[Drama 2019] Watcher, 왓쳐

[2handsintertwined]

Hi!!! I am so curious about this drama. I said, "I know this actor."  I said, "Is he in Are you Human?" I think he was a robot? Well, I think he is, right? I think Seo Kang Joon is so handsome!!! Well, do any of you like this drama?

[bebebisous33]

@titania1000 Money Lover can not be the woman involved in the organ trafficking, the supposed wife of the CEO Shin. Money Lover is a different person. Even if Money Lover is a woman, this doesn't really change my theory that the killer could have been working next to DCK and HJM. Don't you find it strange that YDS mentioned to HJM how she met him at a lecture and the ex-cop couldn't recall the grade he gave her? She wanted to know if he remembered her but he couldn't... Notice that YSD knows DCK pretty well.

I had written this theory earlier that "boyfriend" could be a woman in reality...and this name was used in order to mislead her colleagues.

 

For me, HJR is not the main villain, rather an accomplice.  

 

@2handsintertwined For me, this is a good drama. A rather dark crime drama with no romance...

[thistle]

2 hours ago, tinymel said:

(If you don't hear from me next week it is because LO has changed all the passwords to prevent me from watching ahead of him... this is a total joke but shhh...)

 

I promise never to tell.   

 

 

..................and I'm watching my way through episode 8 slowly because I keep having this sense of dread.  Yeah, that is partly because I know YG's dad is doomed to die.  But it's also because there seem to be small clues tucked in amongst the other stuff; some of them are subtle, some are not.  All interesting.

 

Not subtle:  Park and Yeom both want to get their hands on the ledger and trying to cut one another out of the process.  And just exactly HOW did Yeom know that YGDad was in Park's office?  Either she has spies or she has the place bugged or both. 

 

Also not subtle:  the snarks between Yeom and YGDad.  He did not ever wanna touch her hand.  She forces him with the picture-taking.  And then there was that chat about when she was his student.  There was a lot behind that and we just don't know what it was.

 

Interesting that YGDad insisted on using Jae Sik's phone and referred to him as "that trustworthy friend" which sounded ironic.  We've now got Jang checking up on Jae Sik's background.  I'm getting more worried for our bodyguard (I still 990% trust him).

 

Subtle or not?  When Lawyer Han was in the Investigations office with DCK, the camera panned across SY's desk.  There were two pictures on it:  one was of her but the other one was hidden partly behind the plastic figure in front of it.  Looked like maybe a guy in a fancy police cap.  Who?  And is there any meaning to those 4 plastic figures?  

 

Anyway, that's just about as far as I've gotten (well, I did get past the part where the nosy security guard is trying to pump YG for information).....I know that the rest cannot go well.  Oh my.  Looks like I'll be taking the rest of this episode a few minutes at a time, maybe with the volume off.  I can't deal with stress-y stuff, and this episode is stress-y.    But I really wouldn't miss it watching it!  This drama is really good.

 

 

[2handsintertwined]

2 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

 For me, this is a good drama. A rather dark crime drama with no romance...

Ok. So it's a good drama for you? Well, I really love your opinion on things. You make me want to watch it. So it's a dark crime drama with no romance. Well, that's something I've never watched. I love romance!  

[Kathy]

I am really enjoying this drama on lots of levels, hope it maintains those levels through till the end.

 

It seems OCN produces a lot of well written dramas - any others that might be recommended?

[thistle]

6 minutes ago, 2handsintertwined said:

Well, do any of you like this drama?

 

I do!  It's really making me think about "whodunnit" and about what will happen next.  

 

For me, a drama is just entertaining if I watch it and then forget about it until the next episode.  That's just okay.  But if a drama captures my attention so that I continue thinking about it during the week and I really follow on a thread like this one where we are all considering theories about what is going on, then that is a very good drama.  

 

By my standards, Watcher is very, very good.  

 

4 minutes ago, Kathy said:

It seems OCN produces a lot of well written dramas - any others that might be recommended?

