[Drama 2019] Watcher, 왓쳐

[Ameera Ali]

@thistle I am sad you angry with him 

 

 

 

He can come to me & read for me , I don’t need to trust any police man  he will not be leaving anytime soon if he come  

 

 

 

 

 

[my0t1]

6 hours ago, thistle said:

I was thoroughly put off by his behavior in episode 14.   Contrast his behavior here with the way he treated the little girl who believed that "he was a policeman who could be trusted" in episode 1.  He has changed completely.  And he is no longer worthy of either trust or respect.

 

This is the highlight of his character development. The writer uses this to emphasize how dangerous he’s in right now, he’s on the verge of losing his humanity. I still insist to believe in him, that he’ll snap out of this. I also think DCK and HTJ will do whatever they can to prevent him lose himself. 

 

No matter what, he might have done some damages to the girls already.    At the end, it would be their father JHR who hurt them the most. The elder daughter has already sensed something is off; she’s the ultimate victim. I think she would feel so troubled and may even think it’s her fault (which is so not true) causing her dad to become a killing machine. 

[thistle]

19 minutes ago, Ameera Ali said:

@thistle I am sad you angry with him 

 

I am so disappointed that he would do this.

 

By the way, I Love the Black Books gif!    That was such a funny show.

 

19 minutes ago, my0t1 said:

The writer uses this to emphasize how dangerous he’s in right now, he’s on the verge of losing his humanity.

 

Yes but I cannot excuse this.  YG knows clearly what these girls will suffer but he selfishly uses their innocence anyway.  He has learned nothing.  Now all he is just another tiresome evil cop when he had the potential to be so much more, when he had the opportunity to use his own pain to be more understanding of a child at risk.   

 

If the writer wanted to do character development, she should have shown how strong he could be in the face of temptation.  Instead, the writer made YG weak and abased and cruel.

 

19 minutes ago, my0t1 said:

No matter what, he might have done some damages to the girls already.    At the end, it would be their father JHR who hurt them the most. The elder daughter has already sensed something is off; she’s the ultimate victim. I think she would feel so troubled and may even think it’s her fault (which is so not true) causing his dad to become a killing machine. 

 

Very true.  This is precisely why I think that YG's actions are excessively inexcusable.  Surely he blames himself for his dad going to prison for his mom's murder, so he should know right away what it will mean to the eldest daughter when her father's evil is exposed.

 

I thought that the eldest daughter was particularly pathetic because of how pleased she was that her dad might actually have talked nice about her and shown her picture.  She is very, very vulnerable because she is already hurt.  And her younger sister is also deeply vulnerable because she's still just a baby.....but there is nasty YG sitting there reading Red Riding Hood to her in a rather threatening way.

 

YG's actions made me feel sick.  They cannot be justified, even from the standpoint of character development.  He's supposed to be the male lead here, the hero.  While heroes sometimes fall from grace, this is a deliberate leap off a cliff.

[Ameera Ali]

 

 

what , very muscular people , give me break he so muscular  , for you information there a woman too in the team  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[disembody]

i have to rewatch the last 5 eps bc im so confused at this point. but wow kim hyun joo is doing beautifully. i cried for them in ep 14 

[anony12345]

Personally as a fan of dark and ruthless characters I'm all for this development

 

Honestly don't think they showed enough after his dads death in terms of impact on his character but I feel like the last episode finally showed that. The fact that he wasn't already more unhinged after everything he has been through was odd in itself

 

As in - the guy willingly lives in a house he saw his mom get murdered in and presumably showers in the bathtub his dad got killed in

 

He's not near the level of someone like Lee Byung-hun's character in I Saw the Devil and I still felt sympathy there a bit

[ktcjdrama]

1 hour ago, Ameera Ali said:

what , very muscular people , give me break he so muscular  , for you information there a woman too in the team  

 let me check the Chinese subs when I get home, because I don't remember it being translated as muscular. I think it's more like rough or rowdy? 

[Anh]

HSK once said the script of drama is very realistic but also truthful to the genre and it was the thing that first got him interested in the project, which I agree completely at this stage. It's particularly true when it comes to the characters' psychology.

 

The boy has lost it, he wasn't in his right mind. There was no reasoning to him at that moment, all he wanted was taking revenge on the person who ruined his life. In that context, he would want JHR's daughters to go through the same experience as he did.  We think he needs to show empathy because he's also a victim but no, he is taking it in a rather wrong way. And it's so realistic. I know his action is disturbing but I would have been disappointed if he was written as a selfless, pure hearted character after all he has gone through.

