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[Drama 2019] Watcher, 왓쳐

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I found nothing wrong at all with the hug, honestly surprised at the attention it is getting.

 

Isn't it completely normal that the two people who have been searching for the killer for such personal reasons and then find out that the one they finally caught can't be the same 'turtle' who was part of their 'stories'?

 

They share something that no one else does and that is the experiences they went through separately but were related to the same circumstance of corruption.  It seemed like a simple hug that said I know how you feel.  And it was probably something lawyer Han really needed at the time.  It just shows what a great kid Young Goon is and to me had absolutely nothing romantic about it.  Just one human being comforting another.

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Even though I haven't posted much in here, I've been keeping up with the episodes because well... I can seldom resist a whodunit from OCN. ;) There are things to like about this show (which is why I'm still watching) but for a while there I really wasn't especially enthused about the blame game that was going on. Memories are notoriously unreliable to be sure and for a child to have to grow up orphaned because of what other adults did is terrible. Maybe I was biased because as the show progressed I grew to really like HSK's Do Chi Gwang a lot. I wasn't sure about him at first but I've come to appreciate and love that laid-back facade which essentially masks a shrewd operator. 

 

Until recently I was inclined to give Han Tae Joo a bit of a benefit of the doubt as she was a victim of a rather heinous crime. It's understandable to not only catch the culprit is but be driven by a single-minded mission to get it done. There's no doubting her wit and savvy. But the recklessness by which she gets the job done bothered me especially when she started casting aspersions on DCG based on the minutest of evidence. I don't have a problem with suspicion but then to mess around with Kim Young Goon's head on the basis of all that made me largely frustrated.

 

It's obvious that until the last episode, the team hasn't been much of a team for a while. They all came together seemingly with similar goals. But the reality is that when a group of disparate individuals are put together with various agendas and investigative styles, conflict is bound to rear its ugly head. It's not all bad... conflict has its place if deployed properly. Learning how to resolve conflict in a constructive way can lead to more useful ideas or threads to be pursued. However, trust is the glue and while they functioned as a team, they weren't one in mind.

 

The position of "Turtle" while not hereditary, is based on a succession model. That's an interesting development. He's the Jang Society's executioner. And the Jang Society is like a star chamber within the police force that acts as judge and jury. A self-appointed vigilante group. This reminds me of the second in the Dirty Harry franchise... Magnum Force. (Yeah, yeah... showing my age and the influence of my father here)

 

Sigh... evidently even after Episode 12, DCG isn't in the clear judging from the previews. Sigh... I don't want him to be Turtle the First and I have my doubts regarding that because he operates with a very different MO. His tendency is to set up traps and/or plant evidence. He tends to use his smarts to get things done rather than violence. He reads people generally very effectively. However an interesting development indeed with the arrival of HTJ's ex. I knew he had survived but thought he had been locked up in some psychiatric facility languishing away from trauma. I had no expectation that he would return.

 

Another person I find fascinating is the Commissioner. She gave the impression in the early days that she was merely an overambitious bureaucrat who is more interested in propping her self-image. Lately though, I get the impression that while she's a political animal, she does seem to care about corruption and vigilantes in the force.

 

Anyway, the show gets better with each new week. Hope it all ends well for the team and that my faith in DCG proves to be warranted. ;)

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5 hours ago, triplem said:

who found that hug strange & a tad out of place if romance was its intention.  I kept thinking she saw him when he was in his pyjamas at 10 , she was a full grown lady in her 20s . And now they will date ? Yikes , felt way too “cougar-ish“:joy: So the idea of a love line here would kill the drama for me . I always view DCK & HTJ in their own strange way became YG ‘s guardians since he lost his parents, somewhat looking out for him from afar.  They are also in a way  trying to make up to him for wrongly putting his Father to jail . Though in TJ’s case it’s still her own revenge that’s priority 

 

hmm i don't find it strange. romance never crossed my mind and dating, even further off haha. it just felt they were both sharing that common burden between them and younggoon knew that too, it felt more like an expression of empathy. besides, it didn't really feel like a hug too. he just sort of put one hand on her back, his other hand was just by his side. kind of like a pat on the back? hahaha. he clearly knows their boundaries. it seems he initiated it only because of the emotionally heavy event (for both of them) of finding 'Turtle' (well, at least one turtle).

 

1 hour ago, Kathy said:

I found nothing wrong at all with the hug, honestly surprised at the attention it is getting.

 

Isn't it completely normal that the two people who have been searching for the killer for such personal reasons and then find out that the one they finally caught can't be the same 'turtle' who was part of their 'stories'?

 

They share something that no one else does and that is the experiences they went through separately but were related to the same circumstance of corruption.  It seemed like a simple hug that said I know how you feel.  And it was probably something lawyer Han really needed at the time.  It just shows what a great kid Young Goon is and to me had absolutely nothing romantic about it.  Just one human being comforting another.

