angelbeast90 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 https://twitter.com/CJnDrama/status/1157836663130771456?s=20 https://twitter.com/CJnDrama/status/1157836619451289600?s=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40somethingahjumma Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 On 8/1/2019 at 7:45 PM, angelbeast90 said: So OYS is a superficial person whereas PMJ is not. OYS with all his intentions have deceived the general public already it seems. He speaks in ideals but not in what is practical and realistic. Looks like he knows what is best for the nation and in his opinion the nation knows not what it wants! So is he going to become a dictator!! Lets see what he does when he gets to become Acting President. I hope it does not take a revolution to get him off the power though! So in order to do that PMJ needs to take the power back in his hands! I wouldn't call OYS superficial or at least not in how I understand "superficial". I agree he has totalitarian instincts as many idealists do but he's certainly no fool. He's not wrong about the politicians. He's certainly not saying anything that most of us wouldn't. His problem though is that he believes that by overthrowing the system you can actually change things. I don't share his naivete. Maybe he's young... a millennial apparently... so he's not aware... rather surprisingly perhaps that the twentieth century is littered with examples of people who have overthrown systems to disastrous effect. I suppose it's the conceit and hubris of the young to think that everyone else got it wrong and they are the ones who will get it right. Of course not everyone takes it to the logical conclusion like the dictators of the twentieth century. It wasn't just Hitler by the way. Stalin was a lot worse... Mao Zedong etc. With all the weaknesses democracy presents, it is better than all the alternatives. A system that puts power in the hands of a few assumes that the few will do the right thing all of the time. And that certainly isn't the case. Frankly I find both PMJ and OYS to be equally rigid in some form or another. They're actually not that different in that regard. But I think the show attempts to say that PMJ's idealism is tampered and grounded by the fact that he is willing to work within the existing system. It does turn out to be an important difference in the long run. Plus as OYS shrewdly notes, PMJ has got Cha Young Jin which is very very important in mitigating PMJ's idealism as well. (So yes, that's another reason why I don't think CYJ is a co-conspirator) It's not that I dislike PMJ although I sometimes wish I liked him more. I often feel that he's overshadowed by the people around him who seem to be far more multidimensional and savvy. More importantly without CYJ it would be very hard for him to survive the acting presidency much less an election for the real thing. And that's fine. The person at the top doesn't have to be amazing as long as he/she has good advisors and is sufficiently savvy to pick the right people to be in his/her team. It's like the kings of old. No king was expected to rule on his own. It was their job to manage talent and use them appropriately to make good decisions. Some played off one side against the other sometimes to their detriment. Some relied too heavily on one person or another to their detriment. But these are the sorts of things good political leadership has to come to grips with in order to govern well for the good of all. Despite my misgivings about PMJ, I do think he is being seen as the anomalous variable here. The wild card/dark horse that will shake things up. Not because he is especially amazing but because he's unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelbeast90 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 https://twitter.com/CJnDrama/status/1157819121154678786?s=20 https://twitter.com/CJnDrama/status/1157533498787287043?s=20 ------------------------ Sorry I could not keep this funny nonsense pun just to myself Designated survivor/driver rather being asked to drive blindly should decide where to drive!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebebisous33 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 @40somethingahjumma @angelbeast90 In my opinion, the huge difference between PMJ and OYS is that PMJ is open-minded as he is able to listen. The best example is his interactions with Yun. He knows that she is not his friend, nonetheless he listens to her words because he can perceive that not everything she says is bad. He never has the answer right away, he doesn't condemn immediately, whereas to me OYS seems to be very judgmental. He puts all the politicians in the same basket. However, Yun is different from KSK who is definitely more ruthless without any moral. Furthermore, I doubt that, if OYS had been the Acting president, OYS would have promoted CYJ after the latter disobeyed his order by releasing the video. Even CYJ thought that his action could only end with a withdrawal or being fired. For someone from the military, disobedience is absolute no go! Yet, PMJ could understand CYJ's action and even realized CYJ's loyalty in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenappelle Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 @bebebisous33 For me, politics are a mixed bag. I think irl, even upright politicians has to choose between lesser evils at times. Currently my suspicions on Han are purely based on his actions in EP10 (Call Center panic call, Han's cryptic remarks etc), and the fact that there is not many as powerful as him in an Administrative role. Also I think the fact that PMJ suspects him gave credence that Han is part of the attack. PMJ's intelligence is constantly being underrated criminally in the drama and even by the audience. I feel that you made a compelling point about him listening to Yun and subconsciously learning from his rivals, and his aides (CYJ etc) that disobeys