 

I don't know one network from another but I will say that Doctor John is also a very, very good drama (see my comment above).  I can't stop thinking about that one either.  And I think that it is very much worth recommending.

[2handsintertwined]

9 minutes ago, thistle said:

I do!  It's really making me think about "whodunnit" and about what will happen next.  

 

For me, a drama is just entertaining if I watch it and then forget about it until the next episode.  That's just okay.  But if a drama captures my attention so that I continue thinking about it during the week and I really follow on a thread like this one where we are all considering theories about what is going on, then that is a very good drama.  

 

By my standards, Watcher is very, very good.  

Wow! I like the way you describe it. I love "whodunnit." I like mysteries! Well, it sounds like this is the drama for you. You make me want to watch it too!

 

@bebebisous33 I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable  I think we've been in threads before. I always liked your opinions. Did I make you uncomfortable?  

[tinymel]

11 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

Don't you find it strange that YDS mentioned to HJM how she met him at a lecture and the ex-cop couldn't recall the grade he gave her? She wanted to know if he remembered her but he couldn't

 

Yes, I thought that was very strange... especially since he *clearly* remembered HTJ from the academy--and that there was something going on with her family... she dropped out but was there something in her background?

 

as for Money Lover... I had a look and the name is saved as 돈벌레 ... which literally means "moneyworm", the name for a kind of centipede in Korea. If you google "돈벌레" you can see what they look like... It is an interesting imagery... perhaps not super relevant to any theories but I was curious to see if I could pinpoint why I think ML is a woman but didn't have luck, instead came back with this... I'd be lucky to get a C+ for a grade! 
 

So very curious to see how our various "watchers" will start to reveal themselves going forward!

[bebebisous33]

47 minutes ago, 2handsintertwined said:

Wow! I like the way you describe it. I love "whodunnit." I like mysteries! Well, it sounds like this is the drama for you. You make me want to watch it too!

 

@bebebisous33 I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable  I think we've been in threads before. I always liked your opinions. Did I make you uncomfortable?  

Not at all. You are right that we met on different threads before. I like romance too but I like crime drama as well where you have to pay attention to details in order to discover the identity of the culprit. So far, the mystery is not resolved at all that's why it is so entertaining.

[disembody]

3 hours ago, Kathy said:

I am really enjoying this drama on lots of levels, hope it maintains those levels through till the end.

 

It seems OCN produces a lot of well written dramas - any others that might be recommended?

oh man. if you're into this line of dramas then yes. there was life on mars which is a procedural (and a british original) then there's save me 1 and 2. save me 2 just ended and i loooved it, probs more than s1 (which is where my icon is from!!), but they're both phenomenal. very very very different in tone and two different ways of manifesting but both about cults...

 

then there's trap which is part of the dramatic cinema series (next up will be hell is other people.) there's a mixed reaction to this and the ending is a bit ridiculous but honestly i loved every minute of it. it's INSANE. very grisly and dark and fun tbh.

 

now on to watcher:

all the theories are really interesting. one thing i think we need to remember is that there is no i guess perfect person. this show is constantly making us ask what a "criminal" is and who can watch and who watches the watcher. we're on a wild goose chase but it may be way easier than we think. after all by the end of these really convoluted affairs there's always the simplest culprits...

[my0t1]

After reading everyone's insightful deductions, here are my two most probable suspects:

 

(1) Yeom Dong Sook

 

13 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I have the impression that his "delusion" comes from the fact that he was never acknowledged by his colleagues, hence he decided to compensate this, he thought that having power and money would help him to get recognized. He started using people as pawns so that he could destroy the team he felt excluded. He could be the one who always had to help in the background, sitting behind a desk for example.

 

bebebisous33's profiling of the mastermind killer fits Yeom very well.  Although she's climbed up the ladder successfully and has become the commissioner.  I bet she wasn't well recognized before.  This is why she's still very mindful of KJM's impression of her. 