 

1 hour ago, anony12345 said:

Honestly don't think they showed enough after his dads death in terms of impact on his character but I feel like the last episode finally showed that. The fact that he wasn't already more unhinged after everything he has been through was odd in itself

 

And yes, I agree that this a major character development. If you recall the conversation bet him and HTJ's husband about which type of person the latter is, I believe they both suppress their feelings for a long time, and they are very alike. YG even suppressed his memory about that night and when he found out it's JHR, all hell broke loose. So, I personally don't think he's changing, he just finally expresses himself but in a very negative manner, sadly. DCG knows this so well, this is why he kept the truth from him.

 

After watching e14, I can't help thinking the women in JHR's life are so innocent, happy and clueless while their father/husband has been doing all sort of evil things. I can finally make some sense out of all those sweet scenes between JHR and his little daughter from the beginning of the series. Of course it's not their fault that he turned out that way but nothing is without a price.

[ktcjdrama]

1 hour ago, ktcjdrama said:

 let me check the Chinese subs when I get home, because I don't remember it being translated as muscular. I think it's more like rough or rowdy? 

So I checked... and it does translate to rough and coarse man... instead of muscular.

 

And the description by JHR's daughter about YG's eyes are "magical/mysterious" instead of "odd" @thistle I personally think he didn't menace those girls. Being a police, he has to do some questioning to get information and clues related to the investigation he is doing, albeit a very personal one. So I see whatever he did as just that. Getting information.

[sheelatpsfm]

I hope Detective Do will save YG from killing Detective Jang. 

Now we know Detective Jang is the one who killed YG mom but why. Is it because to stop YG dad? Detective Jang started to kill because of his daughter, which I'm sure it is based on what information given by his daughter to YG. 

 

YG is in the revenge mode. Lawyer Han did express her worries that she dont' want YG to become like her. She was in her revenge mode until she realizes that she hurt many people around her for her revenge. 

 

I dont' know what ep15 is going to be like but I hope YG anger will subside. 

[40somethingahjumma]

I'm with @ktcjdrama. It never crossed my mind that YG was menacing the daughters. What I saw was a young man who was on the verge of exploding but barely managing to keep a tight lid on his emotions after discovering the truth. Obviously hanging around JHR's place might seem that he was making a veiled threat and sending a message but I never for a single moment thought he would hurt the wee lass.

 

While I understand why @thistle might be upset about YG's recent actions, I saw it as the vicious cycle of violence coming full circle. JHR's sins had come home to roost. Literally. He started it all. For me the scene in the daughter's bedroom was filled with so much irony. JHR had started all of this to protect family and now the day of reckoning is at his doorstep. His secret has been laid bare to the lad whose parents were killed in the sanctity of their own home in front of their son by JHR. I don't know what JHR was thinking at the time when he caused a boy to witness his mother's murder but I imagine that he did not think things would come back bite him this way.

 

Anyway we've seen YG go ballistic more than once regarding the culprit to his parents' murders. This isn't an especially new development. He did threaten DCG in TJ's office which turned into an all out biffo and he almost killed Turtle Park after he attacked TJ. DCG clearly knew that this was going to happen so he kept mum. He chose to punish JHR his way getting him to "run errands" for him.

 

[Ameera Ali]

@thistle , @ktcjdrama , @triplem & @titania1000 , @bebebisous33 

she may not save her husband thumb but this is a heroic act   she didn’t leave her best friend behind 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[larus]

It was Jang Hae-Ryong after all. The writer did a good job because we all suspected him and then look for others and now we are on square one again. But now we know why Jang Hae Ryong because the thumb killer.

 

I knew that Jang hae ryong is the one who killed Young Goon`s mother the moment Do Chi-Gwang asked him to help catch the bad guys. The look on his face said it all. I knew that Park Jin Woo told Chi Gwang his name. It was good that the writer made a second character find out about Jang Hae Ryoung in another circumstances and that was Young Goon. That brought maximum tension to the story.

I agree that Young Goon is on a verge on doing something bad. I don`t think he will harm Jang`s daughter at all but he doesn`t think properly right now, his emotions of anger are overwelming. Just like Jang Hae Ryoung might have felt long time ago. He wants his mother killer to suffer.  It is good that Do Chi-Gwang or Han Tae Joo will come to the scene and help Young Goon cooling his head a little to think rationally for a moment. Killing Jang is not a solution.

 

Do Chi-Gwang is one scary guy. I "enjoyed" watching him torturing Park Jin-Woo but in the same time I was scared that he will cross the line for ever. I was relieved when I saw paramedics taking Park Jin Woo and I laughed when Chi Gwang wished him to get better. What a cynical man.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ameera Ali]

 

 

@Lawyerh after weeks of training , he done it  

 

 

 

[larus]

19 hours ago, Ameera Ali said:

she may not save her husband thumb but this is a heroic act   she didn’t leave her best friend behind 

 

I thought she had a secret room or something. Hiding under the desk is the only option for unprepared people like us.

