 12. Other ways to interpret it is maybe future LG made a pit stop in past to give JTE those flowers because he wasn't sure of the outcome between him and LR or you could also see it as LG giving her those flowers because in future LG's time JTE was probably dead so he was never able to give her shoes flowers. Or maybe in that ep 12 scene specifically he just came to the realization that he has to die in order for JTE to live? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 24 minutes ago, cpt_falcon said: Awesome insights about the flowers! Compounded with that above and this may be a little silly, but I can't stop thinking about Jack and the Beanstalk when it comes to those flowers. Considering how many Western fairy tale themes are in this series, it may not be totally silly. In which case, maybe it's possible the flowers can somehow be utilized as a bridge between the worlds (similarly like the beanstalk connected Jack's world and the giant's castle in the clouds). How that would work? I have no idea. Maybe some component of the flowers is similar in the creation/make-up of the flute? In any case, as JTE was the one to plant the flowers, seems she would be the Jack if there is one. Making her a potential unlikely traveler and somehow manages it without a flute piece. Though as you stated, as it seems to take two years for the plant to bloom, that could be why JTE appears in KOC in 2022. Maybe yo-yo kid tipped her off re: the flowers (hence why he's also there in the security footage and gives the creepy glare right at LG/the audience... yo-yo kid is the tie between past, present and future)? I've also thought yo-yo kid, as opposed to a god, grim reaper or some kind of spirit, I've wondered if he's just another traveler, but one from a distant future where there's greater knowledge of the travel between the worlds and it's more easily/carefully done (or it is among certain individuals). Because this (the flute, the conflict driving the story, etc) seems so heavily tied to the LG's legacy/family line, what if the kid is LG/JTE's descendant? @cpt_falcon I love your connection to the whole jack in the beanstalk and the flowers JTE is growing !!! I was thinking the flower takes a long time to grow so when it blooms it feels really rewarding. So connecting it to the tale of Jack and the Beanstalk, JTE is Jack climbing a rather tall stalk or path filled with many hardships/dangers to finally obtain the reward which in Jack's case was the goose that laid golden eggs in and in JTE's case her reward is being with LG. Yea I still can't figure out yo-yo kid yet, I feel like they're either a deity of lighting and thunder or either the dragon kings of the east/west who were original people who own the flute lol. There is a possibility though that the kid could be a descendant of LG/JTE! 5 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kboramint Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 LG explained in this episode how he will know the difference between JTE and Luna. We're really going to get a situation where he does have to figure it out, are we? Also, the flower scene hasn't happened yet but JTE had a vision of it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsj3n Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 @SweetButters to be honest, after reading about antibiotics lessen the effect of birth control..and babies of our LTE couple... I can no longer concentrate to read the rest of what you type! What have you done to me? LOL Spoiler First horse, now babies??? Just now, kboramint said: LG explained in this episode how he will know the difference between JTE and Luna. We're really going to get a situation where he does have to figure it out, are we? Hehehe.. if they did the deed.. all LG need to do is ask JTE/Luna to strip. Luna has a scar on her upper right arm. Easy peasy. 2 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AgentQuake Posted May 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2020 My take on the church scene is - he had just spent the worst couple weeks of his life since the treason. Buyeong died, Lady Noh was sick, he didn't have Yeong with him, Eunsup was hurt, and then everything happened with JTE. He finally gets a win, and it's a MASSIVE win. She's safe and healthy again and happily with him this time. We have to remember that less than 48 hours ago, he was having a breakdown in the kitchen. So he's completely giddy when everything is perfect the next day. I was thinking about how he always daydreams of having her at the palace, and he was probably over the moon that she was happily there, moving into his bedroom and closet and basically making it home now, instead of him having to sneak around the palace while she pulled guns on him like last time. And then time stopped during a moment where they were truly progressing their relationship by making it public and real in his world. And he's reminded that he only has a few visits with her left, and needs to shut the door down. So all of the despair and anger and hopelessness from the past few weeks all came back and he got snapped out of his happy world and the rude awakening came. He's still in the middle of a war. 14 5 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasaman Asghari Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 LOL guys one thing I didn't quite get was why did JTE tell him there are 2 bullets left in the gun and why did he shoot the bullets and got rid of the gun? 