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Haven't had access to subs yet

2 hours ago, Latte_Anyday said:

 What you think doesn't matter... / Divorce is not an option... / Who would marry into a family with a divorcee??:rolleyes:

 

I thought this knowing the world of Korean dramas, if not Korea itself.  I figured her sister's divorce will taint JI so that he is less desirable and "damaged" enough to be on JH's level. :joy::joy::rage::rage:

 

 

1 hour ago, bebebisous33 said:

GS's father seems more decent than LTH because he sent the pictures to his son so that he could make a decision: giving up JI. Furthermore, he is much more respectful than LTH in the end.  

 

I

 

I hope, the bomb explodes next week: LSI has filed for divorce and ASSAULT!! And this will ruin everything for GS. He will never be able to marry JI with such a scandal.

 

I think it is interesting that GS's father included sad lonely picture of GS.  Unfortunately I think those pictures of himself with make him feel that he must win so that his father don't see him as a loser.

 

Just saw the subs

 

As always a lovely episode.  There were so many things I want to but won't.

 

As I was watching JI+JH last conversation together in the episode I realise that what made their relationship magical in the quiet way it is, is not because they love each other, in drama the couples love each other.  What make the special is the mutual respect they have for each other.  They love each other's spirit.  The fact that their love comes sexual attraction make it even better.

 

Jae-In and JI are such thug talkers.

 

Jae-In scenes with Mr. Almost Civil Servant was delightful.

 

I've been thinking that either Jae-In or their Mom needed to move in with Seo-In.  I'm glad mom agreed with me.

 

The way Seo-In reacts to SH , and the fact that every time he see her he seems to present a physical threat makes me think that his hitting her is not a one time thing yet all the dialogue is treating it like it is.

 

I think Mr. Kwon respects JI's honesty.  I think they have honesty in common.

I like that Kwon showed JI respect by not only accepting the tea she brought, but only having it brewed immediately.

 

JI showed exactly who she was. "My parent opinion do matter, but what I want should come first in my private life"

 

Mr. Kwon had already told GS what he told JI at their meeting.  If her relationship with JH is not serious, GS should overlook it and never bring it up, and he told JI he wouldn't hold it against her.  I suspect Kwon see romantic love like crushes, fun but transient.  He think that there are other important qualities to build a family on--like the quality of the person. 

 

I notice that when she has to deal with her father, GS, or GS's father, JI looks worn down.  JH puts a spring in her step.

 

I think Mr. Kwon was skipping down the stairs after his meeting with LTH because he had manipulated LTH into doing his bidding; pressure JI to marry GS. This was his hands will be clean.

 

This was similar to what LTH and GS were trying to do last episode. Neither wanted to take responsibility for setting a wedding date and pissing JI off.  Mr. Kwon is just better at that type of manipulation.

 

The joy on JH's mother's face when she saw her son truly happy was heartwarming.

 

The shot of JH and JI back as they walked down the lane made is easy to see them 25 years in the future.

 

JH's line.  "i'll give up then." "On you."  was devastatingly delivered.

 

Yeah, I shouldn't, but I feel sorry for GS because he is so ill equipped for the war he's started.  GS is ill equipped because he himself brings nothing to the fight.  He is depending on his status and society to do the fighting for him.  Against some opponents it might work, but not against JH and JI. People often mistake kindness for weakness.  He has really underestimated JH and JI.  They are not people you want to go to war with.

 

I's like to spend more time with the Young-/Jae/-In couple.

 

JH fail at a suave attempt at kissing across the table was endearing.

 

I love the visual story telling in this so very much.

 

The three empty beer can and 2 empty bags of chips.  The bag on the chair, the sweater/jacket on the couch were wonderful indication of time passing so we know things unfolded but nothing was rushed.

 

The shot of the cityscape through JI's bedroom window was beautiful.

 

I love how much goodness and humanity is in the characters in this drama.

 

To me SH and LTH are the villains.  GS is too sad and clueless to reach status of villain.