 

What I liked about that scene, is that she turned the phone sound off. In many movies, the phone rings exactly when the bad guy is aproaching the victim.

[Prettysup]

Wrap up party today

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[disembody]

i've started rewatching and i'm on ep 7. i even went back in the forum and i cannot find answers nor have i gotten exact clues from my rewatch. the show is so visually stunning and it's well acted. i do think that a lot of the writing is decent but the major flaw is how convoluted and unexplained it is. on one hand, they were trying to "trick" the viewer but many of us knew it had to be simpler and it is. 

 

that being said: 

• why were they investigating jang? why did jang disappear?
• what happened between jang and kjm? why did kjm's wife have to die?

so far the answer that i have gotten out of what i know and my rewatch (and you have to basically pay CLOSE attention to every scene and this is where subs are so imperative because sometimes they speak in mazes oh my god!) jang was...being investigated for corruption by kjm? and kjm had his own corruption accusations? but over what, drugs? like if i go off of being on ep 7, jang is confirmed dead and YG gets really mad at his dad and runs back to their apartment to yell at him that he knew jang. like wtf no duh? isnt that the point?!?!?! why was he so mad at that time? omg

 

then there's that phone call they both missed (i mean idk how this happened but it's clear that everyone is competent but the writers just forget things. i don't really get how they couldn't figure out the assassin is more than one person with so many different  body types.) turtle--he kills on order, correct? so what the hell does that have to do with escalating violence with the bodies, no two people are the same lmao

 

what are all the different gangs....is there one leader? like??? i think ill get more answer about the ganggs as i rewatch but everything is still so vague.

 

i guess dck planted evidence because he didn't think kjm would be punished. fair enough, this i understand, but how did this all unravel in the first place. im sure i have more questions that are pretty pressing but what is the end goal? like alright the basis is drugs, money laundering, gangs, killing "criminals" to save oneself basically but it's so fragmented. there's alos conversations i just straight up cannot decipher. when yg goes to pick up his dad after he gets out of jail (did he get on parole because he "admitted"? whatever i dont want to even think further) he asks, "were you really investigating corrupt cops?" and kjm says (after looking at DCP in the car) "no, it was all a lie"

 

from what we know this conversation makes little sense. ill explain: he's in jail for murdering his mom, he was being investigated for corruption, he "was investigating" jang which somehow came to bite him in the richard simmons. was YG asking his dad this because of the ledger? or what is the broader question? then at the end of this ep (this is ep 7) he finds out about jang being the victim (with thumb intact since they only thumb cut not murder for cops) and RUNS home to yell at his dad??!? 

 

i have quite a bit of criticism but all that aside i think the reason i, personally, keep coming back is because it's stunning and well portrayed. there's very many frustrating bits and pacing that i just simply do not agree with but while i struggle with the logistics of it all i never once misunderstood people's feelings. they're all pretty expressive and emotional characters they just display it in different ways. i think that's what makes it so watchable. 

 

i'm really sad designated survivor ended so i'm taking forever to finish it and i'm gonna be upset this one ends too but i will eagerly await to finish the end. kim hyun joo wow what a beauty!!!!!!!!! i honestly can't wait for the end because i think this show is MUCH better as a binge-watch. which is why rewatching it is so satisfying.

 

this is def a show where i am going to be conflicted about what i think of it. it's so flawed and yet i want to knooooow

[40somethingahjumma]

9 hours ago, disembody said:

i've started rewatching and i'm on ep 7. i even went back in the forum and i cannot find answers nor have i gotten exact clues from my rewatch. the show is so visually stunning and it's well acted. i do think that a lot of the writing is decent but the major flaw is how convoluted and unexplained it is. on one hand, they were trying to "trick" the viewer but many of us knew it had to be simpler and it is. 

 

 

 

 

Several pages back I mentioned that I had a similar problem with this show. I like the way it's shot and it's undoubtedly well acted but as a police procedural it feels unnecessarily convoluted. Or convoluted in a way that feels like gimmickry. My own suspicion is that the cases of the week don't always mesh as well with the overall arc compared to other OCN procedurals that I've enjoyed. Or at the very least in the attempt to postpone the identity of mum's killer, the show became "I Don't Remember You".

 

And I agree, on hindsight, it is probably best marathoned. The names of all the characters... dead, alive, thumbless and re-thumbed are hard to keep up with. For instance, how many Parks have there been? First there was the corrupt prosecutor who got the chop early on. Then there's the ex-detective turned corporate fixer who's in detention, then of course Turtle 3. 

 

On top of that The Three Turtles kept the hand surgeon in business. Maybe Turtle was getting financial kickbacks from the hospital on top of all the nasty stuff he was doing. Who knows... At this point, I imagine anything's possible.

[Ameera Ali]

I can’t wait for last week 

 

 

 

[thistle]