 

agree with this! a simple hug that said i know how you feel. not all hugs involve romance.

 

on how it looked uncomfortable - i remember in the earlier eps it was mentioned taejoo fears getting touched by others. the scene where she frantically washed her hands, imagining blood on it, after shaking hands with chi-kwang too. it wasn't really apparent later on tbh, but if it still holds true, the fact she didn't resist this 'hug' does speak volumes about how much she trusts younggoon. and that's all there is to it - trust (in the common experiences/traumas they've had) and nothing else. maybe a substantial amount of guilt on her part towards him too.

 

6 hours ago, thistle said:

 

I'm there, too.  I thought it was rather odd during the first couple of episodes because

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they seemed really kindly flirty and attracted.  But then it fell off and I thought that was a good thing.  Haven't seen the hug yet except for some stills, and I thought it seemed rather awkwardly uncomfortable.  I don't have an issue with the age thing but, as you said, it's the prior relationship that makes it icky.

 

 

'flirty' seems quite extreme here. it seems to suggest they've been behaving to each other in a playful/sexually attracted way....which i don't think that's what we've seen so far. at the very most they've exchanged looks of understanding and concern for each other, perhaps more than usual because they can empathise with what each of them is going through/has gone through.

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This is how I feel right now after eps 12 with subs.:mrgreen:  

Spoiler

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Feels  like we are  further from finding out the truth then we were before,  and I wonder if at the end they will actually be able to expose  Jang Society much less bring them down. Something DC Park said before his arrest bugged me. He said theoretically if such an organisation exists , the higher ups would have never allowed it . They could not possibly lose all the cream of the crop. Then he said if they did , they all moved independently and that they would only know their own nominees. This means  it is very hard to trace how high up or extensive this network is . He also gave a very cryptic answer when YG  asked him about Jang Society.  He mentioned how one case is used to cover up another and that is how it works between public officials. And soon these cases get buried as so much happens in the country and I suppose people forget. So this reinforces the ongoing "turf war" between  factions within the police and  the prosecution. In fact Yeom was rather happy with the capture of DC Park and she said it was a trade off for the death of DA Min.

 

Also Yeom at the beginning of the eps gave a rather vague answer  when asked if she knew about Jang Soc . She seemed rather unperturbed and said be it the army or prosecution , there are private groups ( Sharing Society, Unified Society etc) and that Jang is just one of them. Rumours are rife that these secret groups appoint one person in each rank. When DCK asked at the end if they should catch Jang Society , she says if it exists, of course... so why give such ambiguous answers here?  Are these groups so covert in their operations that even someone as high up as she is  cannot know for sure? Or she is part of them, hence 'led' the team to catch DC Park whom I think now may not actually be part of the Jang group but is definitely corrupted ?( I was not too happy that DCK fabricated evidence to catch DC Park . This seems to be his MO and would he again regret this the way he was sorry about YG's dad?)

 

And then now , there's TJ husband...is he a part of a different faction ? We know he isn't a cop , so not a Jang member...but there are other private groups right?   So I am back to knowing much more but knowing nothing. The only thing I can be certain of is that there are at least two Turtles and that Jae Sik is showing great progress in his English skills :lol:. Loved how he used an English word to describe the weapon . 

 

 

Edited by triplem
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So I was wrong after all! Turtle was not a woman. :w00t: He was young and Tae Joo realised that he was not the one who cut her thumb. Maybe he the recent killer of Jang Society but there were others before him.

 

I hope Tae Joo can give up at her need to catch herself the killer. It was a stupid thing to do. If the killer was a  little more careful ( how convenient he was not!!) , he would not have any problem to take her down easily.

I was not comformtable to see Do Chi-Gwang planting evidence the second time because he thought he is doing the right thing. I do think that Park Jin-Woo was corupt but I wish they would have caught him on the act/ or with strong evidence.

 

Another thing... WOW! The prosecutors had a way to steal the drugs and then they use a distribution network. 

I am still have Yeom Dong-Sook on the top of my suspect list.

Let see who else will be the next to fall.

 

 

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Is romance on the cards? (Surprised by reactions to the hug when I started back reading) It never occurred to me that the hug was anything more than an act of human kindness or empathy. Maybe I need to watch the sequence again to be absolutely certain I haven't missed anything ;). It isn't the age gap so much the issue as the sort of dysfunctional familial dynamic that they've been aiming for in the show. If the show is trying to set up both HTJ and YG in some kind of noona romance then they're doing a lousy job of it... it's come out of absolutely nowhere. TJ seems to me more likely to be paired up with DCG. Not that I think there's any kind of romance in the air between those two. In some ways they complement each other and he understands her better than anyone else. But I never once thought that we'd get romance in this drama on any level.