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Whether MVP Mom just stays at SI's place or files for divorce, I think LTH's world will fall apart.  He is really a big old baby.  "You don't know what you've got til it's gone."  I don't care if he actually changes or doesn't, but I want Lee sisters and Mom to band together and take care of each other.  I want MVP Mom to stick to her guns and not go back home.  I'm not sure how financially independent they actually are, but Jae In implied her father could kick JI out of her apartment.  Jae In needs to get a job anyway.  AND, SI sold her apartment, so that can't be a permanent living arrangement.  

Another thought; SI was separated when we met her.  You usually find out you are pregnant around 6 to 8 weeks.  The pregnancy was probably a result of a spousal rape/fight.  It may have happened right before they separated or even after he moved out because we saw him get in the apartment and break a picture frame and then later she was crouched on the floor with him tearing up the apartment.  I also think the abuse was not a one time thing or the result of one night of drinking.  He is abusive every time we see them together.  When she threatened to kill him if he got involved in JI's situation, he laughed and said, "You're getting me excited," maybe referring to violent sex in the past.  I believe he is capable of killing her and I think she thinks so too.

 

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1 hour ago, hushhh said:

I's like to spend more time with the Young-/Jae/-In couple.

Agreed! They need a spin off.

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JUST WATCH LAST NIGHT EPISODE WITH SUBS. 

 

I figured JI's Mom will have a divorce mind in the head as soon as her husband did another heartless decision.:joy:

However I'm not sure she will do it anyway, I assume she just use the divorce thing to threaten her husband from acting reckless to their daughters lives. And by seeing the preview, I'm pretty sure it was GS who will send the pictures that his father gave him. And JI's mom, though seeing the pictures of JH is a new thing to her, but I assume she already got a hunch as JI already warn her about the fact of JH that probably will disappoint her expectation. So, I'm pretty sure JI's mom again...will stand by her side as she already said to her before. THEN, IT'S YOUR LOSS GS! AND YOU TOO JI'S DAD (embrace and cherish what you already have, you might lose it for good)!:blush:

 

And as for GS' dad, by seeing tonight episode, I assume he just want to let both of them, in which GS and JI, to resolve their own issue. He briefly said to JI's dad to let them be, and his smile after meeting JI's dad just basically show how he enjoy the mind trick he put to JI's dad and how he enjoy to let GS and JI play their game. He literally just enjoy the show:sweat_smile:. so i'm saying his weak side only that, which is being an audience . He just firmly stick to his position as a father who wants the best for his kid . That's why he put words like tonight episode on JI, just to make sure she didn't make bad choice and here I can see he act as a parent who wants the best for his son, and take into consideration of his son wishes (HE'S NOT SO BAD AS A FATHER, probably he doesn't want to lose another son anymore). Just like JH's mom who firmly say no to JI when she knows the fact that she's never married, she just want his son not to go through the heartbreaking moment again. But, after she saw that his son happy, she just let him be, and respect it.

 

To me:

The cool dad: JH's dad

The cool mom: JI's mom:wub:

The cool sister: Jae In (though could a lil bit reckless, but overall she mostly hit it when advices her sistersB))

The cool friend: Young jae (always considerate to his friends, sacrifice his own happiness :D)

The cool kid on the block: EUN NU

 

 

 

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And this pic makes my day:wub: It's not pot and pans hahaha. Something definitely happened. The smile on Ji ho's face says it all lol. I can't count the number of times i have watched the preview lol

 

 

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We are all in cloud 9... :heart:

 

D-G9C2jUIAARei7.jpg

 

These gifs will help me get through until next Wednesday... another waiting week ahead.

 

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1561675965+%25281%2529.gif

 

 

1561679616.gif

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Credit to @Pmyonly. I really love this quote from the book:wub:

 

When we fall in love,must we get into knowing whether it will be fruitful or not?

Can we approach love in that manner?

We mustn't.

We can't be calculating in any aspect 

Because after all we love who we love

When one falls in love,it's just happens.Thats all there is to it.

Hence let's not wallow in despair, restrain our feeling or another the light 

And simply say -"Thanku god I am in love :heart:

 

Many are complaining that the scene is dark. Let's have a brighter one lol. This will get me through the week. Preview is awesome too:wub:

Loving this drama to bits. JI and JH gives me the vibes of just looking at each other, fire sparks lol. As if they want to grab each if there's a chance lol.

