[Drama 2019] Watcher, 왓쳐

[Ameera Ali]

 

@titania1000 @Lawyerh , @triplem & @ktcjdrama @thistle these two like to say hi to each other by holding each other neck 

 

 

 

 

 

[thistle]

1 hour ago, Ameera Ali said:

these two like to say hi to each other by holding each other neck 

 

They're dancing!  

[disembody]

9 hours ago, titania1000 said:

and i really enjoyed the return of those bonds!

• Be it the very  comfortable (almost intimate) atmosphere between DCK and HTJ at the beginning of the episode when they were sitting in the team office, and she admitted still having nightmares about her attack.
• the very concerned reactions of all the team when KYG was hurt: DCK checking his neck and sending JSY to nurse him, HTJ staring at KYG's face few long seconds with worry and relief, JSY putting a band aid on his wound. 
• HTJ  trying to get his approval in her dicussion with DCK about the path to pick for the investigation, and KYG refusing to choose between them because he feels loyal to both .
• KYG and JSY's cuteness when they thought that DCK wasn't aware of her spying.
• KYG trying to cover JSY's "betrayal" to protect her. 
• JSY's admitting that she gave  DCK her password while knowing he would have access to the vids she took "secretly",
• DCK ignoring JSY's apology and continuing to trust her completely and treat her like a full member of the team like he's been doing all this time.
• DCK refusing to blame HTJ when she blowed up his plan once again because he knows how much she suffers for not being able to move on with her life.
• KYG opening his heart to DCK about his fear that his father's field was cleaned to hide something. 

 

I love to see DCK and KYG trusting each other and having each other back  when they go in the crime scenes. Their great team communication in the massage parlor was a treat!  

However i can feel that no matter how much KYG wants to trust entirely DCK (and he really wants it) he's very much troubled by the fact that he manipulated evidences in his mother's murder case. DCK is incapable to respect the law even though he's doing the right thing and it's weighing on KYG. I hope now that DCK learnt to stop being secretive, he could learn too to be respectful of the procedures. He needs to live up to his words about not crossing the limits and to become a true model for KYG and the rest of the police force to make up for his past..   

    

agreee with the fam bonding. they're all very emotionally fragmented people who don't really have the best ways of dealing but even through that they have this respect for each other. they're very forgiving. this is prrobably why they let HTJ do a lot of things, or it's easy for them to let her go, but at the same time you're just disappointed.

 

i think that seeps into all their relationships. they're not trusting but KYG, DCK, HTJ, even SY value the truth over pretend. so it's a lot on SY's back to lie. she had to stop, but being found out was good for her. they all want to know what's going on. another ex would be HTJ straight up lying then explaining after and demanding the truth. it's interesting, hypocrtical, but that's what makes them work and helps them keep going.

 

gotta be honest for ep 11 i was so annoyed lmao but now i just think the show is frustrating and a little dumb but it's so so so intriguing and it is SO beautiful and well acted, so i have to watch it! 

 

will have to see in a rewatch what holds up. it's a frustrating show but i look forward to the frustration and marveling at how pretty it is and how i wish things were clearer but the atmosphere is great...

 

@ktcjdrama in english it has been "giants club" (tho they call it something else too) so jang society was confusing me. i guess it just means a place for the big bosses...

 

oh yea and i think turtle has to be multiple ppl atp. like contract killers cos the first dude was one before he died. it could also be like a generational thing (i.e. one for one period of time) which  might explain the chaotic methods. cos i don't really understand how the violence gets worse but they stick to one person. it's creepy too

 

but also, unless they are totally crazy which i don't think the writers are, the turtle in that ep was deeeffff a woman / female presenting frame. that's why i was like IS THIS SY?!?!? bc they have the exact same frame. guess it's another tiny person!

 

starting ep  12 x__x

[Ameera Ali]

 

 

Did you need to ask that , of course the turtle is a fan , he want to meet the man who keep losing  people effortlessly 

 

 

 

 

[thistle]

27 minutes ago, disembody said:

but also, unless they are totally crazy which i don't think the writers are, the turtle in that ep was deeeffff a woman / female presenting frame. that's why i was like IS THIS SY?!?!? bc they have the exact same frame. guess it's another tiny person!