him (I do wonder how PMJ tell CYJ though). And may I say that OYS comes off as way too arrogant? Without the backing of the Tailor Group and his image he will be shredded by his rivals. I do agree that the Tailor Group seems to be against unified Korea, with the military gang perhaps wanted a better treatment of them enshrined by legislation. We still have 6 episodes to wrap it up. From what I can see from Netflix title, EP12 will probably solve most of the mysteries, and then its Blue House vs the Tailor Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebebisous33 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, jenappelle said: @bebebisous33 For me, politics are a mixed bag. I think irl, even upright politicians has to choose between lesser evils at times. Currently my suspicions on Han are purely based on his actions in EP10 (Call Center panic call, Han's cryptic remarks etc), and the fact that there is not many as powerful as him in an Administrative role. Also I think the fact that PMJ suspects him gave credence that Han is part of the attack. PMJ's intelligence is constantly being underrated criminally in the drama and even by the audience. I feel that you made a compelling point about him listening to Yun and subconsciously learning from his rivals, and his aides (CYJ etc) that disobeys him (I do wonder how PMJ tell CYJ though). And may I say that OYS comes off as way too arrogant? Without the backing of the Tailor Group and his image he will be shredded by his rivals. I do agree that the Tailor Group seems to be against unified Korea, with the military gang perhaps wanted a better treatment of them enshrined by legislation. We still have 6 episodes to wrap it up. From what I can see from Netflix title, EP12 will probably solve most of the mysteries, and then its Blue House vs the Tailor Group. You're right. OYS is indeed arrogant. PMJ is not just a good listener, he is always a great thinker. He doesn't believe blindly what others say. He wants to check the facts himself. Notice how he calculated that the numbers mentioned by the USA delegations were wrong. He even read the constitution himself in order to better understand the executive order. He came up with a new solution: an executive order respecting the rules. He thinks himself. His lack of refinement and of ambition let people believe that he was not intelligent: just book-smart but they were wrong. Besides, I also think that the conspirators were not pleased with the way the USA treated their country South Korea. They didn't just agree with the Treaty with North Korea, they also didn't like how arrogant the USA delegation was and tried to force the government to accept the new FET. Don't forget that a strong nation and pride are in the center of their belief. Yang was about to accept the FET with the USA. Furthermore, Han disliked DEFCON2 because it meant that SK would be under the control of the Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrockmom Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Lurker here....just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed everyone's commentary and insight. It's been a while since I enjoyed a Kdrama like 60 Days... I was left a little confused by Episode 9, and the 'scandal' regarding President Park's (adopted) son Si Won. (Full disclosure--I had a bad week including the death of a foster kitten. I am not functioning well.) So the biodad of Si Won is blackmailing the First Lady for money, and threatened to go to the press with the 'scandal'. We know the biodad is a scumbag. What is preventing him from doing this again? Did he get paid off, or threatened by Jun-O? Is there any evidence the biodad is in cahoots with any of the baddies? And Si Won has figured out that PMJ is not his father. But there was no follow-thru. Or will that be for another episode? Si Won doesn't seem like a bad kid--he looks and acts like a textbook normal male teenager. In a way, I feel bad that his parents lied to him about who his dad was, although I can certainly understand why they did it. Any insights would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelbeast90 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 @shamrockmom The short answer: Siwan's biodad has not made an appearance in the drama so we do not know what his intentions are going to be next. Siwan had breakfast with his dad and he affirmed that PMJ is his dad no matter what anyone says. And that's enough for him. credit After this scene PMJ choked up with emotion and pride in his sons trust with him. It took him so long to be here and he is not going to loose him for any political reason. Hope that was enough. Spoiler The American version had the first son going through with the DNA test but later he decided that he will not check on it and gave the envelope to dad who opened it and found that he is the bio dad. ************ AH! It's Monday! I'm waiting to see how Agent HNG going to get out of all this trouble trying to save her country from this threat to her country's security! PS: Off topic: Spoiler Sorry for asking this but can this man really paint in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrllee Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 23 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said: Despite my misgivings about PMJ, I do think he is being seen as the anomalous variable here. The wild card/dark horse that will shake things up. Not because he is especially amazing but because he's unpredictable. This. He was a loose cannon. He doesn’t play by the political rules. So that made him “dangerous” to the Tailor Group because he wields such power and they couldn’t “control” him due to his unpredictability. They tried to “manage” him in the interim but he was getting too close to uncovering their plot so they had to “get rid of him” (assassination). They would have to also do the same for SJ and Agent HNG to shut down that investigation. I