 

 

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Naturally, SH's excuse is a lie. We were shown from the start that she was often beaten because she added new pictures in that folder the last time she opened the safe. So each time, she was beaten, she collected evidence. The mother saw the number of pictures that were taken: there were so many hence she asked her when it started. I believe that she didn't start collecting evidence right away but at some point when she realized that she hated her husband and she could no longer accept it. 

 

Yes, GS's father could have manipulated LTH with his words, when he asked him not to meddle between JI and GS. However, he is intelligent enough to know what kind of person JI is. Unlike his son, she is not afraid of him and doesn't seek his approval. The father believes that GS loves JI hence he sent the pictures to his son because he wanted him to make the decision. Since JI never confirmed that she was seeing someone else, he thought that JI might not be serious with JH, especially when he saw that JH had a child. That's why he said that feelings can change. Yet he is not aware of the reason why she remained quiet when she was asked (Are you seeing someone else?). To me, she did it to protect JH... she didn't want him to be stigmatized as the one who seduced a girlfriend.

 

About LTH: I am wondering if he is using his daughters for his own interests because he was disappointed to only have three daughters and no son at all. I am inclined to think that deep down he wanted sons.

  • First Jae In said that she was invisible to her father. The word "invisible" caught my attention, since it points out his lack in interest for her. Notice that he is not asking for her right now. He doesn't really pay attention to her at all and he is even not asking what she wants to do in the future. Striking is that he even sent Jae In abroad for studies. Jae In is the last child so in my opinion, he could no longer hide his disappointment. We shouldn't forget that he even mentioned to SH that once Jae In returns from France, she will get married away. With his words, he outlined that he didn't really miss her. As conclusion, JI's words about herself were correct: to her father, she is invisible. This explains why JI is acting like that: her rebellious side, her jealousy when she sees JI and LSI hugging each other and her obsession with love. She doesn't feel loved and recognized by her father hence she is seeking for love in her sisters and her boyfriends.
  • Now, if we take a closer look about the marriage candidates. Notice that he chooses the partners for his daughters for himself. He likes SH, then LSI has to marry him. He likes GS, then JI has to become his wife. So he chooses his sons-in-law as a way to cope that he only had daughters. What caught my attention is that SH is not asking for help from his own family, he is always seeking his parents-in-law's approval... I have always thought in Korean's mentality that once a daughter marries, she enters the husband's family and has more connection to the husband's family than her own. However, it is different here, quite the opposite. SH has more interactions with LTH than with his family. She was briefly mentioned in the episode 1 and 2: a brother and a brother-in-law are both directors of hospital. So SH comes from a higher social class, yet he has never sought the help from his family, since he took a huge amount of loans. In other words, he keeps his distance from his own family.

SH said that if she files for divorce, people will think that she married him for his money and social status. So her good image will get tarnished. His words illustrate his delusion as he is forgetting that he has a huge amount of debts. Once it is revealed that LSI was the breadwinner and not the other way around, her good reputation won't be tarnished. On the other end, the opposite will happen. Imagine: the huge amount of debts, the domestic abuse and the charges against SH for assault will ruin SH's good reputation forever. He can give up on opening a bigger clinic. SH is not only delusional but also stupid. Even LSI can predict his thoughts: she knew that he would use the pregnancy to stop the divorce. He doesn't want to divorce her because without her, he wouldn't be able to keep his clinic and his job at the television.  

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13 hours ago, bebebisous33 said:

I believe that JI's biggest mistake is to keep calling GS "oppa". Actually, she should call him by his name in order to outline that they are over. 

 

I have not seen the scene yet where JI takes the ring from GS but I can somehow understand why JI took it. As long as the ring is not on her finger... Don't forget that she is walking on a thin line between her father, GS and GS's father. If she had thrown it away, her father would have blamed her and put her more under pressure. He would have reproached her that she was jeopardizing his future position. Right now, JI is trying to lower the pressure coming from her father. She is still showing some respect, although she had put her boundaries.