 

6 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

Don't you find it strange that YDS mentioned to HJM how she met him at a lecture and the ex-cop couldn't recall the grade he gave her? She wanted to know if he remembered her but he couldn't...

 

I think the fact that KJM gave her a C+ score in crime scene investigation course must have struck her badly.  She believes she's much smarter than everyone yet when people did not recognize this she began to have these twisted convoluted schemes and became the vigilante killing off bad guys that even the best detectives and prosecutors failed to catch.  She must have somehow gathered a group of minions who help her execute the killings. 

 

(2) The camera man/woman

 

6 hours ago, titania1000 said:

I can easily imagine how he could have felt small inside this groupe where KJM was shining with his charisma and his natural ability to adapt and blend with his environment while DCK was the ace who was making the deductions. 

 

I think this fits the camera man/woman's profile very well.  S/he feels small when s/he's in front of this group of star detectives.  This person became the silent "watcher" and found way to defeat them.  He began scheming evil plans and somehow Jang Hyung Koo, the missing police now found dead, noticed something strange.  JHK became his/her first victim.  Since then s/he became the vigilante killing off bad guys that the legal system fails to catch.

 

If the camera man is a guy, he could very well be the "Boyfriend".  If this person is a she, can she be Yeom Dong Sook the commissioner?

 

[EDIT] Actually i want to correct myself.  The camera man/woman can be the "Boyfriend" (who can either be a man or a woman) or Yeom.

[thistle]

3 hours ago, disembody said:

one thing i think we need to remember is that there is no i guess perfect person. this show is constantly making us ask what a "criminal" is and who can watch and who watches the watcher. we're on a wild goose chase but it may be way easier than we think. after all by the end of these really convoluted affairs there's always the simplest culprits...

 

We certainly have to watch for the unexpected.  The best place for someone to "hide" is in plain sight by simply being "not noticeable" enough to pay attention to.  This is one of the reasons I have suspicions about SY.  She's always there, she's always helpful, she never intrudes, and the others simply accept her presence without question.

 

Here's a thought:  are SY and Yeom somehow related?  Mother and daughter?  Aunt and niece?  I really think that they could be working together.  We just don't know the connection yet.   

 

Doesn't YG say in the promo that they've fallen into a trap?  The unseen Watcher will undoubtedly be ready to spring that trap soon.  Usually something major happens in a drama when it passes the halfway point so its time for us to find out more and its time for our team to get into some sort of trouble.

 

.............and I just remembered something that stood out in episode 8.

It may mean nothing or it could mean something:  two people killed themselves in the gymnasium that now houses Investigations.  We heard that in the first episode, and this is (if I recall properly) only the second time it has been mentioned.  What if the dead officers decided to die as a result of an Investigations sting?  What if the dead officers were related to the Watcher? 

 

We just haven't had a thread to tie some circumstances together.  Could the suicides be that thread?

 

 

 

 

[2handsintertwined]

7 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

Not at all. You are right that we met on different threads before. I like romance too but I like crime drama as well where you have to pay attention to details in order to discover the identity of the culprit. So far, the mystery is not resolved at all that's why it is so entertaining.

So I was right! We've met on different threads! So you remember me?  So you like romance too! Yes, me too. I love finding out who the culprit is. So the mystery isn't solved yet. Thanks for the info. Well, thanks for telling me. I'm excited. So I've already started episode 1! Wish me luck! @bebebisous33! And I'm so happy we meet again!

 

 

I like it! Episode 1 is good  

credit to drama

 

Edit:  My edit skills are really bad!

[sheelatpsfm]

The one thing that I'm curious is when YG was searching for the guy who was murdered in the public toilet (who was the one in charge of selling human organs), he encountered the killer. The killer hit him and pointed the gun at him. That's where YG stated that the gun was a policeman gun. Did the killer know YG or he just decided to let him go? 

 

The irony part is that YG dad had to be murdered in the same house where his mom was murdered 15 years ago. Is it for the ledger or to stop him for investigating the case? 