 

I've just had a thought:  what if the Turtle that tried to kill YG wasn't THE Turtle?  What if it was someone faking?  This is possible.....except for that  tool that Turtle was gonna use for cutting YG's thumbs because it had old blood on it.  But it is really very weird that Turtle would leave the tool behind unless there was something to be gained by doing so.  

 

If Yeom was the YG Turtle, then is it possible that she somehow faked the blood evidence?  There seem to be a lot more layers to her than we might realize and I really don't trust her at all.

 

By the way, that tool is what gardeners use for cutting small tree limbs (although I'm sure you all probably already know that), and I find that very creepy.

 

I don't know.  I was just thinking odd theories while I was kneading piles and piles of bread dough.  

[my0t1]

Watcher has broken its previous high ratings record with national ratings of 6.094% and ratings in Seoul as 6.567% for Episode 12.

 

[Guest]

I speak for myself because I’m likely the minority 

Spoiler

who found that hug strange & a tad out of place if romance was its intention.  I kept thinking she saw him when he was in his pyjamas at 10 , she was a full grown lady in her 20s . And now they will date ? Yikes , felt way too “cougar-ish“ So the idea of a love line here would kill the drama for me . I always view DCK & HTJ in their own strange way became YG ‘s guardians since he lost his parents, somewhat looking out for him from afar.  They are also in a way  trying to make up to him for wrongly putting his Father to jail . Though in TJ’s case it’s still her own revenge that’s priority 

 

[ktcjdrama]

6 minutes ago, triplem said:

I speak for myself because I’m likely the minority 

  Hide contents

who found that hug strange & a tad out of place if romance was its intention.  I kept thinking she saw him when he was in his pyjamas at 10 , she was a full grown lady in her 20s . And now they will date ? Yikes , felt way too “cougar-ish“ So the idea of a love line here would kill the drama for me . I always view DCK & HTJ in their own strange way became YG ‘s guardians since he lost his parents, somewhat looking out for him from afar.  They are also in a way  trying to make up to him for wrongly putting his Father to jail . Though in TJ’s case it’s still her own revenge that’s priority 

 

I am with you on this...

[thistle]

9 minutes ago, triplem said:

I speak for myself because I’m likely the minority 

 

I'm there, too.  I thought it was rather odd during the first couple of episodes because

Spoiler

they seemed really kindly flirty and attracted.  But then it fell off and I thought that was a good thing.  Haven't seen the hug yet except for some stills, and I thought it seemed rather awkwardly uncomfortable.  I don't have an issue with the age thing but, as you said, it's the prior relationship that makes it icky.

 

[disembody]

def don't like the age gap but honestly it was pretty familial. i think they're all just more comfortable lmao idk i didn't see anything rly with it. besides the age thing she did know him when he was super young, there's the other dude in her life, and they were literally looking at 

Spoiler

their murderer lol. there's also the fact that this was the day she took off the ring. and then i guess her husband?!??! still alive? anyways

they're pretty similar.

 

tbh idk what went on this episode but i've given up lmao...one silly thing

Spoiler

the current turtle is so cute lmaofpisohuafji

 

[my0t1]

48 minutes ago, triplem said:

who found that hug strange & a tad out of place if romance was its intention.  I kept thinking she saw him when he was in his pyjamas at 10 , she was a full grown lady in her 20s . And now they will date ? Yikes , felt way too “cougar-ish“ So the idea of a love line here would kill the drama for me . I always view DCK & HTJ in their own strange way became YG ‘s guardians since he lost his parents, somewhat looking out for him from afar.  They are also in a way  trying to make up to him for wrongly putting his Father to jail . Though in TJ’s case it’s still her own revenge that’s priority 

 

I'm on your team for this one ... that Tae Joo and Young Geun share no romance. 