 

Besides, YG gave her the hug because he thought she was leaving the team. Seems more like a goodbye and thanks for the fish gesture. I think they both need some closure in their lives but darn it... the show just refuses to keep things simple. It's one hurdle after another.

 

The last two episodes were the best yet IMO.

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1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Is romance on the cards? (Surprised by reactions to the hug when I started back reading) It never occurred to me that the hug was anything more than an act of human kindness or empathy. Maybe I need to watch the sequence again to be absolutely certain I haven't missed anything

 No, you did not miss anything. It was not a romantic hug. IMO Young Goon just heard that she will leave the team. Everyone in the team get closer with time.

 

People have a soft spot for romance or anything about feelings. I read everytime that people don`t want to see romance in the thriller dramas but they are so excited when two characters came closer. :D

 

I personally like when thriller genre dramas have moments of human kindness, friendship, closeness.  

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Just binge watched all 12 episodes of this over the long weekend, and so the husband is not dead?? Wahh....

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5 hours ago, pyeongsaeng said:

'flirty' seems quite extreme here. it seems to suggest they've been behaving to each other in a playful/sexually attracted way.

 

 

Apparently you did not read what I wrote:  I said that in the first couple of episodes, they seemed attracted but that after that they did not.  I thought that the hug was a little off kilter because it seemed that they were being untruthful with one another yet again.

 

I did not see the hug as comforting at all.  It was quite uncomfortable and out of character, the situation notwithstanding.  As with so many other situations in this drama, what appears on the surface to be one thing is actually another.  The hug was a lie from both sides.

 

3 hours ago, larus said:

So I was wrong after all! Turtle was not a woman.

 

In spite of the fact that the Turtle that got caught repeated things that were said to YG by Turtle, I still think that the Turtle we saw trying to kill YG was a woman.  The "caught Turtle" was high on drugs and was undoubtedly working under orders for someone.  He could have been coached.

 

 

 

 

.............editing because:  I wrote a whole lot more for this post and it all inexplicably disappeared.  oh rats!  maybe I'll find the patience to re-write later, now I'm just going to go pout and drink a cup of tea.  ^_^

 

 

 

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Oooo! So much to digest.

 

Yeom is definitely part of  Giant's Club... her tit-for-tat chat with DCK pretty much confirmed that imo. Also, fairly cryptic when she said that DC Park doesn't realise that he is dispensable to the GC. Also the way she implied that DCK could take the job of DC at the end... 

 

I think it is fascinating that DC Park(and before Chief Kim) keeps suspecting that DCK is part of Giant's Club. He certainly has all the markers of someone capable of coordinating a network... and the morals as well... I was pretty shocked that DCK was willing to fabricate evidence again! (still think it means we might see him behind bars at the end of the show).

 

Not surprised that 1-hubby is alive and 2- that they are divorced(after severe trauma a lot of marriages break down). Since they never mentioned he was dead I always assumed he was alive. I wonder if he was a cop... or prosecution...  Seems like both of his thumbs were cut off (I think the only other people were the two bodies in the massage parlour). Interestingly, the fact he had both thumbs removed completely removes his human-ness... 

 
 
 
1
Spoiler

 

Wild theory!!!

We keep talking about manipulation of memory. What if ex-hubby had his thumbs removed before HTJ? Say by a criminal and so he is obsessed with the idea of thumbs because of it? ... especially the left thumb, the first we see, looks like a much older and messier scar than the one on his right hand which is very clean and surgical, like HTJ.

 

What if he is actually part of this? That he ordered for her thumb to be cut off... I don't think he did it btw but that he could be one of the people controlling behind the scenes. She just remembers him as being one of the hostages because she can't process the idea that he was the one to remove her thumb. If he is crazy (and the way he appeared/greeted her gives me that feeling) then I could imagine him removing his own thumb as a way to cover-up what happened.

 

Like I said super crazy theory so... feel free to ignore!

 

 

The hug... I think we are forgetting aspects of cultural norms in Korea as well. The hug was awkward but then it *would* be awkward in K society for a younger man to hug an older woman with whom he only has a work relationship. None of our leads are very affectionate and I think we need to chalk it up to two people who are not used to giving or receiving physical affection or support.

 

LO will watch tonight and if he has insights will let y'all know!

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“Hotel Del Luna” Surpasses 10 Percent Ratings For 1st Time + “Watcher” Also Hits New Personal Best

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OCN’s “Watcher” also set a new personal best for itself, with episode 12 scoring average ratings of 6.1 percent and peaking at 6.7 percent across cable, IPTV, and satellite platforms. The channel sets their target audience on the 2549 age bracket, and they scored an average of 4 percent and peaked at 4.4 percent with them.

https://www.soompi.com/article/1344885wpp/hotel-del-luna-surpasses-10-percent-ratings-for-1st-time-watcher-also-hits-new-personal-best

 

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3 hours ago, thistle said:

 

Apparently you did not read what I wrote:  I said that in the first couple of episodes, they seemed attracted but that after that they did not.  I thought that the hug was a little off kilter because it seemed that they were being untruthful with one another yet again.