think Advisor Han knows that he has lost PMJ’s trust, he was relying heavily on the trust of all the people beside him for intel. There’s a reason why one by one they seem to be coming to him for “advice” when they are in a bind. Cha, SJ, etc...they all seem to wander into his office digs to nut things out. Which wouldn’t be a problem as such except he seems so weirdly distant and disengaged when they actually genuinely want his advice? He seems to just shrug his shoulders and offer nothing particularly helpful or insightful. It only makes me suspect him even more. PMJ is a Scientist. We’re all about facts and data. Hunches and feelings don’t come into it. You can have a hypothesis but unless it’s backed by evidence, it remains just that, a hypothesis. It’s Monday. With the number of views on the Preview I am hoping it translates to a ratings boost. I am really enjoying this drama. I am currently also watching Where In the World (variety) with JJH in it. Turns out he is exactly like PMJ in real life. It’s so strange watching him lead a bunch of men through the Desert of Oman and playing it out in real life. No wonder PMJ’s character resonated with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebebisous33 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 @nrllee It is interesting that the conspirators chose a tailor as a symbol. Everything is measured and planned like a cloth created by the tailor. They have to wear the clothes made by the tailor illustrating their will to conform to the group's expectations and belief. It's like wearing an uniform but their uniform is a suit making it impossible to see that they are an organization, unlike under dictatorship where people like wearing uniforms in order to show their membership, where it is visible. The reason why PMJ is dangerous to the Tailor Group is quite simple: they had planned to use him (remember OYS's words) but in reality, he was never part of their conspiracy. He never visited the tailor hence he never got to wear the suit prepared by the tailor. This illustrates that their plan was built around someone that was not formated by the Tailor Group. They just thought, he would act like a puppet as they considered him as one, since he was called a Cinderella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelbeast90 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 https://twitter.com/CJnDrama/status/1158297681178972160?s=20 https://twitter.com/CJnDrama/status/1158297563667189761?s=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelbeast90 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Somehow I watched live even with serious buffering and missed some of it. I'll have to watch again. I watch without subs and then with subs. I think @triplem will be happy tonight with the screen time of actor LJH --------------------- https://www.instagram.com/p/B0vZZEpFF4_/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0ly40 Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 preview ep12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disembody Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 ok so i'm about to watch ep 11. 8 minutes in it's already crazy. this week is gonna be a ride! 6 hours ago, triplem said: JJH heard you guys complaining about his dodgy filters..so he made them black and white I like that they seem to enjoy each other. too cute!!!! like @nrllee said, he was a design major and a photographer. can't believe this!!!! hahahha I second the PMJ as not being special per se but unpredictable. I think that unpredictability is a reflection of new progressive leaders today who happen to be everyday people. They are met with friction constantly, but PMJ and his wife are truly about the people. It's interesting to see what types of people they are since they have both, essentially, devoted their life to serving the public one way or another. There's stability even within the instability of imperialism. PMJ looks at life as a scientist and within that it's like what affects people on earth. It's so interesting to see him and the people around him. He's a threat because he's not bloodthirsty but instead wants to do what leaders are supposed to--equalize and help. This is precisely WHY so many progressive leaders are ousted or killed. Also, one of the biggest Korean revolutionaries, Kim Gu, dedicated his life to reunification. There are rumors around that assasination and just what he did with the US Counter Intelligence but one thing is for certain: that was not a popular opinion. Elimination of a person as a voice means others can take over. RIP President Yang! EDIT: I'm halfway through ep 11. As much as I know about history and political/social justice theory I am very bad with things like dealing with the market, stocks, taxes etc. Can someone explain to me/make a case for/against what OYS proposed? What would be the conservative take and what would be the more progressive one? All I heard was the snoopy sounds lmao I do not understand financing at all Edit #2: I thiiiiink I understand.....favoring the market and corporations by buying up stock. A loss for the national economy and that affects the people. The competitive markets generate capital so it is a capitalist/imperialist scheme I guess I just don't understand the ins/outs of what these markets mean. The term "free market" etc has me wanting to pass out o-<-< lmao i wish i was mmore politically intelligent edit #3: waiting until tomorrow.... god darnit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrllee Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 9 hours ago, triplem said: So I think by now , we’ve all come to a conclusion that all those involved directly & indirectly with the bombing do not know who the others are & their connection to the mastermind VIP is through the tailor . And I don’t think any of the stakeholders have actually met the VIP Yeah...could be some faceless guy after all. Spoiler They