 

But I don't find the hug strange. Instead I found it sweet that Young Geun hugged Tae Joo.  Nothing romantic here.  Purely familial.  The way he hugged her is like a son hugging his mother, so delicately and protectively.  Tae Joo might be the closest mother figure Young Geun has (although she's a little too young to be his mother).  As for Tae Joo, I think she still sees him as the 10-year old kid who she failed miserably to protect him.  The look she gazes at Young Geun is always a mixture of compassion, guilt, and caring.  She's been always honest with him; at least she gives me an impression that Young Geun is the only person she feels comfortable to open herself up to.  It is only this recent episode that we see Tae Joo finally opens up to Chi Gwang. 

[thistle]

On the subject of that hug:  I've watched the episode, and I did not like the embrace.  It seemed false and, as I had guessed, uncomfortable.  But I think that this is because they were both lying.  I don't think they were being real or understanding with one another--there was just a "look" about each of them that said there was falsehood there.

 

An interesting thing about hugs:  you're never really facing the person you hug; instead, you're looking over their shoulder.  So basically both of them were hiding their true feelings by looking away and hugging makes that easy to do.

 

Actually I think that the person Lawyer Han is most comfortable and honest with is Jae Sik, even though she was really cold about leaving him to deal with his arrest alone.  When she was collapsed on the floor in her office, it was Jae Sik she admitted her feelings to.  I don't think she would have done that with anyone else or that she would have trusted anyone but him to do her dirty work and to keep the blood sample a secret.

 

Everyone on this show (except Our Bodyguard, of course) is a mysterious mess and cannot be trusted.

 

 

[my0t1]

28 minutes ago, thistle said:

Actually I think that the person Lawyer Han is most comfortable and honest with is Jae Sik, even though she was really cold about leaving him to deal with his arrest alone.  When she was collapsed on the floor in her office, it was Jae Sik she admitted her feelings to.  I don't think she would have done that with anyone else or that she would have trusted anyone but him to do her dirty work and to keep the blood sample a secret.

 

Ah, yes, how I can forget about our bodyguard Jae Sik?!  Very good point, Tae Joo does show her true self to Jae Sik. 

 

30 minutes ago, thistle said:

On the subject of that hug:  I've watched the episode, and I did not like the embrace.  It seemed false and, as I had guessed, uncomfortable.  But I think that this is because they were both lying.  I don't think they were being real or understanding with one another--there was just a "look" about each of them that said there was falsehood there.

 

I need to do some re-watch on the hug scene with subtitles.  haha

[thistle]

5 minutes ago, my0t1 said:

I need to do some re-watch on the hug scene with subtitles.  haha

Well, my opinion could be faulty because I could just be overly suspicious since this drama hasn't exactly inspired me to trust any of the characters except, of course, Jae Sik. 

 

If Jae Sik turns bad, then there is absolutely no hope for humanity.  

[Kathy]

I found nothing wrong at all with the hug, honestly surprised at the attention it is getting.

 

Isn't it completely normal that the two people who have been searching for the killer for such personal reasons and then find out that the one they finally caught can't be the same 'turtle' who was part of their 'stories'?

 

They share something that no one else does and that is the experiences they went through separately but were related to the same circumstance of corruption.  It seemed like a simple hug that said I know how you feel.  And it was probably something lawyer Han really needed at the time.  It just shows what a great kid Young Goon is and to me had absolutely nothing romantic about it.  Just one human being comforting another.

[40somethingahjumma]

Even though I haven't posted much in here, I've been keeping up with the episodes because well... I can seldom resist a whodunit from OCN. There are things to like about this show (which is why I'm still watching) but for a while there I really wasn't especially enthused about the blame game that was going on. Memories are notoriously unreliable to be sure and for a child to have to grow up orphaned because of what other adults did is terrible. Maybe I was biased because as the show progressed I grew to really like HSK's Do Chi Gwang a lot. I wasn't sure about him at first but I've come to appreciate and love that laid-back facade which essentially masks a shrewd operator. 

 

Until recently I was inclined to give Han Tae Joo a bit of a benefit of the doubt as she was a victim of a rather heinous crime. It's understandable to not only catch the culprit is but be driven by a single-minded mission to get it done. There's no doubting her wit and savvy. But the recklessness by which she gets the job done bothered me especially when she started casting aspersions on DCG based on the minutest of evidence. I don't have a problem with suspicion but then to mess around with Kim Young Goon's head on the basis of all that made me largely frustrated.