 

I don't know why but somehow, I wished, JI's father would be really punished for his greed and selfishness. His wife decides to leave him as he shows no respect towards his daughters. The way he treats her even bothers me a lot. She has to take care of him: he leaves his clothes lying around, he wants some fruits... he considers her as his house maid and he even looks down on her arts.   

 

I am not saying all but majority of asian fathers are like that. My mother serves my father like a king since the norm is our father will bring food to the table and the moms take care of the household and the kids. I was actually thinking how come my mother endured living with him for almost 50 years now lol. Maybe because for asian women before, they don't have the means to raise the family if ever they will get separated and ofcourse part of it is my mom loved my father too. But it is something that i have changed when i got married. And the result is not good hahahaha

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5 minutes ago, richelle said:

 

I am not saying all but majority of asian fathers are like that. My mother serves my father like a king since the norm is our father will bring food to the table and the moms take care of the household and the kids. I was actually thinking how come my mother endured living with him for almost 50 years now lol. Maybe because for asian women before, they don't have the means to raise the family if ever they will get separated and ofcourse part of it is my mom loved my father too. But it is something that i have changed when i got married. And the result is not good hahahaha

Well, even there has been women empowerment in Europe, this mentality hasn't changed entirely. For example, in Germany, maybe 15 years ago, you were called a "Rabenmutter" (uncaring mother), if you had been working, although you had children. That's how I was looked at, however I considered independence much more important than anything else. There was this belief that mothers would neglect their child, if they worked which has been proven wrong by many studies. Furthermore, I didn't want to waste my studies (10 years), just because I had children. In France, it was totally different (where I am coming from): here it was expected that mothers worked because one salary was not enough. That's why many mothers work in France. As time passed on, men were asked to take care of the children and the house chores as well because the wife had to work too. 

Right now, the situation has changed in Germany. Mothers start working back earlier, besides the state realizes the changes and started creating kindergartens for smaller children. I have to say that my sons and my husband are asked to help in the house: ironing, cooking, visiting the supermarket, taking care of the washing aso... so that the task sharing is more equal. Only that way gender equity can be achieved. 

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@bebebisous33i believe a lot of changes also have happened here in asia. Both husband and wife needs to work to make ends meet. Women are also more empowered now compared to before. Sometimes it is the husband who stays at home if wife's work is better. Being a single mother is not too bad anymore unlike before:)

 

We have an annoying dad here but it is not as bad as what i felt with SITR. It is actually hateful but i can still watch the episodes. Maybe because we have better side stories and characters. So it boils down to last 4 episodes. Oh i really wish the writer will make this drama my favorite of all time:wub:

 

@hushhh@INJINFANthis is my 4th PD ahn pan seok drama. I really like this director. Is grapevine good? It is in my list but have no time to watch it.

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23 minutes ago, richelle said:

 

@hushhh@INJINFANthis is my 4th PD ahn pan seok drama. I really like this director. Is grapevine good? It is in my list but have no time to watch it.

 

Grapevine is so so good.

It's requires attention.

There is a look at how wealth, power, and influence plays out in the domestic and business sphere.

It's 30 beautiful episodes or good writing, acting, and cinematography.

Unlike Spring a lot of filming is done in interiors.

The set is beautiful.

It a  very smart tragi-comedy.

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I am not still over the last scene of jiho and Jung in :lol:

Jung in visited Gs father in the desperation cause she knows that her father will not let this go. Eventhough she agrees that parents approval is necessary but what she wants comes first and I am glad she didn't revealed that she is seeing someone else I mean he is not even her family and she is not obliged to do so.I agree with the opinion that atleast giseok father loves his child though the way he is trying is soo wrong he is practically invading Jung in and jiho privacy.Being patient would have worked if giseok and ji father were not forcing her into this rel and gs father knows all this yet he is asking her to have patience.Whether her plan worked or not but atleast Giseok father said to ji father that we shouldn't force them as they will do the opposite.His smile in the end shows that he is basically happy with the current scenario he knows Jung in won't back down.He sended those pictures to giseok with the thought that this will be final nail in coffin but he doesn't know that giseok has completely gone berserk and I am.assuming gs is the one who sender those pics to ji father seriously:/.