 

 

i read what you wrote, just felt that flirty was too extreme to describe them, even in the first couple of episodes. being attracted to each other and being flirty with each other are on two different levels...i agree with you that they may have seemed attracted to each other because of their common trauma, but they definitely did not display flirty behaviour. it was nowhere near 'flirty'. anyhow...i do like that there's no romance here so far because the suspicions, the mystery and the dynamics between the characters have been more than engaging and intriguing enough. i hope they keep to it till the end (4 episodes to go!)

 

also, grats to the whole production team as ep12 reached 6.1%! saw that it's currently ranked 3rd among ocn's all-time highest episode ratings, that's no mean feat :)i particularly like the directing and camerawork in this too, the angles at which some scenes are shot are very nice.

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3 hours ago, thistle said:

In spite of the fact that the Turtle that got caught repeated things that were said to YG by Turtle, I still think that the Turtle we saw trying to kill YG was a woman.  The "caught Turtle" was high on drugs and was undoubtedly working under orders for someone.  He could have been coached. 

 

We`ll see. But I really thought the one who attacked Young Goon was a woman as well. I paid close attention when Thumb Killer was fighting with Tae Joo. Sometimes I saw some similarity but not compleatly. 

 

About the pincers... It is interesting that the only blood that was not found on it was Tae Joo and her ex-husband`s. The torture instrument was used by all the killers on every victims but not for Tae Joo and her husband. It`s curious.

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I am trying to recall but not successful... it was never mentioned what was the case TK was working on when she got her thumb cut, right? Just that she had suspicions about KJM’s wife’s murder? 

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6 hours ago, larus said:

About the pincers... It is interesting that the only blood that was not found on it was Tae Joo and her ex-husband`s. The torture instrument was used by all the killers on every victims but not for Tae Joo and her husband. It`s curious.

 

You pointed out a very interesting fact.  How many blood samples the coroner get from the torture instrument?  Was it 10?  We had 6 bodies, 5 of which had the thumb cut.  We then have our first victim, the guy who Young Geun thought he kidnapped his own daughter, following the organ trafficker's thumb, Kim Jae Myung's thumbs.  So we have 8 out of 10.  If the other two aren't from Tae Joo and her husband.  Who could they belong to?

 

The blood samples cannot be of the two most recent victims.  It doesn't seem to fit the timeline.  Since the torture instrument was left at Young Geun's apartment by "Turtle".  If "turtle" killed and/or tortured the latest two victims, shouldn't they both be dead by now?  :confused:

 

If these blood samples do in fact belong to the latest victims, Tae Joo's husband is even more suspicious.  He would become my number one suspect! 

 

1 hour ago, Ameera Ali said:

Latest member to the club :sweat_smile:

 

Love this scene, cracks me up!  Young Geun still has a lot to learn. 

 

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9 hours ago, my0t1 said:

If these blood samples do in fact belong to the latest victims, Tae Joo's husband is even more suspicious.  He would become my number one suspect! 

 I don`t know if he is the mastermind or not. I admit that it came through my mind for a second that he could knew the thumb killer, and he accepted to be tortured along Tae Joo to not get the suspisious on him. (It`s crazy, I know) But... why he did not find a better way to obtain the information from his wife?

 

I think he is sure involved with the corupt people one way or another. I can`t wait to see more about him or about Tae Joo`s past.

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Or, he is like PSY... after being tortured, he turned and worked for the baddies? 

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12 hours ago, ktcjdrama said:

I am trying to recall but not successful... it was never mentioned what was the case TK was working on when she got her thumb cut, right? Just that she had suspicions about KJM’s wife’s murder? 

The only thing we know is that she was reinvestigating KJM’s case. So I think it was a warning not to do so . 

 

12 hours ago, my0t1 said:

You pointed out a very interesting fact.  How many blood samples the coroner get from the torture instrument?  Was it 10?  We had 6 bodies, 5 of which had the thumb cut.  We then have our first victim, the guy who Young Geun thought he kidnapped his own daughter, following the organ trafficker's thumb, Kim Jae Myung's thumbs.  So we have 8 out of 10.  If the other two aren't from Tae Joo and her husband.  Who could they belong to?

Do your 5 bodies include the two guys found in the massage parlour?  What about the ex cop Park who is now in jail ( ex Muil employee) ? 

@larus TJ & her ex husband were most likely tortured by the wayward cop Kim Kang Wook ( who was killed off by Jang in eps 2 or 3) . Perhaps he was  the 1st Turtle. 

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