introduced some old dude last night... looks like a conglomerate chaebol guy who has the means to bankroll operations BUT he is not the VIP. He was there to profit from the stock market crash (presumably after the bombing and also after the assassination attempt). And he had a son who was supposed to “take over” as group head?? I wasn’t sure if the subs were wrong here...head of what? The old Dude’s empire? Or VIP’s place? I still think VIP is Advisor Han. I am now not sure if the Head of Security Detail is good or bad. In this ep, he seems “good”. Still loving the tension between Cha and SJ. He grabbed her hand on the stage in the commotion and asked, “GwenChaNa?” Aww... Then her accusations which obviously got him so mad...”You of all people, should have known that I am on PMJ’s side and am doing all this for his benefit.” I feel like she will need to make a call soon as to whether to trust her gut instincts or not (that he is good). She can’t do this investigation on her own. She needs Cha’s intelligence and savvy and “power” to get anything done. Oh has a Dictatorial leadership style (and more Right wing). Crucial in crisis type situations. Steadied the sinking ship by showing decisiveness in the line of fire. No wonder the people warmed to him and his approval rating sky rocketed. Happy to let the markets free fall and do what it will with little/no government intervention. He seems to already be relishing his new position of power. Sitting on the Presidential armchair. Waltzing in and taking charge from the Press Secretary at the Press Conference. The Ring of Power has the ability to corrupt very quickly. Still, I liked that he showed displeasure at the attempted assassination of PMJ. PMJ had earnt his respect as a fellow “soldier” in the political battlefield. Oh didn’t like how he was knifed in the back. He wanted a “fair” fight. And for some reason I get the feeling he didn’t like how PMJ was taken out because it seemed to point at the VIP’s lack of confidence in his (Oh) ability to outshine him (PMJ) on the political stage. Oh was so confident that PMJ would fail and he would succeed that he saw the assassination attempt (behind his back) as an affront to his potential as a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liltash85 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Oh Yeon Seok is son of a richard simmons! Sorry I have to swear it but he is doing whatever he please as an acting president. Eliminating evidence and let the stock market plummeted so that one of his comrade's son can buy and control the economy. Sorry to those still thinks he is a double agent or what not, all I can see is a man greedy for power. i don't see any difference he made that benefited the citizens any better thatn the previous government which he said corrupted. My take, the VIP is the tailor himself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrllee Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 @liltash85 I am not entirely convinced OYS knows about the old dude (conglomerate). Everyone kinda works in the dark (in silo) and no-one really knows the full picture except for the VIP. That’s my take anyway. EDIT - I think Advisor Han wasn’t expecting OYS to take up the Acting President role whilst PMJ was out of action. Remember how he said Finance Minister was supposed to take over? And then his shock (displeasure??) when they find out that he was the other guy hit by the stray bullet? OYS taking up Acting President spot now was premature. It was never part of the original plan. I think that’s why I find he (Han) seems to be pensive in most scenes since he was asked back into the Blue House. He’s weighing the options and calculating his next move and making things up as he goes along because of PMJ’s unpredictability and also sudden turn of events which haven’t gone according to plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelbeast90 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Why do I feel like OYS is going to butt heads with the VIP mastermind. He did not like being told don't cross the line! He has ruffled everyone's feathers. His navy metaphor of being a ship captain seems to point at that. If he irritates the VIP will he come out of hiding. I'm not in anyway an OYS supporter though ( don't know why I have to say this though) I wanna write more but will do it later after collecting my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrllee Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 31 minutes ago, angelbeast90 said: Why do I feel like OYS is going to butt heads with the VIP mastermind. He did not like being told don't cross the line! I am with you. I feel like he’s just as unpredictable as PMJ is. And now that he’s got hold of the reins prematurely, he may yet change his tune about not wanting the power and having absolute control. He seems to really LIKE being in the power seat. The VIP may have created a Monster they no longer have control over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenappelle Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 @disembody I knew a bit on insider trading and market etc - basically, if you are a leader, from any point of view(liberal/conservative) there is no way you could NOT NOT close the market. Kang is economically conservative while Yun is liberal on that score -- thousands of traders and banks will be cursing at you, not counting ordinary ppl that trade. There are circumstances where traders are compelled to trade (think of foreign currencies) due to govt limit them to hold a certain no of forex (they hold too much forex and must get rid of them by end of day) so they will be making a huge losses. He is doing this purely for the financial backer in the Tailor group to profit from it. Oh looks popular on the front but ppl who knew even a tiny bit about politics and/ot economics will call it a career suicide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.