 

It's obvious that until the last episode, the team hasn't been much of a team for a while. They all came together seemingly with similar goals. But the reality is that when a group of disparate individuals are put together with various agendas and investigative styles, conflict is bound to rear its ugly head. It's not all bad... conflict has its place if deployed properly. Learning how to resolve conflict in a constructive way can lead to more useful ideas or threads to be pursued. However, trust is the glue and while they functioned as a team, they weren't one in mind.

 

The position of "Turtle" while not hereditary, is based on a succession model. That's an interesting development. He's the Jang Society's executioner. And the Jang Society is like a star chamber within the police force that acts as judge and jury. A self-appointed vigilante group. This reminds me of the second in the Dirty Harry franchise... Magnum Force. (Yeah, yeah... showing my age and the influence of my father here)

 

Sigh... evidently even after Episode 12, DCG isn't in the clear judging from the previews. Sigh... I don't want him to be Turtle the First and I have my doubts regarding that because he operates with a very different MO. His tendency is to set up traps and/or plant evidence. He tends to use his smarts to get things done rather than violence. He reads people generally very effectively. However an interesting development indeed with the arrival of HTJ's ex. I knew he had survived but thought he had been locked up in some psychiatric facility languishing away from trauma. I had no expectation that he would return.

 

Another person I find fascinating is the Commissioner. She gave the impression in the early days that she was merely an overambitious bureaucrat who is more interested in propping her self-image. Lately though, I get the impression that while she's a political animal, she does seem to care about corruption and vigilantes in the force.

 

Anyway, the show gets better with each new week. Hope it all ends well for the team and that my faith in DCG proves to be warranted.

[pyeongsaeng]

5 hours ago, triplem said:

who found that hug strange & a tad out of place if romance was its intention.  I kept thinking she saw him when he was in his pyjamas at 10 , she was a full grown lady in her 20s . And now they will date ? Yikes , felt way too “cougar-ish“ So the idea of a love line here would kill the drama for me . I always view DCK & HTJ in their own strange way became YG ‘s guardians since he lost his parents, somewhat looking out for him from afar.  They are also in a way  trying to make up to him for wrongly putting his Father to jail . Though in TJ’s case it’s still her own revenge that’s priority 

 

hmm i don't find it strange. romance never crossed my mind and dating, even further off haha. it just felt they were both sharing that common burden between them and younggoon knew that too, it felt more like an expression of empathy. besides, it didn't really feel like a hug too. he just sort of put one hand on her back, his other hand was just by his side. kind of like a pat on the back? hahaha. he clearly knows their boundaries. it seems he initiated it only because of the emotionally heavy event (for both of them) of finding 'Turtle' (well, at least one turtle).

 

1 hour ago, Kathy said:

I found nothing wrong at all with the hug, honestly surprised at the attention it is getting.

 

Isn't it completely normal that the two people who have been searching for the killer for such personal reasons and then find out that the one they finally caught can't be the same 'turtle' who was part of their 'stories'?

 

They share something that no one else does and that is the experiences they went through separately but were related to the same circumstance of corruption.  It seemed like a simple hug that said I know how you feel.  And it was probably something lawyer Han really needed at the time.  It just shows what a great kid Young Goon is and to me had absolutely nothing romantic about it.  Just one human being comforting another.

 

agree with this! a simple hug that said i know how you feel. not all hugs involve romance.

 

on how it looked uncomfortable - i remember in the earlier eps it was mentioned taejoo fears getting touched by others. the scene where she frantically washed her hands, imagining blood on it, after shaking hands with chi-kwang too. it wasn't really apparent later on tbh, but if it still holds true, the fact she didn't resist this 'hug' does speak volumes about how much she trusts younggoon. and that's all there is to it - trust (in the common experiences/traumas they've had) and nothing else. maybe a substantial amount of guilt on her part towards him too.

 

6 hours ago, thistle said:

 

I'm there, too.  I thought it was rather odd during the first couple of episodes because

  Hide contents

they seemed really kindly flirty and attracted.  But then it fell off and I thought that was a good thing.  Haven't seen the hug yet except for some stills, and I thought it seemed rather awkwardly uncomfortable.  I don't have an issue with the age thing but, as you said, it's the prior relationship that makes it icky.