 

Jung in I love you girl but please atleast you shouldn't have let him hug you .well she did tried to return the ring as expected he didn't take it and what she explained the reason of not returning the ring I understand it.But again you should have told jiho.Jiho knows that giseok bragging about the whole Jung in accepting the ring is just a lie(even giseok knows that) that's why I think he wasn't that mad at Jung in and went straight to giseok without informing Jung in cause he knows how that guy is tearing her apart.Jiho is so understanding even Jung in agrees that on the other hand giseok - "What you think doesn't matter I am choosing this for your sake"Ahhhh this man he has no brain or what soo tiring!

 

Love Love the confrontation scene between giseok and jiho

Giseok- You are one gutsy guy

Jiho-You are too much of coward ,YESS!

Giseok face when jiho said about Jung in accepting him more lol and when he said Jiho said -I will give up ON YOU lmao :D

 

I don't really like  jiho banker friend and Jung in library friend don't know sometimes their conv kinda irks me I would prefer jae -in and young jae giving advices to both of them over them.Right now both jae-in and young jae moments is giving me some laughter elements they are cute together:D

 

Jiho mother even though she initially objected but her son happiness matters more lol jiho father making excuses when he said isn't she pretty :D

 

Cute moment when jiho said we should break up if my parents don't approve you followed by Jung in -Yahhhhh:DI want you badly - Jung in :ph34r:lol 

 

 

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1 hour ago, richelle said:

@bebebisous33i believe a lot of changes also have happened here in asia. Both husband and wife needs to work to make ends meet. Women are also more empowered now compared to before. Sometimes it is the husband who stays at home if wife's work is better. Being a single mother is not too bad anymore unlike before:)

 

We have an annoying dad here but it is not as bad as what i felt with SITR. It is actually hateful but i can still watch the episodes. Maybe because we have better side stories and characters. So it boils down to last 4 episodes. Oh i really wish the writer will make this drama my favorite of all time:wub:

 

@hushhh@INJINFANthis is my 4th PD ahn pan seok drama. I really like this director. Is grapevine good? It is in my list but have no time to watch it.

LTH is more than just an annoying dad. He is so stupid too. The best example is that he thinks, his job as director in the foundation can only be secured, if JI marries GS. However, he has forgotten that when chairman Kwon proposed it, he wasn't even inclined to have JI marrying GS. JI even heard about it before she visited the chairman for the first time. Hence she complimented him for being able to separate private from professional matters. LTH is not even able to make the difference and has forgotten the circumstances how he received the offer.

 

Striking is that although the chairman Kwon knows that JI is seeing someone else, he still doesn't perceive her as a bad person. After seeing the pictures, he could have asked his son to stop all of this, he didn't. He even told JI that feelings might change. From my point of view, the father has misjudged his son's behavior. He still thinks that GS loves JI. First, GS claimed that he wanted to marry for love in front of his dad. Secondly in his eyes, GS's behavior after the break up proved it. He visited his friends from the music band, he drank a lot and went to LSI's sister... The father interpreted all of his actions as someone who couldn't overcome the separation. What he doesn't know is that when GS proposed to JI, he did it for different kind of reasons except for love:

- live more comfortably

- the time spent together

- in order to save her life, so that she makes the right decision

In other words, GS's father can not understand the real situation. He doesn't know that GS wants JI because a man like JH, a single father, could make a woman fall in love with him. His pride has been hurt. If the dad knew that his son had proposed to JI for business reasons, not because he loves her, then he would have stopped him or even asked him why he does the opposite of what he is saying.

Strangely, I have a much better opinion of GS's father than of LTH. He is far more honest. But there is also another reason why the chairman Kwon is misjudging the whole situation, JI has always been willing to assume the responsibility for their failure, she never blamed GS. Even in her conversation with GS's father, she avoids that topic out of respect for her ex-boyfriend. If she had said the same thing to his father, GS had always looked down on her and she had accepted it for too long, then the father might have realized more about his son's biggest flaw. JI has never explained to him how GS used to treat her. The chairman Kwon is well aware of JI's personality, hence he could have realized that she had stopped loving his son for a long time. Striking is that LTH has heard the entire story but he dismissed it. He doesn't care about it at all. What matters is the result: a marriage would help him to boost his social status. 