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mychoiyoung Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 hour ago, scrawford said: @mychoiyoung @AgentQuake @Heretorant Whats with all the theories that something is up with JTE in KOC? As in the person made out with Lee Gon is not her but Luna? I might miss the post that explaining this. If so, sorry, a lot to catch up. Jte asking for alcohol is pretty pretty normal for her no? Girl likes to drink me thinks because of all the doppelgangers, twists, still unexplained issues, a few are getting a little bit "paranoid" (for lack of a better term) or suspicious. It is also fun to speculate. Others I think are just concerned for The King 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsj3n Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Aargh.. found a flaw to the logic that I pointed out earlier. If those who touched the flute has a mark, shouldn't they not be affected by the time freeze? Or unless those not affected by the freeze is because their blood was spilled on the flute as an "offering" of sacrifice hence it didn't affect them? Damn... I'm asking more questions. I'll go sleep first. Catch up with you guys later! Hopefully... I won't have much to catch up later. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmad min Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 44 minutes ago, CallieP said: I thought time stops only when LR crosses. Does he have to accompany all of them back and forth? Then it should be way more than 4 times. There are so many of his henchmen coming to and from SK to ROC and back. Time STOPS whenever someone crosses over except , the ones who do not stop are only LG and LR because they own the Half of Flute. If you remember time stop is experienced by LR as well (his orange paint Cup stops from falling down ) amongst other things. Its just that we see LG experience it more because we need to see the calculations. 38 minutes ago, mrsj3n said: Actually... I'm thinking.. Those with lightning scars.. Could it be because they had held the flute by crossing over hence the scar? It's like a mark on those who touched it? I mean.. if LR did duplicate the "keys" and his minions each used the umbrella to cross over at ease.. (as they can't expect the big boss to do the heavy lifting right?), this could explain why so many of LR's minions has the mark too. So that is why JTE, JY, ES, SJ do not have the mark because they were riding on with LG who is the holder of the key? Same goes for Lady Noh. Someone brought her over hence she did not cross over by touching the flute. So who is that someone?! Make sense no? @scrawford Read @ms_inquirytheory. My take on that Whosoevers Balance was disrupted between the world The existent Person gets SCARRED by thunder, punishment from FATE.And Aldo because they Have crossed over Both sets Doppleganger Alive Do NOT FACE any effect. Jy-Es(Crossed Over) Jte-Luna (Crossed Over) Sj Koc Mom-Sj Rok Mom PREGnant Lady Koc-Pregnant Lady Rok One set of Doppleganger died because of NATURAL Causes NO BALANCE DISRUPTION>>DO NOT FACE any effect!! Ji-Hoon(Lg doppleganger Mom)-Lg's mother died because she was weak from childbirth SJ-rok Sj died because of being in Coma.(crossed over) One set of Doppleganger Murdered Hence BALANCE DISRUPTION>>Punished BY SCARS(All of them have crossed Over) LG-ji Hoon was murdered by LR LR-Doppleganger murderd by LR himself LR Righthand man in KOC-LR right hand man in ROK killed By LG's GUards. PM Koo Koc- Pm Koo Rok is dead The Stable guy doppleganger from ROK-STABLE GUY killed in episode 1 from KOC Lady Noh's doppleganger is either Alive or died from Natural causes So NO BALANCE DISRUPTION Took place hence she does not get effected. Also flute touching is not really plausible(More like in contact in that sense BOth lady Noh and JTE have come in contact , JTE while Lg held her and Flute while crossing over) LR may have multiple copies But I do not think he will go on a distribution spree with THE MANPASIKJEOK with his Gang Of Disrupters.IMo 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nana4ever Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 33 minutes ago, CallieP said: So what you are saying that those who are there with evil intentions get hit by lightning because they deserve to be hit by lightning. Seems like you are on to something. Why is LG the exception? Why is he punished? Calling him to defeat evil, she does not have to make him feel pain though. @AgentQuakeYou stated LG wants to disrupt the balance for falling for a person in another world , thus he deserves to be punished. JTE loves LG too so she is also disrupting the balance... I was just looking at a recap of ep. 11. They made a reference to yo yo boy as being connected to the flute... he's trying to restore balance and defeat enemies. If this has been stated before...I apologize. This thread is moving so fast it's hard to remember ..lol One point that I always felt was the previous Kings knew about the parallel worlds..but they respected the need to keep balance. I think travel between them existed but rules were to be followed to keep harmony. Once the flute was broken and aparrently LR broke the rules of travelling between the worlds.. now we have this chaotic situation. My last point is...I am totally exhausted . I've been sitting here mindlessly looking at ever MV of our main couple. I think she has been giving us clues that their story may not end the way I want...but keeping hope alive I refuse to believe it and will put on my red shoes ...click 3 times and wahlaaa..they are at the palace married with twins .. one who wants to be a scientist the other a royal guard. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpt_falcon Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 hour ago, SweetButters said: Interpretation of LG's Ep 10 Flowers, Ep.12 Church Scene, and Poem Guys, I don't know if you caught this in ep 12, but the doctor talked to JTE about how she has to be on antibiotics for the next three days right before hers and LG's sexy scene. So from my perspective as a girl, I know for a fact that um antibiotics can lessen the effect of birth control pills...SO UM ARE WE GOING TO SEE LITTLE LG AND JTE BABIES??????!!!!!!!! Oh my. That is one of the primary warnings they always give you re: antibiotics and oral contraceptives. Always use secondary methods if you are on antibiotics, though as we also know, those secondary methods aren't foolproof either. I still posit there may be at least one baby.... that grows up to be the living portrait of his father, also a traveler (has some means - possibly one of LR's spare umbrellas per @Kdramatic's theory here - to travel between the worlds) and travels back in time to save his 10-yr-old father from being killed by his evil uncle? Sort of like Horus avenged his father Osiris by battling/killing Set . Then again, I'd have figured if anyone were the Horus in this scenario, it was LG who's father was killed by the "Set" figure aka LR. If LG should become a father, maybe the roles change and he becomes the Osiris while his future son becomes the Horus? While LR, the unnaturally immortal, always stays the Set? I don't know, I'm just musing at random here. RE: Jack and the Beanstalk: The "golden eggs" could be her own as well. Per the above and possible failure of birth control. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gariyada Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, mychoiyoung said: I have never commented on the ratings issue, probably because am not Korean & I maintain that as long as I enjoy a show., that's what's more important. However, the domestic reception is indeed puzzling. And right now, am just pissed off that domestically, there is not enough PR to trumpet their international success. I don't get that from the SK media & I have been checking the news. What I see are the negative write ups about the TV ratings. Isn't the success of this drama or any kdrama for that matter, a success for SK entertainment as well? I do not understand the hate. Is it jealousy with KES success? LMH's? Is it because it is such a hyped-up project? Cos most of the negative comments are targeted at these two... My 1st & last comment about this topic. This is my first time, I join and check discussions about something I watch. I am very much amazed on a few matters including ratings. - Trolling about a tv series' worth; I understand the reason of common trolling (especially within kids) but making it over a tv series on this level is pretty new to me. It's all over those English discussion boards. I don't speak Korean, I can only guess what's going on in Korean Language ones. It must be something like a hate-match. - Giving importance to ratings; Of course, popularity of an art work is important, but this type of competitiveness wasn't something I expected. After each episode, forums full of talk about ratings. I am not sure if this is same on all over the TV production market over the globe, but this is a cultural aspect I do not share. - Critics over Kim Go-Eun's apperance or lack of charm; Of course she is beautiful, she is on TV. Like every other lead actor or actress she is very good looking. I read before how high/different beauty standarts of Korea is, but this was not something I was expecting. - Low Ratings in Korea; 16-20 episodes Korean Dramas are a bit unique in the World. I didn't watch many, but they are not simple soup operas. On the other hand, they carry a lot of similarities. After I had a glance to World of the Married, maybe taste of Korean audiance shifting to an ordinary drama style, ie. "How lied to who? Who slept with who? Who is more mean to the others?" type. Producers of this Drama is really trying something different. Editing, storytelling style even the story is not something I have seen before in a production this big. I truely enjoy it. As a middle aged man from other side of the world from Korea, this series somehow manage to reach me. I really hope to see similar very original works in the future. 18 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentQuake Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Can I just say, I love all of the characters in this show. Every single character is playing their own part, and every character has had moments to shine. Still waiting on my PM episode, but we've pieced together enough about her already to fully understand her motivation. I started the show basically liking LG, JY, ES, and eventually JTE, but WOW, everyone's giving it all they have and killing their roles. LR is terrifying every time he shows up. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mychoiyoung Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 2 hours ago, plappi said: @mychoiyoung @bebebisous33 but LG didn't kill his double, and didn't even know that he was dead, but already had scars. It is clear that the doubles were killed, but why are the scars on those who weren't involved in their murder? Although I willn't argue that PM didn’t kill her double her own hands )) @plappi @ms_inquiry It had nothing to do with WHO killed WHOM. It is NOT a punishment for the killer doppelganger. It is all about balance. Remember what the Yoyo Kid said "I am trying to restore balance" Murder is against nature cos it s not yet time for the murdered doppelganger to leave their world. That's why there is an imbalance The scar is a consequence or manifestation of such imbalance. Then we should also not forget the other condition -- they have crossed-over or are still crossing-over. Which means they are or have been in worlds or spaces where they do not belong. There is already an imbalance in both worlds and then we have characters "abusing" the use of the flute - a broken one at that. Perhaps there is a need to restore the flute. Perhaps there is a higher reason why the flute only shows itself every 20 years. Perhaps it was never meant to be used arbitrarily. Imbalance & abuse, that's what am thinking now but still studying it. Isn't it great? Quote SJ real mom and ROK mom never crossed over. They stayed in their own world. Only SJ was moved so they should not be counted. @CallieP Correct. As the table shows (row 11) N or No for them both under columns Crossed & Scar. And I did not put them in red font to show the trend. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmad min Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, 1ouise said: We're up to the 20th prime number, but haven't there been more than 20 crossings?? Ok LG Started Crossing Over in 2019, Technically one half of Flute owner did not use it for his own purpose or any purpose EARLIER than that, it was INACTIVE till somepart of 2019. So TIME STOP was Never experciend by LG before 2019 BUT CROSSOVERS Happened Right!!(SJ, henchmen, Stable Guy etc) When the second half of Flute Activated, then the Time Freeze started happening at both ends. From 2019 to current date 20 Crossovers happend ( 20 prime numbers completed) 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsj3n Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, madmad min said: My take on that Whosoevers Balance was disrupted between the world The existent Person gets SCARRED by thunder, punishment from FATE.And Aldo because they Have crossed over Ji-Hoon(Lg doppleganger Mom)-Lg's mother died because she was weak from childbirth LG-ji Hoon was murdered by LR LR Righthand man in KOC-LR right hand man in ROK killed By LG's GUards. PM Koo Koc- Pm Koo Rok is dead It is not fair to put punishment on those who did not cause the unbalance. If fate wanted to balance, why punish the ones who didn't do anything? 1, 2 and 3. I don't think it's fair to punish them. 4. We don't know that the ROK PM is dead. So my next question is.. why is LG and LR not affected by the time freeze? 17 minutes ago, madmad min said: LR may have multiple copies But I do not think he will go on a distribution spree with THE MANPASIKJEOK with his Gang Of Disrupters.IMo Yes. You have a point too. Or LR might not tell them about the use of umbrella? Could be just "Here. It looks like it's gonna rain at the other side. Use my umbrella and only mine." I should really go to bed. Goodnight all! 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentQuake Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, Yasaman Asghari said: LOL guys one thing I didn't quite get was why did JTE tell him there are 2 bullets left in the gun and why did he shoot the bullets and got rid of the gun? cus it was HOT AF. but I would like to know as well lol i thought maybe he wanted to discard the evidence but then drama king YEETED it far away poor game of thrones sub captain probably had to go searching for it after the dramatic monarchs flounced off also is there an in universe reason as to why dramatic smoke was EVERYWHERE? 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmad min Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, mrsj3n said: It is not fair to put punishment on those who did not cause the unbalance. If fate wanted to balance, why punish the ones who didn't do anything? 1, 2 and 3. I don't think it's fair to punish them. 4. We don't know that the ROK PM is dead. So my next question is.. why is LG and LR not affected by the time freeze? I should really go to bed. 1 is Not PUNISHED I mentioned it in the case. 2. LG is being WARNED not PUNISHED, Thunder and FATE are Hinting Asking him to Help RESTORE the balance. 3. Seriously??Why should anyone have any Sympathy with a greedy murderer minion.?? 4. Eun is most likely Dead. I already Answered Why LG AND LR are Not effected by TIME FREEZE, they have a piece of FLUTE everytime with them and They are The Owner so to speak of EACH HALF. Flute acts like an Insulator to Time Freeze. Happy Sleeptalking till then 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpt_falcon Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, madmad min said: LR may have multiple copies But I do not think he will go on a distribution spree with THE MANPASIKJEOK with his Gang Of Disrupters.IMo I wonder if he's putting pieces of Manpasikjeok in those 2G phones? The minions all seem to have them. Mundane object that wouldn't cause any suspicion if they had it with them all the time and easy to stow away somewhere. Though that would amplify the necessity to get those phones back and why LR's minion was so intent and promised LR he'd get the phone back from the girl who murdered her roommate (or the doppelganger's roommate). Aside from any incriminating info on it and the phones' links to JTE's investigation. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koreaboooo Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, kboramint said: LG explained in this episode how he will know the difference between JTE and Luna. We're really going to get a situation where he does have to figure it out, are we? Also, the flower scene hasn't happened yet but JTE had a vision of it? The flower scene wasn't a vision. That LG was from the future and he really did paid her a visit. I believe in his timeloop, JTE might've told him her favorite flowers which he did bring. Either that or he brought flowers he think she would like. Since she remembered that scene as a breakup scene she told current LG she doesn't like flowers because it reminds her of the breakup scene. 24 minutes ago, Gariyada said: - Low Ratings in Korea; 16-20 episodes Korean Dramas are a bit unique in the World. I didn't watch many, but they are not simple soup operas. On the other hand, they carry a lot of similarities. After I had a glance to World of the Married, maybe taste of Korean audiance shifting to an ordinary drama style, ie. "How lied to who? Who slept with who? Who is more mean to the others?" type. Producers of this Drama is really trying something different. Editing, storytelling style even the story is not something I have seen before in a production this big. I truely enjoy it. As a middle aged man from other side of the world from Korea, this series somehow manage to reach me. I really hope to see similar very original works in the future. Sounds like soap opera... not my taste hence why I didn't watch that but it's understandable older viewers might be into that. 22 minutes ago, mychoiyoung said: It had nothing to do with WHO killed WHO. It is NOT a punishment for the doppelganger. It is all about balance. Remember what the Yoyo Kid said "I am trying to restore balance" Murder is against nature cos it s not yet time for the murdered doppelganger to leave their world. That's why there is an imbalance The scar is a consequence of such imbalance. I agree with this too. In fact I don't think god care much about the whole right and wrong of what people do since humans in general are always consistently in the gray area. God only cares for the balance of the world. Humans from other universe could probably live with each other without any offense or punishment as long as the balance is not disrupted like how Lady Nam had lived in KOR almost her whole life and it's fine and SJ living in ROK is also fine since there's no unbalance, but when LR crossed over trying to be god, dictating who can die and who can live, he's breaking that balance. @Yasaman Asghari I took that whole gesture as symbolic. JTE still have 2 bullets left. She doesn't feel her battle is finished yet so LG shot the last 2 bullets to indicate he finished that battle off for her. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sintia89 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Heretorant said: Spoiler How’s episode 12 going for you guys? For me, there’s been no progression. No kidding, I spent the past 2 hours playing and replaying the inconsiderate scene. Let’s observe the kiss, shall we? Here’s my 10 part series after I’ve watched it for about 100 times. 1) He kisses her neck. It’s not just a peck, he licks her neck. He’s saying “I want you.” 2) She’s taken aback. Pay attention to the way she moves her mouth and body. It’s so sensual. 3) He eases in with a peck. 4) The look on his face says it all. He wants her badly! 5) The way she looks at him says she’s nervous but knows what’s coming. Like, “oh shiz, I teased him and now he’s going for it.” 6) He’s staring mostly at her lips when he’s speaking to her. 7) He goes in for a full on passionate kiss. Ahhh the lip and jaw movement! Sexy as hell! 8) He pulls back, his stare goes from her lips to her eyes and back to her lips, he touches her lips, meets her eyes, gulps and then goes in for another kiss. 9) Even as the camera pulls away for a far away shot, there’s still head movement. It looks too real to be fake. Me thinks they’re still kissing. 10) His body completely relaxes and you can see it sink onto hers. SEXUAL TENSION AT ITS BEST! From a minoz’s point of view, this is the best and most sensual kiss he’s done. It tops even the lobster kiss. The lobster kiss was sweet but this one has sexual tension written all over it. I’ve never seen a Korean drama couple that’s rather innocent had this much sexual chemistry! It’s out of the sbs korean drama world. I can’t get enough! Yes.. no more argument on that... even after watch that over and over make me do "something" with my husband... 1 hour ago, Kdramatic said: Do you guys think LL broke the flute into many pieces? When Luna went into his apartment, there were multiple umbrellas in the umbrella stand. I guess this would allow whoever he wants to go to and from each world without him actually accompanying them every time. It will also make it harder for LG if there are various pieces he has to find to hold the complete flute. But if you look closely, the shape is all the same.. why? Maybe he make copy of it? To confused lee gon? Edited May 23, 2020 by Jillia Please do not post consecutively, edit you previous post instead. Thanks! 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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