 

 

'flirty' seems quite extreme here. it seems to suggest they've been behaving to each other in a playful/sexually attracted way....which i don't think that's what we've seen so far. at the very most they've exchanged looks of understanding and concern for each other, perhaps more than usual because they can empathise with what each of them is going through/has gone through.

[Guest]

This is how I feel right now after eps 12 with subs.  

Spoiler

Feels  like we are  further from finding out the truth then we were before,  and I wonder if at the end they will actually be able to expose  Jang Society much less bring them down. Something DC Park said before his arrest bugged me. He said theoretically if such an organisation exists , the higher ups would have never allowed it . They could not possibly lose all the cream of the crop. Then he said if they did , they all moved independently and that they would only know their own nominees. This means  it is very hard to trace how high up or extensive this network is . He also gave a very cryptic answer when YG  asked him about Jang Society.  He mentioned how one case is used to cover up another and that is how it works between public officials. And soon these cases get buried as so much happens in the country and I suppose people forget. So this reinforces the ongoing "turf war" between  factions within the police and  the prosecution. In fact Yeom was rather happy with the capture of DC Park and she said it was a trade off for the death of DA Min.

 

Also Yeom at the beginning of the eps gave a rather vague answer  when asked if she knew about Jang Soc . She seemed rather unperturbed and said be it the army or prosecution , there are private groups ( Sharing Society, Unified Society etc) and that Jang is just one of them. Rumours are rife that these secret groups appoint one person in each rank. When DCK asked at the end if they should catch Jang Society , she says if it exists, of course... so why give such ambiguous answers here?  Are these groups so covert in their operations that even someone as high up as she is  cannot know for sure? Or she is part of them, hence 'led' the team to catch DC Park whom I think now may not actually be part of the Jang group but is definitely corrupted ?( I was not too happy that DCK fabricated evidence to catch DC Park . This seems to be his MO and would he again regret this the way he was sorry about YG's dad?)

 

And then now , there's TJ husband...is he a part of a different faction ? We know he isn't a cop , so not a Jang member...but there are other private groups right?   So I am back to knowing much more but knowing nothing. The only thing I can be certain of is that there are at least two Turtles and that Jae Sik is showing great progress in his English skills . Loved how he used an English word to describe the weapon . 

 

 

[larus]

So I was wrong after all! Turtle was not a woman. He was young and Tae Joo realised that he was not the one who cut her thumb. Maybe he the recent killer of Jang Society but there were others before him.

 

I hope Tae Joo can give up at her need to catch herself the killer. It was a stupid thing to do. If the killer was a  little more careful ( how convenient he was not!!) , he would not have any problem to take her down easily.

I was not comformtable to see Do Chi-Gwang planting evidence the second time because he thought he is doing the right thing. I do think that Park Jin-Woo was corupt but I wish they would have caught him on the act/ or with strong evidence.

 

Another thing... WOW! The prosecutors had a way to steal the drugs and then they use a distribution network. 

I am still have Yeom Dong-Sook on the top of my suspect list.

Let see who else will be the next to fall.

 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

Is romance on the cards? (Surprised by reactions to the hug when I started back reading) It never occurred to me that the hug was anything more than an act of human kindness or empathy. Maybe I need to watch the sequence again to be absolutely certain I haven't missed anything . It isn't the age gap so much the issue as the sort of dysfunctional familial dynamic that they've been aiming for in the show. If the show is trying to set up both HTJ and YG in some kind of noona romance then they're doing a lousy job of it... it's come out of absolutely nowhere. TJ seems to me more likely to be paired up with DCG. Not that I think there's any kind of romance in the air between those two. In some ways they complement each other and he understands her better than anyone else. But I never once thought that we'd get romance in this drama on any level.

 

Besides, YG gave her the hug because he thought she was leaving the team. Seems more like a goodbye and thanks for the fish gesture. I think they both need some closure in their lives but darn it... the show just refuses to keep things simple. It's one hurdle after another.

 

The last two episodes were the best yet IMO.