 

JI and JH have been too considerate of GS for a long time. I hope, once JI realizes what GS did behind her back (revealing JH as a single father, ruining JH and JI's reputation), she decides to finally treat GS as an enemy and stop calling "oppa", a title which GS really doesn't deserve.

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I was in rage when I saw Jung in dad spitting nonsense asking her daughter to compromise in the worst situation as what eomma said -You should be ashamed that you are a shallow father.one can really the pain of their mother and when he further told that Jung in should be married too  the disbelief on mom face she was so frustrated at that moment it was definitely nerve wrecking - Do you even have a heart :tears:.How is he gonna redempt but he will be definitely shocked if Mom finally divorces him she is already thinking though but may be that will make him realise - as in preview he did agree to meet jiho but I guess before that pics were sended to him,tbh  mom doesn't look that shocked cause Jung in did hinted her beforehand and now that seo-in is gonna take the same road so she will understand hopefully

 

lmao jae-in whom should I choose if you get divorced to appa :D

 

Jung in teasing jiho about wanting to sleep there -i bet you will faint if I really sleep here :D this girl and when she entered the pincode when jiho said he is taking showers 

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Jungin - Will you keep talking without no clothes? 

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We all know how it ended :glasses::lol:

Seo-in deserve all the happiness I really hope she will be able to get out of that monster hand but it's a relief she is more determined now.

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2 hours ago, Pmyonly said:

I don't really like  jiho banker friend and Jung in library friend don't know sometimes their conv kinda irks me I would prefer jae -in and young jae giving advices to both of them over them.Right now both jae-in and young jae moments is giving me some laughter elements they are cute together:D

 

 

 

 

@Pmyonly  on the contrary i love both of them. The way they treated their friends is what a best friend does. They talk with no filter and to the point sometime it seem cruel but what they said is true but they really concern about their friends. Young jae is too polite for me.:sweatingbullets:

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In my opinion, GS has never invited JI to his flat. When he met her in the past, he kept asking her to eat dinner at a restaurant. He always chose a chick and expensive restaurant, as if he wanted to impress her with his wealth. Secondly, when he tried to rekindle with her physically, he asked her twice if he could go to her flat. She refused twice... the first time she lied to him as she didn't want to be with him. The second time, she rejected him as she realized his intention. He was treating her like a sexual object. He only wanted to go to her place for sex. As conclusion, if they had sex, it would be at her place and not his.

 

I mean, he could have brought her to his apartment in order to impress her as well but it looks like he never did. And this is really important because it shows that in fact GS kept his distance from JI physically and emotionally. He preferred spending his time at his flat for work than bringing his girlfriend there. Remember in the conversation from the episode 1, he told her that he would only eat with her as he had to leave her  in order to work at home. He had a closer connection to work in his flat than with JI. Now, if we take a closer look, it also illustrates his lack of love for JI. He was behaving like a king who would pay a visit to his "wife"/"concubine", when he feels like it. He would visit her chamber... a very patriarchal and misogynistic perception in my opinion. She was not "good" enough in order to be really close and intimate with her. 

 

And now, notice the contrast with JH. The latter gives her the code so that she can enter his flat. He is not even there, when she enters his flat for the first time. This underlines how much he trusts her and he wants to be intimate with her. It was as if he was showing everything to JI, as if he had no secret. GS was the exact opposite. He kept his distance as he didn't want to reveal his insecurities. However, JI knew that GS had not a good relationship with his dad and knew that his father was looking down on her without ever meeting him once. But in my opinion, GS was the reason why JI felt mistreated and looked down, as he was the one who kept his distance from her, the one who never shared his inner feelings and thoughts. He was always hiding behind his wealth and social status which created a wall between him and JI. JI has not realized yet that GS is much more to blame than she thinks, he is. Deep down, she thinks, his father played a role, while in reality, GS's insecurities and superficiality were the reasons. The chairman Kwon is not responsible for his son's actions, hiding his feelings aso. GS was the one who created the wall between them.   