They keep showing us the photo of the 5 guys which is pointing to something but not giving us any clue to what it is. So there are more questions than answers. 

 

Just when YG about to start a new relationship with his dad, he had to loose him again. I think deep inside of him, he thinks maybe his dad didn't murder his mom. It was sad to see the ring that he didn't get the chance to give to his wife. 

 

When YG open the fridge after coming back home from hospital, he saw the food left by his dad.. soo sad... 

 

I'm thinking he may start to have some memories coming back and he already questioning did his dad killed his mom but then he also questioning could it be Detective Do killed his mom instead. He already like not soo trusting Detective Do. 

 

Behind the scenes for ep7 and 8... 

 

OCN has good dramas for this year... 

I'm currently watching Watcher and Class of lies. 

 

[bebebisous33]

@my0t1 I really enjoyed reading your post because you summarized the ideas I had developed before pretty well. I would like to add something about Yeom. Remember that she was not happy that YG would join the team, once she discovered his identity. However, after meeting him, she was fine... maybe she was afraid that YG would recognize her, if she was the culprit.

 

Furthermore, I also wanted to point out the huge time gap. DCK had always thought that HJM was the killer because he had imagined he was talking to him, when he called to the house. Because right after the phone call, he went to the flat and discovered the body of YG's mother hence he thought, she had just been killed by HJM. Since he was so convinced that HJM was the culprit, he might have fabricated the evidence against HJM (putting the jacket of HJM covered in blood by the blood of YG's mother). I guess, DCK was afraid that HJM might get away with the crime hence he did that: he used the jacket as evidence. HJM was indeed convicted due to YG's testimony and the jacket. Remember HTJ's reproach to DCK: "You always think, you do what is right!!" However, due to their confrontation at the basement, DCK realized that actually he was talking to the real culprit and he had never heard HJM's voice. So his mistake was that when he called HJM, he was so prejudiced that he overlooked all the details: hearing no voice at all. All this points out that HJM had already left the house. HJM got aware that DCK had not been corrupted but had been misled/manipulated. I am now curious to know why DCK called HJM and made him say all these things: "people got hurt". Why was he angry? If he was just referring to the missing Jang, he would have mentioned it directly... 

 

I am wondering if YG has not been manipulated in the past hence his memories are so mixed up.

[Anh]

Hi everyone. 

I've been snooping on this thread since forever; I really enjoy the discussions here. I've been following Watcher since the first day the project announced its casting of ahjussi Han Suk Kyu because I'm a massive fan of him. I think I can share some useful info with you all.

 

About the title of the drama, our director Ahn Gil Ho clarified that it's named Watcher because our leads all saw something in the past but things are not as they thought. So they are the watchers. It's that simple. Watcher here doesn't mean someone is inspecting something. So, I think we might over complicate things by all the theories of DC Yeom or someone else is watching them.

 

I saw there are theories of why DCG put KJM's jacket in the washing machine. My theory is a bit different that DCG trusted KJM till the end (as he always emphasizes) and that he was trying to protect KJM. 

So it began like this, KJM lost his jacket somewhere he didn't remember. The culprit wore his jacket to his house, killed his wife and left it at the scene to frame him. YG saw that and thought it was his dad because of the jacket. DCG phoned in and it was the culprit who picked up the phone. DCG came into the house seeing YG's mom was dead. He saw the jacket and knew it was KJM's ( if you watched closely that part, in a slit second DCG kinda startled when he saw something). Since he thought KJM was in the house just minutes ago (because of the phone call) and there was the jacket, he was certain that KJM was the murderer . However, he still tried to help him by hiding the evidence because it's perfectly normal for a piece of clothes of the owner of the house being in the washing machine. Maybe he didn't know there was bloodstain on it. This explained why he repeatedly said that he trusted KJM till the end. KJM was his favourite sunbae after all. Since the incidence once again proved that KJM betrayed his trust, he was left wrecked and since then he wowed to be objective and became an inspector who doesn't believe in emotions ( I'm so soft at his bright smile in the pic of 5. He looked genuinely happy back then and now the smile is gone). Mr Han''s acting in ep8 is mind-blowing.