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1 hour ago, polar15 said:

@Pmyonly  on the contrary i love both of them. The way they treated their friends is what a best friend does. They talk with no filter and to the point sometime it seem cruel but what they said is true but they really concern about their friends. Young jae is too polite for me.:sweatingbullets:

It's totally okay to talk without filter but the situation that jiho and Jung in are their conv with friends  are really not helping either of them.Just for example like yesterday jiho friend- Did she already dumped you? I mean that's the only question he got.And Jung in friend she kind of judge her atleast she did in initial episodes and sometimes what she says seems confusing to me,like jae-in is straight forward too but she actually helps Jung in solving issues rather than making judgements.About youngjae I really liked the way he made Jung in understand the situation yesterday.

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993A04495D14EDD924

Love :heart:

I am guessing this scene will be after Jung in confrontation with giseok cause her eyes looks swollen from crying :tears:

Cr (leafthemoon-twitter)

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This is a really hard show to watch and not because it's bad. It isn't at all. There's a lot of depth here. The dialogue's very good and the actors are convincing... But my word, it's downright depressing. I feel more depressed watching this than Nokdu Flower to be honest and that's a show about bloody war and divided families. ;)  But good grief... the level of self-deception and evasion in general in this show is mind-numbing. Still, I imagine an argument can be made that Spring Night is on some level also about war and divided families too. :P 

 

A whole heap of jumbled thoughts...

It's true I think that if one pursues personal happiness in part or in whole, that someone else will be negatively impacted by it. It's not even necessarily that the person doesn't want you to be happy but they believe that you can be happier in some other fashion depending on their value system. From their perspective a different course of action is "better" because of the perceived beneficial outcomes. For every decision to be made, there are a whole range of competing concerns. But what I do object to is a kind of blindness to your own "agenda". People are naturally self-centred (even when they're being generous) and it's so easy to think that one is choosing the best course of action objectively when one's judgment is clouded by other considerations. Parents may or may not always know best but they certainly almost always believe they act in the interest of their children. And in an honour and shame society where "face" is all-important, individual choices are of low value importance unless they intersect with the demands and needs of the larger community. Achievement oriented honour and shame societies IMO place grave consequences on failure as a result.

 

I personally value individual liberty because individuals should take responsibility for their own choices and actions . It is foundational to the Judeo-Christian tradition. True diversity of thought is a crucial part of a society where people purport to be equal. But there's no denying that we are born into families and communities in whatever form and we are shaped by those larger forces as much as we believe we are capable of expressing individual impulses. 

 

 Marrying for love en masse is a recent phenomenon. Like everything else that's important, that has its pros and cons. Marriage for establishing connections, building one's reputation, wealth and fulfilling familial obligations is scarcely new and certainly not considered abhorrent until recent times. Love/affection may or may not come out of that union. But there's no doubt that marriage as an institution has been used, abused and turned on its head long before high rates of divorce and the 21st century... and yet it continues. It is certainly acts as a barometer of how the society views itself.

 

I'm rambling on somewhat because I suppose that's the context in which Spring Night is located. I imagine that's why there's so much pretence/evasion among the players because people have all kinds of reasons for why they hold onto things which have little to do with the actual pursuit of personal happiness. In a society where failure is shameful, to walk away from a relationship no matter the personal dynamics surely denotes failure.  So people cling on because it is a fate worse than death. Self-deception ensues. People confuse self-interest with love.

 

"If we just try harder... we can make it work. If we try harder we will find a reason to stay together." I suppose I'm torn because I think there is a time and place for having those thoughts.  I certainly don't think we should make decisions entirely on emotions either. Relationships are too hard and too precious to be left to mere emotions. But a lack of it, isn't the answer either. 

 

I suppose at this stage of my viewing (which is very slow) I mainly root for JH in so far that he and I share the belief that the truth is an important component in establishing and maintaining a relationship. I feel that I'm witnessing a breakdown of an existing system of social control... not because there are a lot of unhappy people who are staying in dysfunctional relationships... but because the mechanisms in that system are not large enough to address the complexities in the relationship between the individual and their society in the 21st century. Only in a world where the individuals are free to choose and are held responsible for their choices can something like domestic violence be abhorrent. I just don't think a shame and honour culture would address DV in the same way.

 

 

 

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