That being said, I believe DCG is clean. He's all secretive and calculative now because of the trauma in the past, not because he has some dirt to hide.

 

About Ms.Jo. I believe she's innocent but her "boyfriend" is different story. I thought it was weird the first time the "boyfriend" called her in ep2. Same concern as Jaesik as the boyfriend called again in ep 5. Then in ep8 that camera focus on her table with pics is so fishy. I suspect that they want to tell us that there's something more behind the picture ( both straight words and metaphorically) just as when GY revealed that him and his dad were in the pic with his mom. My theory is that the boyfriend had something to do with the incidence of her losing evidence to the a murder case back when she was in the forensic department. The case might or might not relate to this whole mess at the corruption squad but it provided a reason for her to quit and move to her current position. And the boyfriend still continues monitoring things here.  So many times people got killed because YG called her for help. In short, she's not aware that she's manipulated.

 

That's what have to say for now and it's too long already. I'm really enjoying the drama. It's really good and it's my type. Not typical procedural investigation series but more of a psychological thriller. Everything is so subtle and nuanced that requires extra attention.  Plus ahjussi HSK, he's perfect, especially in roles that highlight subtle expressions. 

 

Cheer!

[sheelatpsfm]

2 hours ago, Anh said:

About Ms.Jo. I believe she's innocent but her "boyfriend" is different story. I thought it was weird the first time the "boyfriend" called her in ep2. Same concern as Jaesik as the boyfriend called again in ep 5. Then in ep8 that camera focus on her table with pics is so fishy. I suspect that they want to tell us that there's something more behind the picture ( both straight words and metaphorically) just as when GY revealed that him and his dad were in the pic with his mom. My theory is that the boyfriend had something to do with the incidence of her losing evidence to the a murder case back when she was in the forensic department. The case might or might not relate to this whole mess at the corruption squad but it provided a reason for her to quit and move to her current position. And the boyfriend still continues monitoring things here.  So many times people got killed because YG called her for help. In short, she's not aware that she's manipulated.

 

 

I like your reasoning. I'm not sure about the 'boyfriend' still. No evidence so I would wait and see...

 

Out of the topic, I found this news while snooping around.

https://www.kpopmap.com/s-korean-cosmetic-surgeons-reveal-the-actor-who-has-the-face-that-is-setting-the-trends-for-mens-visuals/ 

[thistle]

9 hours ago, Anh said:

About the title of the drama, our director Ahn Gil Ho clarified that it's named Watcher because our leads all saw something in the past but things are not as they thought. So they are the watchers. It's that simple. Watcher here doesn't mean someone is inspecting something. So, I think we might over complicate things by all the theories of DC Yeom or someone else is watching them.

 

Brilliant!  That really is the simplest answer to the title.    Now I wonder what it is that each of them has seen but have not realized that they have seen.

 

Guilty as charged:  I am very, very good at over-complicating and excessive theorizing.     But it's so much fun!  

 

And I'm glad you're here posting with us. 

[ktcjdrama]

Boyfriend? or "Boyfriend"?

[Kathy]

20 hours ago, disembody said:

oh man. if you're into this line of dramas then yes. there was life on mars which is a procedural (and a british original) then there's save me 1 and 2. save me 2 just ended and i loooved it, probs more than s1 (which is where my icon is from!!), but they're both phenomenal. very very very different in tone and two different ways of manifesting but both about cults...

 

then there's trap which is part of the dramatic cinema series (next up will be hell is other people.) there's a mixed reaction to this and the ending is a bit ridiculous but honestly i loved every minute of it. it's INSANE. very grisly and dark and fun tbh.

 

 .

Thanks much, will definitely look into those you mentioned!

 

If you like whodoneits I would recommend a Chinese drama titled Day & Night.